In the first time in American history! Republican admninistration presses forward on internal passpo

January 11, 2008

17 States Stuck in License Showdown

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 2:27 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Residents of at least 17 states are suddenly stuck in the

middle of a fight between the Bush administration and state governments over

post-Sept. 11 security rules for driver's licenses -- a dispute that, by

May, could leave millions of people unable to use their licenses to board

planes or enter federal buildings.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who was unveiling final

details of the REAL ID Act's rules on Friday, said that if states want their

licenses to remain valid for air travel after May 2008, those states must

seek a waiver indicating they want more time to comply with the legislation.

Chertoff, as he revealed final details of the REAL ID Act, said that in

instances where a particular state doesn't seek a waiver, its residents will

have to use a passport or a newly created federal passport card if they want

to avoid a vigorous secondary screening at airport security.

''The last thing I want to do is punish citizens of a state who would love

to have a REAL ID license but can't get one,'' Chertoff said. ''But in the

end, the rule is the rule as passed by Congress.''

Chertoff spoke as he discussed the details of the administration's plan to

improve security for driver's licenses in all 50 states -- an effort delayed

due to opposition from states worried about the cost and civil libertarians

upset about what they believe are invasions of privacy.

Under the rules announced Friday, Americans born after Dec. 1, 1964, will

have to get more secure driver's licenses in the next six years.

The Homeland Security Department has spent years crafting the final

regulations for the REAL ID Act, a law designed to make it harder for

terrorists, illegal immigrants and con artists to get government-issued

identification. The effort once envisioned to take effect in 2008 has been

pushed back in the hopes of winning over skeptical state officials.

To address some of those concerns, the government now plans to phase in a

secure ID initiative that Congress approved in 2005. Now, DHS plans a key

deadline in 2011 -- when federal authorities hope all states will be in

compliance -- and then further measures to be enacted three years later.

To make the plan more appealing to cost-conscious states, federal

authorities drastically reduced the expected cost from $14.6 billion to $3.9

billion, a 73 percent decline, said Homeland Security officials familiar

with the plan.

The American Civil Liberties Union has fiercely objected to the effort,

particularly the sharing of personal data among government agencies. The DHS

and other officials say the only way to ensure an ID is safe is to check it

against secure government data; critics such as the ACLU say that creates a

system that is more likely to be infiltrated and have its personal data

pilfered.

In its written objection to the law, the ACLU claims REAL ID amounts to the

''first-ever national identity card system,'' which ''would irreparably

damage the fabric of American life.''

The Sept. 11 attacks were the main motivation for the changes.

The hijacker-pilot who flew into the Pentagon, Hani Hanjour, had four

driver's licenses and ID cards from three states. The DHS, created in

response to the attacks, has created a slogan for REAL ID: ''One driver, one

license.''

By 2014, anyone seeking to board an airplane or enter a federal building

would have to present a REAL ID-compliant driver's license, with the notable

exception of those more than 50 years old, Homeland Security officials said.

The over-50 exemption was created to give states more time to get everyone

new licenses, and officials say the risk of someone in that age group being

a terrorist, illegal immigrant or con artist is much less. By 2017, even

those over 50 must have a REAL ID-compliant card to board a plane.

So far, 17 states have passed legislation or resolutions objecting to the

REAL ID Act's provisions, many due to concerns it will cost them too much to

comply. The 17, according to the ACLU, are: Arizona, Colorado, Georgia,

Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Maine, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New

Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee and Washington

state.

Among other details of the REAL ID plan:

The traditional driver's license photograph would be taken at the beginning

of the application instead of the end so that if someone is rejected for

failure to prove identity and citizenship, the applicant's photo would be

kept on file and checked if that person tried to con the system again.

The cards will have three layers of security measures but will not contain

microchips as some had expected. States will be able to choose from a menu

which security measures they will put in their cards.

Over the next year, the government expects all states to begin checking both

the Social Security numbers and immigration status of license applicants.

Most states already check Social Security numbers and about half check

immigration status. Some, like New York, Virginia, North Carolina and

California, have already implemented many of the security measures

envisioned in REAL ID. In California, for example, officials expect the only

major change to adopt the first phase would be to take the photograph at the

beginning of the application process instead of the end.

After the Social Security and immigration status checks become nationwide

practice, officials plan to move on to more expansive security checks,

including state DMV offices checking with the State Department to verify

those applicants who use passports to get a driver's license, verifying

birth certificates and checking with other states to ensure an applicant

doesn't have more than one license.

A few states have already signed written agreements indicating they plan to

comply with REAL ID. Seventeen others, though, have passed legislation or

resolutions objecting to it, often because of concerns about the cost of the

extra security.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>January 11, 2008

>

>17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>

Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

Jim999 wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

>

>>January 11, 2008

>>

>>17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>

>

> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

I don't want to be a bean.

On Jan 11, 2:24 pm, Jim999 <iwantnom...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> >January 11, 2008

>

> >17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>

> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

keeping "big government" out of their lives, maybe?

maybe not

Jim999 wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

>> January 11, 2008

>>

>> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>

> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

Why does the NRA opposes gun registration?

Just out of curiosity, what about those who do not drive? And as the

article points out, what is to prevent a terrorist from getting a drivers

license?

"Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:JGPhj.38621$k27.4026@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

> January 11, 2008

>

> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>

> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

>

> Filed at 2:27 p.m. ET

>

> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Residents of at least 17 states are suddenly stuck in

> the middle of a fight between the Bush administration and state

> governments over post-Sept. 11 security rules for driver's licenses -- a

> dispute that, by May, could leave millions of people unable to use their

> licenses to board planes or enter federal buildings.

>

> Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who was unveiling final

> details of the REAL ID Act's rules on Friday, said that if states want

> their licenses to remain valid for air travel after May 2008, those states

> must seek a waiver indicating they want more time to comply with the

> legislation.

>

> Chertoff, as he revealed final details of the REAL ID Act, said that in

> instances where a particular state doesn't seek a waiver, its residents

> will have to use a passport or a newly created federal passport card if

> they want to avoid a vigorous secondary screening at airport security.

>

> ''The last thing I want to do is punish citizens of a state who would love

> to have a REAL ID license but can't get one,'' Chertoff said. ''But in the

> end, the rule is the rule as passed by Congress.''

>

> Chertoff spoke as he discussed the details of the administration's plan to

> improve security for driver's licenses in all 50 states -- an effort

> delayed due to opposition from states worried about the cost and civil

> libertarians upset about what they believe are invasions of privacy.

>

> Under the rules announced Friday, Americans born after Dec. 1, 1964, will

> have to get more secure driver's licenses in the next six years.

>

> The Homeland Security Department has spent years crafting the final

> regulations for the REAL ID Act, a law designed to make it harder for

> terrorists, illegal immigrants and con artists to get government-issued

> identification. The effort once envisioned to take effect in 2008 has been

> pushed back in the hopes of winning over skeptical state officials.

>

> To address some of those concerns, the government now plans to phase in a

> secure ID initiative that Congress approved in 2005. Now, DHS plans a key

> deadline in 2011 -- when federal authorities hope all states will be in

> compliance -- and then further measures to be enacted three years later.

>

> To make the plan more appealing to cost-conscious states, federal

> authorities drastically reduced the expected cost from $14.6 billion to

> $3.9 billion, a 73 percent decline, said Homeland Security officials

> familiar with the plan.

>

> The American Civil Liberties Union has fiercely objected to the effort,

> particularly the sharing of personal data among government agencies. The

> DHS and other officials say the only way to ensure an ID is safe is to

> check it against secure government data; critics such as the ACLU say that

> creates a system that is more likely to be infiltrated and have its

> personal data pilfered.

