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Evangelism & Conversion Methods, you may not know about.


Missionaries employ various strategies to destroy other religions/cultures
and convert people to their religion/denomination. The exact strategy
deployed depends on the target population's situation. There are 7
categories of conversion methods: 1)Pre-evangelism 2)Personal Evangelism
3)Preaching Evangelism 4)Persuasion evangelism 5)Pastoral evangelism
6)Programmed evangelism 7)Prayer Evangelism. All the methods employed come
under atleast one of these categories though many come under multiple
categories. Here is the listing of the prominent methods employed.

Alluring Children with 'Gifts', 'Toys' & Pizza ( 2 items )
Toys with 'The Message' are given to children as gifts. A cube is very
popular among teenagers. EvangeCube -- It's a cube the size of a softball
made of eight interlocking blocks that flip and fold into the story of Jesus
Christ on some sides and messages from Bible denouncing the native religion.
This is very popular in Africa, Russia and Asia. In UK the school children
are asked to stuff shoe boxes with a gift to be sent to some African nation.
In US evangelicals clandestinely organize Pizza parties in schools.

$1 + Pray Jesus = $10 (Gospel of Wealth) ( 1 items )
Majority of the world is crazy for money & wealth. People are ready to
go to any extent to acquire wealth. Church is very successful is exploiting
this rage by telling people to donate (called invest) to God (i.e., their
Church) and pray. Church claims that God answers their prayers by returning
atleast 1000% of what people offer. When people don't get anything in return
they are told that their prayers aren't sufficient or $10+prayer will atmost
get him/her a bicycle not a Rolls-Royce. This is called the "Health and
Wealth" gospel in the U.S.A. - you give the church 10 percent of your gross
income, and God is obligated to miraculously provide for you. This idea is
big in Mormon and Pentecostal circles, and it's making strong inroads among
Baptists and "non-denominational" evangelicals. According to these
preachers, if you aren't rich and healthy, it's because you lack faith.
Uneducated, impoverished people are willing to try anything to get a good
life.

Business/Employment evangelism ( 2 items )
Many Christian employers and employers use employment to lure and many
times force a non-Christian into their sect of Christianity.

Communication Manipulation ( 3 items )
Communication is the key to evangelism. It is not what you say BUT
'HOW YOU SAY'.
Evangelists understand this concept better than anyone else. All the
missionaries are trained in Marketing and Journalism. Marketing techniques
are used to push their product (Jesus=Salvation; Other religions=Hell).
Journalistic techniques are used to spin their stories, manage media and
create stories about non-Christian religions

Confrontational Evangelism ( 4 items )

Controlling Influential Powers/Positions ( 8 items )
Evangelicals do not operate as hit-and-run operatives. Their ultimate
objective is to control everything in the world. Earlier Church used to
control everything including food, dressing, thinking and even sexual
positions (allowed only missionary position). Evangelicals in the present
day are trying to bring back their 'good-olden-days'. To achieve this they
need to hold all the powerful positions whether in Judiciary, Army, Politics
or Media. Here is a collection of news articles related to this strategy

Creating 'LEFT-BEHIND' fear ( 2 items )
This strategy works wonders on psychologically weak people.
Evangelical Christians believe that theirs is the only true religion. They
usually ask the non-Christians the question of 'What would be their fate in
case Christianity is the true religion and native religion is false?'.
Evangelicals then describe the fate of non-Christians in terms of hell, lake
of fire and blood-thirsty 'second coming of Jesus' etc and advise the
natives to play safe. Many psychologically weak non-Christians want to play
safe and convert out of fear of being 'LEFT-BEHIND'

Disaster Relief Exploitation ( 8 items )
Missionaries view disasters as a GOD send opportunity. They utilize
disasters in two ways
1)Disaster Relief: "This Tsunami(disaster) is one of the greatest
opportunities God has given us" says K P Yohannan, President of Gospel for
Asia. Many like him do not have objection to taking advantage of hurting and
suffering people are going through. In the name of disaster relief the
victim's basic needs such as food,clothing, housing, medical needs are
provided with a condition that they convert to Christianity.
2) Satan Propaganda: Missionaries claim that the disaster stuck their
region or village because God is angry with them. GOD is angry because
non-Christians worship devil and are under Satanic influence. Most of the
victims will be psychologically weak and under manipulatable conditions
because they lost their family members , property and undergoing depression.
According to Southern Baptist Convention's official guide on Evangelism: The
motivation behind Southern Baptist Disaster Relief efforts can be summed up
in one phrase:?A cup of cold water in Jesus? name.?

