Major employment problems in western US: Too many jobs, no takers

D

djw

Guest
Now this seems a bit counter-intuitive. I read things here daily that
say under Bush people have fallen on hard times and job oppurtunities
have dried up.

And that he has wrecked the economy and that the employment figures
are misleading because of the disheartened people who have just given
up on a job and now live under highway bridges.

And that we should ignore the supposed facts and instead listen to the
anecdotal evidence that only liberals seem to hear.

I dunno. Maybe those people just aren't trying hard enough?


Help Wanted Ads Go Unanswered in West
Aug 25, 8:26 AM (ET)
By MATT GOURAS

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070825/D8R820QO0.html
HELENA, Mont. (AP) - The owner of a fast food joint in Montana's
booming oil patch found himself outsourcing the drive-thru window to a
Texas telemarketing firm, not because it's cheaper but because he
can't find workers.

Record low unemployment across parts of the West has created tough
working conditions for business owners, who in places are being forced
to boost wages or be creative to fill their jobs.

John Francis, who owns the McDonald's in Sidney, Mont., said he tried
advertising in the local newspaper and even offered up to $10 an hour
to compete with higher-paying oil field jobs. Yet the only calls were
from other business owners upset they would have to raise wages, too.
Of course, Francis' current employees also wanted a pay hike.

"I don't know what the answer is," Francis said. "There's just nobody
around that wants to work."

Unemployment rates have been as low as 2 percent this year in places
like Montana, and nearly as low in neighboring states. Economists cite
such factors as an aging work force and booming tourism economies for
the tight labor market.

For places like Montana, it has been a steady climb in the nearly two
decades since the timber and mining industry recession. The state
approached double-digit unemployment levels in the 1980s and began the
slow crawl back in the early 1990s.

"This is actually the biggest economic story of our time, and we don't
quite grasp it because it is 15 years in the making," said economist
Larry Swanson, director of the O'Connor Center for the Rocky Mountain
West at the University of Montana.

The U.S. Department of Labor reports the mountain West region -
covering eight states along the Rocky Mountains - has the lowest
overall unemployment rate in the nation. The region hit an all-time
low of 3.4 percent in May.

The effects are everywhere. Logging equipment in Idaho sits idle as
companies have a tough time finding workers. A shortage of lifeguards
has forced Helena to shorten hours at children-only pools. A local
paper in Jackson, Wyo., has page after page of help wanted ads.

In Jackson Hole, the Four Seasons Resort still had openings in late
July) The problem has created longer hours and tougher working
conditions for current employees.

For years, the resort has imported dozens of workers from Eastern
Europe who often come as much for the summer recreation opportunity as
the money. This year, however, that wasn't enough and so for the first
time the resort also sent recruiters to a high school job fair, said
spokeswoman Greer Terry. It only helped a little.

"It's been a struggle finding employees this summer," Terry said.

Economists say there are a number of reasons why parts of the West are
feeling the labor pinch.

Established baby boomers, including retirees, have been moving into
Montana for the mountain views and recreation, bringing with them
money for new homes that fuel construction job growth, said Swanson.

Along the way, younger people have moved away searching for bigger
paychecks as the state's wages still lag behind other areas and are
slowly increasing overall. Now, the aging work force is unable to
expand to meet the demands of the job market, Swanson said.

He said the problem is compounded by the fact that employers,
accustomed to paying relatively low wages, have been slow to increase
salaries. Montana wages have historically been among the lowest in the
country, and still rank near the bottom. The silver lining for workers
is that wages are now growing at the third-fastest rate among U.S.
states.

Now, workers with more options in some places are unwilling to take
$12-an-hour jobs.

The problem could get worse as more baby boomers retire, Swanson said.
By 2030, Montana and Wyoming are predicted to have among the oldest
populations in the U.S, with about 26 percent of residents 65 and
older, Swanson said. That compares to 19.7 percent predicted
nationally.

"We thought the labor force crunch wouldn't come until 2012, but it's
already arrived in a lot of these fast-growth areas," Swanson said. As
a result, "you'll find older workers working longer, people will sort
of linger in the work force. The employers will make it worth their
time to."

Swanson added the phenomenon of quasi-retirement with older workers
cutting back on hours but still heading to the office will grow, while
international workers will be drawn to the region. Younger workers who
used to leave will find it worth their while to stay.

"The squeeze is on. You get into these 2 percent and less unemployment
rates and you're moving into a seller's market with the seller being
the worker," Swanson said.

Officials worry the razor thin labor market could bind economic
growth, although there has been no indication of that yet.

"One of the reasons we are seeing the lower (unemployment) rates is we
are starting to see more investment in our economy. It's like finding
an undervalued stock," said Tyler Turner, Montana's economic
development chief.

In Helena, the pool of applicants has been shrinking even for jobs on
the police force. For professional jobs, such as department managers,
the city is considering hiring slightly underqualified people that can
be trained on the job.

"This is the tightest market I have ever seen," said Salty Payne, who
has worked in the Helena City human resource office for 15 years.

Payne in part blames the area's building boom, which is drawing
workers to construction trades that are offering higher salaries.

Montana state lawmaker Art Noonan lives in the mining town of Butte -
the epicenter of a big mining bust 20 years ago. Now, more people are
moving in to build second homes and high paying jobs are coming back
as copper prices go up.

"All of these things are sort of clicking at the same time," Noonan
said. "The only economic development we used to get was the creation
of more economic development offices."

In Utah - where unemployment rates have been hovering around 2.5
percent - amusement parks, trucking companies, telemarketing firms and
others have been paying bonuses of hundreds of dollars or more to find
workers.

"It boils down to the attractiveness of the (interior) West," said
Mark Knold, chief economist at the Utah Department of Workforce
Services. "It is a population magnet."

And workers have benefited. Utah workers saw a 5.4 percent average
wage increase in 2006, Knold said.

But questions remain about how long the West can weather the problems
that come with low unemployment.

"The hardest thing is to keep the economy growing at a strong rate
when you have a low unemployment rate," he said. "Take a company that
wants to expand. Where is the next worker going to come from?"
 
