Do atheists know more about Christianity than Christians?

My link

 

Interesting read. I took this from another debate site. Near the end one contributer suggested religious studies in school. I think that could be a good idea, to expose youth to world religions, rather than "bible study" per se. Let youth make their own informed decisions..what a novel concept.

Now that is some funny stuff.

 

 

Let me ask a similar question: "Does a person who takes College level Spanish know more about Spanish than someone who lives in Cuba and speaks Spanish every day?

 

 

 

The answer is both yes and no. The college kid can learn the "technical" side of Spanish but find he can barely communicate if he actually went to a spanish speaking Country because there is more to speaking spanish than what can be found in a book. I have a friend who does translations and he has told me that translating for Cubans and translating for Mexicans can be very different depending on what areas they are from. English in America can be very different depending on where you are from.

 

A 'bubbla' in Boston is a water fountain, but try looking up 'bubbla' in the dictionary. The only dictionary that has it right is the urban dictionary that deals with slang but 'bubbla' is an every day word used in that area.

 

Christianity is more than the Bible, it is all about the realationship between the person and God and the day to day expression of it through your thoughts and your actions, not if you can spout off a verse out of the bible or how well you know about a Church custom that is performed.

Well..that wasn't predictable at all TJ..not at all

My link

 

Interesting read. I took this from another debate site. Near the end one contributer suggested religious studies in school. I think that could be a good idea, to expose youth to world religions, rather than "bible study" per se. Let youth make their own informed decisions..what a novel concept.

 

Just as long as the pagan rituals behind current "religious" studies are included, and the similarities between heathen, christian, islam, judaism, hindu, buddhism etc, are covered equally, it would be more of a history lesson, than anything fundamentally pixie worshipping, Emkay.

Pixie worshiping? That sounds awesome!

Pixie worshiping? That sounds awesome!

 

With the current fascination with anything witches, warlocks, vampires, demons, I'd say that the humble pixie is well overdue for a relaunch into hyperspace, Em. Agreed? :woot:

if that is the same survey I took yesterday (can't tell, the site is blocked here) then not all the questions were about Christianity- thus making the article title "Do Atheists Know More About Christianity Than Christians?" a bit misleading.

 

I got 14 out of 15. I missed one about Pakistan.

 

Yeah, I care...

No Eddo it wasn't a public survey thing..I don't think.

 

Besides...it didn't say ALL Christians were uninformed...just the majority

Well, if it's all about faith, how about me truly believing that I'll be forgiven for desectrating the church by using the place to practice sodomy and child abuse?

 

Works for the Priests. The only "punishment" they get is being shunted on to the next unsuspecting community, where blokes in gowns with a chequered past are welcomed with open arms, or should that read anuses?

A large number of Deists (which I am), are composed of Ex Catholic's (which I also am). We understand the bible so much, that it can make you sick.

 

Peg one against a Christian on the game show Jeopardy and my money's on the Deist/Ex Catholic.

 

I'd say this statement is 100% accurate:

 

"I have heard many times that atheists know more about religion than religious people," Mr. Silverman said. "Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That's how you make atheists."

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A large number of Deists (which I am), are composed of Ex Catholic's (which I also am). We understand the bible so much, that it can make you sick.

 

Peg one against a Christian on the game show Jeopardy and my money's on the Deist/Ex Catholic.

 

I'd say this statement is 100% accurate:

 

"I have heard many times that atheists know more about religion than religious people," Mr. Silverman said. "Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That's how you make atheists."

 

 

Ex-catholic? Or recovering catholic? My father counted himself amongst the latter, Phreakwars. The "brotherhood" turned my dad into a hater of all things catholic.

 

He told me that the brainwashing doesn't "take" with every new recruit. Time to get the heavy black leather belt out, for some "fear of doG" treatment.

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A large number of Deists (which I am), are composed of Ex Catholic's (which I also am). We understand the bible so much, that it can make you sick.

 

Peg one against a Christian on the game show Jeopardy and my money's on the Deist/Ex Catholic.

 

I'd say this statement is 100% accurate:

 

"I have heard many times that atheists know more about religion than religious people," Mr. Silverman said. "Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That's how you make atheists."

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And this is my point about how you may understand a word, but you don't understand the concept of religion.

 

 

 

It was a feeling of faith that inspired the religious writings, not the other way around. Men created the Bible and the many religions that have splintered from feelings of faith, but none of the books or the many religions were created by God.

