Criminal Beaners Often Die Anonymously But Cost Taxpayers Thousands to Bury

P

Patriot Games

Guest
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr01/0,4670,ImmigrantNo8,00.html

Illegal Immigrants Often Die Anonymously
Tuesday, April 01, 2008

BLANDING, Utah - The foreigner is buried in a small-town cemetery, against
a barbed-wire fence in an unmarked plot set aside for poor people.

He might be Mexican. He might be Guatemalan. But he's simply called No. 8, a
man with no name because his identity is still unknown, a year after he was
killed in a car wreck with seven other illegal immigrants in southeastern
Utah.

"This is the Garden of Eden of Utah down here," said Philip Palmer,
coordinator at Blanding City Cemetery, referring to the mountain peaks in
four states visible from the graveyard. "It's a good place to put him."

More than 2,000 illegal immigrants have died in the Southwest since 2002,
and many are nameless in death _ buried as anonymous victims of heat stroke,
car crashes or other calamities.

They typically carry no ID, just the clothes on their back and the dream of
a life better than the one they left behind.

"They're filling our morgues," said Todd Matthews of Livingston, Tenn., who
works for the Doe Network, a volunteer organization that helps law
enforcement with unidentified remains.

More than half of the border-crossing deaths in the Southwest since 2002
have occurred in Arizona's Pima County, which includes Tucson, on the
Arizona-Mexico border.

Bruce Anderson, a forensic anthropologist in Tucson, said a quarter of the
victims there lack names. Many remains are little more than bleached bone
after a few days in the sun, making them almost impossible to identify.

"They die in the middle of nowhere," Anderson said. "Most Americans die in
their car, in their house, or with somebody they know."

In the case of No. 8, he apparently died in Utah among strangers.

It's unknown when or how he entered the country. But on the night of April
15, 2007, he piled into a sport utility vehicle in Phoenix, joining 13 other
people for a trip to St. Louis.

They crossed the Arizona-Utah state line at 3:30 a.m. At some point, the
driver drifted out of his lane, overcorrected and lost control of the
vehicle, sending it spinning onto its side.

The SUV rolled several times, and seven passengers were thrown from it.
Eight people, all illegal immigrants, were killed.

The driver, Rigoberto Salas-Lopez, told agents he was paid $1,000 to drive
the group. He pleaded guilty to transporting illegal aliens resulting in
death and will be sentenced June 5 in federal court in Salt Lake City.

The body of No. 8 was transported more than 300 miles north to the Utah
medical examiner's office in Salt Lake City, where doctors took
fingerprints, photographs and samples from his body. But prospects for
identifying him became increasingly bleak.

"You can have a very fresh body, and still the person is unidentifiable
because there are no leads as to who they might be," said Dr. Todd Grey, the
state's chief medical examiner. "There's certainly not going to be a missing
person's report filed."

Virginia Kice, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said
agents worked with the Mexican and Guatemalan consulates. The bodies of
three other unknown crash victims were eventually identified and sent home
for burial, but No. 8 remained.

In Salt Lake City, the Mexican Consulate fed information from the medical
examiner into a database but learned nothing. In Denver, the Guatemalan
Consulate met the same result.

Experts said DNA will be the key to solving difficult cases in the future.

Lori Baker at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, has been building a DNA
database since 2003. With DNA samples from Pima County, Ariz., and
cooperation from the Mexican government, she has identified more than 70
dead illegal immigrants.

The process relies on relatives in Mexico telling authorities they haven't
heard from a loved one who was expected to cross the border. If they provide
a blood sample, Baker runs it through her database to compare it to samples
on file.

At a minimum, Baker hopes to develop a "genetic map" using indicators within
DNA that could help identify someone's native country.

"What we're hoping is that by having this genetic profile and then having
information from Mexico, we can say, 'Well, this person doesn't look to be
Mexican _ genetically, they look to be Guatemalan,'" she said.

But to many coroners, the DNA process seems expensive and the technology
intimidating, Baker said.

By last fall, No. 8's body had been in Salt Lake City for six months. No
family members had stepped up to claim a missing relative fitting his
description and circumstances.

That's when Danny Palmer, funeral director at San Juan Mortuary, was called
to pick up the body and return it to southeastern Utah for burial, just a
few miles from where the crash occurred.

Palmer stored the body in the mortuary garage for about a week while the
grave was prepared. San Juan County paid the $700 bill for the burial, and
the mortuary donated a steel casket valued at $1,000.

There was no prayer, no ceremony as the body was laid to rest in plot 55 in
the Blanding cemetery. No. 8 was recorded in cemetery records as "unknown
male" _ an immigrant who died thousands of miles from home and was finally
buried Oct. 12.

"It felt a little bit hollow that there was no family. There was no noise,"
Danny Palmer recalled.

