Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

By MATTHEW HICKLEY

When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

shield to detect and deter any intruders.

That is the theory.

Or, rather, was the theory.

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

4,500 personnel on board.

By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

in the U.S. Navy.

The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

threat.

One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

aircraft or submarines.

And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

coincidence.

___________________________________________

My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

Harry

Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in

news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com:

>

> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_art

> icle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>

> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>

> By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>

>

> When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

> security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>

> At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

> wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

> shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>

> That is the theory.

>

> Or, rather, was the theory.

>

> American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

> Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

> and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

> 4,500 personnel on board.

>

> By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

> submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

> launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>

> According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

> in the U.S. Navy.

>

> The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

> reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

> threat.

>

> One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

> launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

> satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>

> The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

> Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>

> The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

> warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

> aircraft or submarines.

>

> And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

> least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>

> According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

> re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

> the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>

> It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

> diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

> fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

> coincidence.

>

> ___________________________________________

>

> My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

Watch this space for the usual "It's all Clinton's fault" tirades.

Mitchell Holman wrote:

> Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in

> news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com:

>

>> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_art

>> icle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>>

>> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

>> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>>

>> By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>>

>>

>> When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

>> security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>>

>> At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

>> wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

>> shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>>

>> That is the theory.

>>

>> Or, rather, was the theory.

>>

>> American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

>> Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

>> and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

>> 4,500 personnel on board.

>>

>> By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

>> submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

>> launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>>

>> According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

>> in the U.S. Navy.

>>

>> The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

>> reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

>> threat.

>>

>> One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

>> launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

>> satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>>

>> The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

>> Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>>

>> The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

>> warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

>> aircraft or submarines.

>>

>> And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

>> least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>>

>> According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

>> re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

>> the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>>

>> It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

>> diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

>> fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

>> coincidence.

>>

>> ___________________________________________

>>

>> My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

Why would this be Bush's fault?

> Watch this space for the usual "It's all Clinton's fault" tirades.

Why would this be Clinton's fault?

Gentlemen, the Chinese have been aggressively pursuing better military

technology for many years, that they have advanced their capabilities is the

logical outcome of this effort.

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com...

>

> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>

> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>

> By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>

>

> When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

> security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>

> At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

> wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

> shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>

> That is the theory.

>

> Or, rather, was the theory.

>

> American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

> Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

> and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

> 4,500 personnel on board.

>

> By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

> submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

> launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>

> According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

> in the U.S. Navy.

>

> The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

> reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

> threat.

>

> One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

> launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

> satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>

> The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

> Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>

> The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

> warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

> aircraft or submarines.

>

> And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

> least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>

> According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

> re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

> the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>

> It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

> diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

> fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

> coincidence.

>

> ___________________________________________

>

> My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>

> Harry

Those cunning Chinese have invented a stealthy submarine and now the whole

world knows. Commercial fishing fleets worldwide should be notified as these

under water boats can snag nets and occasionally cause sinkings as happened

during the cold war several times.

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com...

>

> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>

> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>

> By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>

>

> When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

> security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>

> At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

> wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

> shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>

> That is the theory.

>

> Or, rather, was the theory.

>

> American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

> Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

> and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

> 4,500 personnel on board.

>

> By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

> submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

> launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>

> According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

> in the U.S. Navy.

>

> The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

> reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

> threat.

>

> One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

> launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

> satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>

> The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

> Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>

> The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

> warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

> aircraft or submarines.

>

> And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

> least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>

> According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

> re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

> the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>

> It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

> diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

> fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

> coincidence.

>

> ___________________________________________

>

> My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>

> Harry

======================================

Democrats Cutting the Military Budget is to blame.

Sixty-seven Democrats who voted in March for a Progressive Caucus

amendment to the budget resolution (H Con Res 99) that would cut defense

spending by 21 percent and shift the money to domestic priorities

successfully lobbied the Appropriations Committee this summer to add their

local projects to the defense-spending measure (HR 3222), which the House

passed Aug. 5. They obtained $485 million worth of programs not sought by

the military, including missile launchers, blimps and self-inflating sleep

pads, according to data compiled by Taxpayers for Common Sense, a

nonpartisan research group.

Among these hypocrites are Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, Barney Frank, Jim

McDermott, John Lewis, and Keith Ellison. Republican members too are

grabbing slices of pork but, as CQ notes, "unlike so many of their

Democratic colleagues, the GOP members did not do so while condemning the

Pentagon budget as inflated."

