Hotmail

[Jim]

Is it just me, or has there been a significant increase in the number of

fraudulent phishing type scams on the Hotmail service bulk email folder?

dUh...when are they going to do something about it?! I usually would submit

these to abuse@hotmail.com or whichever mail service I am using at the time.

At Hotmail the complaint gets the auto-response of no action taken. It is

almost as if by elimination they are looking for who we don't have an

account with...

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Jim wrote:<span style="color:blue">

> Is it just me, or has there been a significant increase in the

> number of fraudulent phishing type scams on the Hotmail service

> bulk email folder? dUh...when are they going to do something about

> it?! I usually would submit these to abuse@hotmail.com or whichever

> mail service I am using at the time. At Hotmail the complaint gets

> the auto-response of no action taken. It is almost as if by

> elimination they are looking for who we don't have an account

> with...</span>

Spam and phishing - no matter what anyone does will get worse and worse.

--

Shenan Stanley

MS-MVP

--

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

[Crossposted to Internet Mail newsgroup]

You could tweak your Junk Mail, etc., filters. See links here:

http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/blog/c...6708!5828.entry

--

~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002

AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net

DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Jim wrote:<span style="color:blue">

> Is it just me, or has there been a significant increase in the number of

> fraudulent phishing type scams on the Hotmail service bulk email folder?

> dUh...when are they going to do something about it?! I usually would

> submit

> these to abuse@hotmail.com or whichever mail service I am using at the

> time.

> At Hotmail the complaint gets the auto-response of no action taken. It is

> almost as if by elimination they are looking for who we don't have an

> account with... </span>

 

[S. Pidgorny]

The OP reported that the ncreased activity is observed in the Bulk Email

folder. That means the filters are doing decent job - otherwise spam would

end up in the inbox.

--

Svyatoslav Pidgorny, MS MVP - Security, MCSE

-= F1 is the key =-

http://sl.mvps.org http://msmvps.com/blogs/sp

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:eOICTlUuIHA.1772@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...<span style="color:blue">

> [Crossposted to Internet Mail newsgroup]

>

> You could tweak your Junk Mail, etc., filters. See links here:

> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/blog/c...6708!5828.entry

> --

> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002

> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net

> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

>

> Jim wrote:<span style="color:green">

>> Is it just me, or has there been a significant increase in the number of

>> fraudulent phishing type scams on the Hotmail service bulk email folder?

>> dUh...when are they going to do something about it?! I usually would

>> submit

>> these to abuse@hotmail.com or whichever mail service I am using at the

>> time.

>> At Hotmail the complaint gets the auto-response of no action taken. It is

>> almost as if by elimination they are looking for who we don't have an

>> account with...</span>

> </span>

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

True, but OP could create filters such that none of these messages would end

up in Bulk/Junk Mail folder to begin with.

S. Pidgorny <MVP> wrote:<span style="color:blue">

> The OP reported that the ncreased activity is observed in the Bulk Email

> folder. That means the filters are doing decent job - otherwise spam would

> end up in the inbox.

><span style="color:green">

>> [Crossposted to Internet Mail newsgroup]

>>

>> You could tweak your Junk Mail, etc., filters. See links here:

>> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/blog/c...6708!5828.entry

>> --

>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002

>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net

>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

>>

>> Jim wrote:<span style="color:darkred">

>>> Is it just me, or has there been a significant increase in the number of

>>> fraudulent phishing type scams on the Hotmail service bulk email folder?

>>> dUh...when are they going to do something about it?! I usually would

>>> submit

>>> these to abuse@hotmail.com or whichever mail service I am using at the

>>> time.

>>> At Hotmail the complaint gets the auto-response of no action taken. It

>>> is

>>> almost as if by elimination they are looking for who we don't have an

>>> account with... </span></span></span>

 

[Jim]

Thanks to all of you for your responses.

I have been running on "custom" high security settings lately [uS-CERT] and

this makes

visiting windows live/hotmail difficult, but not impossible; too place in

Trusted zone. I do use MSOEv.6 and sometimes TB.

_The HTTP server does not allow message rules from these applications.