A local man who assisted, Mike Moses, said: "There was a heaviness that was
there. All of us felt pretty helpless about what to do."

The men tied a rope around the casket to make it easier to remove if anyone
ever does come looking. But for now, No. 8 will stay in Utah indefinitely.

"That'll be his spot," Philip Palmer said.
 
In article <47f27fb3$0$24119$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:

> http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr01/0,4670,ImmigrantNo8,00.html
>
> Illegal Immigrants Often Die Anonymously
> Tuesday, April 01, 2008
>
> BLANDING, Utah - The foreigner is buried in a small-town cemetery, against
> a barbed-wire fence in an unmarked plot set aside for poor people.
>
> He might be Mexican. He might be Guatemalan. But he's simply called No. 8, a
> man with no name because his identity is still unknown, a year after he was
> killed in a car wreck with seven other illegal immigrants in southeastern
> Utah.
>
> "This is the Garden of Eden of Utah down here," said Philip Palmer,
> coordinator at Blanding City Cemetery, referring to the mountain peaks in
> four states visible from the graveyard. "It's a good place to put him."
>
> More than 2,000 illegal immigrants have died in the Southwest since 2002,
> and many are nameless in death _ buried as anonymous victims of heat stroke,
> car crashes or other calamities.
>
> They typically carry no ID, just the clothes on their back and the dream of
> a life better than the one they left behind.
>
> "They're filling our morgues," said Todd Matthews of Livingston, Tenn., who
> works for the Doe Network, a volunteer organization that helps law
> enforcement with unidentified remains.
>
> More than half of the border-crossing deaths in the Southwest since 2002
> have occurred in Arizona's Pima County, which includes Tucson, on the
> Arizona-Mexico border.
>
> Bruce Anderson, a forensic anthropologist in Tucson, said a quarter of the
> victims there lack names. Many remains are little more than bleached bone
> after a few days in the sun, making them almost impossible to identify.
>
> "They die in the middle of nowhere," Anderson said. "Most Americans die in
> their car, in their house, or with somebody they know."
>
> In the case of No. 8, he apparently died in Utah among strangers.
>
> It's unknown when or how he entered the country. But on the night of April
> 15, 2007, he piled into a sport utility vehicle in Phoenix, joining 13 other
> people for a trip to St. Louis.
>
> They crossed the Arizona-Utah state line at 3:30 a.m. At some point, the
> driver drifted out of his lane, overcorrected and lost control of the
> vehicle, sending it spinning onto its side.
>
> The SUV rolled several times, and seven passengers were thrown from it.
> Eight people, all illegal immigrants, were killed.
>
> The driver, Rigoberto Salas-Lopez, told agents he was paid $1,000 to drive
> the group. He pleaded guilty to transporting illegal aliens resulting in
> death and will be sentenced June 5 in federal court in Salt Lake City.
>
> The body of No. 8 was transported more than 300 miles north to the Utah
> medical examiner's office in Salt Lake City, where doctors took
> fingerprints, photographs and samples from his body. But prospects for
> identifying him became increasingly bleak.
>
> "You can have a very fresh body, and still the person is unidentifiable
> because there are no leads as to who they might be," said Dr. Todd Grey, the
> state's chief medical examiner. "There's certainly not going to be a missing
> person's report filed."
>
> Virginia Kice, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said
> agents worked with the Mexican and Guatemalan consulates. The bodies of
> three other unknown crash victims were eventually identified and sent home
> for burial, but No. 8 remained.
>
> In Salt Lake City, the Mexican Consulate fed information from the medical
> examiner into a database but learned nothing. In Denver, the Guatemalan
> Consulate met the same result.
>
> Experts said DNA will be the key to solving difficult cases in the future.
>
> Lori Baker at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, has been building a DNA
> database since 2003. With DNA samples from Pima County, Ariz., and
> cooperation from the Mexican government, she has identified more than 70
> dead illegal immigrants.
>
> The process relies on relatives in Mexico telling authorities they haven't
> heard from a loved one who was expected to cross the border. If they provide
> a blood sample, Baker runs it through her database to compare it to samples
> on file.
>
> At a minimum, Baker hopes to develop a "genetic map" using indicators within
> DNA that could help identify someone's native country.
>
> "What we're hoping is that by having this genetic profile and then having
> information from Mexico, we can say, 'Well, this person doesn't look to be
> Mexican _ genetically, they look to be Guatemalan,'" she said.
>
> But to many coroners, the DNA process seems expensive and the technology
> intimidating, Baker said.
>
> By last fall, No. 8's body had been in Salt Lake City for six months. No
> family members had stepped up to claim a missing relative fitting his
> description and circumstances.
>
> That's when Danny Palmer, funeral director at San Juan Mortuary, was called
> to pick up the body and return it to southeastern Utah for burial, just a
> few miles from where the crash occurred.
>
> Palmer stored the body in the mortuary garage for about a week while the
> grave was prepared. San Juan County paid the $700 bill for the burial, and
> the mortuary donated a steel casket valued at $1,000.
>
> There was no prayer, no ceremony as the body was laid to rest in plot 55 in
> the Blanding cemetery. No. 8 was recorded in cemetery records as "unknown
> male" _ an immigrant who died thousands of miles from home and was finally
> buried Oct. 12.
>
> "It felt a little bit hollow that there was no family. There was no noise,"
> Danny Palmer recalled.
>
> A local man who assisted, Mike Moses, said: "There was a heaviness that was
> there. All of us felt pretty helpless about what to do."
>
> The men tied a rope around the casket to make it easier to remove if anyone
> ever does come looking. But for now, No. 8 will stay in Utah indefinitely.
>
> "That'll be his spot," Philip Palmer said.


