Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed The Bible

>

> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>

> I would also state that you don't know either.

At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

Apostles appealed

to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

At least I know that Paul made the same point during the jewish

council.

At least I know that the author of the Qur'an made the same claim.

At least I know from the Jewish Oracle that the Messiah had to be born

into the world.

At least I know from the Testimonies of the Apostles that Jesus fits

the description

of whom the previous talked about. Act of the Apostles

So are you telling me that you read the whole "New Testament" without

coming

across this? Hmmmmmmmm.... You may have reading comprehension problem.

So do all evol-atheist-secular jerks.

>

> earle

> - Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

"Codebreaker@bigsecret.com" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in

news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

>>

>> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

>> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>>

>> I would also state that you don't know either.

>

>

> At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

> Apostles appealed

> to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

> At least I know that Paul made the same point during the jewish

> council.

> At least I know that the author of the Qur'an made the same claim.

> At least I know from the Jewish Oracle that the Messiah had to be born

> into the world.

> At least I know from the Testimonies of the Apostles that Jesus fits

> the description

> of whom the previous talked about. Act of the Apostles

> So are you telling me that you read the whole "New Testament" without

> coming

> across this? Hmmmmmmmm.... You may have reading comprehension problem.

> So do all evol-atheist-secular jerks.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com

--

Uncle Vic

aa Atheist #2011

Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped

chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department

Convicted by Earthquack

Plonked by Fester

<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

>> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>>

>> I would also state that you don't know either.

>

>

> At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

> Apostles appealed

> to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles. Reading

something in "a bible" means nothing.

<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

>> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>>

>> I would also state that you don't know either.

>

>

> At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

> Apostles appealed

> to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

> At least I know that Paul made the same point during the jewish

> council.

> At least I know that the author of the Qur'an made the same claim.

> At least I know from the Jewish Oracle that the Messiah had to be born

> into the world.

> At least I know from the Testimonies of the Apostles that Jesus fits

> the description

> of whom the previous talked about. Act of the Apostles

> So are you telling me that you read the whole "New Testament" without

> coming

> across this? Hmmmmmmmm.... You may have reading comprehension problem.

> So do all evol-atheist-secular jerks.

>

The critical thing you apparently do not know is that the Bibles are nothing

more than an odd collection

of myths, fables and implausible tales.

The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,

human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction,

barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and

certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally

untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.

The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in

existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are

available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable

veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the

invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were

supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They

are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And

the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's

belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone

and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the

originals.

And there is no evidence that even the originals are facts instead of

fiction.

They are books of nonsense - no more authentic than Aesop's Fables, Alice in

Wonderland, the

Wizard of Oz and The Harry Potter tales.

On Feb 12, 4:27 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>

> news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>

> >>

> >> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

> >> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>

> >> I would also state that you don't know either.

>

> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

> > Apostles appealed

> > to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

>

> Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

> questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles. Reading

> something in "a bible" means nothing.

Our book was written by Christians for Christians

Those for whom it was written did not have any problem with its

content. This book did not fall from the sky to make convert among

atheists. It was written by believers for believers. We understand why

you guys missed all the points and issues debated in it

On 12 Feb 2007 16:30:56 -0800, in alt.atheism

"codebreaker@bigsecret.com" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in

<1171326655.975285.74490@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>:

>On Feb 12, 4:27 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> >>

>> >> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

>> >> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>>

>> >> I would also state that you don't know either.

>>

>> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

>> > Apostles appealed

>> > to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

>>

>> Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

>> questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles. Reading

>> something in "a bible" means nothing.

>

> Our book was written by Christians for Christians

> Those for whom it was written did not have any problem with its

>content. This book did not fall from the sky to make convert among

>atheists.

Then why are so many Christians obsessed with evangelizing. Would it not

be easier to spread the Gospel if you didn't use a Bible that had

identifiable errors and did not teach religious doctrines that are

contrary to reality?

>It was written by believers for believers. We understand why

>you guys missed all the points and issues debated in it

Then you need to talk to the Christians who misuse the Bible in the way

you claim it isn't used. Good luck with that.

codebreaker@bigsecret.com wrote:

> On Feb 12, 4:27 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>>

>>>>

>>>> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

>>>> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>>>> I would also state that you don't know either.

