J
John Winston
Guest
Subject: Lear Tells What's What. Feb. 6, 2008.
Here is an interview with John Lear who was on the
Coasttocoast radio talk show.
.........................................................
.........................................................
UFO Coverup
Startling Revelations Concerning the Subject of Aerial
Phenomena and UFOs
ART BELL INTERVIEW OF JOHN LEAR
11-2/3-03
INTRODUCTION:
John Lear, retired airline captain, with over 19,000
hours of flight-time, has flown in over 100 different
types of planes in 60 different counties around the
world.
Son of Lear Jet inventor, Bill Lear, John is the only
pilot to hold every FAA airplane certificate, to include
airplane transport rating, flight instructor, ground
instructor, flight navigator, engineer, aircraft
dispatcher, airframe powerplant mechanic, parachute
rigger, and tower operator.
He flew s-cret missions for the C-A in Central and
Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and
Africa between 1966 and 1983.
He has flown as Captain and check pilot for over
10 different airlines.
John held 17 world records including speed around
the world in a Lear Jet Model 24, set in 1966. He was
presented with the PATCO award for outstanding
airmanship in 1968, and the Symons Wave memorial. He
was the youngest American to climb the Matterhorn in
Switzerland in 1959 and in the 1970's owned and
skippered the Americas Cup boat, the Soliloquy, out
of Marina Del Rey.
In 1968, John raced a Douglas B26 Invader in the
unlimited class at the Reno air races.
He was a Senior Vice Commander of the China Post 1,
the American Legion Post for Soldiers of Fortune. He
is a 20 year member of the special operations
Association.
John is the current owner and operator of the only
permitted gold mine operation Cutthroat Mining
Corporation in Clarke County, Nevada. His efforts to
clean up the Treasure Hawk Gold Butte mine won him
the state of Nevada award for excellence in mining
reclamation in 1999.
John is a MSHA (Mine, Safety, and Health
Administration) and holds a blaster license from the
Nevada certified mining instructor from the Nevada
State Fire Marshall.
John's passion for the preservation and documentation
of the history of the Gold Butte has made him a
authority on the area.
John has been a resident of Las Vegas since 1994
and was a republican State Senate candidate in 1980.
John has 4 daughters, 2 grandchildren, and lives
with his wife in Las Vegas. - Las Vegas businesswoman,
Mary Lee Lear in Sunrise Manor.
In 1988, John met and became friends with Bob Lazar,
the g-vernment scientist who worked on the
back-engineering of the propulsion system of the
extraterrestrial UFOs at area S-4. That's just outside
the infamous and ultrase-ret Area 51.
In March 1989, Lazar took John to an area close to
Rachel Nevada where he witnessed the flight of a flying
saucer at the exact time Lazar told him it would occur.
Two weeks later on another UFO s-ying mission, John,
Lazar and 3 others were caught by s-curity forces -
(that's CAUGHT folks) - and the next day, - the very
next day - Lazar lost his job at the go-ernment program
for that breach of sec-rity. Lazar has been branded
by many as a fraud, a charge to which John responds,
"Those who say that Lazar was a fraud simply don't
know the facts of this incredible 12 month period. I
was there - they weren't."
During the late 1980's, John tracked down and
found the A-my Intelligence Analyst who read,
probably by accident, the U.S. gov-rnment report
Grudge 13, which documented the history of the
U.S. UFO coverup and details of saucer recoveries,
disposition of their occupants, and handling;
(That's HANDLING) of civilian witnesses.
The report included clear photographs of these
recovered extraterrestrial craft and beings -
(That's BEINGS) found inside. It further detailed
how recoveries were made worldwide and specially
designed transports to accommodate the craft.
John spent time poking around other UFO related
areas to include Dulce, Secora, Aztec, Alamagorda,
Albuquerque, Los Alamos and Bentwaters airbase
near London.
Since that time, John has learned many incredible
and interesting facts about the solar system and
planets including the existence of huge structures,
arches, bridges and domes on the moon, cities on
Mars, huge extraterrestrial ships mining the rings
of Saturn, the incredible but sec-et agenda of
Apollo 17, to the huge rectangular opening in the
south massif of the Taurus-Littrow Highlands called
Nansen.
