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in 1973 in New Orleans, myself and John Bowman and Ruben Scott was
arrested in New Orleans by the police department. We were taken from
the place where they are arrested us and took us to the jail. And
immediately, when we got in the jail, they started beating us. They
never asked us any questions in the beginning. They just started
beating us.
They had already had Ruben--they had arrested Ruben earlier that day,
before they arrested me and John Bowman. And they put me a room with
Ruben Scott when they first got me there, and he had been there a
couple hours. Well, he was laying on the floor in a fetus position,
where--and he had urine on him, feces, and his face was scratched up,
and he was swollen, and he was trembling.
And I asked him, I said, "Ruben, what's going on?" He says nothing. He
doesn't say anything. He's just shaking. And then, immediately, the
door opens up, and the police pulled me out, and they tell me, said,
"If you don't cooperate, this is what you're going to get." They made
me take off my clothes, chained me to a chair by my ankles to the
bottom of the chair and my wrists to the sides of it, and I just had
on my shorts. And at that point, they started beating me.
= = =
Former Black Panther Details Brutal Police Torture to Extract
Confession in 1971 Murder Case
Two Nobel Peace Prize laureates are calling for all charges to be
dropped against eight former Black Panthers arrested earlier this year
for allegedly killing a San Francisco police officer over 35 years
ago. Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Mairead Maguire said the charges
against the San Francisco Eight should be dropped, because the case is
based in part on statements made under torture. Harold Taylor, one of
the co-defendants, gives a detailed and powerful account of the abuse
he endured while in police custody. We also speak with Ray Boudreaux,
another of the San Francisco Eight, as well as their attorney.
[includes rush transcript]
Guests:
Harold Taylor, former Black Panther who was arrested earlier this year
on charges related to the killing of a San Francisco police officer
over 35 years ago. Similar charges were dismissed in 1975 after a
judge concluded Taylor had been tortured by police in New Orleans.
Ray Boudreaux, member of the San Francisco Eight.
Soffiyah Elijah, Attorney for the San Francisco Eight. She is the
Deputy Director of the Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard Law
School.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Nobel Peace Prize laureates Archbishop Desmond Tutu and
Mairead Maguire are calling for all charges to be dropped against
eight former Black Panthers arrested earlier this year for allegedly
killing a San Francisco police officer over thirty-five years ago.
In a statement being released today, Archbishop Tutu and Maguire said
the charges against the San Francisco Eight should be dropped because
the case is based in part on statements made under torture. They also
criticized the FBI's COINTELPRO operations, which targeted the Black
Panther Party.
Ten months ago, police arrested and detained six former Black Panthers
or supporters: Richard Brown, Richard O'Neal, Ray Boudreaux, Henry
Jones, Francisco Torres and Harold Taylor. Two men already in jail--
Herman Bell and Jalil Muntaqim--were also charged. The men were charged
with the murder of Sergeant John Young in 1971 and conspiracy to
commit murder for a string of attacks on other officers.
AMY GOODMAN: Harold Taylor and two other men were first charged with
the murder of the police sergeant in 1975, but a judge tossed out the
charges. Taylor and his two co-defendants said they made false
confessions after police in New Orleans tortured them.
Harold Turner and Ray Boudreaux join us now in our firehouse studio.
Both were released on bail in September. We're also joined by Soffiyah
Elijah. She is an attorney for the San Francisco Eight and deputy
director of the Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard Law School.
We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Soffiyah, let's begin with you.
The latest in this case?
SOFFIYAH ELIJAH: Certainly, the most victorious piece of news is that
we were able to get the men released on bail in September. The bail
reduction was very significant, particularly in light of the charges.
Bell, on December 3rd, this coming Monday, there will be a hearing in
court to discuss several issues, including discovery issues, because
the government has still failed to turn over all of the relevant
discovery in the case. And another piece of news is that the appellate
court in California has decided to hear the issue of the admissibility
of the tortured confessions taken from Mr. Taylor back in 1973.
AMY GOODMAN: Tell us, Harold Taylor, what happened. What are you
saying happened in 1973?
HAROLD TAYLOR: Well, in 1973 in New Orleans, myself and John Bowman
and Ruben Scott was arrested in New Orleans by the police department.