>>> At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

>>> Apostles appealed

>>> to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

>> Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

>> questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles. Reading

>> something in "a bible" means nothing.

>

> Our book was written by Christians for Christians

> Those for whom it was written did not have any problem with its

> content. This book did not fall from the sky to make convert among

> atheists. It was written by believers for believers. We understand why

> you guys missed all the points and issues debated in it

>

>

Then talk to yourselves and leave everyone else the hell alone.

Either the Bible is:

(A) credible, substantiated and without contradiction or

(B) a tool for idiots to feel better about death, justify personal

agendas and kill people

What a difficult decision...how could we know?

Oh wait, right, I'm not three years old. Nevermind.

Christians are too afraid to debate at:

http://debate.fgsfds.org/

>> Our book was written by Christians for Christians

>> Those for whom it was written did not have any problem with its

>> content. This book did not fall from the sky to make convert among

>> atheists. It was written by believers for believers.

Yes.. the new testament was.

The old testament was edited and compiled by christians.

Of course, that doesn't make it inerrant of course .. because it was indeed

written by people. It just makes it a useful tool for christians.

Especially as it has so many self-contradictoy passages, that a believer can

find whatever it is they want to find in there. Unfortunately for

believers, non-christians can do the same.

<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote

>

>

> At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts

> of the Apostles appealed to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish

> that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah. At least I know that

> Paul made the same point during the jewish council.

> At least I know that the author of the Qur'an made the

> same claim. At least I know from the Jewish Oracle that

> the Messiah had to be born into the world.

> At least I know from the Testimonies of the Apostles that

> Jesus fits the description of whom the previous talked

> about. Act of the Apostles. So are you telling me that you

> read the whole "New Testament" without coming

> across this? Hmmmmmmmm.... You may have reading

> comprehension problem. So do all evol-atheist-secular

> jerks.

Deuteronomy 18:15

The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet

like me from among you - from your fellow Israelites;

you must listen to him.

No reference to a messiah, a son of God, or to Jesus Christ in this passage.

Moses is merely telling the people that there will be some one else to lead

them after he is gone.

It shows how dishonest the author of the New Testament can be.

--Wax

On Feb 12, 4:27 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>

> news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>

> >>

> >> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

> >> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>

> >> I would also state that you don't know either.

>

> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

> > Apostles appealed

> > to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

>

> Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

> questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles. Reading

> something in "a bible" means nothing.

Now how about reading from the Talmud, the book by Jesus enemies. Try

that.

I don't think anybody in his right mind would question the originality

of the Epistle to Galatians. The Author of the Qur'an, the guy who

analyzed and rebutted the Epistle to Galatians did not think it was

not ORIGINAL otherwise he wouldn't have wasted his time and energy to

rebuke it.

Again OUR BOOK was written by believers and for believers, not for

Atheists. The first Generation of believers did not have a book of New

Testament, yet they all had faith in one Savior that Moses foretold.

The point being that even If the whole New Testament turn out to be

nothing but a junk, Christianity would not die out. Sola Scriptura of

course will die out and not Christianity. FUCK YOU AAALLLLLL

On Feb 12, 10:55 pm, "weatherwax" <weather...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts

> > of the Apostles appealed to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish

> > that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah. At least I know that

> > Paul made the same point during the jewish council.

> > At least I know that the author of the Qur'an made the

> > same claim. At least I know from the Jewish Oracle that

> > the Messiah had to be born into the world.

> > At least I know from the Testimonies of the Apostles that

> > Jesus fits the description of whom the previous talked

> > about. Act of the Apostles. So are you telling me that you

> > read the whole "New Testament" without coming

> > across this? Hmmmmmmmm.... You may have reading

> > comprehension problem. So do all evol-atheist-secular

> > jerks.

>

> Deuteronomy 18:15

> The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet

> like me from among you - from your fellow Israelites;

> you must listen to him.

>

> No reference to a messiah, a son of God, or to Jesus Christ in this passage.