On Aug 25, 1:09 pm, djw <wells.fam...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> Now this seems a bit counter-intuitive. I read things here daily that
> say under Bush people have fallen on hard times and job oppurtunities
> have dried up.
>
> And that he has wrecked the economy and that the employment figures
> are misleading because of the disheartened people who have just given
> up on a job and now live under highway bridges.
>
> And that we should ignore the supposed facts and instead listen to the
> anecdotal evidence that only liberals seem to hear.
>
> I dunno. Maybe those people just aren't trying hard enough?
>
> Help Wanted Ads Go Unanswered in West
> Aug 25, 8:26 AM (ET)
> By MATT GOURAS
>
> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070825/D8R820QO0.html
> HELENA, Mont. (AP) - The owner of a fast food joint in Montana's
> booming oil patch found himself outsourcing the drive-thru window to a
> Texas telemarketing firm, not because it's cheaper but because he
> can't find workers.
>
> Record low unemployment across parts of the West has created tough
> working conditions for business owners, who in places are being forced
> to boost wages or be creative to fill their jobs.
>
> John Francis, who owns the McDonald's in Sidney, Mont., said he tried
> advertising in the local newspaper and even offered up to $10 an hour
> to compete with higher-paying oil field jobs. Yet the only calls were
> from other business owners upset they would have to raise wages, too.
> Of course, Francis' current employees also wanted a pay hike.
>
> "I don't know what the answer is," Francis said. "There's just nobody
> around that wants to work."
>
> Unemployment rates have been as low as 2 percent this year in places
> like Montana, and nearly as low in neighboring states. Economists cite
> such factors as an aging work force and booming tourism economies for
> the tight labor market.
>
> For places like Montana, it has been a steady climb in the nearly two
> decades since the timber and mining industry recession. The state
> approached double-digit unemployment levels in the 1980s and began the
> slow crawl back in the early 1990s.
>
> "This is actually the biggest economic story of our time, and we don't
> quite grasp it because it is 15 years in the making," said economist
> Larry Swanson, director of the O'Connor Center for the Rocky Mountain
> West at the University of Montana.
>
> The U.S. Department of Labor reports the mountain West region -
> covering eight states along the Rocky Mountains - has the lowest
> overall unemployment rate in the nation. The region hit an all-time
> low of 3.4 percent in May.
>
> The effects are everywhere. Logging equipment in Idaho sits idle as
> companies have a tough time finding workers. A shortage of lifeguards
> has forced Helena to shorten hours at children-only pools. A local
> paper in Jackson, Wyo., has page after page of help wanted ads.
>
> In Jackson Hole, the Four Seasons Resort still had openings in late
> July) The problem has created longer hours and tougher working
> conditions for current employees.
>
> For years, the resort has imported dozens of workers from Eastern
> Europe who often come as much for the summer recreation opportunity as
> the money. This year, however, that wasn't enough and so for the first
> time the resort also sent recruiters to a high school job fair, said
> spokeswoman Greer Terry. It only helped a little.
>
> "It's been a struggle finding employees this summer," Terry said.
>
> Economists say there are a number of reasons why parts of the West are
> feeling the labor pinch.
>
> Established baby boomers, including retirees, have been moving into
> Montana for the mountain views and recreation, bringing with them
> money for new homes that fuel construction job growth, said Swanson.
>
> Along the way, younger people have moved away searching for bigger
> paychecks as the state's wages still lag behind other areas and are
> slowly increasing overall. Now, the aging work force is unable to
> expand to meet the demands of the job market, Swanson said.
>
> He said the problem is compounded by the fact that employers,
> accustomed to paying relatively low wages, have been slow to increase
> salaries. Montana wages have historically been among the lowest in the
> country, and still rank near the bottom. The silver lining for workers
> is that wages are now growing at the third-fastest rate among U.S.
> states.
>
> Now, workers with more options in some places are unwilling to take
> $12-an-hour jobs.
>
> The problem could get worse as more baby boomers retire, Swanson said.
> By 2030, Montana and Wyoming are predicted to have among the oldest
> populations in the U.S, with about 26 percent of residents 65 and
> older, Swanson said. That compares to 19.7 percent predicted
> nationally.
>
> "We thought the labor force crunch wouldn't come until 2012, but it's
> already arrived in a lot of these fast-growth areas," Swanson said. As
> a result, "you'll find older workers working longer, people will sort
> of linger in the work force. The employers will make it worth their
> time to."
>
> Swanson added the phenomenon of quasi-retirement with older workers
> cutting back on hours but still heading to the office will grow, while
> international workers will be drawn to the region. Younger workers who
> used to leave will find it worth their while to stay.
>
> "The squeeze is on. You get into these 2 percent and less unemployment
> rates and you're moving into a seller's market with the seller being
> the worker," Swanson said.
>
> Officials worry the razor thin labor market could bind economic
> growth, although there has been no indication of that yet.
>
> "One of the reasons we are seeing the lower (unemployment) rates is we
> are starting to see more investment in our economy. It's like finding
> an undervalued stock," said Tyler Turner, Montana's economic
> development chief.
>
> In Helena, the pool of applicants has been shrinking even for jobs on
> the police force. For professional jobs, such as department managers,
> the city is considering hiring slightly underqualified people that can
> be trained on the job.
>
> "This is the tightest market I have ever seen," said Salty Payne, who
> has worked in the Helena City human resource office for 15 years.
>
> Payne in part blames the area's building boom, which is drawing
> workers to construction trades that are offering higher salaries.
>
> Montana state lawmaker Art Noonan lives in the mining town of Butte -
> the epicenter of a big mining bust 20 years ago. Now, more people are
> moving in to build second homes and high paying jobs are coming back
> as copper prices go up.
>
> "All of these things are sort of clicking at the same time," Noonan
> said. "The only economic development we used to get was the creation
> of more economic development offices."
>
> In Utah - where unemployment rates have been hovering around 2.5
> percent - amusement parks, trucking companies, telemarketing firms and
> others have been paying bonuses of hundreds of dollars or more to find
> workers.
>
> "It boils down to the attractiveness of the (interior) West," said
> Mark Knold, chief economist at the Utah Department of Workforce
> Services. "It is a population magnet."
>
> And workers have benefited. Utah workers saw a 5.4 percent average
> wage increase in 2006, Knold said.
>
> But questions remain about how long the West can weather the problems
> that come with low unemployment.
>
> "The hardest thing is to keep the economy growing at a strong rate
> when you have a low unemployment rate," he said. "Take a company that
> wants to expand. Where is the next worker going to come from?"


