Hybrid-Mania - Almost All Automakers Offering Multiple Hybrid Models

CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/10/29/hybrid.birth.ap/index.html

Article Extract :

,

Conventional wisdom was wrong; Toyota's once skeptical rivals are now

all busy making hybrids.

The Frankfurt auto show in August had hybrids galore.

Porsche AG showed off a version of its Cayenne sport utility vehicle

that is powered by hybrid technology developed with Volkswagen, and

BMW pulled back the curtain on its X6, an SUV coupe crossover hybrid.

General Motors Corp., which makes the Saturn Vue, Saturn Aura and

Chevrolet Malibu hybrids, is working on a more advanced lithium-ion

battery to beat Toyota in the race to bring to market plug-in hybrids,

which recharge from a regular home socket. GM has begun production of

a two-mode gas-electric hybrid transmission system for the 2008

Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and GMC Yukon Hybrid SUVs which uses a computer

to choose from thousands of combinations of two electric motors and

the gasoline engine.

Ford Motor Co. already has its Escape Hybrid, introduced in 2004, but

is working on improved versions. Earlier this year, Ford and Southern

California Edison agreed to test rechargeable hybrid vehicles in an

effort to speed up their mass production.

Chrysler LLC is debuting a new hybrid system next year on the Chrysler

Aspen and Dodge Durango sport utility vehicles.

Hybrids will be among the experimental, or "concept," models from

Toyota's rivals on display at the Tokyo Motor Show which opened last

week.

Toyota showed a "concept" plug-in Prius made of carbon fiber

reinforced plastic that's about a third of the weight of the current

Prius and doubles mileage.

Nissan Motor Co. has fallen behind Toyota in hybrids, and is instead

focusing on electric cars with plans to mass market them by 2012.

Toyota officials acknowledge Honda Motor Co. is their biggest threat

in developing new hybrids. Honda, which already markets the Civic

hybrid, is hot on Toyota's heels with a hybrid sports car, a fuel-cell

vehicle and other ecological cars.

Automakers worldwide seem to be taking hybrids as a serious option and

demand should grow, said Koji Endo, auto analyst with Credit Suisse

Japan. He noted interest in hybrids is growing in other parts of the

world, such as China, a burgeoning auto market.

..

- - - - -

With $100+/barrel oil on the very near horizon, it looks as

if all these hybrids will arrive just when they're wanted

and needed. Coincidence ? Hmmmm ...

Yet there ARE some important issues here.

First of all is the "plug-in" concept. Yea, it's a good

way to get your vehicle fully re-charged in a convenient

manner BUT ... if a lot of people buy these things it

will mean a big extra load on the electic utilities.

California has been doing rolling blackouts for the

past few years already - the grid just isn't up to

the summertime load and there just aren't enough

powerplants to feed that grid either. The up-front

costs to upgrade the system, much less fuel it, are

horrific. Lots of cars on the charger could push

California over the edge and introduce rolling

blackouts to quite a number of other urban areas.

Petroleum costs being high, expect plug-in cars to

ultimately create a need for lots of new coal-burning

power plants. Yuk !

Then there's the BATTERIES. They weren't all that good

when the first hybrids came out and they're STILL not

much better. They are VERY expensive to replace and

contain a lot of toxic materials. You'll get two or

maybe three years before they're shot.

The carbon-fiber Prius seems like something that should

be developed further. Simply knocking off all that weight

means you can use smaller motors AND smaller battery packs.

Carbon-fiber is no longer "exotic" technology, so mass

production ought to make it quite affordable.

In any event, it looks as if everybody is into the hybrid

craze. In five years (or less) you may not be able to buy

a non-hybrid passenger vehicle unless it's from some odd

special-niche company like Land-Rover.

Oh, and if you're a good Republican investor-type, think

about the companies that make the REPLACEMENT BATTERIES.

What's the old adage ... give away the razor and sell

the replacement blades ? :-)

Hybrids aren't the answer. Outlawing gas-guzzlers is the answer.

"B1ackwater" <bw@barrk.net> wrote in message

news:472b6ab5.3128046@news.east.earthlink.net...

> CNN

> http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/10/29/hybrid.birth.ap/index.html

>

> Article Extract :

>

> ,

> Conventional wisdom was wrong; Toyota's once skeptical rivals are now

> all busy making hybrids.