12 million people paying into FICA all of a sudden will stave off the
collapse of the Social Security Administration Ponzi scheme.

Nobody's even whispering about any other solution. Are they?

Mostly because if one admits there's an elephant standing in the living
room, it'll automatically become that person's responsibility to DO
something about it.

"We don't need more Republican scare tactics about a 'Social Security
crisis.'"
---Hillary R. Clinton (November 19, 2007)

"President Bush and House Republicans pursued a risky Social Security
privatization plan that would have slashed guaranteed benefits and
drained trillions of dollars from Social Security."

---Nancy Pelosi (2006)

"Social Security is not in crisis. It's a crisis the president's
created, period."

---Harry Reid (2005)

"There's absolutely no crisis here...Over the long term, Social Security
does need to be reformed."

---Robert B. Reich (Former Clinton Administration
Labor Secretary, November 5, 2004)

"Not only is Social Security not in crisis, it is as financially sound
as ever, according to the liberal Center for Economic and Policy
Research, run by Mark Weisbrot and Dean Baker, coauthors of "Social
Security: The Phony Crisis."

http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/15/retirement/what_crisis/

--
NeoLibertarian

http://www.elihu.envy.nu/NeoPics/UncleHood.jpg
 
"Neolibertarian" <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cognac756-60EDCB.21363301042008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
> In article <47f27fb3$0$24119$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:
>> http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr01/0,4670,ImmigrantNo8,00.html
>> Illegal Immigrants Often Die Anonymously
>> Tuesday, April 01, 2008

> 12 million people paying into FICA all of a sudden will stave off the
> collapse of the Social Security Administration Ponzi scheme.


There aren't 12 million jobs available....

2004-2014 Long Term Projections:
United States; Average Annual Openings; Total, all occupations: 5,467,980
http://www.projectionscentral.com/p...%20Occupations&sortby=title&area=All&rsPage=4

> Nobody's even whispering about any other solution. Are they?


Nope. Nobody has the balls to go door-to-door find and deport them.

But it doesn't matter. All THREE Candidates are PRO-Amnesty.

> Mostly because if one admits there's an elephant standing in the living
> room, it'll automatically become that person's responsibility to DO
> something about it.


Bingo!

> "We don't need more Republican scare tactics about a 'Social Security
> crisis.'"
> ---Hillary R. Clinton (November 19, 2007)
> "President Bush and House Republicans pursued a risky Social Security
> privatization plan that would have slashed guaranteed benefits and
> drained trillions of dollars from Social Security."
> ---Nancy Pelosi (2006)
> "Social Security is not in crisis. It's a crisis the president's
> created, period."
> ---Harry Reid (2005)
> "There's absolutely no crisis here...Over the long term, Social Security
> does need to be reformed."
> ---Robert B. Reich (Former Clinton Administration
> Labor Secretary, November 5, 2004)
> "Not only is Social Security not in crisis, it is as financially sound
> as ever, according to the liberal Center for Economic and Policy
> Research, run by Mark Weisbrot and Dean Baker, coauthors of "Social
> Security: The Phony Crisis."
> http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/15/retirement/what_crisis/


Of course, those people are INSANE.

Thumbnail:

80 million people began retiring in January.

Over the next 20 years 80 MILLION will draw Social Security, use Medicare,
then die.

This is not a crisis. This is a catastrophe unlike ANY THAT HAS EVER
occurred in human history!

This is a 122% INCREASE in the normal American Death Rate over the next 20
years.

The ONLY way Uncle Socialist Sam can stay alive to HIGHLY TAX inheritance
and HIGHLY TAX Capital Gains.

We're about to have bad day, for 20+ years.
 
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
news:056d3ccd-8e84-488b-af3d-81c028a02884@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 1, 7:45 pm, Neolibertarian <cognac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>As for the idea of allowing those 20 million illegals into the system
>in order to shore up that SS trust fund.. it won't work.