We were taken from the place where they are arrested us and took us to
the jail. And immediately, when we got in the jail, they started
beating us. They never asked us any questions in the beginning. They
just started beating us.
They had already had Ruben--they had arrested Ruben earlier that day,
before they arrested me and John Bowman. And they put me a room with
Ruben Scott when they first got me there, and he had been there a
couple hours. Well, he was laying on the floor in a fetus position,
where--and he had urine on him, feces, and his face was scratched up,
and he was swollen, and he was trembling.
And I asked him, I said, "Ruben, what's going on?" He says nothing. He
doesn't say anything. He's just shaking. And then, immediately, the
door opens up, and the police pulled me out, and they tell me, said,
"If you don't cooperate, this is what you're going to get." They made
me take off my clothes, chained me to a chair by my ankles to the
bottom of the chair and my wrists to the sides of it, and I just had
on my shorts. And at that point, they started beating me.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Now, let me ask you, at this point, they hadn't told
you anything about why they had arrested you or what you were charged
with or anything?
HAROLD TAYLOR: They never said anything. They never even charged me
with anything.
So they were beating me and asking me questions. And when they started
asking me questions, they started telling me about what I was supposed
to have done, that if I didn't cooperate and tell them what happened,
they were going to continue to do it. So they put plastic bags over my
head and held me back while five or six police officers stood around
me, hitting me and kicking at me. They were like kicking each other
trying to get their licks in. They were hitting each other trying to
hit me. And all I could do was sit there and just try to brace myself
and anticipate blows coming. And then they'd take the bag and put it
back over my head, and they'd wait 'til I'd just about pass out, and
they'd snatch it off.
And at that point, one was standing--would stand behind me, and he
would take the palms of his hands, and he'd slap my ears, and my ears
would just be ringing. He did that a number of times, and fluid began
to run down the side of my face, and I couldn't hear anything. It was
just ringing.
And at that point, they dragged me to another room, and then they take
me out of the chair, and they had the chains on my ankles, and they
would drag me through like a gauntlet of police on both sides, and
they were like kicking me and calling me names. And they continued
that and put me in another room, and then I could hear John Bowman and
I could hear Ruben Scott, and they were hollering. They were doing
basically the same thing to them that they were doing to me. This went
on for--you lose conception of time, but it seems like it was forever.
And they continued this and continued this.
And then, they said that they wanted to talk to me. They gave me a
break. They wouldn't give me water or anything like that. They leave
me alone for maybe five to ten minutes, and then they come back, and
then they start asking me questions about the Black Panther Party,
about police murders in different parts of the country. I tell them I
don't understand what they're talking about. I didn't know. So they
resume back to asking me questions concerning, well, what was I doing
in New Orleans. And every time I got ready to try to explain why I was
in New Orleans, they would continue to beat me, and I couldn't get
anything out, say anything.
And then I--this happened all day that Saturday. This is--I think it was
a Saturday. Sometimes I want to say it's Friday, but I lost track of
time. And it happened so consistently that when I finally got a break,
it would seem like it was about 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, and
they'd change shifts, and the new shift of police officers would come
in, and they would start questioning me, and they would start beating
me. New York Police Department came that early--
AMY GOODMAN: To New Orleans?
HAROLD TAYLOR: To New Orleans, that early that morning was New York
police. And they were asking about Herman Bell, did I know where
Herman Bell was. I told them I didn't know where Herman Bell was, and
I didn't know anything about what they were talking about. So it's
murders in New York.
Well, after that, they told me that Ruben Scott has implicated me in
situations and that if I didn't cooperate, that I was going to get
more of the same. And I said I don't know anything Ruben was talking
about. But they continued to beat him.
Then San Francisco came, San Francisco Police Department, they came
in. And they took me in a room, and he says, "Mr. Taylor," he says,
"we want to talk to you about San Francisco." I told him I had no idea
what they were talking about. So they says, "You know what? This is
not California. This is a whole different show here." And I kept
trying to tell them I didn't know. I said, "Could I use the phone? You
know, can I call a lawyer or something?" They told me, he says,
"You're not gonna talk to a lawyer here." And then he said, "Look, if
you don't cooperate, I just have to open that door, and you know
what's on the other side of that door." I kept telling them I don't
know what they're talking about.