>

> The Frankfurt auto show in August had hybrids galore.

>

> Porsche AG showed off a version of its Cayenne sport utility vehicle

> that is powered by hybrid technology developed with Volkswagen, and

> BMW pulled back the curtain on its X6, an SUV coupe crossover hybrid.

>

> General Motors Corp., which makes the Saturn Vue, Saturn Aura and

> Chevrolet Malibu hybrids, is working on a more advanced lithium-ion

> battery to beat Toyota in the race to bring to market plug-in hybrids,

> which recharge from a regular home socket. GM has begun production of

> a two-mode gas-electric hybrid transmission system for the 2008

> Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and GMC Yukon Hybrid SUVs which uses a computer

> to choose from thousands of combinations of two electric motors and

> the gasoline engine.

>

> Ford Motor Co. already has its Escape Hybrid, introduced in 2004, but

> is working on improved versions. Earlier this year, Ford and Southern

> California Edison agreed to test rechargeable hybrid vehicles in an

> effort to speed up their mass production.

>

> Chrysler LLC is debuting a new hybrid system next year on the Chrysler

> Aspen and Dodge Durango sport utility vehicles.

>

> Hybrids will be among the experimental, or "concept," models from

> Toyota's rivals on display at the Tokyo Motor Show which opened last

> week.

>

> Toyota showed a "concept" plug-in Prius made of carbon fiber

> reinforced plastic that's about a third of the weight of the current

> Prius and doubles mileage.

>

> Nissan Motor Co. has fallen behind Toyota in hybrids, and is instead

> focusing on electric cars with plans to mass market them by 2012.

>

> Toyota officials acknowledge Honda Motor Co. is their biggest threat

> in developing new hybrids. Honda, which already markets the Civic

> hybrid, is hot on Toyota's heels with a hybrid sports car, a fuel-cell

> vehicle and other ecological cars.

>

> Automakers worldwide seem to be taking hybrids as a serious option and

> demand should grow, said Koji Endo, auto analyst with Credit Suisse

> Japan. He noted interest in hybrids is growing in other parts of the

> world, such as China, a burgeoning auto market.

> .

>

> - - - - -

>

> With $100+/barrel oil on the very near horizon, it looks as

> if all these hybrids will arrive just when they're wanted

> and needed. Coincidence ? Hmmmm ...

>

> Yet there ARE some important issues here.

>

> First of all is the "plug-in" concept. Yea, it's a good

> way to get your vehicle fully re-charged in a convenient

> manner BUT ... if a lot of people buy these things it

> will mean a big extra load on the electic utilities.

>

> California has been doing rolling blackouts for the

> past few years already - the grid just isn't up to

> the summertime load and there just aren't enough

> powerplants to feed that grid either. The up-front

> costs to upgrade the system, much less fuel it, are

> horrific. Lots of cars on the charger could push

> California over the edge and introduce rolling

> blackouts to quite a number of other urban areas.

>

> Petroleum costs being high, expect plug-in cars to

> ultimately create a need for lots of new coal-burning

> power plants. Yuk !

>

> Then there's the BATTERIES. They weren't all that good

> when the first hybrids came out and they're STILL not

> much better. They are VERY expensive to replace and

> contain a lot of toxic materials. You'll get two or

> maybe three years before they're shot.

>

> The carbon-fiber Prius seems like something that should

> be developed further. Simply knocking off all that weight

> means you can use smaller motors AND smaller battery packs.

> Carbon-fiber is no longer "exotic" technology, so mass

> production ought to make it quite affordable.

>

> In any event, it looks as if everybody is into the hybrid

> craze. In five years (or less) you may not be able to buy

> a non-hybrid passenger vehicle unless it's from some odd

> special-niche company like Land-Rover.

>

> Oh, and if you're a good Republican investor-type, think

> about the companies that make the REPLACEMENT BATTERIES.

> What's the old adage ... give away the razor and sell

> the replacement blades ? :-)

>

B1ackwater wrote:

> CNN

> http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/10/29/hybrid.birth.ap/index.html

>

> Article Extract :

>

> ,

> Conventional wisdom was wrong; Toyota's once skeptical rivals are now

> all busy making hybrids.

>

> The Frankfurt auto show in August had hybrids galore.

