Do Narcissists hate women?

Narcissists are misogynists. They team up with women as mere Sources of Narcissistic Supply.

Otherwise, cerebral narcissists are not interested in women. Most of them are asexual (engage in sexual acts very rarely, if at all). They hold women in contempt and abhor the thought of being really intimate with them.

Usually, they choose submissive women, well below their level. This leads to a vicious cycle of neediness, self-contempt ("How come I am dependent on this inferior woman") and disdain directed at the woman. Hence the abuse.

The narcissist does regard, though, the "subjugation" of an attractive woman to be a Source of Narcissistic Supply.

It is a status symbol, proof of virility and masculinity and it allows him to engage in "vicarious" narcissistic behaviours (=being a narcissist through others, transforming others into tools at the service of his narcissism, into his extensions). This is done by employing defence mechanisms such as projective identification.

The narcissist believes that being in love IS actually merely going through the motions. To him, emotions are mimicry and pretence.

He says: "I am a conscious misogynist. I fear and loathe women and tend to ignore them to the best of my ability. To me they are a mixture of hunter and parasite."

Most male narcissists are misogynists. After all, they are the warped creations of women. Women gave birth to them and moulded them into what they are: dysfunctional, maladaptive, and emotionally dead. They are angry at their mothers and, by extension at all women.

The narcissist's attitude to women is, naturally, complex and multi-layered but it can be summarised using four axes:

The Holy Whore The Hunter Parasite The Frustrating Object of Desire Uniqueness Roles

The narcissist divides all women to saints and whores. He finds it difficult to have sex ("dirty", "forbidden", "punishable", "degrading") with feminine significant others (spouse, intimate girlfriend). To him, sex and intimacy are mutually exclusive rather than mutually expressive propositions. Sex is reserved to "whores" (all other women in the world). This division resolves the narcissist's constant cognitive dissonance ("I want her but

Answer

After reading a lot about narcissists and women, I once asked my (now)exN outright if he liked women. He admitted that he didn't really and said that they always wanted something - something he knew he wasn't able to give. He said he didn't really like having women in his apartment, but he obviously needed them there for sex (ans NS) and admitted trying to get one (the whore) out of the door before the potential new girlfriend was due to arrive! Sex was infrequent and over as quickly as possible ("stop talking, I'm concentrating on my orgasm!). And he couldn't get out of bed quick enough for a cigarette and to get dressed afterwards. The same is with his latest girlfriend (he lives upstairs from me so I can hear - aren't I lucky), but with the other unsuitable girl, he was at it for ages. Totally correlates with what Sam Vaknin says. My exN always managed to get involved with women that he knew might have money. He considered his "long term" victims carefully in that regard.

One thing I found interesting is that when he was drinking, and again in the early days of rehab, when his defences were down and he was following the "12 Steps", he was a lot more honest and he genuinely had hopes for a normal life and relationship. Didn't last though.

In a way, I feel lucky - I did my research and now understand how and why I got into his clutches and how his upbringing has caused this (emotionally and physically abused child). So many don't know. Even so, having had all this knowledge for a year, and warnings from friends, I STILL hoped we could make a go of it despite his delaying tactics about entering a relationship (he is a recovering alcoholic and AA told him not to go out with anyone for a year - yeah right like he was going to miss out on NS for that long). It took a total sudden betrayal by him to jolt me into action - and he STILL wanted me to be his pal (er like no) - but I am better equipped to bear the hurt and move on and I have to thank Sam Vaknin and these pages for that.

I feel very sorry for his latest victim because she is the young, naive, type - just hope she sees through this intrinsic woman-hater-user soon otherwise there will be another abuse victim maybe looking at these pages. I would love to be able to warn her but of course, I would just be the vindictive ex!

