First Post - Are Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists the same?

This is originally a research paper I wrote - but we should get a lively debate out of it.

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We must fight against those radical minorities who are trying to remove God from our textbooks, Christ from our nation. We must take back what is rightfully ours.

Rev. Jerry Falwell

Pastor, Thomas Road Baptist Church

Sermon, March 1993 Quotes from Some of Our Christian

ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM

Quote:

Allah revealed Islam in order that humanity could be governed according to it. Unbelief is darkness and disorder. So the unbelievers, if they are not suppressed, create disorder. That is why the Muslims are responsible for the implementation of Allah

The net result of these Saudi trained Wahabi clerics teaching in Saudi funded schools is an increasing number of Muslims who follow the doctrines of Wahabiism and are eager evangelists for this sect. The major terror organizations all adhere to a Wahabiist doctrine. Recruited from among university students and unemployed and underemployed professionals, unable to find work in their native countries and hostile to Western values thanks to their Wahabiist education, these fundamentalist Islamic recruits seek out places where they can

Active attempts were made, in the Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment periods, to disprove core Christian teachings. The theories of Charles Darwin called into question the origin of life on Earth, postulating a view contrary to the accepted Genesis account. Baruch Spinoza and David Hume argued against miracles based on Newton

Actually Bin Laden did not organize 9/11 because he hates anyone who isn't a Muslim. He did it because of America's support of Israel and becuase of our military bases in Saudi Arabia. He has said multiple times "Any nation that does not attack us will not be attacked." By the way, Mainstream Muslims do not support violence of any kind. If you actually learned about Islam instead of saying "stupid muslims" you would realize how similar it is to Christianity.

Regardless, religious fanaticism is dangerous, it does not matter what religion it is. Equally dangerous is labelling a religious group as terrorists. Hate and fear breed nothing but hate and fear, which leads to the escatation of violence and centuries of hate (ie. Israel and Palestine)

Actually Bin Laden did not organize 9/11 because he hates anyone who isn't a Muslim. He did it because of America's support of Israel and becuase of our military bases in Saudi Arabia. He has said multiple times "Any nation that does not attack us will not be attacked." By the way, Mainstream Muslims do not support violence of any kind. If you actually learned about Islam instead of saying "stupid muslims" you would realize how similar it is to Christianity.

 

Don't sell the "hatred" aspect of Bin Laden short.

 

The Wahabi doctrine Bin Laden subscribes to seeks to restore Islam to the days of the early "righteous" caliphs, which subjugated neighboring peoples but prevented them from converting. That is the key to understanding his "Any nation that does not attack us will not be attacked." statement. Define attack - to an anti-Western Wahabiist (not all are) that is defined as not coming under the subjugation of Islam. They would have no problem allowing both Israel and the US to exist, and Christians and Jews to worship, as long as Muslims of their theology are in the positions of power that by divine right they are entitled to, and worship is defined in Sharia terms for Christians and Jews.

 

Hatred then becomes a working tool to get his fellow Muslims to engage in behavior that will achieve that subjugation. Notice Bin Laden himself is in no hurry to die. That is due to the "double truth" that he, Bin Laden, is (in Averroesian terms) "the philosopher-caliph"- with knowledge of higher truth, (such as his right to rule and command his fellow, equal-before-the-eyes-of-Allah muslims to die to give him power,) and his followers are subject to religious truth (72 virgins, obligation to defend Islam and to die in Jihad if necessary, etc.) Bin Laden gets to live and rule; his followers get to die and receive eternal sensual rewards. And there is no contradiction and he didn't lie to them to achieve that end.

 

The simularities to Christianity are superficial, but worth noting. And for the record, while I believe Islam to be a false religion (Khadijah was wrong, it was a "jinn" - probably the same one that appeared to Joseph Smith), I do very much agree that most Muslims - Shia or Sunni - oppose violence. But because under certain conditions violence is theologically allowed, the tradition of the devout to criticise corrupt government throughout Muslim history, and the inablility of Muslim Imams to concieve of "false Muslims" or to criticise bad Muslims, to the non-Muslim world it looks like the whole lot of ya are up to no good.

