J
Jim Alder
Guest
We had a scuffle here Tuesday about an article written by one Fred Cederholm.
The original article is here;
http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/021808Cederholm.shtml
There were lots of kneejerk reactions from the progun crowd who seemed not
to bother reading the article. Defending the writer seemed fruitless, so I
wrote to him instead. Here's his polite reply;
Greetings James,
Thanks for defending me. I never meant to promote myself as any Heston,
Nugent, or (Wild Bill) Hickock. I've now learned that "terms of art" are as
important in weaponry as they are in accounting, law, finance, and economics.
(I knew that I should have stuck to the subjects normally covered by my
columns.) Oh well...
Still... I am gratified by the depth and breadth of the dialogues and debates
triggered in the blogs by TH NK NG (GUNS) - even if the gun saavy look at me
as some brainless mouthy dork. I used the "misnomer" terminology I was
familiar with - and using such, did NOT get myself to what I wanted/needed in
my search engine research for the column - hence my erroneous observations. I
may be "dumb" but I am not "stupid," trust me. ( I guess I've watched too many
episodes of various "Law and Order"s and will blame my "terminological
inexactitudes" on them.)
Also.. thank you for your input. I've gotten a great deal of feedback from
this column as I expected. I've learned a great deal from all that input. You
make a number of valid points below (as have other respondents).
Given all the info (and corrections to my terminology) from the gun savvy, I
am much more optimistic that a workable solution can be reached - if only DC
listens and TH NKs. Most of the criticism came from basically the third
sentence in the 3rd paragraph. Had I qualifed that "over the counter
availability" concern with - if that indeed still the case - I bet that I
would have been home free with what you call the vitriolic gun fanciers. There
are really so many MAJOR misconceptions out there. Unless you know the correct
terminology, you will never find the info or the web sites you need.
I am perhaps more sensitive to the issue than most as I have been held at
gunpoint on three occasions and was actually fired upon in three other
instances (once by soldiers with automatic rifles in Guatemala, but THAT is a
whole other story).
My purpose in the column was to attempt to strike some "rational middle
ground" and to get people TH NK NG. The recent events will undoubtedly cause a
knee jerk reaction in Washington DC especially since this is an election year.
Heaven help US/us all.
As an accountant I look at things from "a substance over form perspective" and
had eroneously classified the FOID card as some universal "license". Other
reader's feedback clarified that misconception for me - BIG TIME! I did try to
make your point about the limited sub-population miscreants who are making
things bad for all the honest/ conscientious folks in my paragraph on
profiling. I was actually surprised by the almost universal positive
"acceptance" of the validity of profiling - which is something I clearly
hadn't expected. Sometimes I do cover too much in the constraints of a
templated 4,000 keystroke column maximum, but that is my own problem.
It always amazes me how people read (and differently interpret) what I've
written. I try to be open minded (being a conservative Scandinavian Lutheran
NON-BUSH Republican -THAT is kind of an oxymoron, I know). Still people can
read the same column and take it totally differently. In the case of TH NK NG
(GUNS), I've already been accused of being "an anti-gun liberal bleeding
heart" by one reader (ME a LIBERAL???? --- GASP!!!!) while another calls me an
"ass kissing suck up shill for the NRA." You've read the column... how can I
be both???????????? Go figure...
I have been in gun shops with friends on a couple of occasions in the past and
learned from each visit. I'd even attended a couple of skeet/target
competitions when I lived in Houston years back. Now that I'm back home in
Illinois, I don't notice those events as much - although a old local family
runs a membership hunting club and target site on a 1,000 acre wooded and
prairie location a little over a mile from where I live.
If you are familiar with my columns (which are archived at multiple locations
on the net), you will know that I am not a big fan of the current
administration, nor the highly invasive government that has evolved in the US.
This country is in trouble on so many fronts and it seems that many will come
home to roost in 2008.
Best wishes and best of luck in what should prove to be an "interesting" year.
Fred C asklet@rochelle.net
Feel free to post this Mea Culpa at any blog sites you choose (or not) Your
call.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Alder
To: asklet@rochelle.net
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:13 PM
Subject: To Fred Cederholm
Dear Mr. Cederholm:
First let me say I enjoyed your article "Thinking about guns". I say that
to separate myself from the herd of what was probably vitriolic gun fanciers.
Your article was repeated on a usenet newsgroup and except for mine, the
response was purely negative. I defended you as best I could, given that you
didn't really make demands or stomp around in self-righteous anger.
You did, however, make a few mistakes. Given you've never owned a gun,
mistakes are understandable. Bu tthey color your judgement.
