timesjoke

I saw this one and the first thought that came to mind was how the left is running away from Obama, even the previously hard core Obama supporter, Phreak, is now calling Obama a Republican. [attach=full]1594[/attach]

So a Progressive askes me a progressive slanted question involving their desire to make drugs legal as part of their belief structure but at the same time wants me to extract the progressive element out of the answer? I am thinking it is you who needs professional help if you can't see how my reply covered all areas of the question, not just the Progressive slant you asked it in.

But reality must one day be seen, unfortunately we cannot keep printing money off into infinity. The Government is causing our dollar to lose value on a incredible rate. As we earn it, it has less value then when we earned it, small steps definately but still true. Nobody wants to be the guy who tells people we have reached the end of the free ride, so year after year the powers that be pass the buck and decide someone else will have to deal with the mess.....not them. They say people never change until you force them to chage, so the only question seems to be what form that force will take.

No, historically each person supported the local school out of pocket, you see Phreak, this was before the all powerful Government was taking away so much money out of each person's earnings. We don't need to beg the Government to fund things if they don't take the money from us in the first place. You do know that is where tax money comes from....right? So? When you Progressives get power you are more corrupt than anyone else. You claim to want power to "help" the poor but everything you do screws the poor worse than ever before. The two big winners in the Obama mess are the insurance companies who get forced customers without a single gurantee to lower rates and the Unions who get lots of payoffs like part ownership in a car company they previously had no ownership of.....oh and special exemptions to very high new taxes on healthcare everyone else in America has to pay.... So if the only desire is to educate then why not educate at home, or maybe even small community schools run by parents instead of the Federal Government. Why are you so against individuals taking care of themselves? Why is the only Progressive idea one where a massive Federal Government runs your life for you? So because a tiny segment of people are not going to do a good job, the majority should be punished? Why not just take measures to deal with the tiny few who are bad? In all reality, kids of parents who are as bad as you claim will not learn anything in a public school either. Public schools are about "fast food" education, grind them out and give away diplomas that are not really worth the paper they are printed on. It is the hard work of parents connected to the progress of their child in the school that makes for success. But he point is made, you asked how people get educated, and I simply pointed out that education like anything else should be in the hads of those who want it, not mandated and controlled by an all powerful Government. I know you like to believe you are the center of the universe but I have not known you for 20 years. There is absolutely no difference between a Deist and an Atheist in how they act or how they attack religion so in this discussion the point is the same. You believe God went through all the trouble to make this Universe just to abandon it, interesting concept and based in the same need to do as you please without considering if there may be more to your actions than just the here and now. Selfishness is the root cause of both belief structures. I did? Once again you practice the standard Progressive tactic of not telling the truth, I never said religious schools are "it" or even the only option, I simply pointed it out that religious people built and maintained the first schools and even today there are religious schools up to the highest levels. You are the guy trying to say a big all powerful Government is the "only" path to education, all I am doing is proving that silly claim of yours wrong. The people do, let me ask you a question, how does the all powerful Government give money to schools if they don't first take that money from the community? Simply stop taking the money and let the individual take care of their own needs. Right now the Government wastes about as much money as they hand out because the monster big enough to collect and distribute these amounts of money also has a overhead to maintain. Unfortunately the Federal Government has a structure bigger than any company in the world but is run by department store level management, sometimes not even that much, Obama never managed anything in his life and is now managing the largest Government in the world. This is why it is impossible for the Government to manage anything well. Free markets are very specific. If the public wants it, they will provide it, if they don't want it, then the unwanted thing dies away. The best point ever made is each time the Government sticks it's nose into the free market, we lose jobs and costs skyrocket. Insults on a personal nature Phreak? I can't think for myself? It is the power to think for yourself that means you don't need Government to run your life for you Phreak. This is not the first time we have walked down this road Phreak, you continually ignore direct answers in favor of your Government master so why waste my time trying to give you a well thought out reply you will only ignore anyway? The way I feel is illisustrated very well in that interview, only through free markets have the poor gotten so much more than any other place in the world. The poorest places in the world with the lest prosperity to the poor are exactly the kinds of Governments you Progressives want us to become. Nothing in life is "free". If you give something to someone else they did not earn, that means you had to take it from someone else who did earn it. That system punishes success and causes more people to stop being successful. I will not feed into your sickness, everyone including IWS knows you do this, I will not waste my time searching all the many threads to find one we all already know exists. I tell you what, get IWS to post here that you never ignored his many examples as I claim and I will remove myself from this forum and never post here again, or better yet, tell me you will never post here again if I do link it and I will take the time to go find it, but otherwise, I have better things to do with hours of my time than for you to just say "so what" each time you are proven wrong. No, just more misdirection and dodging of the points by a Progressive. Every answer to a problem with you guys is more and bigger Government running our lives. The Unions had their time, but now they are just bullies and it is the members of the Unions that are the real problem. They burrow down into their Union like a tick and suck everything dry without any consideration to if they are killing the system they are a part of. Did you know the biggest employer of Union workers in the Federal Government? When we let the Government take over life itself that is our fault "through Government". Government is the tool ripping us apart, but it is us who are letting it happen. People like you become dependent on the Government to make your decisions for you, that is why you keep comming back to the education claim, you don't want to be bothered educating children so just let the Government do it for you....right? School budgets are public record in most States, go get your local school board budget numbers, and do the math yourself. Me and a few friends of mine do ours every year. Being as I already pointed out that these ideas were already working in the past the only correct way to offer your claim is it will "never happen again". I agree that it will most likely never go back to pure individual responsibility, but we also can't continue down the road we are on. We have no choice but to either go back to some ides that used to work fine or find new ways to deal with things than just throwning more tax money at problems we don't have and more regulations on things that are already stagnating society. Did they give tax cuts or did they continue cuts and maintain current tax liabilities as they were? Is their work done in just a few days or are there other days ahead to show what kinds of ideas and cost cutting they can offer Americans? Obama killed the most private sector jobs in the history of America and at the same time created the most Government sector jobs in American history, increased the debt at levels never even dreamed of and at the same time could not preserve his promise to keep unemployment at 8% or less if he was given the freedom to pass his bill without anyone even reading it, he told us to just trust him and his Democrats, they knew what they were doing and guess what Phreak, they lied. So if you let a worker or businessman keep more of the money "they earned" that is socialism in your book? For too long people have become addicted to the Government based on a time and prosperity where few were holding their hands out and many were working and could easily support those few as a tiny segment of their income. While still wrong it was sustainable at the time because we had way, way more paying into the system than were taking out of the system. This is no longer the case. Now much larger percentages on income are needed to support those with their hands out because they represent a much larger segement of society and other factors like inflation as well as Government regulation have added to the costs of supporting each person in need. Add to that the increases of regular Government operations and we are running out of control down a hill. Here in Florida almost everything has doubled in cost from the Government, today it costs twice as much to renue your drivers license as it did last year before September. “One of the consequences of such notions as "entitlements" is that people who have contributed nothing to society feel that society owes them something, apparently just for being nice enough to grace us with their presence.” ~ Thomas Sowell “The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." ~ Thomas Sowell