Education/Schools ( 12 items )
Education is a major strategy proven to work wonders in many poor
nations such as Africa, South America whereas it is a partial success in
India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan. Education evangelism comes in various shapes
and sizes. Primary schools, Vocational training, Nurse training, Music
lessons are prominent. In many regions such as Afghanistan and many Islamic
countries, Education though didn't help much in direct evangelism but helped
missionaries put their foot into unreached regions and establish contacts
with people. School work is an excellent mask for evangelical activities.

Guaranteed ticket to Heaven ( 0 items )
Sick and old people and told that if they convert, they (their bodies)
are guaranteed to go to heaven. Many Old and Sick people fall prey to this
technique and ask they family members to bury them along with their favorite
clothing & Jeweler. This technique is prevalent among Hindu converts and
Hindus cremate the bodies.

Jesus Wells ( 0 items )
Jesus Wells is a new and very popular technique prevalent in the dry
or poverty stricken parts of the world. In this technique a well is dug or a
hand pump is installed often using Government funds. In most of these places
people cannot afford to have their own wells dug and rely on community
wells/hand pumps which are far off.Only Christians are allowed to draw water
from these sources. A pastor monitors the usage of well throughout the day.
Click here for photos of Jesus wells

Miracles & Miracle-boxes ( 6 items )
"Come to church and get the miracle you need" is the slogan
representing this traditional game. Presently the game of Miracles is very
popular in third world countries and tribal regions. The primary condition
for Vatican to anoint somebody a saint is 'Proof of Miracles'. In poor
regions a missionary asks people to write their wishes like bicycle,
cassette player, bullock cart on a piece of paper and put in the wish-box. A
week after the Church from West with slush funds fulfils 'those' miracles.
Intelligentsia, rational and educated in west are abandoning church partly
due to such cheap games.

Music training & Programmes ( 1 items )
Give me the music of a nation, and I will change the mind of that
nation. said Plato.
Almost everybody in the world appreciates some form of music.
Evangelicals are very successful in 'Music Evangelism' wherein they lure
population by offering free guitar lessons and training in western dance and
music in return for conversion. High-school and college going youth are
particularly vulnerable to this strategy.

Public Relations(PR) Campaigns ( 5 items )
If there is anybody in the world who mastered the art of Public
Relations (PR), it is the Western Church. They remain unscathed irrespective
of the magnitude of crimes and genocides they commit. Their public relations
engine works throughout the day. Due to their PR campaigns many people
develop a larger than life view of missionaries and fall prey to their
nefarious activities.

Terrorism & Militancy ( 7 items )
North-East India is a living example of Church sponsored terrorism.
Tribes who refused to convert to Christianity are massacred. Baptist Church
of Nagaland is the command center of terrorism in Nagalim i.e., "Nagaland
for Christ"

Abduction/Kidnap ( 5 items )
Abduction was a very popular method employed on tribes. It was
Primarily employed on native tribes of Canada, America and Australia. This
strategy is still used but at a much smaller scale while ensuring secrecy

Academic/History Rewriting ( 1 items )
This strategy helps in generating a low opinion and delinking natives
from their native religions, cultures and traditions. Fredrich Max Muller,
Wendy Donniger, Paul Courtright, Jeffrey Kirpal etc are examples of these.
Max Muller claimed that "he will write/translate Upanishads in such a way
that no Hindu would ever respect them again". Jeffrey Kirpal established an
incestuous relationship between Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Vivekananda
whereas Paul Courtright calls Hindu Lord Ganesha a oral-sex obsessed
character.
A normal Hindu won't call himself a 'proud Hindu' after reading this
literature and often becomes an object of ridicule in his society. Though
many of these Scholars don't call themselves active missionaries they
successfully play part-1 of the missionary game i.e., delinking.

Alcoholism ( 1 items )
Missionaries brought alcohol and promoted alcoholism to many tribal
communities (example Polynesia/Tahiti). The leaders habituated to alcohol
did everything what missionaries said losing their entire communities to
Christianity.