> Moses is merely telling the people that there will be some one else to lead

> them after he is gone.

>

> It shows how dishonest the author of the New Testament can be.

And how dishonest the author of the Qur'an too because it is shown

that he developped in his book this Mosaic pronouncement at lengh.

FUCK YOU AND PLONK AGAIN

>

> --Wax- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

On Feb 12, 8:56 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

> codebrea...@bigsecret.com wrote:

> > On Feb 12, 4:27 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>

> >>news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>

> >>>>

> >>>> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

> >>>> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

> >>>> I would also state that you don't know either.

> >>> At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

> >>> Apostles appealed

> >>> to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

> >> Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

> >> questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles. Reading

> >> something in "a bible" means nothing.

>

> > Our book was written by Christians for Christians

> > Those for whom it was written did not have any problem with its

> > content. This book did not fall from the sky to make convert among

> > atheists. It was written by believers for believers. We understand why

> > you guys missed all the points and issues debated in it

>

> Then talk to yourselves and leave everyone else the hell alone.- Hide quoted text -

Hey Jewish boy, this is not Israel... Why don't you leave

>

> - Show quoted text -

"codebreaker@bigsecret.com" <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

news:1171375553.307650.80700@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...

> On Feb 12, 4:27 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> >>

>> >> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

>> >> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>>

>> >> I would also state that you don't know either.

>>

>> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

>> > Apostles appealed

>> > to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

>>

>> Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

>> questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles.

>> Reading

>> something in "a bible" means nothing.

>

> Now how about reading from the Talmud, the book by Jesus enemies. Try

> that.

I read lots of mythology as a kid, and I don't really have a need to read

any more mythology.

> I don't think anybody in his right mind would question the originality

> of the Epistle to Galatians. The Author of the Qur'an, the guy who

> analyzed and rebutted the Epistle to Galatians did not think it was

> not ORIGINAL otherwise he wouldn't have wasted his time and energy to

> rebuke it.

> Again OUR BOOK was written by believers and for believers, not for

> Atheists.

If you had read the New Testament, you'd know it was written for atheists as

well. Of course you're more of an atheist than I am - I don't profess to

know if any or all "gods" exist, but I'll bet real money that you don't

believe in any god but your own - you're an "atheist" to every god but one.

> The first Generation of believers did not have a book of New

> Testament, yet they all had faith in one Savior that Moses foretold.

Actually they had many faiths.

On Feb 13, 12:33 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "codebrea...@bigsecret.com" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>

> news:1171375553.307650.80700@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...

>

>

>

>

>

> > On Feb 12, 4:27 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>

> >>news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>

> >> >>

> >> >> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

> >> >> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>

> >> >> I would also state that you don't know either.

>

> >> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

> >> > Apostles appealed

> >> > to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

>

> >> Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

> >> questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles.

> >> Reading

> >> something in "a bible" means nothing.

>

> > Now how about reading from the Talmud, the book by Jesus enemies. Try

> > that.

>

> I read lots of mythology as a kid, and I don't really have a need to read

> any more mythology.

>

> > I don't think anybody in his right mind would question the originality

> > of the Epistle to Galatians. The Author of the Qur'an, the guy who

> > analyzed and rebutted the Epistle to Galatians did not think it was

> > not ORIGINAL otherwise he wouldn't have wasted his time and energy to

> > rebuke it.

> > Again OUR BOOK was written by believers and for believers, not for

> > Atheists.

>

> If you had read the New Testament, you'd know it was written for atheists as

> well. Of course you're more of an atheist than I am - I don't profess to

Luke wrote his book for Theophulus so that he may know the veracity of

the teaching

handed down to him.

Through Teopholus it is the whole community of believers who are

concerned

by this book and not the doomed atheists.

MAY YOU PERISH ALL. DOWN WITH THE LEFT, THE DEMO-CRAPS

> know if any or all "gods" exist, but I'll bet real money that you don't

> believe in any god but your own - you're an "atheist" to every god but one.

>

> > The first Generation of believers did not have a book of New

> > Testament, yet they all had faith in one Savior that Moses foretold.

>

> Actually they had many faiths.- Hide quoted text -

Show the historical evidence.