What higher paying Country would you be talking about joker? There are no Countries that could absorb large numbers of doctors. Young adults are already choosing the medical profession less and less and if the current trends by administrations like this one stick with sabotaging healtchare systems so they can later have an excuse to force a Govcernment takeover, well you can toss out the current definitions of doctors because everything will change. My point is simple, the average person today getting very expensive treatments is artifically maintained on the backs of other people. It is not natural and cannot be maintained in the long run. Walk? Please don't be silly. Maybe ride with someone else for awile or rent a car but walking is not a viable alternative to transportation. You missed this point as well, a very expensive care repair is not something people generally plan for. When a large repair needs to be done, people have to figure out how to come up with the money and the same is true for an unexpected medical problem. Well that is a big admission, let's see how you move foward from that concept..... I knew it could not last, there is always someone with a "but" to create excuses why "they" deserve handouts. This is what is wrong with America, too many people making excuses for why they can't take care of their own needs in life, let's look at the excuses you are about to offer and point out why all excuses are unimportant to the concept of responsibility.... How is your specific problems my responsibility to fix for you? Why should any other person be punished and have money taken from them by force to take care of you just because you are incapable of taking care of yourself? They can't? How do you suppose the human race made it this far? The modern expensive medical care is a very new concept to humanity and the majority of American settlement was done without any form of what you would call basic medical care. People took care of themselves and the few doctors we had got very little money in payment for the care they offered. Many times they might get a meal or a chicken or the people would bring him food they grew at a later date. Where did I ever say every family is functional? I don't care what kind of family you have, even the worse family should care enough to help feed you if you fall on hard times and your not just a lazy azz. Here is my own "but"...but, no matter how bad your family is, how is that an excuse for me to become financially responsible for you? How do you figure that it is the taxpayer's fault your family is messed up and would not take care of you? Sounds to me like you should be more motivated to go out and create your own world where you won't need your family or the Government to fix your life for you. Answer me one simple question....Who is responsible for you? Bellevue is not a atheist built and run hospital, I asked for a single example of Atheists comming together and building a hospital to respond to Phreak's attack on religious people taking care or educating people. If Atheists don't like christian run schools or hospitals, don't go to them and build your own just like the Christians have done. The idea Phreak wants to offer is that without Government, there would not be education or anything else. Atheists do have a god, and their god is big Government. My question concerning Atheists building a hospital had a second point in that you don't see Atheists grouping together to do anything selfless. At this point they claim most people in the world do not believe in any form of God so with these massive numbers where are their charity groups? Where are their good works and such around the world in comparison to the much lesser numbers of Christians for example? Soup kitchens, food banks, christian service centers in most communities, all run by religious groups. Atheists follow their beliefs of self, nothing is more important than what they see in the mirror and that is why you won't see them delivering meals to the home bound and sick, you won't see them working for free helping people on the street. Sure, they will toss a couple bucks at the existing groups, even to religious run groups, but they will never do the work face to face themselves. You won't see an Atheist dropping everything to travel to Haiti after their disaster, only religious people do that, or people like the army who get ordered to go, lol.