>

> Porsche AG showed off a version of its Cayenne sport utility vehicle

> that is powered by hybrid technology developed with Volkswagen, and

> BMW pulled back the curtain on its X6, an SUV coupe crossover hybrid.

>

> General Motors Corp., which makes the Saturn Vue, Saturn Aura and

> Chevrolet Malibu hybrids, is working on a more advanced lithium-ion

> battery to beat Toyota in the race to bring to market plug-in hybrids,

> which recharge from a regular home socket. GM has begun production of

> a two-mode gas-electric hybrid transmission system for the 2008

> Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and GMC Yukon Hybrid SUVs which uses a computer

> to choose from thousands of combinations of two electric motors and

> the gasoline engine.

>

> Ford Motor Co. already has its Escape Hybrid, introduced in 2004, but

> is working on improved versions. Earlier this year, Ford and Southern

> California Edison agreed to test rechargeable hybrid vehicles in an

> effort to speed up their mass production.

>

> Chrysler LLC is debuting a new hybrid system next year on the Chrysler

> Aspen and Dodge Durango sport utility vehicles.

>

> Hybrids will be among the experimental, or "concept," models from

> Toyota's rivals on display at the Tokyo Motor Show which opened last

> week.

>

> Toyota showed a "concept" plug-in Prius made of carbon fiber

> reinforced plastic that's about a third of the weight of the current

> Prius and doubles mileage.

>

> Nissan Motor Co. has fallen behind Toyota in hybrids, and is instead

> focusing on electric cars with plans to mass market them by 2012.

>

> Toyota officials acknowledge Honda Motor Co. is their biggest threat

> in developing new hybrids. Honda, which already markets the Civic

> hybrid, is hot on Toyota's heels with a hybrid sports car, a fuel-cell

> vehicle and other ecological cars.

>

> Automakers worldwide seem to be taking hybrids as a serious option and

> demand should grow, said Koji Endo, auto analyst with Credit Suisse

> Japan. He noted interest in hybrids is growing in other parts of the

> world, such as China, a burgeoning auto market.

> .

>

> - - - - -

>

> With $100+/barrel oil on the very near horizon, it looks as

> if all these hybrids will arrive just when they're wanted

> and needed. Coincidence ? Hmmmm ...

>

> Yet there ARE some important issues here.

>

> First of all is the "plug-in" concept. Yea, it's a good

> way to get your vehicle fully re-charged in a convenient

> manner BUT ... if a lot of people buy these things it

> will mean a big extra load on the electic utilities.

Mostly at night, when demand is normally low.

> California has been doing rolling blackouts for the

> past few years already - the grid just isn't up to

> the summertime load and there just aren't enough

> powerplants to feed that grid either. The up-front

> costs to upgrade the system, much less fuel it, are

> horrific. Lots of cars on the charger could push

> California over the edge and introduce rolling

> blackouts to quite a number of other urban areas.

>

> Petroleum costs being high, expect plug-in cars to

> ultimately create a need for lots of new coal-burning

> power plants. Yuk !

Not likely, and who says the new plants have to be coal-burning

anyway?

> Then there's the BATTERIES. They weren't all that good

> when the first hybrids came out and they're STILL not

> much better. They are VERY expensive to replace and

> contain a lot of toxic materials. You'll get two or

> maybe three years before they're shot.

Battery technology is improving all the time. And batteries can be

recycled. It's a cost, but it's not a prohibitive one.

> The carbon-fiber Prius seems like something that should

> be developed further. Simply knocking off all that weight

> means you can use smaller motors AND smaller battery packs.

> Carbon-fiber is no longer "exotic" technology, so mass

> production ought to make it quite affordable.

True.

> In any event, it looks as if everybody is into the hybrid

> craze. In five years (or less) you may not be able to buy

> a non-hybrid passenger vehicle unless it's from some odd

> special-niche company like Land-Rover.

One can hope. Though the electric car managed to get killed by the

auto makers.

> Oh, and if you're a good Republican investor-type, think

> about the companies that make the REPLACEMENT BATTERIES.

> What's the old adage ... give away the razor and sell

> the replacement blades ? :-)

There's lots of money in new technologies. But those who make the old

technologies always seem to fetter the free market when it suits their

interests. But don't try to convince a Republican of that.

--Jeff

--

"Power never concedes anything without a

demand. It never has and it never will."

