RoyalOrleans

MERGED: Going Rogue and Off With Her Head based on the direction of the discussion. My apologies to the original posters.

Based on what, Snafu? Where's your proof? You're a smart guy... show me some proof.

Yes, this circular debate is tiring. I don't know how you vote, but I place my vote into the one that I believe will benefit America and Americans the most. Go ahead and vote for the team, vote for the stars, vote for the moderates, the quarter to half luke warm socialists, and I will vote for principles. McCain lost the election, because Americans closely associated the "R" with Bush. If Bush were a better, more popular president, he would have been out on the campaign trail with McCain. Bush may have endorsed him privately, but coming off the cusp of the worst eight years of deficit spending that I can recall, the average American was not going to vote Republican. I mean, how did that slack jawed socialist Jimmy Carter get elected? Off the cusps of the scandals of the centrist Nixon and Ford presidencies. Who pulled us out of Carter's nightmarish presidency? The far right leaning conservative Reagan. We need more Reagans and less McCains.

How hard is it for you to understand it? Huh? Really? To use your terminology, "no one is perfect", which is reason that I subscribe. I make no bones about the imperfections of every candidate ever put on a ballot. Human beings are fallible... I get that. I did my homework before I stepped into the voting booth. Neither candidate agreed with me and I have rarely, if ever, voted for the benefit of a "team" in a national election. I am thinking about "what is right for America?" not what is good for the Republican party. So I made a decision to vote against the two national party's frontrunners. Just because I don't like a politician or agree with a politician, doesn't mean that I am angry at them. Nor does it mean that I hate them. It just means that I don't agree with them. I simply don't like Palin or McCain based on varying degrees of their conservativeness. They were not good enough to receive my vote. End of story. I've written in my dad's name several times for local elections.

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Alright, the man spoke out of turn... so what? Does that mean he deserves to get pummeled, trounced, and dragged off? It's not enough to escort him off the premises? If that were Obama up there speaking to a bunch of neocons, a stray remark from the crowd would've been applauded. - - - - - Yet, I digress. The incident was probably staged to show how the Libertarians are part of the lunatic fringe and they shouldn't be listened to.

If these "good people" continue to be your Palins and your McCains, then there is no hope in cooperation from me. And "good people" don't get elected, because people like you choose to vote for the lesser evil.

This is what happens when you speak against the establishment... Heckler roughed up outside McCain rally I guess McCain-Palin supporters now operate like the brownshirts. So much for First Amendment rights at a Republican hijacked tea party event.

Do I need to break out my world's smallest violin picture again?

[attach=full]2668[/attach] ... playing the world's saddest song just for McCain and Palin. Ohhh.... no! It's perfectly fine for us to bash Obama and his administration, but when it comes to Republicans and particularly Palin and McCain it's "be fair" or "be decent". Grow some thicker skin and get used to certain people getting slammed.

I won't hold my breath. I don't believe that the current Republican lot, give or take 5-10 members, are entirely opposed to totalitarian mandate of health insurance. They just don't like the Democrat's version. The Republicans might nibble at some small details of the bill, but, I believe, that it will take resistance on the backs of millions of Americans to bring Obamacare to an end. We'll see how this thing plays out.

"Life, faculties, production– in other words, individuality, liberty, property– this is man. And in spite of the cunning of artful political leaders, these three gifts from God precede all human legislation, and are superior to it. Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place." - Frederic Bastiat

I prefer the term "demigod".

I don't pray much, but when I do it is for something big. If McCain loses the race, there is a God. If Palin wakes up with her mouth sewn shut, my other prayers will be answered.

I concur. Just because you lose one game, doesn't mean that the season is over. If the Republicans truly want to make a big push to regain the White House in 2012, they will have to cut their losses. Meaning, dropping and booting out those old RINOs masquerading as members of the "conservative" movement. Otherwise, we'll have another four years of the community organizer.

I hate abortion. I hate it with a vehement passion. I believe it to be a deplorable act and the parties involved will have to pay for it in this life or the next. That said, I am pro-choice. I am pro-choice because some of these fanatical anti-abortion groups urge, poke, prod the federal government to step in and do something about it (we might get that with Obamacare). The issue of abortion, like just about anything, should be left up to the State. My stance is from an anti-big government point of view outweighing and putting responsibility and judgment in the person. It is the woman and all involved that will have to pay the ultimate price in the end. Our final judge should be our reason not to do something horrendous. So, I say let them choose their fate. ---- The parents should know exactly what is going on in their teenage little girl's life outside the home; it is the parent's duty. Yet, I don't think most parents care... they rush their kids off to school ASAP and let the government babysit the kid. As long as the parent is not inconvenienced, it is perfectly fine for their children to run a muck. Thus... government education. The girl is a minor according to the law and the parents should have been notified from the get-go. There is NO margin of error or a "my bad" in this situation, it's a matter of life and death and the parent's of a minor being involved in a life altering procedure. Those involved on the government school's level ought to be dragged out in the street and shot... well tried and fired or something similar.

