More Criminal Invaders Die as US Tightens Border Security

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/7/12/210410.shtml?s=lh

More Migrants Die as U.S. Tightens Border Security

NewsMax.com Wires Friday, July 13, 2007

REYNOSA, Mexico -- Tougher security along the U.S.-Mexico border is forcing

migrants to take more dangerous, remote routes to cross into the United

States and pushing up the number of deaths in the desert.

This year could see a record of well over 500 such deaths. At least 275

Mexican bodies have been found in the first six months, according to a

Mexican Congressional report backed by U.S. and Mexican border groups and

academics.

They say at least 4,500 Mexicans have died trying to cross since the United

States drastically increased border controls in late 1994 to stem illegal

immigration.

Following the failure of President George W. Bush's immigration reform

proposals in Congress last month, U.S. policy is centered on tighter border

security rather than giving immigrants more options to find jobs legally.

But some border experts say enforcement does not stop those trying to get

into the United States and only makes it more dangerous, greatly raising the

fees charged by people smugglers. As security increases, so will the number

of deaths, they say.

"Has enhanced border security increased the number of migrant deaths?

Unquestionably," said Wayne Cornelius, an immigration expert at the

University of California San Diego. "There is no other way to explain the

sharp increase in fatalities."

The Border Patrol recovered some 116 bodies in the Arizona desert between

last October 1 and the end of June, and it only records deaths on the U.S.

side of the frontier. It blames ruthless smugglers for taking migrants

through dangerous terrain and sometimes abandoning them there.

"The number of migrant deaths is increasing because smugglers are taking

them to less-patrolled, more dangerous areas," Border Patrol spokesman Ramon

Rivera said. He said agents rescued 1,450 people in the desert in the same

period.

Unknown numbers of migrants from Central America and other countries also

die each year.

The U.S. government has raised its Border Patrol deployment to around 13,500

agents today from fewer than 4,000 in 1993 and plans to add a further 9,600

agents by 2012. It deployed 6,000 National Guard troops to the border last

year for a two-year period until more agents are hired.

Washington aims to have "operational control" of the border by 2013 by

building a 700-mile (1,120-km) wall along parts of the frontier and creating

a "virtual fence" in desert areas with drones, sensors, cameras, satellite

technology and vehicle barriers.

DROWNING, HYPOTHERMIA

Before the stepped-up enforcement operations, experts say most deaths were

due to traffic accidents as migrants dashed across freeways in border areas.

Today, most die from hypothermia in the desert or by drowning in the Rio

Grande and irrigation canals.

Many Mexicans seeking work in the United States try the overnight trek

through the hostile Arizona desert and away from urban areas such as Tijuana

on the California border.

Between 2000 and 2005, 802 bodies were found in the desert, compared to 125

between 1990 and 1999, according to the University of Arizona.

Surveillance is expected to increase in the Arizona desert but some experts

say that will simply encourage more people to try to cross remote swamp

areas of the Rio Grande in Texas.

"As they increase enforcement in Arizona, we will see a shift toward the

eastern and western fringes of the border. In Texas, we are already seeing

more drownings," said Claudia Smith of the California Rural Legal Assistance

Foundation, which campaigns for immigrants' rights.

Migrant shelters in Mexican border towns say they see no sign of less

illegal immigration despite a fall in Border Patrol arrests. Some shelters,

such as in Reynosa in northeastern Mexico, are expanding to offer more beds.

U.S. wage levels that are much higher than in Mexico remains the main

incentive for attempting the difficult border crossing.

"I've got an uncle in Florida and the chance of something is so much better

than here," said Adan Zendejas, a 24-year-old who cannot swim, as he readied

to cross the Rio Grande from Reynosa on a car tire.

It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

government.

It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

government.

On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

> government.

Get lost, troll.

On Jul 13, 11:33 am, Mike <mgcul...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

>

> > It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

> > are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

> > live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

> > government.

>

> Get lost, troll.

Everyone thinks they know what's best for everyone else more than the

next. Who really knows? Freedom creates a paradox

Mike wrote:

> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

>> government.

>

> Get lost, troll.

>

If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists

as well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists

that borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

community standards be welcomed?

Alex

Alex Russell wrote:

> Mike wrote:

>> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

>>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

>>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

>>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

>>> government.

>>

>> Get lost, troll.

>>

> If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists

> as well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists

> that borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

>

> Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

> community standards be welcomed?