Film Type: 70mm Date Taken: 12/12/72
Title: View of lunarscape at Station 4 with
Astronaut Schmitt working at LRV
A view of the lunarscape at Station 4 (Shorty
Crater) showing Scientist-Astronaut Harrison H.
Schmitt working at the lunar roving vehicle during
the second
">Apollo 17 extravehicular activity (EVA-2) at the
Taurus-Littrow landing site.
(Lunar landing site: 20.2 N, 30.8 E )
This is the area where Schmitt first spotted the
orange soil. Orange soil is clearly visible on either
side of the rover in this picture. Shorty Crater is
to the right. The peak in the center background is
Family Mountain. A portion of South Massif is on
the horizon at the left edge.
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/expmoon/Apollo17/A17_sampact.html
Apollo 17 samples)
NOTE: The Valley of Taurus-Littrow
The image linked
here is a portion of Pan Camera frame AS17-2309
showing the South Massif at the upper right and the
Sculptured Hills at the lower left. The North Massif
is at the bottom right and Henry Crater is the
rightmost of the three large craters in a triangular
pattern at the foot of the mountain. This orientation
is to facilitate comparison with features in the
Station 6 high resolution images below. See also the
labeled version of this frame. The distance from
Station 6 above Henry to the LM is 3.5 km; to Bear
Mountain, about 8 km; and to the outcrop noted in
21498 below, about 18 km. Scans by Ron Wells. Apollo
17 Pan Camera frame AS17-2309 Details The frame was
taken on December 11, 1972 at 23:47:38.1 GMT during
CSM Rev 15 from an altitude of 113.07 km. In terms
of the mission time, the photo was taken at 116:54:38
-- just seven minutes before Gene and Jack started
their watches for the first EVA. John Pfannerstill
has scanned three portions of the frame.
In the central area around the LM, the largest
crater is Camelot at the upper left. A labeled
version highlights the LM and Poppie. In the area
north of the LM, covering the EVA-3 traverse,
Henry is the large crater at the foot of the North
Massif just above and to the right of the center
of the image. In the area west of the LM, covering
the EVA-2 traverse, Nansen is at the lower left,
Camelot is at the right edge above center, and
Shorty is the sharp-rimmed, dark-edged crater at
top center, about a Camelot diameter below the top
edge of the image.
Composite Version
Art Bell continues John Lears biography:
John Lear suspects that Venus does not have the
sulfuric acid atmosphere with an 800 degree
temperature that we've all been led to believe and
instead is a planet very similar to ours, but with
a similar, but much more technologically advanced
civilization.
John Lear believes that the govern-ent has very
good reasons for their continued coverup but
refuses to discuss them.
He also believes that the governme-t never,
ever intends to released any UFO information and
if forced to say anything, will obscure, tangle
and weave a deceptive l-e.
Asked outright if the public has a right to
know these facts,
John says, "No! They don't!"
Why?
"Because!" was his admittedly evasive answer.
Then why, after 10 years of silence, is John
Lear talking once again, after almost 60 years,
the majority of U.S. population don't believe that
Roswell happened.
"I certainly do not represent a threat to this kind
of sec-rity", he responds.
xxxx
Start of Interview between Art Bell and John Lear:
A= Art Bell
J = John Lear
A - Other than the fact that we got in touch
once again John, I really am curious. Why! After
10 years, why break your silence now? and Welcome!
Part 1.
John Winston. johnfw@mlode.com
Subject: Lear Tells What's What. Part 2. Feb. 7, 2008.
This talks about 9-11.
.............................................///...........
...........................................................
J - Thank you Art, You mean I could have said, "No!" ?
A - laughs heartily - Yeah! Too late! laughs again.
Yeah! You could have said, No! Sure! I'm - I'm serious -
Why after 10 years of not a peep, why now?
