Is Product restration/activation for a hard drive or a computer?

For many years I have used Windows 2000 Pro in my several computers

independently. Starting from Windows XP, Microsoft introduced one copy

per one computer. So when we install Win XP in a computer, a pop up

windows appears for preventing "Piracy". However, I still do not

understand the whole concept of Microsoft's "Product Activation and

Registration". Please educate me in the following.

1. Due to the nature of my work, I need to switch harddrives (different

capacity, different manufacturer, and of course with different programs

installed) connecting to the SAME computer. Sometimes just one drive

connected, in other times two drives (one primary/system drive, another

secondary drive even though it might contain an OS). Under these

circumstances do I need to "register" my Windows XP installation for

each harddrive (there are five drives at the present moment) which is

used with the same computer. In other words, is the

activation/registration for hard drives or for computers?

2. I have an office outside home. Sometimes I need to carry a hard drive

with me so that I can use the data in the drive with a different

computer in the office. In terms of activation/registration does such a

use of a harddrive infringe against Microsoft's policy or agreement?

3. In a certain situation many folks need to clone a harddrive

containing a version of Windows XP, Vista, etc,. In this case is the

cloned harddrive considered to be already registered if used in the same

computer? What about if the drive is used with a diferent computer?

4. I understand that Microsoft continually monitors (via internet

connection) the make-up of a computer with an OS-installed harddrive

which has once been registered. If they detect some hardware changes (I

do not know how they do it), they suspect an illegal use of the OS. What

is the degree of changes that would trigger their suspicion? CPU?

Graphic cards? Memory cards? USB devices? When they determine a

violation, how would they contact us? What action would they take?

Your help will be highly appreciated.

Twayne wrote:<span style="color:blue">

> "Beyond X" <do-not-mail@pop.com> wrote in message

> news:4AD400D2.5060504@pop.com

> <span style="color:green">

>>For many years I have used Windows 2000 Pro in my several computers

>>independently. Starting from Windows XP, Microsoft introduced one copy

>>per one computer. So when we install Win XP in a computer, a pop up

>>windows appears for preventing "Piracy". However, I still do not

>>understand the whole concept of Microsoft's "Product Activation and

>>Registration". Please educate me in the following.

>>1. Due to the nature of my work, I need to switch harddrives

>>(different capacity, different manufacturer, and of course with

>>different programs installed) connecting to the SAME computer.

>>Sometimes just one drive connected, in other times two drives (one

>>primary/system drive, another secondary drive even though it might

>>contain an OS). Under these circumstances do I need to "register" my

>>Windows XP installation for each harddrive (there are five drives at

>>the present moment) which is used with the same computer. In other

>>words, is the activation/registration for hard drives or for

>>computers? 2. I have an office outside home. Sometimes I need to carry

>>a hard

>>drive with me so that I can use the data in the drive with a different

>>computer in the office. In terms of activation/registration does such

>>a use of a harddrive infringe against Microsoft's policy or agreement?

>>3. In a certain situation many folks need to clone a harddrive

>>containing a version of Windows XP, Vista, etc,. In this case is the

>>cloned harddrive considered to be already registered if used in the

>>same computer? What about if the drive is used with a diferent

>>computer? 4. I understand that Microsoft continually monitors (via

>>internet

>>connection) the make-up of a computer with an OS-installed harddrive

>>which has once been registered. If they detect some hardware changes

>>(I do not know how they do it), they suspect an illegal use of the

>>OS. What is the degree of changes that would trigger their suspicion?

>>CPU? Graphic cards? Memory cards? USB devices? When they determine a

>>violation, how would they contact us? What action would they take?

>>

>>Your help will be highly appreciated.</span>

>

>

> JUST a hard drive isn't likely to trigger anything from what I've read

> and experience at repairs. Not sure what might happen if it were done

> multiple times though. At most it would require a short phone call to

> the number given when you do try to activate, IF you're asked to

> activate.</span>

Thanks for your thoughts and information. But I'm still unsure about

what I asked.

If I install the Win XP from the same CD in several harddrives and use

and activate them one at a time with the same computer (I suppose the

activation code file will be the same in each drive), what will happen?

In this situation, we are talking same XP (same product key) and same

computer. Would MS somehow cancel an activation with a drive when a next

drive is activated?

Suppose I acivate one XP in one drive and later transfer the activation

to the other drives (http://netsecurity.about.com/od/windowsxp/ qt/

aaqtwinxp0829.htm), will there be no problem?