>

> Alex

They are welcome, at points of legal entry. We can't allow just anyone

to walk across the border. We would be letting in murderers, rapists,

drug smugglers, and people with communicable diseased, like

tuberculosis, and don't forget Al Quaeda.

--

Tom Tancredo for President in 2008

For a Secure America

http://www.teamtancredo.org/

http://tancredo.house.gov/

<johnny@.> wrote in message

news:GVxmi.8443$O9.1553@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

> Alex Russell wrote:

> > Mike wrote:

> >> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

> >>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

> >>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

> >>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

> >>> government.

> >>

> >> Get lost, troll.

> >>

> > If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists

> > as well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists

> > that borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

> >

> > Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

> > community standards be welcomed?

> >

> > Alex

>

> They are welcome, at points of legal entry. We can't allow just anyone

> to walk across the border. We would be letting in murderers, rapists,

> drug smugglers, and people with communicable diseased, like

> tuberculosis, and don't forget Al Quaeda.

Odd how such all seem able to walk across the border now. Of course, they do

cheat, I hear they often use make-up to cover the labels on their foreheads

so that unsuspecting immigration officers don't spot them.

>

> --

> Tom Tancredo for President in 2008

> For a Secure America

> http://www.teamtancredo.org/

> http://tancredo.house.gov/

Alex Russell wrote:

> Mike wrote:

>> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

>>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

>>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

>>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

>>> government.

>>

>> Get lost, troll.

>>

> If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists

> as well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists

> that borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

>

Immoral?

Is the key and lock to your car immoral? Is the latch to your front

door immoral?

But of course, property is immoral to socialists and collectivists.

So much for your American citizenship.

Sorry, it just isn't a good fit. Go elsewhere. There are plenty of

budding power vacuums for you to exploit. Find your life's work there.

Go and piss those people off.

By the way, I'd like to have your car. Not giving it to me is immoral.

>

> Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

> community standards be welcomed?

>

First of all your premise is arguable and the evidence to uphold it

is either contrary or not available.

Second, there is more to being an American and of the culture than your

shallow invitation suggests.

>

> Alex

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strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote in message

news:1184550358_11537@sp6iad.superfeed.net...

> Alex Russell wrote:

> > Mike wrote:

> >> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

> >>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

> >>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

> >>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

> >>> government.

> >>

> >> Get lost, troll.

> >>

> > If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists

> > as well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists

> > that borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

> >

>

> Immoral?

>

> Is the key and lock to your car immoral? Is the latch to your front

> door immoral?

Depends, do they hang around in bars, play pool and chew gum?

>

> But of course, property is immoral to socialists and collectivists.

> So much for your American citizenship.

Umm.... hate to break the news to you, but the internet is not a solely

American forum. I know it might be a bit frightening, but you may meet the

occasional person from the rest of the planet here. Relax, breathe deeply,

don't panic.

>

> Sorry, it just isn't a good fit. Go elsewhere. There are plenty of

> budding power vacuums for you to exploit. Find your life's work there.

> Go and piss those people off.

Have you read the original post in this thread? He wants to go to Canada,

you know, that bit of land north of the USA that is not the USA, there is

such a place, you know.

Again, relax, breathe deeply, don't panic.

>

> By the way, I'd like to have your car. Not giving it to me is immoral.

Sure, soon as you move out of your house, I need somewhere to dump my trash.

>

> >

> > Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

> > community standards be welcomed?

> >

>

> First of all your premise is arguable and the evidence to uphold it

> is either contrary or not available.

>

> Second, there is more to being an American and of the culture than your

> shallow invitation suggests.

Relax. breathe deeply. Don't panic.

He doesn't want to be an American.

I know, now you feel insulted but....

relax.....

breathe deeply...

DONT PANIC!!!

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:08:00 GMT, Alex Russell <alexander.russell@telus.net> wrote:

>Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

>community standards be welcomed?

Just to begin.....Because they take jobs from American people. Because they expect

American taxpayers to support them and because they are for the most part uneducated,

illiterate and unskilled, that is a lifetime proposition.....AAC

"Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged

in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent Social Security

numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent

some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on

a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status. In

addition, violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also

prevalent among illegal aliens. Over 25% of today's federal prison

population are illegal aliens. In some areas of the country, 12% of

felonies, 25% of burglaries and 34% of thefts are committed by illegal

aliens."