So you admit, that libertarians (whether you lump them in with the Republicans or the Independents) voted Obama is an outright opinion. That's all I wanted to hear. The way you have asserted yourself with this opinion is that it is infallibly true and can not be refuted. Yeah... I kind of did a hack job with my comparisons there. I started a thought, got distracted, forgot all about where I was in the reply and then submitted the post sans proofreading. I had a point, but it's gone the way of the DoDo and searching my thoughts... I can not recall it. I will reiterate my point when it comes back to me. Strike that from the record. Ohhhh.... I get it now! It's like hockey. Ok... ok... thanks. Well... then... don't worry about being flamed or not. You know this all boils down to you being less hostile and wanting to make changes within yourself. I never made such an agreement nor do I have a desire to. Just because you have decided to try and change doesn't mean that I have to, I'm obligated to be nicer, I have to be decent, etc... this is your little self-project. Not mine. If you don't like it, then leave or take the high road. If something that I say to you or another member doesn't sit right, then RO will make it all better. Yet, you can't expect me to take this trip with you. As I have no desire to compromise for this site or any other. If that gets me demoted... fine... if it ultimately gets me banned... fine! RO will carry on the way RO has always carried on (which is probably the reason I am still here and another reason why I was promoted.) And about the past, I said that I would leave the past in the past and not bring up our previous grievances. As long as you did the same. I haven't reopened old wounds from the past to throw in your face, nor do I have any intention of doing such as that. So far we have both held up our end of the contract. Want to do a poll on the subjectivity of flames? Huh? I'm not some knucklehead that smiles and nods pretending to understand. What don't you understand about "I understand" and "I don't agree.". You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere, TJ. Somewhere, somehow, some way... you have to tell yourself that neither party is worth wasting my vote. Yet, I can't tell you how to vote. I can only tell you that there doesn't have to be a two party system, but it is continuous acceptance of centrist beliefs that give us mediocre politicians. You know, most successful politicians are sociopaths. That means that anyone with any integrity at all has small chance of winning and no chance for re-election. It says a lot about someone who ran and did not get elected. All good. Why I Am Not A Conservative by FA Hayek To answer your question... people bicker among people with same general beliefs because they disagree on how they should be instituted. There are centrist Republicans who share a great many values with the Libertarians within the party, but ultimately the centrist wants to get re-elected. Not to say that the Libertarian wants to lose his seat, but he is less likely to compromise... his constituency respects that about him and doesn't want him to roll over. The so called liberals of America stick together on one mantra, "Obama is not Bush.". Whatever... I wipe my hands of this argument. It's tiring and circular. This thread is way out, far and beyond the intent of the original poster (I'm hugo doesn't mind, but I am trying to stick with the rules of this particular forum). Though the topics discussed are still that... topics, I have to weigh my heavy hand on this thread and discontinue it if we can't get back on track. So... Sarah Palin, huh?

It's not a loaded question if you can produce facts. Your assertion is that Libertarians elected Obama president. I asked you for some statistical data to back up your claim. You failed to provide proof of your point. Ohhh......... and I do remember other conservatives being on the 2008 ballot. Do you know how hard it is for a third party to get on a ballot in most states? Damn near impossible. The optimistic voter believe that every candidate on the ballot has equal chance to win. The pessimist knows better given how Obama's (no matter how dirty) political machine rolled all over McCain. So......... moving on. First off, I wasn't offended by your remark. I have a tendency for the dramatics and was trying to show you how a supposed flame can be subjective to the reader. Not everyone is offended by the same thing. Now... just because I say that I UNDERSTAND something does NOT mean that I agree with it! I totally UNDERSTAND what the progressives are doing to our country, but I don't agree with it! I UNDERSTAND that the progressives have the upper hand now and are capitalizing on it, but I don't agree with it. You say that splintering hurts the Republican's chance of winning. And I say that I don't agree that splintering is a terrible thing. Right now, the Democrats are winning because of their unity and that will be their downfall. For the simple reason, the American people will lump all democrats into the same bin and vote out the more moderate or conservative representatives. Happens all the time. In factions, there is hope that there are three conservatives on the ballot to take away from the Democrats one major candidate. I can't help it if America had it with the Republicans and all their spending in the post-9/11 U.S. I understand what you are saying here, and have understood it from jump.