So the door flies open, four or five run in there, they start beating
me and kicking me. And they just take me out of the room and just drag
me down the hallway and take me and slam me back in a chair, chain me
back up to the chair and start all over again with the plastic bag,
the ear slapping, the slapjacks across the back of my shoulders, all
down my legs and on my shins, between my knees. It was so painful that
all you could do was try to scream, you know. And they says, "You're
going to talk, or we're going to continue. This will go on as long as
it takes for you to talk." And I kept telling them the same thing. So
later--they did that all day. It went in shifts.
And every time they took me back into the room with Erdelatz and McCoy--
those were the two detectives from San Francisco--Erdelatz would say,
like he's there to--no, McCoy would act like he's there to help me, and
Erdelatz would stand there and browbeat me and try to intimidate me,
and he was the one that would always threaten to open the door: "If
you don't talk, we open the door." And I remember a tape recorder
being there. You know, I don't know when they turned it on or when
they turned it off, but I remember one being there. And after that,
they took me back out, and they didn't come back that day, the rest of
that day. They just left me with the New Orleans Police Department.
And my understanding is that it was a softening up period, that they
was going to continue to beat me. No water, nothing to eat, in a
bright room in a holding cell, but the lights were real bright, and
you just got your underwear on. Then they'd come in there with a hot
blanket, real wet, real, real soaking wet, not so much as scalding,
like it would take your skin off, but it was hot enough to make it
uncomfortable, and they'd throw it over my head. And one would pull my
head back, and I'm trying to breathe, and I'm sucking in water from
the blanket. And, you know, you feel like you're going to drown, you
know?
And so, then after they did that for awhile, they'd come back, and they
--this is when I was introduced to the cattle prod. And that's when
they told me, he says, "You know what this is." You know, I said, "No,
I don't know what that is." Matter of fact, I could hardly talk from
screaming so much that my voice was hoarse. And they started probing
me with the cattle prod on the back of my ear, down the side of my
arm, underneath my arm, all real sensitive areas. And they says, "You
know, we can do this all night long. We have nothing to do, you know.
And this will continue until you talk to the people from San
Francisco."
So then, after they left, they left me in the room again, so I'm
sitting there. I can't move. I can't go to the toilet. I can't--you
know, I've urinated all over myself from the electric shocks. And the
door opens, and there's two New York Police Department--two New York
detectives. They start asking me questions about a shooting of police
officers in New York. And they said, "You know what?" He says, "If you
don't want to cooperate with us, we're just going to--we're not going
to come back and stop anything." You know, it went on for awhile, and
then they opened the door on me, and police came back in from New
Orleans, the police.
The New Orleans Police Department did the dirty work. All the
detectives from out of town just basically asked questions. And when
you didn't cooperate, they would open the door, and the New Orleans
Police Department would come in.
Well, that time, they took me from one room to a big assembly room,
like a big detective room with a number of different desks. And I
think it was maybe about 12:00. It was late at night, real late,
because it was quiet, and there was no secretaries or nothing in this
office. And one would hit me from behind my neck, and I would feel
myself going unconscious. And before I hit the floor, they would start
kicking and stomping me. I think I must have been unconscious two or
three times, because they would kick me to sleep and kick me back
awake. And when I wake up, I'm being kicked. But I remember laying in
a fetus position the whole time, just trying to get balled up tight
enough to keep my head in. But I had--I was chained up, so I couldn't
get my hands over my head. But I could ball up as tight as I could.
And they did that all day, all night, put me in a cell at night, and I
thought I was going to get some sleep. They never took the chains off
me then. I'm lying on a steel bed with chains on my ankles and chains
around my waist, and I laid there 'til maybe four hours, thinking I
was going to get some sleep. But every time you hear keys, you jump.
You know, you're waiting for it to happen again. And they come in. And
when they come, they don't walk up to the door; they open the door,
and then they just rush in and grab you. And, you know, you're so
scared. You know, they tell you over and over that they're going to
kill you. And that was Sunday, they did that.