"Mitchell Holman" <Noemail@comcast.com> wrote in message

news:Xns99E544A1BA77ta2eene2@216.196.97.131...

> Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in

> news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com:

>

>>

>> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_art

>> icle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>>

>> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

>> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>>

>> By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>>

>>

>> When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

>> security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>>

>> At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

>> wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

>> shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>>

>> That is the theory.

>>

>> Or, rather, was the theory.

>>

>> American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

>> Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

>> and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

>> 4,500 personnel on board.

>>

>> By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

>> submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

>> launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>>

>> According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

>> in the U.S. Navy.

>>

>> The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

>> reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

>> threat.

>>

>> One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

>> launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

>> satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>>

>> The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

>> Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>>

>> The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

>> warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

>> aircraft or submarines.

>>

>> And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

>> least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>>

>> According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

>> re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

>> the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>>

>> It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

>> diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

>> fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

>> coincidence.

>>

>> ___________________________________________

>>

>> My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>

>

>

> Watch this space for the usual "It's all Clinton's fault" tirades.

==========================================

Clinton Seeking $14 Billion Cut By the Military

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CEEDC1331F937A35751C0A965958260

"Mike Hunt" <Has anyone seen mike hunt @ aol .com> wrote in

news:47370742$0$27007$7836cce5@newsrazor.net:

>

> "Mitchell Holman" <Noemail@comcast.com> wrote in message

> news:Xns99E544A1BA77ta2eene2@216.196.97.131...

>> Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in

>> news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com:

>>

>>>

>>> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_a

>>> rt icle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>>>

>>> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

>>> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>>>

>>> By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>>>

>>>

>>> When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

>>> security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>>>

>>> At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

>>> wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

>>> shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>>>

>>> That is the theory.

>>>

>>> Or, rather, was the theory.

>>>

>>> American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

>>> Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

>>> and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

>>> 4,500 personnel on board.

>>>

>>> By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

>>> submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

>>> launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>>>

>>> According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

>>> in the U.S. Navy.

>>>

>>> The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

>>> reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

>>> threat.

>>>

>>> One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

>>> launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

>>> satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>>>

>>> The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

>>> Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>>>

>>> The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

>>> warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

>>> aircraft or submarines.

>>>

>>> And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

>>> least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>>>

>>> According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

>>> re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

>>> the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>>>

>>> It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

>>> diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

>>> fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

>>> coincidence.

>>>

>>> ___________________________________________

>>>

>>> My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>>

>>

>>

>> Watch this space for the usual "It's all Clinton's fault" tirades.

>

> ==========================================

> Clinton Seeking $14 Billion Cut By the Military

> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CEEDC1331F937A35751C0A9

> 65958260

Taking a page from a previous president, no doubt.

"We will shut down production of the B-2 bomber. We will

cancel the ICBM program. We will cease production of new

warheads for our sea-based missiles. We will stop all

production of the peacekeeper missile. And we will not

purchase any more advanced cruise missiles. We will

eliminate all Peacekeeper missiles. We will reduce the

number of warheads on Minuteman missiles to one and

reduce the number of warheads on our sea-based missiles

by about one-third. And we will convert a substantial

portion of our strategic to primarily conventional use."

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

George Bush, 1992 SOTU speech.

On Nov 11, 7:46 am, Mitchell Holman <Noem...@comcast.com> wrote:

> Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote innews:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com:

>

>

>

>

>

> > From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in...

> > icle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>

> > The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

> > exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>

> > By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>

> > When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

> > security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>

> > At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

> > wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

> > shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>

> > That is the theory.

>

> > Or, rather, was the theory.

>

> > American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

> > Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

> > and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

> > 4,500 personnel on board.

>

> > By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

> > submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

> > launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>

> > According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

> > in the U.S. Navy.

>

> > The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

> > reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

> > threat.

>

> > One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

> > launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

> > satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>

> > The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

> > Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>

> > The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

> > warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

> > aircraft or submarines.

>

> > And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

> > least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>

> > According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

> > re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

> > the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>

> > It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

> > diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

> > fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

> > coincidence.

>

> > ___________________________________________

>

> > My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>

> Watch this space for the usual "It's all Clinton's fault" tirades.

How about a rich dude named BILL GATES who wants to have UNLIMITED H1B

VISAS FOR THE HI TECH LABOR "SHORTAGE" (SIC)?

Is anyone wondering how many of our defense secrets are quietly being

shipped back "home" by these folks??