-- Testimony of District Attorney John M. Morganelli before the House

Subcommittee on Immigration, Border, Security and Claims [Note: 99% of

warrants for murder in Los Angeles, California -- the USA's 2nd

most-populous city -- are for illegal aliens]

"uri" <danny99@bezeqint.net> wrote in message

news:1184333757.846101.153960@m3g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

> are foreigners.

Which is why America and about 90% of the countries on Earth have refugee

programs and immigration processes to handle them.

> No one owns the land of the earth

Wrong.

> so anyone can go and live wherever he wants

Nope. Only in your Smurfy world....

"Alex Russell" <alexander.russell@telus.net> wrote in message

news:kNxmi.40341$Io4.28323@edtnps89...

> Mike wrote:

>> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

>>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

>>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

>>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

>>> government.

>> Get lost, troll.

> If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists as

> well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists that

> borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

Actually, had YOU checked YOU would have seen that MY original post was to

alt.politics ONLY and "uri" trolled in the other newsgroups... So... Mike is

correct, "uri" is a troll.

> Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

> community standards be welcomed?

In America they are. I can't speak for other countries.

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 22:07:08 -0700, AnAmericanCitizen

<NoAmnesty@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:08:00 GMT, Alex Russell <alexander.russell@telus.net> wrote:

>

>>Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

>>community standards be welcomed?

>

>Just to begin.....Because they take jobs from American people. Because they expect

>American taxpayers to support them and because they are for the most part uneducated,

>illiterate and unskilled, that is a lifetime proposition.....AAC

>

>

> "Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged

>in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent Social Security

>numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent

>some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on

>a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status. In

>addition, violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also

>prevalent among illegal aliens. Over 25% of today's federal prison

>population are illegal aliens. In some areas of the country, 12% of

>felonies, 25% of burglaries and 34% of thefts are committed by illegal

>aliens."

>

> -- Testimony of District Attorney John M. Morganelli before the House

>Subcommittee on Immigration, Border, Security and Claims [Note: 99% of

>warrants for murder in Los Angeles, California -- the USA's 2nd

>most-populous city -- are for illegal aliens]

Not to mention the fact that illegals do not uphold any local

community standards. In fact, they go against any and all.

Patriot Games <Crazy_Bastard@The_Beach.com> wrote in message

news:469bacc4$0$31287$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> "Alex Russell" <alexander.russell@telus.net> wrote in message

> news:kNxmi.40341$Io4.28323@edtnps89...

> > Mike wrote:

> >> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

> >>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

> >>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

> >>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

> >>> government.

> >> Get lost, troll.

> > If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists

as

> > well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists that

> > borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

>

> Actually, had YOU checked YOU would have seen that MY original post was to

> alt.politics ONLY and "uri" trolled in the other newsgroups... So... Mike

is

> correct, "uri" is a troll.

Nope, cross-posting to groups with a similar 'topic base' is not trolling.

'Borders' and 'Immigration policies' are on-topic for the groups listed

above. Cross-posting to unrelated groups is trolling.

>

> > Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

> > community standards be welcomed?

>

> In America they are. I can't speak for other countries.

>

On Jul 16, 11:46 am, strabo <str...@flashlight.net> wrote:

> Alex Russell wrote:

> > Mike wrote:

> >> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

> >>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

> >>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go and

> >>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by the

> >>> government.

>

> >> Get lost, troll.

>

> > If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists

> > as well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists

> > that borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

>

> Immoral?

>

> Is the key and lock to your car immoral? Is the latch to your front

> door immoral?

>

No because those are your property, but it would be immoral for

someone to lock your car against your consent. You don't own

America and neither do the Bushrangers, much as they'd like

to pretend they do.

> But of course, property is immoral to socialists and collectivists.

Well the sort of "property" that consists of "the people"

arbitrarily

deciding it owns something because it has the numbers is immoral

to all true anarchists, but it's less clear that it's immoral to all

socialists and collectivists. In fact you are arguing the

collectivist

idea that a nation can own something, which it cannot. Americans

are prefectly entitled to invite whoever they want onto their land

regardless of what the rest of the nation thinks of it. The rest of

the nation don't own the individuals land nor do they have are

moral right to exclude people from places not theirs.

> So much for your American citizenship.

>

> Sorry, it just isn't a good fit. Go elsewhere.

Why don't you?

> There are plenty of

> budding power vacuums for you to exploit. Find your life's work there.

> Go and piss those people off.

>

> By the way, I'd like to have your car. Not giving it to me is immoral.