Pay a decent wage and they will come. How much is a decent wage? Pay
yourself what you plan to pay your employee; live off it and pay all
the bills and still put away a modest chunk of change way for
retirement. That would be ball park.
 
On Aug 25, 1:09 pm, djw <wells.fam...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> Now this seems a bit counter-intuitive. I read things here daily that
> say under Bush people have fallen on hard times and job oppurtunities
> have dried up.
>
> And that he has wrecked the economy and that the employment figures
> are misleading because of the disheartened people who have just given
> up on a job and now live under highway bridges.
>
> And that we should ignore the supposed facts and instead listen to the
> anecdotal evidence that only liberals seem to hear.
>
> I dunno. Maybe those people just aren't trying hard enough?
>
> Help Wanted Ads Go Unanswered in West
> Aug 25, 8:26 AM (ET)
> By MATT GOURAS
>
> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070825/D8R820QO0.html
> HELENA, Mont. (AP) - The owner of a fast food joint in Montana's
> booming oil patch found himself outsourcing the drive-thru window to a
> Texas telemarketing firm, not because it's cheaper but because he
> can't find workers.
>
> Record low unemployment across parts of the West has created tough
> working conditions for business owners, who in places are being forced
> to boost wages or be creative to fill their jobs.
>
> John Francis, who owns the McDonald's in Sidney, Mont., said he tried
> advertising in the local newspaper and even offered up to $10 an hour
> to compete with higher-paying oil field jobs. Yet the only calls were
> from other business owners upset they would have to raise wages, too.
> Of course, Francis' current employees also wanted a pay hike.
>
> "I don't know what the answer is," Francis said. "There's just nobody
> around that wants to work."
>
> Unemployment rates have been as low as 2 percent this year in places
> like Montana, and nearly as low in neighboring states. Economists cite
> such factors as an aging work force and booming tourism economies for
> the tight labor market.
>
> For places like Montana, it has been a steady climb in the nearly two
> decades since the timber and mining industry recession. The state
> approached double-digit unemployment levels in the 1980s and began the
> slow crawl back in the early 1990s.
>
> "This is actually the biggest economic story of our time, and we don't
> quite grasp it because it is 15 years in the making," said economist
> Larry Swanson, director of the O'Connor Center for the Rocky Mountain
> West at the University of Montana.
>
> The U.S. Department of Labor reports the mountain West region -
> covering eight states along the Rocky Mountains - has the lowest
> overall unemployment rate in the nation. The region hit an all-time
> low of 3.4 percent in May.
>
> The effects are everywhere. Logging equipment in Idaho sits idle as
> companies have a tough time finding workers. A shortage of lifeguards
> has forced Helena to shorten hours at children-only pools. A local
> paper in Jackson, Wyo., has page after page of help wanted ads.
>
> In Jackson Hole, the Four Seasons Resort still had openings in late
> July) The problem has created longer hours and tougher working
> conditions for current employees.
>
> For years, the resort has imported dozens of workers from Eastern
> Europe who often come as much for the summer recreation opportunity as
> the money. This year, however, that wasn't enough and so for the first
> time the resort also sent recruiters to a high school job fair, said
> spokeswoman Greer Terry. It only helped a little.
>
> "It's been a struggle finding employees this summer," Terry said.
>
> Economists say there are a number of reasons why parts of the West are
> feeling the labor pinch.
>
> Established baby boomers, including retirees, have been moving into
> Montana for the mountain views and recreation, bringing with them
> money for new homes that fuel construction job growth, said Swanson.
>
> Along the way, younger people have moved away searching for bigger
> paychecks as the state's wages still lag behind other areas and are
> slowly increasing overall. Now, the aging work force is unable to
> expand to meet the demands of the job market, Swanson said.
>
> He said the problem is compounded by the fact that employers,
> accustomed to paying relatively low wages, have been slow to increase
> salaries. Montana wages have historically been among the lowest in the
> country, and still rank near the bottom. The silver lining for workers
> is that wages are now growing at the third-fastest rate among U.S.
> states.
>
> Now, workers with more options in some places are unwilling to take
> $12-an-hour jobs.
>
> The problem could get worse as more baby boomers retire, Swanson said.
> By 2030, Montana and Wyoming are predicted to have among the oldest
> populations in the U.S, with about 26 percent of residents 65 and
> older, Swanson said. That compares to 19.7 percent predicted
> nationally.
>
> "We thought the labor force crunch wouldn't come until 2012, but it's
> already arrived in a lot of these fast-growth areas," Swanson said. As
> a result, "you'll find older workers working longer, people will sort
> of linger in the work force. The employers will make it worth their
> time to."
>
> Swanson added the phenomenon of quasi-retirement with older workers
> cutting back on hours but still heading to the office will grow, while
> international workers will be drawn to the region. Younger workers who
> used to leave will find it worth their while to stay.
>
> "The squeeze is on. You get into these 2 percent and less unemployment
> rates and you're moving into a seller's market with the seller being
> the worker," Swanson said.
>
> Officials worry the razor thin labor market could bind economic
> growth, although there has been no indication of that yet.
>
> "One of the reasons we are seeing the lower (unemployment) rates is we
> are starting to see more investment in our economy. It's like finding
> an undervalued stock," said Tyler Turner, Montana's economic
> development chief.
>
> In Helena, the pool of applicants has been shrinking even for jobs on
> the police force. For professional jobs, such as department managers,
> the city is considering hiring slightly underqualified people that can
> be trained on the job.
>
> "This is the tightest market I have ever seen," said Salty Payne, who
> has worked in the Helena City human resource office for 15 years.
>
> Payne in part blames the area's building boom, which is drawing
> workers to construction trades that are offering higher salaries.
>
> Montana state lawmaker Art Noonan lives in the mining town of Butte -
> the epicenter of a big mining bust 20 years ago. Now, more people are
> moving in to build second homes and high paying jobs are coming back
> as copper prices go up.
>
> "All of these things are sort of clicking at the same time," Noonan
> said. "The only economic development we used to get was the creation
> of more economic development offices."
>
> In Utah - where unemployment rates have been hovering around 2.5
> percent - amusement parks, trucking companies, telemarketing firms and
> others have been paying bonuses of hundreds of dollars or more to find
> workers.
>
> "It boils down to the attractiveness of the (interior) West," said
> Mark Knold, chief economist at the Utah Department of Workforce
> Services. "It is a population magnet."
>
> And workers have benefited. Utah workers saw a 5.4 percent average
> wage increase in 2006, Knold said.
>
> But questions remain about how long the West can weather the problems
> that come with low unemployment.
>
> "The hardest thing is to keep the economy growing at a strong rate
> when you have a low unemployment rate," he said. "Take a company that
> wants to expand. Where is the next worker going to come from?"