Citizen Jimserac

On Nov 11, 7:20 am, Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in...

>

> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>

> By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>

> When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

> security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>

> At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

> wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

> shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>

> That is the theory.

>

> Or, rather, was the theory.

>

> American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

> Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

> and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

> 4,500 personnel on board.

>

> By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

> submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

> launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>

> According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

> in the U.S. Navy.

>

> The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

> reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

> threat.

>

> One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

> launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

> satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>

> The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

> Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>

> The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

> warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

> aircraft or submarines.

>

> And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

> least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>

> According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

> re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

> the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>

> It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

> diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

> fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

> coincidence.

>

> ___________________________________________

>

> My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>

> Harry

SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone want to mention the role of Bush industry and job outsourcings

to foreign countries? How about those H1B Visa workers -> like that

Hong Kong chap who was quietly bringing defense secrets back "home"

from his job in the U.S.

Ya, that's it, let's have UNLIMITED H1B Visas says Bill Gates, cuz of

the hi-tech labor "shortage" (guffaws and derisive laughter).

HOW MANY of these foreign workers are shipping information back

"home". HOW MANY? And HOW MANY U.S. servicepeople are going to be

KILLED in the next war because of it.

HOW'S THAT FOR HOMELAND SECURITY?

Citizen Jimserac

Harry Hope wrote:

>

> Or, rather, was the theory.

>

> American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

> Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

> and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

> 4,500 personnel on board.

>

> By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

The US military is fully aware of this sub and this failure once again

prove how utterly incompetent the US military has become.

"The improved variant deleted the stepped conning tower of the first

unit, resulting in an appearance like that of the French Agosta-90B. A

coating of anechoic tiles is believed to have been added to reduce the

acoustic signature while submerged. There is unconfirmed speculation

that future units might be fitted with an AIP system which may have been

tested onboard a Ming class SS.

According to some reports, two units were in afloat as of 1997, and two

or three additional units under construction, though subsequent reports

confirmed that only one unit was actually active by 1999. Two more boats

(321 and 322) were laid down at Wuhan Shipyard within a year after the

launch of the first boat. The second unit was extensively modified due

to serious problems encountered onboard the first boat. This second unit

was launched in late 1999, a year later than originally anticipated, and

was formally commissioned in 2001.

As of late 2003 at least three Songs are in service with at least two

additional units under construction. The 2nd 039G (322) was believed to

be undergoing sea trial in late 2002. Since then at least three new

hulls were launched at Wuhan Shipyard and one more was being built at

Jiangnan Shipyard."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/song.htm

On 3 June 2004, Wuhan Shipbuilding Industry Company revealed a further

improved variant Type 039G1. Since then at least six hulls (324, 314,

315, 316, 318, and 327) of this design have been launched in Wuhan and

two more in Shanghai-based Jiangnan Shipyard, indicating that the

submarine design had been finalised and the series production was underway.

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/sub/type039song.asp

When the only superpower in the world can lose an entire fleet to these

little subs you know you're in trouble.

--

Impeach Bush

http://zzpat.bravehost.com/

Impeach Search Engine:

http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=012146513885108216046:rzesyut3kmm

"Citizen Jimserac" <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1194789742.531944.16630@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

> On Nov 11, 7:46 am, Mitchell Holman <Noem...@comcast.com> wrote:

>> Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote

>> innews:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> > From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

>> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in...

>> > icle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>>

>> > The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

>> > exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>>

>> > By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>>

>> > When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

>> > security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>>

>> > At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

>> > wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

>> > shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>>

>> > That is the theory.

>>

>> > Or, rather, was the theory.

>>

>> > American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

>> > Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

>> > and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

>> > 4,500 personnel on board.

>>

>> > By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

>> > submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

>> > launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>>

>> > According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

>> > in the U.S. Navy.

>>

>> > The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

>> > reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

>> > threat.

>>

>> > One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

>> > launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

>> > satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>>

>> > The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

>> > Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>>

>> > The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

>> > warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

>> > aircraft or submarines.

>>

>> > And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

>> > least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>>

>> > According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

>> > re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

>> > the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>>

>> > It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

>> > diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

>> > fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

>> > coincidence.

>>

>> > ___________________________________________

>>

>> > My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>>

>> Watch this space for the usual "It's all Clinton's fault" tirades.

>

> How about a rich dude named BILL GATES who wants to have UNLIMITED H1B

> VISAS FOR THE HI TECH LABOR "SHORTAGE" (SIC)?