>

> In its written objection to the law, the ACLU claims REAL ID amounts to

> the ''first-ever national identity card system,'' which ''would

> irreparably damage the fabric of American life.''

>

> The Sept. 11 attacks were the main motivation for the changes.

>

> The hijacker-pilot who flew into the Pentagon, Hani Hanjour, had four

> driver's licenses and ID cards from three states. The DHS, created in

> response to the attacks, has created a slogan for REAL ID: ''One driver,

> one license.''

>

> By 2014, anyone seeking to board an airplane or enter a federal building

> would have to present a REAL ID-compliant driver's license, with the

> notable exception of those more than 50 years old, Homeland Security

> officials said.

>

> The over-50 exemption was created to give states more time to get everyone

> new licenses, and officials say the risk of someone in that age group

> being a terrorist, illegal immigrant or con artist is much less. By 2017,

> even those over 50 must have a REAL ID-compliant card to board a plane.

>

> So far, 17 states have passed legislation or resolutions objecting to the

> REAL ID Act's provisions, many due to concerns it will cost them too much

> to comply. The 17, according to the ACLU, are: Arizona, Colorado, Georgia,

> Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Maine, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New

> Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee and

> Washington state.

>

> Among other details of the REAL ID plan:

>

> The traditional driver's license photograph would be taken at the

> beginning of the application instead of the end so that if someone is

> rejected for failure to prove identity and citizenship, the applicant's

> photo would be kept on file and checked if that person tried to con the

> system again.

>

> The cards will have three layers of security measures but will not contain

> microchips as some had expected. States will be able to choose from a menu

> which security measures they will put in their cards.

>

> Over the next year, the government expects all states to begin checking

> both the Social Security numbers and immigration status of license

> applicants.

>

> Most states already check Social Security numbers and about half check

> immigration status. Some, like New York, Virginia, North Carolina and

> California, have already implemented many of the security measures

> envisioned in REAL ID. In California, for example, officials expect the

> only major change to adopt the first phase would be to take the photograph

> at the beginning of the application process instead of the end.

>

> After the Social Security and immigration status checks become nationwide

> practice, officials plan to move on to more expansive security checks,

> including state DMV offices checking with the State Department to verify

> those applicants who use passports to get a driver's license, verifying

> birth certificates and checking with other states to ensure an applicant

> doesn't have more than one license.

>

> A few states have already signed written agreements indicating they plan

> to comply with REAL ID. Seventeen others, though, have passed legislation

> or resolutions objecting to it, often because of concerns about the cost

> of the extra security.

>

>

>

One more thought. Say you are catching a plane from Virginia. How will the

screeners know that the drivers license you show them from say Hawaii, is an

authentic drivers license?

"Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:JGPhj.38621$k27.4026@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

> January 11, 2008

>

> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>

> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

>

> Filed at 2:27 p.m. ET

>

> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Residents of at least 17 states are suddenly stuck in

> the middle of a fight between the Bush administration and state

> governments over post-Sept. 11 security rules for driver's licenses -- a

> dispute that, by May, could leave millions of people unable to use their

> licenses to board planes or enter federal buildings.

>

> Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who was unveiling final

> details of the REAL ID Act's rules on Friday, said that if states want

> their licenses to remain valid for air travel after May 2008, those states

> must seek a waiver indicating they want more time to comply with the

> legislation.

>

> Chertoff, as he revealed final details of the REAL ID Act, said that in

> instances where a particular state doesn't seek a waiver, its residents

> will have to use a passport or a newly created federal passport card if

> they want to avoid a vigorous secondary screening at airport security.

>

> ''The last thing I want to do is punish citizens of a state who would love

> to have a REAL ID license but can't get one,'' Chertoff said. ''But in the

> end, the rule is the rule as passed by Congress.''

>

> Chertoff spoke as he discussed the details of the administration's plan to

> improve security for driver's licenses in all 50 states -- an effort

> delayed due to opposition from states worried about the cost and civil

> libertarians upset about what they believe are invasions of privacy.

>

> Under the rules announced Friday, Americans born after Dec. 1, 1964, will

> have to get more secure driver's licenses in the next six years.

>

> The Homeland Security Department has spent years crafting the final

> regulations for the REAL ID Act, a law designed to make it harder for

> terrorists, illegal immigrants and con artists to get government-issued

> identification. The effort once envisioned to take effect in 2008 has been

> pushed back in the hopes of winning over skeptical state officials.

>

> To address some of those concerns, the government now plans to phase in a

> secure ID initiative that Congress approved in 2005. Now, DHS plans a key

> deadline in 2011 -- when federal authorities hope all states will be in

> compliance -- and then further measures to be enacted three years later.

>

> To make the plan more appealing to cost-conscious states, federal

> authorities drastically reduced the expected cost from $14.6 billion to

> $3.9 billion, a 73 percent decline, said Homeland Security officials

> familiar with the plan.

>

> The American Civil Liberties Union has fiercely objected to the effort,

> particularly the sharing of personal data among government agencies. The

> DHS and other officials say the only way to ensure an ID is safe is to

> check it against secure government data; critics such as the ACLU say that

> creates a system that is more likely to be infiltrated and have its

> personal data pilfered.

>

> In its written objection to the law, the ACLU claims REAL ID amounts to

> the ''first-ever national identity card system,'' which ''would

> irreparably damage the fabric of American life.''

>

> The Sept. 11 attacks were the main motivation for the changes.

>

> The hijacker-pilot who flew into the Pentagon, Hani Hanjour, had four

> driver's licenses and ID cards from three states. The DHS, created in

> response to the attacks, has created a slogan for REAL ID: ''One driver,

> one license.''

>

> By 2014, anyone seeking to board an airplane or enter a federal building

> would have to present a REAL ID-compliant driver's license, with the

> notable exception of those more than 50 years old, Homeland Security

> officials said.

>

> The over-50 exemption was created to give states more time to get everyone

> new licenses, and officials say the risk of someone in that age group

> being a terrorist, illegal immigrant or con artist is much less. By 2017,

> even those over 50 must have a REAL ID-compliant card to board a plane.

>

> So far, 17 states have passed legislation or resolutions objecting to the

> REAL ID Act's provisions, many due to concerns it will cost them too much

> to comply. The 17, according to the ACLU, are: Arizona, Colorado, Georgia,

> Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Maine, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New

> Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee and

> Washington state.

>

> Among other details of the REAL ID plan:

>

> The traditional driver's license photograph would be taken at the

> beginning of the application instead of the end so that if someone is

> rejected for failure to prove identity and citizenship, the applicant's

> photo would be kept on file and checked if that person tried to con the

> system again.

>

> The cards will have three layers of security measures but will not contain

> microchips as some had expected. States will be able to choose from a menu

> which security measures they will put in their cards.

>

> Over the next year, the government expects all states to begin checking

> both the Social Security numbers and immigration status of license

> applicants.

>

> Most states already check Social Security numbers and about half check

> immigration status. Some, like New York, Virginia, North Carolina and

> California, have already implemented many of the security measures

> envisioned in REAL ID. In California, for example, officials expect the

> only major change to adopt the first phase would be to take the photograph

> at the beginning of the application process instead of the end.

>

> After the Social Security and immigration status checks become nationwide

> practice, officials plan to move on to more expansive security checks,

> including state DMV offices checking with the State Department to verify

> those applicants who use passports to get a driver's license, verifying

> birth certificates and checking with other states to ensure an applicant

> doesn't have more than one license.

>

> A few states have already signed written agreements indicating they plan

> to comply with REAL ID. Seventeen others, though, have passed legislation

> or resolutions objecting to it, often because of concerns about the cost

> of the extra security.

