Guest AnAmericanCitizen Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Is there anyone that doesn't believe the illegals will simply once again come forward with their fraudulent paperwork and get a free pass (i.e., driver's license)?..AAC Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could do to stop it. "I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. (Well, Mr. Chertoff, enforce laws on the books regarding illegal immigration, crack down on employers who hire illegals and start a program of returning illegal aliens, including those who have overstayed their visas and there will be a lot fewer licenses for illegals.....AAC) "Besides being a massive defeat for the governor, I can't imagine many _ if any _ illegal immigrants coming forward to get the driver's licenses, because they'd basically be labeled as illegal," said New York Rep. Peter King, the top Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee. (We'll just have to wait and see just how these licenses look.....) Newsday.com Homeland Security strikes deal with New York on driver's licenses By DEVLIN BARRETT Associated Press Writer 3:17 PM EDT, October 27, 2007 WASHINGTON The Bush administration and New York cut a deal Saturday to create a new generation of super-secure driver's licenses for U.S. citizens, but also allow illegal immigrants to get a version. New York is the fourth state to reach such an agreement on federally approved secure licenses, after Arizona, Vermont and Washington. The issue is pressing for border states, where new and tighter rules are soon to go into effect for crossings. The deal comes about one month after New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer announced a plan whereby illegal immigrants with a valid foreign passport could obtain a license. Saturday's agreement with the Homeland Security Department will create a three-tier license system in New York. It is the largest state to sign on so far to the government's post-Sept. 11 effort to make identification cards more secure. Spitzer, who has faced much criticism on the issue, said the deal means New York "will usher in the most secure licensing system in the nation." Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could do to stop it. "I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. "It's going to be a big deal up in Buffalo, it's going to be a big deal on the Canadian side of the border," Chertoff said. The governor made clear he is going forward with his plan allowing licenses for illegal immigrants. But advocates on both sides of the debate said Spitzer had caved to pressure by adopting the administration's stance on tighter security standards for most driver's licenses. GOP Rep. Thomas Reynolds, who represents the Buffalo suburbs, said he was glad Washington had heeded his concerns about border identification. But he said he feared that Spitzer "is taking this state down a risky path" by giving any kind of license to illegal immigrants. Under the compromise, New York will produce an "enhanced driver's license" that will be as secure as a passport. It is intended for people who soon will need to meet such ID requirements, even for a short drive to Canada. A second version of the license will meet new federal standards of the Real ID Act. That law is designed to make it much harder for illegal immigrants or would-be terrorists to obtain licenses. A third type of license will be available to undocumented immigrants. Spitzer has said this ID will make the state more secure by bringing those people "out of the shadows" and into American society, and will lower auto insurance rates. Those licenses will be clearly marked to show they are not valid federal ID. Officials, however, would not say whether that meant local law enforcement could use such a license as probable cause to detain someone they suspected of being in the U.S. illegally. "Besides being a massive defeat for the governor, I can't imagine many _ if any _ illegal immigrants coming forward to get the driver's licenses, because they'd basically be labeled as illegal," said New York Rep. Peter King, the top Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee. New York has between 500,000 and 1 million undocumented immigrants, many of whom are driving without a license and car insurance or with fake driver's licenses, Spitzer said in September when he announced his executive order. The administration has not finalized standards for Real ID-compliant driver's licenses. Spitzer said he believed the new licenses would meet those standards or come very close. Many states say it is too expensive to comply with the law; seven of them have passed legislation opposing Real ID. Neither the governor nor Chertoff would say how much it would cost to put the system in place or who would pay for it. Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties, said Spitzer's move effectively revives a faltering ID program. "The governor's stunning lack of courage is aiding the Bush administration in clamping down on civil liberties," Lieberman said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bjorn Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:29:24 -0700, AnAmericanCitizen <NoAmnesty@earthlink.net> wrote: > >Is there anyone that doesn't believe the illegals will simply once again come forward >with their fraudulent paperwork and get a free pass (i.e., driver's license)?..AAC > > >Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York >intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could >do to stop it. >"I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law >does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. Very unhappy about this. You can bet your ass that these things will be accepted for virtually everything, no matter what these snakes claim. They will be handed across the desk for every