One says I am of Peter, another I am of Bernabus and another I am of

Paul

What! Is Christ/Messiah divided? or Is Peter crucified for you? Paul

Dear Evol-atheist-conspirator there is but one Lord Jesus as the

Christ and not

many, therefore many faith is just your imagination

>

> - Show quoted text -

On Feb 13, 1:23 pm, "codebrea...@bigsecret.com"

<Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:

> On Feb 13, 12:33 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> > "codebrea...@bigsecret.com" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>

> >news:1171375553.307650.80700@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...

>

> > > On Feb 12, 4:27 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > >> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>

> > >>news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>

> > >> >>

> > >> >> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

> > >> >> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>

> > >> >> I would also state that you don't know either.

>

> > >> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

> > >> > Apostles appealed

> > >> > to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

>

> > >> Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

> > >> questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles.

> > >> Reading

> > >> something in "a bible" means nothing.

>

> > > Now how about reading from the Talmud, the book by Jesus enemies. Try

> > > that.

>

> > I read lots of mythology as a kid, and I don't really have a need to read

> > any more mythology.

>

> > > I don't think anybody in his right mind would question the originality

> > > of the Epistle to Galatians. The Author of the Qur'an, the guy who

> > > analyzed and rebutted the Epistle to Galatians did not think it was

> > > not ORIGINAL otherwise he wouldn't have wasted his time and energy to

> > > rebuke it.

> > > Again OUR BOOK was written by believers and for believers, not for

> > > Atheists.

>

> > If you had read the New Testament, you'd know it was written for atheists as

> > well. Of course you're more of an atheist than I am - I don't profess to

>

> Luke wrote his book for Theophulus so that he may know the veracity of

> the teaching

> handed down to him.

> Through Teopholus it is the whole community of believers who are

> concerned

> by this book and not the doomed atheists.

>

> MAY YOU PERISH ALL. DOWN WITH THE LEFT, THE DEMO-CRAPS

>

> > know if any or all "gods" exist, but I'll bet real money that you don't

> > believe in any god but your own - you're an "atheist" to every god but one.

>

> > > The first Generation of believers did not have a book of New

> > > Testament, yet they all had faith in one Savior that Moses foretold.

>

> > Actually they had many faiths.- Hide quoted text -

>

> Show the historical evidence.

snip

http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/

But I suspect an idiot like you will deny the evidence. Your little

dead-jew-on-a-stick never existed.

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.

aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!

EAC Martian Commander

Plonked by Kadaitcha Man, Sep 06

"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."

-Mark Twain

Religious societies are less moral than secular ones:

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

On 13 Feb 2007 06:08:53 -0800, "codebreaker@bigsecret.com"

<Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> wrote:

>On Feb 12, 10:55 pm, "weatherwax" <weather...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts

>> > of the Apostles appealed to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish

>> > that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah. At least I know that

>> > Paul made the same point during the jewish council.

>> > At least I know that the author of the Qur'an made the

>> > same claim. At least I know from the Jewish Oracle that

>> > the Messiah had to be born into the world.

>> > At least I know from the Testimonies of the Apostles that

>> > Jesus fits the description of whom the previous talked

>> > about. Act of the Apostles. So are you telling me that you

>> > read the whole "New Testament" without coming

>> > across this? Hmmmmmmmm.... You may have reading

>> > comprehension problem. So do all evol-atheist-secular

>> > jerks.

>>

>> Deuteronomy 18:15

>> The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet

>> like me from among you - from your fellow Israelites;

>> you must listen to him.

>>

>> No reference to a messiah, a son of God, or to Jesus Christ in this passage.

>> Moses is merely telling the people that there will be some one else to lead

>> them after he is gone.

>>

>> It shows how dishonest the author of the New Testament can be.

>

>And how dishonest the author of the Qur'an too because it is shown

>that he developped in his book this Mosaic pronouncement at lengh.

>FUCK YOU AND PLONK AGAIN

>

You should get some help with that hostiliity.

Why are you so touchy when somebody criticizes your mythical hero or

his fiction writers or his frothing supporters?

Maybe you should try a different author, it might calm you.

