K
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
Guest
And you thought it couldn't happen here.
First one of these assholes who tries to search this old
hillbilly . . . . .
Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 10:25:34 PM PDT
Welcome to another creeping slide towards the big brother state. On
August 2, 2007 over two dozen agents of the TSA setup two checkpoints
at bus stops in Indianapolis Indiana and searched passengers who
wanted to ride on city buses. Federal agents, including Air Marshals
were present and patted people down, looked in bags, and performed
"behavior" tests for the stated purpose of finding weapons and people
who were a threat to public safety.
Before you think I am joking, let me refer to both the Indianapolis
Star report TSA checks IndyGo bus passengers as well as posted first
person reports of what happened yesterday and why it effects us all.
UPDATE: Thanks to DailyKos readers, this has been found to be a part
of an 18 month old Federal Operation, read more below!
BlueDotRedField's diary :: ::
The first reports I heard of something going on yesterday seemed like
a bloggin hoax:
Anybody know what's going on? There are TSA stations with about 20
agents each set up in at least two spots in downtown Indy, 1 is near
Capitol and Market, the other is near the federal building. They're
stopping and searching people getting on and off city busses and
travelling on the street. This is going a little too far. Where
exactly did this authority come from?
(reference: Feds searching people in Indy )
I thought this had to be a hoax since the TSA surely had better things
to do than hassle people riding buses in a major US city. But over
the day more and more reports came in confirming that not only were
searches being made, but that they were being made by federal agents
(including Air Marshals) and that many agencies were involved.
Then came a report from the Indianapolis Star, which said:
Screeners from the Transportation Security Administration checked
passengers at two Downtown city bus stops this morning, looking for
weapons and suspicious behavior.
David Kane, federal security director for TSA in Indianapolis, called
it a "VIPR" operation.
"It's called Visual Intermodal Prevention Response. We have
plainclothes inspectors, blue-gloved uniformed security officers who
are checking baggage, the behavior detection officers, and federal air
marshals, which are the law enforcement arm of TSA."
Security stations were set up at bus stops at Capitol Avenue and
Market Street, and Ohio and Meridian streets.
Some passengers were patted down or submitted to having bags checked.
TSA said the searches were "by-permission," meaning patrons could
decline to be checked. Those who did would not be turned away, an
official said, unless they otherwise appeared to be a security
threat.
(reference: TSA checks IndyGo bus passengers )
So to be clear, 20 or more agents of the federal government came to
Indianapolis, downtown, and setup two search stops for those wanting
to ride the bus. People could decline, legally, but only if the knew
they could. Traveller safety was the excuse, but in reality all the
were on an explicit fishing operation that included everything plus
"behavior detection officers".
Did people even know they could decline the search? That is unclear.
But at least one report indicates that they TSA weren't even aware of
local law! For those who do not know, Indiana allows licensed
individuals to carry firearms and accepts permits from other states
for individuals to carry firearms as well. We have the highest per
capita concealed carry population in the nation and the TSA was not
even aware of our laws.
My wife has a cousin who lives in Indy and he was one of the lucky
ones volunteered for a pat-down. He, like me, recognizes the value in
being prepared for one's own self defense. The screener asked if he
could be patted down for weapons to which he responded "I'll save you
the trouble, my licensed handgun is on my right hip." The screener
thought he was joking. Once she realized he was serious she announced
that there was a situation and called in the reinforcements.
He was told rudely "YOOOOUUU CAN'T CARRY A GUN AROUND HERE!" And he
replied "I bet I can, this isn't an airport..." By then a supervisor
walked over, took a quick look at his Kentucky CCW and asked the
Indianapolis PD next to him if it was any good. The Indy cop replied
that a CCW from any state or country is valid in Indiana. So the
supervisor declared in a loud voice to let him proceed, treat anyone
with a CCW like a cop and pass them on. Needless to say though, he had
a very quiet bus ride with lots of passengers staring at him the whole
time.