Brainwashing/Hypnosis ( 1 items )
Conversion is a "nice" word for Brainwashing...and any study of
brainwashing has to begin with a study of Christian revivalism in eighteenth
century America. Apparently, Jonathan Edwards accidentally discovered the
techniques during a religious crusade in 1735 in Northampton, Massachusetts.
By inducing guilt and acute apprehension and by increasing the tension, the
"sinners" attending his revival meetings would break down and completely
submit. Technically, what Edwards was doing was creating conditions that
wipe the brain slate clean so that the mind accepts new programming. He
would tell those attending, "You're a sinner! You're destined for hell!"

Charity, Bribing and Buying souls ( 4 items )
Charity is the most popular technique employed currently. This
provides a very secular cover and insulates from all forms of questioning.
This is used primarily to place long-term missionaries. They take the form
of language teachers, social workers, AIDS/HIV workers etc.

Child Trafficking/Orphanages ( 2 items )
Though there a very few genuine Christian charity orphanages majority
of the orphanages springing up today are mainly centers of indoctrination.
They believe in the 'Catch them young' principle. Many orphanages claim that
they are building the future Christian workers.

Christian Ashrams & Sadhus ( 3 items )
Hindus have high respect for Ashrams (Hermitage) and Sadhus (Swamis).
Grasping the popularity Christians have started donning saffron robes and
look-alike ashrams. Many Hindus get fooled by those outward appearances and
become part of these ashrams. A good example is ShantiVanam Ashram run by
swindler Fr. Bede Griffiths. The place looks and feels like a Hindu ashram.
Fr. Bede Griffiths wears saffron robes, sports a vermillion mark and the
entire place reverberates with meditation and chanting. Behold everything
they utter is Jesus and Paul.

Contextualization/Inculturation ( 17 items )
Contextualization is the process of adoption the native culture,
practices and beliefs to make the non-Christians believe that they are not
in a different world. It is an infiltration technique. Hindus have 'Mangal
sutra', (a special type of chain) as part of the marriage ceremony. Not to
be left behind, Christians now offer it's equivalent 'Yesu - Sutra' in the
marriages. Every Hindu and Buddhist ritual have copycats now.

Converting Influential people ( 0 items )
This strategy involves converting influential people such as village
headman, politicians, Cine/theater artists, sportsmen etc employing an
appropriate conversion technique. These people act as brand managers of
Christianity influencing their followers. Recent examples include
politicians of TamilNadu, Andhra - India, various south Indian film actors
and heads of many villages.

Create "Artificial" Disasters ( 0 items )
Disaster relief is a successful and prove technique for mass
conversion. History tells us that even when no disaster existed missionaries
were successful in creating artificial disasters so as to control the
administration. A classic example is creation of "artificial famine" in
India in 1918-1919. The slang "Holy Cow" originated during that period

Create Guilt ( 1 items )
This strategy revolves around the idea of blaming the native religion
as the source of major problems. In 1975-1976 missionaries failed in all
their strategic attempts to convert Panare Indians of the Colorado Valley.
The missionaries re-edited the Bible saying "The Panare killed Jesus Christ
because they were wicked....God will burn you all, burn all the animals,
burn also the earth,the heavens, absolutely everything.He will burn also the
Panare themselves.". Panare Indians felt guilty of their ancestral crime and
converted to Christianity to avoid 'Revenge of Jesus'. This is currently
being used against Muslims. Muslims are told that Islam is the source of
extremism in the world and Muslims should come out of Islam to be
guilt-free.

Deceptive Church Buildings ( 0 items )
Churches which look like native religion structures. In Africa
churches look like mosques with a crescent like cross and are aptly names
Isa-mosque. In India and SriLanka 'Yesu Mandirs' (Jesus Temple) are quite
common. They look and feel like Hindu temples. This falls under deception
and contextualization main strategies. This strategy is working wonders in
Africa and rural areas in mid-east countries.

