Employment in America greatest ever under President Bush

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Harry Dope

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Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer




Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
Department Reports

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that the
nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor Department's
report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held steady
at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
considered low by historical standards.

Job gains were logged for professional and business services, education and
health care, leisure and hospitality, and for the government. Those
employment increases more than offset jobs losses in manufacturing,
construction and retail -- casualties of the problems plaguing the housing
market.

The latest snapshot of employment conditions around the country was better
than economists were anticipating. Economists were forecasting payrolls to
grow in October by about half the pace seen -- around 80,000. They did
correctly predict the unemployment rate would be unchanged.

Still, the trend this year has been toward softer job growth. And, that is
beginning to show up in wages.

Average hourly earnings rose to $17.58 in October, a modest 0.2 percent
increase from September. Economists were forecasting a slightly larger, 0.3
percent increase. Over the past 12 months, wages were up 3.8 percent.

Wage growth supports peoples' spending, a major shaper of overall economic
activity.

A faltering job market can crimp wage growth. That could lessen people's
appetite to spend, raising trouble for the economy.

The state of the nation's employment climate is a crucial factor determining
whether the economy will, in fact, weather the financial storm. So far,
decent job creation and solid wage growth have helped to offset some of the
negative forces hitting some individuals from the housing slump, weaker home
values and harder-to-get credit.

To be sure, problems challenging the economy are hitting some industries and
workers hard. The construction industry cut 5,000 jobs, factories slashed
21,000 positions and retailers eliminated nearly 22,000 in October.

But strength in hiring elsewhere blunted those losses. Professional and
business services added 65,000 jobs, education and health care industries
expanded employment by 43,000. Leisure and hospitality added 56,000
positions and the government boosted payrolls by 36,000.

The economy, which grew at a brisk 3.9 percent annual rate in the third
quarter, is expected to slow to about half that pace or less in the current
October-to-December quarter. The toll of the housing collapse and credit
crunch are expected to catch up to consumers and chill their spending.

"The pace of economic expansion will likely slow in the near term, partly
reflecting the intensification of the housing correction," Federal Reserve
policymakers said Wednesday as they decided to lower their key interest rate
again.

The Fed sliced its key rate by one-quarter percentage point to 4.50 percent
to protect the economy from undue economic weakness in the months ahead. It
was the second rate reduction in six weeks. At the same time, the Fed hinted
that it may not need to cut rates again for a while.

As economic growth slows, the unemployment rate probably will creep up to
around 5 percent by the end of this year or early next year, economists say.

Many analysts believe the country will be able to avoid a recession but they
warn that the odds of one occurring have grown since the beginning of this
year.

Complicating the outlook and the Fed's job: surging energy prices. Oil
prices have hit record highs in recent days and are hovering past $95 a
barrel.

If high oil prices boost the costs of many other goods and services,
inflation can spread through the economy. High energy prices also can cause
people and businesses to cut back on other types of spending, putting
another damper on economic growth.


--
Meanwhile, Hillary hires Berger as a consultant on her campaign. Consider
that move in light of what she said regarding the commutation of Scooter
Libby's sentence:
"This commutation sends the clear signal that in this administration,
cronyism and ideology trump competence and justice."- Sen. Hillary Rodham
Clinton, D-N.Y.
 
"Hairy Hater" <Ahole@aol.com> wrote in message
news:472b2b3e$0$11476$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.


That's right folks, when you lose your good paying IT job to someone in
Calcutta, you can sign up for RETRAINING! (In some countires it's called
re-education and is conducted in cozy camp environment.)

You can signup for such exciting careers like:
> French fry machine operator Bedpan santitation technician Telemarketer
> Drive-thru sales associate Wal-Mart Greeter War casualty Can collector

....and many more, all from our prestigious non-accredited free-trade
University. Operators (in India) are standing by! Call now.
 
On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
>
> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
> Department Reports
>
> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that the
> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor Department's
> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held steady
> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
> considered low by historical standards.
>

Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...

BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.