J - Well you know, the g-vernment in charge of this
coverup, - uh - works so well at making your life
miserable when you go around talking about this stuff,
that I quit and my life - the quality of my life improved
about 200%. But now, the coverup is so well in place,
that they certainly would not be threatened by me going
on the radio just once and saying what I know.
A - Yeah! Well, you lost jobs because of this, right?
J - Yeah - I lost two. I lost one with an airline and
one with a go-ernment program that I really wanted. It
was with L-ckheed, and they went for my clearance and
they were told by the air-orce that now - under no
circumstances would John Lear ever get another
clearance. Now - I had a clearance up at the test site
for some work I did with Dyn-e-ectron - it was just
monitoring below ground tests from the air with
different airplane, but - uh - that clearance is still
there, - not active - but they weren't going to renew
it under any circumstances and they made it plain - so
its cost me a little bit, but I managed to survive.
A - Um - all right! You know - before we launch into
the whole spectrum of things we have to talk about
John, uh - when you and I were on the phone the other
day, you began to tell me about 9/11 and I'd really
would like to talk about that. Uh - you have a
perspective on the 9/11 thing that people should at
least hear. I mean - everybody can make up their own
minds about it, but you're a commercial pilot and
there are certain things you know. So how about it?
J - Well! This is a sensitive subject, and I told
you that I was hesitant to talk about it.
A - That's why I'm bringing it up first! (Art
laughs again)
J - But whoever concocted 9/11, and it certainly '
wasn't Osama Bin Ladin, they had two objectives -
one was to polarize American's opinion against
Arab-Muslims and number two was to get the U-ited
States - trick the U.S. - essentially to get Osama
out of Afghanistan because Osama - as bad as he was
- he was shutting down all the heroin poppy fields
and was causing a disastrous monetary loss to the
i-legal d-ug industry - and last year, which was a
year after we went into Afghanistan, National
Geographic did a special on TV, that ran for several
months and documented the 500% increase in dr-gs
flowing out of Afghanistan 'after' we went in there
and eliminated Osama.
A - laughs - They actually did. I recall that. I
remember that report! Um - so you are sort of
charging that we went in there after Osama - after
Osama to rescue the dru- trade?
J - No! Well - that wasn't what 'we' thought - we
were sort of tricked into doing that. We were tricked
into thinking that Osama was responsible for 9/11,
but to get a proper perspective on who 'did' the
World Trade Center - uh - you have to understand
what a magnificent feat of airmanship this was. It
was 'disastrous' and was horrible for this country,
but this was not accomplished by some guys who went
to Florida and got some instructions on a Cessna or
a Piper and this was not accomplished by somebody
who had a right seat on a 727.
A - What about simulators? Flight simulators?
J - This had to be accomplished by pilots who got
instruction - were taken to 'honest-to-G-d' Boeing
757 simulators which is - you know - the 757 and
767 the same ****pit essentially and you get the
same rating and whoever concocted this whole thing
knew that on a particular day that airplanes
themselves could be switched because of maintenance
problems and by selecting airlines that had that
airplane, they had everything covered.
A - Huh! So it actually took a fair amount of
skill to plow into those buildings?
J - I would say that it took about 200 or 300
hours for each pilot - and we're talking about . . .
A - 200 or 300 hours? But you mean of simulator
time?
J - Of simulator time! They had to learn how to
step into the ****pit - and that's a whole thing -
getting into the airplane, but that's separate
from that - they had to get into the ****pit and
pull the circuit breaker for the transponder -
sit in the pilot seat, disconnect the auto-pilot
from the flight management system - turn the
airplane, push the throttles all the way forward,
find Manhattan - then line up on a pre-planned
course - doing 10 miles a minute - they were
clocked by air traffic control doing 600 miles
an hour at 700 feet above the ground and fly
directly into the middle the center of the World
Trade Center. Now that - you know and the air
r-ces only fly 400 miles an hour and that's
difficult - but to fly an airliner like the size
of a 757 at 700 feet - I mean that took some
skill and that took a long time to train that -
probably a year.
