Guest SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/attorny.htm A.J. mom's motives disputed in 7-year-old girl's slaying By Kevin Sheh, Cristina de Isasi and Kirk Mitchell The Tribune Barbara Downey claimed she was commanded by God to kill her 7-year-old daughter. Now the 25-year-old Apache Junction woman will answer to a mortal's court. The woman was arrested Tuesday after she confessed to shooting her daughter "because it was God's will." Wednesday morning, Downey led police to a desert area east of Apache Junction, where they found the body of 7-year-old Jessica Helms. "God is my attorney," Downey said to a judge during her initial appearance Wednesday. She claimed God told her to kill her daughter because the girl was born out of wedlock, police said. But some relatives of the girl's father, Steven Helms, don't believe her. They said they think Downey killed her daughter to get back at Helms because he had a new girlfriend. "Every time Steven would go with a girl, Barbara would get jealous and stop Steven from seeing the girl," said an uncle who Helms recently lived with. He would identify himself only as Glen. Once Downey denied the father visitation for two months, Glen said. Still, she had a reputation for being a good mother, and friends and neighbors said that she was never religious, until last week. Downey's live-in boyfriend, James David Ladd, told police Downey started acting odd a week ago. "He said she was reading a certain passage in the Bible talking about children born out of wedlock," said Apache Junction police Lt. Brian Duncan. "She said it wasn't right -- and the Lord spoke to her as she read the passage." So when Ladd discovered Downey picked up her daughter from Four Peaks Elementary School at 1:15 p.m. Tuesday -- about two hours early -- he was suspicious. "Once he discovered his gun also was missing, he called police," about 2:50 p.m., Duncan said. Jessica was last seen alive about 3:10 p.m., when a family friend spotted Downey driving her boyfriend's Toyota truck east on Superstition Boulevard at Geronimo Road. The friend, who was watching Downey's 4-year-old son, said Jessica was a passenger and appeared to be in good health. Police searched for the girl in vain. About 5:30 p.m., Downey returned home. Police quickly arrived and whisked Downey to the Apache Junction police station. Within minutes, Downey was arrested on suspicion of first-degree murder. Police seized the boyfriend's 9mm handgun and truck. "She answered all our questions.....She seemed very comfortable with her decision, with what she did," Duncan said. "In her mind, she was led by the will of God to do this .... because her daughter was born out of wedlock." Wednesday morning, Downey led police to a desert area south of De Barge Road at Lost Dutchman Boulevard. There, wrapped in a tarp and lying deep in a wash, police found Jessica's body. Downey was calm, almost nonchalant, Duncan said. Though she had been arrested for drug abuse in 1994, Downey was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol Tuesday, police said. Neighbors, friends and relatives said Downey had no mental problems or any history of abuse toward her daughter or son, police said. She had no religious affiliations, Duncan said. "She didn't hold back or deny the fact that she killed her daughter," he said. Clutching a red Bible with her cuffed hands, Downey was led Tuesday afternoon into the Apache Junction Justice Court for her initial appearance. She sat down silently, set a Bible on a table and rocked gently in her chair until Justice of the Peace Corwin Brundrett called her name. After Brundrett announced she would be held without bail and ended the hearing, she grabbed the Bible and held it high as she was led out of the courthouse. "Do you believe in God? He's coming," Downey shouted at reporters as she was whisked to Pinal County Jail in Florence. "God didn't tell me to do this....I did this for myself." Her son was turned over to Downey's grandparents. Downey told police her son was safe because she was married when her son was born. Ladd, who could not be reached for comment, was "very emotional" Wednesday. He will not be charged in the death, Duncan said. "He's blaming himself for the whole thing," said Thomas, a man who lives in a trailer next door and didn't want his last name publicized. "Sometimes you don't want to say anything to get anyone in trouble if you care about them," he said. "What she did was pretty hard," Thomas added. "But no one can tell what she was thinking at the time. Who's anybody to say she didn't hear any voices." Mary Black, Helms' aunt, was skeptical. "If she found God, she found a different god than every one of us knows," said Black, who is a practicing Catholic. Asked if she would pray