Guest $27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Petrol must now include biofuels All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at least 2.5% biofuels. These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, have been added to fuel sold around the country. This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change how cars work. But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more greenhouse gases than they save. Negative effects The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is to reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced more than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be outweighed by negative effects from their production. For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced clearance from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm oil. The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are produced sustainably Jim Fitzpatrick Transport Minister The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops from food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to produce bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for a protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government not to go ahead with the new rules. 'Total disarray' But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the next few years. HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly doesn't benefit the poorer countries around the world David, Harrogate "The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are produced sustainably," he said. Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. "We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental impacts," he said. Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". "The government has embarked on a course which endangers food security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could increase climate change emissions," he said. Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon dioxide emissions Tony Bosworth Friends of the Earth "It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast swaths of rainforest in the name of the environment." Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory emissions limits on cars. Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said biofuels would not help the environment. "The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we believe they're a false solution," he said. "In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon dioxide emissions." A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ouroboros_Rex Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 $27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto wrote: You wrote this, did you, thief? lol > Petrol must now include biofuels > > All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at > least 2.5% biofuels. > > These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, > have been added to fuel sold around the country. > > This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making > transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change how > cars work. > > But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more > greenhouse gases than they save. > > Negative effects > > The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is to > reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced more > than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using > renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. > > But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be outweighed > by negative effects from their production. > > > For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced clearance > from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm oil. > > The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are > produced sustainably > Jim Fitzpatrick > Transport Minister > > The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops from > food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to produce > bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. > > Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for a > protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government > not to go ahead with the new rules. > > 'Total disarray' > > But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing > biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the > next few years. > > HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly doesn't > benefit the poorer countries around the world > > David, Harrogate > > "The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are > produced sustainably," he said. > > Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report > publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. > > "We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are > satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental > impacts," he said. > > Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's > policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". > > "The government has embarked on a course which endangers food > security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could > increase climate change emissions," he said. > > Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon dioxide > emissions > Tony Bosworth > Friends of the Earth > > "It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria the > Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast swaths > of rainforest in the name of the environment." > > Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from > transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be > tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory > emissions limits on cars. > > Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said biofuels > would not help the environment. > > "The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's > going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we > believe they're a false solution," he said. > > "In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut > carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon dioxide > emissions." > > A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 > people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their > vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest $27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 On Apr 15, 10:37 am, "Ouroboros_Rex" <i...@casual.com> wrote: > $27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto wrote: > > You wrote this, did you, thief? lol > > Oops! Forgot the attribution, it comes from the BBC. BTW, the EU just announced "they don't care what happens to food prices" they are hell-bent on biofuel production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tunderbar Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 On Apr 15, 6:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tunderbar Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 On Apr 15, 6:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Siobhan Medeiros Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 On Apr 15, 10:53 am, Tunderbar <tdcom...