Try some Daniel Dennet, he's pretty gentle.

>

>

>>

>> --Wax- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> - Show quoted text -

>

On Feb 13, 1:54 pm, panamfl...@hotmail.com wrote:

> On Feb 13, 1:23 pm, "codebrea...@bigsecret.com"

>

>

>

>

>

> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:

> > On Feb 13, 12:33 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

> > > "codebrea...@bigsecret.com" <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>

> > >news:1171375553.307650.80700@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...

>

> > > > On Feb 12, 4:27 pm, "abracadabra" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > >> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message

>

> > > >>news:1171310111.284595.50290@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>

> > > >> >>

> > > >> >> I would readily admit that I don't know what it is at stake in the

> > > >> >> Bible or in the whole affair regarding Jesus.

>

> > > >> >> I would also state that you don't know either.

>

> > > >> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts of the

> > > >> > Apostles appealed

> > > >> > to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah.

>

> > > >> Which version of the New Testament? Most versions rely on texts that are

> > > >> questionable. None are based on original writings of the Apostles.

> > > >> Reading

> > > >> something in "a bible" means nothing.

>

> > > > Now how about reading from the Talmud, the book by Jesus enemies. Try

> > > > that.

>

> > > I read lots of mythology as a kid, and I don't really have a need to read

> > > any more mythology.

>

> > > > I don't think anybody in his right mind would question the originality

> > > > of the Epistle to Galatians. The Author of the Qur'an, the guy who

> > > > analyzed and rebutted the Epistle to Galatians did not think it was

> > > > not ORIGINAL otherwise he wouldn't have wasted his time and energy to

> > > > rebuke it.

> > > > Again OUR BOOK was written by believers and for believers, not for

> > > > Atheists.

>

> > > If you had read the New Testament, you'd know it was written for atheists as

> > > well. Of course you're more of an atheist than I am - I don't profess to

>

> > Luke wrote his book for Theophulus so that he may know the veracity of

> > the teaching

> > handed down to him.

> > Through Teopholus it is the whole community of believers who are

> > concerned

> > by this book and not the doomed atheists.

>

> > MAY YOU PERISH ALL. DOWN WITH THE LEFT, THE DEMO-CRAPS

>

> > > know if any or all "gods" exist, but I'll bet real money that you don't

> > > believe in any god but your own - you're an "atheist" to every god but one.

>

> > > > The first Generation of believers did not have a book of New

> > > > Testament, yet they all had faith in one Savior that Moses foretold.

>

> > > Actually they had many faiths.- Hide quoted text -

>

> > Show the historical evidence.

>

> snip

>

> http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/

>

> But I suspect an idiot like you will deny the evidence. Your little

> dead-jew-on-a-stick never existed.

Now pagan ritual is a historical fact. now that rabbish that you post

is the ultimate evidence.Hmmmmmmm...

Question: What evidence is there that this link meets the requirement

needed

for something to become an evidence?

Now here is what you missed. The historical fact regarding Christ

death and resurrection give meaning to paganism symbolism hence the

inclusion that Paul debated against Jewish doctors of the Law. In

another word Christ lurred

pagans from polytheism into the Monotheism, the worship of One God

of Israel. For anything, there is meaning, grasp the meaning and leave

the rest alone.

YOU SECUALR-EVOL-ATHEISTIC COALTION ARE AT A LOSS on this.

Your analytical exegesis is poor. As soon as you see similarity

instead of investigating to underline the meaning behind something.

You just rush to conclusion.

yelling, "We have all figured out, it is pagan or this or that"

YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS LAUGHABLE

>

> -Panama Floyd, Atlanta.

> aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!

> EAC Martian Commander

> Plonked by Kadaitcha Man, Sep 06

> "..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."

> -Mark Twain

>

> Religious societies are less moral than secular ones:http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

On Feb 13, 6:14 pm, jem <A0054...@airmail.net> wrote:

> On 13 Feb 2007 06:08:53 -0800, "codebrea...@bigsecret.com"

>

>

>

>

>

> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:

> >On Feb 12, 10:55 pm, "weatherwax" <weather...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> >> <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote

>

> >> > At least I know that the Apostles as reported in the Acts

> >> > of the Apostles appealed to Moses Deut 18:15 to establish

> >> > that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah. At least I know that

> >> > Paul made the same point during the jewish council.