A - That's wild (unintelligible)
J - In addition to that - hitting the Trade
Center was a feat - but hitting the P-ntagon was
even more of a feat because when you are going
that fast there is a tremendous amount of air
creating this lift and as you head towards the
ground, that air reacts against the wing and
pushes you up, so whoever - whoever hit that -
trained to hit the Pe-tagon at the 3rd story
was highly trained because when he came towards
the ground - there was a tremendous amount of
lift and you would have to trim forward and
push with an incredible amount of strength to
not be pushed up and over the Pen-agon to hit
the 3rd story.
A - But what about the plane that went down
that didn't make it - that was probably headed
towards the W-itehouse?
J - uh - Well that was shot down by an F-16 out
of a base south of New York and uh . . .
A - How can you be so sure?
J - Well because there were parts found 5 miles
away - uh - because there were eye-witnesses to
it being shot down - uh - there is corroborating
evidence somebody who was listening to a cell
phone conversation at the time this was going on
who said they heard the rapid - like the ...
described it as a pilot rapidly turning pages -
well - that's not what was happening - that was
the cannon fire hitting the fuselage and that's
what accounted for - what they called the 'smoke '
in the air in the cabin - well that wasn't smoke -
that was the depressurization causing the
condensation.
A - Well so you are saying definitely that you
feel it was shot down . . .
J - But you have to understand the go-ernments
position - #1 - they couldn't 'possibly' reveal
this information because - you know - it was
something they had to do - the problem was that
once the passengers got control of the airplane
there was no way to communicate with air traffic
control or communicate with whoever was directing
the attack for the airforce.
A - Now you say Osama Bin Ladin wasn't responsible
but there are video tapes showing Osama with his
Lieutenant sort of laughing and joking - they
didn't expect such a grand result and all that
baloney - what about that?
J - He might have been told at the last minute,
but if that's all we've got, people say 'how come
we haven't got him'? But the bottom line is, we
don't want to get Osama - we'd have to put him on
trial and other than that video tape, we don't
have a 'shred' - not a 'shred' of evidence against
him.
A - Uh huh! Yet, it might be enough in a court of
law!
J - In a world court?
A - You might be right! Well! Uh - I don't know -
You've shocked me with some of your views. on the
9/11 business. No question about that! 100's of
hours - Where would yhey get simulator training
like that? - that many hours . . .
J - Therein lies the problem. Because they
'certainly' couldn't waltz into any airline in
the Un-ted States and get that kind of time - I
mean most of the airlines in the US who have 757's
use them 24 hours a day and they certainly aren't
in the habit of renting - uh - to unauthorized
people like somebody going in there saying 'Hey!
give me 1500 hours of time" - Its just not going
to happen. They would have to find another 757
elsewhere in the world and if you look around
in the Middle-East and there's certainly none
there because at least not in any Arab Country
because they have airbusses - strictly airbusses -
They would have to find 757's somewhere else.
A - How many simulators are there?
J - Well! There are lots of them - but uh -
well - not lots of them - but there's certain
around somewhere and they'd have to make a deal
somewhere - obviously they got training because
they couldn't do it without training .
A - But what we've been given by the media -
by the mass media - you know - they were down
in Florida - getting a few hours on lighter
aircraft - that doesn't wash at all . . .
J - No possibility! If you talk to any pilot
that knows anything about this and that was -
and that was a feat with the (unintelligible)
with the benefit with 19,000 hours in all the
airplanes I've flown including air ra-es - the
Douglas B-26, I doubt that I could have done
that the 1st time . .
A - Really!
J - You are doing a mile every 6 seconds - so
you had to learn where to line up, you know ...
which reference points to get - you know -
where to be at a particular time hit that
building. It had to be planned for a long, long
time.
So this is a tremendous amount of skill, and it
took a long time to do, particularly you know -
they probably got somebody who didn't have
thousands of hours - they probably had to train
them from the ground up, and in this case it
was relatively easy because they didn't have to
learn how to take off and land - he didn't have
to learn how do a single engine approach - he
didn't have to learn to do a (unintelligible)
or MBD approach, or anything like that ...
A - Just hit a building ...
J - Yeah!