>

> Is anyone wondering how many of our defense secrets are quietly being

> shipped back "home" by these folks??

>

> Citizen Jimserac

>

Ok that sounds disconcerting but people who can write decent wireless PCMCIA

drivers for Linux and present the OS as non geekware would deflate the

Richmond monopolist a bit.

The sad thing is that the majority of people refuse fervently to see the

world of computing in binary but rather as jpegs, mp3's and mpegs or any

other file extension that will remove cash from their ovine pockets.

CPU producers go on to expand the myth, like duel processing; of limited use

to a small minority of users yet enabling the predictable increase in 'must

have' marketing and accompanied prices.

Mr Gates started his career by ripping off an operating system (DOS) from

another guy and remarketing it as (Windows) so despite his worldwide fame I

would not trust his views on International visas.

Computing tech has come to a stop with Gates just where he likes it, when is

the much awaited release of IPV6 due FFS

Mitchell Holman wrote:

> Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in

> news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com:

>

>

>>From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

>>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_art

>>icle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>>

>>The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

>>exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>>

>>By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>>

>>

>>When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

>>security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>>

>>At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

>>wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

>>shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>>

>>That is the theory.

>>

>>Or, rather, was the theory.

>>

>>American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

>>Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

>>and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

>>4,500 personnel on board.

>>

>>By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

>>submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

>>launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>>

>>According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

>>in the U.S. Navy.

>>

>>The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

>>reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

>>threat.

>>

>>One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

>>launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

>>satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>>

>>The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

>>Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>>

>>The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

>>warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

>>aircraft or submarines.

>>

>>And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

>>least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>>

>>According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

>>re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

>>the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>>

>>It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

>>diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

>>fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

>>coincidence.

>>

>>___________________________________________

>>

>>My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>

>

>

>

> Watch this space for the usual "It's all Clinton's fault" tirades.

>

I don't think we need to worry. The interior of the Chinese sub was

painted with lead paint.

On Nov 11, 10:20 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:

> "Citizen Jimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>

> news:1194789742.531944.16630@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>

> > On Nov 11, 7:46 am, Mitchell Holman <Noem...@comcast.com> wrote:

> >> Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote

> >> innews:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com:

>

> >> > From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

> >> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in...

> >> > icle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>

> >> > The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

> >> > exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>

> >> > By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>

> >> > When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

> >> > security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>

> >> > At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical

> >> > wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

> >> > shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>

> >> > That is the theory.

>

> >> > Or, rather, was the theory.

>

> >> > American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

> >> > Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise

> >> > and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with

> >> > 4,500 personnel on board.

>

> >> > By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

> >> > submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

> >> > launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>

> >> > According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

> >> > in the U.S. Navy.

>

> >> > The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

> >> > reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

> >> > threat.

>

> >> > One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

> >> > launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting

> >> > satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>

> >> > The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and

> >> > Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>

> >> > The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

> >> > warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

> >> > aircraft or submarines.

>

> >> > And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at

> >> > least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>

> >> > According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

> >> > re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders reconsider

> >> > the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>

> >> > It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

> >> > diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S.

> >> > fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

> >> > coincidence.

>

> >> > ___________________________________________

>

> >> > My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>

> >> Watch this space for the usual "It's all Clinton's fault" tirades.

>

> > How about a rich dude named BILL GATES who wants to have UNLIMITED H1B

> > VISAS FOR THE HI TECH LABOR "SHORTAGE" (SIC)?

>

> > Is anyone wondering how many of our defense secrets are quietly being

> > shipped back "home" by these folks??

>

> > Citizen Jimserac

>

> Ok that sounds disconcerting but people who can write decent wireless PCMCIA

> drivers for Linux and present the OS as non geekware would deflate the

> Richmond monopolist a bit.

>

> The sad thing is that the majority of people refuse fervently to see the

> world of computing in binary but rather as jpegs, mp3's and mpegs or any

> other file extension that will remove cash from their ovine pockets.

>

> CPU producers go on to expand the myth, like duel processing; of limited use

> to a small minority of users yet enabling the predictable increase in 'must

> have' marketing and accompanied prices.

>

> Mr Gates started his career by ripping off an operating system (DOS) from

> another guy and remarketing it as (Windows) so despite his worldwide fame I

> would not trust his views on International visas.