> >> > At least I know that the author of the Qur'an made the

> >> > same claim. At least I know from the Jewish Oracle that

> >> > the Messiah had to be born into the world.

> >> > At least I know from the Testimonies of the Apostles that

> >> > Jesus fits the description of whom the previous talked

> >> > about. Act of the Apostles. So are you telling me that you

> >> > read the whole "New Testament" without coming

> >> > across this? Hmmmmmmmm.... You may have reading

> >> > comprehension problem. So do all evol-atheist-secular

> >> > jerks.

>

> >> Deuteronomy 18:15

> >> The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet

> >> like me from among you - from your fellow Israelites;

> >> you must listen to him.

>

> >> No reference to a messiah, a son of God, or to Jesus Christ in this passage.

> >> Moses is merely telling the people that there will be some one else to lead

> >> them after he is gone.

>

> >> It shows how dishonest the author of the New Testament can be.

>

> >And how dishonest the author of the Qur'an too because it is shown

> >that he developped in his book this Mosaic pronouncement at lengh.

> >FUCK YOU AND PLONK AGAIN

>

> You should get some help with that hostiliity.

Whatever, jerk.

A bunch of atheistic jerks sit on their MONKEY asses and try to

lectur us on things

they are clueless about. HOW DARE!

If you don't know Moses foretold Christ/Messiah how good is that

reading of the Bible?

If you don't know the point Peter made in front of the Children of

Isreal, why don't

you just leave the whole issue alone.

If you can't make sense of Stephen speech before the Sanhedrin, why do

you keep bragging about how smart you are?

If you don't know the point being made in the Qur'an in connection to

Christ + Moses Law and you are unable to track it back to the

council of Jerusalem, why don't you just shut up?

Down with you all

> Why are you so touchy when somebody criticizes your mythical hero or

> his fiction writers or his frothing supporters?

>

> Maybe you should try a different author, it might calm you.

> Try some Daniel Dennet, he's pretty gentle.

>

>

>

>

>

> >> --Wax- Hide quoted text -

>

> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

On Feb 12, 9:21 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> >> Our book was written by Christians for Christians

> >> Those for whom it was written did not have any problem with its

> >> content. This book did not fall from the sky to make convert among

> >> atheists. It was written by believers for believers.

>

> Yes.. the new testament was.

>

> The old testament was edited and compiled by christians.

Your claim has no basis in History. When the Babylonian Canon

of the Jewish Scriptures was established, Christian had no say in

the Jewih internal affair. Jew dicided in Babylon and in Palestine

which book to include in their Canons. It is wise not to talk

things you are not sure

>

> Of course, that doesn't make it inerrant of course .. because it was indeed

> written by people. It just makes it a useful tool for christians.

The Law/Torah was not written by people. Can't you read?

It was dictated at Sinai. This is the divine Law and the words of God

> Especially as it has so many self-contradictoy passages, that a believer can

You are assuming that only the New Testament makes up the Bible

You are wrong again

> find whatever it is they want to find in there. Unfortunately for

> believers, non-christians can do the same.

You can wish king Cirus was the Christ, that would not work because

it would not be guranteed in Heaven. It would just turn out to be

a wishful thinking

>> Yes.. the new testament was.

>> The old testament was edited and compiled by Christians.

> Your claim has no basis in History.

It most definitely does.

> When the Babylonian Canon of the Jewish Scriptures

[snip irrelevancy]

I'm not talking about the Tankh or the Babylonian Canon of Jewish

Scriptiure, I'm talking about the books of the Christian bible's old

testament. They are derived in part from the Torah etc, however, various

editions of the bible have had different sets of old testament book in them.

The early bibles had no old testament as such included at all.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_books_of_Judeo-Christian_Scripture

for example, for a comparison of what is in the various Jewish and Christian

bibles

>> Of course, that doesn't make it inerrant of course .. because it was

>> indeed

>> written by people. It just makes it a useful tool for christians.