>

>

>

"Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:JGPhj.38621$k27.4026@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

> January 11, 2008

>

> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>

> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

>

> Filed at 2:27 p.m. ET

>

> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Residents of at least 17 states are suddenly stuck in

> the middle of a fight between the Bush administration and state

> governments over post-Sept. 11 security rules for driver's licenses -- a

> dispute that, by May, could leave millions of people unable to use their

> licenses to board planes or enter federal buildings.

>

> Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who was unveiling final

> details of the REAL ID Act's rules on Friday, said that if states want

> their licenses to remain valid for air travel after May 2008, those states

> must seek a waiver indicating they want more time to comply with the

> legislation.

>

> Chertoff, as he revealed final details of the REAL ID Act, said that in

> instances where a particular state doesn't seek a waiver, its residents

> will have to use a passport or a newly created federal passport card if

> they want to avoid a vigorous secondary screening at airport security.

>

> ''The last thing I want to do is punish citizens of a state who would love

> to have a REAL ID license but can't get one,'' Chertoff said. ''But in the

> end, the rule is the rule as passed by Congress.''

>

> Chertoff spoke as he discussed the details of the administration's plan to

> improve security for driver's licenses in all 50 states -- an effort

> delayed due to opposition from states worried about the cost and civil

> libertarians upset about what they believe are invasions of privacy.

>

> Under the rules announced Friday, Americans born after Dec. 1, 1964, will

> have to get more secure driver's licenses in the next six years.

>

> The Homeland Security Department has spent years crafting the final

> regulations for the REAL ID Act, a law designed to make it harder for

> terrorists, illegal immigrants and con artists to get government-issued

> identification. The effort once envisioned to take effect in 2008 has been

> pushed back in the hopes of winning over skeptical state officials.

>

> To address some of those concerns, the government now plans to phase in a

> secure ID initiative that Congress approved in 2005. Now, DHS plans a key

> deadline in 2011 -- when federal authorities hope all states will be in

> compliance -- and then further measures to be enacted three years later.

>

> To make the plan more appealing to cost-conscious states, federal

> authorities drastically reduced the expected cost from $14.6 billion to

> $3.9 billion, a 73 percent decline, said Homeland Security officials

> familiar with the plan.

>

> The American Civil Liberties Union has fiercely objected to the effort,

> particularly the sharing of personal data among government agencies. The

> DHS and other officials say the only way to ensure an ID is safe is to

> check it against secure government data; critics such as the ACLU say that

> creates a system that is more likely to be infiltrated and have its

> personal data pilfered.

>

> In its written objection to the law, the ACLU claims REAL ID amounts to

> the ''first-ever national identity card system,'' which ''would

> irreparably damage the fabric of American life.''

>

> The Sept. 11 attacks were the main motivation for the changes.

>

> The hijacker-pilot who flew into the Pentagon, Hani Hanjour, had four

> driver's licenses and ID cards from three states. The DHS, created in

> response to the attacks, has created a slogan for REAL ID: ''One driver,

> one license.''

>

> By 2014, anyone seeking to board an airplane or enter a federal building

> would have to present a REAL ID-compliant driver's license, with the

> notable exception of those more than 50 years old, Homeland Security

> officials said.

>

> The over-50 exemption was created to give states more time to get everyone

> new licenses, and officials say the risk of someone in that age group

> being a terrorist, illegal immigrant or con artist is much less. By 2017,

> even those over 50 must have a REAL ID-compliant card to board a plane.

>

> So far, 17 states have passed legislation or resolutions objecting to the

> REAL ID Act's provisions, many due to concerns it will cost them too much

> to comply. The 17, according to the ACLU, are: Arizona, Colorado, Georgia,

> Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Maine, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New

> Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee and

> Washington state.

>

> Among other details of the REAL ID plan:

>

> The traditional driver's license photograph would be taken at the

> beginning of the application instead of the end so that if someone is

> rejected for failure to prove identity and citizenship, the applicant's

> photo would be kept on file and checked if that person tried to con the

> system again.

>

> The cards will have three layers of security measures but will not contain

> microchips as some had expected. States will be able to choose from a menu

> which security measures they will put in their cards.

>

> Over the next year, the government expects all states to begin checking

> both the Social Security numbers and immigration status of license

> applicants.

>

> Most states already check Social Security numbers and about half check

> immigration status. Some, like New York, Virginia, North Carolina and

> California, have already implemented many of the security measures

> envisioned in REAL ID. In California, for example, officials expect the

> only major change to adopt the first phase would be to take the photograph

> at the beginning of the application process instead of the end.

>

> After the Social Security and immigration status checks become nationwide

> practice, officials plan to move on to more expansive security checks,

> including state DMV offices checking with the State Department to verify

> those applicants who use passports to get a driver's license, verifying

> birth certificates and checking with other states to ensure an applicant

> doesn't have more than one license.

>

> A few states have already signed written agreements indicating they plan

> to comply with REAL ID. Seventeen others, though, have passed legislation

> or resolutions objecting to it, often because of concerns about the cost

> of the extra security.

>

>

>

Get Russian Passports and IDs, or some other Communist Country, they give

you the freedom to go anywhere in the US!

Attention all C.A.L.M. members! Betty Crocker devil's food cake!

Empty all offline Computers that could be twisted to make you look

anti-Government!

In service of God and Country

Joseph

<NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org> wrote in message

news:1200078857.54670155.3757159413@servebbs.org...

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

> Hash: SHA1

>

> Preventing Genocide: Vietnamese Agent Orange Lawsuit & Yale Neocon

>

> Via NY Transfer News Collective All the News that Doesn't Fit

>

> sent by Francis Boyle - Jan 10, 2008

>

> [This is a sick joke. Yale Law School's resident Neo-Con Mike Reisman

> is currently working for the US Chemical Companies against innocent

> Vietnamese civilians who were the victims of Agent Orange during the

> genocidal US War against Vietnam in their lawsuit pending in the

> Second Circuit. fab. ]

>

>

>

> Case Western Reserve University School of Law

> Frederick K. Cox International Law Center

>

> presents the Klatsky Seminar in Human Rights

>

> Myres S. McDougal Professor of International Law, Yale University

>

> "Before Victims Become Victims:

> Preventing Genocide & Mass Murder"

>

>

> Since World War II, the world has taken an ex-post punishment

> approach toward genocide and mass killing, instead of an ex ante

> effective policy of prevention Prof. Reisman will examine contemporary

> case studies, including Darfur and Burma, and ask how international law

> and international institutions can be used to identify situations ripe

> for genocide and intervene at an early stage before they devolve into

> mass atrocities?

>

> Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 4:30 - 5:30 pm

> Free & open to the public

> School of Law Moot Courtroom (A59)

>

> Free and open to all (One Free hour of CLE credit will be available to

> lawyers who attend)

>

> Reception following lecture

>

> Webcast LIVE at http://law.case.edu/lectures

>

> A world renowned expert in international law, W. Michael Reisman is

> author of 18 books. He has been president of the Inter-American

> Commission on Human Rights, president of the Arbitration Tribunal of

> the Bank for International Settlements, and a member of the

> Erittrea-Ethiopia Boundary Commission.

>

> Past Klatsky lecturers include: Pulitzer-Prize-winning author and human

> rights advocate Samantha Power; former Chief Prosecutor of the

> Yugoslavia War Crimes Tribunal Richard Goldstone; and Executive

> Director of Human Rights Watch Kenneth Roth.

>

> For more information: visit http://law.case.edu/lectures

> <blocked::http://law.case.edu/lectures> or call 216-368-3304

>

>

> =================================================================

> NY Transfer News Collective A Service of Blythe Systems

> Since 1985 - Information for the Rest of Us

> Our main website: http://www.blythe.org

> List Archives: http://blythe-systems.com/pipermail/nytr/

> Subscribe: http://blythe-systems.com/mailman/listinfo/nytr

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>

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> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD)

>

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> ywpMiWfgjrARUq9u4KkvMiQ=

> =rjpw

> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

>

It is all part of the Communist takeover plot!