Denigration and Hate Spreading ( 10 items )
According to Christianity every non-Christian religion is a work of
Satan and every non-Christian worships Satan. These strategies are primarily
used to motivate their fellow missionaries and to create ill-will among
non-Christians about their religion

Divide & Conquer(convert) ( 1 items )
This is one of the most popular deceitful techniques employed
throughout the missionary history. Differences and enimity among individuals
are created or exploited in pitting one group against another. This is very
popular among tribes as it is very easy to generate enimity between two
clans. The British and American missionaries successfully employed this
technique in India by Horizontally and vertically dividing the Indian
society into Aryans and Dravidians, Dalits & non-Dalits. The "Missionary
Scholars" manufactured theories (without proof) supporting these divisions
with the help of some sold-out Indians.

Economic Success Deception ( 0 items )
In many third world and poor countries, missionaries advertise that
the West (America and Europe) are rich because of Christianity though the
truth is contrary. Many gullible people equate economic prosperity to
adoption of Christianity and convert. Mark Twain rightly said
The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and
progressive...but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church
has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to
our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin
because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step
in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and
superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in
architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born."

Excessive children/Armies of God\'s soldiers ( 1 items )
Many Christian families produce excessive number of children to be
brought up in a different fundamentalist cult like mentality. These kids
grown up in such restrictive and conditioned environment are expected to
carry forward and impose the fundamentalist mentality they are brought up
in. The pastor or father controls everything related to upbringing of the
children such as even picking the nail color the kids can use.

Exorcism ( 3 items )
Catholic church promotes the notion that the negative tendencies in
the world are due to Devils(imaginary creatures). How to get rid of Devils?.
Catholic church practices an occult medieval practice called Exorcism. When
a common man is in trouble, the local church clandestinely brainwashes the
gullible that Devils are source for all the ills and they have the solution
called 'Exorcism' to get rid of Satan/Devils. The common man under distress
easily falls into this trap

Exploiting the Prisoners ( 1 items )
Prisoners are usually at the mercy of jail officials. Evangelicals
usually take up employment in prisons or befriend prison officials.

FAKE MEDICAL CONDITIONS ( 0 items )
Fake medicines: This technique is very popular in rural India. In
mission hospitals a non-Christian patient is given a white tablet (not a
medicine) and asked to pray his Hindu God. After 1 day when the patient sees
no reprieve to his medical condition the patient is given a real medicine
and asked to pray Jesus. Hindu tradition respects any religion or any Godly
person. The healing by medicine is claimed for his prayer to Jesus.

Fake situations: This is a popular technique in Indian villages. This
is a true story which happened in 2003 in W Godavari Dist, Andhra Pradesh, .
A woman in labor was brought into a mission hospital. The doctor (a
Westerner) found that the lady is going to deliver in 10 minutes. The doctor
and the staff immediately made a big scene saying that the mother and baby
are in danger and the family was asked to pray. The family started praying
to their family deity Lord Venkateswara. In 2 minutes the doctor started
yelling that their prayers are useless and asked the family to join him in
praying Jesus and take a vow that if the mother delivers safely the entire
family would convert. As expected the mother delivered the baby after 8
minutes. He immediately put a chain (with cross) on the just born baby and
the entire family converted to keep their (deceived) promise.

Fear of "End of World" (Acocalypse) ( 3 items )
Missionaries brainwash and instill a fear that 'end-of-the-world' is
coming. Missionaries 'guarantee' heaven (as if they own that dreamland) to
converts and those who don't convert are cast in the 'Lake of Fire'.
Gullible,illiterate and weak fall prey to that concept and convert.
Earthquakes and recently Indian Ocean Tsunami were all marketed by
missionaries as a'divine wrath and warning from GOD' for not converting

Fear of death or Slavery ( 0 items )
This was a prominent technique employed on North and South American
natives.
An enterprising European official sailed to the Central American
mainland in 1514 in search of Gold and to convert natives. They adopted a
very simple approach.
They traveled by night, stopping at midnight outside a chosen village.
Before they entered, they declared loudly: "Princes and Indians, there is
one God, one pope, and one king of Castile, who is lord of this country.
Come at once and render him obedience, or we will make war on you, kill you,
and put you into slavery."
Natives for the fear of death and slavery immediately accepted
Christianity. Currently South America has the most populous Christian
nations.

Fooling non-Christians to do missionary work ( 1 items )

Fooling people with yigal mesika magic products ( 1 items )
Yigal Mesika makes products such as 'Electric Touch' primarily for
magicians. Christianity's origin lies in unnatural and miracles and people,
primarily in third world are fooled with these products. People in the
developing countries such as Africa, India, Nepal etc., have never heard of
these products. Missionaries use these and fool people to think that they
have supernatural powers to gain converts.