>

You don't own the country, stop pretending that you do.

>

> > Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

> > community standards be welcomed?

>

> First of all your premise is arguable and the evidence to uphold it

> is either contrary or not available.

>

Yeah because all those immigrants have been slacking off, that's

why they're found in raids on workplaces. In fact illegal immigrants

clearly do obey the laws otherwise they'd be found in routine police

enquiries. Presumably that means they uphold "community standards".

> Second, there is more to being an American and of the culture than your

> shallow invitation suggests.

>

So? Just because someone isn't "of the culture" doesn't make him

not a human being and doesn't mean he should be excluded from

places.

> >

>

> > Alex

>

> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----http://www.newsfeeds.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups

> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Jul 16, 3:07 pm, AnAmericanCitizen <NoAmne...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:08:00 GMT, Alex Russell <alexander.russ...@telus.net> wrote:

> >Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

> >community standards be welcomed?

>

> Just to begin.....Because they take jobs from American people.

So? Either the American is a better or cheaper worker or he's not.

If

he is then presumably he keeps his job, if not then why does he have

a right to a job he hasn't earned?

> Because they expect American taxpayers to support them

Actually most work and pay taxes (including social security taxes

they don't get credited with). Their children pay even more taxes

and the NPV of each immigrant (including the contribution of their

children) is +$80,000 in higher tax collection and lower expenditure.

Not that I think anyone paying taxes is a good thing, just pointing

out your errors.

> and because they are for the most part uneducated,

> illiterate and unskilled, that is a lifetime proposition.....AAC

>

They are not for the most part illiterate or unskilled, you are

simply

lying now.

> "Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged

> in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent Social Security

> numbers and green cards,

So far nothing that wouldn't disappear if they simply didn't have to

lie

about their identity.

> tax evasion,

Good for them, I'd rather have money going to what people think is

good than what government does.

> driving without licenses

Again, this is a product of the government's actions in making them

illegal and is not actually harmful.

> represent

> some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on

> a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status. In

> addition, violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also

> prevalent among illegal aliens.

And everyone else.

> Over 25% of today's federal prison population are illegal aliens.

Which merely means that they are targeted more by the Feds for

immigration "offences" than for things that actually hurt people.

> In some areas of the country, 12% of felonies, 25% of burglaries

> and 34% of thefts are committed by illegal aliens."

>

"Some areas of the country"? So in other words in most areas

there aren't anywhere near that many? And these areas would have

what proportion of illegal aliens? Man you must think we're stupid to

fall for that.

> -- Testimony of District Attorney John M. Morganelli before the House

> Subcommittee on Immigration, Border, Security and Claims [Note: 99% of

> warrants for murder in Los Angeles, California -- the USA's 2nd

> most-populous city -- are for illegal aliens]

"brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message

news:1184646431.57804.0@iris.uk.clara.net...

> Patriot Games <Crazy_Bastard@The_Beach.com> wrote in message

> news:469bacc4$0$31287$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>> "Alex Russell" <alexander.russell@telus.net> wrote in message

>> news:kNxmi.40341$Io4.28323@edtnps89...

>> > Mike wrote:

>> >> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

>> >>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

>> >>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go

>> >>> and

>> >>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by

>> >>> the

>> >>> government.

>> >> Get lost, troll.

>> > If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists

> as

>> > well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists

>> > that

>> > borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

>> Actually, had YOU checked YOU would have seen that MY original post was

>> to

>> alt.politics ONLY and "uri" trolled in the other newsgroups... So... Mike

> is

>> correct, "uri" is a troll.

> Nope, cross-posting to groups with a similar 'topic base' is not trolling.

> 'Borders' and 'Immigration policies' are on-topic for the groups listed

> above. Cross-posting to unrelated groups is trolling.

Hair-splitting....

Patriot Games <Crazy_Bastard@The_Beach.com> wrote in message

news:469d14d2$0$3159$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message

> news:1184646431.57804.0@iris.uk.clara.net...

> > Patriot Games <Crazy_Bastard@The_Beach.com> wrote in message

> > news:469bacc4$0$31287$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> >> "Alex Russell" <alexander.russell@telus.net> wrote in message

> >> news:kNxmi.40341$Io4.28323@edtnps89...

> >> > Mike wrote:

> >> >> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

> >> >>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

> >> >>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go

> >> >>> and

> >> >>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by

> >> >>> the

> >> >>> government.

> >> >> Get lost, troll.