for Downey at church this Sunday, she paused. "That's tough," she finally said. "Yeah, I probably will. I hope she finds the real God. But I don't approve of that as a means to get off for something you've done." Ed Packard, Downey's father, declined to discuss the death with "The Tribune." He and other family members gathered at the Packard residence -- a pink stucco house on a private dirt road at the foot of a mountain north of Apache Junction. A man wearing a gun shooed reporters away. Jessica's father, an East Valley resident, could not be reached for comment. However, a relative of the family, Marlene Branom, said Helms met with the Packards on Wednesday to make funeral arrangements for the girl. "Steven is as shocked as we are," said Branom, Helm's aunt. "He doesn't know what happened." Both Downey's neighbors and Helm's relatives gave conflicting descriptions of Downey's behavior. Some said she was a happy woman who spent all her time playing with her children. Others said she hung with a strange crowd and once abandoned her children at her parents house so she could leave to figure out what to do with her life. Branom said Downey had always been a very loving mother to Jessica. She never saw her yell or hit the child, who was a shy, sweet girl, she said. "It's just totally out of the ordinary for the mother," Branom said. "She was always hugging and kissing on her." Helms, who had custody of the girl every other weekend, is taking his only daughter's death very hard, she said. "She was the center of his life," Branom said. "He was crazy about her." Black said she watched Downey grow from a "spunky" little girl to the young woman who eventually had a yearlong relationship with Helms. Black said she had always known Downey as a good mother, and was surprised to see the same woman on television Wednesday in handcuffs, talking about God's role in the killing. "She's not the Barbara we all know," Black said. But neighbors at Downey's old address on Julep Street in east Mesa said Downey hung with a strange crowd of people who wore bizarre hairstyles and pierced their bodies. They had fights that drew police and threw loud parties. One man said his first encounter with Downey was when he reprimanded her for speeding down their quiet, residential block while children were in the street. Her brother, Mike, told neighbors that about six months ago Downey dropped her children off at her parents' house and left, not returning for about two months. Downey had no history of violence in Pinal or Maricopa counties. But she had a few brushes with the law, according to court records in those counties. She was arrested in 1994 in Mesa on a marijuana charge. When she did not appear for a hearing, a warrant was issued for her arrest. Police caught up with her in Scottsdale in January 1996 and Downey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Atheist are Stooges Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 You militant atheists pretty much all work from the same script. Although viewing yourselves as "free thinkers", you all have a Party Line you follow rather closely. It isn't difficult to anticipate your arguments on any given point. Most intelligent religious individuals almost always can correctly predict what you'll say next.Interestingly, militant atheists get much of their beliefs about "Christianity" from liberal Christians. They'll pejoratively label all Christians as "Fundies", then presumptively attack liberal theological concepts they suppose us "Fundies" subscribe to ! Nearly all militant atheists are followers of the religion of Scientism. Their priests wear white lab coats. Their sacramental objects are the microscope, the telescope, and the test tube. Blasphemy is to deny the ultimate authority of science. But the militant atheists -the ones who have devoted their lives to refuting Christianity- are almost like the demons ...who believe more firmly in God's existence than do Christians ! It can unequivocally be stated that militant atheists are some of the people who most solidly believe in God ! Ain't talking 'practical atheists' here ...those who don't even think much about atheism. They're the true atheists. Professional atheists who've dedicated themselves to eradicating the Lord do so because they hate Him. They're the God-haters. To which they'll invariably reply: 'How can we hate something we don't believe in ?'