First of all, automatic weapons are not sold "over the counter". It's a
fairly involved process with background checks and letters of recommendation
from law enforcement. A friend of mine has a Class 3 license (to sell full
auto weapons) and most of his customers are police or judges who collect them.
Who needs them? Does Jay Leno need hundreds of cars and motorcycles? In some
cases they are a piece of history, in others they're just fun to shoot.
As for 'assault weapons'? They're the same thing. Fully auto weapons used
by military and police in assaults. As I said, you can't buy them easily and
they are almost never used in crimes or shooting sprees.
Semi-automatics are common enough in hunting and target shooting. It
doesn't really matter much if it's got shiny furniture like a Browning, or
matte finish metal and plastic like an AR-15 or semi-auto AK-47. One of the
few times I went deer hunting I took an HK91, the kind of 'ugly' assault
weapon the press and antigunners go whacko over. It was lightweight, amazingly
accurate and even had a handle to carry it easily. You asked why people would
want guns like that. Now you have a few reasons.
Armor piercing ammo? Using that phrase is the quickest way to get laughed
at by the pro-gun crowd. If you meant the infamous and elusive "cop killer
bullet," in all my years of going to gun shows, collecting handguns and all,
I've never seen one. It's called a KTW cartridge invented by three cops, I
believe, and sold only to cops. If NBC hadn't exposed their existence to the
public, no one would ever know they existed.
Of course, all these facts don't really change anything. The problem
remains and as you say, the solution is not evident. Or at least, it's not a
comfortable solution. We can't cure mental illness, nor can we disarm the
country. We can't really even disarm the mentally ill. There are too many guns
in existence to guarantee that a determined person can't get his hands on one
or more. That's not going to change.
Not long ago in Omaha we learned the only logical solution. A woman with a
gun stopped the shooter. Gun phobic people seem to think this takes some
superhuman skill. It doesn't. They also seem to think that it's every gun
owner's fantasy to 'save the day' in such circumstances. That may be true of
some, but so what? It's not like anyone can predict where the next mass
shooting will be. I might carry a concealed weapon every day for the rest of
my life and never need it. Or, I might need it tomorrow.
I think the biggest obstacle to the solution is the stigma attached to
carrying a concealed weapon. Mention to many in this country that you have a
carry permit and expect to be treated like a paranoid loon. Until that
changes, the chances of someone being able to stop the next madman with a gun
are slim.
--
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm
to pass... it's about learning to dance
in the rain."
The original article is here;
http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/021808Cederholm.shtml
There were lots of kneejerk reactions from the progun crowd who seemed not
to bother reading the article. Defending the writer seemed fruitless, so I
wrote to him instead. Here's his polite reply;
Greetings James,
Thanks for defending me. I never meant to promote myself as any Heston,
Nugent, or (Wild Bill) Hickock. I've now learned that "terms of art" are as
important in weaponry as they are in accounting, law, finance, and economics.
(I knew that I should have stuck to the subjects normally covered by my
columns.) Oh well...
Still... I am gratified by the depth and breadth of the dialogues and debates
triggered in the blogs by TH NK NG (GUNS) - even if the gun saavy look at me
as some brainless mouthy dork. I used the "misnomer" terminology I was
familiar with - and using such, did NOT get myself to what I wanted/needed in
my search engine research for the column - hence my erroneous observations. I
may be "dumb" but I am not "stupid," trust me. ( I guess I've watched too many
episodes of various "Law and Order"s and will blame my "terminological
inexactitudes" on them.)
Also.. thank you for your input. I've gotten a great deal of feedback from
this column as I expected. I've learned a great deal from all that input. You
make a number of valid points below (as have other respondents).
Given all the info (and corrections to my terminology) from the gun savvy, I
am much more optimistic that a workable solution can be reached - if only DC
listens and TH NKs. Most of the criticism came from basically the third
sentence in the 3rd paragraph. Had I qualifed that "over the counter
availability" concern with - if that indeed still the case - I bet that I
would have been home free with what you call the vitriolic gun fanciers. There
are really so many MAJOR misconceptions out there. Unless you know the correct
terminology, you will never find the info or the web sites you need.
I am perhaps more sensitive to the issue than most as I have been held at
gunpoint on three occasions and was actually fired upon in three other
instances (once by soldiers with automatic rifles in Guatemala, but THAT is a
whole other story).
My purpose in the column was to attempt to strike some "rational middle
ground" and to get people TH NK NG. The recent events will undoubtedly cause a
knee jerk reaction in Washington DC especially since this is an election year.
Heaven help US/us all.