Neo knows it won't work, but actually it MIGHT work and here's why:

It STALLS the problem. We have to limp along until about 2028-2033. That's
when the LAST of the 80 million Baby Boomers are dead and NOT collecting
Social Security and NOT bleeding Medicare to death.

If we don't get to 2028-2033 then the alternative is about 1,000 times WORSE
than Depression. Its actual total collapse. The physical and literal end of
America.

If we DO get to 2028-2033 then we merely change the value of everything to
accomodate a significantly smaller population!

Because we did nothing for so long we're now facing a problem that CANNOT be
solved. I cannot emphasize this enough: We missed the window of opportunity
within which we could have "solved" this problem. Its too late now. We
can't solve it. We have to ride it out and simply SURVIVE it.

>Those illegals need to be sent home.. let neocon business pay US
>workers decent wages... and let democrats win their elections fair and
>square.


You and I strongly believe in each of those three axiomatic facts.

But we're gonna be disappointed because Congress HAS NO CHOICE except to
create 20 million NEW citizens. They see 20 million NEW taxpayers and that
is irresistable to them!

NeoL will correct me if I'm wrong but what he's saying is its a stupid idea
on its face, its a stupid idea upon even cursory scrutiny, and its a stupid
idea when considering that it WON'T actually solve the single problem it is
meant to solve.

However, there is not a single ITEM that can contribute to the solution as
much as 20 million new taxpayers can.

Unfortunately its NOT 20 million new taxpayers. Its maybe 60% of that with
40% instantly collecting Welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc. It still
works out to a net plus.

Cash, enormous amounts of cash, staggeringly huge amounts of cash, have to
come into the system and very soon. **** the debt. We're not paying that
debt. Not anytime soon!

15 million new taxpayers, most of whom won't be looking to retire until
AFTER we survive the Baby Boomers, is a big help. Uncle Socialist Sam is
also gonna have to steal most inheritance through taxes AND steal most
non-work profits through massive capital gains taxes.

The GOP is gonna have to start looking at 20 million new Dems as 20 million
new Republicans ONLY IF the GOP is willing to fight for them and win them.
The good news is the stupid Dems see 20 million new Dems like a gift they
don't have to protect and that's why they'll LOSE many of them.

Stupid Dems....
 
In article <47f3cb91$0$30691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:

> "Neolibertarian" <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cognac756-60EDCB.21363301042008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
> > In article <47f27fb3$0$24119$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:
> >> http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr01/0,4670,ImmigrantNo8,00.html
> >> Illegal Immigrants Often Die Anonymously
> >> Tuesday, April 01, 2008

> > 12 million people paying into FICA all of a sudden will stave off the
> > collapse of the Social Security Administration Ponzi scheme.

>
> There aren't 12 million jobs available....
>
> 2004-2014 Long Term Projections:
> United States; Average Annual Openings; Total, all occupations: 5,467,980
> http://www.projectionscentral.com/projections.asp?page=DisplayResults&occ=Tota
> l%252C%2520All%2520Occupations&sortby=title&area=All&rsPage=4
>
> > Nobody's even whispering about any other solution. Are they?

>
> Nope. Nobody has the balls to go door-to-door find and deport them.
>
> But it doesn't matter. All THREE Candidates are PRO-Amnesty.
>
> > Mostly because if one admits there's an elephant standing in the living
> > room, it'll automatically become that person's responsibility to DO
> > something about it.

>
> Bingo!
>
> > "We don't need more Republican scare tactics about a 'Social Security
> > crisis.'"
> > ---Hillary R. Clinton (November 19, 2007)
> > "President Bush and House Republicans pursued a risky Social Security
> > privatization plan that would have slashed guaranteed benefits and
> > drained trillions of dollars from Social Security."
> > ---Nancy Pelosi (2006)
> > "Social Security is not in crisis. It's a crisis the president's
> > created, period."
> > ---Harry Reid (2005)
> > "There's absolutely no crisis here...Over the long term, Social Security
> > does need to be reformed."
> > ---Robert B. Reich (Former Clinton Administration
> > Labor Secretary, November 5, 2004)
> > "Not only is Social Security not in crisis, it is as financially sound
> > as ever, according to the liberal Center for Economic and Policy
> > Research, run by Mark Weisbrot and Dean Baker, coauthors of "Social
> > Security: The Phony Crisis."
> > http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/15/retirement/what_crisis/

>
> Of course, those people are INSANE.
>
> Thumbnail:
>
> 80 million people began retiring in January.
>
> Over the next 20 years 80 MILLION will draw Social Security, use Medicare,
> then die.
>
> This is not a crisis. This is a catastrophe unlike ANY THAT HAS EVER
> occurred in human history!
>
> This is a 122% INCREASE in the normal American Death Rate over the next 20
> years.
>
> The ONLY way Uncle Socialist Sam can stay alive to HIGHLY TAX inheritance
> and HIGHLY TAX Capital Gains.
>
> We're about to have bad day, for 20+ years.