 

 

So can an Atheist truly understand Christianity if he cannot understand the spiritual side of it? 100% of Christianity is internal, it is a realationship between a man and God. Atheists can never know Christianity until they are no longer an Atheist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me give you another example Emkay.

 

If someone asked me to name some specific things about being an artist I could rattle off all kinds of popular terms and offer definitions and explanations of those terms very well but does my being familure with the artist terms and usages mean I understand what it is to be an artist?

So can an Atheist truly understand Christianity if he cannot understand the spiritual side of it? 100% of Christianity is internal, it is a realationship between a man and God. Atheists can never know Christianity until they are no longer an Atheist.

 

The only thing they possibly can't understand that you think you do is the weekly gathering of people who all claim to know everything from the beginning til the end of time.. But then again, lots of atheists prolly do since many of them were forced to go to church by their parents as kids and witnessed the hypocrisy of it all and became disillusioned with religion in general.

 

If 100% is internal, why do people gather every Sunday to validate for each other that they indeed are the keepers of all knowledge from the beginning til the end of time?

TJ..the artists thing doesn't work for me. I personally believe we are all artists..some just choose to develop it. You could spout all that you know about art and I would likely not have the slightest clue. I have never been taught by a textbook or a school. So the art thing doesn't fit for me. Actually if it was technique you were talking..then that would be more of a learning experience for me because I never received any.

 

You say an atheist can't know because we don't live it...but you project your "knowledge" at people who "live" in the scenarios you dispute..everyday.

 

For example...you claim Canadian health care is brutal because you read some statistics..but I live here and like it. Why is it okay for you...but not for anyone else?

I've thanked my parents for never making me go to church.

 

Apparently I went to Sunday school once at like 5 years old at a Luthern church and told my mom I never wanted to go back. Never did.. Vague recollection.

 

My cuz.. forced by his folks to attend this same church into his teens, told his pastor/priest/whatever title they use at his confirmation that he didn't believe in God.. hahahahaha

 

I had many, many friends who's folks made them go to church.. most saw it as a burden.. there's a reason why.

People who share beliefs and ideas have always gathered together Wez, don't try to make it such a puzzle.

 

 

Even the complete goofballs like to gather together at places like the Huffington post and the daily kos. How about people who gather for a music concert, they are there to share their love of music, while those of faith gather to share their love of God and each other. No real mystery, the only real mystery to the Atheists is they can't find the love that is the real definition and purpose of those with faith.

 

 

The closest feeling would be the unconditional love of a parent to their child Wez, but you don't know anything about that either now do you? Can you say you fully understand how I feel as a parent, how my love changes my life just because you can spout off the medical terms involved with pregnancy and procreation? Does your superior technical knowledge of terms mean you understand what it means to be a parent?

 

Of course not, and that is my point with religion. You can walk around with a book of religious terms and meanings all day long but if you don't have that connection with God, you know nothing about any faith that matters.

For the record..I do not claim to be one of the "all knowing" atheists described in the article. I've read the bible and thought it was a nice collection of stories..but I can't quote scripture or talk catholicism..but maybe if I had learned more about the world's religions in school, I may be a Buddhist today..or a Christian..who knows.

Only religion gathers to lay claim to the worlds knowledge from the beginning til the end of time.. It's a unique island all it's own. Artists and arts are something completely different. People don't gather at concerts at different locales and then fight in perpetuity with people who attended another concert 1/2 around the world 2000 years ago over the content of that concert.

 

 

btw.. the only way to love is unconditionally.. otherwise.. ain't love..

TJ..the artists thing doesn't work for me. I personally believe we are all artists..some just choose to develop it. You could spout all that you know about art and I would likely not have the slightest clue. I have never been taught by a textbook or a school. So the art thing doesn't fit for me. Actually if it was technique you were talking..then that would be more of a learning experience for me because I never received any.

 

Wait a second, you just made my point for me and you didn't even know it.

 

You just admitted you did not know the technical terms I know because you were never formally trained and instead tought yourself. That is a perfect example of my point. You produce the art anyway even if you don't know some of the technical terms and yet I do know many of the technical terms but I cannot produce any art, not art worth viewing anyway.

 

 

The same is true in something like this story your posting, while an Atheist may know technical terms and words out of some religious literature, they don't have the spiritual connection needed to truly understand faith.

