Ethanol is a joke.

[ImWithStupid]

It's long been known that it costs more to make ethanol than gas and actually uses more energy to produce than you get out of it, and the only reason that it continues in the US is because the federal government gives subsidies to the ethanol producers to make it profitable. Now using all the land for a fuel that costs more and is a negative energy producer, the food supply is being affected. The ag secretary said that for the first time in history the US will have to import wheat. There are limits on the amount of rice you can buy at some stores and the price of rice has increased 70%.

When is Washington going to give up on the financial, economic and energy black hole that is corn ethanol?

Biofuels starving our people, leaders tell UN
The leaders of Bolivia and Peru have attacked the use of biofuels, saying they have made food too expensive for the poor.

Speaking at the United Nations, the Bolivian president, Evo Morales, said the increased use of farmland for fuel crops was causing a "tremendous increase" in food prices.

The Reuters news agency reported that the Peruvian president, Alan Garcia, called on developed countries to grow more food. In the last few months, food prices in Peru have run ahead of the country's general rate of inflation.

Their attack coincided with a report published today by the environmental group Friends of the Earth warning the EU of the perils of expanding biofuel use in Latin America. Last year the EU agreed on a target of 10% biofuel use for transport by 2020.

The report says the certification schemes being set up by some South American countries to ensure sustainable production of sugar cane and soya bean crops are not enough to prevent damage to the environment and "fail to address the biggest problems" caused by the cultivation of land currently covered by forests or smaller farms.

In his UN comments, Morales criticised "some South American presidents" for pushing biofuels. The Bolivian president did not name them but his views are in sharp contrast to those of the Brazilian president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, who has said developing countries have enough land to produce both food and biofuels.

Biofuels starving our people, leaders tell UN | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Now we can't export as much grain overseas or give as much food to poor nations, which is causing prices to rise worldwide, it's only obvious that this horrible energy policy that is affecting food production and prices is going to further cause foreign nations to hate the US.

I say, "Give up on grain ethanol and put the money to R&D for more viable alternative energy sources."

 

[hugo]

I'm just glad it is corn and not barley.

 

[ImWithStupid]

I'm just glad it is corn and not barley.

Not yet.

 

[wez]

Ethanol is a joke... But oil is about to hit $120 a barrel.. Appears we've been shooting at someone in the gulf.

Oil prices up on word US ship fired on boats in Persian Gulf - MSNBC Wire Services - MSNBC.com

Seems it's those **** Iranians..

Oil tops $119 after report of Iranian boat firing - Oil & energy - MSNBC.com

No worries.. everyone except me should be getting those rebate/economic incentive/loan from China checks pretty quick.

 

[sheik-yerbouti]

It's long been known that it costs more to make ethanol than gas and actually uses more energy to produce than you get out of it, and the only reason that it continues in the US is because the federal government gives subsidies to the ethanol producers to make it profitable. Now using all the land for a fuel that costs more and is a negative energy producer, the food supply is being affected. The ag secretary said that for the first time in history the US will have to import wheat. There are limits on the amount of rice you can buy at some stores and the price of rice has increased 70%.
When is Washington going to give up on the financial, economic and energy black hole that is corn ethanol?

Biofuels starving our people, leaders tell UN | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Now we can't export as much grain overseas or give as much food to poor nations, which is causing prices to rise worldwide, it's only obvious that this horrible energy policy that is affecting food production and prices is going to further cause foreign nations to hate the US.

I say, "Give up on grain ethanol and put the money to R&D for more viable alternative energy sources."

How ironic that the West gives billions in foreign aid to help poor people in the developing world. Yet another branch of govt seeks to promote carbon neutral car travel, and that may cost millions of lives - of the very people who were targeted for aid.

Could this eventuality not be foreseen ?

Why on earth do they pay advisers , and managers etc vast salaries, when they cant do any better than Joe Public at future policies impact.

 

[phreakwars]

Maybe they did foresee this, maybe that was all part of the master plan. Wipe out the third world countries first by starvation, then tap their resources.

I have always been pro farmer, I have never been pro ethanol. I liked the ideas coming from those Nebraska politicians/former head coaches about increasing money for agriculture producers in the corn states, however, I only agree because a surplus stock ensures lower food prices for all of us in the end.

What do we even get out of ethanol anyway? a small 15% addition into regular gas, or an 85% mixture in our cars and it runs like ****.

gas with ethanol in it is only good for winter months, it helps keep gas lines from freezing. But myself, I'd rather dump in a can of STP or HEET.

It's the same **** thing.

Not to mention, your fuel economy actually goes DOWN with e85 (I'll have to look for the link showing the test), so although it would be cheaper at the pump, mile for mile, it's not much different.

But factor in the GLOBAL impact of just making the stuff, that cheaper e85 is probably costing you more in the broader spectrum of things.

I say we all boycott e85.

.

.

 

[hugo]

The major reason for the rising price of commodities is the expansionary growth of the economies of China and India. Nearly 2 billion people are now entering an era of meat eating and car driving. Supply cannot keep up with rising demand. It takes seven pounds of grains to produce one pound of meat. Ethanol adds fuel to the fire.

 

[Old Salt]

The major reason for the rising price of commodities is the expansionary growth of the economies of China and India. Nearly 2 billion people are now entering an era of meat eating and car driving. Supply cannot keep up with rising demand. It takes seven pounds of grains to produce one pound of meat. Ethanol adds fuel to the fire.

It only takes three pounds of grain for a pound of pork, though.

 

[Old Salt]

I just watched at article on CNN Eco Solutions. Seems Sony (or maybe it was Sanyo) is working on making plastic casings for their products out of corn and batteries out of sugar so they can be recycled more easily. Looks like corn is going to get even more expensive, if this works out.