The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
standards for everything.
 
milt.shook@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
>> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
>> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
>>
>> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
>> Department Reports
>>
>> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
>> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that the
>> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
>> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor Department's
>> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held steady
>> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
>> considered low by historical standards.
>>

> Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...
>
> BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
> unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
> more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
> factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
> Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.
>
> The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
> twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
> standards for everything.
>

Also, if you scanned the job listings,saw they were all minimum wage
jobs and did not apply you are not considered to be unemployed.
Just for fun I have the SF Chronicle here. They have about 100 job
and. 5 of them require some type of professional training. I assume that
the sales jobs that never mention the product or service are things like
setting appointments for home repair firms.
 
On Nov 2, 11:22 am, "Doorman" <astroinc_NOS...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> <milt.sh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194015345.892288.44750@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
> >> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
> >> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer

>
> >> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
> >> Department Reports

>
> >> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
> >> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that the
> >> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
> >> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor Department's
> >> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held
> >> steady
> >> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
> >> considered low by historical standards.

>
> > Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...

>
> > BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
> > unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
> > more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
> > factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
> > Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.

>
> > The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
> > twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
> > standards for everything.

>
> Liberal standards....
>
> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance
> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages
> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
> competition
> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class
> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
> percentage of poor...what good did it do?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



-------
 
Doorman wrote:
> <milt.shook@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1194015345.892288.44750@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
>>> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
>>> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
>>>
>>> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
>>> Department Reports
>>>
>>> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
>>> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that the
>>> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
>>> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor Department's
>>> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held
>>> steady
>>> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
>>> considered low by historical standards.
>>>

>> Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...
>>
>> BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
>> unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
>> more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
>> factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
>> Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.
>>
>> The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
>> twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
>> standards for everything.
>>

>
> Liberal standards....
>
> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance
> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages
> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
> competition
> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class
> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
> percentage of poor...what good did it do?
>
>


As usual, doorman can not address the issue at hand.
 
On Nov 2, 12:22 pm, "Doorman" <astroinc_NOS...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> <milt.sh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194015345.892288.44750@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
> >> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
> >> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer

>
> >> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
> >> Department Reports

>
> >> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
> >> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that the
> >> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
> >> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor Department's
> >> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held
> >> steady
> >> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
> >> considered low by historical standards.

>
> > Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...

>
> > BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
> > unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
> > more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
> > factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
> > Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.

>
> > The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
> > twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
> > standards for everything.

>
> Liberal standards....
>
> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance
> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages
> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
> competition
> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class
> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
> percentage of poor...what good did it do?


Once again, make at least an attempt to answer the question posed.
 
Kevin Cunningham wrote:
> On Nov 2, 12:22 pm, "Doorman" <astroinc_NOS...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> <milt.sh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1194015345.892288.44750@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
>>>> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
>>>> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
>>>> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
>>>> Department Reports
>>>> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
>>>> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that the
>>>> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
>>>> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor Department's
>>>> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held
>>>> steady
>>>> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
>>>> considered low by historical standards.
>>> Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...
>>> BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
>>> unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
>>> more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
>>> factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
>>> Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.
>>> The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
>>> twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
>>> standards for everything.

>> Liberal standards....
>>
>> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance
>> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages
>> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
>> competition
>> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class
>> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
>> percentage of poor...what good did it do?

>
> Once again, make at least an attempt to answer the question posed.
>

His standard replies are:

Change the topic
Post links that have no bearing on his claims.
Kill filing he questioners.
 
<milt.shook@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194015345.892288.44750@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
>> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
>> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
>>
>> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
>> Department Reports
>>
>> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
>> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that the
>> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
>> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor Department's
>> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held
>> steady
>> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
>> considered low by historical standards.
>>

> Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...
>
> BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
> unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
> more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
> factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
> Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.
>
> The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
> twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
> standards for everything.
>


Liberal standards....

Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance
Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages
Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
competition
Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class
Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
percentage of poor...what good did it do?
 
"Doorman" <astroinc_NOSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:XfHWi.48746$q7.19344@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> Liberal standards....
>
> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance
> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages
> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
> competition
> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class
> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
> percentage of poor...what good did it do?


You are bent in the head. Welfare is a republican invention. Pumping huge
amounts of taxpayer money into the Bush Family and their failed corporations
is the republican values way.
 