Aside from being galled at the concept of this kind of thing, I think
it's pretty sad that the federal security professionals need to learn
the rules as they go. One would think that if you were supposed to set
up a checkpoint to screen for weapons, you'd do a preliminary check to
see what was against the law in Indiana, what was permitted, etc. Goes
to show how arbitrary the whole thing is.
(reference: Federal Agents Searching Civilians in Indy (No BS) ).
So what was this operation, why was it needed, and what does it mean
for us all?
First, it was a clear encroachment on our 4th Amendment rights. Even
if it was legal (because individuals could refuse it), the fact that
law enforcement is searching people without cause is an encroachment.
Second, it was an encroachment done by the Federal Government in the
guise of proposed safety. While Indianapolis has had crime problems,
the bus system has not been the hub of those problems. Nor have any
federal crimes been committed on Indianapolis busses.
Third, it was a Federal operation performed by those who are not even
aware of the law. Since they had no understanding of Indiana weapons
laws and were performing weapons searches, why should I have any
confidence in their understanding of, and care for Constitutional law
in regards to personal searches.
Fourth, it was a Federal invasion of civilians that used our federal
tax dollars to search bus passengers, who if criminal could have moved
on to the next bus stop or just declined the search. The very same
Air Marshals that are supposed to be protecting our plans are
searching people at bus stops. This operation could hardly have been
an effective expenditure of resources, especially as no reported
arrests or confiscations took place.
Fifth, the stops seem to be better explained as a test of what
encroachments Americans will accept, and the fact that only one
article has mentioned it, sparsely at that, makes their test a likely
success for federal agencies that seek to expand their powers.
So now it is up to us to decide, again, what is acceptable and what is
not.
Personally, I plan to contact my Congressman in the morning (as this
was a federal operation) and demand some basic investigations be
done. Specifically, I have the following questions:
Why my tax dollars were spent this way?
What SPECIFIC threat this was addressing?
What CLEAR 4th Ammendment considerations were taken in the planning
and made clear in the searches?
What effect this event was expected to have among the population,
etc.?
Why were federal agents unaware of Indiana law when they were there to
search for violations of that law?
Was any notification given to the public before the event (as is done
with road-blocks)?
In a time when there are concerns with not having enough air marshals
on commercial planes, why do we have them at bus stops rather than at
the airport?
Are there plans to continue this program or expand it to other cities?
Should we all expect federal agents to be searching citizens in our
streets with no cause?
I also plan to send a letter to the Indiana ACLU and to the mayor's
office.
To quote my congressman Baron Hill:
September 11th illustrated that, while the threat may have changed,
the US still faces dangerous enemies in the 21st century. Our enemies
are no longer monolithic nation-states, but, instead, fluid networks
of terrorists that operate covertly in dozens of nations. To
successfully combat this threat, it is crucial that we coordinate and
develop a coherent strategy to enhance our homeland security. We must
not, however, sacrifice the personal freedoms of American citizens to
achieve these goals. (Source: 2006 Congressional National Political
Awareness Test Nov 7, 2006)
Let's see if anyone responds.
To my fellow Kos readers, I ask "Where is the reporting on this?" I
have not seen anything in the HuffingtonPost, or drugeretort, etc.
Please help us all by looking into this.
It really is just the beginning.
UPDATE: I was wrong, thanks to hungrycoyote, the fact is this is a
part of an 18 month old program opposed by law enforcement groups:
The law enforcement association already was unhappy with an 18-month-
old TSA program that teams the agency's armed federal air marshals --
who have law-enforcement powers -- with unarmed screeners and
inspectors on special units deployed at airports, rail and bus
stations.
These squads, known as Visual Intermodal Protection and Response
units, or VIPR teams, gained a higher profile earlier this month when
they were sent to East and West Coast airports and other
transportation facilities to beef up security patrols in the wake of
terrorist incidents in England and Scotland.
"The teaming up of highly trained federal air marshals with civilian
TSA screeners in uniform in front of airports and train stations is a
recipe for disaster," Gordon wrote.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/3/03736/76330
------------------------
Meanwhile, real police officers are objecting to plans to dress the
TSA rent-a-cops in uniforms with badges.