Part 2.
John Winston. johnfw@mlode.com
Here is an interview with John Lear who was on the
Coasttocoast radio talk show.
.........................................................
.........................................................
UFO Coverup
Startling Revelations Concerning the Subject of Aerial
Phenomena and UFOs
ART BELL INTERVIEW OF JOHN LEAR
11-2/3-03
INTRODUCTION:
John Lear, retired airline captain, with over 19,000
hours of flight-time, has flown in over 100 different
types of planes in 60 different counties around the
world.
Son of Lear Jet inventor, Bill Lear, John is the only
pilot to hold every FAA airplane certificate, to include
airplane transport rating, flight instructor, ground
instructor, flight navigator, engineer, aircraft
dispatcher, airframe powerplant mechanic, parachute
rigger, and tower operator.
He flew s-cret missions for the C-A in Central and
Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and
Africa between 1966 and 1983.
He has flown as Captain and check pilot for over
10 different airlines.
John held 17 world records including speed around
the world in a Lear Jet Model 24, set in 1966. He was
presented with the PATCO award for outstanding
airmanship in 1968, and the Symons Wave memorial. He
was the youngest American to climb the Matterhorn in
Switzerland in 1959 and in the 1970's owned and
skippered the Americas Cup boat, the Soliloquy, out
of Marina Del Rey.
In 1968, John raced a Douglas B26 Invader in the
unlimited class at the Reno air races.
He was a Senior Vice Commander of the China Post 1,
the American Legion Post for Soldiers of Fortune. He
is a 20 year member of the special operations
Association.
John is the current owner and operator of the only
permitted gold mine operation Cutthroat Mining
Corporation in Clarke County, Nevada. His efforts to
clean up the Treasure Hawk Gold Butte mine won him
the state of Nevada award for excellence in mining
reclamation in 1999.
John is a MSHA (Mine, Safety, and Health
Administration) and holds a blaster license from the
Nevada certified mining instructor from the Nevada
State Fire Marshall.
John's passion for the preservation and documentation
of the history of the Gold Butte has made him a
authority on the area.
John has been a resident of Las Vegas since 1994
and was a republican State Senate candidate in 1980.
John has 4 daughters, 2 grandchildren, and lives
with his wife in Las Vegas. - Las Vegas businesswoman,
Mary Lee Lear in Sunrise Manor.
In 1988, John met and became friends with Bob Lazar,
the g-vernment scientist who worked on the
back-engineering of the propulsion system of the
extraterrestrial UFOs at area S-4. That's just outside
the infamous and ultrase-ret Area 51.
In March 1989, Lazar took John to an area close to
Rachel Nevada where he witnessed the flight of a flying
saucer at the exact time Lazar told him it would occur.
Two weeks later on another UFO s-ying mission, John,
Lazar and 3 others were caught by s-curity forces -
(that's CAUGHT folks) - and the next day, - the very
next day - Lazar lost his job at the go-ernment program
for that breach of sec-rity. Lazar has been branded
by many as a fraud, a charge to which John responds,
"Those who say that Lazar was a fraud simply don't
know the facts of this incredible 12 month period. I
was there - they weren't."
During the late 1980's, John tracked down and
found the A-my Intelligence Analyst who read,
probably by accident, the U.S. gov-rnment report
Grudge 13, which documented the history of the
U.S. UFO coverup and details of saucer recoveries,
disposition of their occupants, and handling;
(That's HANDLING) of civilian witnesses.
The report included clear photographs of these
recovered extraterrestrial craft and beings -
(That's BEINGS) found inside. It further detailed
how recoveries were made worldwide and specially
designed transports to accommodate the craft.
John spent time poking around other UFO related
areas to include Dulce, Secora, Aztec, Alamagorda,
Albuquerque, Los Alamos and Bentwaters airbase
near London.
Since that time, John has learned many incredible
and interesting facts about the solar system and
planets including the existence of huge structures,
arches, bridges and domes on the moon, cities on
Mars, huge extraterrestrial ships mining the rings
of Saturn, the incredible but sec-et agenda of
Apollo 17, to the huge rectangular opening in the
south massif of the Taurus-Littrow Highlands called
Nansen.