Although a Trusted Z [what is the best wildcard?] is not difficult to

perform for browser access purposes, I do

not see in the filter list a way to exclude numerous financial groups from

the junk/bulk folder. If I run with privacy settings at medium-high, this is

pretty good and functional. Currently I have "custom" privacy settings too,

e.g. session/prompt. I also use AS online scan/filtering of tracking cookies

and spy/adware. I cleanboot the system every week with maintenance.

I do not read any real descriptive information in those emails, only the

classic phish/ fraud come-on. It would be nice if Hotmail would filter these

out of even the junk mail folder. I like to keep Hotmail open to the outside

world.

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:eOICTlUuIHA.1772@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...<span style="color:blue">

> [Crossposted to Internet Mail newsgroup]

>

> You could tweak your Junk Mail, etc., filters. See links here:

> http://emailsupport.spaces.live.com/blog/c...6708!5828.entry

> --

> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)

> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002

> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net

> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

>

> Jim wrote:<span style="color:green">

> > Is it just me, or has there been a significant increase in the number of

> > fraudulent phishing type scams on the Hotmail service bulk email folder?

> > dUh...when are they going to do something about it?! I usually would

> > submit

> > these to abuse@hotmail.com or whichever mail service I am using at the

> > time.

> > At Hotmail the complaint gets the auto-response of no action taken. It</span></span>

is<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > almost as if by elimination they are looking for who we don't have an

> > account with...</span>

></span>

 

[N. Miller]

On Mon, 19 May 2008 13:56:42 -0400, Jim wrote:

<span style="color:blue">

> I do not read any real descriptive information in those emails, only the

> classic phish/ fraud come-on. It would be nice if Hotmail would filter these

> out of even the junk mail folder.</span>

Eh? The whole purpose of the Junk folder is to hold suspicious email for

evaluation against possible false positives.

<span style="color:blue">

> I like to keep Hotmail open to the outside world.</span>

You want to have your cake, and eat it, too. Can't be done. If anybody had

discovered a 100% reliable method of blocking spam (as contrasted with just

filtering it), they'd be rich, and the spammers out of business.

--

Norman

~Oh Lord, why have you come

~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

 

[Jim]

I said an increase in the incidents of phish/fraud in the junk/bulk folder.

Things to be reported to Abuse@hotmail.com and/or www.Abuse.net

"N. Miller" <anonymous@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message

news:ke760n3qldrd$.dlg@msnews.aosake.net...<span style="color:blue">

> On Mon, 19 May 2008 13:56:42 -0400, Jim wrote:

><span style="color:green">

> > I do not read any real descriptive information in those emails, only the

> > classic phish/ fraud come-on. It would be nice if Hotmail would filter</span></span>

these<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > out of even the junk mail folder.</span></span>

...dUh... and Eh? seem similar enough. Why burden the end user with known

stuff?

<span style="color:blue">

> Eh? The whole purpose of the Junk folder is to hold suspicious email for

> evaluation against possible false positives.

><span style="color:green">

> > I like to keep Hotmail open to the outside world.</span>

>

> You want to have your cake, and eat it, too. _ If anybody had

> discovered a 100% reliable method of blocking spam (as contrasted with</span>

just<span style="color:blue">

> filtering it), they'd be rich, and the spammers out of business.</span>

That's why I bake a cake, to eat it.<span style="color:blue">

> --

> No man.

> ~Oh Lord, why have you come

> John 8:32</span>

The Bayesian technique is helpful in convergence filtering. A database with

one to one correspondence of the results. IP identifiers that traceroute.

All that server side. Contact local authorities. Certainly most are outside

US like (Largos Nigeria the new Chicago)... but a little sweetening of the

pie [our State Dept.] in order to curb the activity usually works there.

Despite what some might think about Largos, many of these people are smart

and creative in this crime. The US does quite a lot of biz there.$. Lastly,

this is crime and not just in this country. It has persisted for some time

now and needs to be kicked up a notch.

 

[S. Pidgorny]

G'day:

"N. Miller" <anonymous@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message

<span style="color:blue">

> You want to have your cake, and eat it, too. Can't be done. If anybody had

> discovered a 100% reliable method of blocking spam (as contrasted with

> just

> filtering it), they'd be rich, and the spammers out of business.</span>

Not really. I know a way: only accept messages that are digitally signed by

explicitely trusted correspondents.