On Nov 2, 12:22 pm, "Doorman" <astroinc_NOS...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> <milt.sh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194015345.892288.44750@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
> >> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
> >> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer

>
> >> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
> >> Department Reports

>
> >> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
> >> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that the
> >> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
> >> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor Department's
> >> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held
> >> steady
> >> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
> >> considered low by historical standards.

>
> > Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...

>
> > BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
> > unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
> > more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
> > factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
> > Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.

>
> > The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
> > twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
> > standards for everything.

>
> Liberal standards....
>
> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance


Untrue. The purpose of affirmative action is to equalize the built-in
advantages white men have in the workplace.

> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages


I beg to differ. We liberals aren't bringing illegals here to work,
neocon business owners are. And we think everyone who works should be
paid a living wage.

> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
> competition


Vouchers would probably result in lower standards, and decrease
oversight. I would rather increase standards in public schools, but
for ALL schools, not just the ones in nice neighborhoods.

> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class


Also untrue. Most welfare goes to the rich, and most tax cuts go to
the rich. And might I point out that Democrats are the ones trying to
abolish the AMT, while the Republicans did nothing about it for ten
years. THAT is the tax that reduces the upper middle class to the
middle class.

> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
> percentage of poor...what good did it do?


Okay, the 5 trillion figure is absurd; we haven't spend nearly that
much on welfare for the poor. And for every dollar of welfare that
goes to the poor, ten dollars goes to rich corporate interests, and
the Republicans keep blocking them.

So, do you always have to make things up to stay in a debate?
 
Doorman wrote:
> "Chauncy W. Bush" <AbbuBush@WH.net> wrote in message
> news:gDIWi.65948$YL5.45661@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>> "Doorman" <astroinc_NOSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:XfHWi.48746$q7.19344@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>>> Liberal standards....
>>>
>>> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance
>>> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages
>>> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
>>> competition
>>> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class
>>> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
>>> percentage of poor...what good did it do?

>> You are bent in the head. Welfare is a republican invention. Pumping
>> huge amounts of taxpayer money into the Bush Family and their failed
>> corporations is the republican values way.
>>

>
> killfile.
>
>


Translation: Doorman can not address the issue.
 
"Chauncy W. Bush" <AbbuBush@WH.net> wrote in message
news:gDIWi.65948$YL5.45661@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Doorman" <astroinc_NOSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:XfHWi.48746$q7.19344@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>> Liberal standards....
>>
>> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance
>> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages
>> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
>> competition
>> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class
>> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
>> percentage of poor...what good did it do?

>
> You are bent in the head. Welfare is a republican invention. Pumping
> huge amounts of taxpayer money into the Bush Family and their failed
> corporations is the republican values way.
>


killfile.
 
<milt.shook@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194024174.470072.203000@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 2, 12:22 pm, "Doorman" <astroinc_NOS...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> <milt.sh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1194015345.892288.44750@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
>> >> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
>> >> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer

>>
>> >> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
>> >> Department Reports

>>
>> >> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
>> >> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that
>> >> the
>> >> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
>> >> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor
>> >> Department's
>> >> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held
>> >> steady
>> >> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
>> >> considered low by historical standards.

>>
>> > Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...

>>
>> > BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
>> > unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
>> > more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
>> > factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
>> > Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.

>>
>> > The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
>> > twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
>> > standards for everything.

>>
>> Liberal standards....
>>
>> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance

>
> Untrue. The purpose of affirmative action is to equalize the built-in
> advantages white men have in the workplace.
>


Colleges are now reversing affirmative action because of the low graduation
rate of the affirmative action slots. They have empty seats because of the
60% dropout rate. People that pass the test drop out at only a 20% rate.

If the workplace requires a terst, the standards are lowered under
affirmative action. Or the test is ignored. Either way, people that
normally couldn't qualify are given the opportunity.

Hard work and luck are two things that equalize the chances of success.


>> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages

>
> I beg to differ. We liberals aren't bringing illegals here to work,
> neocon business owners are. And we think everyone who works should be
> paid a living wage.
>


The party that objects to a fence, is the democrat party.