>

> Computing tech has come to a stop with Gates just where he likes it, when is

> the much awaited release of IPV6 due FFS

Well said! I dream of the day when, as Bill Gates and his pal Ted

Kennedy appear somewhere, they are BOOED off the stage by outraged

American workers and military people who understand the full

implications of the endangerment of their ideas to our country.

Citizen Jimserac

"Citizen Jimserac" <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1194798488.916550.149670@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

> On Nov 11, 10:20 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:

>> "Citizen Jimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:1194789742.531944.16630@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> > On Nov 11, 7:46 am, Mitchell Holman <Noem...@comcast.com> wrote:

>> >> Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote

>> >> innews:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com:

>>

>> >> > From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

>> >> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in...

>> >> > icle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>>

>> >> > The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

>> >> > exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>>

>> >> > By MATTHEW HICKLEY

>>

>> >> > When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the

>> >> > security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

>>

>> >> > At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the

>> >> > technical

>> >> > wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible

>> >> > shield to detect and deter any intruders.

>>

>> >> > That is the theory.

>>

>> >> > Or, rather, was the theory.

>>

>> >> > American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected

>> >> > Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific

>> >> > exercise

>> >> > and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier

>> >> > with

>> >> > 4,500 personnel on board.

>>

>> >> > By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack

>> >> > submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for

>> >> > launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

>>

>> >> > According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation

>> >> > in the U.S. Navy.

>>

>> >> > The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had

>> >> > reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a

>> >> > threat.

>>

>> >> > One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians

>> >> > launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first

>> >> > orbiting

>> >> > satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

>>

>> >> > The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan

>> >> > and

>> >> > Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

>>

>> >> > The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American

>> >> > warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile

>> >> > aircraft or submarines.

>>

>> >> > And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes

>> >> > at

>> >> > least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

>>

>> >> > According to the NATO source, the encounter has forced a serious

>> >> > re-think of American and NATO naval strategy as commanders

>> >> > reconsider

>> >> > the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

>>

>> >> > It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American

>> >> > diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the

>> >> > U.S.

>> >> > fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as

>> >> > coincidence.

>>

>> >> > ___________________________________________

>>

>> >> > My goodness, did the Bushies leave us that vulnerable?

>>

>> >> Watch this space for the usual "It's all Clinton's fault" tirades.

>>

>> > How about a rich dude named BILL GATES who wants to have UNLIMITED H1B

>> > VISAS FOR THE HI TECH LABOR "SHORTAGE" (SIC)?

>>

>> > Is anyone wondering how many of our defense secrets are quietly being

>> > shipped back "home" by these folks??

>>

>> > Citizen Jimserac

>>

>> Ok that sounds disconcerting but people who can write decent wireless

>> PCMCIA

>> drivers for Linux and present the OS as non geekware would deflate the

>> Richmond monopolist a bit.

>>

>> The sad thing is that the majority of people refuse fervently to see the

>> world of computing in binary but rather as jpegs, mp3's and mpegs or any

>> other file extension that will remove cash from their ovine pockets.

>>

>> CPU producers go on to expand the myth, like duel processing; of limited

>> use

>> to a small minority of users yet enabling the predictable increase in

>> 'must

>> have' marketing and accompanied prices.

>>

>> Mr Gates started his career by ripping off an operating system (DOS) from

>> another guy and remarketing it as (Windows) so despite his worldwide fame

>> I

>> would not trust his views on International visas.

>>

>> Computing tech has come to a stop with Gates just where he likes it, when

>> is

>> the much awaited release of IPV6 due FFS

>

> Well said! I dream of the day when, as Bill Gates and his pal Ted

> Kennedy appear somewhere, they are BOOED off the stage by outraged

> American workers and military people who understand the full

> implications of the endangerment of their ideas to our country.

>

> Citizen Jimserac

>

That is the problem with the military in the UK at least, they pull in

recruits that want to learn a trade with computers yet the highest

aspiration for then seems to be the same as an office worker in that if it

blue screens then call a tech guy.

The bad guys are VERY computer literate so the Bill Gates ethos needs

dropping yesterday.

On Nov 11, 6:04 am, David Hartung <dhart...@quixnetnone.net> wrote:

> Why would this be Clinton's fault?

>

> Gentlemen, the Chinese have been aggressively pursuing better military

> technology for many years, that they have advanced their capabilities is the

> logical outcome of this effort.

If Clinton hadn't sold them all our military secrets, they would have

never been able to get this close.

Tartarus

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 10:26:46 -0800, Tartarus <tartarus@rome.com>

wrote:

>On Nov 11, 6:04 am, David Hartung <dhart...@quixnetnone.net> wrote:

>

>> Why would this be Clinton's fault?