I said communities handled the educational requirements of their own children long before big Government got involved, that is the answer. What is wrong with people taking care of themselves? Why is people taking care of their own needs not a answer you can understand? No, the dodge is still the same, you have no reasonable answer, you know darn well giving out goodies to high paid and spoiled Union workers don't help a single poor person. That tax break is money stolen away from the program that could go to help people and yet you guys don't care as long as you are protecting your kind. They vote progressive so they need to be protected.....right? Was the point to be educated or fall into some kind of standard appearance of education to attend a Government run college? My sister's oldest daughter was home schooled and got accepted to a big name legal college in Chicago, her youngest is still being home schooled and has scored 60% above average on the standard tests they make her take every couple years. Yes, some of the schools might not like home schooled children, but most of the best schools will look at CPT results and the history of the child on the other State required tests done over the years to make their decision on acceptence. Right, so why do you attack religion so much? What politically correct phrase have you guys come up with to describe yourselves now? Where the heck do you come up with that kind of garbage Phreak? You asked how people get educated without big Government, my answer is the communities have always took care of that and it was religious groups who are the most responsible for educating people. You then cried about why an atheist would have to get an education in a church so I said the Atheists can build a school just like a Christian can. What is so hard about that to understand? All of them do, it is about how the free markets allow people to choose what they want and those things people want survive while the things people don't want should not survive. Donahue was a hell of a lot smarter than you and tried to play the Progressive game with Friedman but Donahue was crushed. There is no reasonable arguement for Government control over markets and the more the Government gets involved, the less freedoms we have as Americans. This was a thread about Obama not "getting it" and the points made in the videos are part of what you Progressives are incapable of understanding because you blind yourself from the things that would educate you, like these videos. Actually on this very forum you claimed the Republicans never offered a single new idea on healthcare, IWS posted about a dozen and each time he posted one, you ignored it and still claimed they never offered a single new idea. HJust like how we all posted links showing how the so called "death panels" were already approved before Obamacare, posted the actual statements from the guy in charge of that department and still you refused to admit it was true. Time and time again it is you who proves Progressives wear blinders. Again you say something that both has nothing to do with the subject being discussed but is also just flames. Just because a Christian has their child in a public school that does not mean they like it or would prefer it. The Government is already taking their money and not leaving them an option to get that money back to use it in their own way to educate their own child. I gurantee you that given the option to get back their tax money, they would choose a non-public school option. Here in Florida there has been huge attempts to try and get school vouchers to get the same funds sent to the public schools sent instead to private schools but the school Unions cry rivers and complain it will destroy the public school system (of course they are only interested in kleeping their very high paying Union jobs). Well the interesting thing is that it already did work in the real world, after governments took over standards and education percentages declined, in the "real world" of today, a teacher is one of the hardest people in the world to fire even for good cause, there are teachers getting their full pay and sitting in a room each day with nothing to do because the schools can't let them around childern but also can't fire them because of the power of their Unions. Today on average 1/4 of all school budgets go to the buracracy to run the schools and not to actually teach a single student. Never be implimented? Well maybe you need to look around, people are starting to get tired of this out of control spending by Progressives. Did you know there was a recent story from California where the Govenor wanted to gather unspent beautification funds from some cities and move that money to things like schools and these cities heard about the idea and hurried out to spend the money of beautification before the Govenor could gather it up? There is the real world for you, and the more these stories get out the more people are getting tired of the mess. We are not running out of money Phreak, the money is all gone and making painful cuts is now a certainty, where these cuts are made who knows, but the first place I would look is cutting all Government jobs in half and transition down to 1/4 over the next 10 years. Eliminate the IRS, eliminate most school boards and have one central State level school board. Eliminate 90% of supervisor jobs and have more "working managers". End almost all welfare, allow for only the most needy who have no living family to help them for consideration. Eliminate 90% of Government run agencies. Maintain most of the inspection teams but consilidate all the field workers under one agency instead of the hundreds of agencies and their sub groups each requiring seperate supervisors and buracracy that includes hundreds of Government buildings and the costs to maintain those buildings. These are just a few ideas but at the end of the day, big cuts are on the way, I gurantee it. Maybe not as big as I mention, not at first anyway, but once things like social security is out of funds, and other welfare programs keep expanding on current trends, the bottom must fall out one day, and when it does, the pain will be greater than if we took action now.