Regardless, religious fanaticism is dangerous, it does not matter what religion it is. Equally dangerous is labelling a religious group as terrorists. Hate and fear breed nothing but hate and fear, which leads to the escatation of violence and centuries of hate (ie. Israel and Palestine)

 

I agree with you, with some provisos.

 

I would say "fanaticism, religious or otherwise, can be dangerous." Right now I would call the American Mainstream Media political fanatics in how they portray Christian Evangelicals as dangerous and wanting to Take Over the country. Try and talk to them, get them to at least understand the viewpoint you are coming from and its like talking to a brick wall. In many ways Moderate Muslims are in the same boat, except for their unwillingness to criticise their own, a vice Evangelicals don't possess.

I agree with the provisions. I will not get into a theological debate however because my religion is philosophy. I bow to no God, and seek only to live my life following eight noble truths. Thus, I remain true to myself, conscious and aware of the world around me. I do not condemn, nor condone any other religion, I respect your right to choose.

And I vehemently agree that mainstream media is fanatical with their coverage. They have a tendancy to be selective, and exascerbate issues such as religious intolerance, military activity, and racism.

I believe as long as your religion isnt hurting people or supressing,etc. Then its fine if you want to express it. Now when you get all these muslims who try to compare themselves to christians its just plain wrong. DO our churches give to terrorist GRoups? NO. If you watch the news, you will have seen a pro. basketball player who donated to a mosque and they gave it all to terrorists. Now which one is worse. Also Jesus didnt go around killing people like mohammad. Even when roman soldiers were killed he cried for them at the loss of life. ON the other hand, mohammad killed, robed and lied. He married a little girl then had sex with her when she was nine. Jesus, didint have sex. So if you try to compare the two consider this, who straps bombs to them selves and who lives rather peaceful? Eat shit you fucking evil bastards(a.k.a. Muslims)

Holy shit for the one billionth time: ALL RELIGION IS BULLSHIT! Damn I could make a motto out of that. You kids are so fucking stupid, all religion is oppressive. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT IN RELIGION! To gain control over people by making them think that you hold something greater then they do and turning them over to your religion. LOOK AT HISTORY, IT'S ALL THERE!

I'm not trying to say that I'm smarter then anybody, I don't know how you can infer that. All that I'm trying to say is obvious facts, and obviously religion's entire point is to be oppresive.

The organization is built on a hox though, kind of like in "The Village".

now if your saying that religion, as in orginized is bullshit, then I cna agree for the most part with you there....

QUOTE]

 

Holy shit for the one billionth time: ALL RELIGION IS BULLSHIT! Damn I could make a motto out of that. You kids are so fucking stupid, all religion is oppressive. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT IN RELIGION! To gain control over people by making them think that you hold something greater then they do and turning them over to your religion. LOOK AT HISTORY, IT'S ALL THERE!

 

 

Just like every institution man has ever been involved with, you get people who meshugina and fuck it up. Christ even predicted that it would occur - the whole "wolves in sheep's clothing" quote.

 

But that does not in any way cast shadows on the whole organization.

 

Religion is NOT used to control people; even false religions like Islam and Hinduism are not formed to control, but to explain why something happened and to try and put those events within a framework for daily living. That the original intent is perverted by human frailty is why not all religions are true. But even the Truth can be used as a weapon by those who have their own interests at heart. It just doesn't stay that way.

 

THAT is why both Judaism and Christianity have survived and adapted to the new realities of the world. Notice that only these two religions contemplate differences in adherants; Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and ALL other religions do ask for conformity to their way. That is not a sign of trying to control people, but to keep from thinking about the changes in the world, by stopping them from happening.

The answer to this question is very much self-evident...

 

Where are all the "Christian" suicide bombers?

Where are all the beheadings by well-funded "Christian" extreamists?

Where are all the "Christian" Red Neck Killers and Chetah Islams?

Where are all the "Christian" Holy Warriors, Mujahadeen, Jihad?

Where are all the "Christian" Al-Queda's and Hamas'?

Where are all the "Christian" purpotrated 9/11's?

Where are all the "Christian" hot spots in the world today?

The answer to this question is very much self-evident...

 

Where are all the "Christian" suicide bombers?