We think that each person is paid what they are worth. If you choose to
drop out of high school, and smoke pot for 10 years, how much are you worth?

Is a living wage you speak of the same for an 16 year old teenager, as it is
for a coollege educated man, married, with 2 kids? How much is the wage if
the teenager has no work experience?

The democrat party is the party of big government, and big business is
intertwined with big government, such as Halliburton. Murtha earmaked close
to 2 billion dollars to defense industry over the span of his tenure in the
congress. I'd say he likes big business, and the military industrial
complex.

Nothing in politics is 100%

>> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
>> competition

>
> Vouchers would probably result in lower standards, and decrease
> oversight. I would rather increase standards in public schools, but
> for ALL schools, not just the ones in nice neighborhoods.
>


Lower standards for who? Parents are the oversight. In your nanny state
world, the government is the parent. Each state has a test kids must pass
whether they home school, in private schools, etc.

How do you increase standards in public schools if they're a monopoly? The
congress routinely objects to business consolidation due to claims of
monopolistic tendencies...lower quality, higher prices, less competition.
Why is a monopoly bad in business, but good in schools? Doesn't competition
stimulate better performance? Baseballl, football...if there was only one
team, who would win?



>> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class

>
> Also untrue. Most welfare goes to the rich, and most tax cuts go to
> the rich. And might I point out that Democrats are the ones trying to
> abolish the AMT, while the Republicans did nothing about it for ten
> years. THAT is the tax that reduces the upper middle class to the
> middle class.
>


The poor that pay no taxes, can't get a tax cut.
AMT must go...but in doing so, the democrats want to get rid of a $85
billion AMT tax, and replace it with 1 trillion in new taxes....
Welfare entitlement programs have taken 5 trillion for one sector and given
it to another. Your "rich tax cuts"...they earned the money...the welfare
recipients didn't "earn" anything.


>> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
>> percentage of poor...what good did it do?

>
> Okay, the 5 trillion figure is absurd; we haven't spend nearly that
> much on welfare for the poor. And for every dollar of welfare that
> goes to the poor, ten dollars goes to rich corporate interests, and
> the Republicans keep blocking them.
>


You are either an ignorant teenager, or just plain stupid. Pay attention to
the news sometime. I'll give you a link, but from now on, look it up before
you come here and waste our time.

I stand corrected, it's 7.9 trillion since the 60's.

Despite this long-term improvement in living conditions, interest in the
alternative approach focusing on the "redistribution of incomes" remains
strong. Indeed, the drive to create greater economic and income equality
between the apparent haves and have nots has been an enduring theme in the
political realm of the 20th century. For example, the desire to level
incomes was an important but deliberately unstated goal behind Lyndon
Johnson's launch of the War on Poverty.4 Since its initiation in the
mid-1960s, U.S. taxpayers have spent $7.9 trillion on federal welfare
programs, often with lamentable social side effects. Nonetheless, the
pressure toward equalizing incomes continues unabated, and the issues of
economic equality are intertwined with many other public policy debates.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Labor/CDA99-07.cfm
 
On Nov 2, 3:29 pm, "Doorman" <astroinc_NOS...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> <milt.sh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194024174.470072.203000@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Nov 2, 12:22 pm, "Doorman" <astroinc_NOS...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> <milt.sh...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >>news:1194015345.892288.44750@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

>
> >> > On Nov 2, 9:50 am, "Harry Dope" <H...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.
> >> >> Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
> >> >> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer

>
> >> >> Payrolls Grow by 166,000 in October, Jobless Rate Holds Steady, Labor
> >> >> Department Reports

>
> >> >> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Employers boosted payrolls by a surprisingly strong
> >> >> 166,000 in October, the most in five months, an encouraging sign that
> >> >> the
> >> >> nation's employment climate is holding up relatively well against the
> >> >> strains of a housing collapse and credit crunch. The Labor
> >> >> Department's
> >> >> report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate held
> >> >> steady
> >> >> at 4.7 percent for the second month in a row. It's a figure that is
> >> >> considered low by historical standards.

>
> >> > Which just goes to show how low neocons' standards actually are...

