IS THERE ANY REAL GOD???

There are just a few questions that can provide clear answers to the

existence of Gods and any hereafter.

1.. Why does God not speak directly to all of mankind to confirm his

existence, commands and wishes? Why is God so secretive and nebulous?

2.. Why does God not demonstrate, of the thousands of God beliefs and

claims, that he is the real God and all the others are fakes? Why does he

not smite the fakes so that his creatures are not misled?

3.. Why does any real God not permit communication from dead parents,

relatives and friends with those living presently? This would permit the

living to hear first hand, from people they know and trust, how they should

properly conduct their lives. This would also confirm God's reality and the

reality of his heaven.

4.. If there is a true God, of the thousands of God beliefs and claims,

which is the true God and which are fakes? Why does the true God not smite

and destroy all the fakes so that his creatures are not misled?

Because no God has directly, clearly and with authenticity, answered any of

these questions, it is abundantly evident that none of these thousands of

Gods actually exist.

The objective evidence is that Gods did not create man, but quite the

opposite; that man created Gods!

( I'll just copy'n'paste my reply to this in alt.religion )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

1.. Why does God not speak directly to all of mankind to confirm his existence, commands and wishes? Why is God so secretive and nebulous?

For someone who doesn't acknowledge the existence of a God, it sure is silly to ask questions like "Why IS God ....." if he doesn't exist.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Why shouldn't a God be secretive and nebulous?

WHY do YOU think he is secretive and nebulous?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

2.. Why does God not demonstrate, of the thousands of God beliefs and claims, that he is the real God and all the others are fakes? Why does he not smite the fakes so that his creatures are not misled?

Why shoudn't his creatures have the option of misleading themselves?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

3.. Why does any real God not permit communication from dead parents, relatives and friends with those living presently? This would permit the living to hear first hand, from people they know and trust, how they should properly conduct their lives. This would also confirm God's reality and the reality of his heaven.

Do ALL dead people know how the living should properly conduct their lives?

Do they ALL become enlightened after death if they didn't KNOW when they were alive?

You're absolutely 100/% certain that there is an Afterlife?

You're absolutely 100/% certain that there isn't already communication occuring?

You're absolutely 100% certain that God's reality CAN BE confirmed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

4.. If there is a true God, of the thousands of God beliefs and claims, which is the true God and which are fakes? Why does the true God not smite and destroy all the fakes so that his creatures are not misled?

HOW do YOU destroy something that doesn't exist?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

Because no God has directly, clearly and with authenticity, answered any of these questions, it is abundantly evident that none of these thousands of Gods actually exist.

It is abundantly evident that a true and real God wouldn't waste his time answering such loaded questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

The objective evidence is that Gods did not create man, but quite the opposite; that man created Gods!

The objective evidence is that some men created a Godless world by accepting only what they can " see " as fact and expecting a true and real God to behave according to their own rhetorical standards.

There are just a few questions that can provide clear answers to the

existence of Gods and any hereafter.

 

1.. Why does God not speak directly to all of mankind to confirm his

existence, commands and wishes? Why is God so secretive and nebulous?

 

2.. Why does God not demonstrate, of the thousands of God beliefs and

claims, that he is the real God and all the others are fakes? Why does he

not smite the fakes so that his creatures are not misled?

 

3.. Why does any real God not permit communication from dead parents,

relatives and friends with those living presently? This would permit the

living to hear first hand, from people they know and trust, how they should

properly conduct their lives. This would also confirm God's reality and the

reality of his heaven.

 

4.. If there is a true God, of the thousands of God beliefs and claims,

which is the true God and which are fakes? Why does the true God not smite

and destroy all the fakes so that his creatures are not misled?

 

Because no God has directly, clearly and with authenticity, answered any of

these questions, it is abundantly evident that none of these thousands of

Gods actually exist.

 

The objective evidence is that Gods did not create man, but quite the

opposite; that man created Gods!

Bill is a dull conversationalist.

He posts this exact same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, then ignores those who responded originally and smacked his sorry ass like a girl in a bondage movie.