 

 

 

 

 

You say an atheist can't know because we don't live it...but you project your "knowledge" at people who "live" in the scenarios you dispute..everyday.

 

For example...you claim Canadian health care is brutal because you read some statistics..but I live here and like it. Why is it okay for you...but not for anyone else?

 

 

You can't compare the two emkay, that is just silly.

 

 

Faith is in the soul, in your heart, in your thoughts, there is nothing you can use to measure faith to allow a technical review of what Faith is, it is like my example to Wez, knowing the technical terms of child creation does not mean he will ever understand the unconditional love a parent feels for their children, well good parents anyway....

 

 

 

The Canadian healthcare is easily defined and compared to other medical care provided here in America. The recent story of the woman who had unexplained back pain for many years and a chance comment to a doctor qualified her for a MRI that detected her cancer only after it was too late for anything short of a mirical to save her life. It can take 15 months to get a MRI in Canada, that is a measurable result of treatment we can put on paper. In America I got a MRI two days after I saw my doctor and he ordered it. I saw my doctor the next day after calling for an appointment, so three days after I started with a complaint, I was having am MRI performed, not 15 months later.

 

 

Faith and the feelings I have in my faith cannot be measured, compared, or classified by anyone but those who share these same feelings Emkay, just like we could have a discussion about how we love our children but Wez would never truly understand.

 

 

 

 

 

Wez, your an idiot, I should know better than to ever try to hold a reasonable conversation with you because your not interested in reasoned debate, all you want to do is start crap and bash religion.

 

I have never heard a single person in any church I have attended ever claim to possess all the knowledge of the world, where do you get this tripe?

 

 

I offered you a better example, love of a child from a parent, you can't measure that love or create a graph or write a book that ever does justice to the feelings I have as a parent. The day I held my oldest son in my hands and he was so tiny and helpless I was hit with a love I never even imagined was possible. With all your advanced medical knowledge of how children are created, you cannot ever understand the meaning of the love I describe, and the same is true for faith and religion. You can possess the knowledge of every religious book on the face of the planet but you will not even know 1% of what it means to have faith.

Wez, your an idiot, I should know better than to ever try to hold a reasonable conversation with you because your not interested in reasoned debate, all you want to do is start crap and bash religion.

 

I have never heard a single person in any church I have attended ever claim to possess all the knowledge of the world, where do you get this tripe?

 

 

I offered you a better example, love of a child from a parent, you can't measure that love or create a graph or write a book that ever does justice to the feelings I have as a parent. The day I held my oldest son in my hands and he was so tiny and helpless I was hit with a love I never even imagined was possible. With all your advanced medical knowledge of how children are created, you cannot ever understand the meaning of the love I describe, and the same is true for faith and religion. You can possess the knowledge of every religious book on the face of the planet but you will not even know 1% of what it means to have faith.

 

What the f ck?

 

Does religion claim to know how humanity began? Does it claim to know what will happen for 1000 years after the rapture? Does it claim to know the guide how people should act and think? It claims concrete knowledge based on what?

 

OK.. your love of another is far greater than anything I could ever understand.. and it's exactly like religion and faith..

The knowledge about the bible doesn't change..or the religious terms..I thought it was interesting that they didn't..in order to believe in something completely unsubstantiated. I guess that's why it is called faith. The terms regarding art and procreation maybe cannot convey a feeling..but the terms are correct and true and constant. I don't claim to know how you feel...my question is how does a Christian follow something absolutely, completely and not understand the background foundations on their own religion. Your argument says "they just know". I don't accept that. If I had to follow something that supposedly shapes every aspect of my life then I need to know the full details in order to follow and make it my life.

 

You're right..I taught myself art...but from fundamentals..I wasn't just born with it. I had to develop it..and try to learn what I could from other sources. I didn't magically draw well..I had to draw a lot...I didn't naturally paint well...I had to try different things. Art comes from tangible things...religion..well..you just have to accept what someone says as true because there is no way to substantiate anything. You may not understand the content of my paintings..but you certainly can be taught.

...oh and on the subject of "parental love"...that is NOT constant or universal. There are thousands of thousands of "parents" that ruin their children everyday. It doesn't come from love. I believe people can understand the love a parent has for a child even if they don't have them. Many many times I've seen aunts, uncles and friends behave more "parental" than many parents. That argument holds no water.

 

Does religion claim to know how humanity began? Does it claim to know what will happen for 1000 years after the rapture? Does it claim to know the guide how people should act and think?