And Sunday night, they told me, says, "You know, if you go to the
courtroom, you know, there's nothing gonna stop there. If you says
anything in the courtroom, we'll bring you back." They're not going to
let you go into the custody of a sheriff's department in St. Bernard
Parish, New Orleans Parish sheriff's department, because the whole
prison there was Old Parish Prison, which was built back in the 1800s
and, then he says, a lot of escapes and stuff, and they can make an
excuse to keep me there, so I better do what they say, or they're--
because I'm not going to be turned over to the sheriff's department.
So, me and John Bowman, they didn't take us to court with everybody
else. We heard them taking prisoners out for court for arraignment
that next morning, and I'm anticipating that they have to arraign me,
because they arrested me, and, you know, seventy-two hours is up. You
know, you've got to take me to court that Monday. And they just kept
us there.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to bring Ray Boudreaux into this.
HAROLD TAYLOR: I'm sorry.
AMY GOODMAN: No.
HAROLD TAYLOR: I'm sorry.
AMY GOODMAN: I think it was very powerful testimony that you just
offered. And unfortunately, we just have a few minutes. Ray, where
were you at this time?
RAY BOUDREAUX: I was in New Orleans with Harold and the rest of the
guys. But at some point, we observed that the police were trailing us
and watching us. And I told everybody--I was living in Atlanta at the
time. And I told everybody I'm leaving the next day. And so,
fortunately, I missed the arrests and all of the things that happened
in New Orleans. And I didn't find out about what happened to Harold
until later on, of course.
AMY GOODMAN: They didn't do--this did not--you did not experience any of
what happened to Harold?
RAY BOUDREAUX: Oh, no. Not in New Orleans, no.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And then, your--eventually a state court threw out your
arrest on these charges because of the torturing?
HAROLD TAYLOR: Right.
RAY BOUDREAUX: Right.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And now, thirty-five years later, you get a new federal
indictment on this case.
HAROLD TAYLOR: State indictment.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Oh, a new state indictment on this case. What was your
reaction when you learned that thirty-five years later they were
coming back on the same accusations?
HAROLD TAYLOR: Well, you know, it was really funny to me, because it
was a day of 9/11 that really shook me. I was working at Tyndall Air
Force Base. I had the clearance to work on flights, flight line side.
And after 9/11, I was sitting up, getting ready to go work. You know,
I just live five miles from the Air Force base, so I was sitting up,
having a cup of coffee. And I just happened to look up and see the
tower, one tower on fire. I said, "Wow! How are they going to get up
there and put that out?" You know, I didn't know an airplane had hit
it. And when I was sitting there watching it and listening, I see this
other airplane. And it comes into the tower. And I says, "Wow! It's
bad." I said it's the old and new now. Anybody who's ever said
anything, been a participant of any progressive group during the
COINTELPRO era, they're coming back at everybody.
I think John Bowen--he's deceased now--he called me, and he says, "What
do you think?" I said, I think the chickens have come home to roost."
And he says, "Well, you better get ready," he says, "because they're
going to come knocking on doors." I don't think it was a year later
that they started asking people questions. And they were asking me
questions like, "We just want you to look at pictures of white people
and identify these white people. We're not interested in you." And
then, all of a sudden, they throw this Ingleside thing on me. "What do
you know about Ingleside? Look at these other pictures." First, they
had a photo with just all white people on it. Then after I had said,
"Well, I don't know none of these people," they flipped the page, and
it's all black people. He says, "Do you know any of these people?" I
says, "Well, yeah. That's Ray Boudreaux. You know, I know him. That's
John Bowman. And this is me right here." You know, and that's where
that went.
AMY GOODMAN: We're going to have to leave it there. Tonight, you're
here in New York from Panama City--you're here from Los Angeles, you
from Boston, Soffiyah--at the Martin Luther King Labor Center on 43rd
Street between Eighth and Ninth in New York City. You'll be there at
7:00 for an evening where you'll be talking. And the court date is
December--
SOFFIYAH ELIJAH: Third.
AMY GOODMAN: Third. And we will follow that story in San Francisco. I
want to thank you to you all for being with us.