Well, they're insane--of course--but what they're THINKING when they
pooh-pooh the crisis is--they've got a backdoor solution.

And in their psychotic, warped sphere, they DO.

Either way they're set up to win. If America goes bust, they'll shred
what's left of my constitution and install a fascist-socialist state to
"save" us.

FDR II, the Phantom Menace Strikes Again.

If they stave off the disaster, they'll still tear up my constitution,
and install a nearly total socialist state.

--
NeoLibertarian

http://www.elihu.envy.nu/NeoPics/UncleHood.jpg
 
In article <47f3d281$0$30675$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:

> NeoL will correct me if I'm wrong but what he's saying is its a stupid idea
> on its face, its a stupid idea upon even cursory scrutiny, and its a stupid
> idea when considering that it WON'T actually solve the single problem it is
> meant to solve.


It's a colossally stupid idea.

But, with the tsunami coming in, even a colossally stupid idea is better
than nothing.

And, as much as I love conservatives, they seem to have convinced
themselves that tax cuts define the movement. Along with being opposed
to immigration reform.

All other Reagan ideals are negotiable.

The "conservatives" in congress allowed the Social Security reform
debate to spiral out of control--almost before it had begun--and now
it's a dead horse lying in the middle of the road. No one will even
touch it--it stinks and the carcass is surrounded by swarms of flies.
It's glowing like it's radio active--and it is, in fact, radio active.

They also passed the Medicare Reform Act of 2003--which alone was reason
enough to fire them by 2006.
>
> Stupid Dems....


The only thing stupider than a Dem is...

Yes, an unemployed Republican.

Now, let's get over to Monster.com and place an ad.

--
NeoLibertarian

http://www.elihu.envy.nu/NeoPics/UncleHood.jpg
 
In article
<9cba02c5-b59c-4191-8b95-728008f2d7a6@m71g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
lorad474@cs.com wrote:

> And that is the neocon's true game... to extend an endless series of
> temporary sufferings (for the average citizen) that actually are
> continuous and never-ending..


You misspelled "American politician's" true game...

--
NeoLibertarian

http://www.elihu.envy.nu/NeoPics/UncleHood.jpg
 
<lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
news:9cba02c5-b59c-4191-8b95-728008f2d7a6@m71g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 2, 10:37 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> <lorad...@cs.com> wrote in message
>> news:056d3ccd-8e84-488b-af3d-81c028a02884@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Apr 1, 7:45 pm, Neolibertarian <cognac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >As for the idea of allowing those 20 million illegals into the system
>> >in order to shore up that SS trust fund.. it won't work.

>> Neo knows it won't work, but actually it MIGHT work and here's why:
>> It STALLS the problem. We have to limp along until about 2028-2033.
>> That's
>> when the LAST of the 80 million Baby Boomers are dead and NOT collecting
>> Social Security and NOT bleeding Medicare to death.

>Semantics... 'stalling' doesn't fix the problem..


This problem cannot be fixed. Stalling it, reducing its impact, are the
ONLY positive options available.

>It just extends insolvency, dishonesty, and malfeasance.
>And that is the neocon's true game...


That's ALL of Congress' true game regarding this problem.
 
"Neolibertarian" <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cognac756-4F4350.22142802042008@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <47f3d281$0$30675$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:
>> NeoL will correct me if I'm wrong but what he's saying is its a stupid
>> idea
>> on its face, its a stupid idea upon even cursory scrutiny, and its a
>> stupid
>> idea when considering that it WON'T actually solve the single problem it
>> is
>> meant to solve.

> It's a colossally stupid idea.
> But, with the tsunami coming in, even a colossally stupid idea is better
> than nothing.


I generally hate to sound conspiratorial but in this one instance I honestly
think they (Congress) have been doing nothing intentionally so that
circumstance alone would let them get away with the things they're gonna be
doing.

> And, as much as I love conservatives, they seem to have convinced
> themselves that tax cuts define the movement. Along with being opposed
> to immigration reform.


Its all they have. They are so bankrupt of ideas that they have Tax Cuts
and Security (sort of) to offer and nothing else....

> The "conservatives" in congress allowed the Social Security reform
> debate to spiral out of control--almost before it had begun--and now
> it's a dead horse lying in the middle of the road. No one will even
> touch it--it stinks and the carcass is surrounded by swarms of flies.
> It's glowing like it's radio active--and it is, in fact, radio active.


Your previous quotes told the whole story, really. The Dems are terrified
of the coming tsunami! So abjectly terrified they won't discuss it, they
won't even whisper it, they won't even acknowledge it exists!