Free houses or agricultural land ( 2 items )
Missionaries often buy souls by promising and sometimes providing free
housing or agricultural land to poor. In many instances pastors cheat by
luring free housing on a future data which never sees light.

GENOCIDES ( 3 items )
The Vatican-sponsored Croatian Ustashe regime is famous for the death
camp records it set during the Nazi genocides. Native tribes of Canada do
not have a sympathetic ear. Wiccans, Native Americans, Natives of South
America are a few examples

Government support ( 2 items )
Many repressive states around the world force people to choose the
religions they recognize. South Korea, China, Indonesia, Russia are some
such countries. Earlier a converted ruler used to force the entire
population to change the religion.

Healing ( 5 items )
This is a major fraud committed on weak minds.Benny Hinn is a
modern-leader in this field

Learn a trade and lose your soul ( 0 items )
Many churches operating also as self-help groups teach a skill to
women if they join the Church (convert). Many Muslim women seems to have
converted in Bangladesh in return for learning quilt making.

Luring students with on campus programmes ( 1 items )
Many evangelical groups such as 'Campus Crusade' organize sports
events, study programmes, study-abroad programmes, free books etc to convert
people. Converts get special benefits as on-site coordinators, scholarships
etc which are very tempting to impoverished students.

MANHUNT ( 0 items )
MANHUNT, involves the missionaries going out, sometimes in motorized
vehicles, hunting for natives to integrate them into reservations set up for
missionary work. The New Tribes Mission (NTM), for instance, went on such a
manhunt in Paraguay. Five missionized natives were killed in one such
manhunt. Those unconverted natives were taken to the NTM camp in Campo Loro.
Within a short while, according to Survival International, all had died of
new diseases they had no immunity to. Stung by criticism, the best reply the
NTM 's Director in Paraguay could muster was: "We don't go after people
anymore. We just provide transport."

Marriage/Family Pressure ( 3 items )
This is a very popular technique among middle-class families. In a
marriage involving a non-Christian bride (often against her family's
wishes), the Christian family assures that they do no have any objection
with girl's religion. Within weeks of marriage the Christian family declares
that the girl's religion is not acceptable to them giving the newly wed girl
two options i.e., conversion to Christianity or divorce. In order to save
her marriage the girl often converts. Many marriage counselors in India
report a significant rise in such cases. Unable to bear the torture in many
instances the girl commits suicide. Read the experiences of Sanal Edamaraku.

Medical/Hospital Evangelism ( 3 items )
Evangelism in hospitals and by medical staff is a very popular
mechanism in under-developed or developing countries. Usually patients and
their family would be in a state of distress and ready to do anything to
get out the hardship. Hospital staff exploit this weakness and convert
people fooling them that conversion would help them recover lost health

MINI/MICRO LOANS ( 1 items )
A very popular technique among sub-urban regions wherein the
pastor/father gives a small amount as a loan. Often the native is asked to
repay when he is not in a position to payback (ex: crop dumpling phase etc).
The other option given to the farmer is conversion to christianity.

PERSECUTION GAME ( 4 items )
Missionaries always keep up the ante that 'Christians around the world
are persecuted because of their beliefs'. Are Christians really persecuted
in India? Persecution game is played to gain sympathy, extract dollars from
western sources and ward off any potential opposition to their sinster
activity. Part of this process was creation of USCIRF (US Commission for
Internation Religious Freedom) which is supposed to monitor persecution of
christians around the world but it won't look at the heinous crimes
committed by christians. Check All India Christian Council (the nodal
organisation of all christian entities). The website is titled 'Christian
Persecution IndiaPaul Kurtz analyses the movie The Passion was made as a
political weapon.

Pesticide Evangelism ( 0 items )
A local pastor tells the small and illiterate farmers that ordinary
well water blessed by Church kills pests. As pesticides are expensive, a
small farmer trying to save money takes a bucket of water to Church. The
Christian priest acting as if he is blessing well water with 'sacred water'
drops pesticide into the bucket of well water. The poor farmer takes the
'blessed water' and sprinkles on the crop thereby killing the pests. Such
incidents are widely reported in northern Uttar pradesh, India

Police and Police Stations ( 1 items )
Police and Police stations are fast becoming agents of conversion.
Police threaten the society to convert or face the brunt.