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/11/30/former_black_panther_details_brutal_police
= = = =
STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA
IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
= = = =
= = = =
Sorry, we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email
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arrested in New Orleans by the police department. We were taken from
the place where they are arrested us and took us to the jail. And
immediately, when we got in the jail, they started beating us. They
never asked us any questions in the beginning. They just started
beating us.
They had already had Ruben--they had arrested Ruben earlier that day,
before they arrested me and John Bowman. And they put me a room with
Ruben Scott when they first got me there, and he had been there a
couple hours. Well, he was laying on the floor in a fetus position,
where--and he had urine on him, feces, and his face was scratched up,
and he was swollen, and he was trembling.
And I asked him, I said, "Ruben, what's going on?" He says nothing. He
doesn't say anything. He's just shaking. And then, immediately, the
door opens up, and the police pulled me out, and they tell me, said,
"If you don't cooperate, this is what you're going to get." They made
me take off my clothes, chained me to a chair by my ankles to the
bottom of the chair and my wrists to the sides of it, and I just had
on my shorts. And at that point, they started beating me.
= = =
Former Black Panther Details Brutal Police Torture to Extract
Confession in 1971 Murder Case
Two Nobel Peace Prize laureates are calling for all charges to be
dropped against eight former Black Panthers arrested earlier this year
for allegedly killing a San Francisco police officer over 35 years
ago. Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Mairead Maguire said the charges
against the San Francisco Eight should be dropped, because the case is
based in part on statements made under torture. Harold Taylor, one of
the co-defendants, gives a detailed and powerful account of the abuse
he endured while in police custody. We also speak with Ray Boudreaux,
another of the San Francisco Eight, as well as their attorney.
[includes rush transcript]
Guests:
Harold Taylor, former Black Panther who was arrested earlier this year
on charges related to the killing of a San Francisco police officer
over 35 years ago. Similar charges were dismissed in 1975 after a
judge concluded Taylor had been tortured by police in New Orleans.
Ray Boudreaux, member of the San Francisco Eight.
Soffiyah Elijah, Attorney for the San Francisco Eight. She is the
Deputy Director of the Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard Law
School.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Nobel Peace Prize laureates Archbishop Desmond Tutu and
Mairead Maguire are calling for all charges to be dropped against
eight former Black Panthers arrested earlier this year for allegedly
killing a San Francisco police officer over thirty-five years ago.
In a statement being released today, Archbishop Tutu and Maguire said
the charges against the San Francisco Eight should be dropped because
the case is based in part on statements made under torture. They also
criticized the FBI's COINTELPRO operations, which targeted the Black
Panther Party.
Ten months ago, police arrested and detained six former Black Panthers
or supporters: Richard Brown, Richard O'Neal, Ray Boudreaux, Henry
Jones, Francisco Torres and Harold Taylor. Two men already in jail--
Herman Bell and Jalil Muntaqim--were also charged. The men were charged
with the murder of Sergeant John Young in 1971 and conspiracy to
commit murder for a string of attacks on other officers.
AMY GOODMAN: Harold Taylor and two other men were first charged with
the murder of the police sergeant in 1975, but a judge tossed out the
charges. Taylor and his two co-defendants said they made false
confessions after police in New Orleans tortured them.
Harold Turner and Ray Boudreaux join us now in our firehouse studio.
Both were released on bail in September. We're also joined by Soffiyah
Elijah. She is an attorney for the San Francisco Eight and deputy
director of the Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard Law School.
We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Soffiyah, let's begin with you.
The latest in this case?
SOFFIYAH ELIJAH: Certainly, the most victorious piece of news is that
we were able to get the men released on bail in September. The bail
reduction was very significant, particularly in light of the charges.
Bell, on December 3rd, this coming Monday, there will be a hearing in
court to discuss several issues, including discovery issues, because
the government has still failed to turn over all of the relevant
discovery in the case. And another piece of news is that the appellate
court in California has decided to hear the issue of the admissibility
of the tortured confessions taken from Mr. Taylor back in 1973.
AMY GOODMAN: Tell us, Harold Taylor, what happened. What are you
saying happened in 1973?
HAROLD TAYLOR: Well, in 1973 in New Orleans, myself and John Bowman
and Ruben Scott was arrested in New Orleans by the police department.