Also...with all the high paying jobs Bush created, why is it that so
many people can't afford to make the trip across country? Especially
at McJob or Wal-Mart wages. They can't even live hand to mouth.
Besides, I haven't heard a thing about perspective employers willing
to relocate perspective employees. That article sounds more like
typical bullshit espoused by your every day, normal Bush worshipper.
 
On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:09:28 -0400, djw <wells.family@insightbb.com>
wrote:

>Now this seems a bit counter-intuitive. I read things here daily that
>say under Bush people have fallen on hard times and job oppurtunities
>have dried up.
>
>And that he has wrecked the economy and that the employment figures
>are misleading because of the disheartened people who have just given
>up on a job and now live under highway bridges.
>
>And that we should ignore the supposed facts and instead listen to the
>anecdotal evidence that only liberals seem to hear.
>
>I dunno. Maybe those people just aren't trying hard enough?
>
>
>Help Wanted Ads Go Unanswered in West
> Aug 25, 8:26 AM (ET)
>By MATT GOURAS
>
>http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070825/D8R820QO0.html
>HELENA, Mont. (AP) - The owner of a fast food joint in Montana's
>booming oil patch found himself outsourcing the drive-thru window to a
>Texas telemarketing firm, not because it's cheaper but because he
>can't find workers.
>

Why work at a low paying job when you live in an oil boom economy?


>Record low unemployment across parts of the West has created tough
>working conditions for business owners, who in places are being forced
>to boost wages or be creative to fill their jobs.
>
>John Francis, who owns the McDonald's in Sidney, Mont., said he tried
>advertising in the local newspaper and even offered up to $10 an hour
>to compete with higher-paying oil field jobs. Yet the only calls were
>from other business owners upset they would have to raise wages, too.
>Of course, Francis' current employees also wanted a pay hike.
>
>"I don't know what the answer is," Francis said. "There's just nobody
>around that wants to work."
>
>Unemployment rates have been as low as 2 percent this year in places
>like Montana, and nearly as low in neighboring states. Economists cite
>such factors as an aging work force and booming tourism economies for
>the tight labor market.
>
>For places like Montana, it has been a steady climb in the nearly two
>decades since the timber and mining industry recession. The state
>approached double-digit unemployment levels in the 1980s and began the
>slow crawl back in the early 1990s.
>
>"This is actually the biggest economic story of our time, and we don't
>quite grasp it because it is 15 years in the making," said economist
>Larry Swanson, director of the O'Connor Center for the Rocky Mountain
>West at the University of Montana.
>
>The U.S. Department of Labor reports the mountain West region -
>covering eight states along the Rocky Mountains - has the lowest
>overall unemployment rate in the nation. The region hit an all-time
>low of 3.4 percent in May.
>
>The effects are everywhere. Logging equipment in Idaho sits idle as
>companies have a tough time finding workers. A shortage of lifeguards
>has forced Helena to shorten hours at children-only pools. A local
>paper in Jackson, Wyo., has page after page of help wanted ads.
>
>In Jackson Hole, the Four Seasons Resort still had openings in late
>July) The problem has created longer hours and tougher working
>conditions for current employees.
>
>For years, the resort has imported dozens of workers from Eastern
>Europe who often come as much for the summer recreation opportunity as
>the money. This year, however, that wasn't enough and so for the first
>time the resort also sent recruiters to a high school job fair, said
>spokeswoman Greer Terry. It only helped a little.
>
>"It's been a struggle finding employees this summer," Terry said.
>
>Economists say there are a number of reasons why parts of the West are
>feeling the labor pinch.
>
>Established baby boomers, including retirees, have been moving into
>Montana for the mountain views and recreation, bringing with them
>money for new homes that fuel construction job growth, said Swanson.
>
>Along the way, younger people have moved away searching for bigger
>paychecks as the state's wages still lag behind other areas and are
>slowly increasing overall. Now, the aging work force is unable to
>expand to meet the demands of the job market, Swanson said.
>
>He said the problem is compounded by the fact that employers,
>accustomed to paying relatively low wages, have been slow to increase
>salaries. Montana wages have historically been among the lowest in the
>country, and still rank near the bottom. The silver lining for workers
>is that wages are now growing at the third-fastest rate among U.S.
>states.
>
>Now, workers with more options in some places are unwilling to take
>$12-an-hour jobs.
>
>The problem could get worse as more baby boomers retire, Swanson said.
>By 2030, Montana and Wyoming are predicted to have among the oldest
>populations in the U.S, with about 26 percent of residents 65 and
>older, Swanson said. That compares to 19.7 percent predicted
>nationally.
>
>"We thought the labor force crunch wouldn't come until 2012, but it's
>already arrived in a lot of these fast-growth areas," Swanson said. As
>a result, "you'll find older workers working longer, people will sort
>of linger in the work force. The employers will make it worth their
>time to."
>
>Swanson added the phenomenon of quasi-retirement with older workers
>cutting back on hours but still heading to the office will grow, while
>international workers will be drawn to the region. Younger workers who
>used to leave will find it worth their while to stay.
>
>"The squeeze is on. You get into these 2 percent and less unemployment
>rates and you're moving into a seller's market with the seller being
>the worker," Swanson said.
>
>Officials worry the razor thin labor market could bind economic
>growth, although there has been no indication of that yet.
>
>"One of the reasons we are seeing the lower (unemployment) rates is we
>are starting to see more investment in our economy. It's like finding
>an undervalued stock," said Tyler Turner, Montana's economic
>development chief.
>
>In Helena, the pool of applicants has been shrinking even for jobs on
>the police force. For professional jobs, such as department managers,
>the city is considering hiring slightly underqualified people that can
>be trained on the job.
>
>"This is the tightest market I have ever seen," said Salty Payne, who
>has worked in the Helena City human resource office for 15 years.
>
>Payne in part blames the area's building boom, which is drawing
>workers to construction trades that are offering higher salaries.
>
>Montana state lawmaker Art Noonan lives in the mining town of Butte -
>the epicenter of a big mining bust 20 years ago. Now, more people are
>moving in to build second homes and high paying jobs are coming back
>as copper prices go up.
>
>"All of these things are sort of clicking at the same time," Noonan
>said. "The only economic development we used to get was the creation
>of more economic development offices."
>
>In Utah - where unemployment rates have been hovering around 2.5
>percent - amusement parks, trucking companies, telemarketing firms and
>others have been paying bonuses of hundreds of dollars or more to find
>workers.
>
>"It boils down to the attractiveness of the (interior) West," said
>Mark Knold, chief economist at the Utah Department of Workforce
>Services. "It is a population magnet."
>
>And workers have benefited. Utah workers saw a 5.4 percent average
>wage increase in 2006, Knold said.
>
>But questions remain about how long the West can weather the problems
>that come with low unemployment.
>
>"The hardest thing is to keep the economy growing at a strong rate
>when you have a low unemployment rate," he said. "Take a company that
>wants to expand. Where is the next worker going to come from?"
>