>
> >> > BTW, the unemployment rate only includes those eligible for
> >> > unemployment insurance payments. it does not include those unemployed
> >> > more than 26 weeks who can't find work, or those who lost their
> >> > factory job paying $25 an hour, and have had to settle for a job at
> >> > Mickey D's making $6.50 an hour.

>
> >> > The actual rate is much higher than 4.7%, and frankly, 4.7% is about
> >> > twice what it should be. But then, the neocons have lowered our
> >> > standards for everything.

>
> >> Liberal standards....

>
> >> Affirmative action...to lower the standards for acceptance

>
> > Untrue. The purpose of affirmative action is to equalize the built-in
> > advantages white men have in the workplace.

>
> Colleges are now reversing affirmative action because of the low graduation
> rate of the affirmative action slots. They have empty seats because of the
> 60% dropout rate. People that pass the test drop out at only a 20% rate.


What test? There is no affirmative action "test." As for the rest of
it, I happen to know that more than 50% of all college freshmen will
not get a degree.

http://www.boston.com/news/educatio...e_graduation_rates_show_increase_report_says/

The graduation rate is a little higher for private colleges, but not
by much; I think it's about 55% or so.

Therefore, even if I wasn't absolutely certain you didn't just pull
that 60% "dropout rate" out of the same ample anus from which you
pulled the so-called 'affirmative action test," the 60% rate is only
marginally higher than the overall rate.
>
> If the workplace requires a terst, the standards are lowered under
> affirmative action. Or the test is ignored. Either way, people that
> normally couldn't qualify are given the opportunity.


Actually, there is not such thing as a "test." Employers who find
themselves under affirmative action guidelines are required to give a
little extra consideration to certain factors among two equally
qualified applicants, but there is no requirement that anyone hire
someone with less qualifications.

Another one freshly smelling of excrement.
>
> Hard work and luck are two things that equalize the chances of success.
>
> >> Illegal Immigration...workers here working at lower wages

>
> > I beg to differ. We liberals aren't bringing illegals here to work,
> > neocon business owners are. And we think everyone who works should be
> > paid a living wage.

>
> The party that objects to a fence, is the democrat party.


I don't know any liberals who are against a fence except based on the
principle that a fence is stupid and won't work. You know why? Can you
guess why?

It's because the vast majority of illegals don't sneak over the
border.

Better sit down, because here's a shocker for you. Less than half of
all illegals are from Mexico or points south. And of the Latinos that
come over illegally, only about 20% of them sneak over the border.
MOST illegals come here legally and then stay longer than their visa
allows.

So, basically, out of the estimated 15 million or so illegals, maybe 2
million snuck over the border. And if it was possible to build a fence
that could keep them out (as Governor Napolitano put it so famously
once, "show me a 50-foot high fence,a nd I'll show you a 51 foot
ladder), most would just come over legal border crossings and
disappear.

The immigration problem is only partly the porous border. The BIG
problem is that we do immigration on the cheap, and we do little to
nothing to keep track of the people who come over here.
>
> We think that each person is paid what they are worth. If you choose to
> drop out of high school, and smoke pot for 10 years, how much are you worth?


Most people are not paid what they're worth. They're paid as little as
an employer can get away with. And as long as employers (many of whom
are republicans who support Bush, btw) can get away with hiring
illegals for **** pay, they will. if there was nothing to do once they
got here, you wouldn't need a fence... kapiche?
>
> Is a living wage you speak of the same for an 16 year old teenager, as it is
> for a coollege educated man, married, with 2 kids? How much is the wage if
> the teenager has no work experience?


It doesn't matter. You keep making these arbitrary distinctions, but
let me turn it around; how much CEO pay is too much? if the CEO of a
large retail company is getting $20 million per year, and his company
is making net profits of well over $40 billion, but a couple of
million of his employees make so little that they qualify for food
stamps and Medicaid, why doesn't it make any sense to rectify that
problem?

We have the lowest minimum wage in the industrialized world, and as a
result, we have more working people on welfare than any other country.
You don't see a problem with that?
>
> The democrat party is the party of big government, and big business is
> intertwined with big government, such as Halliburton. Murtha earmaked close
> to 2 billion dollars to defense industry over the span of his tenure in the
> congress. I'd say he likes big business, and the military industrial
> complex.