We were taken from the place where they are arrested us and took us to
the jail. And immediately, when we got in the jail, they started
beating us. They never asked us any questions in the beginning. They
just started beating us.
They had already had Ruben--they had arrested Ruben earlier that day,
before they arrested me and John Bowman. And they put me a room with
Ruben Scott when they first got me there, and he had been there a
couple hours. Well, he was laying on the floor in a fetus position,
where--and he had urine on him, feces, and his face was scratched up,
and he was swollen, and he was trembling.
And I asked him, I said, "Ruben, what's going on?" He says nothing. He
doesn't say anything. He's just shaking. And then, immediately, the
door opens up, and the police pulled me out, and they tell me, said,
"If you don't cooperate, this is what you're going to get." They made
me take off my clothes, chained me to a chair by my ankles to the
bottom of the chair and my wrists to the sides of it, and I just had
on my shorts. And at that point, they started beating me.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Now, let me ask you, at this point, they hadn't told
you anything about why they had arrested you or what you were charged
with or anything?
HAROLD TAYLOR: They never said anything. They never even charged me
with anything.
So they were beating me and asking me questions. And when they started
asking me questions, they started telling me about what I was supposed
to have done, that if I didn't cooperate and tell them what happened,
they were going to continue to do it. So they put plastic bags over my
head and held me back while five or six police officers stood around
me, hitting me and kicking at me. They were like kicking each other
trying to get their licks in. They were hitting each other trying to
hit me. And all I could do was sit there and just try to brace myself
and anticipate blows coming. And then they'd take the bag and put it
back over my head, and they'd wait 'til I'd just about pass out, and
they'd snatch it off.
And at that point, one was standing--would stand behind me, and he
would take the palms of his hands, and he'd slap my ears, and my ears
would just be ringing. He did that a number of times, and fluid began
to run down the side of my face, and I couldn't hear anything. It was
just ringing.
And at that point, they dragged me to another room, and then they take
me out of the chair, and they had the chains on my ankles, and they
would drag me through like a gauntlet of police on both sides, and
they were like kicking me and calling me names. And they continued
that and put me in another room, and then I could hear John Bowman and
I could hear Ruben Scott, and they were hollering. They were doing
basically the same thing to them that they were doing to me. This went
on for--you lose conception of time, but it seems like it was forever.
And they continued this and continued this.
And then, they said that they wanted to talk to me. They gave me a
break. They wouldn't give me water or anything like that. They leave
me alone for maybe five to ten minutes, and then they come back, and
then they start asking me questions about the Black Panther Party,
about police murders in different parts of the country. I tell them I
don't understand what they're talking about. I didn't know. So they
resume back to asking me questions concerning, well, what was I doing
in New Orleans. And every time I got ready to try to explain why I was
in New Orleans, they would continue to beat me, and I couldn't get
anything out, say anything.
And then I--this happened all day that Saturday. This is--I think it was
a Saturday. Sometimes I want to say it's Friday, but I lost track of
time. And it happened so consistently that when I finally got a break,
it would seem like it was about 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, and
they'd change shifts, and the new shift of police officers would come
in, and they would start questioning me, and they would start beating
me. New York Police Department came that early--
AMY GOODMAN: To New Orleans?
HAROLD TAYLOR: To New Orleans, that early that morning was New York
police. And they were asking about Herman Bell, did I know where
Herman Bell was. I told them I didn't know where Herman Bell was, and
I didn't know anything about what they were talking about. So it's
murders in New York.
Well, after that, they told me that Ruben Scott has implicated me in
situations and that if I didn't cooperate, that I was going to get
more of the same. And I said I don't know anything Ruben was talking
about. But they continued to beat him.
Then San Francisco came, San Francisco Police Department, they came
in. And they took me in a room, and he says, "Mr. Taylor," he says,
"we want to talk to you about San Francisco." I told him I had no idea
what they were talking about. So they says, "You know what? This is
not California. This is a whole different show here." And I kept
trying to tell them I didn't know. I said, "Could I use the phone? You
know, can I call a lawyer or something?" They told me, he says,
"You're not gonna talk to a lawyer here." And then he said, "Look, if
you don't cooperate, I just have to open that door, and you know
what's on the other side of that door." I kept telling them I don't
know what they're talking about.