> >> > If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist

lists

> > as

> >> > well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists

> >> > that

> >> > borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

> >> Actually, had YOU checked YOU would have seen that MY original post was

> >> to

> >> alt.politics ONLY and "uri" trolled in the other newsgroups... So...

Mike

> > is

> >> correct, "uri" is a troll.

> > Nope, cross-posting to groups with a similar 'topic base' is not

trolling.

> > 'Borders' and 'Immigration policies' are on-topic for the groups listed

> > above. Cross-posting to unrelated groups is trolling.

>

> Hair-splitting....

Trans : okay, so its not trolling but I aint gonna admit that.......

>

>

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 05:25:18 +0100, "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote:

>Nope, cross-posting to groups with a similar 'topic base' is not trolling.

>'Borders' and 'Immigration policies' are on-topic for the groups listed

>above. Cross-posting to unrelated groups is trolling.

Egad! For a minute there I thought I was a troll. This post makes me feel a little

better. Particularly as regards illegal immigration, there are posts that just call

out to be shared. I pass them and various media articles along to groups that I feel

have a large number of people that would be interested. Nobody has to read them if

they don't want to. If I ever forwarded somone's post(s) and that person didn't want

me to and told me so....sobeit...I'd honor their request. I'm sure there are many

others like me.

I believe the recent defeat of the amnesty bill in the senate was helped by the

internet community that shared information and passed along important numbers....AAC

Of course not,You ask them first if they are communist,if they are not, you

send them back ,if they are you just kill the fucks and save the planet.

"Michael Price" <nini_pad@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1184650516.267511.163950@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

> On Jul 16, 11:46 am, strabo <str...@flashlight.net> wrote:

>> Alex Russell wrote:

>> > Mike wrote:

>> >> On Jul 13, 8:35 am, uri <dann...@bezeqint.net> wrote:

>> >>> It's immoral to deny people access to a country simply because they

>> >>> are foreigners. No one owns the land of the earth so anyone can go

>> >>> and

>> >>> live wherever he wants, without being deported or put in prison by

>> >>> the

>> >>> government.

>>

>> >> Get lost, troll.

>>

>> > If you had checked, you would see that this post is on anarchist lists

>> > as well as general politics. It is a widely held view among anarchists

>> > that borders are immoral, so Uri's post is not a troll.

>>

>> Immoral?

>>

>> Is the key and lock to your car immoral? Is the latch to your front

>> door immoral?

>>

> No because those are your property, but it would be immoral for

> someone to lock your car against your consent. You don't own

> America and neither do the Bushrangers, much as they'd like

> to pretend they do.

>

>> But of course, property is immoral to socialists and collectivists.

>

> Well the sort of "property" that consists of "the people"

> arbitrarily

> deciding it owns something because it has the numbers is immoral

> to all true anarchists, but it's less clear that it's immoral to all

> socialists and collectivists. In fact you are arguing the

> collectivist

> idea that a nation can own something, which it cannot. Americans

> are prefectly entitled to invite whoever they want onto their land

> regardless of what the rest of the nation thinks of it. The rest of

> the nation don't own the individuals land nor do they have are

> moral right to exclude people from places not theirs.

>

>> So much for your American citizenship.

>>

>> Sorry, it just isn't a good fit. Go elsewhere.

>

> Why don't you?

>

>> There are plenty of

>> budding power vacuums for you to exploit. Find your life's work there.

>> Go and piss those people off.

>>

>> By the way, I'd like to have your car. Not giving it to me is immoral.

>>

> You don't own the country, stop pretending that you do.

>

>>

>> > Why shouldn't people who are willing to work hard, and uphold the local

>> > community standards be welcomed?

>>

>> First of all your premise is arguable and the evidence to uphold it

>> is either contrary or not available.

>>

> Yeah because all those immigrants have been slacking off, that's

> why they're found in raids on workplaces. In fact illegal immigrants

> clearly do obey the laws otherwise they'd be found in routine police

> enquiries. Presumably that means they uphold "community standards".

>

>> Second, there is more to being an American and of the culture than your

>> shallow invitation suggests.

>>

> So? Just because someone isn't "of the culture" doesn't make him

> not a human being and doesn't mean he should be excluded from

> places.

>

>> >

>>

>> > Alex

>>

>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet

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>

>

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:35:57 -0700, uri wrote:

Doesn't anyone read Subject lines before posting?

Cut out the redundancy, its not buying you any points.

-- Regards, Curly

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