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-11/118473476794000.xml&coll=1
First one of these assholes who tries to search this old
hillbilly . . . . .
Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 10:25:34 PM PDT
Welcome to another creeping slide towards the big brother state. On
August 2, 2007 over two dozen agents of the TSA setup two checkpoints
at bus stops in Indianapolis Indiana and searched passengers who
wanted to ride on city buses. Federal agents, including Air Marshals
were present and patted people down, looked in bags, and performed
"behavior" tests for the stated purpose of finding weapons and people
who were a threat to public safety.
Before you think I am joking, let me refer to both the Indianapolis
Star report TSA checks IndyGo bus passengers as well as posted first
person reports of what happened yesterday and why it effects us all.
UPDATE: Thanks to DailyKos readers, this has been found to be a part
of an 18 month old Federal Operation, read more below!
BlueDotRedField's diary :: ::
The first reports I heard of something going on yesterday seemed like
a bloggin hoax:
Anybody know what's going on? There are TSA stations with about 20
agents each set up in at least two spots in downtown Indy, 1 is near
Capitol and Market, the other is near the federal building. They're
stopping and searching people getting on and off city busses and
travelling on the street. This is going a little too far. Where
exactly did this authority come from?
(reference: Feds searching people in Indy )
I thought this had to be a hoax since the TSA surely had better things
to do than hassle people riding buses in a major US city. But over
the day more and more reports came in confirming that not only were
searches being made, but that they were being made by federal agents
(including Air Marshals) and that many agencies were involved.
Then came a report from the Indianapolis Star, which said:
Screeners from the Transportation Security Administration checked
passengers at two Downtown city bus stops this morning, looking for
weapons and suspicious behavior.
David Kane, federal security director for TSA in Indianapolis, called
it a "VIPR" operation.
"It's called Visual Intermodal Prevention Response. We have
plainclothes inspectors, blue-gloved uniformed security officers who
are checking baggage, the behavior detection officers, and federal air
marshals, which are the law enforcement arm of TSA."
Security stations were set up at bus stops at Capitol Avenue and
Market Street, and Ohio and Meridian streets.
Some passengers were patted down or submitted to having bags checked.
TSA said the searches were "by-permission," meaning patrons could
decline to be checked. Those who did would not be turned away, an
official said, unless they otherwise appeared to be a security
threat.
(reference: TSA checks IndyGo bus passengers )
So to be clear, 20 or more agents of the federal government came to
Indianapolis, downtown, and setup two search stops for those wanting
to ride the bus. People could decline, legally, but only if the knew
they could. Traveller safety was the excuse, but in reality all the
were on an explicit fishing operation that included everything plus
"behavior detection officers".
Did people even know they could decline the search? That is unclear.
But at least one report indicates that they TSA weren't even aware of
local law! For those who do not know, Indiana allows licensed
individuals to carry firearms and accepts permits from other states
for individuals to carry firearms as well. We have the highest per
capita concealed carry population in the nation and the TSA was not
even aware of our laws.
My wife has a cousin who lives in Indy and he was one of the lucky
ones volunteered for a pat-down. He, like me, recognizes the value in
being prepared for one's own self defense. The screener asked if he
could be patted down for weapons to which he responded "I'll save you
the trouble, my licensed handgun is on my right hip." The screener
thought he was joking. Once she realized he was serious she announced
that there was a situation and called in the reinforcements.
He was told rudely "YOOOOUUU CAN'T CARRY A GUN AROUND HERE!" And he
replied "I bet I can, this isn't an airport..." By then a supervisor
walked over, took a quick look at his Kentucky CCW and asked the
Indianapolis PD next to him if it was any good. The Indy cop replied
that a CCW from any state or country is valid in Indiana. So the
supervisor declared in a loud voice to let him proceed, treat anyone
with a CCW like a cop and pass them on. Needless to say though, he had
a very quiet bus ride with lots of passengers staring at him the whole
time.