. Exactly ! It's their belief in God which drives them to relentlessly attack Him. Run of the mill, everyday 'practical atheists' don't give God a second thought. They're the ones I worry about. Whereas militant atheists are fighting against the innate knowledge of suppressed in their hearts. As a militant atheist I can unequivocally state that there is no time in your life that you totally disbelieved in God. And -in fact- were driven to work against the Lord by belief in Him ! It isn't that militant atheists don't believe God exists. Instead: That they don't want God to exist. "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <killgod@killgod.com> wrote in message news:kZ_ai.15622$296.9892@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... > http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/attorny.htm > > A.J. mom's motives disputed in 7-year-old girl's slaying > > By Kevin Sheh, Cristina de Isasi and Kirk Mitchell The Tribune > > Barbara Downey claimed she was commanded by God to kill her 7-year-old > daughter. > > Now the 25-year-old Apache Junction woman will answer to a mortal's court. > > The woman was arrested Tuesday after she confessed to shooting her > daughter "because it was God's will." Wednesday morning, Downey led police > to a desert area east of Apache Junction, where they found the body of > 7-year-old Jessica Helms. > > "God is my attorney," Downey said to a judge during her initial appearance > Wednesday. She claimed God told her to kill her daughter because the girl > was born out of wedlock, police said. > > But some relatives of the girl's father, Steven Helms, don't believe her. > They said they think Downey killed her daughter to get back at Helms > because he had a new girlfriend. > > "Every time Steven would go with a girl, Barbara would get jealous and > stop Steven from seeing the girl," said an uncle who Helms recently lived > with. He would identify himself only as Glen. Once Downey denied the > father visitation for two months, Glen said. > > Still, she had a reputation for being a good mother, and friends and > neighbors said that she was never religious, until last week. > > Downey's live-in boyfriend, James David Ladd, told police Downey started > acting odd a week ago. > > "He said she was reading a certain passage in the Bible talking about > children born out of wedlock," said Apache Junction police Lt. Brian > Duncan. "She said it wasn't right -- and the Lord spoke to her as she read > the passage." > > So when Ladd discovered Downey picked up her daughter from Four Peaks > Elementary School at 1:15 p.m. Tuesday -- about two hours early -- he was > suspicious. > > "Once he discovered his gun also was missing, he called police," about > 2:50 p.m., Duncan said. > > Jessica was last seen alive about 3:10 p.m., when a family friend spotted > Downey driving her boyfriend's Toyota truck east on Superstition Boulevard > at Geronimo Road. The friend, who was watching Downey's 4-year-old son, > said Jessica was a passenger and appeared to be in good health. > > Police searched for the girl in vain. About 5:30 p.m., Downey returned > home. Police quickly arrived and whisked Downey to the Apache Junction > police station. Within minutes, Downey was arrested on suspicion of > first-degree murder. Police seized the boyfriend's 9mm handgun and truck. > > "She answered all our questions.....She seemed very comfortable with her > decision, with what she did," Duncan said. "In her mind, she was led by > the will of God to do this .... because her daughter was born out of > wedlock." > > Wednesday morning, Downey led police to a desert area south of De Barge > Road at Lost Dutchman Boulevard. There, wrapped in a tarp and lying deep > in a wash, police found Jessica's body. > > Downey was calm, almost nonchalant, Duncan said. Though she had been > arrested for drug abuse in 1994, Downey was not under the influence of > drugs or alcohol Tuesday, police said. Neighbors, friends and relatives > said Downey had no mental problems or any history of abuse toward her > daughter or son, police said. She had no religious affiliations, Duncan > said. > > "She didn't hold back or deny the fact that she killed her daughter," he > said. > > Clutching a red Bible with her cuffed hands, Downey was led Tuesday > afternoon into the Apache Junction Justice Court for her initial > appearance. She sat down silently, set a Bible on a table and rocked > gently in her chair until Justice of the Peace Corwin Brundrett called her > name. > > After Brundrett announced she would be held without bail and ended the > hearing, she grabbed the Bible and held it high as she was led out of the > courthouse. > > "Do you believe in God? He's coming," Downey shouted at reporters as she > was whisked to Pinal County Jail in Florence. "God didn't tell me to do > this....I did this for myself." > > Her son was turned over to Downey's grandparents. Downey told police her > son was safe because she was married when her son was born. > > Ladd, who could not be reached for comment, was "very emotional" > Wednesday. He will not be charged in the death, Duncan said. > > "He's