I give the GOP a (tarnished, chipped) Bronze Star for at least trying to
float a discussion and just maybe begin placing some sandbags.... But it
was such a WEAK effort... And now its dead.

> The only thing stupider than a Dem is...
> Yes, an unemployed Republican.
> Now, let's get over to Monster.com and place an ad.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
 
"Neolibertarian" <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cognac756-211623.22011702042008@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <47f3cb91$0$30691$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:
>> "Neolibertarian" <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:cognac756-60EDCB.21363301042008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
>> > In article <47f27fb3$0$24119$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> > "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:
>> >> http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr01/0,4670,ImmigrantNo8,00.html
>> >> Illegal Immigrants Often Die Anonymously
>> >> Tuesday, April 01, 2008
>> > 12 million people paying into FICA all of a sudden will stave off the
>> > collapse of the Social Security Administration Ponzi scheme.

>> There aren't 12 million jobs available....
>> 2004-2014 Long Term Projections:
>> United States; Average Annual Openings; Total, all occupations: 5,467,980
>> http://www.projectionscentral.com/projections.asp?page=DisplayResults&occ=Tota
>> l%252C%2520All%2520Occupations&sortby=title&area=All&rsPage=4
>> > Nobody's even whispering about any other solution. Are they?

>> Nope. Nobody has the balls to go door-to-door find and deport them.
>> But it doesn't matter. All THREE Candidates are PRO-Amnesty.
>> > Mostly because if one admits there's an elephant standing in the living
>> > room, it'll automatically become that person's responsibility to DO
>> > something about it.

>> Bingo!
>> > "We don't need more Republican scare tactics about a 'Social Security
>> > crisis.'"
>> > ---Hillary R. Clinton (November 19, 2007)
>> > "President Bush and House Republicans pursued a risky Social Security
>> > privatization plan that would have slashed guaranteed benefits and
>> > drained trillions of dollars from Social Security."
>> > ---Nancy Pelosi (2006)
>> > "Social Security is not in crisis. It's a crisis the president's
>> > created, period."
>> > ---Harry Reid (2005)
>> > "There's absolutely no crisis here...Over the long term, Social
>> > Security
>> > does need to be reformed."
>> > ---Robert B. Reich (Former Clinton Administration
>> > Labor Secretary, November 5, 2004)
>> > "Not only is Social Security not in crisis, it is as financially sound
>> > as ever, according to the liberal Center for Economic and Policy
>> > Research, run by Mark Weisbrot and Dean Baker, coauthors of "Social
>> > Security: The Phony Crisis."
>> > http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/15/retirement/what_crisis/

>> Of course, those people are INSANE.
>> Thumbnail:
>> 80 million people began retiring in January.
>> Over the next 20 years 80 MILLION will draw Social Security, use
>> Medicare,
>> then die.
>> This is not a crisis. This is a catastrophe unlike ANY THAT HAS EVER
>> occurred in human history!
>> This is a 122% INCREASE in the normal American Death Rate over the next
>> 20
>> years.
>> The ONLY way Uncle Socialist Sam can stay alive to HIGHLY TAX inheritance
>> and HIGHLY TAX Capital Gains.
>> We're about to have bad day, for 20+ years.

> Well, they're insane--of course--but what they're THINKING when they
> pooh-pooh the crisis is--they've got a backdoor solution.
> And in their psychotic, warped sphere, they DO.
> Either way they're set up to win. If America goes bust, they'll shred
> what's left of my constitution and install a fascist-socialist state to
> "save" us.
> FDR II, the Phantom Menace Strikes Again.
> If they stave off the disaster, they'll still tear up my constitution,
> and install a nearly total socialist state.


I sound like a complete asshole when I say this but I think they did nothing
on purpose for the last few decades so they could impose a total socialist
state and blame it on 'problems' and not themselves.
 
In article <47f4e477$0$24119$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:

> "Neolibertarian" <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cognac756-4F4350.22142802042008@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> > In article <47f3d281$0$30675$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:
> >> NeoL will correct me if I'm wrong but what he's saying is its a stupid
> >> idea
> >> on its face, its a stupid idea upon even cursory scrutiny, and its a
> >> stupid
> >> idea when considering that it WON'T actually solve the single problem it
> >> is
> >> meant to solve.

> > It's a colossally stupid idea.
> > But, with the tsunami coming in, even a colossally stupid idea is better
> > than nothing.

>
> I generally hate to sound conspiratorial but in this one instance I honestly
> think they (Congress) have been doing nothing intentionally so that
> circumstance alone would let them get away with the things they're gonna be
> doing.