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 15, 6:45 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" > > > > <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Petrol must now include biofuels > > > All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at > > least 2.5% biofuels. > > > These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, > > have been added to fuel sold around the country. > > > This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making > > transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change how > > cars work. > > > But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more > > greenhouse gases than they save. > > > Negative effects > > > The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is to > > reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced more > > than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using > > renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. > > > But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be outweighed > > by negative effects from their production. > > > For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced clearance > > from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm oil. > > > The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are > > produced sustainably > > Jim Fitzpatrick > > Transport Minister > > > The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops from > > food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to produce > > bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. > > > Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for a > > protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government > > not to go ahead with the new rules. > > > 'Total disarray' > > > But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing > > biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the > > next few years. > > > HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly doesn't > > benefit the poorer countries around the world > > > David, Harrogate > > > "The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are > > produced sustainably," he said. > > > Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report > > publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. > > > "We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are > > satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental > > impacts," he said. > > > Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's > > policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". > > > "The government has embarked on a course which endangers food > > security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could > > increase climate change emissions," he said. > > > Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon dioxide > > emissions > > Tony Bosworth > > Friends of the Earth > > > "It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria the > > Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast swaths > > of rainforest in the name of the environment." > > > Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from > > transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be > > tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory > > emissions limits on cars. > > > Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said biofuels > > would not help the environment. > > > "The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's > > going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we > > believe they're a false solution," he said. > > > "In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut > > carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon dioxide > > emissions." > > > A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 > > people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their > > vehicles. > > And ethanol can't be shipped by pipeline, it has to be shipped by > tanker powered by diesel or gasoline, which spews guess what: CO2, > into the atmosphere. Corn based ethanol saves 10 units of CO2 for every 7 used to produce it. Sugar cane ethanol saves 8 units of CO2 for every 1 used to produce it. If we are successful in making ethanol out of algae, we could potentially save 20 units of CO2 for every unit used in production. Don`t believe everything the petroleum industry tells you. Source: National Geographic, February 2008 issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ouroboros_Rex Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 $27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto wrote: > On Apr 15, 10:37 am, "Ouroboros_Rex" <i...@casual.com> wrote: >> $27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto wrote: >> >> You wrote this, did you, thief? lol >> >> > > Oops! Forgot the attribution, it comes from the BBC. > BTW, the EU just announced "they don't care what happens to food > prices" they are hell-bent on biofuel production. From food crops? Be nice to see a cite for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ouroboros_Rex Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Tunderbar wrote: > On Apr 15, 6:45 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" > <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Petrol must now include biofuels >> >> All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at >> least 2.5% biofuels. >> >> These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, >> have been added to fuel sold around the country. >> >> This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making >> transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change how >> cars work. >> >> But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more >> greenhouse gases than they save. >> >> Negative effects >> >> The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is to >> reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced more >> than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using >> renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. >> >> But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be outweighed >> by negative effects from their production. >> >> For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced clearance >> from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm oil. >> >> The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >> produced sustainably >> Jim Fitzpatrick >> Transport Minister >> >> The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops from >> food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to produce >> bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. >> >> Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for a >> protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government >> not to go ahead with the new rules. >> >> 'Total disarray' >> >> But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing >> biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the >> next few years. >> >> HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly >> doesn't benefit the poorer countries around the world >> >> David, Harrogate >> >> "The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >> produced sustainably," he said. >> >> Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report >> publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. >> >> "We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are >> satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental >> impacts," he said. >> >> Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's >> policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". >> >> "The government has embarked on a course which endangers food >> security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could >> increase climate change emissions," he said. >> >> Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon dioxide >> emissions >> Tony Bosworth >> Friends of the Earth >> >> "It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria the >> Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast swaths >> of rainforest in the name of the environment." >> >> Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from >> transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be >> tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory >> emissions limits on cars. >> >> Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said biofuels >> would not help the environment. >> >> "The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's >> going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we >> believe they're a false solution," he said. >> >> "In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut >> carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon dioxide >> emissions." >> >> A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 >> people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their >> vehicles. > > To make ethanol the grains are crushed and fermented. Doesn't have to be food crops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tunderbar Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 On Apr 15, 1:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ouroboros_Rex Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 "Tunderbar" <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e9c05e59-117a-48f4-836c-7996943b919d@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com... On Apr 15, 1:12 pm, Siobhan Medeiros <sbm2...@shaw.ca> wrote: > On Apr 15, 10:53 am, Tunderbar <tdcom...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Apr 15, 6:45 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" > > > <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Petrol must now include biofuels > > > > All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at > > > least 2.5% biofuels. > > > > These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, > > > have been added to fuel sold around the country. > > > > This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making > > > transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change how > > > cars work. > > > > But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more > > > greenhouse gases than they save. > > > > Negative effects > > > > The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is to > > > reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced more > > > than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using > > > renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. > > > > But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be outweighed > > > by negative effects from their production. > > > > For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced clearance > > > from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm oil. > > > > The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are > > > produced sustainably > > > Jim Fitzpatrick > > > Transport Minister > > > > The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops from > > > food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to produce > > > bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. > > > > Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for a > > > protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government > > > not to go ahead with the new rules. > > > > 'Total disarray' > > > > But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing > > > biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the > > > next few years. > > > > HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly doesn't > > > benefit the poorer countries around the world > > > > David, Harrogate > > > > "The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are > > > produced sustainably," he said. > > > > Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report > > > publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. > > > > "We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are > > > satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental > > > impacts," he said. > > > > Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's > > > policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". > > > > "The government has embarked on a course which endangers food > > > security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could > > > increase climate change emissions," he said. > > > > Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon dioxide > > > emissions > > > Tony Bosworth > > > Friends of the Earth > > > > "It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria the > > > Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast swaths > > > of rainforest in the name of the environment." > > > > Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from > > > transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be > > > tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory > > > emissions limits on cars. > > > > Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said biofuels > > > would not help the environment. > > > > "The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's > > > going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we > > > believe they're a false solution," he said. > > > > "In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut > > > carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon dioxide > > > emissions." > > > > A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 > > > people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their > > > vehicles. > > > And ethanol can't be shipped by pipeline, it has to be shipped by > > tanker powered by diesel or gasoline, which spews guess what: CO2, > > into the atmosphere. > > Corn based ethanol saves 10 units of CO2 for every 7 used to produce > it. Sugar cane ethanol saves 8 units of CO2 for every 1 used to > produce it. > > If we are successful in making ethanol out of algae, we could > potentially save 20 units of CO2 for every unit used in production. > > Don`t believe everything the petroleum industry tells you. > > Source: National Geographic, February 2008 issue.