Mr X

Hahahaha ok due to work commitments...I will be away for a month or two..and will probably return under a different name.(thats if I'm not put on the kill filter lol)..but anyways, this will explain my non replys to your post. So, thank you GF members and mods for your insight..it's nice to see different angles on things..quite interesting. From the thread splitter ...bye for now Yo peace out!! walks away gangsta lean

Yes AIG,but that does not let you off the hook hahahahaha The old covenant that was for the Jews was conditional on them upholding God statutes...but the Jews rebelled and God dissolved it with the new covenant...e.g where are the levites(the priest hood) that were in charge of the burnt offerings etc? where is the Temple of Soloman?..its a long story...but The jews of today i.e Israel...cannot be all from the tribe of Judah or the House of David...where is ephaim...benjamin...levi....naphtali the other tribes etc etc etc. Thats where the messiah comes in...notice AIG...it's called "the new testament" Yes jesus is also known as "the son of man" because now he is in the flesh...in the line of "the house of David"..I'm referring to prophecy. Anyway the Jews are a stiffnecked people(Gods words not mine)..they are really Gods problem...they are better understood if you read the old testament..I'd rather leave them alone. You know people that say"The Jews Killed Jesus" hahaha a big duh on their part..they were suppose to..what do think prophecy is about? If they did'nt kill Jesus(in flesh not spirit)..God would have been a liar. If you don't understand what I've just typed..I might as well talk to the trees(fascinating really)...read the bible AIG with an open mind... I'll get to mohammed some other time.

Yeah I thought my post would bring out the trinitarians...so ok(excuse me AIG ,take a break) Daniel 7:13-14(NIV) "In my vision at night I looked,and there before me was like the son of man,coming with the clouds of heaven.He approached the ancient of days and was led in to his presence.He was given authority,glory and sovereign power; all peoples,nations and men of every language worshipped him His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away,and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Question:Who is the"ancient of days"?...It sez also "...and was led to his presence"..um who's presence?(emphasis on "his") Ancient of days ="...led into his presence" this means the"ancient of days is a "he"="his" thats two different people present....how can I approach myself or be led to myself?(thats if you believe Jesus is God) "He was given authority,glory and sovereign power...." question:Who gave him[Jesus] authority? who is the giver? 2 Corinthians5:21(NIV) God made him who had no sin to be a sin for us,so that in him we might become the righteousness of God It sez "GOD MADE HIM.."...not God made himself.. Collossians 2:9 (NIV) For in christ all the fullness of the deity lives in bodily form christ means anointed...who anointed him?...man or angel or God...or himself? Jesus the anointed one was given wisdom and power of God..evident in the miracles and raising of lazarus but used it sparingly and relied on reasoning with the Jewish scholars. I won't quote the other as it's basically saying "given authority etc" Yes please quote some more WBM Btw WBM If Jesus is God..then why did he bow down on his knees to pray to God in heaven(mt of olives)..if he is God himself? God on bended knee? What is with the chit chat between God and son if they are both the same person? don't you find that a little crazy?

nuff said amen to that

hahahaha builder, that really helps...that was more like fiddy cents worth.

This is why I put this in(see above quote)...as I don't know about MRIH and others understanding of the bible....the above is how I understand it...I was warning you that this is my belief and interpretation...and that you were wasting your time with arguing with me about the trinity.BECAUSE I"M NOT OF THE TRINITARIAN BELIEF e.g Jesus is God(which is wrong) If Jesus is the messiah..he would have existed before time as an angel..who else could he have been in Gods unseen kingdom...the bible says he was the Son of God...which makes sense..as God is quoted as saying"This is my only begotten Son...of whom I'm am well pleased" Jesus is an Angel made in the flesh...a messenger of God Jehovah He was "the word of God" meaning God spoke through him The telepathy part of the quote..was an explanation of this. Ok AIG,I'll put it to you this way....If I could send my thoughts to you(telepathically) and you speak my very words...does that make you me? No it does not!!!..thats why jesus was trying to teach these idiots(Jews and later some christians) it in parables...because it was like trying to teach a bunch of neanderthals advanced spiritual concepts(which is really simple). That is why Jesus is Known as "the word of God"(logos) Gods mouth piece. The messiah can not teach anything unless it came from God...that would mean the messiah would have to be one with God(linked telepathically spiritually) e.g speak the mind of God...this does not mean he(Jesus) is God, but a messenger or spokesmen...where does the message come from?...it would have to be taught and transmitted to Jesus(he often communicates with the father)..just like the prophets. Their are passages in the new testament that some Jews mistakenly thought Jesus as a prophet...like saying he was prophet elijah returned(Technically he can be construed as one)..but he was foretold messiah...the jews of the time were of the old testament and under Roman occupation so they thought that the messiah(jesus) was coming to free them..if they read the old testament concerning the messiah properly..that was not the messiahs mission. In the old testament God says that the messiah will come out of the line of David.Thats why there is a geneology in the new testament to prove that indeed that mary and joseph were from the tribe of Judah(Davids tribe). Um... hope that helps

AIG, if Jesus is not the Son of God you can just forget passages in the old testament...and the whole of the new testament that relate to him(Jesus)...because that is what Mohammeds teachings about. Let me explain it this way..God/Jehovah sends an Angel(Jesus),but this Angel has to be made in to flesh and not only that..he has be born in the house of David...that means He has to be born to a women related to the house of David(I'm referring to prophesy concerning the Messiah)...Gabriel warns mary and joseph about her new born baby.He has to be raised in the teachings of the Torah and explain and show the jewish people that a new covenant is replacing the old...he(jesus) is given the wisdom and power of God ...anyway God foresee's the hostile reaction of the Jewish sanhedrin and writes in the old testament what is to become of Jesus...as jesus is to be become the sacrificial lamb...and intermediary with God...Jesus is Gods most trusted Son...as in heaven he sits at the right side.When Jesus dies on the cross as prophesied and his spirit departs to heaven...he still visits his apostles..as they now lack faith after his death...and need reassurance that Jesus is live and with them in spirit. As for christian sects in saudi...I was trying to tell you that mohammed had contact with christians and plagarised from the bible.He would have to have knowledge prior to meeting supposed Gabriel.Did Mohammed know who Gabriel was? AIG..If you stop reading the Qur'an as a commentary on the bible...old/new testament...you would understand the point I am making.But that depends if you understand spiritual concepts and biblical history.