Gee whiz... $2 billion dollars over nearly 17 terms on Congress? He's
a piker. That's not a lot of money. Over the last 34 years, this
country has spent somewhere upwards of $10 trillion on defense, and
Jack Murtha, who is a hawk on defense, got $2 billion of that? Sounds
like he should be more of a hawk. I bet ted Kennedy got more defense
money than that...
>
> Nothing in politics is 100%


Never said it was.

Although you're close to 100% wrong.
>
> >> Vouchers, opposed by liberals, would increase standards for schools,
> >> competition

>
> > Vouchers would probably result in lower standards, and decrease
> > oversight. I would rather increase standards in public schools, but
> > for ALL schools, not just the ones in nice neighborhoods.

>
> Lower standards for who? Parents are the oversight. In your nanny state
> world, the government is the parent. Each state has a test kids must pass
> whether they home school, in private schools, etc.


A text that has zero basis in reality. And it would lower standards.
You can't imagine schools just popping up out of the blue, so they can
get a little bit of that voucher money and then scurry off? And the
tests are a joke. they don't demonstrate learning; they demonstrate
how well teachers are at teaching their kids to pass that test and
nothing more.

Public schools are fixable, but it's going to take a recognition that
some schools were underfunded for the better part of a half century,
and states need to play catch up.
>
> How do you increase standards in public schools if they're a monopoly?


Gawd, how many centuries do I have to refute this before you retards
get the fact that schools are not a goddamn business! And even if they
were, there are thousands of school districts in the country, and
parents in every community have the right to make even more.
therefore, there is no monopoly whatsoever. And if parents want to put
their kids in private school, they are more than welcome to it. We
just don't want to pay for it is all.

You know what's stupid about the voucher argument?

Imagine that instead of an education, the government was providing
free food for everyone. You're arguing that everyone getting free food
should be entitled to steak.

Parents don't pay for public education; most of the money comes from
property taxes, and businesses pay the bulk of property taxes. If
you're a family with two kids, living in a modest house, you're
demanding that the government give you something around $4-5000 per
kid in education vouchers, when you don't pay nearly that much in a
year. And yet, you whine and cry because single mothers living in the
inner cities get a $1000 or so in welfare payments every month, just
to keep themselves and their kids alive.

Vouchers = welfare. That means you're in favor of welfare.

> The
> congress routinely objects to business consolidation due to claims of
> monopolistic tendencies...lower quality, higher prices, less competition.
> Why is a monopoly bad in business, but good in schools? Doesn't competition
> stimulate better performance?


This has to be the funniest thing I have ever seen. you must have
memorized the right wing talking points exactly as given, without any
thought as to how stupid they are.

1. As I've shown, there is no monopoly.
2. Public schools are not a business.
3. Competition does NOT automatically stimulate better performance. if
unregulated, it results in severe cost cutting, and a reduction in
quality and performance. i mean, have you even SET FOOT in a retail
store in the last decade or so? Most companies compete on the basis of
how much money they can save...

> Baseballl, football...if there was only one
> team, who would win?


Why is the antitrust exemption so important to baseball again?
>
> >> Tax the upper middle class down to the middle class

>
> > Also untrue. Most welfare goes to the rich, and most tax cuts go to
> > the rich. And might I point out that Democrats are the ones trying to
> > abolish the AMT, while the Republicans did nothing about it for ten
> > years. THAT is the tax that reduces the upper middle class to the
> > middle class.

>
> The poor that pay no taxes, can't get a tax cut.


Gawd, why do you people keep repeating this crap? NO ONE pays ZERO
taxes! the poor pay no INCOME taxes. To say they don't pay any taxes
is just plain ignorant, especially given the fact that your buddies in
the GOP have been whining about the cigarette tax at the heart of the
S-CHIP expansion bill. The Republicans whining about this keep
feigning concern about how the poor will be hit hard by that tax
increase. Kinda strange, since they don't PAY any taxes.

> AMT must go...but in doing so, the democrats want to get rid of a $85
> billion AMT tax, and replace it with 1 trillion in new taxes....