You are being a little slow there buddy, hugo and I already said that, you having issues with understanding? If hospitals and medical services had to rely on charging only what a single sick person could pay, that would force the system to change back in line with other goods and services. When I need a new transmission for my car I don't get that work paid for by other people, I figure out how to pay for that repair myself. Medical care should be treated the same way. Not sure if there is a question in that or just another pointless comment. Community chest? So who controls the chest and how do we get money into the chest? Who manages the bills and payments? Who sets the rules for how much someone can get paid for any service? Who figures out if the charges are real or scams? Do people only pay into the chest if they want to or does someone have to take money from people by force to put into the chest? Do you have any idea just how much money would have to be involved Phreak? If not the Government, who do "YOU" think should run it? Either way you still would have healthcare bills being paid by people not getting treatment, just another form of ponzi scheme. What about them? Are you saying someone who is poor should get everything in life for free? How about a free home? Shelter is a basic need right? Free food? Being as you can't buy groceries and stuff unless you get to the store I suppose you Progressives want everyone to get a free car and gas too right? We need to consider mental health as well, staying at home with nothing to do might drive them crazy so free cable television and cellphones are needed for the poor, they need a free night out on the town every now and then too, being forced to stare at the same walls of their home every day is too much to ask so dinner and a movie once a week would be the least the Government should provide.....right? Do you Progressives even know what personal responsibility means? What about the poor? What about the family of the poor? Why can't their own family help support them and take care of them until they can get back on their feet Phreak? The best part of that system is you know damn well people would not just be lazy if they have to ask for handouts from their own family to survive. Their own family knows if their worthless lazy people or honerable people needing a hand. There is no possible way for the Government to know these things. And you say I dodge a direct question? Nothing in that link has anthing to do with my question. Did I ever say all or most hospitals were founded or run by religious people? That entire rant was running around in circles but you still refuse to answer my direct question. Most hospitals are for profit, it costs a lot of money to create a hospital, but there are completely religious hospitals and there are also completely free hospitals run in bad places like Darfur that are only there because of religious people. We know that religious people have come together to help communities in many ways to include some hospitals but I ask you the question again, can you name a single hospital run by atheists? Just one example?