Heh heh heh.... Oh... that chance meetings between girls that I was sleeping with at the time and the old man. My father is a "knock and enter" type of guy. He doesn't care if you're decent, sleeping, or whatever; he just knocks, enters, and speaks as he crosses the threshold. One incident that comes to mind, was on a rainy and overcast early April afternoon. I was in a program at school where those who had part time jobs (a bagger at Winn-Dixie) could leave an hour early and receive a credit for a "work ethics" type grade. On the afternoons that I didn't have to work, I had to stay at school and do homework or whatever until the final bell sound. That afternoon, before I left for work, I was approached by a girl that I was semi-dating at the time. She convinced me (I'm a cat-cat to soft eyes and velvet scrunchies) to give her three friends and her a ride to their jobs because their ride flaked. So we all piled into my 1981 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight. Luckily the routes to the other's jobs were easy, because the other two girls worked at the Mall and the other girl worked across the street at a video store (Ahhh... remember VHS?). Once her friends were dropped off, she crawled over the seat and began with the teasing and all. Being the horny teenager, she and I both went instantly went back to my house and phoned in sick. We went upstairs to my room and we made out for a while... taking turns undressing each other. Getting hot and heavy with little regard to what was going on around us. I just remember looking up to notice my old man was suddenly in the room. Shocked and embarrassed I looked up at my father and said, "Hey dad, this is Heather.".

I asked you to produce some evidence backing your claim that libertarian voters overwhelmingly swung left for Obama. You failed in doing so, but I'm not surprised. Typical. This leads me to the conclusion that your claim is fabricated. Probably generated by some talking head over at some mainstream media outlet to shift blame from the centrist Republicans and onto a supposed splinter group within the party. You mentioned Canada and I tuned out. Not because I can or can't refute your comparison, but because it has no bearing on how American politics run. At least, I will say this, there are viable parties splintered from each other. The smaller the faction, the better the people of a politician's constituency is represented. Not everything in your mind sounds good on paper, you know? Now I totally understand your little concept of splintering, I have said that I understand it, but what you fail to recognize is my assertion of understanding. Just because I don't agree 100% with you, doesn't give you a free pass to talk to me like a child. You are throwing flames now, TJ. Saying that you were trying to educate me is a blast against my intelligence. If you were offended by the remark that I made, I am offended by this remark that you made. It's all relative, subjective and equally impugnable. So just watch who you're trying to "educate", TJ. If you are out of ideas, then you should concentrate staying on topic concerning Sarah Palin.

The only great thing that happened in November of 2008, the first black president of the USA was elected. Sadly, it was the wrong black man.

This pretty much sums up my sentiments on the whole climate change and/or global warming debacle. In fact, I think it might solve every single environmental (real or invented) problem facing the world today. Private ownership empowers. Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. - Samuel Adams If history could teach us anything, it would be that private property is inextricably linked with civilization. - Ludwig von Mises

If McCain wants to save his chances or lose with a little dignity intact, I'd tell Sarah to stay home.

What about the phenomenon of the Reagan Democrats? Aren't they centrists who are Democrats in name, but crossover on election day? What about these guys? Republicans For Obama --------- Libertarians tend to be less willing to set aside their own personal convictions to vote for a lesser of two evils than the left, right, and center. In a race between evil and a greater evil, they are more likely to refuse to vote at all than to vote for an evil. Not voting based on principle is not a vote cast for or against either candidate, it is the simple fact that they are not willing to compromise. I challenge you to provide some statistical evidence verifying the claim that libertarians actually did the "not-very-libertarian thing" and voted overwhelmingly for Obama during the last election or swing left at the voting booth in general. Such claims are either based on statistical data or are complete fabrications. If based on statistical facts, then you should have no trouble producing them to back up your assertion. PS: Independents do not count. That is, unless, you can prove that these independents are in fact libertarians and voted for Obama. Ohh... and a vote for a Libertarian candidate is NOT a vote for Obama, either. As statistics prove that they did not vote for Obama or McCain, but an actual Libertarian. (By default and indirectly has no room in hardened fast data). PSS: Opinion polls do not count, either. Opinion polls (like a Rasmussen poll just before the election) ask voters if they consider themselves "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" and instantly brand you a "libertarian". That's not cold, hard evidence of libertarians casting a vote for Obama in the 2008 elections.

Being colorblind isn't a handicap. No... I concur... voting is not affiliated with a party or a culture. Other countries vote, however Americans don't vote in record numbers every election.