 

[Old Salt]

Vertigro Algae Research and Development Center Begins Operation

Vertigro Algae Research and Development Center Begins OperationEl Paso, Texas [RenewableEnergyAccess.com]

The laboratory is up and running at the Vertigro algae technology research and development center in El Paso, Texas. The Vertigro process, a joint venture between Global Green Solutions Inc. and Valcent Products Inc., is now mass producing rapidly-growing algae to be used as biofuel feedstock.

"We believe we will be able to target the exact species of algae most perfectly suited to the end product for which it is used...With this knowledge, we will be able to grow specific species in virtually any environment and maximize the algal oil and biomass produced."

--Glen Kertz, principal scientist for the Vertigro Project

Since commencing operation, results from bioreactor tests have been extremely positive, noted Glen Kertz, principal scientist for the Vertigro project. "We have proven that our closed loop bioreactor system can successfully produce algae over an extended period," Kertz said.

 

[Old Salt]

It's long been known that it costs more to make ethanol than gas and actually uses more energy to produce than you get out of it, and the only reason that it continues in the US is because the federal government gives subsidies to the ethanol producers to make it profitable. Now using all the land for a fuel that costs more and is a negative energy producer, the food supply is being affected. The ag secretary said that for the first time in history the US will have to import wheat. There are limits on the amount of rice you can buy at some stores and the price of rice has increased 70%.


When is Washington going to give up on the financial, economic and energy black hole that is corn ethanol?

Biofuels starving our people, leaders tell UN | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Now we can't export as much grain overseas or give as much food to poor nations, which is causing prices to rise worldwide, it's only obvious that this horrible energy policy that is affecting food production and prices is going to further cause foreign nations to hate the US.

I say, "Give up on grain ethanol and put the money to R&D for more viable alternative energy sources."

CNN is now reporting that the price of rice has doubled in the past month.

 

[hugo]

I think the real answer is a combination of solar, wind, hydroelectric, nuclear H2 fuel cell and other non-hydrocarbon based energy sources.

 

[Old Salt]

I think the real answer is a combination of solar, wind, hydroelectric, nuclear H2 fuel cell and other non-hydrocarbon based energy sources.

It has to be. While I'm a little bit nervous about nuclear reactors near known fault lines, solar, wind, and hydro-electric would work well there. I'd love to see fuel cells developed for cars although "they" may be able to develop other forms of energy for cars. The problem is that there's still so much profit in oil but the oil companies aren't looking past the end of their noses. They are in the perfect position to develop and monopolize alternate forms of energy just the way they do with oil now.

 

[snafu]

Ethanol can be a viable source of energy. They just need to spend the money on research. They are researching microbs and Bactria's. They are researching fungus that can reproduce it's self as a medium for ethanol. They also have discovered grass, switch grass and other none edible plants that grow in desert like atmospheres that can be made into ethanol.

So really it's not a joke. What's a joke is that we don't spend the money to elevate us from our oil addiction.

I'm contimplating on making my own ethanol from wood at first. I can use it for the starch and also the fuel to brew it. Next I will try potatos.

Fungus Genome Sequenced To Be Harnessed For Improved Biofuels Production ~ Tech News Watch

Ethanol Forums. Everything Ethanol - View topic - Microbes, bacteria and enzymes to produce affordable ethanol

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Grass biofuels 'cut CO2 by 94%'

Ethanol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[snafu]

Bioenergy pact between Europe and Africa

[Converts waste to raw materialBeing able to convert sulfite lye for the production of ethanol is good news, in both economic and environmental terms. Sulfite lye, which is a byproduct of the production of paper and viscose pulp, is difficult for factories to dispose of since it contains chemicals that must not be casually released in nature. From being a highly undesirable byproduct for the paper industry, sulfite lye will now be an attractive raw material for the extraction of ethanol:

 

[Old Salt]

Ethanol can be a viable source of energy. They just need to spend the money on research. They are researching microbs and Bactria's. They are researching fungus that can reproduce it's self as a medium for ethanol. They also have discovered grass, switch grass and other none edible plants that grow in desert like atmospheres that can be made into ethanol. So really it's not a joke. What's a joke is that we don't spend the money to elevate us from our oil addiction.

I'm contimplating on making my own ethanol from wood at first. I can use it for the starch and also the fuel to brew it. Next I will try potatos.

Fungus Genome Sequenced To Be Harnessed For Improved Biofuels Production ~ Tech News Watch

Ethanol Forums. Everything Ethanol - View topic - Microbes, bacteria and enzymes to produce affordable ethanol

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Grass biofuels 'cut CO2 by 94%'

Ethanol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wood may be fine for private ethanol production, but if it were to be used commercially you would see the price of building products soar just like food prices from using corn. Grasses make a much better choice as long as suppliers don't start using crop land to grow them. Of course, a completely different source of energy than oil is a much better solution in the long run. Short term - there are too many old cars on the road and too many old power plants generating electricity for it to be a short-term solution.

 

[snafu]

Yeah I plan on using the wood becuse we have some land we need to clear and so we've got a lot of it. But once thats gone I would need to plant something that grows good up here. Corn dosn't do good enough so potatos would be the next option.

 

[snafu]

Or why use any fuels at all? Check this out. The Cyccone Magnetic Engine.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/cheng2.htm

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/cheng2.htm

 

[Old Salt]

And at the bottom of the page:

The clinker is that field shields are never "magical" in their operation. They still must obey Newton's third law, which ensures that when a shield is acted upon by forces due other parts of the system, then the shield in turn exerts equal size and oppositely directed forces on those parts of the system. Perpetual motion machine designers seldom even consider Newton's third law, yet it is the law of nature that dooms their efforts.
?Donald E. Simanek

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