"Joseph R Loegering" <JosephLoegering@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:9pqdnbX6QoL4IxranZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@comcast.com...

>

> "DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message

> news:f1ffo39ltp6jjog1kh0bssv1fvhspihklr@4ax.com...

>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:44:30 -0800, "Joseph R Loegering"

>> <JosephLoegering@comcast.net> wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>"DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message

>>>news:t8dfo3hgvrsc6h8p5ei6csghccthj74t10@4ax.com...

>>>> Wacko tin foil hat favorite Ron Paul's candidacy will be over very

>>>> shortly. His racist/segregationist rants, published for years in "Ron

>>>> Paul" newsletters, are being vetted now in CNN, and his Texas KKK

>>>> connection will shortly follow nationwide within the next week.

>>>>

>>>> It's the meltdown of the tin foil hats! Beware...these deluded

>>>> followers of Paul could be dangerous now...approach with caution!

>>>

>>>It was a trap to put anyone who believes what little truth Paul spoke, on

>>>an

>>>extermination list. It a Communist takeover plot! <snip>

>>

>> Whoa, better get that tin foil hat off your head...it has baked your

>> brain like a potato!

>

> We have been tracking annd recording what is going on from the beginning!

> We got you!

>

> In service of God and Country

>

> Joseph

>

No wonder why you let US Corporations like CNN hack our Computers, and send

our personal Histoy, our Military, Criminal, and Medical Records to Russia

and Communist China, and the FBI will do nothing about this threat to Life

and Liberty!

CNN helped set up the American People for an extermination list!

On the Internet here is the trap laid out!

DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message

news:t8dfo3hgvrsc6h8p5ei6csghccthj74t10@4ax.com...> Wacko tin foil hat

favorite Ron Paul's candidacy will be over very

> shortly. His racist/segregationist rants, published for years in "Ron

> Paul" newsletters, are being vetted now in CNN, and his Texas KKK

> connection will shortly follow nationwide within the next week.

>

> It's the meltdown of the tin foil hats! Beware...these deluded

> followers of Paul could be dangerous now...approach with caution!

It was a trap to put anyone who believes what little truth Paul spoke, on an

extermination list. It a Communist takeover plot!

They deliberately let Paul speak a lot of truth, knowing his past, so that

they could use his past as an excuse to wipe out any truth he spoke. That is

the problem with a lot of people in the public, they cannot glean out and

save the truth, and throw away the garbage, they destroy the truth and bring

in radio active garbage!

US sponsored weight loss program. Use Urban Sprawl and Biofuels to gobble up

Tillable Farmland, when they get hungry enough, they will loose weight!

We lost our Rights because of Government and Criminals!

Having been injured in the US Army in 1980- 1982, while running in a PT

Formation on Ft Drum New York, as a race riot broke out and I was hit in the

head with a Rock that squashed my eyes and caused a Stroke and PSTD, and

five US Army Doctors declared I would be permanently blind, but I got most

of my sight back, but because it fluctuates in and out depending on the air

pressure outside, and migraine headaches, and multiple complex seizure

disorder also caused by the head trauma, and every year as I get older it

gets worse, and I cannot safely drive. If I buy a car and have someone else

drive it for me, when they steal it, the Police say that I can do nothing

about it, because I gave them the keys. When I buy a bike, I end up with

unpaid hospital bills, where I misjudged the road, and or my Bike gets

stolen and sold as scrap metal.

I have no where to live, except slums filled with criminals, and no local

Government that herds the criminals into the slums, to keep them out of

richer zones, will let you arm to defend yourself against the criminals,

because they don't want you to run the criminals out of the slums, back into

the rich zones.

At the same time I was outed as a CID informant, and was being hunted by

Foreign Agents and Domestic Criminals, I was kidnapped by Terrorists outside

Ft. Riley Kansas, whom were Armed with stolen US Weapons. Though I know who

outed me, who they had hunting me I still do not know, and I am not allowed

to arm to defend myself, because I was set up by Criminals who were using

the Government Systems against me.

Our loss of all rights, who is at fault?

Our rights began to become eroded the most on Federal, State, and Local

Levels of Government, because of the repeated Wars on Drugs, Prostitution,

and Pornography, and for getting People so called Medical help. They

designed the Laws to make it easier to catch Drug Traffickers, Drug Addicts,

Pimps, and Prostitutes, Pornographers, and force them to go to Doctors

against their will, but the Laws set up for that, are now too often used to

classify innocent people as Suspects, so that they can violate their

fundamental Rights, and force them to get Medical Treatment that causes them

harm and financial ruin because one way another, you are forced to pay for

expensive Medical Procedures that did you no good. The first of which

fundamental Right violated is the right of Liberty, and then the right to

choose which Doctor or Medical Treatment Plan to refuse, in preference of

one that works for you. They force harmful Mind Control Drug Treatment upon

you, even if you are innocent, and have not committed any crime, nor intend

on committing any crime. Their so called Professionals falsely claim that

they know who will commit a crime, ahead of time, before they commit it, and

they say that their forced treatment, is to prevent a crime from happening!

But the majority of people who commit suicide or murder suicide took their

Drugs, and the unnatural chemical imbalance caused by the Drugs, is the

primary reason that they committed suicide! And all it takes to get this

forced harmful Drug Treatment, at Tax Payer and Insurance Company Expense,

is an accusation from a Fundamentalist, or Political Rival, or a Corporation

like CNN, and your life is systematically destroyed by the System that they

set up over us, for your so call health and benefit. The only ones it

benefits and the Corporations that set the system up!

Welcome to Fascist Nazi Germany and to the Communist Soviet Union combined,

called America! Some of the non-religious are as dangerous as the

Fundamentalists.

One cannot regulate Morality, and force it upon others without a backlash.

The Criminals use the same Laws set up against them, to set up innocent

people. Like in Prohibition the only way to prevent innocent people from

getting caught in the crossfire, and keep the Drug and Prostitution out of

the hands of Warlords and Human Traffickers, is to legalize both Drugs and

Prostitution, and move it into an area where our children will not see it

everyday like they do now!

These Christian Fundamentalist are as dangerous as Islamic Fundamentalists.

They form their own standard for judging and condemning people, that has

nothing to do with God or morality!

Women are the most highly thought of by God, but are despised by

Fundamentalists. These Fundamentalists take allegory from scriptures and

throw away the true meaning, and twist it to try to support their

unjustifiable attitudes and actions towards women.

There are good men, and bad men, good women, and bad women, and these

Fundamentalists tend to put all women in the category of bad women.

If you want, I will translate the forty virtues from Hebrew Proverbs, that

portray the qualities of a Virtuous Women. She is portrayed as Capitalist,

that is a humanitarian, and a guide to both the Harem and all her husbands

children. But most of these Fundamentalists would stone her for wanting to

be a member of an Harem! And many of these Fundamentalists would abuse women

in a Harem, because they are bad people! The same is true with non-religious

people, you have some kind and tolerant, and some cruel and intolerant.

The cruel and intolerant are called Bigots and Tyrants, whether they

religious or non-religious.

They think that I want to form a GREEN business, because I want to build

Windmills for pumping Water, and Making Electricity, and saving Farmland,

but those with a GREEN agenda are out to destroy the very things that we

need to survive, our Tillable Farmland and our Economy by causing Inflation

paying for useless GREEN TECHNOLOGY. What I am trying to do, is cut the

Cost of Living that keeps going up because of Biofuels and Urban Sprawl,

taking away more of our Tillable Farmland, and Bank Interest and Taxes that

are causing Inflation to rise out of control! My sister even bought Cows

from another State, because they did not have enough grain to feed them,

because the fields are being used to make Biofuels instead of Food for Man

and Beast!