--Frederick Douglass

"Jeffrey Turner" <jturner@localnet.com> wrote in message

news:13iq7kd72elu841@corp.supernews.com...

> B1ackwater wrote:

>

>> CNN

>> http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/10/29/hybrid.birth.ap/index.html

>>

>> Article Extract :

>>

>> ,

>> Conventional wisdom was wrong; Toyota's once skeptical rivals are now

>> all busy making hybrids.

>>

>> The Frankfurt auto show in August had hybrids galore.

>>

>> Porsche AG showed off a version of its Cayenne sport utility vehicle

>> that is powered by hybrid technology developed with Volkswagen, and

>> BMW pulled back the curtain on its X6, an SUV coupe crossover hybrid.

>>

>> General Motors Corp., which makes the Saturn Vue, Saturn Aura and

>> Chevrolet Malibu hybrids, is working on a more advanced lithium-ion

>> battery to beat Toyota in the race to bring to market plug-in hybrids,

>> which recharge from a regular home socket. GM has begun production of

>> a two-mode gas-electric hybrid transmission system for the 2008

>> Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and GMC Yukon Hybrid SUVs which uses a computer

>> to choose from thousands of combinations of two electric motors and

>> the gasoline engine.

>>

>> Ford Motor Co. already has its Escape Hybrid, introduced in 2004, but

>> is working on improved versions. Earlier this year, Ford and Southern

>> California Edison agreed to test rechargeable hybrid vehicles in an

>> effort to speed up their mass production.

>>

>> Chrysler LLC is debuting a new hybrid system next year on the Chrysler

>> Aspen and Dodge Durango sport utility vehicles.

>>

>> Hybrids will be among the experimental, or "concept," models from

>> Toyota's rivals on display at the Tokyo Motor Show which opened last

>> week.

>>

>> Toyota showed a "concept" plug-in Prius made of carbon fiber

>> reinforced plastic that's about a third of the weight of the current

>> Prius and doubles mileage.

>>

>> Nissan Motor Co. has fallen behind Toyota in hybrids, and is instead

>> focusing on electric cars with plans to mass market them by 2012.

>>

>> Toyota officials acknowledge Honda Motor Co. is their biggest threat

>> in developing new hybrids. Honda, which already markets the Civic

>> hybrid, is hot on Toyota's heels with a hybrid sports car, a fuel-cell

>> vehicle and other ecological cars.

>>

>> Automakers worldwide seem to be taking hybrids as a serious option and

>> demand should grow, said Koji Endo, auto analyst with Credit Suisse

>> Japan. He noted interest in hybrids is growing in other parts of the

>> world, such as China, a burgeoning auto market.

>> .

>>

>> - - - - -

>>

>> With $100+/barrel oil on the very near horizon, it looks as

>> if all these hybrids will arrive just when they're wanted

>> and needed. Coincidence ? Hmmmm ... Yet there ARE some important

>> issues here. First of all is the "plug-in" concept. Yea, it's a good

>> way to get your vehicle fully re-charged in a convenient

>> manner BUT ... if a lot of people buy these things it

>> will mean a big extra load on the electic utilities.

>

> Mostly at night, when demand is normally low.

Which all but rules out solar and wind as the primary power sources :-(

>> California has been doing rolling blackouts for the

>> past few years already - the grid just isn't up to

>> the summertime load and there just aren't enough

>> powerplants to feed that grid either. The up-front

>> costs to upgrade the system, much less fuel it, are

>> horrific. Lots of cars on the charger could push

>> California over the edge and introduce rolling blackouts to quite a

>> number of other urban areas. Petroleum costs being high, expect plug-in

>> cars to

>> ultimately create a need for lots of new coal-burning

>> power plants. Yuk !

>

> Not likely, and who says the new plants have to be coal-burning

> anyway?

Right. This seems like an excellent application for wind and solar power

generation, since minute-to-minute fluctuations won't matter if you're

simply charging up batteries. The grid, OTOH, must be managed on a

second-by-second basis to prevent brownouts, spikes, etc.

>> Then there's the BATTERIES. They weren't all that good

>> when the first hybrids came out and they're STILL not

>> much better. They are VERY expensive to replace and

>> contain a lot of toxic materials. You'll get two or

>> maybe three years before they're shot.