Film Type: 70mm Date Taken: 12/12/72
Title: View of lunarscape at Station 4 with
Astronaut Schmitt working at LRV
A view of the lunarscape at Station 4 (Shorty
Crater) showing Scientist-Astronaut Harrison H.
Schmitt working at the lunar roving vehicle during
the second
">Apollo 17 extravehicular activity (EVA-2) at the
Taurus-Littrow landing site.
(Lunar landing site: 20.2 N, 30.8 E )
This is the area where Schmitt first spotted the
orange soil. Orange soil is clearly visible on either
side of the rover in this picture. Shorty Crater is
to the right. The peak in the center background is
Family Mountain. A portion of South Massif is on
the horizon at the left edge.
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/expmoon/Apollo17/A17_sampact.html
Apollo 17 samples)
NOTE: The Valley of Taurus-Littrow
The image linked
here is a portion of Pan Camera frame AS17-2309
showing the South Massif at the upper right and the
Sculptured Hills at the lower left. The North Massif
is at the bottom right and Henry Crater is the
rightmost of the three large craters in a triangular
pattern at the foot of the mountain. This orientation
is to facilitate comparison with features in the
Station 6 high resolution images below. See also the
labeled version of this frame. The distance from
Station 6 above Henry to the LM is 3.5 km; to Bear
Mountain, about 8 km; and to the outcrop noted in
21498 below, about 18 km. Scans by Ron Wells. Apollo
17 Pan Camera frame AS17-2309 Details The frame was
taken on December 11, 1972 at 23:47:38.1 GMT during
CSM Rev 15 from an altitude of 113.07 km. In terms
of the mission time, the photo was taken at 116:54:38
-- just seven minutes before Gene and Jack started
their watches for the first EVA. John Pfannerstill
has scanned three portions of the frame.
In the central area around the LM, the largest
crater is Camelot at the upper left. A labeled
version highlights the LM and Poppie. In the area
north of the LM, covering the EVA-3 traverse,
Henry is the large crater at the foot of the North
Massif just above and to the right of the center
of the image. In the area west of the LM, covering
the EVA-2 traverse, Nansen is at the lower left,
Camelot is at the right edge above center, and
Shorty is the sharp-rimmed, dark-edged crater at
top center, about a Camelot diameter below the top
edge of the image.
Composite Version
Art Bell continues John Lears biography:
John Lear suspects that Venus does not have the
sulfuric acid atmosphere with an 800 degree
temperature that we've all been led to believe and
instead is a planet very similar to ours, but with
a similar, but much more technologically advanced
civilization.
John Lear believes that the govern-ent has very
good reasons for their continued coverup but
refuses to discuss them.
He also believes that the governme-t never,
ever intends to released any UFO information and
if forced to say anything, will obscure, tangle
and weave a deceptive l-e.
Asked outright if the public has a right to
know these facts,
John says, "No! They don't!"
Why?
"Because!" was his admittedly evasive answer.
Then why, after 10 years of silence, is John
Lear talking once again, after almost 60 years,
the majority of U.S. population don't believe that
Roswell happened.
"I certainly do not represent a threat to this kind
of sec-rity", he responds.
xxxx
Start of Interview between Art Bell and John Lear:
A= Art Bell
J = John Lear
A - Other than the fact that we got in touch
once again John, I really am curious. Why! After
10 years, why break your silence now? and Welcome!
Part 1.
John Winston. johnfw@mlode.com
Subject: Lear Tells What's What. Part 2. Feb. 7, 2008.
This talks about 9-11.
.............................................///...........
...........................................................
J - Thank you Art, You mean I could have said, "No!" ?
A - laughs heartily - Yeah! Too late! laughs again.
Yeah! You could have said, No! Sure! I'm - I'm serious -
Why after 10 years of not a peep, why now?
J - Well you know, the g-vernment in charge of this
coverup, - uh - works so well at making your life
miserable when you go around talking about this stuff,
that I quit and my life - the quality of my life improved
about 200%. But now, the coverup is so well in place,
that they certainly would not be threatened by me going
on the radio just once and saying what I know.