Aside from being galled at the concept of this kind of thing, I think
it's pretty sad that the federal security professionals need to learn
the rules as they go. One would think that if you were supposed to set
up a checkpoint to screen for weapons, you'd do a preliminary check to
see what was against the law in Indiana, what was permitted, etc. Goes
to show how arbitrary the whole thing is.
(reference: Federal Agents Searching Civilians in Indy (No BS) ).
So what was this operation, why was it needed, and what does it mean
for us all?
First, it was a clear encroachment on our 4th Amendment rights. Even
if it was legal (because individuals could refuse it), the fact that
law enforcement is searching people without cause is an encroachment.
Second, it was an encroachment done by the Federal Government in the
guise of proposed safety. While Indianapolis has had crime problems,
the bus system has not been the hub of those problems. Nor have any
federal crimes been committed on Indianapolis busses.
Third, it was a Federal operation performed by those who are not even
aware of the law. Since they had no understanding of Indiana weapons
laws and were performing weapons searches, why should I have any
confidence in their understanding of, and care for Constitutional law
in regards to personal searches.
Fourth, it was a Federal invasion of civilians that used our federal
tax dollars to search bus passengers, who if criminal could have moved
on to the next bus stop or just declined the search. The very same
Air Marshals that are supposed to be protecting our plans are
searching people at bus stops. This operation could hardly have been
an effective expenditure of resources, especially as no reported
arrests or confiscations took place.
Fifth, the stops seem to be better explained as a test of what
encroachments Americans will accept, and the fact that only one
article has mentioned it, sparsely at that, makes their test a likely
success for federal agencies that seek to expand their powers.
So now it is up to us to decide, again, what is acceptable and what is
not.
Personally, I plan to contact my Congressman in the morning (as this
was a federal operation) and demand some basic investigations be
done. Specifically, I have the following questions:
Why my tax dollars were spent this way?
What SPECIFIC threat this was addressing?
What CLEAR 4th Ammendment considerations were taken in the planning
and made clear in the searches?
What effect this event was expected to have among the population,
etc.?
Why were federal agents unaware of Indiana law when they were there to
search for violations of that law?
Was any notification given to the public before the event (as is done
with road-blocks)?
In a time when there are concerns with not having enough air marshals
on commercial planes, why do we have them at bus stops rather than at
the airport?
Are there plans to continue this program or expand it to other cities?
Should we all expect federal agents to be searching citizens in our
streets with no cause?
I also plan to send a letter to the Indiana ACLU and to the mayor's
office.
To quote my congressman Baron Hill:
September 11th illustrated that, while the threat may have changed,
the US still faces dangerous enemies in the 21st century. Our enemies
are no longer monolithic nation-states, but, instead, fluid networks
of terrorists that operate covertly in dozens of nations. To
successfully combat this threat, it is crucial that we coordinate and
develop a coherent strategy to enhance our homeland security. We must
not, however, sacrifice the personal freedoms of American citizens to
achieve these goals. (Source: 2006 Congressional National Political
Awareness Test Nov 7, 2006)
Let's see if anyone responds.
To my fellow Kos readers, I ask "Where is the reporting on this?" I
have not seen anything in the HuffingtonPost, or drugeretort, etc.
Please help us all by looking into this.
It really is just the beginning.
UPDATE: I was wrong, thanks to hungrycoyote, the fact is this is a
part of an 18 month old program opposed by law enforcement groups:
The law enforcement association already was unhappy with an 18-month-
old TSA program that teams the agency's armed federal air marshals --
who have law-enforcement powers -- with unarmed screeners and
inspectors on special units deployed at airports, rail and bus
stations.
These squads, known as Visual Intermodal Protection and Response
units, or VIPR teams, gained a higher profile earlier this month when
they were sent to East and West Coast airports and other
transportation facilities to beef up security patrols in the wake of
terrorist incidents in England and Scotland.
"The teaming up of highly trained federal air marshals with civilian
TSA screeners in uniform in front of airports and train stations is a
recipe for disaster," Gordon wrote.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/3/03736/76330
------------------------
Meanwhile, real police officers are objecting to plans to dress the
TSA rent-a-cops in uniforms with badges.
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-11/118473476794000.xml&coll=1