blaming himself for the whole thing," said Thomas, a man who lives > in a trailer next door and didn't want his last name publicized. > > "Sometimes you don't want to say anything to get anyone in trouble if you > care about them," he said. > > "What she did was pretty hard," Thomas added. "But no one can tell what > she was thinking at the time. Who's anybody to say she didn't hear any > voices." > > Mary Black, Helms' aunt, was skeptical. > > "If she found God, she found a different god than every one of us knows," > said Black, who is a practicing Catholic. Asked if she would pray for > Downey at church this Sunday, she paused. "That's tough," she finally > said. "Yeah, I probably will. I hope she finds the real God. But I don't > approve of that as a means to get off for something you've done." > > Ed Packard, Downey's father, declined to discuss the death with "The > Tribune." He and other family members gathered at the Packard residence -- > a pink stucco house on a private dirt road at the foot of a mountain north > of Apache Junction. A man wearing a gun shooed reporters away. Jessica's > father, an East Valley resident, could not be reached for comment. > > However, a relative of the family, Marlene Branom, said Helms met with the > Packards on Wednesday to make funeral arrangements for the girl. > > "Steven is as shocked as we are," said Branom, Helm's aunt. "He doesn't > know what happened." > > Both Downey's neighbors and Helm's relatives gave conflicting descriptions > of Downey's behavior. Some said she was a happy woman who spent all her > time playing with her children. Others said she hung with a strange crowd > and once abandoned her children at her parents house so she could leave to > figure out what to do with her life. > > Branom said Downey had always been a very loving mother to Jessica. > > She never saw her yell or hit the child, who was a shy, sweet girl, she > said. > > "It's just totally out of the ordinary for the mother," Branom said. "She > was always hugging and kissing on her." > > Helms, who had custody of the girl every other weekend, is taking his only > daughter's death very hard, she said. > > "She was the center of his life," Branom said. "He was crazy about her." > > Black said she watched Downey grow from a "spunky" little girl to the > young woman who eventually had a yearlong relationship with Helms. Black > said she had always known Downey as a good mother, and was surprised to > see the same woman on television Wednesday in handcuffs, talking about > God's role in the killing. > > "She's not the Barbara we all know," Black said. > > But neighbors at Downey's old address on Julep Street in east Mesa said > Downey hung with a strange crowd of people who wore bizarre hairstyles and > pierced their bodies. They had fights that drew police and threw loud > parties. One man said his first encounter with Downey was when he > reprimanded her for speeding down their quiet, residential block while > children were in the street. > > Her brother, Mike, told neighbors that about six months ago Downey dropped > her children off at her parents' house and left, not returning for about > two months. > > Downey had no history of violence in Pinal or Maricopa counties. But she > had a few brushes with the law, according to court records in those > counties. > > She was arrested in 1994 in Mesa on a marijuana charge. When she did not > appear for a hearing, a warrant was issued for her arrest. Police caught > up with her in Scottsdale in January 1996 and Downey > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill M Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Just more religious nonsesnse! "Atheist are Stooges" <Atheist.Stooges@Yahoo.com> wrote in message news:466cb63d$0$10296$815e3792@news.qwest.net... > You militant atheists pretty much all work from the same script. > Although viewing yourselves as "free thinkers", you all have a Party Line > you follow rather closely. > It isn't difficult to anticipate your arguments on any > given point. Most intelligent religious individuals almost always can > correctly predict what > you'll say next.Interestingly, militant atheists get much of their beliefs > about "Christianity" from liberal Christians. > They'll pejoratively label all Christians as "Fundies", > then presumptively attack liberal theological concepts > they suppose us "Fundies" subscribe to ! > Nearly all militant atheists are followers of the > religion of Scientism. Their priests wear white lab > coats. Their sacramental objects are the microscope, > the telescope, and the test tube. Blasphemy is to > deny the ultimate authority of science. > But the militant atheists -the ones who have devoted > their lives to refuting Christianity- are almost like the > demons ...who believe more firmly in God's existence > than do Christians ! > It can unequivocally be stated that militant atheists are some > of the people who most solidly believe in God ! > Ain't talking 'practical atheists' here ...those who don't > even think much about atheism. They're the true > atheists. > Professional atheists who've dedicated themselves > to eradicating the Lord do so because they hate Him. > They're the God-haters. > To which they'll invariably reply: 'How can we hate > something we don't believe in ?'