They think that in order to survive, we must go to a Bank and borrow money

and pay Interests to but a home or a business. They think that in order to

survive, we must go to a Bank and borrow money and pay Interests while

causing Inflation to rise so high that we cannot afford land, a business, a

home, food, clothing, a car, or proper healthcare that actually works!

Fools, it is these Banks and Politicians and Corporations that they own,

calling all the shots! It is an invisible 666 inside their forehead or hand,

so that only those that they approve of, can buy and sell, while the rest

starve to death, as they deceive the whole world, and command fire to fall

from heaven in the sight of all men. They finance and or supply both sides

in every conflict, so that they can make money off both sides, and they

deliberately stir them up one against another, to get rid of whoever they

don't want to live in their New World Order.

And what is worse, they destroyed the Family structures passed to us since

the days of Abraham, that we use to lived by, but they destroyed so that

they can take our Children, so that they can be so called Educated by them,

and or force their so called Education on them in our Schools, to try to

make them just like them.

http://www.josephsbusiness.com

In service of God and Country

Joseph

Jim999 <iwantnomail@nowhere.com> wrote in alt.politics.bush:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

>>January 11, 2008

>>

>>17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>

> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

I think it's the security requirement that a GPS device be inserted into

and kept in the rectum while out of country.

Which is probably why all you Larry Craig right wingers like the new

security requirement.

"timeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message

news:6rWdnWsvmZT4fBranZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@comcast.com...

> Jim999 wrote:

>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>

>>> January 11, 2008

>>>

>>> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>>

>> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>

> Why does the NRA opposes gun registration?

Because all records are sent to Russia and Communist China whom are

overthrowing us from within. Now that the secret files in the Pentagon and

the White House fell into the wrong hands they are trying to blame the

betrayal on Chinese Hackers. It was deliberately done by people controlling

CNN and other News Media!

Just like the race riot that was deliberately stirred up by some, when I was

stoned with a big rock while on FT Drum New York, their innocent Political

Rivals will get clobbered in any race riot that breaks out, and they will

blame it on the race riot, but will not mention that they deliberately

stirred up the riot!

Told ya before, Israel gets all their Oil and Nuke support from Russia, whom

supports Iran against Saudi Arabia, we are fighting Russia's Wars, they took

control of both US Political Parties by taking over Israel from within, that

Red, White, and Blue that they wear stands for Russia! They allied with

China in the Shanghai Six, which now includes Iran!

Attention all C.A.L.M. members! Betty Crocker devil's food cake!

Empty all offline Computers that could be twisted to make you look

anti-Government!

In service of God and Country

Joseph

<NY.Transfer.News@blythe.org> wrote in message

news:1200078857.54670155.3757159413@servebbs.org...

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

> Hash: SHA1

>

> Preventing Genocide: Vietnamese Agent Orange Lawsuit & Yale Neocon

>

> Via NY Transfer News Collective All the News that Doesn't Fit

>

> sent by Francis Boyle - Jan 10, 2008

>

> [This is a sick joke. Yale Law School's resident Neo-Con Mike Reisman

> is currently working for the US Chemical Companies against innocent

> Vietnamese civilians who were the victims of Agent Orange during the

> genocidal US War against Vietnam in their lawsuit pending in the

> Second Circuit. fab. ]

>

>

>

> Case Western Reserve University School of Law

> Frederick K. Cox International Law Center

>

> presents the Klatsky Seminar in Human Rights

>

> Myres S. McDougal Professor of International Law, Yale University

>

> "Before Victims Become Victims:

> Preventing Genocide & Mass Murder"

>

>

> Since World War II, the world has taken an ex-post punishment

> approach toward genocide and mass killing, instead of an ex ante

> effective policy of prevention Prof. Reisman will examine contemporary

> case studies, including Darfur and Burma, and ask how international law

> and international institutions can be used to identify situations ripe

> for genocide and intervene at an early stage before they devolve into

> mass atrocities?

>

> Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 4:30 - 5:30 pm

> Free & open to the public

> School of Law Moot Courtroom (A59)

>

> Free and open to all (One Free hour of CLE credit will be available to

> lawyers who attend)

>

> Reception following lecture

>

> Webcast LIVE at http://law.case.edu/lectures

>

> A world renowned expert in international law, W. Michael Reisman is

> author of 18 books. He has been president of the Inter-American

> Commission on Human Rights, president of the Arbitration Tribunal of

> the Bank for International Settlements, and a member of the

> Erittrea-Ethiopia Boundary Commission.

>

> Past Klatsky lecturers include: Pulitzer-Prize-winning author and human

> rights advocate Samantha Power; former Chief Prosecutor of the

> Yugoslavia War Crimes Tribunal Richard Goldstone; and Executive

> Director of Human Rights Watch Kenneth Roth.

>

> For more information: visit http://law.case.edu/lectures

> <blocked::http://law.case.edu/lectures> or call 216-368-3304

>

>

> =================================================================

> NY Transfer News Collective A Service of Blythe Systems

> Since 1985 - Information for the Rest of Us

> Our main website: http://www.blythe.org

> List Archives: http://blythe-systems.com/pipermail/nytr/

> Subscribe: http://blythe-systems.com/mailman/listinfo/nytr

> =================================================================

>

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD)

>

> iD8DBQFHh8AJiz2i76ou9wQRAoaKAKCDO3KgYiWypOsqHsXzwVw/Eoif1wCeKZqA

> ywpMiWfgjrARUq9u4KkvMiQ=

> =rjpw

> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

>

It is all part of the Communist takeover plot!

"Joseph R Loegering" <JosephLoegering@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:9pqdnbX6QoL4IxranZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@comcast.com...

>

> "DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message

> news:f1ffo39ltp6jjog1kh0bssv1fvhspihklr@4ax.com...

>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:44:30 -0800, "Joseph R Loegering"

>> <JosephLoegering@comcast.net> wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>"DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message

>>>news:t8dfo3hgvrsc6h8p5ei6csghccthj74t10@4ax.com...

>>>> Wacko tin foil hat favorite Ron Paul's candidacy will be over very

>>>> shortly. His racist/segregationist rants, published for years in "Ron

>>>> Paul" newsletters, are being vetted now in CNN, and his Texas KKK

>>>> connection will shortly follow nationwide within the next week.

>>>>

>>>> It's the meltdown of the tin foil hats! Beware...these deluded

>>>> followers of Paul could be dangerous now...approach with caution!

>>>

>>>It was a trap to put anyone who believes what little truth Paul spoke, on

>>>an

>>>extermination list. It a Communist takeover plot! <snip>

>>

>> Whoa, better get that tin foil hat off your head...it has baked your

>> brain like a potato!

>

> We have been tracking annd recording what is going on from the beginning!

> We got you!

>

> In service of God and Country

>

> Joseph

>

No wonder why you let US Corporations like CNN hack our Computers, and send

our personal Histoy, our Military, Criminal, and Medical Records to Russia

and Communist China, and the FBI will do nothing about this threat to Life

and Liberty!

CNN helped set up the American People for an extermination list!

On the Internet here is the trap laid out!

DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message

news:t8dfo3hgvrsc6h8p5ei6csghccthj74t10@4ax.com...> Wacko tin foil hat

favorite Ron Paul's candidacy will be over very

> shortly. His racist/segregationist rants, published for years in "Ron

> Paul" newsletters, are being vetted now in CNN, and his Texas KKK

> connection will shortly follow nationwide within the next week.

>

> It's the meltdown of the tin foil hats! Beware...these deluded

> followers of Paul could be dangerous now...approach with caution!