purpose and accepted by our f-ing civil employees. When this is implemented, I can just see the bill in the California Assembly here the very next day, declaring that these low-tier mojado DLs from NY will be acceptable trade-ins for full California DLs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bjorn Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:29:24 -0700, AnAmericanCitizen <NoAmnesty@earthlink.net> wrote: > >Is there anyone that doesn't believe the illegals will simply once again come forward >with their fraudulent paperwork and get a free pass (i.e., driver's license)?..AAC > > >Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York >intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could >do to stop it. >"I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law >does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. Very unhappy about this. You can bet your ass that these things will be accepted for virtually everything, no matter what these snakes claim. They will be handed across the desk for every purpose and accepted by our f-ing civil employees. When this is implemented, I can just see the bill in the California Assembly here the very next day, declaring that these low-tier mojado DLs from NY will be acceptable trade-ins for full California DLs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 On Oct 27, 11:29?pm, AnAmericanCitizen <NoAmne...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Is there anyone that doesn't believe the illegals will simply once again come forward Taoists tell us...fleas come with the dog. I am no fan of Bush, but at least he keeps the crude flowing, so to all the Bush haters...leave him alone. He has a thankless and impossible job. We will be at war over crude until the last buckets have been sucked from the earth...so get used to it. As we would leave the Middle East...China or Russia would step in. See: http://www.amazon.com/Resource-Wars-Landscape-Conflict-Introduction/dp/0805055762 You like typing on the 'puter don't you? Well, without the crude to make the diesel to power the train that brings the coal to the power plant you would not be typing on the 'puter. So kiss the asses of the politicians for 2 reasons 1) They are not atheists and they are Christian based 2 They keep the crude flowing the best way they can under somewhat Christian principles. You see, if they were atheists they would just try to take the crude and not pay for it like the Chinese or Russians have done and kill everything that got in their path. The Christian based US pays for what they take and stops the killing unless it is absolutely necessary to keep the crude flowing so we can live like energy whores. If the Dem's get in I'm afraid you guys are in for rude awakening. Really it will be an 'ass reaming' and you wont be able to use any Vaseline either - since Vaseline is made from crude oil as well. You see, Hillary wont fight for oil, she will be too busy banning guns at home. (BTW, I am not a Dem or Rep and hate all politicians as they are power hungry, ego based individuals...but who will we get to run things without them?? And in normal circumstances I think Hillary would make a decent president and wouldn't mind trying her out...but not when it comes to crude wars as well as the wars at home that I detail below.) WAKE UP GUYS!!!! It seems everyone wishes to hide their heads in the sand when it comes to this subject of peak oil. We can't depend on the President to come clean with the public. All his energies are spent just trying to keep the oil flowing. He can't admit that the oil will stop in the not so distant future, no matter what we do. It is a problem beyond his as well as all of our control. As they say in 12 Step programs - admitting you have a problem is step 1. And our country cannot admit it, after all, admitting this problem would raise hell with our retirement funds. And until we can admit it, we cannot begin on our long road to a 'semblance' of recovery. And in the big picture, we can't fix the problem, we can only postpone the inevitable. But buying a little more time would make things much more livable in the not so distant future than the current path we are headed in. The world is in a death spiral and politicians as well as industry are pretending this problem does not exist. We can only blame ourselves, for it is just how we have built our world over the years....too many people, living outside of natures intended balance and not an infinite supply of energy to fuel all our demands. It would be one thing if we all reverted back to rural living, burning trees for fuel and housing and living within our comfortable means allotted to us by nature, as our ancestors did back in the day. But ten billion people can't burn the trees! (Ten billion people is a conservative estimate of world population in the not so distant future. We are at 7 people billion now.) The World Coal Institute estimates world energy reserves as follows: "At current production levels coal will be available for at least the next 155 years compared to 41 years for oil and 65 years for gas." http://www.worldcoal.org/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=21 Even though this was written a few years ago and it is based on 'current production and consumption' it gives the same haunting message to the generations to come. We may not exactly see the end of our free flowing energy as we know it - but some of our descendants will in the not so distant future. This is the legacy they will inherit from us. But before the energy dries up completely massive changes in our world will have taken place. Our population has grown to levels where it has passed the point of no return for supporting a sustainable human population as we know it today when it comes to their energy demands. And leading the pack of over consumers is the USA. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption Consumption is ingrained in us and we know no other way. And even if we wished to amend our ways, how could all our retirement funds take the hit? America is built on borrowed money, spending and consumerism. And what does all that consumerism lead to? It leads to the mess we are in now and the bigger mess the world will be in once India and China pick up momentum to copycat the envious lifestyle that they have held in high esteem as the 'American Dream' You see, the problem is not with the earth having enough land for all its people - the problem is with earth providing ad infinitum for all the needs the people crave. The more people born, the more heat is produced from their life and all their cravings, As such, the warmer and more polluted the earth gets and the more energy they all use and the earths resources are depleted. Fueling the problem of consumption is the games the Federal and World banks play with interest rates. They manage the economies in ways to fuel consumption and mask the real trend. Witness the recent cries for Federal bankers to lower interest rates...so the stock market can go up...fueled by spending of the consumer. It is drug habit that Greenspan got us hooked on and we just can't get away from. Our economy is not based on sustainable health - it is based low interest credit to encourage compulsive spending, debt and living a life of constant consumption with a 'disposable mentality' when it comes to durable goods. All this consumption to artificially fuel our economy to make our retirement funds only go up contributes to more and more global warming and the depletion of our natural resources. Then the governments juggle the numbers to make the inflation figures seem artificially low, so everyone's retirement portfolio will make them happy so they will continue to buy and consume more...and on it goes....IT IS ALL WE KNOW You see, no other animal destroys its environment except mankind. We are the only ones that do not accept and live within our comfortable means. We not only debt with our finances we debt with our environment. What we are borrowing in terms of petroleum, coal and natural gas takes millions of years for nature to make. Yet we are using it all up in just a few hundred years...we can never pay it back. I think our countries future will be....'America...a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God.' And maybe I am using the wrong word with communism? Maybe it should be Nationalism? Socialism? I don't know since I have little interest in politics. As far for what I means, it could be compared somewhat to Plato's Republic. Where the republic came first and people came second. But with the US, the injection of Democratic values as well as a spiritual foundation that supports our country would 'hopefully' separate us from the atheist based communists that have been run as dictatorships. Without energy our country is open for takeover ... no jets...no tanks...no transport on the ground or in the air. Luckily we will still have nuclear powered submarines and aircraft carriers as long as the uranium holds out. But the jets on the flattop all use jet fuel. All the supplies for those subs and carriers petroleum dependent. So long before the crude dries up the government must 'secure a supply' of crude for it own needs. Other countries such as Russia that have a good supply of crude may not be so kind to keep on selling it to us and we need a 'local and continual' source somewhat within our borders. You see, jet fuel as well as gasoline deteriorates and cannot be stored indefinitely. So we must always be producing some of it to replace the stale stuff to supply the military. But, that's why we elect politicians to deal with these troubles As our world changes and our drug supply dries up, things will only get worse. And the bigger the city - the bigger the hellhole it will become. And this time RIGHT NOW is the defining moment as to whether most of our population will die off or not in the crisis that awaits us in the not so distant future. When it comes to the future, I see people living in miniature houses (the lucky ones that survive that is, after all most of the population died off long ago from starvation, freezing to death or from the riots) with roofs shingled completely with solar material. They drive up to their house on an electric scooter that is recharged from their solar roof. If they are higher up the totem pole they may have a solar golf cart. But in either case, luck must still be on their side for without the sun shinning to charge it, their transportation sits idle. (Not much lead left to build big batteries...China gobbled it all up, so we have to make due with very small storage cells.) They work for the government and in exchange the government feeds and clothes them from their warehouses. You see, we have become a sort of 'Communist Democracy' for without that bold leap and a desire 'to put our country first' Russia or China would have stepped in to acquire some new real estate. The warehouses are fed from government owned coal fired steam locomotives. Diesel dried up long ago, so it was either wood or coal to fuel the trains. It did not take our government long to realize this. the electric plants only had to shut down sporadically for 8 months so until they could build the first of a large fleet of steam locomotives. This was a 'slight' government oversight. They never figured that the coal fired power plants were fed with 'diesel powered' locomotives. They kept concentrated on the prediction that we had a hundred of years of coal left, but were oblivious as to how that coal is delivered to the power plant. But all these changes have some bright spots in them. As the coal producers were able to hire many more workers to manually