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Answer

Narcissists ooze sex appeal to the trapped one. Sex seems great for a while, but only a while. Eventually sex will be withdrawn for whatever reason they see fit. Then suddenly out of the blue they might expect kinky sex on the bonnet of the car in a car park when it is just out of the question. They tire of the one woman quickly because every new body is a possible emotional conquest. In the meantime this collection of besotted women become attatched to the narssisist in some way. Just look in a narcissist's phone or email contact list...there will be a lot of women, many just hanging in there waiting for his call. None of them are really important to him but they have a purpose and that's to gratify his ego as he moves around from one to another. These traits may not be typical to some n's but it is certainly my experience of being with one. And if I am honest with myself I must say that deep down he probably wanted to like me but just couldn't bring himself to do it.

Women can be narcissists, too.

Obviously, narcissists aren't up to par in the brain department. Fake name, fake number, at her place only, and if at any time you feel it's not working and you want to leave, fake the orgasm(ditch the 'dom yourself). That's the key to one-way no-strings sex.

In employers, NPD, or narcissistic personality disorder is more prevalent in women, surprisingly, but in general, men are three times more likely to develop the most commonly misdiagnosed mental disorder in the world.

This guy has an interesting concept of why. It's because of the much vaunted American value system. To be blunt, he thinks you are breeding them. Serves you fucking right.

 

There is one incriminating piece of evidence - the incidence of NPD among men and women.

 

There is no proof that NPD is a genetic disorder or has genetic roots. There is overwhelming evidence that it is the sad outcome of faulty upbringing. Still, if NPD is not related to cultural and social contexts, then it should occur equally among men and women. It doesn't.

 

It occurs three times more among men than it does among women.

 

This seems to be because the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (as opposed, for instance, to the Borderline or the Histrionic Personality Disorders, which afflict women more than men) seems to conform to masculine social mores and to the prevailing ethos of capitalism.

 

Ambition, achievements, hierarchy, ruthlessness, drive - are both social values and narcissistic male traits. Social thinkers like Lasch speculated that modern American culture - a narcissistic, self-centred one - increases the rate of incidence of the Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

 

To this Kernberg answered, rightly:

 

"The most I would be willing to say is that society can make serious psychological abnormalities, which already exist in some percentage of the population, seem to be at least superficially appropriate."

More here.

Fascinating stuff Lethal, thanks for a good read. Being once close to someone with NPD has given you insight into the condition.

You write:

and how his upbringing has caused this (emotionally and physically abused child).

I read buiders post earlier, where it says that NPD is NOT genetic.It must therefore be environmentally caused. You believe it was child abuse. To help us understand this condition more can you please enlighten us more about the guys childhood ? ie were the abusers both parents, or just the mother? perhaps it was just the father.

Considering the anger directed at women, I'm guessing that his mother was largely responsible

Narcissists mistrust themselves, slip_knot. Hence they mistrust everyone else, regardless of gender.

Their whole existence is a sham, and it is impossible to even get close to "them", because the front they put up is nothing like what they really are.

Here's few descriptors of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or NPD, from the writings of Sam Vaknin, an acredited Psychologist who hosts a forum for discussing NPD and the damage that Narcissists do in society, in the workplace, and in relationships. It would appear that Narcissism has many incarnations.

The Professions of the Narcissist

Narcissists are liars. They misrepresent their credentials,

knowledge, talents, skills, and achievements. A narcissist medical

doctor would rather let patients die than expose his ignorance. A

narcissistic therapist often traumatizes his clients with his acting

out, rage, exploitativeness, and lack of empathy. Narcissistic

businessmen bring ruin on their firms and employees.

Abusing the Narcissist

Narcissists attract abuse. Haughty, exploitative, demanding,

insensitive, and quarrelsome - they tend to draw opprobrium and

provoke anger and even hatred. Sorely lacking in interpersonal

skills, devoid of empathy, and steeped in irksome grandiose

fantasies - they invariably fail to mitigate the irritation and

revolt that they induce in others.

The Cyber Narcissist

To the narcissist, the Internet is an alluring and irresistible

combination of playground and hunting grounds, the gathering place

of numerous potential sources of narcissistic supply, a world where

false identities are the norm and mind games the bon ton. And it is

beyond the reach of the law, the pale of social norms, the

strictures of civilized conduct.