>>

>> Gentlemen, the Chinese have been aggressively pursuing better military

>> technology for many years, that they have advanced their capabilities is the

>> logical outcome of this effort.

>

>If Clinton hadn't sold them all our military secrets, they would have

>never been able to get this close.

>

>Tartarus

But Clinton! But Clinton! But Clinton!

Whine! SNIVELLLLL!!

--

What do you call a Republican with a conscience?

An ex-Republican.

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)

"I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has

become. I just can

On Nov 11, 1:26 pm, Tartarus <tarta...@rome.com> wrote:

> On Nov 11, 6:04 am, David Hartung <dhart...@quixnetnone.net> wrote:

>

> > Why would this be Clinton's fault?

>

> > Gentlemen, the Chinese have been aggressively pursuing better military

> > technology for many years, that they have advanced their capabilities is the

> > logical outcome of this effort.

>

> If Clinton hadn't sold them all our military secrets, they would have

> never been able to get this close.

>

> Tartarus

The name of our current problem is GEORGE BUSH.

Got it?

Citizen Jimserac

Tartarus wrote:

> On Nov 11, 6:04 am, David Hartung <dhart...@quixnetnone.net> wrote:

>

>> Why would this be Clinton's fault?

>>

>> Gentlemen, the Chinese have been aggressively pursuing better military

>> technology for many years, that they have advanced their capabilities is the

>> logical outcome of this effort.

>

> If Clinton hadn't sold them all our military secrets, they would have

> never been able to get this close.

I am no fan of Bill Clinton, but I am not aware that he sold them any submarine

technology.

On Nov 11, 12:06 pm, David Hartung <dhart...@quixnetnone.net> wrote:

> Tartarus wrote:

> > On Nov 11, 6:04 am, David Hartung <dhart...@quixnetnone.net> wrote:

>

> >> Why would this be Clinton's fault?

>

> >> Gentlemen, the Chinese have been aggressively pursuing better military

> >> technology for many years, that they have advanced their capabilities is the

> >> logical outcome of this effort.

>

> > If Clinton hadn't sold them all our military secrets, they would have

> > never been able to get this close.

>

> I am no fan of Bill Clinton, but I am not aware that he sold them any submarine

> technology.

He sold them all of our military secrets.

Tartarus

Tartarus wrote:

> On Nov 11, 12:06 pm, David Hartung <dhart...@quixnetnone.net> wrote:

>> Tartarus wrote:

>>> On Nov 11, 6:04 am, David Hartung <dhart...@quixnetnone.net> wrote:

>>>> Why would this be Clinton's fault?

>>>> Gentlemen, the Chinese have been aggressively pursuing better military

>>>> technology for many years, that they have advanced their capabilities is the

>>>> logical outcome of this effort.

>>> If Clinton hadn't sold them all our military secrets, they would have

>>> never been able to get this close.

>> I am no fan of Bill Clinton, but I am not aware that he sold them any submarine

>> technology.

>

> He sold them all of our military secrets.

Evidence?

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com...

> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

Wrong.

It "was several miles away,"

http://www.sinodaily.com/reports/Chinese_Sub_Approached_US_Aircraft_Carrier_Undetected_999.html

Patriot Games wrote:

> "Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

> news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com...

>> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>>

>> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

>> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>

> Wrong.

>

> It "was several miles away,"

> http://www.sinodaily.com/reports/Chinese_Sub_Approached_US_Aircraft_Carrier_Undetected_999.html

This puts things in an entirely different light.

"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnetnone.net> wrote in message

news:Vv2dnTUeZN6mAaXanZ2dnUVZ_rHinZ2d@comcast.com...

> Patriot Games wrote:

>> "Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

>> news:gssdj35l0599rv63325i1oihblo33lb4oi@4ax.com...

>>> From The Daily Mail, 11/10/07:

>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

>>> The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy

>>> exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

>> Wrong.

>> It "was several miles away,"

http://www.sinodaily.com/reports/Chinese_Sub_Approached_US_Aircraft_Carrier_Undetected_999.html >

This puts things in an entirely different light.

Not mentioned (even by the Pentagon statement) is the distinct possibility

that if we alerted our fleet to the presence of the sub WHEN we detected it

we would ALSO be alerting the Chinks to our detecting capabilities.....

As it stands now the Chinks have absolutely no idea how far away they were

when we detected them - and we like that way.