>

> Battery technology is improving all the time. And batteries can be

> recycled. It's a cost, but it's not a prohibitive one.

Define "prohibitive?" Cheap, reliable, safe electrical power storage

(nominally batteries) are the lynchpin to the emergent market for plug-in

electric cars. By "cheap", I mean competitive with non-electric vechicles.

Early adopters are willing to pay a premium. Others will not be

(until/unless they are forced to do so).

>> The carbon-fiber Prius seems like something that should

>> be developed further. Simply knocking off all that weight

>> means you can use smaller motors AND smaller battery packs.

>> Carbon-fiber is no longer "exotic" technology, so mass

>> production ought to make it quite affordable.

>

> True.

I call it "carpet fiber," because the graphite monofilament yarns are

produced by heating synthetic (acrylonitrile) fibers similar to those used

in carpets. I've read about composites similar to carbon fiber that are

produced entirely from plant derivatives (hemp and castor bean oil). Not

sure what the state of that technology is currently.

GM has been experimenting with carbon fiber production techniques for many

years. The Autonomy platform is made of carbon fiber. Right now, Autonomy

is a fuel cell platform; but it could be converted to a plug-in electric

easily, since it is an all-electric, direct-drive design (each wheel has an

electric motor/brake unit). Just replace the fuel cell with batteries, and

suitable control system mods, and you have the electric car of the future.

Mass production would bring the price down to reasonable. It's ultra-light

because there is no drivetrain.

>> In any event, it looks as if everybody is into the hybrid

>> craze. In five years (or less) you may not be able to buy

>> a non-hybrid passenger vehicle unless it's from some odd

>> special-niche company like Land-Rover.

>

> One can hope. Though the electric car managed to get killed by the

> auto makers.

Chevron owns the patents for cheap NiMH batteries that last the life of a

car. So yes, it is a conspiracy to withhold technology; but not necessarily

the fault of the automakers. Qui bono?

>> Oh, and if you're a good Republican investor-type, think

>> about the companies that make the REPLACEMENT BATTERIES.

>> What's the old adage ... give away the razor and sell

>> the replacement blades ? :-)

>

> There's lots of money in new technologies. But those who make the old

> technologies always seem to fetter the free market when it suits their

> interests. But don't try to convince a Republican of that.

I used to tolerate Republicans as harmless homophobic kooks. Now I watch

them like a hawk, and assume that they are malevolent, lying traitors.

What Me Worry? wrote:

> "Jeffrey Turner" <jturner@localnet.com> wrote in message

> news:13iq7kd72elu841@corp.supernews.com...

>

>>B1ackwater wrote:

>>

>>

>>>CNN

>>>http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/10/29/hybrid.birth.ap/index.html

>>>

>>>Article Extract :

>>>

>>>,

>>>Conventional wisdom was wrong; Toyota's once skeptical rivals are now

>>>all busy making hybrids.

>>>

>>>The Frankfurt auto show in August had hybrids galore.

>>>

>>>Porsche AG showed off a version of its Cayenne sport utility vehicle

>>>that is powered by hybrid technology developed with Volkswagen, and

>>>BMW pulled back the curtain on its X6, an SUV coupe crossover hybrid.

>>>

>>>General Motors Corp., which makes the Saturn Vue, Saturn Aura and

>>>Chevrolet Malibu hybrids, is working on a more advanced lithium-ion

>>>battery to beat Toyota in the race to bring to market plug-in hybrids,

>>>which recharge from a regular home socket. GM has begun production of

>>>a two-mode gas-electric hybrid transmission system for the 2008

>>>Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and GMC Yukon Hybrid SUVs which uses a computer

>>>to choose from thousands of combinations of two electric motors and

>>>the gasoline engine.

>>>

>>>Ford Motor Co. already has its Escape Hybrid, introduced in 2004, but

>>>is working on improved versions. Earlier this year, Ford and Southern

>>>California Edison agreed to test rechargeable hybrid vehicles in an

>>>effort to speed up their mass production.

>>>

>>>Chrysler LLC is debuting a new hybrid system next year on the Chrysler

>>>Aspen and Dodge Durango sport utility vehicles.

>>>

>>>Hybrids will be among the experimental, or "concept," models from

>>>Toyota's rivals on display at the Tokyo Motor Show which opened last

>>>week.