> The Law/Torah was not written by people. Can't you read?

Can't you .. you seem not terribly good at it so far

> It was dictated at Sinai.

Ahh .. so God himself did not actually write it (unlike the commandments on

the tablets) .. he dictated it and Moses wrote it

> This is the divine Law and the words of God

Yes .. as written by a man (moses). Anyway, just to appease you, we won't

talk further about any flaws and inaccuracies in Genesis etc

>> Especially as it has so many self-contradictoy passages, that a believer

>> can

> You are assuming that only the New Testament makes up the Bible

No I'm not .. you're ass-uming this yourself.

> You are wrong again

Hardly .. but you defintiely are, as that is not what I am assuming at all.

Many of the inconsistencies in the bible are between the old and new

testaments, so you cannot consider the two in isolation when talkign about

the bible as a whole.

>> find whatever it is they want to find in there. Unfortunately for

>> believers, non-christians can do the same.

>

> You can wish king Cirus was the Christ

Who said anything about wishing that? You do seem to come out on some odd

tangents, or have problems in reading what people actually write.

"codebreaker@bigsecret.com" wrote

> "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>>>> Our book was written by Christians for Christians

>>>> Those for whom it was written did not have any

>>>> problem with its content. This book did not fall from

>>>> the sky to make convert among atheists. It was

>>>> written by believers for believers.

>>

>> Yes.. the new testament was.

>>

>> The old testament was edited and compiled by christians.

>

> Your claim has no basis in History. When the Babylonian

> Canon of the Jewish Scriptures was established, Christian

> had no say in the Jewih internal affair. Jew dicided in

> Babylon and in Palestine which book to include in their

> Canons. It is wise not to talk things you are not sure

You are right. You shouldn't talk about things you are not sure of. You

must be thinking of the Babylonian Talmud, which is a commentary on the

Tanakh, or Old Testament.

Jewish scripture went through three stages of canonization. The first and

earliest stage was the canonization of the Torah, or Books of Moses.

Several years later the Nevtim, or Prophets, were canonized. The final

canonization of the Kethuvim, or Writings, may not have been made until

about 100 c.e.

Between 300 and 100 b.c.e. a Greek translation called the Septuagint (LXX)

was produced in Egypt. Because the Jewish Bible had not yet been closed,

the Septuagint contained several books which do not appear in the Jewish

Canon. The early Christian church used the Septuagint with all the

additional books which it contained, and it is still used by the Greek

Orthodox church. Early Latin texts were translations of the Septuagint.

In 400 c.e. St. Jerome's translation of the Hebrew scriptures into Latin was

published (the Vulgate.) By this time the Jewish canon was closed, and

Jerome noted that some of the books found in the Septuagint were not a part

of the Jewish canon. These extra books became known as the Apocrypha.

In the 16th century Martin Luther translated the Bible into German, but in

doing it he separated the Apocrypha from the rest of the Old Testament.

Today, the Protestant churches use the same Old Testament canon used by the

first century Jews, with only the order of the books changed

>> Of course, that doesn't make it inerrant of course .. because

>> it was indeed written by people. It just makes it a useful

>> tool for christians.

>

> The Law/Torah was not written by people. Can't you read?

> It was dictated at Sinai. This is the divine Law and the words

> of God

That is insulting. Would God be so clumsy that he makes noise while

walking through a garden (Genesis 3:8.) Would God create mankind, and then

regret that he had done it (Genesis 6:6)? And then destroy it?

Would God threaten to punish your children, grandchildren and great

grandchildren for something which you did (Exodus 20:5)? You must think

God is an idiot, or some kind of bastard.

>> Especially as it has so many self-contradictoy passages,

>> that a believer can

>

> You are assuming that only the New Testament makes up

> the Bible You are wrong again

>

>> find whatever it is they want to find in there. Unfortunately

>> for believers, non-christians can do the same.

>

> You can wish king Cirus was the Christ, that would not work

> because it would not be guranteed in Heaven. It would just

> turn out to be a wishful thinking

But it is the Bible itself which call Cyrus the "messiah" (Isaiah 45:1.)

What are you going to do? Rip that passage from the Bible? Or just close

your eyes?