--
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. -- Marcus Aurelius

Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
 
On Aug 25, 12:09 pm, djw <wells.fam...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> Now this seems a bit counter-intuitive. I read things here daily that
> say under Bush people have fallen on hard times and job oppurtunities
> have dried up.
>
> And that he has wrecked the economy and that the employment figures
> are misleading because of the disheartened people who have just given
> up on a job and now live under highway bridges.
>
> And that we should ignore the supposed facts and instead listen to the
> anecdotal evidence that only liberals seem to hear.
>
> I dunno. Maybe those people just aren't trying hard enough?
>
> Help Wanted Ads Go Unanswered in West
> Aug 25, 8:26 AM (ET)
> By MATT GOURAS
>


Why would people turn down good jobs at good wages? Sure, there may
be a few towns here and there where they don't have enough workers,
but people may not know about them, or be in a position to travel to
them.

Another point: pensions and benefits. Why work if you know you are
going to starve when you're old? Why work if you know you'll be
bankrupted if you get sick?
 
"djw" <wells.family@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:r1o0d3l98sv37i0n55eialofd36ee7ctb4@4ax.com...
> Now this seems a bit counter-intuitive. I read things here daily that
> say under Bush people have fallen on hard times and job oppurtunities
> have dried up.
>
> And that he has wrecked the economy and that the employment figures
> are misleading because of the disheartened people who have just given
> up on a job and now live under highway bridges.
>
> And that we should ignore the supposed facts and instead listen to the
> anecdotal evidence that only liberals seem to hear.
>
> I dunno. Maybe those people just aren't trying hard enough?


Have you ever heard of the baby-boomers starting to retire 'en mass'? - This
process is threatening to reverse the unemployment problem. In fact, the
reversing has already started both in the West and in the East. Employers
are finding it increasingly difficult to find qualified candidates able to
replace the retiring baby-boomers. Not to worry, though. The coming stock
market crash 1929-style and the subsequent multi-year recession will lead to
many companies closing their doors forever and the job market will be
replenished with new millions of job-seekers.