. > Exactly ! It's their belief in God which drives them to > relentlessly attack Him. > Run of the mill, everyday 'practical atheists' don't > give God a second thought. They're the ones > I worry about. > Whereas militant atheists are fighting against the > innate knowledge of suppressed in their hearts. > As a militant atheist I can unequivocally state that there is no time in > your life that you > totally disbelieved in God. And -in fact- were driven to > work against the Lord by belief in Him ! > It isn't that militant atheists don't believe God exists. > Instead: That they don't want God to exist. > > > "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" <killgod@killgod.com> wrote in message > news:kZ_ai.15622$296.9892@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... >> http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/attorny.htm >> >> A.J. mom's motives disputed in 7-year-old girl's slaying >> >> By Kevin Sheh, Cristina de Isasi and Kirk Mitchell The Tribune >> >> Barbara Downey claimed she was commanded by God to kill her 7-year-old >> daughter. >> >> Now the 25-year-old Apache Junction woman will answer to a mortal's >> court. >> >> The woman was arrested Tuesday after she confessed to shooting her >> daughter "because it was God's will." Wednesday morning, Downey led >> police to a desert area east of Apache Junction, where they found the >> body of 7-year-old Jessica Helms. >> >> "God is my attorney," Downey said to a judge during her initial >> appearance Wednesday. She claimed God told her to kill her daughter >> because the girl was born out of wedlock, police said. >> >> But some relatives of the girl's father, Steven Helms, don't believe her. >> They said they think Downey killed her daughter to get back at Helms >> because he had a new girlfriend. >> >> "Every time Steven would go with a girl, Barbara would get jealous and >> stop Steven from seeing the girl," said an uncle who Helms recently lived >> with. He would identify himself only as Glen. Once Downey denied the >> father visitation for two months, Glen said. >> >> Still, she had a reputation for being a good mother, and friends and >> neighbors said that she was never religious, until last week. >> >> Downey's live-in boyfriend, James David Ladd, told police Downey started >> acting odd a week ago. >> >> "He said she was reading a certain passage in the Bible talking about >> children born out of wedlock," said Apache Junction police Lt. Brian >> Duncan. "She said it wasn't right -- and the Lord spoke to her as she >> read the passage." >> >> So when Ladd discovered Downey picked up her daughter from Four Peaks >> Elementary School at 1:15 p.m. Tuesday -- about two hours early -- he was >> suspicious. >> >> "Once he discovered his gun also was missing, he called police," about >> 2:50 p.m., Duncan said. >> >> Jessica was last seen alive about 3:10 p.m., when a family friend spotted >> Downey driving her boyfriend's Toyota truck east on Superstition >> Boulevard at Geronimo Road. The friend, who was watching Downey's >> 4-year-old son, said Jessica was a passenger and appeared to be in good >> health. >> >> Police searched for the girl in vain. About 5:30 p.m., Downey returned >> home. Police quickly arrived and whisked Downey to the Apache Junction >> police station. Within minutes, Downey was arrested on suspicion of >> first-degree murder. Police seized the boyfriend's 9mm handgun and truck. >> >> "She answered all our questions.....She seemed very comfortable with her >> decision, with what she did," Duncan said. "In her mind, she was led by >> the will of God to do this .... because her daughter was born out of >> wedlock." >> >> Wednesday morning, Downey led police to a desert area south of De Barge >> Road at Lost Dutchman Boulevard. There, wrapped in a tarp and lying deep >> in a wash, police found Jessica's body. >> >> Downey was calm, almost nonchalant, Duncan said. Though she had been >> arrested for drug abuse in 1994, Downey was not under the influence of >> drugs or alcohol Tuesday, police said. Neighbors, friends and relatives >> said Downey had no mental problems or any history of abuse toward her >> daughter or son, police said. She had no religious