Get over it Bill. YOU LOST!!

Bill is a dull conversationalist.

 

He posts this exact same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, then ignores those who responded originally and smacked his sorry ass like a girl in a bondage movie.

 

Get over it Bill. YOU LOST!!

You reduntly repeat yourself over and over!

Bill is a dull conversationalist.

 

He posts this exact same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, then ignores those who responded originally and smacked his sorry ass like a girl in a bondage movie.

 

Get over it Bill. YOU LOST!!

whack

Who's your Daddy !?!

smack !

I really loved Mary's answer, though! I gave her some rep!

Ooooooh ..... is that like frequent flyer miles? Can I trade those in for anything?

whack

 

Who's your Daddy !?!

 

smack !

heheheheheheh...

Actually, I've got him over on http://Off Topic Forum.com/showthread.php?t=80280

trying to weasel out of refuting a paper I wrote for a Medieval Philosophy class that caused my professor to convert from atheism.

Mary, if you are so inclined, join us for the fun!

heheheheheheh...

 

Actually, I've got him over on http://Off Topic Forum.com/showthread.php?t=80280

 

trying to weasel out of refuting a paper I wrote for a Medieval Philosophy class that caused my professor to convert from atheism.

 

Mary, if you are so inclined, join us for the fun!

Now are you trying to tell me that Mr. Bill up above and Mr. Bob Young over yonder are one in the same ?

Now are you trying to tell me that Mr. Bill up above and Mr. Bob Young over yonder are one in the same ?

I don't know, but thinking about it now, they MIGHT be! They seem to have the same M.O..

No There is no god.

We all know which is the oldest profession. But let me tell you which is the oldest business--religion.

Get all those superstitious fools interested in the crap. Frighten them into submission with tales of hell and damnation. Now tell them that god needs a nice church to be at, when receiving the adoration thing. Get then to contribute often until the temple is built.

Of course, as gods representative on earth - the businessman need a freebie too, so explain to the mutton heads that a home attached to the church is a must as well. Of course the business man will also need to eat and pay his bills. So a fat salary would be best. Because of his obvious importance, a cook, maid and gardener desireable too

Business man must fully understand the mutton heads and their needs, and set about addressing same. ie making them feel accepted by the god and the church. Solemnizing their ceremonies, marriages,deaths,births etc like they were worth a shit. Result :businessman lives happily and richly for life, and passes the business on to an underling who has given unswerving loyalty, to the businessman- superior.

I bet those early guys would laugh their arses off if they could see how big their scam became.

I just cannot believe that in my time people still fall for all this bullocks.

Sorry Hamza, but its the Muslims that really make me laugh. Just look at them on all fours with their fucking arses stuck up in the air !!!!!!!!

Get a life all you idiots... Why are there so many of you? Muslims,Christians,Jews,Sikhs,Hindus, perhaps I missed some group,but it doesn't really matter. None of you idiots is really worth mentioning anyway.

slip knot hazed over the rationale. Well said.

I'll add this. If there is a god, the current commercial concept of god would make she/he cringe.

Marketting has destroyed any credibility for the cause, and roped in all the dupes and dumbarses the world over.

Let's have a global get-together of all these retards on a rather large ship, and steer it straight into an iceberg. Natural justice, I think it's called.

builder says:

Let's have a global get-together of all these retards on a rather large ship, and steer it straight into an iceberg. Natural justice, I think it's called.

__________________

Great idea Builder. If only we could get it done, I reckon the world would be a better place. They sheep-heads have caused more wars than all the other fools put together.

Great idea Builder. If only we could get it done, I reckon the world would be a better place. They sheep-heads have caused more wars than all the other fools put together.

And the iced water will take all the hot air clean out of 'em too, Reverend John. That'll fix 'em.

Did I forget to put one of these on my last post??

I'll add this. If there is a god, the current commercial concept of god would make she/he cringe.

Inhales Its like he's sayin' what we're all thinkin' .