mine coal, as the diesel powered mining equipment sit idle from lack of diesel fuel. Now some of the states or bigger cities had the foresight to build one or two electric rail trolleys for public transport. Your only problem is getting to the main road to catch the trolley and then it is a straight ride to the government warehouse. What happened to Private industry & Money? Money is nothing more than stored energy. But since the crude dried up, the 'real energy' behind the money has vanished...and so did private industry. What about the coal mines...all government owned. If you want to eat you work..it is that simple. So, what is money good for nowadays...to wipe your ass? Not really, the government supplied toilet paper works better than that. Martha Stewart syndrome died out long ago, now people are happy to eat rice and beans and get a clean glass of water to drink. After all, the government can't afford to fool around decorating everyone's house, they can hardly produce enough food to keep a fraction of the population alive. Yes, tractors, reapers and farming is very crude intensive...but no one bothered to think about that as they continued to squander the worlds petroleum resources. On a positive note, since most of the population died off from 'natural causes', the government does not have to worry about passing 'population control' any longer. They tried to get that universally opposed program passed for many years, but the public just would not go for it...too UN-American...goes against our religious upbringings...too controversial and all of the rest. We can still hear the cries now...Communist!...Atheist!...Baby Killer....Hitler....Impeach the President!!!! Such objections are only subjective and prejudicial states of mind. As such, all problems related to 'controversial subjects' such as this are problems created in the mind...the mind of ego based, prejudicial man. If you find yourself being distracted with such thoughts as 'too controversial' just ask yourself if the proposed controversy is true, false or I don't know? This introspective method may help you become truth based and not ego based. You will have made a 'choice divorced of need'...you wont 'need your ego' to support the truth...the truth will be able to stand on its own. But nature helped us humans out with that hard decision - for nature does not discriminate nor find the truth too controversial or provocative or opinionated to be true. And in the end, nature settled the dispute of population control with even handed justice of 75% of our population dying off, ever reminding us all that nature does not bow to man...it is always man that bows to nature. But, people hold no grudges against nature and are more in harmony with nature and enjoy a simpler life nowadays. People pick pine needles from trees to make their tea, since there is no jet fuel to import any Darjeeling tea or coffee. Once in a while people are able to kill a bird, a rat or cat to supplement their diet - so we still can find a place of gratitude in our life for such gifts. Of course one problem still haunts the world? The last remaining buckets of crude will soon be gone and they have still not found out how to make the tires for the solar powered golf carts and scooters without that critical ingredient of crude oil? Add it all together and you have 'America...a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God.' as the 'best fit ' equation. And for dessert add 'politics as usual' and we can see nothing substantive will be done in the US to fix our energy woes until it is too late. (Really it can't be fixed, we can only slowed down the inevitable at this point.) See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F BTW, do I like communism? No, I like things EXACTLY as they are. But what I like doesn't matter...neither does what you like matter. That's the point, for the US to survive, we must put 'what matters to our country' on the front burner. And as our country survives so do we survive. Alan Watts used to say, it doesn't matter what you think, it doesn't matter what you like, it doesn't matter what you hope for...all that really matters is what IS. Sure we keep our treasured paper money, our guns, and what have you. The atheists can still be atheists and the Christians, Muslims and Jews can still worship as they like...that is why we would be a free democracy...of sorts. But the difference is, instead of the ego based decisions that politicians and the titans of business get sucked into, they will put the long term viability as top priority over personal profit. We must all pull together and stop pulling in counterproductive directions. The gov needs to cut the fat and stop all this foolish sickness that they are addicted to in Washington. Hire yourself some truth based philosophers and futurists as Socrates suggested in the Republic as an oversight committee to keep you guys on track. One important thing would be to add an addendum to the constitution or bill of rights or whatever other documents that outlines what we are 'now' all about...something that is clear advice that we can all look to and not the 1000 page BS that politician use to hide their sickness. And yes,...hiding behavior is a signpost of die-ease. And put it right upfront in the addendum as to why things changed...we were energy whores and had no other choice. But realize this, throughout history many great nations that once were are not around any longer. Hopefully the US will understand this and start accepting the truth that something has to give and it can't be business as usual...it doesn't matter what you like...it doesn't matter what you hope for...all that really matters is what is. See: http://www.algore.org/forum/al_gore_news_and_events/gores_work_combat_climate_crisis/why_dont_we_do_anything_about_global_ http://www.amazon.com/Out-Gas-End-Age-Oil/dp/0393058573 http://www.amazon.com/Hubberts-Peak-Impending-World-Shortage/dp/0691116253 http://www.lastoilshock.com/ http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/ http://www.amazon.com/Resource-Wars-Landscape-Conflict-Introduction/dp/0805055762 http://www.amazon.com/Long-Emergency-Converging-Catastrophes-Twenty-First/dp/0871138883 Take care, V (Male) Agnostic Freethinker Practical Philosopher Futurist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 On Oct 27, 11:29?pm, AnAmericanCitizen <NoAmne...