>
> Help Wanted Ads Go Unanswered in West
> Aug 25, 8:26 AM (ET)
> By MATT GOURAS
>
> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070825/D8R820QO0.html
> HELENA, Mont. (AP) - The owner of a fast food joint in Montana's
> booming oil patch found himself outsourcing the drive-thru window to a
> Texas telemarketing firm, not because it's cheaper but because he
> can't find workers.
>
> Record low unemployment across parts of the West has created tough
> working conditions for business owners, who in places are being forced
> to boost wages or be creative to fill their jobs.
>
> John Francis, who owns the McDonald's in Sidney, Mont., said he tried
> advertising in the local newspaper and even offered up to $10 an hour
> to compete with higher-paying oil field jobs. Yet the only calls were
> from other business owners upset they would have to raise wages, too.
> Of course, Francis' current employees also wanted a pay hike.
>
> "I don't know what the answer is," Francis said. "There's just nobody
> around that wants to work."
>
> Unemployment rates have been as low as 2 percent this year in places
> like Montana, and nearly as low in neighboring states. Economists cite
> such factors as an aging work force and booming tourism economies for
> the tight labor market.
>
> For places like Montana, it has been a steady climb in the nearly two
> decades since the timber and mining industry recession. The state
> approached double-digit unemployment levels in the 1980s and began the
> slow crawl back in the early 1990s.
>
> "This is actually the biggest economic story of our time, and we don't
> quite grasp it because it is 15 years in the making," said economist
> Larry Swanson, director of the O'Connor Center for the Rocky Mountain
> West at the University of Montana.
>
> The U.S. Department of Labor reports the mountain West region -
> covering eight states along the Rocky Mountains - has the lowest
> overall unemployment rate in the nation. The region hit an all-time
> low of 3.4 percent in May.
>
> The effects are everywhere. Logging equipment in Idaho sits idle as
> companies have a tough time finding workers. A shortage of lifeguards
> has forced Helena to shorten hours at children-only pools. A local
> paper in Jackson, Wyo., has page after page of help wanted ads.
>
> In Jackson Hole, the Four Seasons Resort still had openings in late
> July) The problem has created longer hours and tougher working
> conditions for current employees.
>
> For years, the resort has imported dozens of workers from Eastern
> Europe who often come as much for the summer recreation opportunity as
> the money. This year, however, that wasn't enough and so for the first
> time the resort also sent recruiters to a high school job fair, said
> spokeswoman Greer Terry. It only helped a little.
>
> "It's been a struggle finding employees this summer," Terry said.
>
> Economists say there are a number of reasons why parts of the West are
> feeling the labor pinch.
>
> Established baby boomers, including retirees, have been moving into
> Montana for the mountain views and recreation, bringing with them
> money for new homes that fuel construction job growth, said Swanson.
>
> Along the way, younger people have moved away searching for bigger
> paychecks as the state's wages still lag behind other areas and are
> slowly increasing overall. Now, the aging work force is unable to
> expand to meet the demands of the job market, Swanson said.
>
> He said the problem is compounded by the fact that employers,
> accustomed to paying relatively low wages, have been slow to increase
> salaries. Montana wages have historically been among the lowest in the
> country, and still rank near the bottom. The silver lining for workers
> is that wages are now growing at the third-fastest rate among U.S.
> states.
>
> Now, workers with more options in some places are unwilling to take
> $12-an-hour jobs.
>
> The problem could get worse as more baby boomers retire, Swanson said.
> By 2030, Montana and Wyoming are predicted to have among the oldest
> populations in the U.S, with about 26 percent of residents 65 and
> older, Swanson said. That compares to 19.7 percent predicted
> nationally.
>
> "We thought the labor force crunch wouldn't come until 2012, but it's
> already arrived in a lot of these fast-growth areas," Swanson said. As
> a result, "you'll find older workers working longer, people will sort
> of linger in the work force. The employers will make it worth their
> time to."
>
> Swanson added the phenomenon of quasi-retirement with older workers
> cutting back on hours but still heading to the office will grow, while
> international workers will be drawn to the region. Younger workers who
> used to leave will find it worth their while to stay.
>
> "The squeeze is on. You get into these 2 percent and less unemployment
> rates and you're moving into a seller's market with the seller being
> the worker," Swanson said.
>
> Officials worry the razor thin labor market could bind economic
> growth, although there has been no indication of that yet.
>
> "One of the reasons we are seeing the lower (unemployment) rates is we
> are starting to see more investment in our economy. It's like finding
> an undervalued stock," said Tyler Turner, Montana's economic
> development chief.
>
> In Helena, the pool of applicants has been shrinking even for jobs on
> the police force. For professional jobs, such as department managers,
> the city is considering hiring slightly underqualified people that can
> be trained on the job.
>
> "This is the tightest market I have ever seen," said Salty Payne, who
> has worked in the Helena City human resource office for 15 years.
>
> Payne in part blames the area's building boom, which is drawing
> workers to construction trades that are offering higher salaries.
>
> Montana state lawmaker Art Noonan lives in the mining town of Butte -
> the epicenter of a big mining bust 20 years ago. Now, more people are
> moving in to build second homes and high paying jobs are coming back
> as copper prices go up.
>
> "All of these things are sort of clicking at the same time," Noonan
> said. "The only economic development we used to get was the creation
> of more economic development offices."
>
> In Utah - where unemployment rates have been hovering around 2.5
> percent - amusement parks, trucking companies, telemarketing firms and
> others have been paying bonuses of hundreds of dollars or more to find
> workers.
>
> "It boils down to the attractiveness of the (interior) West," said
> Mark Knold, chief economist at the Utah Department of Workforce
> Services. "It is a population magnet."
>
> And workers have benefited. Utah workers saw a 5.4 percent average
> wage increase in 2006, Knold said.
>
> But questions remain about how long the West can weather the problems
> that come with low unemployment.
>
> "The hardest thing is to keep the economy growing at a strong rate
> when you have a low unemployment rate," he said. "Take a company that
> wants to expand. Where is the next worker going to come from?"
>
>





----== Posted via Newsgroups.com - Usenet Access to over 100,000 Newsgroups ==----
Get Anonymous, Uncensored, Access to West and East Coast Server Farms at!
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On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:29:20 -0700, Igor The Terrible
<igor_the_terrible@mad.scientist.com> wrote:

>On Aug 25, 1:09 pm, djw <wells.fam...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>> Now this seems a bit counter-intuitive. I read things here daily that
>> say under Bush people have fallen on hard times and job oppurtunities
>> have dried up.
>>
>> And that he has wrecked the economy and that the employment figures
>> are misleading because of the disheartened people who have just given
>> up on a job and now live under highway bridges.
>>
>> And that we should ignore the supposed facts and instead listen to the
>> anecdotal evidence that only liberals seem to hear.
>>
>> I dunno. Maybe those people just aren't trying hard enough?
>>
>> Help Wanted Ads Go Unanswered in West
>> Aug 25, 8:26 AM (ET)
>> By MATT GOURAS
>>
>> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070825/D8R820QO0.html
>> HELENA, Mont. (AP) - The owner of a fast food joint in Montana's
>> booming oil patch found himself outsourcing the drive-thru window to a
>> Texas telemarketing firm, not because it's cheaper but because he
>> can't find workers.
>>
>> Record low unemployment across parts of the West has created tough
>> working conditions for business owners, who in places are being forced
>> to boost wages or be creative to fill their jobs.
>>
>> John Francis, who owns the McDonald's in Sidney, Mont., said he tried
>> advertising in the local newspaper and even offered up to $10 an hour
>> to compete with higher-paying oil field jobs. Yet the only calls were
>> from other business owners upset they would have to raise wages, too.
>> Of course, Francis' current employees also wanted a pay hike.
>>
>> "I don't know what the answer is," Francis said. "There's just nobody
>> around that wants to work."
>>
>> Unemployment rates have been as low as 2 percent this year in places
>> like Montana, and nearly as low in neighboring states. Economists cite
>> such factors as an aging work force and booming tourism economies for
>> the tight labor market.
>>
>> For places like Montana, it has been a steady climb in the nearly two
>> decades since the timber and mining industry recession. The state
>> approached double-digit unemployment levels in the 1980s and began the
>> slow crawl back in the early 1990s.
>>
>> "This is actually the biggest economic story of our time, and we don't
>> quite grasp it because it is 15 years in the making," said economist
>> Larry Swanson, director of the O'Connor Center for the Rocky Mountain
>> West at the University of Montana.
>>
>> The U.S. Department of Labor reports the mountain West region -
>> covering eight states along the Rocky Mountains - has the lowest
>> overall unemployment rate in the nation. The region hit an all-time
>> low of 3.4 percent in May.
>>
>> The effects are everywhere. Logging equipment in Idaho sits idle as
>> companies have a tough time finding workers. A shortage of lifeguards
>> has forced Helena to shorten hours at children-only pools. A local
>> paper in Jackson, Wyo., has page after page of help wanted ads.
>>
>> In Jackson Hole, the Four Seasons Resort still had openings in late
>> July) The problem has created longer hours and tougher working
>> conditions for current employees.
>>
>> For years, the resort has imported dozens of workers from Eastern
>> Europe who often come as much for the summer recreation opportunity as
>> the money. This year, however, that wasn't enough and so for the first
>> time the resort also sent recruiters to a high school job fair, said
>> spokeswoman Greer Terry. It only helped a little.
>>
>> "It's been a struggle finding employees this summer," Terry said.
>>
>> Economists say there are a number of reasons why parts of the West are
>> feeling the labor pinch.
>>
>> Established baby boomers, including retirees, have been moving into
>> Montana for the mountain views and recreation, bringing with them
>> money for new homes that fuel construction job growth, said Swanson.
>>
>> Along the way, younger people have moved away searching for bigger
>> paychecks as the state's wages still lag behind other areas and are
>> slowly increasing overall. Now, the aging work force is unable to
>> expand to meet the demands of the job market, Swanson said.
>>
>> He said the problem is compounded by the fact that employers,
>> accustomed to paying relatively low wages, have been slow to increase
>> salaries. Montana wages have historically been among the lowest in the
>> country, and still rank near the bottom. The silver lining for workers
>> is that wages are now growing at the third-fastest rate among U.S.
>> states.
>>
>> Now, workers with more options in some places are unwilling to take
>> $12-an-hour jobs.
>>
>> The problem could get worse as more baby boomers retire, Swanson said.
>> By 2030, Montana and Wyoming are predicted to have among the oldest
>> populations in the U.S, with about 26 percent of residents 65 and
>> older, Swanson said. That compares to 19.7 percent predicted
>> nationally.
>>
>> "We thought the labor force crunch wouldn't come until 2012, but it's
>> already arrived in a lot of these fast-growth areas," Swanson said. As
>> a result, "you'll find older workers working longer, people will sort
>> of linger in the work force. The employers will make it worth their
>> time to."
>>
>> Swanson added the phenomenon of quasi-retirement with older workers
>> cutting back on hours but still heading to the office will grow, while
>> international workers will be drawn to the region. Younger workers who
>> used to leave will find it worth their while to stay.
>>
>> "The squeeze is on. You get into these 2 percent and less unemployment
>> rates and you're moving into a seller's market with the seller being
>> the worker," Swanson said.
>>
>> Officials worry the razor thin labor market could bind economic
>> growth, although there has been no indication of that yet.
>>
>> "One of the reasons we are seeing the lower (unemployment) rates is we
>> are starting to see more investment in our economy. It's like finding
>> an undervalued stock," said Tyler Turner, Montana's economic
>> development chief.
>>
>> In Helena, the pool of applicants has been shrinking even for jobs on
>> the police force. For professional jobs, such as department managers,
>> the city is considering hiring slightly underqualified people that can
>> be trained on the job.
>>
>> "This is the tightest market I have ever seen," said Salty Payne, who
>> has worked in the Helena City human resource office for 15 years.
>>
>> Payne in part blames the area's building boom, which is drawing
>> workers to construction trades that are offering higher salaries.
>>
>> Montana state lawmaker Art Noonan lives in the mining town of Butte -
>> the epicenter of a big mining bust 20 years ago. Now, more people are
>> moving in to build second homes and high paying jobs are coming back
>> as copper prices go up.
>>
>> "All of these things are sort of clicking at the same time," Noonan
>> said. "The only economic development we used to get was the creation
>> of more economic development offices."
>>
>> In Utah - where unemployment rates have been hovering around 2.5
>> percent - amusement parks, trucking companies, telemarketing firms and
>> others have been paying bonuses of hundreds of dollars or more to find
>> workers.
>>
>> "It boils down to the attractiveness of the (interior) West," said
>> Mark Knold, chief economist at the Utah Department of Workforce
>> Services. "It is a population magnet."
>>
>> And workers have benefited. Utah workers saw a 5.4 percent average
>> wage increase in 2006, Knold said.
>>
>> But questions remain about how long the West can weather the problems
>> that come with low unemployment.
>>
>> "The hardest thing is to keep the economy growing at a strong rate
>> when you have a low unemployment rate," he said. "Take a company that
>> wants to expand. Where is the next worker going to come from?"

>
>Pay a decent wage and they will come.

Decent's got nothing to do with it. Although your point is well-taken
that the wage evidently isn't high enough yet as the market seems to
demand in that region.

>How much is a decent wage?

It's so subjective who cares?

>Pay
>yourself what you plan to pay your employee; live off it and pay all
>the bills and still put away a modest chunk of change way for
>retirement. That would be ball park.


These are low-skilled jobs. They're doing the correct thing dangling
out small bait to start with although I agree with you they're going
to have to start jacking it up to see where the bottom is.

I don't agree with your goofy assumption that an employer needs to
provide a career path and retirement plan to a teenage fry-cook. The
frying's not ever going to get more complicated.

If he/she wants to move up in life they can be an optimum level
fry-cook and use that to advance to a management or training role
that requires higher skills and knowledge. That's where the
retirement plan and career path ought to be offered.
 
On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:37:04 -0700, Igor The Terrible
<igor_the_terrible@mad.scientist.com> wrote:

>On Aug 25, 1:09 pm, djw <wells.fam...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>> Now this seems a bit counter-intuitive. I read things here daily that
>> say under Bush people have fallen on hard times and job oppurtunities
>> have dried up.
>>
>> And that he has wrecked the economy and that the employment figures
>> are misleading because of the disheartened people who have just given
>> up on a job and now live under highway bridges.
>>
>> And that we should ignore the supposed facts and instead listen to the
>> anecdotal evidence that only liberals seem to hear.
>>
>> I dunno. Maybe those people just aren't trying hard enough?
>>
>> Help Wanted Ads Go Unanswered in West
>> Aug 25, 8:26 AM (ET)
>> By MATT GOURAS
>>
>> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070825/D8R820QO0.html
>> HELENA, Mont. (AP) - The owner of a fast food joint in Montana's
>> booming oil patch found himself outsourcing the drive-thru window to a
>> Texas telemarketing firm, not because it's cheaper but because he
>> can't find workers.
>>
>> Record low unemployment across parts of the West has created tough
>> working conditions for business owners, who in places are being forced
>> to boost wages or be creative to fill their jobs.
>>
>> John Francis, who owns the McDonald's in Sidney, Mont., said he tried
>> advertising in the local newspaper and even offered up to $10 an hour
>> to compete with higher-paying oil field jobs. Yet the only calls were
>> from other business owners upset they would have to raise wages, too.
>> Of course, Francis' current employees also wanted a pay hike.
>>
>> "I don't know what the answer is," Francis said. "There's just nobody
>> around that wants to work."
>>
>> Unemployment rates have been as low as 2 percent this year in places
>> like Montana, and nearly as low in neighboring states. Economists cite
>> such factors as an aging work force and booming tourism economies for
>> the tight labor market.
>>
>> For places like Montana, it has been a steady climb in the nearly two
>> decades since the timber and mining industry recession. The state
>> approached double-digit unemployment levels in the 1980s and began the
>> slow crawl back in the early 1990s.
>>
>> "This is actually the biggest economic story of our time, and we don't
>> quite grasp it because it is 15 years in the making," said economist
>> Larry Swanson, director of the O'Connor Center for the Rocky Mountain
>> West at the University of Montana.
>>
>> The U.S. Department of Labor reports the mountain West region -
>> covering eight states along the Rocky Mountains - has the lowest
>> overall unemployment rate in the nation. The region hit an all-time
>> low of 3.4 percent in May.
>>
>> The effects are everywhere. Logging equipment in Idaho sits idle as
>> companies have a tough time finding workers. A shortage of lifeguards
>> has forced Helena to shorten hours at children-only pools. A local
>> paper in Jackson, Wyo., has page after page of help wanted ads.
>>
>> In Jackson Hole, the Four Seasons Resort still had openings in late
>> July) The problem has created longer hours and tougher working
>> conditions for current employees.
>>
>> For years, the resort has imported dozens of workers from Eastern
>> Europe who often come as much for the summer recreation opportunity as
>> the money. This year, however, that wasn't enough and so for the first
>> time the resort also sent recruiters to a high school job fair, said
>> spokeswoman Greer Terry. It only helped a little.
>>
>> "It's been a struggle finding employees this summer," Terry said.
>>
>> Economists say there are a number of reasons why parts of the West are
>> feeling the labor pinch.
>>
>> Established baby boomers, including retirees, have been moving into
>> Montana for the mountain views and recreation, bringing with them
>> money for new homes that fuel construction job growth, said Swanson.
>>
>> Along the way, younger people have moved away searching for bigger
>> paychecks as the state's wages still lag behind other areas and are
>> slowly increasing overall. Now, the aging work force is unable to
>> expand to meet the demands of the job market, Swanson said.
>>
>> He said the problem is compounded by the fact that employers,
>> accustomed to paying relatively low wages, have been slow to increase
>> salaries. Montana wages have historically been among the lowest in the
>> country, and still rank near the bottom. The silver lining for workers
>> is that wages are now growing at the third-fastest rate among U.S.
>> states.
>>
>> Now, workers with more options in some places are unwilling to take
>> $12-an-hour jobs.
>>
>> The problem could get worse as more baby boomers retire, Swanson said.
>> By 2030, Montana and Wyoming are predicted to have among the oldest
>> populations in the U.S, with about 26 percent of residents 65 and
>> older, Swanson said. That compares to 19.7 percent predicted
>> nationally.
>>
>> "We thought the labor force crunch wouldn't come until 2012, but it's
>> already arrived in a lot of these fast-growth areas," Swanson said. As
>> a result, "you'll find older workers working longer, people will sort
>> of linger in the work force. The employers will make it worth their
>> time to."
>>
>> Swanson added the phenomenon of quasi-retirement with older workers
>> cutting back on hours but still heading to the office will grow, while
>> international workers will be drawn to the region. Younger workers who
>> used to leave will find it worth their while to stay.
>>
>> "The squeeze is on. You get into these 2 percent and less unemployment
>> rates and you're moving into a seller's market with the seller being
>> the worker," Swanson said.
>>
>> Officials worry the razor thin labor market could bind economic
>> growth, although there has been no indication of that yet.
>>
>> "One of the reasons we are seeing the lower (unemployment) rates is we
>> are starting to see more investment in our economy. It's like finding
>> an undervalued stock," said Tyler Turner, Montana's economic
>> development chief.
>>
>> In Helena, the pool of applicants has been shrinking even for jobs on
>> the police force. For professional jobs, such as department managers,
>> the city is considering hiring slightly underqualified people that can
>> be trained on the job.
>>
>> "This is the tightest market I have ever seen," said Salty Payne, who
>> has worked in the Helena City human resource office for 15 years.
>>
>> Payne in part blames the area's building boom, which is drawing
>> workers to construction trades that are offering higher salaries.
>>
>> Montana state lawmaker Art Noonan lives in the mining town of Butte -
>> the epicenter of a big mining bust 20 years ago. Now, more people are
>> moving in to build second homes and high paying jobs are coming back
>> as copper prices go up.
>>
>> "All of these things are sort of clicking at the same time," Noonan
>> said. "The only economic development we used to get was the creation
>> of more economic development offices."
>>
>> In Utah - where unemployment rates have been hovering around 2.5
>> percent - amusement parks, trucking companies, telemarketing firms and
>> others have been paying bonuses of hundreds of dollars or more to find
>> workers.
>>
>> "It boils down to the attractiveness of the (interior) West," said
>> Mark Knold, chief economist at the Utah Department of Workforce
>> Services. "It is a population magnet."
>>
>> And workers have benefited. Utah workers saw a 5.4 percent average
>> wage increase in 2006, Knold said.
>>
>> But questions remain about how long the West can weather the problems
>> that come with low unemployment.
>>
>> "The hardest thing is to keep the economy growing at a strong rate
>> when you have a low unemployment rate," he said. "Take a company that
>> wants to expand. Where is the next worker going to come from?"

>
>Also...with all the high paying jobs Bush created, why is it that so
>many people can't afford to make the trip across country?

Maybe they didn't know until the article. Did you know before the
article?

Besides who migrates to take a fast-food or other low-skilled job?

>Especially
>at McJob or Wal-Mart wages. They can't even live hand to mouth.
>Besides, I haven't heard a thing about perspective employers willing
>to relocate perspective employees. That article sounds more like
>typical bullshit espoused by your every day, normal Bush worshipper.


Why would an Associated Press reporter worship Bush?
 
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