As an accountant I look at things from "a substance over form perspective" and
had eroneously classified the FOID card as some universal "license". Other
reader's feedback clarified that misconception for me - BIG TIME! I did try to
make your point about the limited sub-population miscreants who are making
things bad for all the honest/ conscientious folks in my paragraph on
profiling. I was actually surprised by the almost universal positive
"acceptance" of the validity of profiling - which is something I clearly
hadn't expected. Sometimes I do cover too much in the constraints of a
templated 4,000 keystroke column maximum, but that is my own problem.
It always amazes me how people read (and differently interpret) what I've
written. I try to be open minded (being a conservative Scandinavian Lutheran
NON-BUSH Republican -THAT is kind of an oxymoron, I know). Still people can
read the same column and take it totally differently. In the case of TH NK NG
(GUNS), I've already been accused of being "an anti-gun liberal bleeding
heart" by one reader (ME a LIBERAL???? --- GASP!!!!) while another calls me an
"ass kissing suck up shill for the NRA." You've read the column... how can I
be both???????????? Go figure...
I have been in gun shops with friends on a couple of occasions in the past and
learned from each visit. I'd even attended a couple of skeet/target
competitions when I lived in Houston years back. Now that I'm back home in
Illinois, I don't notice those events as much - although a old local family
runs a membership hunting club and target site on a 1,000 acre wooded and
prairie location a little over a mile from where I live.
If you are familiar with my columns (which are archived at multiple locations
on the net), you will know that I am not a big fan of the current
administration, nor the highly invasive government that has evolved in the US.
This country is in trouble on so many fronts and it seems that many will come
home to roost in 2008.
Best wishes and best of luck in what should prove to be an "interesting" year.
Fred C asklet@rochelle.net
Feel free to post this Mea Culpa at any blog sites you choose (or not) Your
call.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Alder
To: asklet@rochelle.net
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:13 PM
Subject: To Fred Cederholm
Dear Mr. Cederholm:
First let me say I enjoyed your article "Thinking about guns". I say that
to separate myself from the herd of what was probably vitriolic gun fanciers.
Your article was repeated on a usenet newsgroup and except for mine, the
response was purely negative. I defended you as best I could, given that you
didn't really make demands or stomp around in self-righteous anger.
You did, however, make a few mistakes. Given you've never owned a gun,
mistakes are understandable. Bu tthey color your judgement.
First of all, automatic weapons are not sold "over the counter". It's a
fairly involved process with background checks and letters of recommendation
from law enforcement. A friend of mine has a Class 3 license (to sell full
auto weapons) and most of his customers are police or judges who collect them.
Who needs them? Does Jay Leno need hundreds of cars and motorcycles? In some
cases they are a piece of history, in others they're just fun to shoot.
As for 'assault weapons'? They're the same thing. Fully auto weapons used
by military and police in assaults. As I said, you can't buy them easily and
they are almost never used in crimes or shooting sprees.
Semi-automatics are common enough in hunting and target shooting. It
doesn't really matter much if it's got shiny furniture like a Browning, or
matte finish metal and plastic like an AR-15 or semi-auto AK-47. One of the
few times I went deer hunting I took an HK91, the kind of 'ugly' assault
weapon the press and antigunners go whacko over. It was lightweight, amazingly
accurate and even had a handle to carry it easily. You asked why people would
want guns like that. Now you have a few reasons.
Armor piercing ammo? Using that phrase is the quickest way to get laughed
at by the pro-gun crowd. If you meant the infamous and elusive "cop killer
bullet," in all my years of going to gun shows, collecting handguns and all,
I've never seen one. It's called a KTW cartridge invented by three cops, I
believe, and sold only to cops. If NBC hadn't exposed their existence to the
public, no one would ever know they existed.
Of course, all these facts don't really change anything. The problem
remains and as you say, the solution is not evident. Or at least, it's not a
comfortable solution. We can't cure mental illness, nor can we disarm the
country. We can't really even disarm the mentally ill. There are too many guns
in existence to guarantee that a determined person can't get his hands on one
or more. That's not going to change.
Not long ago in Omaha we learned the only logical solution. A woman with a
gun stopped the shooter. Gun phobic people seem to think this takes some
superhuman skill. It doesn't. They also seem to think that it's every gun
owner's fantasy to 'save the day' in such circumstances. That may be true of
some, but so what? It's not like anyone can predict where the next mass
shooting will be. I might carry a concealed weapon every day for the rest of
my life and never need it. Or, I might need it tomorrow.
I think the biggest obstacle to the solution is the stigma attached to
carrying a concealed weapon. Mention to many in this country that you have a
carry permit and expect to be treated like a paranoid loon. Until that
changes, the chances of someone being able to stop the next madman with a gun
are slim.
--
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm
to pass... it's about learning to dance
in the rain."