affiliations, Duncan >> said. >> >> "She didn't hold back or deny the fact that she killed her daughter," he >> said. >> >> Clutching a red Bible with her cuffed hands, Downey was led Tuesday >> afternoon into the Apache Junction Justice Court for her initial >> appearance. She sat down silently, set a Bible on a table and rocked >> gently in her chair until Justice of the Peace Corwin Brundrett called >> her name. >> >> After Brundrett announced she would be held without bail and ended the >> hearing, she grabbed the Bible and held it high as she was led out of the >> courthouse. >> >> "Do you believe in God? He's coming," Downey shouted at reporters as she >> was whisked to Pinal County Jail in Florence. "God didn't tell me to do >> this....I did this for myself." >> >> Her son was turned over to Downey's grandparents. Downey told police her >> son was safe because she was married when her son was born. >> >> Ladd, who could not be reached for comment, was "very emotional" >> Wednesday. He will not be charged in the death, Duncan said. >> >> "He's blaming himself for the whole thing," said Thomas, a man who lives >> in a trailer next door and didn't want his last name publicized. >> >> "Sometimes you don't want to say anything to get anyone in trouble if you >> care about them," he said. >> >> "What she did was pretty hard," Thomas added. "But no one can tell what >> she was thinking at the time. Who's anybody to say she didn't hear any >> voices." >> >> Mary Black, Helms' aunt, was skeptical. >> >> "If she found God, she found a different god than every one of us knows," >> said Black, who is a practicing Catholic. Asked if she would pray for >> Downey at church this Sunday, she paused. "That's tough," she finally >> said. "Yeah, I probably will. I hope she finds the real God. But I don't >> approve of that as a means to get off for something you've done." >> >> Ed Packard, Downey's father, declined to discuss the death with "The >> Tribune." He and other family members gathered at the Packard >> residence -- a pink stucco house on a private dirt road at the foot of a >> mountain north of Apache Junction. A man wearing a gun shooed reporters >> away. Jessica's father, an East Valley resident, could not be reached for >> comment. >> >> However, a relative of the family, Marlene Branom, said Helms met with >> the Packards on Wednesday to make funeral arrangements for the girl. >> >> "Steven is as shocked as we are," said Branom, Helm's aunt. "He doesn't >> know what happened." >> >> Both Downey's neighbors and Helm's relatives gave conflicting >> descriptions of Downey's behavior. Some said she was a happy woman who >> spent all her time playing with her children. Others said she hung with a >> strange crowd and once abandoned her children at her parents house so she >> could leave to figure out what to do with her life. >> >> Branom said Downey had always been a very loving mother to Jessica. >> >> She never saw her yell or hit the child, who was a shy, sweet girl, she >> said. >> >> "It's just totally out of the ordinary for the mother," Branom said. "She >> was always hugging and kissing on her." >> >> Helms, who had custody of the girl every other weekend, is taking his >> only daughter's death very hard, she said. >> >> "She was the center of his life," Branom said. "He was crazy about her." >> >> Black said she watched Downey grow from a "spunky" little girl to the >> young woman who eventually had a yearlong relationship with Helms. Black >> said she had always known Downey as a good mother, and was surprised to >> see the same woman on television Wednesday in handcuffs, talking about >> God's role in the killing. >> >> "She's not the Barbara we all know," Black said. >> >> But neighbors at Downey's old address on Julep Street in east Mesa said >> Downey hung with a strange crowd of people who wore bizarre hairstyles >> and pierced their bodies. They had fights that drew police and threw loud >> parties. One man said his first encounter with Downey was when he >> reprimanded her for speeding down their quiet, residential block while >> children were in the street. >> >> Her brother, Mike, told neighbors that about six months ago Downey >> dropped her children off at her parents' house and left, not returning >> for about two months. >> >> Downey had no history of violence in Pinal or Maricopa counties. But she >> had a few brushes with the law, according to court records in those >> counties. >> >> She was arrested in 1994 in Mesa on a marijuana charge. When she did not >> appear for a hearing, a warrant was issued for her arrest. Police caught >> up with her in Scottsdale in January 1996 and Downey >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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