I always loved that Progressive twist on words, how exactly is it a "public option" if it is the Government running it? Obviously that would be a "Government option" not a public one. And to answer the question, no, no insurance at all, hugo pointed out the best way, allow insurance only for major illness and make people pay out of pocket for basic care. What is this hate you have against churches? Yes, there are churches run by religious people, I am wondering though, can you name a hospital built and run by Atheists? It does not matter what they "want" to bill, without insurance companies to spread the cost along to other people there would be no way to collect $25,000 for a three day stay in the hospital. Cost would have to scale to what a person could reasonably pay. When faced with no other option, the system would be forced to change. "Necessity, who is the mother of invention." ~ Plato Hugo gave one example, let me give another, a friend of mine was without insurance and broke his collar bone in an accident riding a motorcycle. He worked out a deal to get all his treatments for about $1,000. That included x-rays and the doctor fees. If we truly want to reduce the cost of healthcare, we have to eliminate the ability for the cost to be spread out to other people who are not there being treated. Great post hugo.

Dodge? Me? Unlike yourself I dodge nothing, I answered the question but you can't handle the answer so you are now busy trying to remake the question to save face. Speaking about dodging a question, I am still waiting on you to answer my question about why the new healthcare bill had to have sweet special deals included like the one where Unions are exempt from the new taxes on their healthcare plans but everyone else has to pay those new taxes? What did those special deals have to do with helping the poor who did not have insurance? I will make the answer more simple being as you are trying to pretend to not see the answer: The people in the community will handle educating their own children just like they did long before big Government bullied their way into things and messed it all up. The schools in the past were run by private donations from the community to the school and they took care of the teacher, many cases building a home for free to live in etc..... Also, have you ever heard of something called "home school"? That is where the parents of a child teaches their own child at home. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against a public school system being run by the Government, but the problem is they spend so much time on the buracracy and things that have no9thing to do with an education that the vast majority of the money they spend is wasted. Give that money back to those who earn it and let us take care of our own needs to include educating our youth. There is nothing stopping atheists like you from building your own schools just like the Christians Phreak. The problem is, only Christians are willing to give to community without a big Government gun held to their heads. Just like welfare, even after massive taxes Christians donate 99% all of the money supporting things like soup kitchens and food banks. Christians run all the programs trying to help people in far away places like Darfur, not one Atheist is out there doing that kind of work. Anly an Atheist must be forced to help his fellow man "who truly needs that help". Good Progressives never take off their blinders right Phreak? That is why you would claim the Republicans had no new ideas and even after IWS would post many examples of new ideas from Republicans, you would still claim to have never seen one. You simply blind yourself to what you don't want to see. There is another great example of how a Conservative and a Progressive are different. You Progressives limit your exposures to only what you want to see and hear while a Conservative looks openly at all sides and "chooses" the Conservative ideas because it is the most responsible and logical out of all choices. lol, as usual Wez you have no real intention of honest debate, all you want is an arguement and you will not get it from me. Joker already pointed out one massive mistake you mentioned but the point all you Progressives miss is all I want is for people to be responsible for their own actions. You and all Progressives are rooted in the idea that people should not be held responsible for their actions and you also feel it is the role of Government to "fix" the lives of Americans, even against their will. You talk about wanting people like me to adopt unwanted children but who made the unwanted children Wez? Do you have anything negative to say about humans who don't take their reproductive powers seriously? How about yourself Wez? You did not care, you had unprotected sex and created an unwanted baby and the only answer you could come up with it to kill the result of your irresponsibility. A child had to die so you would not have to be inconvenienced. When Progressives like yourself start taking responsibility for your own actions, America will start to get strong again.