If the above is true, then I suppose that cloned harddrives can be used

with the same computer even after the cloned drives are added or removed

some programs afterwards as long as the XP installations are unchanged

and as long as critical hardwares remain unchanged. (When a program is

added or deleted, XP's registry might undergo some changes, however.) Do

you agree?

<span style="color:blue">

>

> Here's my understanding:

> MS doesn't monitor the hardware status of a computer at all times as you

> suggest. It's code in your compter that notices what changes happen and

> whether you need to reactivate it. MS only checks the list sometimes at

> updates or when you go to download something from the site. But it's

> your computer that holds the final information. I don't know how to

> beat it; I've seen a couple of claims to be able to, but ... not from

> reputable sources.

>

> If they did determine a "violation", the only thing you're likely to

> notice is that your computer wont' run windows until you activate again.

> A new motherboard, for instance, is going to trigger an activation

> requirement. But not just changing a disk drive. But a disk drive AND

> memory might, and so on. I don't recall the full details that way, or

> if that list is even accurate to begin with.

>

> Should they discover that you're distributing windows in some manner

> though, that's a different story. Fortunately I have no idea what they

> would do and don't intend to find out<g>. The possibilities all seem to

> include jail or prison time.

>

> HTH,

>

> Twayne`

>

>

> </span>

"Beyond X" <do-not-mail@pop.com> wrote in message

news:4AD400D2.5060504@pop.com<span style="color:blue">

> For many years I have used Windows 2000 Pro in my several computers

> independently. Starting from Windows XP, Microsoft introduced one copy

> per one computer. So when we install Win XP in a computer, a pop up

> windows appears for preventing "Piracy". However, I still do not

> understand the whole concept of Microsoft's "Product Activation and

> Registration". Please educate me in the following.

> 1. Due to the nature of my work, I need to switch harddrives

> (different capacity, different manufacturer, and of course with

> different programs installed) connecting to the SAME computer.

> Sometimes just one drive connected, in other times two drives (one

> primary/system drive, another secondary drive even though it might

> contain an OS). Under these circumstances do I need to "register" my

> Windows XP installation for each harddrive (there are five drives at

> the present moment) which is used with the same computer. In other

> words, is the activation/registration for hard drives or for

> computers? 2. I have an office outside home. Sometimes I need to carry

> a hard

> drive with me so that I can use the data in the drive with a different

> computer in the office. In terms of activation/registration does such

> a use of a harddrive infringe against Microsoft's policy or agreement?

> 3. In a certain situation many folks need to clone a harddrive

> containing a version of Windows XP, Vista, etc,. In this case is the

> cloned harddrive considered to be already registered if used in the

> same computer? What about if the drive is used with a diferent

> computer? 4. I understand that Microsoft continually monitors (via

> internet

> connection) the make-up of a computer with an OS-installed harddrive

> which has once been registered. If they detect some hardware changes

> (I do not know how they do it), they suspect an illegal use of the

> OS. What is the degree of changes that would trigger their suspicion?

> CPU? Graphic cards? Memory cards? USB devices? When they determine a

> violation, how would they contact us? What action would they take?

>

> Your help will be highly appreciated.</span>

JUST a hard drive isn't likely to trigger anything from what I've read

and experience at repairs. Not sure what might happen if it were done

multiple times though. At most it would require a short phone call to

the number given when you do try to activate, IF you're asked to

activate.

Here's my understanding:

MS doesn't monitor the hardware status of a computer at all times as you

suggest. It's code in your compter that notices what changes happen and

whether you need to reactivate it. MS only checks the list sometimes at

updates or when you go to download something from the site. But it's

your computer that holds the final information. I don't know how to

beat it; I've seen a couple of claims to be able to, but ... not from

reputable sources.

If they did determine a "violation", the only thing you're likely to

notice is that your computer wont' run windows until you activate again.

A new motherboard, for instance, is going to trigger an activation

requirement. But not just changing a disk drive. But a disk drive AND

memory might, and so on. I don't recall the full details that way, or

if that list is even accurate to begin with.

Should they discover that you're distributing windows in some manner

though, that's a different story. Fortunately I have no idea what they

would do and don't intend to find out<g>. The possibilities all seem to

include jail or prison time.

HTH,

Twayne`

Beyond X wrote:

<span style="color:blue">

> Thanks for your thoughts and information. But I'm still unsure about

> what I asked.

>

> If I install the Win XP from the same CD in several harddrives and use

> and activate them one at a time with the same computer (I suppose the

> activation code file will be the same in each drive), what will happen?

> In this situation, we are talking same XP (same product key) and same

> computer. Would MS somehow cancel an activation with a drive when a next

> drive is activated?

