Gentilhomme Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Self esteem keeps getting in the way of the truth. Computers have none and are able to function properly in part to this. We have come to the point where we must ask ourselves which is better; logic and efficiency or emotion. A healthy balance would be nice but I Quote - I hate standing at funerals, i get so tired = Yah you'ld think there would be more places to lay down at a funeral home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 AHHHHHHHH The duality that is man. It's a bitch ain't it Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentilhomme Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Sweet jesus Tizz, i only JUST posted this! you're a quik'un eh.. Quote - I hate standing at funerals, i get so tired = Yah you'ld think there would be more places to lay down at a funeral home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phreakwars Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Sweet jesus Tizz, i only JUST posted this! you're a quik'un eh.. Told ya shes a FORUM WHORE. . . Quote https://www.facebook.com/phreakwars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 What when I get bored I go nuts on a couple of forums. I am on the summer work schedual and I don't work till thursday. And ya I read quickly and recently had a very lengthy discussion on this very subject with someone Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 OH and HAPPY BIRTHDAY MR Gentillhomme Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentilhomme Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 why thank you, for my birthday i would like intelligent conversation about the above subject or atleast critique on my conclusions. Quote - I hate standing at funerals, i get so tired = Yah you'ld think there would be more places to lay down at a funeral home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phreakwars Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Yes, back on track here. Logic is defined by what a majority of people can agree on and what can be proven time and time again, while emotion is a matter of personal opinion. I think the real question here, is what is stronger... Emotion, or LOGIC. Emotion drives religions, drives wars, drives people to commit crime. Logic on the other hand, is a collective emotion agreed on by the masses. Grass is green : This logic comes from the fact that the masses will interpret the color of grass to a specific classification... ALMOST ALL HUMANS SEE THE SAME THING, THEREFORE IT IS A LOGIC. Grass smells good: This is an emotion and a matter of opinion, some people may disagree and think the smell of grass is horrid. Therefore this feeling is EMOTION. 2 key senses involved sight and smell, yet one is Logic because it is agreed on by all. To create a world with 100% logic is to have a world without wonders. We need EMOTION to feel inspired and creative. . . Quote https://www.facebook.com/phreakwars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Logic is more than the majority beliefe. Without bringing quantum physics into it, logic represents what is black and white. If you have one apple and i give you one more, then you have in your current pssession two apple. That is logical. Emotion is as yet undefinable, though I am in a discussion that is getting ever closer to finding a doable definition (though it will be a neverending debate over whether or not emotions count as a sense and wether it is in fact out rational thought and ability to use logic or our emotion and the effects emotion has on us that make us human.) This is quite a concept to wrap my head around yet again (boy I have had quite a few headaches over this one) but I will give it my damndest after my daughter goes to bed later Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentilhomme Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Well there is a tricky debate aside form the above, What is logic? I'd agree with Tizz that its the black and white of the universe however wht peopel precieve as black and white CAN differ, so is logic the gerenrally precieved reality or the unique personal reality of each individuel. Its not really fair to tell people who don't seee things that same as you that THEY are wrong, that would be a tad presumptiuos would it not? Now we eneter the relm or 'The Matrix' and wht is real. If somebody gets different electrical signals runnning through their head then does that make them wrong? And yet another; Is right and wrong (true or false) a group preception with its validity held only becaise it is shared? Tricky tricky business. Quote - I hate standing at funerals, i get so tired = Yah you'ld think there would be more places to lay down at a funeral home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhony5 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Logic is stronger than emotion. Logic does not break down. Logic is not subject to change. Logic does not lead to mistakes. Emotion is dangerous. It leads to mistakes. It changes fluidly. If you are in a dangerous or stressful situation then one would be wise to set emotion aside and follow logic. Quote i am sofa king we todd did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Logic is stronger than emotion. Logic does not break down. Logic is not subject to change. Logic does not lead to mistakes. Emotion is dangerous. It leads to mistakes. It changes fluidly. If you are in a dangerous or stressful situation then one would be wise to set emotion aside and follow logic. Ok but which force drives us as humans, logic or emotion? Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Well there is a tricky debate aside form the above, What is logic? I'd agree with Tizz that its the black and white of the universe however wht peopel precieve as black and white CAN differ, so is logic the gerenrally precieved reality or the unique personal reality of each individuel. Its not really fair to tell people who don't seee things that same as you that THEY are wrong, that would be a tad presumptiuos would it not? Now we eneter the relm or 'The Matrix' and wht is real. If somebody gets different electrical signals runnning through their head then does that make them wrong? And yet another; Is right and wrong (true or false) a group preception with its validity held only becaise it is shared? Tricky tricky business. See now I knew this would land in the warped crazy, mind bending world of quantum physics. For the sake of the discussio I think we have to create a few definitions to go by or else we will be saying nothing as if it is all perception then there is no reality but your own blah blah blah and down the rabbit hole we go LOL Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhony5 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Ok but which force drives us as humans, logic or emotion? Both. Emotion has strong influenece in human nature because emotion can be very sef-serving and people are often selfish. When my wife left me for another man my emotion drove me near insanity. My emotion told me to fight. My emotion told me to do things of a violent nature. My emotion almost drove me to kill. Logic told me not to. Logic explained the aftermath of emotional reaction. Logic and emotion are a strange mix. Both have the ability to overpower eachother. In the end it is your intellegence that decides which will drive you. Quote i am sofa king we todd did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 OK so was it really logic or fear/compassion in regards to the consequence... HEHE I see the rabbit hole straight ahead WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentilhomme Posted June 29, 2005 Author Share Posted June 29, 2005 The whole evolutionary purpose of emotion is motovation outside of logic. In most cases people can be totally rule by their emotions, defending their mate or children etc. Now being the ever malable balls of Playdough that our brains are, we can be 'experienced' into controling this shit. A baby is a good example; our basic mind set goes 'gimmie gimmie' and 'owy owy' A babay learns wht is expected of it in order to get its needs fulfilled. however these must be learned, that is our experience. SO if we live through our decent share of shite then we learn how to deal with it; to 'gimmie gimmie happiness again' instead of giving into the usually harsher consequences of giving into emotion's ideas (reaction). However those who have live an easy life and not learned form the mistakes of others become more emotionally distrot by smaller amounts of stress, you could call them sissies but they just not as emotionally 'calased' as some of us. So when you say that its better to CHOOSE logic, this can be true. Logic is after all logical. But emotion can rule it out more then logic can rule emotion (how extreme of an emotion is necessary to rule depends on the situation and the indivduel.) I certainly think that emotion will always come out on top when your control is tried the most. (Unless you a monk or something) The thing is we WANT to give into our emotions, they are what we desire and it is the logical mind that keeps us in check (See Frued for more infomation on this kinda principal.) Quote - I hate standing at funerals, i get so tired = Yah you'ld think there would be more places to lay down at a funeral home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhony5 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 OK so was it really logic or fear/compassion in regards to the consequence... HEHE I see the rabbit hole straight ahead WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Your a tricky one,Tizz. Lets see, was it logic that told me the consequence was self-detrimental? It would have been illogical for me to think violence would solve my issue. In regards to that particular issue, fear had become a non-issue as my hope for a positive outcome had vanished. My emotive responces (anger/violence) leaned towards retribution/revenge. My logical responces leaned towards self-preservation. If I had acted violently my life and/or freedom would be comprimised. So now i'm contradicting my earlier assertion that emotion was self driven because now my logic has become self driven. Now I see why you made the "rabbit hole" comment. Fuck it. Quote i am sofa king we todd did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentilhomme Posted June 29, 2005 Author Share Posted June 29, 2005 Percisely, the "Baby" has been conditioned to realize the best way to fulfill his needs, such as life and freedom, and your response was overidden to insure your 'greater' satisfaction, or rather survival. Basic human drives Quote - I hate standing at funerals, i get so tired = Yah you'ld think there would be more places