--

Svyatoslav Pidgorny, MS MVP - Security, MCSE

-= F1 is the key =-

http://sl.mvps.org http://msmvps.com/blogs/sp

 

[Jim]

I would do that with a personal CA, unfortunately the Digital ID connect

button in msoev.6 ~ is not connecting to anywhere. I went back to Thawte and

they wanted me to tweak the browser into an unsafe mode allowing many active

x and scripting etc. I happen to have an older os, win98se and I like it,

but I have not found a CA since the early 2k days. Currently I rely on the

trusted root and intermediate CA providers in the cert store on board. As

gas prices go up and up I think I will need to get one to save on certain

long biz trips to the Farm Service Agency just to sign contracts. You would

think that the U.S. Government would be up to snuff on these things by

now...ha!

"S. Pidgorny <MVP>" <slavickp@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:%23ZRIYZxuIHA.516@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...<span style="color:blue">

> G'day:

>

>

> "N. Miller" <anonymous@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message

><span style="color:green">

> > You want to have your cake, and eat it, too. Can't be done. If anybody</span></span>

had<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > discovered a 100% reliable method of blocking spam (as contrasted with

> > just

> > filtering it), they'd be rich, and the spammers out of business.</span>

>

> Not really. I know a way: only accept messages that are digitally signed</span>

by<span style="color:blue">

> explicitely trusted correspondents.

>

> --

> Svyatoslav Pidgorny, MS MVP - Security, MCSE

> -= F1 is the key =-

>

> http://sl.mvps.org http://msmvps.com/blogs/sp

>

></span>

 

[Jim]

I see how to change the trust status of a digital id, but I do not see how

you set the message rules. Also, Hotmail is not allowing the message rules

to work with the http sever. At least the last time I tried to block stuff

that is what happen.

"S. Pidgorny <MVP>" <slavickp@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:%23ZRIYZxuIHA.516@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...<span style="color:blue">

> G'day:

>

>

> "N. Miller" <anonymous@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message

><span style="color:green">

> > You want to have your cake, and eat it, too. Can't be done. If anybody</span></span>

had<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > discovered a 100% reliable method of blocking spam (as contrasted with

> > just

> > filtering it), they'd be rich, and the spammers out of business.</span>

>

> Not really. I know a way: only accept messages that are digitally signed</span>

by<span style="color:blue">

> explicitely trusted correspondents.

>

> --

> Svyatoslav Pidgorny, MS MVP - Security, MCSE

> -= F1 is the key =-

>

> http://sl.mvps.org http://msmvps.com/blogs/sp

>

></span>

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

[Right pew, wrong church: OE Message Rules are not applied WebDAV/HTTP mail,

only POP3 mail.]

Jim wrote:<span style="color:blue">

> ...Also, Hotmail is not allowing the message rules

> to work with the http sever... </span>

 

[N. Miller]

On Thu, 22 May 2008 16:45:23 -0400, Jim wrote:

<span style="color:blue">

> I see how to change the trust status of a digital id, but I do not see how

> you set the message rules. Also, Hotmail is not allowing the message rules

> to work with the http sever. At least the last time I tried to block stuff

> that is what happen.</span>

The only rules which apply to Hotmail are the ones set on the server. You

can create rules through the web access, but you can't set rules in MSOE

on HTTPMail, or IMAP account.

--

Norman

~Oh Lord, why have you come

~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

 

[Jim]

yes,

I meant msoe is not allowed to apply message rules on the http hotmail

server. It is working on my other pop3 accounts though and most private ssl

etc. biz goes on with those accounts. I save Hotmail for specifically

connecting with the outside world and the other for the inner world of

family biz and people I have a specific extended biz relationship with. I

can rig Hotmail this way, but have not lately.

I had a cert long ago, ~2k Thawte freemail personal, but have since found it

difficult connect to the approved MS websites and have relied on the trusted

root CA in the store onboard for ssl. I do not know why the link is not

working for me and I have seen some website at MS for this function. I could

also use the bank, which I believe have CA and notary ability. All of my

pop3 mail goes thru ssl so I don't need it...this I am not certain of, but I

am assuming there is no real need of a personal CA there.