 

How does any of that qualify with the crap you spouted about people in church claiming to know the "worlds knowledge"?

 

They claim spiritual knowledge sure, but that is all, again your just religion bashing.

 

 

OK.. your love of another is far greater than anything I could ever understand.. and it's exactly like religion and faith..

 

I did not say they were exactly the same Wez, I said it was the closest example I could offer to my feelings of faith. You have never loved unconditionally, you admit yourself to loving then hating your ex-girlfriend and disposing of the offspring that resulted from your time together, you have never known the feelings I have known so nothign I can say on either love or faith is something you will ever have the ability to understand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The knowledge about the bible doesn't change..or the religious terms..I thought it was interesting that they didn't..in order to believe in something completely unsubstantiated. I guess that's why it is called faith. The terms regarding art and procreation maybe cannot convey a feeling..but the terms are correct and true and constant. I don't claim to know how you feel...my question is how does a Christian follow something absolutely, completely and not understand the background foundations on their own religion. Your argument says "they just know". I don't accept that. If I had to follow something that supposedly shapes every aspect of my life then I need to know the full details in order to follow and make it my life.

 

 

 

Your still missing the point, please try to read what I am posting without any assumptions. I never said "they just know", you are inserting that into what I am saying, you need to stop trying to insert things I never said and try to read and understand what I did say.

 

I said people "feel" their faith, that faith is not about the books or the formal expressions some factions have included in their worship. Faith does not come from the things you think you know about and that is why your baffled about how someone can have faith outside of the books, the books are expressions of faith, not the creaters of faith.

 

 

Terms covering procreation are always correct and are scientific expressions of that process, but a religious textbook is not scientific, it is a tool some people of faith use to help their journey into spiritual discovery but it is not needed to be spiritual. Remember that the ability to read is a relatively new accomplishment for humans but the belief in God in it's many ways has been there for almost all of our existence.

 

 

You're right..I taught myself art...but from fundamentals..I wasn't just born with it. I had to develop it..and try to learn what I could from other sources. I didn't magically draw well..I had to draw a lot...I didn't naturally paint well...I had to try different things. Art comes from tangible things...religion..well..you just have to accept what someone says as true because there is no way to substantiate anything. You may not understand the content of my paintings..but you certainly can be taught.

 

Again, your still refusing to see what I am telling you. You cannot keep saying that faith comes from books or from accepting what someone else tells you because that has nothing to do with religion in the slightest. Some may fall into that category but if your following a religion just because someone else tells you to, then you don't have faith.

 

Faith only comes from inside us, we feel a drive, a feeling that there is something going on that we can't explain. As your art example, people have to take time to develop our faith, to refine and grow our faith as it fits our own personal outlook. Sure we can gather and try to learn from each other similar to how you might meet with other artists and discuss art and maybe even show each other things but at the end of the day, your art and it's expression is your own, it is not given to you out of a book or handed to you from someone else.

 

Your art is inside you, the things you create are expressions of your artistic talent, but each example you create is not the total art you possess. My faith may be similar to the faith of other people, but it is my faith, not their faith. A religious book may be the expression of one or a group of people who felt faith, but that does not mean everything they wrote down is what I feel or believe in.

So then faith is a feeling..based on nothing...no books, no common thoughts, no common understanding of symbolism...nothing..just a feeling..a magical feeling all encompassing? Crap..it's no wonder I'm an atheist. I guess religion can't be taught. My bad.

 

Freaking bible school, a baptism, and bible camp...damn it....wasted Maybe we are chosen for indoctrination into God's army. I think I'm poor stock..it's eternal condemnation for me

I did not say they were exactly the same Wez, I said it was the closest example I could offer to my feelings of faith. You have never loved unconditionally, you admit yourself to loving then hating your ex-girlfriend and disposing of the offspring that resulted from your time together, you have never known the feelings I have known so nothign I can say on either love or faith is something you will ever have the ability to understand.

 

I'd say the unconditional love from child to parent is more encompassing as an example than the other way around.

 

Your point wasn't to make a point, it was to point out that I "disposed" of my "offspring" and somehow connect that it's relevant to this discussion on religion to verify that you are indeed a superior human being?

 

I have in fact loved and do love unconditionally, it's the only kind of love there is.

 

Your argument fell apart before you even got started.. should tell ya sumpin'..