Well, think about the lead up to World War I. The players told us later
that most every one of them could see it coming. Some even understood
that it would mean biting off far more than their respective countries
could chew. Many of them tried to avoid it, many of them VIGOROUSLY
tried to avoid it. But most of them felt they were being swept along by
events, and that really, by the Spring of 14, they were powerless to do
anything but get ready for it.

And we're talking about the most powerful men in the world, and most all
of them were at the top of their game.

And yes, there were those who knew all along what they were doing, and
where it would end up, Far from not caring about the consequences, they
rather sought out that war to end all wars. They sought it out. With
eyes wide open.

And yes, there are those among the Dems and some GOP's who are seeking
this crisis. In order to force the issues and become hero's with their
von Schlieffen plans.

A conspiracy of sorts, but not like the idiots around these parts think
of a conspiracy.

I firmly believe that most of them are being assured that the crisis is
not exactly as advertised--after all, the US government doesn't have to
behave like Joe Schmoe with his paltry savings account. The US prints
its own money, and because of its nature, cannot lose the same game that
any individual or corporation can lose. Like a Hitlary commodities
trade, the US treasury is in on both sides of every transaction.

It can keep the game going a really really long time. It can avoid
losing far longer than most of us can imagine.

Barring the unforeseen.

And the unforeseen always happens, doesn't it? And it always happens at
the most inconvenient times.
>
> > And, as much as I love conservatives, they seem to have convinced
> > themselves that tax cuts define the movement. Along with being opposed
> > to immigration reform.

>
> Its all they have. They are so bankrupt of ideas that they have Tax Cuts
> and Security (sort of) to offer and nothing else....


They need a leader.

Rush is a great ideologue, an important ally to the conservative
movement, but since he's been "the man running America," the GOP has
gone down in flames.

"You know it, and I know it..."

Rush and Mark Levin STILL think that Gingrich is/was a "great
conservative leader." In reality, he was just a piece of ****
incompetent sorry excuse of a man--but he knew the game, and he knew how
to advocate a position (any position as it turns out) to the hilt.

He was a useful piece of **** because he knew how to be a useful servant.

When it profited him.

Which is all I ask. I'm not a dreamy eyed hero worshiper. All my heros
are dead, anyway.

I could work with McCain, given the chance. I could even work with
Gingrich.

We have to hire someone, and then once he's in, we need to watch him,
and make sure he doesn't steal the silverware. But whoever it is, he's
gotta realize who's signing his checks.

Let the Dems pick a leader. It's what they're all about anyway.

It seems every GOP and conservative but me is looking for a leader.
They're gonna still be sitting around looking for a leader when we
replace the star field on Old Glory with the hammer and sickle.

> > The "conservatives" in congress allowed the Social Security reform
> > debate to spiral out of control--almost before it had begun--and now
> > it's a dead horse lying in the middle of the road. No one will even
> > touch it--it stinks and the carcass is surrounded by swarms of flies.
> > It's glowing like it's radio active--and it is, in fact, radio active.

>
> Your previous quotes told the whole story, really. The Dems are terrified
> of the coming tsunami! So abjectly terrified they won't discuss it, they
> won't even whisper it, they won't even acknowledge it exists!


Some have been told not to worry, and so they don't. Some have been told
not to worry, but they do anyway. Then they're told to stfu--there's the
secret plan that'll take care of everything.

And then some know the whole story.

They're gonna be the ones to move everyone up the hill. Just as everyone
gets there, the water's gonna start receding rapidly away from the
beach. And then the Big Kahuna will hit.

Who'll be the hero? The guy who moved everyone up the hill before hand,
that's who.
>
> I give the GOP a (tarnished, chipped) Bronze Star for at least trying to
> float a discussion and just maybe begin placing some sandbags.... But it
> was such a WEAK effort... And now its dead.
>
> > The only thing stupider than a Dem is...
> > Yes, an unemployed Republican.
> > Now, let's get over to Monster.com and place an ad.

>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!


Hey now, I'm serious.

Sort of...

--
NeoLibertarian

http://www.elihu.envy.nu/NeoPics/UncleHood.jpg
 
"Neolibertarian" <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cognac756-DB4D91.21515103042008@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <47f4e477$0$24119$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:
>> "Neolibertarian" <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:cognac756-4F4350.22142802042008@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
>> > In article <47f3d281$0$30675$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> > "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:
>> >> NeoL will correct me if I'm wrong but what he's saying is its a stupid
>> >> idea
>> >> on its face, its a stupid idea upon even cursory scrutiny, and its a
>> >> stupid
>> >> idea when considering that it WON'T actually solve the single problem
>> >> it
>> >> is
>> >> meant to solve.
>> > It's a colossally stupid idea.
>> > But, with the tsunami coming in, even a colossally stupid idea is
>> > better
>> > than nothing.