>

> Suppose I acivate one XP in one drive and later transfer the activation

> to the other drives (http://netsecurity.about.com/od/windowsxp/ qt/

> aaqtwinxp0829.htm), will there be no problem?

>

> If the above is true, then I suppose that cloned harddrives can be used

> with the same computer even after the cloned drives are added or removed

> some programs afterwards as long as the XP installations are unchanged

> and as long as critical hardwares remain unchanged. (When a program is

> added or deleted, XP's registry might undergo some changes, however.) Do

> you agree?

> </span>

http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.htm

"The WPA system checks ten categories of hardware:

1. Display Adapter

2. SCSI Adapter

3. IDE Adapter (effectively the motherboard)

4. Network Adapter (NIC) and its MAC Address

5. RAM Amount Range (i.e., 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc.)

6. Processor Type

7. Processor Serial Number

8. Hard Drive Device

9. Hard Drive Volume Serial Number (VSN)

10. CD-ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM"

Your cloned hard drive, will differ in two ways from the original.

Items #8 and #9.

The hard drive itself has an internal serial number, and that is #8.

The clone hard drive will have a different internal serial number.

The VolumeID is something assigned to each partition. It is a 32 bit

quantity, and I can see the values for my partitions using the free version

of Everest. If you clone a drive, the software should be assigning a

different VolumeID, because it wouldn't really be a volume ID if

all the volumes had the same value. And that means, if you have a

clone present in your system, and didn't want #9 to count against

you, you'd want to change it with the VolumeID utility from Sysinternals.

So a cloned drive, depending on the effort you go to, counts as

one or two changes.

What the OS cares about, is the C: partition. So the rules should

apply to verifying the OS and its environment. That means the check

done in #8 and #9, is for the drive you're currently booted from.

If a second drive is an exact copy of the drive containing C:,

Windows should not care about that drive. It is effectively a

data drive, as far as Windows is concerned. The instant you

boot from it, then the recipe would apply to that (new) hard

drive.

You'll notice the list of ten things above, makes no mention

of user programs. You can add or subtract them all you want.

Paul

Paul wrote:<span style="color:blue">

> Beyond X wrote:

> <span style="color:green">

>> Thanks for your thoughts and information. But I'm still unsure about

>> what I asked.

>>

>> If I install the Win XP from the same CD in several harddrives and use

>> and activate them one at a time with the same computer (I suppose the

>> activation code file will be the same in each drive), what will

>> happen? In this situation, we are talking same XP (same product key)

>> and same computer. Would MS somehow cancel an activation with a drive

>> when a next drive is activated?

>>

>> Suppose I acivate one XP in one drive and later transfer the

>> activation to the other drives

>> (http://netsecurity.about.com/od/windowsxp/ qt/ aaqtwinxp0829.htm),

>> will there be no problem?

>>

>> If the above is true, then I suppose that cloned harddrives can be

>> used with the same computer even after the cloned drives are added or

>> removed some programs afterwards as long as the XP installations are

>> unchanged and as long as critical hardwares remain unchanged. (When a

>> program is added or deleted, XP's registry might undergo some changes,

>> however.) Do you agree?

>></span>

>

> http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.htm

>

> "The WPA system checks ten categories of hardware:

>

> 1. Display Adapter

> 2. SCSI Adapter

> 3. IDE Adapter (effectively the motherboard)

> 4. Network Adapter (NIC) and its MAC Address

> 5. RAM Amount Range (i.e., 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc.)

> 6. Processor Type

> 7. Processor Serial Number

> 8. Hard Drive Device

> 9. Hard Drive Volume Serial Number (VSN)

> 10. CD-ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM"

>

> Your cloned hard drive, will differ in two ways from the original.

> Items #8 and #9.</span>

Paul

Great information. Thank you very much.

Microsoft states:

[in the case where a pirate copies data from one PC hard drive to

another to illegally run the software on two PCs, Product Activation

stops that by forcing the copied software to be reactivated. It does so

by comparing the hardware on which it was activated to the hardware on

which it is now being booted. If the hardware is substantially

different, then reactivation is required. If it is the same or similar,

then the software will continue to work. Those who upgrade their PC's

hardware substantially may be asked to reactivate.]