The cornerstone of the Progressive movement is without doubt California. They give away a lot more in social services than anyone else and a great deal of that even goes to illegals so the concept of redistributing wealth is well established and put in place and we can see how well it works just by watching them. Well it is known that they have been broke for a very long time now and there is no sign of them ever learning how to set a realistic budget but not only that, their people pay more for everything than most other Americans. Every day goods cost sometimes 50% more in California than it does in nearby States and now a new problem has just hit, remember that healthcare bill the Progressives passed? Remember how it was called the "affordable healthcare act"? Well, let's see what is happening in the Progressive Capital of America: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/02/01/californians-bracing-pay-more-health-care ---------------------------------- It's the perfect storm in California when it comes to rising health care costs, with millions bracing for huge increases in their monthly insurance bill. What's happening? The Golden State is one of many states that doesn't allow for rate regulation. In addition, California is home to most all of the big insurance companies and the largest market of uninsured people. At the same time major insurers are racing to beat a July 1st deadline requiring these companies to publicly justify their rate hikes. So, what the people of California are left with are massive increases in their health insurance premiums, to the tune of nearly 60 percent when it comes to Blue Shield in particular. Just today they caved in to public pressure and agreed to join every other insurance company in California like Aetna, Anthem Blue Cross and Pacificare to wait sixty days to raise their rates, but there's little doubt those rate hikes are still coming later this spring. ----------------------------------- As I have said all along, there was nothing in that bill to actually reduce the cost of insurance or healchare, it was all smoke and mirrors to give a reward to Insurance companies because they have always supported Progressive canidates. I have an idea, do away with insurance completely. It is the ability to spread the cost accross many that has allowed the costs to increase. If reimbursement was restricted to just what the average person could pay from their pocket, there would be no choice but to reduce costs back to what people could afford. Of course the Government would also have to eliminate all regulations because there would also be no way doctors could pay those massive Government fees without being able to pass those fees onto the insurance companies.....etc..... At the root of all cost increases and loss jobs is Government intrusion and mandates.

Our Government has always been in the business of enforcing community morals Wez, but America never was intended to be a day care facility. Killing an innocent life was always considered immoral up to recent times where science and selfishness came together to allow women to kill their children just because the child is inconvenient. Now instead of two people being responsible when they copulate, they rut like unthinking animals in heat and simply kill the baby if one is created from their "choice" to have unprotected sex. This stuff from Progressives is all about greed and envy, nothing else. Even in this thread Phreak shows how the real motivation for Progressives is their own greed, "The worlds problem will always be too much wealth accumulation going to too few people". Progressives are jealous of people who have more than them, they claim it is unfair for someone to make more money than they make so they paint the people with more than them as "evil". The question is, at what point in history has it ever been any different? Most people can't hold onto money, it is a shame but that is true. Almost all people who "win" the lottery go bankrupt....why? If just tossing money at the poor was the solution why is it every time a poor person gets money they loose it all? How many years have we been throwing money to people on Welfare just to watch the number of people taking the money explode? Welfare breeds more welfare. How about all those people who get their income tax check and go out and blow every cent within days of getting it? Most even pay extra money to get a "loan" on their return so they can spend it faster at a huge penalty. They could put that money in the bank, or invest it, but they don't. It is all about instant gratification and that is why 99% of poor people will stay poor. If you go out and steal money from someone else to put in your own pocket that is called theft and you can go to jail. If you get the Government to do it for you it is called being a Progressive/Democrat.

Not sure of your question Phreak. All laws are based at their root in morals, killing without cause was considered wrong long before the American constitution was created. There have always been considerations of right and wrong where people have strong moral character. You Progressives seem to be more interested in what you can get away with (like passing Obamacare in sneeky ways) than doing things the right and moral way. If I am asked to offer my opinion on something I base that opinion first on the morals of the issue and second on the rules of society first standard being the Constitution.