>>>

>>>Toyota showed a "concept" plug-in Prius made of carbon fiber

>>>reinforced plastic that's about a third of the weight of the current

>>>Prius and doubles mileage.

>>>

>>>Nissan Motor Co. has fallen behind Toyota in hybrids, and is instead

>>>focusing on electric cars with plans to mass market them by 2012.

>>>

>>>Toyota officials acknowledge Honda Motor Co. is their biggest threat

>>>in developing new hybrids. Honda, which already markets the Civic

>>>hybrid, is hot on Toyota's heels with a hybrid sports car, a fuel-cell

>>>vehicle and other ecological cars.

>>>

>>>Automakers worldwide seem to be taking hybrids as a serious option and

>>>demand should grow, said Koji Endo, auto analyst with Credit Suisse

>>>Japan. He noted interest in hybrids is growing in other parts of the

>>>world, such as China, a burgeoning auto market.

>>>.

>>>

>>>- - - - -

>>>

>>> With $100+/barrel oil on the very near horizon, it looks as

>>> if all these hybrids will arrive just when they're wanted

>>> and needed. Coincidence ? Hmmmm ... Yet there ARE some important

>>>issues here. First of all is the "plug-in" concept. Yea, it's a good

>>> way to get your vehicle fully re-charged in a convenient

>>> manner BUT ... if a lot of people buy these things it

>>> will mean a big extra load on the electic utilities.

>>

>>Mostly at night, when demand is normally low.

>

> Which all but rules out solar and wind as the primary power sources :-(

Solar sure - except with storage - but wind?

>>> California has been doing rolling blackouts for the

>>> past few years already - the grid just isn't up to

>>> the summertime load and there just aren't enough

>>> powerplants to feed that grid either. The up-front

>>> costs to upgrade the system, much less fuel it, are

>>> horrific. Lots of cars on the charger could push

>>> California over the edge and introduce rolling blackouts to quite a

>>>number of other urban areas. Petroleum costs being high, expect plug-in

>>>cars to

>>> ultimately create a need for lots of new coal-burning

>>> power plants. Yuk !

>>

>>Not likely, and who says the new plants have to be coal-burning

>>anyway?

>

> Right. This seems like an excellent application for wind and solar power

> generation, since minute-to-minute fluctuations won't matter if you're

> simply charging up batteries. The grid, OTOH, must be managed on a

> second-by-second basis to prevent brownouts, spikes, etc.

>

>>> Then there's the BATTERIES. They weren't all that good

>>> when the first hybrids came out and they're STILL not

>>> much better. They are VERY expensive to replace and

>>> contain a lot of toxic materials. You'll get two or

>>> maybe three years before they're shot.

>>

>>Battery technology is improving all the time. And batteries can be

>>recycled. It's a cost, but it's not a prohibitive one.

>

> Define "prohibitive?" Cheap, reliable, safe electrical power storage

> (nominally batteries) are the lynchpin to the emergent market for plug-in

> electric cars. By "cheap", I mean competitive with non-electric vechicles.

> Early adopters are willing to pay a premium. Others will not be

> (until/unless they are forced to do so).

Analysts estimate the price premium for today

"Jeffrey Turner" <jturner@localnet.com> wrote in message

news:13isal2r079m8c2@corp.supernews.com...

> What Me Worry? wrote:

>

>> "Jeffrey Turner" <jturner@localnet.com> wrote in message

>> news:13iq7kd72elu841@corp.supernews.com...

>>

>>>B1ackwater wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>>CNN

>>>>http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/10/29/hybrid.birth.ap/index.html

>>>>

>>>>Article Extract :

>>>>

>>>>,

>>>>Conventional wisdom was wrong; Toyota's once skeptical rivals are now

>>>>all busy making hybrids.

>>>>

>>>>The Frankfurt auto show in August had hybrids galore.

>>>>

>>>>Porsche AG showed off a version of its Cayenne sport utility vehicle

>>>>that is powered by hybrid technology developed with Volkswagen, and

>>>>BMW pulled back the curtain on its X6, an SUV coupe crossover hybrid.