It was a trap to put anyone who believes what little truth Paul spoke, on an

extermination list. It a Communist takeover plot!

They deliberately let Paul speak a lot of truth, knowing his past, so that

they could use his past as an excuse to wipe out any truth he spoke. That is

the problem with a lot of people in the public, they cannot glean out and

save the truth, and throw away the garbage, they destroy the truth and bring

in radio active garbage!

US sponsored weight loss program. Use Urban Sprawl and Biofuels to gobble up

Tillable Farmland, when they get hungry enough, they will loose weight!

We lost our Rights because of Government and Criminals!

Having been injured in the US Army in 1980- 1982, while running in a PT

Formation on Ft Drum New York, as a race riot broke out and I was hit in the

head with a Rock that squashed my eyes and caused a Stroke and PSTD, and

five US Army Doctors declared I would be permanently blind, but I got most

of my sight back, but because it fluctuates in and out depending on the air

pressure outside, and migraine headaches, and multiple complex seizure

disorder also caused by the head trauma, and every year as I get older it

gets worse, and I cannot safely drive. If I buy a car and have someone else

drive it for me, when they steal it, the Police say that I can do nothing

about it, because I gave them the keys. When I buy a bike, I end up with

unpaid hospital bills, where I misjudged the road, and or my Bike gets

stolen and sold as scrap metal.

I have no where to live, except slums filled with criminals, and no local

Government that herds the criminals into the slums, to keep them out of

richer zones, will let you arm to defend yourself against the criminals,

because they don't want you to run the criminals out of the slums, back into

the rich zones.

At the same time I was outed as a CID informant, and was being hunted by

Foreign Agents and Domestic Criminals, I was kidnapped by Terrorists outside

Ft. Riley Kansas, whom were Armed with stolen US Weapons. Though I know who

outed me, who they had hunting me I still do not know, and I am not allowed

to arm to defend myself, because I was set up by Criminals who were using

the Government Systems against me.

Our loss of all rights, who is at fault?

Our rights began to become eroded the most on Federal, State, and Local

Levels of Government, because of the repeated Wars on Drugs, Prostitution,

and Pornography, and for getting People so called Medical help. They

designed the Laws to make it easier to catch Drug Traffickers, Drug Addicts,

Pimps, and Prostitutes, Pornographers, and force them to go to Doctors

against their will, but the Laws set up for that, are now too often used to

classify innocent people as Suspects, so that they can violate their

fundamental Rights, and force them to get Medical Treatment that causes them

harm and financial ruin because one way another, you are forced to pay for

expensive Medical Procedures that did you no good. The first of which

fundamental Right violated is the right of Liberty, and then the right to

choose which Doctor or Medical Treatment Plan to refuse, in preference of

one that works for you. They force harmful Mind Control Drug Treatment upon

you, even if you are innocent, and have not committed any crime, nor intend

on committing any crime. Their so called Professionals falsely claim that

they know who will commit a crime, ahead of time, before they commit it, and

they say that their forced treatment, is to prevent a crime from happening!

But the majority of people who commit suicide or murder suicide took their

Drugs, and the unnatural chemical imbalance caused by the Drugs, is the

primary reason that they committed suicide! And all it takes to get this

forced harmful Drug Treatment, at Tax Payer and Insurance Company Expense,

is an accusation from a Fundamentalist, or Political Rival, or a Corporation

like CNN, and your life is systematically destroyed by the System that they

set up over us, for your so call health and benefit. The only ones it

benefits and the Corporations that set the system up!

Welcome to Fascist Nazi Germany and to the Communist Soviet Union combined,

called America! Some of the non-religious are as dangerous as the

Fundamentalists.

One cannot regulate Morality, and force it upon others without a backlash.

The Criminals use the same Laws set up against them, to set up innocent

people. Like in Prohibition the only way to prevent innocent people from

getting caught in the crossfire, and keep the Drug and Prostitution out of

the hands of Warlords and Human Traffickers, is to legalize both Drugs and

Prostitution, and move it into an area where our children will not see it

everyday like they do now!

These Christian Fundamentalist are as dangerous as Islamic Fundamentalists.

They form their own standard for judging and condemning people, that has

nothing to do with God or morality!

Women are the most highly thought of by God, but are despised by

Fundamentalists. These Fundamentalists take allegory from scriptures and

throw away the true meaning, and twist it to try to support their

unjustifiable attitudes and actions towards women.

There are good men, and bad men, good women, and bad women, and these

Fundamentalists tend to put all women in the category of bad women.

If you want, I will translate the forty virtues from Hebrew Proverbs, that

portray the qualities of a Virtuous Women. She is portrayed as Capitalist,

that is a humanitarian, and a guide to both the Harem and all her husbands

children. But most of these Fundamentalists would stone her for wanting to

be a member of an Harem! And many of these Fundamentalists would abuse women

in a Harem, because they are bad people! The same is true with non-religious

people, you have some kind and tolerant, and some cruel and intolerant.

The cruel and intolerant are called Bigots and Tyrants, whether they

religious or non-religious.

They think that I want to form a GREEN business, because I want to build

Windmills for pumping Water, and Making Electricity, and saving Farmland,

but those with a GREEN agenda are out to destroy the very things that we

need to survive, our Tillable Farmland and our Economy by causing Inflation

paying for useless GREEN TECHNOLOGY. What I am trying to do, is cut the

Cost of Living that keeps going up because of Biofuels and Urban Sprawl,

taking away more of our Tillable Farmland, and Bank Interest and Taxes that

are causing Inflation to rise out of control! My sister even bought Cows

from another State, because they did not have enough grain to feed them,

because the fields are being used to make Biofuels instead of Food for Man

and Beast!

They think that in order to survive, we must go to a Bank and borrow money

and pay Interests to but a home or a business. They think that in order to

survive, we must go to a Bank and borrow money and pay Interests while

causing Inflation to rise so high that we cannot afford land, a business, a

home, food, clothing, a car, or proper healthcare that actually works!

Fools, it is these Banks and Politicians and Corporations that they own,

calling all the shots! It is an invisible 666 inside their forehead or hand,

so that only those that they approve of, can buy and sell, while the rest

starve to death, as they deceive the whole world, and command fire to fall

from heaven in the sight of all men. They finance and or supply both sides

in every conflict, so that they can make money off both sides, and they

deliberately stir them up one against another, to get rid of whoever they

don't want to live in their New World Order.

And what is worse, they destroyed the Family structures passed to us since

the days of Abraham, that we use to lived by, but they destroyed so that

they can take our Children, so that they can be so called Educated by them,

and or force their so called Education on them in our Schools, to try to

make them just like them.

http://www.josephsbusiness.com

In service of God and Country

Joseph

Jim999 wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

>> January 11, 2008

>>

>> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>

> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

Liberals don't oppose

it, Republicans and

especially Libertarians

oppose a National Passport

It's a National internal passport.

Everyone gets one sooner or later.

Just another victory for Osama bin Laden

and the fear driven Republican administration

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, what about those who do not drive? And as the

> article points out, what is to prevent a terrorist from getting a

> drivers license?

>

> "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

> news:JGPhj.38621$k27.4026@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

>> January 11, 2008

>>

>> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>

>> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

>>

>> Filed at 2:27 p.m. ET

>>

>> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Residents of at least 17 states are suddenly

>> stuck in the middle of a fight between the Bush administration and

>> state governments over post-Sept. 11 security rules for driver's

>> licenses -- a dispute that, by May, could leave millions of people

>> unable to use their licenses to board planes or enter federal

>> buildings. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who was

>> unveiling final

>> details of the REAL ID Act's rules on Friday, said that if states

>> want their licenses to remain valid for air travel after May 2008,

>> those states must seek a waiver indicating they want more time to

>> comply with the legislation.