Oh..ok AIG I'll come to you from a different angle. Mohammed, would have had some knowledge on the bible prior to his supposed encounter with Gabriel.How would have he known what was good or evil?...angel versus devil. about who God was..or who Gabriel was. The point I was making(sorry if I explained poorly) was that there were christian sects around saudi...mohammed even though illiterate could have been taught "verbally" some passages of the bible.The bible clearly warns of false prophets and angels of light..who are really angels of darkness...in other words ,e.g satan appearing in the form of gabriel trying to decieve you. There is one way to check if Gabriel was really Gabriel...is asking the question "Is Jesus the messiah..the Son of God?" Satan would have to have said "NO"...The real Gabriel would have answered "YES" Mohammed did not ask this question.Therefore he does not know who he really is talking to. on a different subject And yes AIG the bible is not perfect...for whatever reason whether it be translation or corruption of conotation and original implied meaning etc...that is not the fault of the innocent folk who had nothing to do with it..but the main theme is still present.Jesus is the messiah and the Son of God..and the intermediary between us and God..etc etc etc.And anyway what does one gain by rescripting the bible? btw there are folk who believe it this way...like me God=Father/Jehovah The Holy Ghost is the extension of his power Jesus=Son of God/Angel/Messiah/the word of God Gabriel=Son of God/Angel Lucifer/Satan=Son of God/Angel/Devil Jesus is not God...but the Son of God(angel)....they are two different distinct individuals.Yes I dissagree with other christian sects that say Jesus is God...that does not make sense..as Jesus would not have prayed on his knees if he was God...and conversed with himself...really ridiculous..they kind of make him a schizophrenic with an identity crisis.They don't understand that Jesus was teaching them the concept of telepathy(I don't know a better word than that). I'll end it for now

Books you mean builder? I tend to use the local library ,if I can't find it on the net free in .pdf form. Yeah you often wonder and worry about bush...yes he is consumer of intelligence and not a producer...which makes him easily susceptible to manipulation to his advisors hidden agenda..when they hand him "selective intelligence reports".They probably do the ol trick and give him the illusion that he's making the decisions...but in reality he's basing his decisions on what he intentionally given. I really did not find anything groundbreaking with leo strauss philosophy...that shit has been going on since time began..e.g shamans were notorius for this b.s As for the masses, I say "don't confuse patriotism with stupidity"

Thats why builder I worded my post"according to this test"...its rough, but does explain why I voted labour all these years.

interesting article builder.. have you read books/articles by Dilip Hiro? I read a book by him years ago(I think 18+ years ago) because I wanted to understand news events better.It basically taught me a lot about the complications in the middle east religion/politics/colonial influence etc...you can easily predict events once you know the background. btw these so called straussian theorists better include him in there "must have book reads" before they give bush anymore advice.

Yeah AIG,you would say that your're probably sunni hahahahaha Anyways..federalism is a pre-cursor to independence under these circumstances. The Americans would rather see the Iraq represented by all parties(to contain Irans interests)..but these sunni attacks are making it mighty hard.The sunni's will realise that they won't gain anything if the americans leave...the control and command structure they once had does not exist...their tanks/artillery/aircraft are in disrepair...thanks to looters and scrap metal merchants and black marketeers. Its doubtful that syria would pitch in to help..they have just pulled troops out of lebanon..a move that would not have happened under hafiz al assad. Jordan probably won't want to get in this mess as they don't have the money either..unless saudi arabia steps in. It's actually in the best interest of the iraqi shiahs, that the sunni's continue their attacks on the americans and hope it filters back on public opinion in the u.s to pull out as well. It will come down to bribing countries...from either saudi or Iran

Yes some folks at GF have stated theirs...but are they really sure? well, according to this test,I'm a social libertarian/authoritarian Just answers some questions at this site...come back and state what you are. (according to this test) http://www.politicalcompass.org/ sorry forgot to add this: Mr X=Economic left right -2.25 Social libertarian/Authoritarian 2.15

All mohammed had to do AIG was verify that he was indeed talking to Gabriel...like asking"Is jesus the messiah and the Son of God?" probably why satan chose this illiterate fool. btw Islam came bout 300 years after christ..there were christian sects around. This is evident in the so called hadiths...why do muslim woman wear hajaabs for instance?.Where in the qur'an does it say to wear them or the hadiths...it was a plagarism from the christians of the time. Aisha was taken as a wife three years after khadijah death...she was six at the time..he is said to have consumated with at the age of 9.If that is the case..why don't muslims like from uhlul sunnah and shiah follow this example?.They argue that it only applied to the prophet..as they find giving their own daughters at that very age disgusting.

Um..yeah if you think of it this way SD..these "historian" were social and political commentators of the time...subject to rumours and gossip and personal political biases and probably belonged to some opinionated clique of some form or other. e.g The Romans were notorious for this. Anyways SD...you wrote as if you whole heartedly approved of this sexual pursuation...and now you admit to having bi'sexual curiosities urself hahahahahaha Yes I do find you impartial. How very interesting.