I would also like to point out the humour in your use of the word commercial which could be taken as inclusionary of religious institutions as part of the commercial world, which they most certainly are.

I asked this question of somebody else here.

Is the catholic church taxed as a business concern in America?

Is evangilism a profitable entrepreneurial position?

Are there more gullible needy souls than rational people in the world?

All interesting questions, your honour.

Inhales Its like he's sayin' what we're all thinkin' .

 

 

I would also like to point out the humour in your use of the word commercial which could be taken as inclusionary of religious institutions as part of the commercial world, which they most certainly are.

What library did you fall out of?

Slip_knot, it isn't necessarily that people are stupid. I know they are. But some people want to actually have something to believe in. I wan't there to be some sort of heaven-like place that I go to after I die. Does it exist? I don't know. Does it's possible non-existance stop me from believing in it? Nope. Know why? Because if all you do is die...and nothing else happens, at least I thought that something good would happen before I die. I would die happy. Now, if I were an athiest, I would know that heaven didn't exist, so I would think that life was pretty useless, because what we do on earth effects nothing other than itself. But this isn't the only reason.

For example: Some people like quarells(sp), so they, if they were christian, would go to people and say that they were going to hell for being gay/bi/semi-retarded. Other person starts saying that they are wrong, and an argument breaks out.

Another(catholocism): You like small children...in weird ways. You become a preist and they only sex you have from now on involves young boys limping out of a rectory.

I am not saying religion necessarily helps people be better. It does, however, make some people happy...pisses others off. Oh well...

I'll bite. BTW, happy nu yeehah to you too, JAW. Been a while.

Who busted into a temple and turned over all the money-changer's tables, berating them viciously for using the church for profit? That would be Jesus.

Who said: "make no craven images before me"? That would be God.

Who said: "give up all your worldly possessions if you want to follow me"? That would be Jesus.

Who said: "anywhere that two people meet in my name is a church"? That would be God.

So where is religion now? It's in the biggest money-spinning sham in the business world. That's where. And how do the leaders disport themselves in religion? With wealth and pagaentry and robes and crowns and jewelled sceptres and mumbled rites and atrociously decorated cathedrals adorned with.................craven images.

How fucked up is that?

Religion is business. And that is why it has debased itself into charlotism, and that is why cults receive such an awesome following, because those that do think about the issue of religion rationally, refute the current packaged crapola, and look for something non-commercial to place their faith in.

How's that for a rant?

I'm not saying that God isn't commerciallized these days. But there are those that don't buy into all of that. Those who actually try to live a great life and worship alot and think god for what is good in their lives. But, I will admit that 99.9 percent of people don't do that. Quite sad, really.

JAW, I agree with you. Builder, you can't just say that religion is a business, that is far, far too general, and inaccurate.

In my opinion, I actually think the world we lives in spins religion into an organization that needs money, not the other way around, where it calls itself a business. Most people, out of good faith attend mass, or believe they should pay tithes to the church they attend, or try their best to abideby the ten commandments, and whatever other examples there are.

Those examples I gave are examples of faith, belief, and the enjoyment of doing so. The money part comes into play were ANY institution, not just religion, needs money to survive. It's the sad world we live in that something as simple and pure as faith can't get on in this world without a buck to help it by.

I mean, it's obviously idiotic to ignore obvious money-grabbers like the Vatican who spend lavishly on themselves (moreso in the long-past than recent), or TV Evangelists, or non-religiously spawned companies who sell Bibles on DVD. But then that's people & money abusing religion, not religion abusing people and money.

But to say that religion is a business can be far from the truth, because it is not money, or profit that attract the average joe to their faith. It is for the enjoyment of the belief that they are entitled to. People have to buy into what companies sell them, though, because suddenly practicing their faith comes at a price (in some cases), instead of free.

Anything can be marketed, it doesn't matter if it's your own shit, an iPod, or religion. The only reason that it survives is because nothing comes free anymore, people feel like they need it, and companies have brains behind the scene who can figure out mass-market ploys to make anything sell.