A - Yeah! Well, you lost jobs because of this, right?
J - Yeah - I lost two. I lost one with an airline and
one with a go-ernment program that I really wanted. It
was with L-ckheed, and they went for my clearance and
they were told by the air-orce that now - under no
circumstances would John Lear ever get another
clearance. Now - I had a clearance up at the test site
for some work I did with Dyn-e-ectron - it was just
monitoring below ground tests from the air with
different airplane, but - uh - that clearance is still
there, - not active - but they weren't going to renew
it under any circumstances and they made it plain - so
its cost me a little bit, but I managed to survive.
A - Um - all right! You know - before we launch into
the whole spectrum of things we have to talk about
John, uh - when you and I were on the phone the other
day, you began to tell me about 9/11 and I'd really
would like to talk about that. Uh - you have a
perspective on the 9/11 thing that people should at
least hear. I mean - everybody can make up their own
minds about it, but you're a commercial pilot and
there are certain things you know. So how about it?
J - Well! This is a sensitive subject, and I told
you that I was hesitant to talk about it.
A - That's why I'm bringing it up first! (Art
laughs again)
J - But whoever concocted 9/11, and it certainly '
wasn't Osama Bin Ladin, they had two objectives -
one was to polarize American's opinion against
Arab-Muslims and number two was to get the U-ited
States - trick the U.S. - essentially to get Osama
out of Afghanistan because Osama - as bad as he was
- he was shutting down all the heroin poppy fields
and was causing a disastrous monetary loss to the
i-legal d-ug industry - and last year, which was a
year after we went into Afghanistan, National
Geographic did a special on TV, that ran for several
months and documented the 500% increase in dr-gs
flowing out of Afghanistan 'after' we went in there
and eliminated Osama.
A - laughs - They actually did. I recall that. I
remember that report! Um - so you are sort of
charging that we went in there after Osama - after
Osama to rescue the dru- trade?
J - No! Well - that wasn't what 'we' thought - we
were sort of tricked into doing that. We were tricked
into thinking that Osama was responsible for 9/11,
but to get a proper perspective on who 'did' the
World Trade Center - uh - you have to understand
what a magnificent feat of airmanship this was. It
was 'disastrous' and was horrible for this country,
but this was not accomplished by some guys who went
to Florida and got some instructions on a Cessna or
a Piper and this was not accomplished by somebody
who had a right seat on a 727.
A - What about simulators? Flight simulators?
J - This had to be accomplished by pilots who got
instruction - were taken to 'honest-to-G-d' Boeing
757 simulators which is - you know - the 757 and
767 the same ****pit essentially and you get the
same rating and whoever concocted this whole thing
knew that on a particular day that airplanes
themselves could be switched because of maintenance
problems and by selecting airlines that had that
airplane, they had everything covered.
A - Huh! So it actually took a fair amount of
skill to plow into those buildings?
J - I would say that it took about 200 or 300
hours for each pilot - and we're talking about . . .
A - 200 or 300 hours? But you mean of simulator
time?
J - Of simulator time! They had to learn how to
step into the ****pit - and that's a whole thing -
getting into the airplane, but that's separate
from that - they had to get into the ****pit and
pull the circuit breaker for the transponder -
sit in the pilot seat, disconnect the auto-pilot
from the flight management system - turn the
airplane, push the throttles all the way forward,
find Manhattan - then line up on a pre-planned
course - doing 10 miles a minute - they were
clocked by air traffic control doing 600 miles
an hour at 700 feet above the ground and fly
directly into the middle the center of the World
Trade Center. Now that - you know and the air
r-ces only fly 400 miles an hour and that's
difficult - but to fly an airliner like the size
of a 757 at 700 feet - I mean that took some
skill and that took a long time to train that -
probably a year.