to lay down at a funeral home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 So johny, you feared teh loss of your freedoms.... Can we truly seperate logic and emotion in teh human condition? Why to we seek to survive? Logical need to exist? or fear of not surviving..... OOO that waskily wabbit Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 The whole evolutionary purpose of emotion is motovation outside of logic. In most cases people can be totally rule by their emotions, defending their mate or children etc. Now being the ever malable balls of Playdough that our brains are, we can be 'experienced' into controling this shit. A baby is a good example; our basic mind set goes 'gimmie gimmie' and 'owy owy' A babay learns wht is expected of it in order to get its needs fulfilled. however these must be learned, that is our experience. SO if we live through our decent share of shite then we learn how to deal with it; to 'gimmie gimmie happiness again' instead of giving into the usually harsher consequences of giving into emotion's ideas (reaction). However those who have live an easy life and not learned form the mistakes of others become more emotionally distrot by smaller amounts of stress, you could call them sissies but they just not as emotionally 'calased' as some of us. So when you say that its better to CHOOSE logic, this can be true. Logic is after all logical. But emotion can rule it out more then logic can rule emotion (how extreme of an emotion is necessary to rule depends on the situation and the indivduel.) I certainly think that emotion will always come out on top when your control is tried the most. (Unless you a monk or something) The thing is we WANT to give into our emotions, they are what we desire and it is the logical mind that keeps us in check (See Frued for more infomation on this kinda principal.) OK so we have to start at teh begin with ID EGO and SUPEREGO then. LOL I am telling you this is a scary place we are going here!!!! Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhony5 Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 So johny, you feared teh loss of your freedoms.... Can we truly seperate logic and emotion in teh human condition? Why to we seek to survive? Logical need to exist? or fear of not surviving..... OOO that waskily wabbit As my nigga Spock would say, "emotion is illogical". Survival is a strong mix of the two. Other aspects of life are going to lean one way or the other. Death for instance. Logic tells us that we are going to die and cease to exist. Emotion is going to try and make us believe that somehow we will live forever. Lets try not bring religion into this cuz we know where that will get us. Death sparks emotion more than any other occurence. Whether its just the thought of mortality or the pain of losing a loved one. Quote i am sofa king we todd did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Yes but before society told us death was bad and that there was something to fear in it, it was embraced. All you have to do is look at teh native cultures around the world to see how death is embraced and not feared. It is not religion but culture and society. Logic is that we no longer exist on this plain and that our body returns to the earth and that there is an energy that cannot be explained. Emotions we feel are based on both our experience and our society Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentilhomme Posted June 29, 2005 Author Share Posted June 29, 2005 Well you'll note that the little native cultures are 'cultures'. this means that they too are conditioned en-masse to not fear death. Fear of death is a curse layed upon humans by the very thing that seperated us form our ancestors; the ability to plan ahead. We know its coming and our main instinct is to survive so it therefore sends that into panic mode, almost as if a tiger were nibbling at our ankles we know that sooner or later time will end us, like the tiger it threatens our life and it is therefore feared. However some people find comfort in their end or rather are comfortable with it. This is where logic, conditioning, comes into play. We don't want to be unhappy and therefore logic dictates that we must give the boot to such fear. Quote - I hate standing at funerals, i get so tired = Yah you'ld think there would be more places to lay down at a funeral home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizz Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I don't know if I fear death from teh tiger or pain.... I think If a tiger were nibbling at my ankles and death were inevitable it would be a reliefe no? Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy Critter Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Philosophy is the coldest clinical method of thought and I find this guy intriguing. http://home.nvg.org/~aga/stories/enchiridion.html if you read and can follow the guide you are a better man than me. He helps you pre plan emotion and dismiss things you would usually allow to upset you. Can everyone enjoy this almost 2,000 year old thinking, guess not but it will give you pause. Quote Last week, I stated this woman was the ugliest woman I had ever seen. I have since been visited by her sister, and now wish to withdraw that statement. - Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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