So the door flies open, four or five run in there, they start beating
me and kicking me. And they just take me out of the room and just drag
me down the hallway and take me and slam me back in a chair, chain me
back up to the chair and start all over again with the plastic bag,
the ear slapping, the slapjacks across the back of my shoulders, all
down my legs and on my shins, between my knees. It was so painful that
all you could do was try to scream, you know. And they says, "You're
going to talk, or we're going to continue. This will go on as long as
it takes for you to talk." And I kept telling them the same thing. So
later--they did that all day. It went in shifts.
And every time they took me back into the room with Erdelatz and McCoy--
those were the two detectives from San Francisco--Erdelatz would say,
like he's there to--no, McCoy would act like he's there to help me, and
Erdelatz would stand there and browbeat me and try to intimidate me,
and he was the one that would always threaten to open the door: "If
you don't talk, we open the door." And I remember a tape recorder
being there. You know, I don't know when they turned it on or when
they turned it off, but I remember one being there. And after that,
they took me back out, and they didn't come back that day, the rest of
that day. They just left me with the New Orleans Police Department.
And my understanding is that it was a softening up period, that they
was going to continue to beat me. No water, nothing to eat, in a
bright room in a holding cell, but the lights were real bright, and
you just got your underwear on. Then they'd come in there with a hot
blanket, real wet, real, real soaking wet, not so much as scalding,
like it would take your skin off, but it was hot enough to make it
uncomfortable, and they'd throw it over my head. And one would pull my
head back, and I'm trying to breathe, and I'm sucking in water from
the blanket. And, you know, you feel like you're going to drown, you
know?
And so, then after they did that for awhile, they'd come back, and they
--this is when I was introduced to the cattle prod. And that's when
they told me, he says, "You know what this is." You know, I said, "No,
I don't know what that is." Matter of fact, I could hardly talk from
screaming so much that my voice was hoarse. And they started probing
me with the cattle prod on the back of my ear, down the side of my
arm, underneath my arm, all real sensitive areas. And they says, "You
know, we can do this all night long. We have nothing to do, you know.
And this will continue until you talk to the people from San
Francisco."
So then, after they left, they left me in the room again, so I'm
sitting there. I can't move. I can't go to the toilet. I can't--you
know, I've urinated all over myself from the electric shocks. And the
door opens, and there's two New York Police Department--two New York
detectives. They start asking me questions about a shooting of police
officers in New York. And they said, "You know what?" He says, "If you
don't want to cooperate with us, we're just going to--we're not going
to come back and stop anything." You know, it went on for awhile, and
then they opened the door on me, and police came back in from New
Orleans, the police.
The New Orleans Police Department did the dirty work. All the
detectives from out of town just basically asked questions. And when
you didn't cooperate, they would open the door, and the New Orleans
Police Department would come in.
Well, that time, they took me from one room to a big assembly room,
like a big detective room with a number of different desks. And I
think it was maybe about 12:00. It was late at night, real late,
because it was quiet, and there was no secretaries or nothing in this
office. And one would hit me from behind my neck, and I would feel
myself going unconscious. And before I hit the floor, they would start
kicking and stomping me. I think I must have been unconscious two or
three times, because they would kick me to sleep and kick me back
awake. And when I wake up, I'm being kicked. But I remember laying in
a fetus position the whole time, just trying to get balled up tight
enough to keep my head in. But I had--I was chained up, so I couldn't
get my hands over my head. But I could ball up as tight as I could.
And they did that all day, all night, put me in a cell at night, and I
thought I was going to get some sleep. They never took the chains off
me then. I'm lying on a steel bed with chains on my ankles and chains
around my waist, and I laid there 'til maybe four hours, thinking I
was going to get some sleep. But every time you hear keys, you jump.
You know, you're waiting for it to happen again. And they come in. And
when they come, they don't walk up to the door; they open the door,
and then they just rush in and grab you. And, you know, you're so
scared. You know, they tell you over and over that they're going to
kill you. And that was Sunday, they did that.