It seems you are taking a lot of the Catholic Church and using that as a representation of all denominations of Christianity, and other religions, too.

Yes, I made a sweeping generalisation, Jenn. But here is how the US govt can easily be led into supporting such religious nutcases as our new messiah, the reverend Moon. He bought his way into congress, and swindles his way into lots of things we will never know about. Last seen in the company of Bush's brother.

As part of an Ambassadors for Peace ceremony, Rev. Moon was one of several dozen honorees at a ceremony at the Dirksen Senate Office Building on March 23, 2004. In what both church insiders and media commentators have called a "coronation ceremony," Moon and his wife were given bejeweled crowns by Rep. Danny K. Davis, D-IL.

 

Moon announced that he would save everyone on Earth as he had saved the souls of even such murderous dictators as Hitler and Stalin, who he claimed had received "the Blessing" through him. Moon said the reformed Hitler and Stalin vouched for him from the spirit world, calling him "none other than humanity's Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent."

 

The media ignored the event at the time except for Moon's Washington Times, but freelance journalist John Gorenfeld spent the next three months reconstructing the details of the event. His writings forced a sheepish Washington Post, scooped by Web sites, to cover the Senate ritual, which The New York Times editorial page compared to an act of the Roman emperor Caligula.

It's all about money. If you want to worship, you don't need to pander to the wishes of someone who thinks they are above you. As kids in a youth group, we used to have church in a shady grove of trees by a creek on weekend camping trips. There is no need to wear your sunday best or visit a pointy-roofed building for your prayers to be heard.

Yes, I made a sweeping generalisation, Jenn. But here is how the US govt can easily be led into supporting such religious nutcases as our new messiah, the reverend Moon. He bought his way into congress, and swindles his way into lots of things we will never know about. Last seen in the company of Bush's brother.

 

 

 

It's all about money. If you want to worship, you don't need to pander to the wishes of someone who thinks they are above you. As kids in a youth group, we used to have church in a shady grove of trees by a creek on weekend camping trips. There is no need to wear your sunday best or visit a pointy-roofed building for your prayers to be heard.

Saying there is no need to wear your Sunday best is like saying you don't need to be presentable for your partner. It's nice to be presentable, it's nice to go out of your way. I seriously doubt people feel like they're defying God if they don't wear frilly lace. It's a choice they make, the same as someone would make to dress up to go on a date.

Religion does not equal money. But for the institutions that people CHOOSE to attend, they have to pay money, or else they won't exist. The church has to be paid for before it can exist and have a roof and walls. It requires money to do that. And since people choose to want that, they also have to pay for it. If everyone wanted to pray in the shadow of a tree, then they would. People make the choice to follow their religion the way they want, but that still does not equate to a church, or a religion being a business.

Also, my first point wasn't intended to necessarily point out way in which a religion may or may not be businesslike, but actually to point out your massive mistake in being far too general and making yourself look ignorant of what else goes on this world (like..you know, other religions?)

Yes, I made a sweeping generalisation, Jenn. But here is how the US govt can easily be led into supporting such religious nutcases as our new messiah, the reverend Moon. He bought his way into congress, and swindles his way into lots of things we will never know about. Last seen in the company of Bush's brother.

One thing you will find in debates, Builder, is that the US government happens to be a very corrupt power, and since G Dubya is in the white house, it is even worse. I could see how you would draw a paralell between "Big bidness" and religion, but that isn't the case. Those who are elected in america see themselves as indebted not to those who elected them, but to those who payed their way in. So, of course, religion happens to be one of the things that Bush trys to make bidness, but you can't tell me every single christian, jew, or catholic does the same thing. You just can't.

It's all about money. If you want to worship, you don't need to pander to the wishes of someone who thinks they are above you. As kids in a youth group, we used to have church in a shady grove of trees by a creek on weekend camping trips. There is no need to wear your sunday best or visit a pointy-roofed building for your prayers to be heard.

We never said that you had to go to church. But those who want to go have to pay just a little into the collection plate, or tithe. They don't pay a damn thing if they don't go.