That's $85 billion PER YEAR, while the $1 trillion is over TEN YEARS.
Nice spin. And it's also fiscally responsible; imagine that. They get
rid of a debilitating tax that will cost the feds $85 billion per
year, and take measures to replace it, and also cut the deficit. Go
figure, huh?

> Welfare entitlement programs have taken 5 trillion for one sector and given
> it to another. Your "rich tax cuts"...they earned the money...the welfare
> recipients didn't "earn" anything.


Welfare programs have not cost anything close to $5 trillion. I have
been refuting this ridiculous claim for 6-7 years or more. Please cite
some credible figures, WITHOUT including Social Security, Medicare, or
college financial aid.

>
> >> Perpetual welfare state transfers 5 trillion to poor over 30 years, same
> >> percentage of poor...what good did it do?

>
> > Okay, the 5 trillion figure is absurd; we haven't spend nearly that
> > much on welfare for the poor. And for every dollar of welfare that
> > goes to the poor, ten dollars goes to rich corporate interests, and
> > the Republicans keep blocking them.

>
> You are either an ignorant teenager, or just plain stupid. Pay attention to
> the news sometime. I'll give you a link, but from now on, look it up before
> you come here and waste our time.
>
> I stand corrected, it's 7.9 trillion since the 60's.


And it's still not even close to that.
>
> Despite this long-term improvement in living conditions, interest in the
> alternative approach focusing on the "redistribution of incomes" remains
> strong. Indeed, the drive to create greater economic and income equality
> between the apparent haves and have nots has been an enduring theme in the
> political realm of the 20th century. For example, the desire to level
> incomes was an important but deliberately unstated goal behind Lyndon
> Johnson's launch of the War on Poverty.4 Since its initiation in the
> mid-1960s, U.S. taxpayers have spent $7.9 trillion on federal welfare
> programs, often with lamentable social side effects. Nonetheless, the
> pressure toward equalizing incomes continues unabated, and the issues of
> economic equality are intertwined with many other public policy debates.
>
> http://www.heritage.org/Research/Labor/CDA99-07.cfm


Ah, the heritage Foundation. I said credible. Welfare programs have
not costs anywhere near that much, UNLESS Social Security, Medicare
and college financial aid are included.
 
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:50:44 -0400, Harry Dope wrote:

> Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct. Friday November 2, 8:56 am ET
> By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer
>


Dope continues to demonstrate that there is no shortage of ignorance in
in conservative circles.
 
On Nov 2, 10:20 am, "Chauncy W. Bush" <AbbuB...@WH.net> wrote:
> "Hairy Hater" <Ah...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:472b2b3e$0$11476$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> > Payrolls Grow by Strong 166,000 in Oct.

>
> That's right folks, when you lose your good paying IT job to someone in
> Calcutta, you can sign up for RETRAINING! (In some countires it's called
> re-education and is conducted in cozy camp environment.)
>
> You can signup for such exciting careers like:> French fry machine operator Bedpan santitation technician Telemarketer
> > Drive-thru sales associate Wal-Mart Greeter War casualty Can collector

>
> ...and many more, all from our prestigious non-accredited free-trade
> University. Operators (in India) are standing by! Call now.



Exactly.
The strong employment and payroll figures are part
of the Alice in Wonderland Bushian pretense. Bush has
a pretend foreign policy, a pretend economy,
a pretend health care and pretend education.

In each instance a small coterie of profiteers or
insiders profits handsomely at the expense of everyone
else.

And in each sector, an army of media disinformation specialists
is busily at work convincing everyone how great things are,
employment rosy, education no child left behind
and the surge is working and health care is just dandy.
And they have plenty of pretend statistics to prove it!

Whenever popular discontent rises (like right now) the
media immediately switch over to major issues such
as Brittany Spears, Anna Nicole Simpson and a pathetic
loser named OJ Simpson.

But after doing these tricks for nearly 8 years, citizens
are starting to catch on.

The revolt at the polls in 08 is only the beginning.
And if the politicians continue in their deceptive
ways, even more political changes - changes
that proscribe and circumscrbe their powers, may result.

Citizen Jimserac
30 Year Software career ended - Outsourced, Dec. 2004.
 
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