Where are all the beheadings by well-funded "Christian" extreamists?

Where are all the "Christian" Red Neck Killers and Chetah Islams?

Where are all the "Christian" Holy Warriors, Mujahadeen, Jihad?

Where are all the "Christian" Al-Queda's and Hamas'?

Where are all the "Christian" purpotrated 9/11's?

Where are all the "Christian" hot spots in the world today?

 

You asshole,murderers are murders.I don't give a damn what religion they are from.

They certainly aren't following the religion in the correct way.

MRIH,you'll never change.Does your religion teach you to be this way?I don't think so,coz unlike you I don't blame a religion coz of a person's character.And yours stinks!!!Some christian you are.....

Well MRIH, the Christians have slowed their role in the past century, but were responsible for not one but TWO crusades that killed coutless people, the Salem witch trials that killed an unknown amount of innocent American women, the destruction and near extiction of not one but TWO mesoamerican societies (Inca and Aztec), the Spanish Inquisition (Iron Maiden anyone?)and probably more, but I can't think of them. The Muslims have their share of bullshit too like 9/11, but you don't see them systematically exterminating entire societies.

To answer the main question, yes they are the same. While they may have slightly different agendas, they both think that they are the "one and only" and that everyone who disagrees with them is a heretic and should be put to death, or in some way be sedated.

they both think that they are the "one and only" and that everyone who disagrees with them is a heretic and should be put to death' date=' or in some way be sedated.[/quote']

 

I agree with most of your post,but I don't think christians and muslims want to put people to death.Well atleast not all of them.Hey aren't you the deist or something(forgive me if I spelt it wrong).Where have you been?

AIG, I was being overly dramatic with the wording to make a point. Yes it's been a while, hasn't it. The deist doctor has returned.

AIG' date=' I was being overly dramatic with the wording to make a point. Yes it's been a while, hasn't it. The deist doctor has returned.[/quote']

 

Welcome back.

I think both Christian and Muslim extremists are terrible people. Muslim extremists are much worse; but that does not justify the hatred of fanatical Christians.

I think both Christian and Muslim extremists are terrible people. Muslim extremists are much worse; but that does not justify the hatred of fanatical Christians.

And I think you're an IDIOT.

Well MRIH, the Christians have slowed their role in the past century, but were responsible for not one but TWO crusades that killed coutless people, the Salem witch trials that killed an unknown amount of innocent American women, the destruction and near extiction of not one but TWO mesoamerican societies (Inca and Aztec), the Spanish Inquisition (Iron Maiden anyone?)and probably more, but I can't think of them. The Muslims have their share of bullshit too like 9/11, but you don't see them systematically exterminating entire societies.

To answer the main question, yes they are the same. While they may have slightly different agendas, they both think that they are the "one and only" and that everyone who disagrees with them is a heretic and should be put to death, or in some way be sedated.

 

This is what I have devoted my life to change; the misconceptions about Christian history.

 

Crusades

 

Christianity was NOT responsible for two Crusades. Corrupt caliphates abused Christian pilgrims to the Holy Lands was the catalyst, but Muslim invasions - which reached as far as Vienna Austria - twice!! - and the expulsion of Islam from Andolusia (Spain) was the reason for the Crusades. It was a war of survival to check Muslim expansion plans in Europe.

 

The Salem witch trials

 

- try reading this http://www.cog.org/witch_hunt.html

by a Wiccan with a M.A. in medieval history.

 

In short the Salem trials were the result of a teenage girl trying to get attention for herself, and Cotton Mather, far from a villain, was the hero for trying to convince the court to accept only certain types of evidence and reject hearsay and rumors.

 

the destruction of mesoamerican societies (Inca and Aztec)

 

In 1532 Spanish soldier and adventurer Francisco Pizzaro landed in Peru with a force of about 180 men. Conditions were favorable to conquest, for the empire was debilitated by a just-concluded civil war between the heirs to the Inca throne, Atahualpa and Huascar, each of whom was seeking to control the empire. This internal dissension, plus the terror inspired by Spanish guns and horses

Extremist of any kind in any walk of life are dangerous. EVERYTHING in moderation