>>

>> Chertoff, as he revealed final details of the REAL ID Act, said that

>> in instances where a particular state doesn't seek a waiver, its

>> residents will have to use a passport or a newly created federal

>> passport card if they want to avoid a vigorous secondary screening

>> at airport security. ''The last thing I want to do is punish citizens of

>> a state who

>> would love to have a REAL ID license but can't get one,'' Chertoff

>> said. ''But in the end, the rule is the rule as passed by Congress.''

>>

>> Chertoff spoke as he discussed the details of the administration's

>> plan to improve security for driver's licenses in all 50 states --

>> an effort delayed due to opposition from states worried about the

>> cost and civil libertarians upset about what they believe are

>> invasions of privacy. Under the rules announced Friday, Americans born

>> after Dec. 1, 1964,

>> will have to get more secure driver's licenses in the next six years.

>>

>> The Homeland Security Department has spent years crafting the final

>> regulations for the REAL ID Act, a law designed to make it harder for

>> terrorists, illegal immigrants and con artists to get

>> government-issued identification. The effort once envisioned to take

>> effect in 2008 has been pushed back in the hopes of winning over

>> skeptical state officials. To address some of those concerns, the

>> government now plans to phase

>> in a secure ID initiative that Congress approved in 2005. Now, DHS

>> plans a key deadline in 2011 -- when federal authorities hope all

>> states will be in compliance -- and then further measures to be

>> enacted three years later. To make the plan more appealing to

>> cost-conscious states, federal

>> authorities drastically reduced the expected cost from $14.6 billion

>> to $3.9 billion, a 73 percent decline, said Homeland Security

>> officials familiar with the plan.

>>

>> The American Civil Liberties Union has fiercely objected to the

>> effort, particularly the sharing of personal data among government

>> agencies. The DHS and other officials say the only way to ensure an

>> ID is safe is to check it against secure government data; critics

>> such as the ACLU say that creates a system that is more likely to be

>> infiltrated and have its personal data pilfered.

>>

>> In its written objection to the law, the ACLU claims REAL ID amounts

>> to the ''first-ever national identity card system,'' which ''would

>> irreparably damage the fabric of American life.''

>>

>> The Sept. 11 attacks were the main motivation for the changes.

>>

>> The hijacker-pilot who flew into the Pentagon, Hani Hanjour, had four

>> driver's licenses and ID cards from three states. The DHS, created in

>> response to the attacks, has created a slogan for REAL ID: ''One

>> driver, one license.''

>>

>> By 2014, anyone seeking to board an airplane or enter a federal

>> building would have to present a REAL ID-compliant driver's license,

>> with the notable exception of those more than 50 years old, Homeland

>> Security officials said.

>>

>> The over-50 exemption was created to give states more time to get

>> everyone new licenses, and officials say the risk of someone in that

>> age group being a terrorist, illegal immigrant or con artist is much

>> less. By 2017, even those over 50 must have a REAL ID-compliant card

>> to board a plane. So far, 17 states have passed legislation or

>> resolutions objecting

>> to the REAL ID Act's provisions, many due to concerns it will cost

>> them too much to comply. The 17, according to the ACLU, are:

>> Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Maine,

>> Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota,

>> Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee and Washington state.

>>

>> Among other details of the REAL ID plan:

>>

>> The traditional driver's license photograph would be taken at the

>> beginning of the application instead of the end so that if someone is

>> rejected for failure to prove identity and citizenship, the

>> applicant's photo would be kept on file and checked if that person

>> tried to con the system again.

>>

>> The cards will have three layers of security measures but will not

>> contain microchips as some had expected. States will be able to

>> choose from a menu which security measures they will put in their

>> cards. Over the next year, the government expects all states to begin

>> checking both the Social Security numbers and immigration status of

>> license applicants.

>>

>> Most states already check Social Security numbers and about half

>> check immigration status. Some, like New York, Virginia, North

>> Carolina and California, have already implemented many of the

>> security measures envisioned in REAL ID. In California, for example,

>> officials expect the only major change to adopt the first phase

>> would be to take the photograph at the beginning of the application

>> process instead of the end. After the Social Security and immigration

>> status checks become

>> nationwide practice, officials plan to move on to more expansive

>> security checks, including state DMV offices checking with the State

>> Department to verify those applicants who use passports to get a

>> driver's license, verifying birth certificates and checking with

>> other states to ensure an applicant doesn't have more than one

>> license. A few states have already signed written agreements indicating

>> they

>> plan to comply with REAL ID. Seventeen others, though, have passed

>> legislation or resolutions objecting to it, often because of

>> concerns about the cost of the extra security.

It's machine readable.

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> One more thought. Say you are catching a plane from Virginia. How

> will the screeners know that the drivers license you show them from

> say Hawaii, is an authentic drivers license?

>

> "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

> news:JGPhj.38621$k27.4026@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

>> January 11, 2008

>>

>> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>

>> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

>>

>> Filed at 2:27 p.m. ET

>>

>> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Residents of at least 17 states are suddenly

>> stuck in the middle of a fight between the Bush administration and

>> state governments over post-Sept. 11 security rules for driver's

>> licenses -- a dispute that, by May, could leave millions of people

>> unable to use their licenses to board planes or enter federal

>> buildings. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who was

>> unveiling final

>> details of the REAL ID Act's rules on Friday, said that if states

>> want their licenses to remain valid for air travel after May 2008,

>> those states must seek a waiver indicating they want more time to

>> comply with the legislation.

>>

>> Chertoff, as he revealed final details of the REAL ID Act, said that

>> in instances where a particular state doesn't seek a waiver, its

>> residents will have to use a passport or a newly created federal

>> passport card if they want to avoid a vigorous secondary screening

>> at airport security. ''The last thing I want to do is punish citizens of

>> a state who

>> would love to have a REAL ID license but can't get one,'' Chertoff

>> said. ''But in the end, the rule is the rule as passed by Congress.''

>>

>> Chertoff spoke as he discussed the details of the administration's

>> plan to improve security for driver's licenses in all 50 states --

>> an effort delayed due to opposition from states worried about the

>> cost and civil libertarians upset about what they believe are

>> invasions of privacy. Under the rules announced Friday, Americans born

>> after Dec. 1, 1964,

>> will have to get more secure driver's licenses in the next six years.

>>

>> The Homeland Security Department has spent years crafting the final

>> regulations for the REAL ID Act, a law designed to make it harder for

>> terrorists, illegal immigrants and con artists to get

>> government-issued identification. The effort once envisioned to take

>> effect in 2008 has been pushed back in the hopes of winning over

>> skeptical state officials. To address some of those concerns, the

>> government now plans to phase

>> in a secure ID initiative that Congress approved in 2005. Now, DHS

>> plans a key deadline in 2011 -- when federal authorities hope all

>> states will be in compliance -- and then further measures to be

>> enacted three years later. To make the plan more appealing to

>> cost-conscious states, federal

>> authorities drastically reduced the expected cost from $14.6 billion

>> to $3.9 billion, a 73 percent decline, said Homeland Security

>> officials familiar with the plan.

>>

>> The American Civil Liberties Union has fiercely objected to the

>> effort, particularly the sharing of personal data among government

>> agencies. The DHS and other officials say the only way to ensure an

>> ID is safe is to check it against secure government data; critics

>> such as the ACLU say that creates a system that is more likely to be

>> infiltrated and have its personal data pilfered.

>>

>> In its written objection to the law, the ACLU claims REAL ID amounts

>> to the ''first-ever national identity card system,'' which ''would

>> irreparably damage the fabric of American life.''

>>

>> The Sept. 11 attacks were the main motivation for the changes.