I see you don't even try to see and pay attention to what he says, sticking your head in the sand and wearing blinders from the truth will only get you so far my friend. You should care about what he says because he is right. Take his point about how much even the poor have in our society. Look around the world and give me an example of where the poor have more under a system not at least partly dedicated to free markets and capitalism? First of all where did I or anyone else say we should be living in a Utopia Phreak? I don't see that promise in the Constitution do you? Where is a promise of perfection or an easy life? This is the real problem you Progressives have, you think someone other then yourself should "fix" life for you and others. America was not created to be a day care facility Phreak, it was based on the concepts of freedoms and personal responsibility. But, the more freedoms we have, the more each of us has to do for ourselves to survive and prosper. Many years ago, we had almost no Government intervention and massive innovations and freedoms in America. Today we have massive Government and little innovations and a lot of lazy people in America.......The F.B.I. would call that a clue. Let's look at the example you talk of, education. Do you even know who started education to the masses in America? Do you? You will hate the answer Phreak. Religion. Religious people wanted other people able to read so the word of their faith could be spread. The mass majority of people who could read was because of religion. You always hear about the "little red school house" and while they were not all red it is true that each community would support their local small school, and do you know where the schools were locatred Phreak? Either in or next to the local church. Local communities did not support the school because of Government mandates, they did it because it was the right thing to do. So what did our all powerful Government do with the idea? Today we spend around 1/4 of our education budget on the buracracy to keep the schools running. We spend more money on lunches than we do on school supplies. Why can't a kid take a sandwich for lunch and eliminate the school lunch program completely? What does sex education have to do with getting educated? Most 12 year olds could most likely teach the class these days.....the examples can go on forever but the point is we let the Government run wild and the result is lower standards, when I was a kid you had to score a 95 to get an "A" today you get the same "A" for a score of 90, why? Why did the Government lower standards? You see Phreak, with an all powerful Government, nothing is ever enough. First one thing then the next off into a never ending crusade to remake America into what they feel it should be instead of what it is. With great risk goes great reward and great penalties. You Progressives always seem to want to save people from themselves, and that is an impossible agenda. You can't "fix" the lives of other people, they must do the work themselves. What you Progressives seem to want is to put all Americans into cages like rabbits, let us eat and sh!t, mate and have children all under your microscope, you give us what you want us to have to eat and drink and while we will survive and live, we will never be free.

Obama was the picture perfect Presidential material. he looked the part, spoke the part, said all the right things and had plenty of support and what did we get as a result of all that perfection hugo? Yes, Palin made some mistakes, I agree with you guys on how it looked bad for her to step down but I understand "why" she stepped down, the level of attacks even from people like you who are sometimes conservative was more than she was prepared to handle. To be honest I put part of that blame on those who should have gotten her prepared for this before she was announced. Guys, I am not so much saying she would be great as I am saying that I am sick and tired of professional politicians. Palin is a genuine person, someone who is not hiding a completely different agenda behind her back like Obama and all the Progressives. I would love to see some true humans run for office but we make it hard to entice real people to office because of the internal bickering that goes way, way off the page of decency. Hugo, you are a prime example, you atack Sarah for following State law, she had no choice but to follow those laws and do the best by those laws she could. I happen to like that about her. Imagine she did what you say you want her to do, ignore State law and do what you would want her to do. Let's say she gives all the oil away to big oil companies as you say and simply ignores the State laws.........how is that any different from the Progressives ignoring the constitution to put into place more "social justice" programs? Either those in public office respect and follow the laws of their States and Country or they don't Hugo. If it is okay to ignore these laws in one way, then you are condoning them to be ignored in other ways.

People are stupid, they see the radical like you come out against Palin and believe that at least some of what you say might be true and if there is that much internal fighting it may be better not to support her. Put simply, you cause the internal fighting because of an irrational view you have of her and other conservative minded people who don't measure up to your concept of perfection in a political canidate. Sarah Palin did not write the laws making the oil the property of all Alaskan residents Hugo, all she did do is support those State laws to the best of her ability no matter if she agreed with them or not. I like that about her because right now we have people like Obama who do not like the constitution and are ignoring it as much as possible. Progressives hate our existing laws and try to work around them all the time. I donb't want Sarah Palin ignoring State law any more than I want Obama and company ignoring the Constitution. People like you dirty the water for conservaties who may want to get into public service but do not want to face attacks even from people who should be on their side. Together we stand, divided we fall. You are one of the divided, sure take issue as we boil down the choices, but you take it to a level of hatred and lies that actually hurt conservative canidates.