And Sunday night, they told me, says, "You know, if you go to the
courtroom, you know, there's nothing gonna stop there. If you says
anything in the courtroom, we'll bring you back." They're not going to
let you go into the custody of a sheriff's department in St. Bernard
Parish, New Orleans Parish sheriff's department, because the whole
prison there was Old Parish Prison, which was built back in the 1800s
and, then he says, a lot of escapes and stuff, and they can make an
excuse to keep me there, so I better do what they say, or they're--
because I'm not going to be turned over to the sheriff's department.
So, me and John Bowman, they didn't take us to court with everybody
else. We heard them taking prisoners out for court for arraignment
that next morning, and I'm anticipating that they have to arraign me,
because they arrested me, and, you know, seventy-two hours is up. You
know, you've got to take me to court that Monday. And they just kept
us there.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to bring Ray Boudreaux into this.
HAROLD TAYLOR: I'm sorry.
AMY GOODMAN: No.
HAROLD TAYLOR: I'm sorry.
AMY GOODMAN: I think it was very powerful testimony that you just
offered. And unfortunately, we just have a few minutes. Ray, where
were you at this time?
RAY BOUDREAUX: I was in New Orleans with Harold and the rest of the
guys. But at some point, we observed that the police were trailing us
and watching us. And I told everybody--I was living in Atlanta at the
time. And I told everybody I'm leaving the next day. And so,
fortunately, I missed the arrests and all of the things that happened
in New Orleans. And I didn't find out about what happened to Harold
until later on, of course.
AMY GOODMAN: They didn't do--this did not--you did not experience any of
what happened to Harold?
RAY BOUDREAUX: Oh, no. Not in New Orleans, no.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And then, your--eventually a state court threw out your
arrest on these charges because of the torturing?
HAROLD TAYLOR: Right.
RAY BOUDREAUX: Right.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And now, thirty-five years later, you get a new federal
indictment on this case.
HAROLD TAYLOR: State indictment.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Oh, a new state indictment on this case. What was your
reaction when you learned that thirty-five years later they were
coming back on the same accusations?
HAROLD TAYLOR: Well, you know, it was really funny to me, because it
was a day of 9/11 that really shook me. I was working at Tyndall Air
Force Base. I had the clearance to work on flights, flight line side.
And after 9/11, I was sitting up, getting ready to go work. You know,
I just live five miles from the Air Force base, so I was sitting up,
having a cup of coffee. And I just happened to look up and see the
tower, one tower on fire. I said, "Wow! How are they going to get up
there and put that out?" You know, I didn't know an airplane had hit
it. And when I was sitting there watching it and listening, I see this
other airplane. And it comes into the tower. And I says, "Wow! It's
bad." I said it's the old and new now. Anybody who's ever said
anything, been a participant of any progressive group during the
COINTELPRO era, they're coming back at everybody.
I think John Bowen--he's deceased now--he called me, and he says, "What
do you think?" I said, I think the chickens have come home to roost."
And he says, "Well, you better get ready," he says, "because they're
going to come knocking on doors." I don't think it was a year later
that they started asking people questions. And they were asking me
questions like, "We just want you to look at pictures of white people
and identify these white people. We're not interested in you." And
then, all of a sudden, they throw this Ingleside thing on me. "What do
you know about Ingleside? Look at these other pictures." First, they
had a photo with just all white people on it. Then after I had said,
"Well, I don't know none of these people," they flipped the page, and
it's all black people. He says, "Do you know any of these people?" I
says, "Well, yeah. That's Ray Boudreaux. You know, I know him. That's
John Bowman. And this is me right here." You know, and that's where
that went.
AMY GOODMAN: We're going to have to leave it there. Tonight, you're
here in New York from Panama City--you're here from Los Angeles, you
from Boston, Soffiyah--at the Martin Luther King Labor Center on 43rd
Street between Eighth and Ninth in New York City. You'll be there at
7:00 for an evening where you'll be talking. And the court date is
December--
SOFFIYAH ELIJAH: Third.
AMY GOODMAN: Third. And we will follow that story in San Francisco. I
want to thank you to you all for being with us.
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/11/30/former_black_panther_details_brutal_police
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STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA
IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
= = = =
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