>>

>> The hijacker-pilot who flew into the Pentagon, Hani Hanjour, had four

>> driver's licenses and ID cards from three states. The DHS, created in

>> response to the attacks, has created a slogan for REAL ID: ''One

>> driver, one license.''

>>

>> By 2014, anyone seeking to board an airplane or enter a federal

>> building would have to present a REAL ID-compliant driver's license,

>> with the notable exception of those more than 50 years old, Homeland

>> Security officials said.

>>

>> The over-50 exemption was created to give states more time to get

>> everyone new licenses, and officials say the risk of someone in that

>> age group being a terrorist, illegal immigrant or con artist is much

>> less. By 2017, even those over 50 must have a REAL ID-compliant card

>> to board a plane. So far, 17 states have passed legislation or

>> resolutions objecting

>> to the REAL ID Act's provisions, many due to concerns it will cost

>> them too much to comply. The 17, according to the ACLU, are:

>> Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Maine,

>> Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota,

>> Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee and Washington state.

>>

>> Among other details of the REAL ID plan:

>>

>> The traditional driver's license photograph would be taken at the

>> beginning of the application instead of the end so that if someone is

>> rejected for failure to prove identity and citizenship, the

>> applicant's photo would be kept on file and checked if that person

>> tried to con the system again.

>>

>> The cards will have three layers of security measures but will not

>> contain microchips as some had expected. States will be able to

>> choose from a menu which security measures they will put in their

>> cards. Over the next year, the government expects all states to begin

>> checking both the Social Security numbers and immigration status of

>> license applicants.

>>

>> Most states already check Social Security numbers and about half

>> check immigration status. Some, like New York, Virginia, North

>> Carolina and California, have already implemented many of the

>> security measures envisioned in REAL ID. In California, for example,

>> officials expect the only major change to adopt the first phase

>> would be to take the photograph at the beginning of the application

>> process instead of the end. After the Social Security and immigration

>> status checks become

>> nationwide practice, officials plan to move on to more expansive

>> security checks, including state DMV offices checking with the State

>> Department to verify those applicants who use passports to get a

>> driver's license, verifying birth certificates and checking with

>> other states to ensure an applicant doesn't have more than one

>> license. A few states have already signed written agreements indicating

>> they

>> plan to comply with REAL ID. Seventeen others, though, have passed

>> legislation or resolutions objecting to it, often because of

>> concerns about the cost of the extra security.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:36:33 -0700, timeOday

<timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

>Jim999 wrote:

>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>

>>> January 11, 2008

>>>

>>> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>>

>> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>

>Why does the NRA opposes gun registration?

I dunno. Start your own thread if you like.

Meanwhile, why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:52:26 -0800, Salad <oil@vinegar.com> wrote:

>Jim999 wrote:

>

>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>

>>

>>>January 11, 2008

>>>

>>>17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>>

>>

>> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>

>I don't want to be a bean.

You already are, if you have a SSAN. So why not make it

secure? You like identity theft?

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:28:20 GMT, "Winston Smith, American Patriot"

<FranzKafka@Oceania.WhiteHouse.GOV> wrote:

>Jim999 <iwantnomail@nowhere.com> wrote in alt.politics.bush:

>

>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>

>>>January 11, 2008

>>>

>>>17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>>

>> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>

>I think it's the security requirement that a GPS device be inserted into

>and kept in the rectum while out of country.

You'd like it if you got taken by those chaps that like to cut

people's heads off.

>Which is probably why all you Larry Craig right wingers like the new

>security requirement.

Who is Larry Craig? I don't feel like googling it.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:23:00 -0500, "Sid9"

<sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Jim999 wrote:

>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>

>>> January 11, 2008

>>>

>>> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>>

>> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>

>Liberals don't oppose

>it, Republicans and

>especially Libertarians

>oppose a National Passport

>

Why?

Jim999 wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:23:00 -0500, "Sid9"

> <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

>> Jim999 wrote:

>>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net>

>>> wrote:

>>>

>>>> January 11, 2008

>>>>

>>>> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>>>

>>> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>>

>> Liberals don't oppose

>> it, Republicans and

>> especially Libertarians

>> oppose a National Passport

>>

> Why?

Ask a Republican or a Libertarian.

Jim999 <iwantnomail@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>January 11, 2008

>>

>>17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>

> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

Why do rightards want a theofascist State?

---

"God's going to give us China. And China will be the largest Christian

nation on the face of the earth. They're going to come to Jesus."

-- Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson, 1/2/08, with his global predictions

after this year's annual conversations with the Christian gods

On Jan 11, 10:56 pm, X...@aol.COM (Friendly Xenu) wrote:

> Jim999 <iwantnom...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> >On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> >>January 11, 2008

>

> >>17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>

> > Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>

> Why do rightards want a theofascist State?

I assure you the state will be far more fascist than Theo if they get

it.

- Rich

On Jan 11, 3:24 pm, Jim999 <iwantnom...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> >January 11, 2008

>

> >17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>

> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

Do you think the founding fathers desired to have a state where every

citizen had to register and be monitored by the state? Do you?

- Rich

On Jan 11, 4:28 pm, jose <josefsop...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Jan 11, 1:52 pm, Salad <o...@vinegar.com> wrote:

>

> > Jim999 wrote:

> > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

> > >>January 11, 2008

>

> > >>17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>

> > > Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>

> > I don't want to be a bean.

>

> If you have a SS number, a driver's license, a bank account,

> credit cards, a loan, submit your tax form to the IRS every

> year, you are already a bean. If none of these apply to you

> you are someone else's bean or your a homeless bean. From

> the first day on our birth certificates until the final day on our

> death certificates we are all beans. Welcome to Beandom.

jose, so that means we should embrace this beandom state and add more

and more bean conditions to out being? Do you want the government

next to embed you with RFID chip and monitor your every move?

Is this the type of country you want to live in?

- Rich

Sid9 wrote:

> Jim999 wrote:

>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:23:00 -0500, "Sid9"

>> <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>

>>> Jim999 wrote:

>>>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net>

>>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> January 11, 2008

>>>>>

>>>>> 17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>>>>

>>>> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>>> Liberals don't oppose

>>> it, Republicans and

>>> especially Libertarians

>>> oppose a National Passport

>>>

>> Why?

>

> Ask a Republican or a Libertarian.

>

>

It's the Republicans who support it. They have given out millions to

Avery-Dennison to test out chips and readers for the Real ID. Readers

embedded in roadways, sidewalks, point-of-sale, and maybe small hovering

robot blimps will be able to read the card from a distance (current

technology, match it with face-recognition software (current technology)

and record ever move you make, every purchase you make, every step you

take, literally (still working on that). Avery has a test facility in an

unmarked building on New York Avenue in Pasadena that does nothing but

research this on our dime.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=42.395+-71.131&ie=UTF8&t=k&om=1&ll=34.165777,-118..088967&spn=0.001957,0.003648&z=18

Yes, that's right, Avery-Dennison: on forefront of paper labels, can

chili, and nightmarish technology for totalitarian regimes.

Jim999 wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:52:26 -0800, Salad <oil@vinegar.com> wrote:

>

>

>>Jim999 wrote:

>>

>>

>>>On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:44:22 -0500, "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>>January 11, 2008

>>>>

>>>>17 States Stuck in License Showdown

>>>>

>>>

>>> Why do liberals oppose secure IDs?

>>

>>I don't want to be a bean.

>

>

> You already are, if you have a SSAN. So why not make it

> secure? You like identity theft?

I don't consider illegal immigrants major passenger groups at the

airport. I doubt the "real id" will make security lines at airports be

any faster or better.

I also know that computers can be used beneficially or for purposes not

stated. I don't trust the government to always be upfront. The purpose

can be changed from what is stated. In this instance, I don't trust the

government.

As one person noted, why isn't the NRA supporting gun registration.