>> I generally hate to sound conspiratorial but in this one instance I
>> honestly
>> think they (Congress) have been doing nothing intentionally so that
>> circumstance alone would let them get away with the things they're gonna
>> be
>> doing.

> Well, think about the lead up to World War I. The players told us later
> that most every one of them could see it coming. Some even understood
> that it would mean biting off far more than their respective countries
> could chew. Many of them tried to avoid it, many of them VIGOROUSLY
> tried to avoid it. But most of them felt they were being swept along by
> events, and that really, by the Spring of 14, they were powerless to do
> anything but get ready for it.
> And we're talking about the most powerful men in the world, and most all
> of them were at the top of their game.
> And yes, there were those who knew all along what they were doing, and
> where it would end up, Far from not caring about the consequences, they
> rather sought out that war to end all wars. They sought it out. With
> eyes wide open.
> And yes, there are those among the Dems and some GOP's who are seeking
> this crisis. In order to force the issues and become hero's with their
> von Schlieffen plans.
> A conspiracy of sorts, but not like the idiots around these parts think
> of a conspiracy.


Yep, exactly right.

> I firmly believe that most of them are being assured that the crisis is
> not exactly as advertised--after all, the US government doesn't have to
> behave like Joe Schmoe with his paltry savings account. The US prints
> its own money, and because of its nature, cannot lose the same game that
> any individual or corporation can lose. Like a Hitlary commodities
> trade, the US treasury is in on both sides of every transaction.
> It can keep the game going a really really long time. It can avoid
> losing far longer than most of us can imagine.


True, but pretending that magic will happen is insane. The coming crisis is
what it is. The facts are actually so simple that I think it frightens
people into a mental paralysis. It stuns them and then they can't get
beyond being stunned.

> Barring the unforeseen.
> And the unforeseen always happens, doesn't it? And it always happens at
> the most inconvenient times.


In this particular instance there simply isn't anything unforeseen that can
happen that is positive (except maybe the arrival of friendly space aliens).

80 million baby Boomers is a fact. We've counted and recounted. That's the
real number.

They hit 62 years old this year. That's the fact. One year is 12 months
long and is expected to remain 12 months long...

The 80 million won't live beyond their late 80's because almost nobody does,
and those that do require significant medical care...

How many posts have you seen with the racial predictions of 2050 (and
similar)? NOT ONE, even the ones from the Census folks, mention that we're
gonna lose 80 million citizens in 20 years and that the demographics are
going to change huge BECAUSE MOST THEM ARE WHITE.

Literally NOBODY in DC will talk about it. They won't even whisper it!

And you know what that means... It means they're scared shitless!

>> Its all they have. They are so bankrupt of ideas that they have Tax Cuts
>> and Security (sort of) to offer and nothing else....

> They need a leader.
> Rush is a great ideologue, an important ally to the conservative
> movement, but since he's been "the man running America," the GOP has
> gone down in flames.
> "You know it, and I know it..."
> Rush and Mark Levin STILL think that Gingrich is/was a "great
> conservative leader." In reality, he was just a piece of ****
> incompetent sorry excuse of a man--but he knew the game, and he knew how
> to advocate a position (any position as it turns out) to the hilt.
> He was a useful piece of **** because he knew how to be a useful servant.
> When it profited him.


Newt was a "great conservative leader" by comparison. Which is like saying
a bowl of stale Rice Krispies is ****ing gourmet cuisine (compared to a bowl
of fresh dog ****).

> Which is all I ask. I'm not a dreamy eyed hero worshiper. All my heros
> are dead, anyway.
> I could work with McCain, given the chance. I could even work with
> Gingrich.
> We have to hire someone, and then once he's in, we need to watch him,
> and make sure he doesn't steal the silverware. But whoever it is, he's
> gotta realize who's signing his checks.
> Let the Dems pick a leader. It's what they're all about anyway.
> It seems every GOP and conservative but me is looking for a leader.
> They're gonna still be sitting around looking for a leader when we
> replace the star field on Old Glory with the hammer and sickle.


Looking for a leader is itself part of the problem. Used to be several good
people would step up and want the job, now none do.

>> Your previous quotes told the whole story, really. The Dems are
>> terrified
>> of the coming tsunami! So abjectly terrified they won't discuss it, they
>> won't even whisper it, they won't even acknowledge it exists!

> Some have been told not to worry, and so they don't. Some have been told
> not to worry, but they do anyway. Then they're told to stfu--there's the
> secret plan that'll take care of everything.
> And then some know the whole story.
> They're gonna be the ones to move everyone up the hill. Just as everyone
> gets there, the water's gonna start receding rapidly away from the
> beach. And then the Big Kahuna will hit.
> Who'll be the hero? The guy who moved everyone up the hill before hand,
> that's who.


True enough!

Which reminds me, 80 million dead people in caskets requires 2.5 billion
cubic feet of earth...
 
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