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:Ox5%23XdQvIHA.2068@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...<span style="color:blue">

> [Right pew, wrong church: OE Message Rules are not applied WebDAV/HTTP</span>

mail,<span style="color:blue">

> only POP3 mail.]

>

> Jim wrote:<span style="color:green">

> > ...Also, Hotmail is not allowing the message rules

> > to work with the http sever...</span>

></span>

 

[Jim]

thanks,

"N. Miller" <anonymous@msnews.aosake.net> wrote in message

news:qai63u3eywi2.dlg@msnews.aosake.net...<span style="color:blue">

> On Thu, 22 May 2008 16:45:23 -0400, Jim wrote:

><span style="color:green">

> > I see how to change the trust status of a digital id, but I do not see</span></span>

how<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > you set the message rules. Also, Hotmail is not allowing the message</span></span>

rules<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > to work with the http sever. At least the last time I tried to block</span></span>

stuff<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > that is what happen.</span>

>

> The only rules which apply to Hotmail are the ones set on the server. You

> can create rules through the web access, but you can't set rules in MSOE

> on HTTPMail, or IMAP account.

>

> --

> Norman

> ~Oh Lord, why have you come

> ~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum</span>

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

> I meant msoe is not allowed to apply message rules on the http hotmail<span style="color:blue">

> server.</span>

It's really not a question of "being allowed," it's the fact that it OE

doesn't do it.

Jim wrote:<span style="color:blue">

> yes,

> I meant msoe is not allowed to apply message rules on the http hotmail

> server. It is working on my other pop3 accounts though and most private

> ssl

> etc. biz goes on with those accounts. I save Hotmail for specifically

> connecting with the outside world and the other for the inner world of

> family biz and people I have a specific extended biz relationship with. I

> can rig Hotmail this way, but have not lately.

>

> I had a cert long ago, ~2k Thawte freemail personal, but have since found

> it

> difficult connect to the approved MS websites and have relied on the

> trusted

> root CA in the store onboard for ssl. I do not know why the link is not

> working for me and I have seen some website at MS for this function. I

> could

> also use the bank, which I believe have CA and notary ability. All of my

> pop3 mail goes thru ssl so I don't need it...this I am not certain of, but

> I

> am assuming there is no real need of a personal CA there.

>

> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:Ox5%23XdQvIHA.2068@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...<span style="color:green">

>> [Right pew, wrong church: OE Message Rules are not applied WebDAV/HTTP

>> mail, only POP3 mail.]

>>

>> Jim wrote:<span style="color:darkred">

>>> ...Also, Hotmail is not allowing the message rules

>>> to work with the http sever... </span></span></span>

 

[Jim]

Thanks for clarifying that point.

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:epm7i9FwIHA.5472@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > I meant msoe is not allowed to apply message rules on the http hotmail

> > server.</span>

>

> It's really not a question of "being allowed," it's the fact that it OE

> doesn't do it.

>

>

> Jim wrote:<span style="color:green">

> > yes,

> > I meant msoe is not allowed to apply message rules on the http hotmail

> > server. It is working on my other pop3 accounts though and most private

> > ssl

> > etc. biz goes on with those accounts. I save Hotmail for specifically

> > connecting with the outside world and the other for the inner world of

> > family biz and people I have a specific extended biz relationship with.</span></span>

I<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > can rig Hotmail this way, but have not lately.

> >

> > I had a cert long ago, ~2k Thawte freemail personal, but have since</span></span>

found<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > it

> > difficult connect to the approved MS websites and have relied on the

> > trusted

> > root CA in the store onboard for ssl. I do not know why the link is not

> > working for me and I have seen some website at MS for this function. I

> > could

> > also use the bank, which I believe have CA and notary ability. All of my

> > pop3 mail goes thru ssl so I don't need it...this I am not certain of,</span></span>

but<span style="color:blue"><span style="color:green">

> > I

> > am assuming there is no real need of a personal CA there.

> >

> > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message

> > news:Ox5%23XdQvIHA.2068@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...<span style="color:darkred">

> >> [Right pew, wrong church: OE Message Rules are not applied WebDAV/HTTP

> >> mail, only POP3 mail.]

> >>

> >> Jim wrote:

> >>> ...Also, Hotmail is not allowing the message rules

> >>> to work with the http sever...</span></span>

></span>