--Wax

On Feb 13, 7:29 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

> >> Yes.. the new testament was.

> >> The old testament was edited and compiled by Christians.

> > Your claim has no basis in History.

>

> It most definitely does.

>

> > When the Babylonian Canon of the Jewish Scriptures

>

> [snip irrelevancy]

>

> I'm not talking about the Tankh or the Babylonian Canon of Jewish

> Scriptiure, I'm talking about the books of the Christian bible's old

> testament. They are derived in part from the Torah etc, however, various

> editions of the bible have had different sets of old testament book in them.

> The early bibles had no old testament as such included at all.

>

> seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_books_of_Judeo-Christian_Scripture

> for example, for a comparison of what is in the various Jewish and Christian

> bibles

>

> >> Of course, that doesn't make it inerrant of course .. because it was

> >> indeed

> >> written by people. It just makes it a useful tool for christians.

> > The Law/Torah was not written by people. Can't you read?

>

> Can't you .. you seem not terribly good at it so far

>

> > It was dictated at Sinai.

>

> Ahh .. so God himself did not actually write it (unlike the commandments on

> the tablets) .. he dictated it and Moses wrote it

>

> > This is the divine Law and the words of God

>

> Yes .. as written by a man (moses). Anyway, just to appease you, we won't

> talk further about any flaws and inaccuracies in Genesis etc

>

> >> Especially as it has so many self-contradictoy passages, that a believer

> >> can

> > You are assuming that only the New Testament makes up the Bible

>

> No I'm not .. you're ass-uming this yourself.

>

> > You are wrong again

>

> Hardly .. but you defintiely are, as that is not what I am assuming at all.

> Many of the inconsistencies in the bible are between the old and new

> testaments, so you cannot consider the two in isolation when talkign about

> the bible as a whole.

Let me tell again that you need to read the history of the Old

Testament

and how its canon was chosen. Christians had no control on this. If

they had

they would have included books quoted by Paul. Yet numerous books

quoted

by Paul such as the book of the jublile of Moses was rejected by the

Jew as non authoritative.

I was assuming that you are aware of the two groups of Jewish Scholars

who

selected two different canons. The babylonian Canon chosen by Jewish

Scholar

during their meeting in Babylon and the Palestinian Canon chosen in

Palestine

by another group of scholars. Christianity had always used one of

these two sets

of Canon until Martin Luther came along and threw some books out on

the

excuse that they were not inspired. Catholic still use these books as

DEUTEROCANONICAL, that is to say second Canon.

But as I said earlier it was for the Jew to decide the Canon of their

Scriptures

Christianity

>

> >> find whatever it is they want to find in there. Unfortunately for

> >> believers, non-christians can do the same.

>

> > You can wish king Cirus was the Christ

>

> Who said anything about wishing that? You do seem to come out on some odd

> tangents, or have problems in reading what people actually write.

> You are right. You shouldn't talk about things you are not sure of. You

> must be thinking of the Babylonian Talmud, which is a commentary on the

> Tanakh, or Old Testament.

[snip lots of interesting reading]

Thanks for supporting what I was saying there .. I hadn't gone into that

much depth regarding the dates and stages of cannonisation .. most of what

you've said I've read before at various times, but its goot to see it

condensed into one spot. Good researching there (or an exceptionally good

memory ;-) )

> Let me tell again that you need to read the history of the Old

> Testament and how its canon was chosen.

Yes .. of course .. I have read on this. Thanks.

> Christians had no control on this.

Yes they did . .that is why different christian bibles have a different sets

of old testament books, and different sets to the jewish hewbrew bible

texts. The old testament(s) in the bibles are not exactly the same as the

jewish scripture. There is a lot in common, but its not the same.

> If they had they would have included books quoted by Paul.

Indeed .. the bible really needs someone to do a much better job of checking

it for self-consistency.

> But as I said earlier it was for the Jew to decide the Canon of their

> Scriptures

Yes it is.

But the bibles old testament is not just the Jewish scriptures. As you

admit yourself, martin Luther decided to exlude some .. there is you proof

that it's content has been changed by christians (assuming you accept martin

luther as a christian)