If each harddrive is assigned two unique numbers as you wrote, question

is whether or not the set of two different numbers is considered as

substantially different provided all other hardwares remaine unchanged

(typically the same computer). Microsoft does not mention anything about

VolumeID (to my present awareness). I did not mention other booting

devices like USB drive, e-SATA, flash card. These are devices to be used

in different computers. Strictly speaking, these can be used solely as

data storage. But, practically speaking, Microsoft (and other softwares

vendors) must come up with a device that identifies the user who paid

for the software, not the machine. One way may be the use of a card

reader (connected to the motherboard) into which one needs to insert a

magnetic card (similar to a bank card or a flash memory card which is

issued (or attached with CD) by Microsoft with unique identification

code printed on it, perhaps combined with a registered password. As long

as the card is present in the computer, anyone can use the OS that

he/she payed for.

All Microsoft wants is to avoid the usage of the software by people who

obtained it by illegal copy.

I think I can say that it is now common sense that people who use

computers beyond e-mails will (and need to) switch around harddrives

with the OS from the same CD and product key.

<span style="color:blue">

> The hard drive itself has an internal serial number, and that is #8.

> The clone hard drive will have a different internal serial number.

>

> The VolumeID is something assigned to each partition. It is a 32 bit

> quantity, and I can see the values for my partitions using the free version

> of Everest. If you clone a drive, the software should be assigning a

> different VolumeID, because it wouldn't really be a volume ID if

> all the volumes had the same value. And that means, if you have a

> clone present in your system, and didn't want #9 to count against

> you, you'd want to change it with the VolumeID utility from Sysinternals.

>

> So a cloned drive, depending on the effort you go to, counts as

> one or two changes.

>

> What the OS cares about, is the C: partition. So the rules should

> apply to verifying the OS and its environment. That means the check

> done in #8 and #9, is for the drive you're currently booted from.

> If a second drive is an exact copy of the drive containing C:,

> Windows should not care about that drive. It is effectively a

> data drive, as far as Windows is concerned. The instant you

> boot from it, then the recipe would apply to that (new) hard

> drive.

>

> You'll notice the list of ten things above, makes no mention

> of user programs. You can add or subtract them all you want.

>

> Paul</span>

Beyond X wrote:

<span style="color:blue">

> Great information. Thank you very much.

> Microsoft states:

> [in the case where a pirate copies data from one PC hard drive to

> another to illegally run the software on two PCs, Product Activation

> stops that by forcing the copied software to be reactivated. It does so

> by comparing the hardware on which it was activated to the hardware on

> which it is now being booted. If the hardware is substantially

> different, then reactivation is required. If it is the same or similar,

> then the software will continue to work. Those who upgrade their PC's

> hardware substantially may be asked to reactivate.]

>

> If each harddrive is assigned two unique numbers as you wrote, question

> is whether or not the set of two different numbers is considered as

> substantially different provided all other hardwares remaine unchanged

> (typically the same computer). Microsoft does not mention anything about

> VolumeID (to my present awareness). I did not mention other booting

> devices like USB drive, e-SATA, flash card. These are devices to be used

> in different computers. Strictly speaking, these can be used solely as

> data storage. But, practically speaking, Microsoft (and other softwares

> vendors) must come up with a device that identifies the user who paid

> for the software, not the machine. One way may be the use of a card

> reader (connected to the motherboard) into which one needs to insert a

> magnetic card (similar to a bank card or a flash memory card which is

> issued (or attached with CD) by Microsoft with unique identification

> code printed on it, perhaps combined with a registered password. As long

> as the card is present in the computer, anyone can use the OS that

> he/she payed for.

> All Microsoft wants is to avoid the usage of the software by people who

> obtained it by illegal copy.

> I think I can say that it is now common sense that people who use

> computers beyond e-mails will (and need to) switch around harddrives

> with the OS from the same CD and product key.

> </span>

The VSN is the same thing as the Volume ID. It is obviously not a

"strong" check, in the sense that there is a tool to change the

value. But the serial number inside the hard drive itself, is

a stronger check from a hardware perspective.

(Tool for setting Volume ID to whatever you want. Write down

the Volume ID of your C: drive, before cloning. Since I have

two different Windows OSes on my computer, I can boot the

alternate one, use this utility, and correct the Volume ID

on my WinXP partition if needed. I would not want the

original C: to be connected when I do that, because the

Volume IDs are supposed to remain unique within the computer.

So I don't see the value of including that field in a hardware

hash.)

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinte...s/bb897436.aspx

The basic method for activation is described here. I can draw

a rough picture.

http://www.microsoft.com/norge/piracy/activation_faq.mspx

(User) ---- Type in Product Key --------------> Microsoft

(send Hardware Hash) Activation

Server

Activation Code <-------------- Outputs

Activation Code + Product Key + Hardware Hash

allows local checking of validity. Too many

changes causes the Hardware Hash component

to indicate there has been a significant change.