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - <Aren't corm and sugar cane food crops? Yep, guess your FOE buddy doesn't know what he's talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tunderbar Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 On Apr 15, 1:12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danny Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Ouroboros_Rex wrote: > Tunderbar wrote: > >>On Apr 15, 6:45 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >><rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Petrol must now include biofuels >>> >>>All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at >>>least 2.5% biofuels. >>> >>>These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, >>>have been added to fuel sold around the country. >>> >>>This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making >>>transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change how >>>cars work. >>> >>>But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more >>>greenhouse gases than they save. >>> >>>Negative effects >>> >>>The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is to >>>reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced more >>>than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using >>>renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. >>> >>>But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be outweighed >>>by negative effects from their production. >>> >>>For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced clearance >>>from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm oil. >>> >>>The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >>>produced sustainably >>>Jim Fitzpatrick >>>Transport Minister >>> >>>The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops from >>>food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to produce >>>bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. >>> >>>Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for a >>>protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government >>>not to go ahead with the new rules. >>> >>>'Total disarray' >>> >>>But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing >>>biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the >>>next few years. >>> >>>HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly >>>doesn't benefit the poorer countries around the world >>> >>>David, Harrogate >>> >>>"The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >>>produced sustainably," he said. >>> >>>Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report >>>publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. >>> >>>"We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are >>>satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental >>>impacts," he said. >>> >>>Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's >>>policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". >>> >>>"The government has embarked on a course which endangers food >>>security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could >>>increase climate change emissions," he said. >>> >>>Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon dioxide >>>emissions >>>Tony Bosworth >>>Friends of the Earth >>> >>>"It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria the >>>Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast swaths >>>of rainforest in the name of the environment." >>> >>>Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from >>>transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be >>>tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory >>>emissions limits on cars. >>> >>>Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said biofuels >>>would not help the environment. >>> >>>"The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's >>>going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we >>>believe they're a false solution," he said. >>> >>>"In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut >>>carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon dioxide >>>emissions." >>> >>>A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 >>>people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their >>>vehicles. >> >>To make ethanol the grains are crushed and fermented. > > > Doesn't have to be food crops. > > Doesn't have to be but mostly is. The FAO has asked that the practice be stopped. Millions of hectares of tropical forest are currently being cut in order to produce tropical oils for bio-diesel. It has been calculated that it will take 97 years for this diesel to make up for the CO2 vented from the burning forest. In general bio fuels are a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ouroboros_Rex Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 "danny" <user@example.net> wrote in message news:Gj8Nj.53802$Cj7.49999@pd7urf2no... > Ouroboros_Rex wrote: > >> Tunderbar wrote: >> >>>On Apr 15, 6:45 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >>><rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>Petrol must now include biofuels >>>> >>>>All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at >>>>least 2.5% biofuels. >>>> >>>>These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, >>>>have been added to fuel sold around the country. >>>> >>>>This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making >>>>transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change how >>>>cars work. >>>> >>>>But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more >>>>greenhouse gases than they save. >>>> >>>>Negative effects >>>> >>>>The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is to >>>>reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced more >>>>than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using >>>>renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. >>>> >>>>But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be outweighed >>>>by negative effects from their production. >>>> >>>>For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced clearance >>>>from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm oil. >>>> >>>>The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >>>>produced sustainably >>>>Jim Fitzpatrick >>>>Transport Minister >>>> >>>>The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops from >>>>food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to produce >>>>bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. >>>> >>>>Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for a >>>>protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government >>>>not to go ahead with the new rules. >>>> >>>>'Total disarray' >>>> >>>>But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing >>>>biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the >>>>next few years. >>>> >>>>HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly >>>>doesn't benefit the poorer countries around the world >>>> >>>>David, Harrogate >>>> >>>>"The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >>>>produced sustainably," he said. >>>> >>>>Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report >>>>publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. >>>> >>>>"We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are >>>>satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental >>>>impacts," he said. >>>> >>>>Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's >>>>policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". >>>> >>>>"The government has embarked on a course which endangers food >>>>security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could >>>>increase climate change emissions," he said. >>>> >>>>Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon dioxide >>>>emissions >>>>Tony Bosworth >>>>Friends of the Earth >>>> >>>>"It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria the >>>>Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast swaths >>>>of rainforest in the name of the environment." >>>> >>>>Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from >>>>transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be >>>>tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory >>>>emissions limits on cars. >>>> >>>>Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said biofuels >>>>would not help the environment. >>>> >>>>"The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's >>>>going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we >>>>believe they're a false solution," he said. >>>> >>>>"In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut >>>>carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon dioxide >>>>emissions." >>>> >>>>A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 >>>>people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their >>>>vehicles. >>> >>>To make ethanol the grains are crushed and fermented. >> >> >> Doesn't have to be food crops. > Doesn't have to be but mostly is. The FAO has asked that the > practice be stopped. Millions of hectares of tropical forest > are currently being cut in order to produce tropical oils for > bio-diesel. It has been calculated that it will take 97 years for > this diesel to make up for the CO2 vented from the burning forest. > In general bio fuels are a disaster. Only because of lack of regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danny Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Ouroboros_Rex wrote: > "danny" <user@example.net> wrote in message > news:Gj8Nj.53802$Cj7.49999@pd7urf2no... > >>Ouroboros_Rex wrote: >> >> >>>Tunderbar wrote: >>> >>> >>>>On Apr 15, 6:45 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" >>>><rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Petrol must now include biofuels >>>>> >>>>>All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at >>>>>least 2.5% biofuels. >>>>> >>>>>These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, >>>>>have been added to fuel sold around the country. >>>>> >>>>>This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making >>>>>transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change how >>>>>cars work. >>>>> >>>>>But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more >>>>>greenhouse gases than they save. >>>>> >>>>>Negative effects >>>>> >>>>>The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is to >>>>>reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced more >>>>>than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using >>>>>renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. >>>>> >>>>>But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be outweighed >>>>>by negative effects from their production. >>>>> >>>>>For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced clearance >>>> >>>>>from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm oil. >>>> >>>>>The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >>>>>produced sustainably >>>>>Jim Fitzpatrick >>>>>Transport Minister >>>>> >>>>>The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops from >>>>>food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to produce >>>>>bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. >>>>> >>>>>Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for a >>>>>protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government >>>>>not to go ahead with the new rules. >>>>> >>>>>'Total disarray' >>>>> >>>>>But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing >>>>>biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in the >>>>>next few years. >>>>> >>>>>HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly >>>>>doesn't benefit the poorer countries around the world >>>>> >>>>>David, Harrogate >>>>> >>>>>"The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >>>>>produced sustainably," he said. >>>>> >>>>>Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report >>>>>publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. >>>>> >>>>>"We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are >>>>>satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental >>>>>impacts," he said. >>>>> >>>>>Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's >>>>>policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". >>>>> >>>>>"The government has embarked on a course which endangers food >>>>>security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could >>>>>increase climate change emissions," he said. >>>>> >>>>>Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon dioxide >>>>>emissions >>>>>Tony Bosworth >>>>>Friends of the Earth >>>>> >>>>>"It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria the >>>>>Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast swaths >>>>>of rainforest in the name of the environment." >>>>> >>>>>Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from >>>>>transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be >>>>>tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory >>>>>emissions limits on cars. >>>>> >>>>>Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said biofuels >>>>>would not help the environment. >>>>> >>>>>"The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's >>>>>going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we >>>>>believe they're a false solution," he said. >>>>> >>>>>"In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut >>>>>carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon dioxide >>>>>emissions." >>>>> >>>>>A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 >>>>>people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their >>>>>vehicles. >>>> >>>>To make ethanol the grains are crushed and fermented. >>> >>> >>> Doesn't have to be food crops. >> >>Doesn't have to be but mostly is. The FAO has asked that the >>practice be stopped. Millions of hectares of tropical forest >>are currently being cut in order to produce tropical oils for >>bio-diesel. It has been calculated that it will take 97 years for >>this diesel to make up for the CO2 vented from the burning forest. >>In general bio fuels are a disaster. > > > Only because of lack of regulation. If there was regulation most biofuel would not be produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Compassion Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 danny <user@example.net> wrote: > Doesn't have to be but mostly is. The FAO has asked that the > practice be stopped. Millions of hectares of tropical forest > are currently being cut in order to produce tropical oils for > bio-diesel. It has been calculated that it will take 97 years for > this diesel to make up for the CO2 vented from the burning forest. > Complete bullshit. Rain forest and Sugar Cane are not even grown in the same habitat. Provide a legitimate cite where forest is being burned. No surprise that you don't have a cite for your fairy tale. Is making things up all you're capable of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lucinda Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in news:608f1b39-a877-4a3e-90d1-08669c90b04d@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > Petrol must now include biofuels > > All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at > least 2.5% biofuels. I wonder how much ethanol could be made from the Afghan poppy crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyrone Cannon Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Lucinda <lucinda-@hotmail.com> wrote: > I wonder how much ethanol could be made from the Afghan poppy crop. > Bush is to blame for the government subsidies promoting ineficient corn for bio fuels, and his wars and exporting jobs to China are mostly to blame for high oil prices which contributed. All rightists are capable of is crying like babies and playing their usual blame games. Rightists are afraid of accountability because they are weak minded and dishonest cowards whose ideology is based on lies and depends on their gullibility. Maybe Limbaugh or Hannity will whip his cock out for a lucky few of them so they can suck it like a baby and stop their incessant whining. The gutless, racist, selfish and incompetent radical reactionary rightists have no right to govern no more than their NeoNazi brethren do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Poetic Justice Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Lucinda wrote: > "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in > news:608f1b39-a877-4a3e-90d1-08669c90b04d@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > >> Petrol must now include biofuels >> >> All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at >> least 2.5% biofuels. > > I wonder how much ethanol could be made from the Afghan poppy crop. How much fuel can you make from a starving Somali? There will be millions and a few in Darfur too. You might get an additional ECO-LAW passed to force the use of humans that have no food due to the "now has to include at least 2.5% biofuels" laws. If your going to create the death, then you need to be eco-friendly about the bio-waste disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ellis@no.spam Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 "Tunderbar" <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote in message news:8aaa983f-ffbe-4ff3-ae81-71db5af99cc6@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com... On Apr 15, 6:45 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: > Petrol must now include biofuels > > All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include > at > least 2.5% biofuels. > > These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, > have been added to fuel sold around the country. > > This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making > transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change > how > cars work. > > But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more > greenhouse gases than they save. > > Negative effects > > The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is > to > reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced > more > than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using > renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. > > But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be > outweighed > by negative effects from their production. > > For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced > clearance > from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm > oil. > > The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are > produced sustainably > Jim Fitzpatrick > Transport Minister > > The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops > from > food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to > produce > bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. > > Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for > a > protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government > not to go ahead with the new rules. > > 'Total disarray' > > But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing > biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in > the > next few years. > > HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly > doesn't > benefit the poorer countries around the world > > David, Harrogate > > "The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are > produced sustainably," he said. > > Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report > publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. > > "We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are > satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental > impacts," he said. > > Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's > policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". > > "The government has embarked on a course which endangers food > security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could > increase climate change emissions," he said. > > Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon > dioxide > emissions > Tony Bosworth > Friends of the Earth > > "It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria > the > Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast > swaths > of rainforest in the name of the environment." > > Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from > transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be > tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory > emissions limits on cars. > > Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said > biofuels > would not help the environment. > > "The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's > going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we > believe they're a false solution," he said. > > "In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut > carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon > dioxide > emissions." > > A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 > people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their > vehicles. > To make ethanol the grains are crushed and fermented. Fermentation > produces guess what: CO2. Then it is distilled which requires > energy. > Ya gotta burn something, either plant material or natural gas or > fossil fuels which produce guess what: CO2. In the meantime, the > third The plant needs CO2 in order to survive, CO2 is less than 0.02% on the surface of the earth, it's part of 21% makup of OXYGEN. So, I'm not going to worry about Gore's crying wolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lucinda Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com> wrote in news:MfeNj.36076$Er2.16239@bignews6.bellsouth.net: > Lucinda wrote: >> "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in >> news:608f1b39-a877-4a3e-90d1-08669c90b04d@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: >> >>> Petrol must now include biofuels >>> >>> All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at >>> least 2.5% biofuels. >> >> I wonder how much ethanol could be made from the Afghan poppy crop. > > How much fuel can you make from a starving Somali? There will be That reads like the lead-in to a really bad joke. > millions and a few in Darfur too. You might get an additional ECO-LAW > passed to force the use of humans that have no food due to the "now has > to include at least 2.5% biofuels" laws. > > If your going to create the death, then you need to be eco-friendly > about the bio-waste disposal. > I fail to see what buying the poppy crop, and turning it into fuel, rather than heroin, has to do with starvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Poetic Justice Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Lucinda wrote: > Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com> wrote in > news:MfeNj.36076$Er2.16239@bignews6.bellsouth.net: > >> Lucinda wrote: >>> "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in >>> news:608f1b39-a877-4a3e-90d1-08669c90b04d@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: >>> >>>> Petrol must now include biofuels >>>> >>>> All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include at >>>> least 2.5% biofuels. >>> I wonder how much ethanol could be made from the Afghan poppy crop. >> How much fuel can you make from a starving Somali? There will be > > That reads like the lead-in to a really bad joke. > >> millions and a few in Darfur too. You might get an additional ECO-LAW >> passed to force the use of humans that have no food due to the "now has >> to include at least 2.5% biofuels" laws. >> >> If your going to create the death, then you need to be eco-friendly >> about the bio-waste disposal. >> > > I fail to see what buying the poppy crop, and turning it into fuel, rather > than heroin, has to do with starvation. > > It's a drag having to point out the obvious..... I know a Liberal when one pipes up. Food crops will be turned into fuel, now drugs could be turned into fuel, basically we could turn all the crops into fuel and start burning people as fuel to relieve the burden on the crop yield, since people will be starving to death anyways. The point is that Liberal Eco-nut laws will create unintended consequence and then you'll need some new stupid LAW to pile on top of that law to try to correct the other stupid LAW and on and on and on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.fried Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 ellis@no.spam schrieb: > "Tunderbar" <tdcomeau@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:8aaa983f-ffbe-4ff3-ae81-71db5af99cc6@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 15, 6:45 am, "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" > <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Petrol must now include biofuels >> >> All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include >> at >> least 2.5% biofuels. >> >> These renewable fuels, made from crops such as sugar cane or maize, >> have been added to fuel sold around the country. >> >> This target will rise to 5% by 2010. The move is aimed at making >> transport fuels more environmentally friendly and will not change >> how >> cars work. >> >> But some scientists and green groups say biofuels contribute more >> greenhouse gases than they save. some biofuels yes - don't trust the oil lobbies >> >> Negative effects >> >> The idea behind the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) is >> to >> reduce climate change emissions from transport - which produced >> more >> than a quarter of overall greenhouse gases in the UK - by using >> renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels. >> >> But some critics say the biofuels' carbon benefits may be >> outweighed >> by negative effects from their production. you may do it wrong yes- but on average its positive. You may also stop eating meat or stop buying junk and throw it away in some months- all produces more CO2 than it should... >> >> For example Oxfam said millions of indigenous people faced >> clearance >> from their land to make way for biofuel plantations such as palm >> oil. ridiculous - those countries are not allowed to export food so they concentrate on fuel its not a biofuel but an economic problem - how to create value added in those countries. And yes stop speculation, now! forever! >> >> The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >> produced sustainably Look at the US what they invest in researching ethanol from hemicellulosis - thaty way better than Europe performs! >> Jim Fitzpatrick >> Transport Minister >> >> The aid agency is also concerned that the switch to energy crops >> from >> food production - including a large-scale drive in the US to >> produce >> bioethanol from maize - is contributing to rising food prices. yes but not the biofuel production is evil but the gas guzzlers! >> >> Oxfam joined campaigners from Friends of the Earth and the RSPB for >> a >> protest outside Parliament on Monday aimed at urging the government >> not to go ahead with the new rules. What do they propose ? tell me what car you drive and I tell you what character you are! >> >> 'Total disarray' >> >> But Transport Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said gradually introducing >> biofuels could help save millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide in >> the >> next few years. >> >> HAVE YOUR SAY This might benefit the environment; it certainly >> doesn't >> benefit the poorer countries around the world >> >> David, Harrogate >> >> "The UK has done more than any other country to make sure they are >> produced sustainably," he said. >> >> Mr Fitzpatrick said fuel suppliers would be required to report >> publicly on the sustainability of the biofuels they provide. great but try this with exxon, shell.... >> >> "We will not increase biofuels targets beyond 5% unless we are >> satisfied this can be done without damaging the environmental >> impacts," he said. Once more - its not the 5% which is the problem but the absolute value - if we cuts consumption to 1/3 - and yes this is possible - 5% are much more feasible! >> >> Shadow Environment Secretary Peter Ainsworth said the government's >> policy on biofuels was in "total disarray". >> >> "The government has embarked on a course which endangers food >> security, threatens poverty, damages natural habitats and could >> increase climate change emissions," he said. >> >> Some of the biofuels they're using could lead to more carbon >> dioxide >> emissions again some - and some oil tankers have incidents and spoil the sea shore... >> Tony Bosworth >> Friends of the Earth >> >> "It is utter madness that without proper sustainability criteria >> the >> Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation threatens to destroy vast >> swaths >> of rainforest in the name of the environment." nobody wants this - but have a look at the forests in Europe- What do those guys do to replant? It's a shame that in most of Europe we have completely destroyed the woods for ship building charcoal centuries ago and also wetlands. Start to populate Europe with trees as it was 3000 years before! >> >> Friends of the Earth has demanded that greenhouse gases from >> transport, which account for about 28% of overall emissions, be >> tackled by investing in better public transport and mandatory >> emissions limits on cars. yes ride bicycles! >> >> Friends of the Earth transport campaigner Tony Bosworth said >> biofuels >> would not help the environment. >> >> "The government is introducing these fuels because they think it's >> going to help cut climate change emissions from transport, but we >> believe they're a false solution," he said. they are a solution if we cut the demand to 1/3 >> >> "In many cases some of the biofuels which they're using won't cut >> carbon dioxide emissions and could indeed lead to more carbon >> dioxide >> emissions." some yes >> >> A survey for Friends of the Earth suggested almost nine out of 10 >> people did not know that renewable fuels would be required in their >> vehicles. no problem 7.5% Ethanol was fixed in the fuel standards, so should be no problem (yous may try to got to 15%) and with Biodiesel you may blend up to 30%. watch http://www.greenfleet.info > >> To make ethanol the grains are crushed and fermented. Fermentation >> produces guess what: CO2. Then it is distilled which requires >> energy. from grain? this was yesterday! >> Ya gotta burn something, either plant material or natural gas or >> fossil fuels which produce guess what: CO2. In the meantime, the >> third > > > The plant needs CO2 in order to survive, CO2 is less than 0.02% on > the surface of the earth, it's part of 21% makup of OXYGEN. So, I'm > not going to worry about Gore's crying wolf. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lucinda Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com> wrote in news:OYeNj.36098$Er2.17643@bignews6.bellsouth.net: > Lucinda wrote: >> Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-Dog.com> wrote in >> news:MfeNj.36076$Er2.16239@bignews6.bellsouth.net: >> >>> Lucinda wrote: >>>> "$27 TRILLION to pay for Kyoto" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in >>>> news:608f1b39-a877-4a3e-90d1-08669c90b04d@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.c >>>> om: >>>> >>>>> Petrol must now include biofuels >>>>> >>>>> All petrol and diesel which is sold at UK pumps now has to include >>>>> at least 2.5% biofuels. >>>> I wonder how much ethanol could be made from the Afghan poppy crop. >>> How much fuel can you make from a starving Somali? There will be >> >> That reads like the lead-in to a really bad joke. >> >>> millions and a few in Darfur too. You might get an additional >>> ECO-LAW passed to force the use of humans that have no food due to >>> the "now has to include at least 2.5% biofuels" laws. >>> >>> If your going to create the death, then you need to be eco-friendly >>> about the bio-waste disposal. >>> >> >> I fail to see what buying the poppy crop, and turning it into fuel, >> rather than heroin, has to do with starvation. >> >> > > It's a drag having to point out the obvious..... > I know a Liberal when one pipes up. > Clearly, divination of political affinity isn't your forte. > Food crops will be turned into fuel, now drugs could be turned into > fuel, basically we could turn all the crops into fuel and start > burning people as fuel to relieve the burden on the crop yield, since > people will be starving to death anyways. And.as we all know, the obesity pandemic is being engineered by evil agents of the liberal agenda to fatten us up so we'll burn with sufficient energy to power that death-ray they've been working on. > The point is that Liberal Eco-nut laws will create unintended > consequence and then you'll need some new stupid LAW to pile on top of > that law to try to correct the other stupid LAW and on and on and on. > In this case - diverting food crops into the production of ethanol, and promoting laws to force its use as a fuel additive - it's the agribusiness lobby and their puppets in government who are to blame, not liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr.Smartypants Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 On Apr 15, 12:53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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