Promoting political activities ( 1 items )
Evangelicals form political groups or atleast a pressure group.
Sensing the power of such groups that too the ones supported by western
powers many more people convert into Christianity for their personal and
political gains. South Korea is a text book for this practice.

Scaring with Hell house/fear evangelism ( 2 items )
Christian-themed haunted houses/hell-houses are very popular in US.
According to a conservative estimate there are atleast 1000 such houses in
US. These houses are extremely graphic and reverberate with scary sounds
reproducing Christian definition of Hell. These houses serve dual purpose
ie., income generation through ticket sales and bringing in more converts as
many convert due to fear.

Scripture Manipulation ( 3 items )
Evangelicals are masters in manipulating their scriptures as well as
non-Christian scriptures. They are promoting and funding theories that
Hinduism evolved (though 5000+ years old) evolved from Christianity,
Buddhism civilized itself by adapting Christian thoughts and Islam was
created by Vatican Church to promote it's vested interests.

TORTURE ( 0 items )
The word Inquisition explains the strategy called 'Torture' in
handling 'heretics'. The cost of torture and burning was paid by the victim
or his/her relatives. Torture is justified in Bible"
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is
withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are
burned" ? John (15:6)

Weakening a person\'s psyche ( 0 items )
Students are the primary victims of this trick. Missionaries wait
outside the examination center and handout a Christian pamphlet or a photo
of Jesus and tell the students to keep it in their pockets. Students are
also told that in case they fail to do so they may be cursed and fail in the
examinations. Out of fear students usually keep these in their pockets.
Once graduated students are constantly brainwashed that because of keeping
Jesus' photos they passed and if they abandon the same anytime in life their
life will be ruined.

Many medical students keep bibles under their pillow out of fear as
medical school examinations are considered to be the toughest.
 
In article <13l0vihoi0o9ue5@corp.supernews.com>, "Ghamph"
<ghamph@localnet.com> wrote:

> Evangelism & Conversion Methods, you may not know about.
>
>
> Missionaries employ various strategies to destroy other religions/cultures
> and convert people to their religion/denomination. The exact strategy
> deployed depends on the target population's situation. There are 7
> categories of conversion methods: 1)Pre-evangelism 2)Personal Evangelism
> 3)Preaching Evangelism 4)Persuasion evangelism 5)Pastoral evangelism
> 6)Programmed evangelism 7)Prayer Evangelism. All the methods employed come
> under atleast one of these categories though many come under multiple
> categories. Here is the listing of the prominent methods employed.
>
> Alluring Children with 'Gifts', 'Toys' & Pizza ( 2 items )
> Toys with 'The Message' are given to children as gifts. A cube is very
> popular among teenagers. EvangeCube -- It's a cube the size of a softball
> made of eight interlocking blocks that flip and fold into the story of Jesus
> Christ on some sides and messages from Bible denouncing the native religion.
> This is very popular in Africa, Russia and Asia. In UK the school children
> are asked to stuff shoe boxes with a gift to be sent to some African nation.
> In US evangelicals clandestinely organize Pizza parties in schools.
>
> $1 + Pray Jesus = $10 (Gospel of Wealth) ( 1 items )
> Majority of the world is crazy for money & wealth. People are ready to
> go to any extent to acquire wealth. Church is very successful is exploiting
> this rage by telling people to donate (called invest) to God (i.e., their
> Church) and pray. Church claims that God answers their prayers by returning
> atleast 1000% of what people offer. When people don't get anything in return
> they are told that their prayers aren't sufficient or $10+prayer will atmost
> get him/her a bicycle not a Rolls-Royce. This is called the "Health and
> Wealth" gospel in the U.S.A. - you give the church 10 percent of your gross
> income, and God is obligated to miraculously provide for you. This idea is
> big in Mormon ...
 
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:20:18 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
wrote:
 
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:ra23l39sdu07g58h39kfv949g1tdr6vup1@4ax.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:20:18 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
> wrote:
>
 
x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:34:55 -0500, "Ghamph" <ghamph@localnet.com>
wrote:
 
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