>>>>

>>>>General Motors Corp., which makes the Saturn Vue, Saturn Aura and

>>>>Chevrolet Malibu hybrids, is working on a more advanced lithium-ion

>>>>battery to beat Toyota in the race to bring to market plug-in hybrids,

>>>>which recharge from a regular home socket. GM has begun production of

>>>>a two-mode gas-electric hybrid transmission system for the 2008

>>>>Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and GMC Yukon Hybrid SUVs which uses a computer

>>>>to choose from thousands of combinations of two electric motors and

>>>>the gasoline engine.

>>>>

>>>>Ford Motor Co. already has its Escape Hybrid, introduced in 2004, but

>>>>is working on improved versions. Earlier this year, Ford and Southern

>>>>California Edison agreed to test rechargeable hybrid vehicles in an

>>>>effort to speed up their mass production.

>>>>

>>>>Chrysler LLC is debuting a new hybrid system next year on the Chrysler

>>>>Aspen and Dodge Durango sport utility vehicles.

>>>>

>>>>Hybrids will be among the experimental, or "concept," models from

>>>>Toyota's rivals on display at the Tokyo Motor Show which opened last

>>>>week.

>>>>

>>>>Toyota showed a "concept" plug-in Prius made of carbon fiber

>>>>reinforced plastic that's about a third of the weight of the current

>>>>Prius and doubles mileage.

>>>>

>>>>Nissan Motor Co. has fallen behind Toyota in hybrids, and is instead

>>>>focusing on electric cars with plans to mass market them by 2012.

>>>>

>>>>Toyota officials acknowledge Honda Motor Co. is their biggest threat

>>>>in developing new hybrids. Honda, which already markets the Civic

>>>>hybrid, is hot on Toyota's heels with a hybrid sports car, a fuel-cell

>>>>vehicle and other ecological cars.

>>>>

>>>>Automakers worldwide seem to be taking hybrids as a serious option and

>>>>demand should grow, said Koji Endo, auto analyst with Credit Suisse

>>>>Japan. He noted interest in hybrids is growing in other parts of the

>>>>world, such as China, a burgeoning auto market.

>>>>.

>>>>

>>>>- - - - -

>>>>

>>>> With $100+/barrel oil on the very near horizon, it looks as

>>>> if all these hybrids will arrive just when they're wanted

>>>> and needed. Coincidence ? Hmmmm ... Yet there ARE some important

>>>> issues here. First of all is the "plug-in" concept. Yea, it's a good

>>>> way to get your vehicle fully re-charged in a convenient

>>>> manner BUT ... if a lot of people buy these things it

>>>> will mean a big extra load on the electic utilities.

>>>

>>>Mostly at night, when demand is normally low.

>>

>> Which all but rules out solar and wind as the primary power sources :-(

>

> Solar sure - except with storage - but wind?

Depends on the area. It would still be viable.

>>>> California has been doing rolling blackouts for the

>>>> past few years already - the grid just isn't up to

>>>> the summertime load and there just aren't enough

>>>> powerplants to feed that grid either. The up-front

>>>> costs to upgrade the system, much less fuel it, are

>>>> horrific. Lots of cars on the charger could push

>>>> California over the edge and introduce rolling blackouts to quite a

>>>> number of other urban areas. Petroleum costs being high, expect plug-in

>>>> cars to

>>>> ultimately create a need for lots of new coal-burning

>>>> power plants. Yuk !

>>>

>>>Not likely, and who says the new plants have to be coal-burning

>>>anyway?

>>

>> Right. This seems like an excellent application for wind and solar power

>> generation, since minute-to-minute fluctuations won't matter if you're

>> simply charging up batteries. The grid, OTOH, must be managed on a

>> second-by-second basis to prevent brownouts, spikes, etc.

>>

>>>> Then there's the BATTERIES. They weren't all that good

>>>> when the first hybrids came out and they're STILL not

>>>> much better. They are VERY expensive to replace and

>>>> contain a lot of toxic materials. You'll get two or

>>>> maybe three years before they're shot.

>>>

>>>Battery technology is improving all the time. And batteries can be

>>>recycled. It's a cost, but it's not a prohibitive one.

>>

>> Define "prohibitive?" Cheap, reliable, safe electrical power storage

>> (nominally batteries) are the lynchpin to the emergent market for plug-in

>> electric cars. By "cheap", I mean competitive with non-electric

>> vechicles. Early adopters are willing to pay a premium. Others will not

>> be (until/unless they are forced to do so).

>

> Analysts estimate the price premium for today