A - That's wild (unintelligible)
J - In addition to that - hitting the Trade
Center was a feat - but hitting the P-ntagon was
even more of a feat because when you are going
that fast there is a tremendous amount of air
creating this lift and as you head towards the
ground, that air reacts against the wing and
pushes you up, so whoever - whoever hit that -
trained to hit the Pe-tagon at the 3rd story
was highly trained because when he came towards
the ground - there was a tremendous amount of
lift and you would have to trim forward and
push with an incredible amount of strength to
not be pushed up and over the Pen-agon to hit
the 3rd story.
A - But what about the plane that went down
that didn't make it - that was probably headed
towards the W-itehouse?
J - uh - Well that was shot down by an F-16 out
of a base south of New York and uh . . .
A - How can you be so sure?
J - Well because there were parts found 5 miles
away - uh - because there were eye-witnesses to
it being shot down - uh - there is corroborating
evidence somebody who was listening to a cell
phone conversation at the time this was going on
who said they heard the rapid - like the ...
described it as a pilot rapidly turning pages -
well - that's not what was happening - that was
the cannon fire hitting the fuselage and that's
what accounted for - what they called the 'smoke '
in the air in the cabin - well that wasn't smoke -
that was the depressurization causing the
condensation.
A - Well so you are saying definitely that you
feel it was shot down . . .
J - But you have to understand the go-ernments
position - #1 - they couldn't 'possibly' reveal
this information because - you know - it was
something they had to do - the problem was that
once the passengers got control of the airplane
there was no way to communicate with air traffic
control or communicate with whoever was directing
the attack for the airforce.
A - Now you say Osama Bin Ladin wasn't responsible
but there are video tapes showing Osama with his
Lieutenant sort of laughing and joking - they
didn't expect such a grand result and all that
baloney - what about that?
J - He might have been told at the last minute,
but if that's all we've got, people say 'how come
we haven't got him'? But the bottom line is, we
don't want to get Osama - we'd have to put him on
trial and other than that video tape, we don't
have a 'shred' - not a 'shred' of evidence against
him.
A - Uh huh! Yet, it might be enough in a court of
law!
J - In a world court?
A - You might be right! Well! Uh - I don't know -
You've shocked me with some of your views. on the
9/11 business. No question about that! 100's of
hours - Where would yhey get simulator training
like that? - that many hours . . .
J - Therein lies the problem. Because they
'certainly' couldn't waltz into any airline in
the Un-ted States and get that kind of time - I
mean most of the airlines in the US who have 757's
use them 24 hours a day and they certainly aren't
in the habit of renting - uh - to unauthorized
people like somebody going in there saying 'Hey!
give me 1500 hours of time" - Its just not going
to happen. They would have to find another 757
elsewhere in the world and if you look around
in the Middle-East and there's certainly none
there because at least not in any Arab Country
because they have airbusses - strictly airbusses -
They would have to find 757's somewhere else.
A - How many simulators are there?
J - Well! There are lots of them - but uh -
well - not lots of them - but there's certain
around somewhere and they'd have to make a deal
somewhere - obviously they got training because
they couldn't do it without training .
A - But what we've been given by the media -
by the mass media - you know - they were down
in Florida - getting a few hours on lighter
aircraft - that doesn't wash at all . . .
J - No possibility! If you talk to any pilot
that knows anything about this and that was -
and that was a feat with the (unintelligible)
with the benefit with 19,000 hours in all the
airplanes I've flown including air ra-es - the
Douglas B-26, I doubt that I could have done
that the 1st time . .
A - Really!
J - You are doing a mile every 6 seconds - so
you had to learn where to line up, you know ...
which reference points to get - you know -
where to be at a particular time hit that
building. It had to be planned for a long, long
time.
So this is a tremendous amount of skill, and it
took a long time to do, particularly you know -
they probably got somebody who didn't have
thousands of hours - they probably had to train
them from the ground up, and in this case it
was relatively easy because they didn't have to
learn how to take off and land - he didn't have
to learn how do a single engine approach - he
didn't have to learn to do a (unintelligible)
or MBD approach, or anything like that ...
A - Just hit a building ...
J - Yeah!
Part 2.
John Winston. johnfw@mlode.com