Losing for Granted

It is when loss is tangible - that the narcissist regains his former

zeal and erstwhile fervor. He courts a long neglected wife, invests

himself in a hated job, befriends spurned colleagues, engulfs with

unnatural warmth and empathy offended friends. It is very common,

for instance, for a narcissist to rediscover the joy of sex with an

adulterous partner. It is as though being cheated by his wife (or

husband) rekindles in the narcissist a competitive urge, a

possessive streak, and a perverted carnal pleasure.

The Embarrassing Narcissist

I was convinced that I possess an unerring sense of rhythm until my

wife told me I had none. I thought that my comments, observations,

and insights are original and pithy - until I discovered that I am

numbingly verbose, repetitive, and coarse. I attributed to myself a

great sense of humor until I re-read some of my writings and found

how convoluted and dull my pitiful efforts at being witty were. To

my mind, my prose was arabesque but lucid and incisive. I have since

learned that it is no such thing.

The Labours of the Narcissist

I can't hold a job or even run my own business for very long.

People - co-workers, clients, suppliers - complain that I create

a "bad atmosphere", that I am a "difficult person", that they have

to walk on brittle eggshells lest I explode, humiliate them, expose

their errors and their weaknesses, or simply walk away.

The Opaque Mirror

I keep getting surprised when confronted with reality. My feelings

are hurt, my narcissism injured, my self esteem shaken, my rage

provoked.

For the Love of God

God is everything the narcissist ever wants to be: omnipotent,

omniscient, omnipresent, admired, much discussed, and awe inspiring.

God is the narcissist's wet dream, his ultimate grandiose fantasy.

But God comes handy in other ways as well.

The Delusional Way Out

The narcissist resorts to self-delusion. Unable to completely ignore

contrarian opinion and data - he transmutes them. Unable to face the

dismal failure that he is, the narcissist partially withdraws from

reality. To soothe and salve the pain of disillusionment, he

administers to his aching soul a mixture of lies, distortions, half-

truths and outlandish interpretations of events around him.

Dr. Jackal and Mr. Hide

Narcissists are either cerebral or somatic. In other words, they

either generate their narcissistic supply by applying their bodies

or by applying their minds. The somatic narcissist flaunts his

sexual conquests, parades his possessions, exhibits his muscles,

brags about his physical aesthetics or sexual prowess or exploits,

is often a health freak and a hypochondriac. The cerebral narcissist

is a know-it-all, haughty and intelligent "computer". He uses his

awesome intelligence, or knowledge (real or pretended) to secure

adoration, adulation and admiration.

The Happiness of Others

I spent this Christmas consumed by a paranoid delusion. They were

after me, I knew it. The persecutory images overwhelmed me. I had no

one to talk to. None of those I so gleefully abused, so mercilessly

exposed, so sadistically tormented and so meticulously avoided would

communicate with me any further. I finally entered the terminal

phase of narcissism: excruciating social isolation, the result of

schizoid, paranoid and sado-masochistic behaviours.

The Glass House of the Narcissist

The Narcissist MUST control his environment - human and physical.

His (mental) life depends on it. His sources of supply depend on it.

His sanity depends on it. He cannot afford to lose control.

The Magic of My Thinking

Magical thinking - I believe that I am immune to the outcomes of my

own actions, that I shall always prevail, that good things will

always happen to me.

Narcissist, the Machine

To be a narcissist is to lie to yourself constantly, to hide the

fact that you are lying to yourself from yourself and to conceal

this hiding mechanism as well. It is to feel superior and to treat

others as instruments.

Thanks for the input builder. You and Lethal are very interested in this condition. The condition that interests me most is psychopathy.

There is the element of psychopathic behaviour in the more advanced forms of narcissism. I was victimised by such an animal in the workplace, and now, even at the first sign of narcissism in a new colleague, I pull them up short, and let them know I won't put up with any of their shit, and if they don't stop now, they'll be faciing a restraining order. (or a bullet, but I don't tell them that).

There is the element of psychopathic behaviour in the more advanced forms of narcissism. I was victimised by such an animal in the workplace, and now, even at the first sign of narcissism in a new colleague, I pull them up short, and let them know I won't put up with any of their shit, and if they don't stop now, they'll be faciing a restraining order. (or a bullet, but I don't tell them that).