Any time your computer contacts Microsoft, there would

again be an opportunity for Microsoft to determine whether

there are too many references to the same Product Key, within

a certain time interval. Perhaps that check would take place

during Windows Update for example. Or when you go to

make a download of some content they care about.

It is not a "registration" scheme as such, because there

is no attempt to store personally identifiable information

there. Yes, they could log the IP address during activation,

but there are ways of getting around that, so it would hardly

be worth their bother to phone up each ISP and say ("who just

used 192.168.1.1 at 9:01 A.M. ? "). My user id here, is set

to a pseudonym, so would hardly be of any worth to them.

I mean, if the Activation Server logs

Albert Einstein

123 Any Street

that isn't exactly going to help them :-)

Paul

Paul,

Thanks again for the useful information. I will print and keep them for

future reference. I admire your knowledgeability.

Paul wrote:<span style="color:blue">

> Beyond X wrote:

> <span style="color:green">

>> Great information. Thank you very much.

>> Microsoft states:

>> [in the case where a pirate copies data from one PC hard drive to

>> another to illegally run the software on two PCs, Product Activation

>> stops that by forcing the copied software to be reactivated. It does

>> so by comparing the hardware on which it was activated to the hardware

>> on which it is now being booted. If the hardware is substantially

>> different, then reactivation is required. If it is the same or

>> similar, then the software will continue to work. Those who upgrade

>> their PC's hardware substantially may be asked to reactivate.]

>>

>> If each harddrive is assigned two unique numbers as you wrote,

>> question is whether or not the set of two different numbers is

>> considered as substantially different provided all other hardwares

>> remaine unchanged (typically the same computer). Microsoft does not

>> mention anything about VolumeID (to my present awareness). I did not

>> mention other booting devices like USB drive, e-SATA, flash card.

>> These are devices to be used in different computers. Strictly

>> speaking, these can be used solely as data storage. But, practically

>> speaking, Microsoft (and other softwares vendors) must come up with a

>> device that identifies the user who paid for the software, not the

>> machine. One way may be the use of a card reader (connected to the

>> motherboard) into which one needs to insert a magnetic card (similar

>> to a bank card or a flash memory card which is issued (or attached

>> with CD) by Microsoft with unique identification code printed on it,

>> perhaps combined with a registered password. As long as the card is

>> present in the computer, anyone can use the OS that he/she payed for.

>> All Microsoft wants is to avoid the usage of the software by people

>> who obtained it by illegal copy.

>> I think I can say that it is now common sense that people who use

>> computers beyond e-mails will (and need to) switch around harddrives

>> with the OS from the same CD and product key.

>></span>

>

> The VSN is the same thing as the Volume ID. It is obviously not a

> "strong" check, in the sense that there is a tool to change the

> value. But the serial number inside the hard drive itself, is

> a stronger check from a hardware perspective.

>

> (Tool for setting Volume ID to whatever you want. Write down

> the Volume ID of your C: drive, before cloning. Since I have

> two different Windows OSes on my computer, I can boot the

> alternate one, use this utility, and correct the Volume ID

> on my WinXP partition if needed. I would not want the

> original C: to be connected when I do that, because the

> Volume IDs are supposed to remain unique within the computer.

> So I don't see the value of including that field in a hardware

> hash.)

>

> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinte...s/bb897436.aspx

>

> The basic method for activation is described here. I can draw

> a rough picture.

>

> http://www.microsoft.com/norge/piracy/activation_faq.mspx

>

>

> (User) ---- Type in Product Key --------------> Microsoft

> (send Hardware Hash) Activation

> Server

> Activation Code <-------------- Outputs

>

> Activation Code + Product Key + Hardware Hash

> allows local checking of validity. Too many

> changes causes the Hardware Hash component

> to indicate there has been a significant change.

>

> Any time your computer contacts Microsoft, there would

> again be an opportunity for Microsoft to determine whether

> there are too many references to the same Product Key, within

> a certain time interval. Perhaps that check would take place

> during Windows Update for example. Or when you go to

> make a download of some content they care about.

>

> It is not a "registration" scheme as such, because there

> is no attempt to store personally identifiable information

> there. Yes, they could log the IP address during activation,

> but there are ways of getting around that, so it would hardly

> be worth their bother to phone up each ISP and say ("who just

> used 192.168.1.1 at 9:01 A.M. ? "). My user id here, is set

> to a pseudonym, so would hardly be of any worth to them.

> I mean, if the Activation Server logs

>

> Albert Einstein

> 123 Any Street

>

> that isn't exactly going to help them :-)

>

> Paul</span>