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Is there anyone that doesn't believe the illegals will simply once again come forward Taoists tell us...fleas come with the dog. I am no fan of Bush, but at least he keeps the crude flowing, so to all the Bush haters...leave him alone. He has a thankless and impossible job. We will be at war over crude until the last buckets have been sucked from the earth...so get used to it. As we would leave the Middle East...China or Russia would step in. See: http://www.amazon.com/Resource-Wars-Landscape-Conflict-Introduction/dp/0805055762 You like typing on the 'puter don't you? Well, without the crude to make the diesel to power the train that brings the coal to the power plant you would not be typing on the 'puter. So kiss the asses of the politicians for 2 reasons 1) They are not atheists and they are Christian based 2 They keep the crude flowing the best way they can under somewhat Christian principles. You see, if they were atheists they would just try to take the crude and not pay for it like the Chinese or Russians have done and kill everything that got in their path. The Christian based US pays for what they take and stops the killing unless it is absolutely necessary to keep the crude flowing so we can live like energy whores. If the Dem's get in I'm afraid you guys are in for rude awakening. Really it will be an 'ass reaming' and you wont be able to use any Vaseline either - since Vaseline is made from crude oil as well. You see, Hillary wont fight for oil, she will be too busy banning guns at home. (BTW, I am not a Dem or Rep and hate all politicians as they are power hungry, ego based individuals...but who will we get to run things without them?? And in normal circumstances I think Hillary would make a decent president and wouldn't mind trying her out...but not when it comes to crude wars as well as the wars at home that I detail below.) WAKE UP GUYS!!!! It seems everyone wishes to hide their heads in the sand when it comes to this subject of peak oil. We can't depend on the President to come clean with the public. All his energies are spent just trying to keep the oil flowing. He can't admit that the oil will stop in the not so distant future, no matter what we do. It is a problem beyond his as well as all of our control. As they say in 12 Step programs - admitting you have a problem is step 1. And our country cannot admit it, after all, admitting this problem would raise hell with our retirement funds. And until we can admit it, we cannot begin on our long road to a 'semblance' of recovery. And in the big picture, we can't fix the problem, we can only postpone the inevitable. But buying a little more time would make things much more livable in the not so distant future than the current path we are headed in. The world is in a death spiral and politicians as well as industry are pretending this problem does not exist. We can only blame ourselves, for it is just how we have built our world over the years....too many people, living outside of natures intended balance and not an infinite supply of energy to fuel all our demands. It would be one thing if we all reverted back to rural living, burning trees for fuel and housing and living within our comfortable means allotted to us by nature, as our ancestors did back in the day. But ten billion people can't burn the trees! (Ten billion people is a conservative estimate of world population in the not so distant future. We are at 7 people billion now.) The World Coal Institute estimates world energy reserves as follows: "At current production levels coal will be available for at least the next 155 years compared to 41 years for oil and 65 years for gas." http://www.worldcoal.org/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=21 Even though this was written a few years ago and it is based on 'current production and consumption' it gives the same haunting message to the generations to come. We may not exactly see the end of our free flowing energy as we know it - but some of our descendants will in the not so distant future. This is the legacy they will inherit from us. But before the energy dries up completely massive changes in our world will have taken place. Our population has grown to levels where it has passed the point of no return for supporting a sustainable human population as we know it today when it comes to their energy demands. And leading the pack of over consumers is the USA. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption Consumption is ingrained in us and we know no other way. And even if we wished to amend our ways, how could all our retirement funds take the hit? America is built on borrowed money, spending and consumerism. And what does all that consumerism lead to? It leads to the mess we are in now and the bigger mess the world will be in once India and China pick up momentum to copycat the envious lifestyle that they have held in high esteem as the 'American Dream' You see, the problem is not with the earth having enough land for all its people - the problem is with earth providing ad infinitum for all the needs the people crave. The more people born, the more heat is produced from their life and all their cravings, As such, the warmer and more polluted the earth gets and the more energy they all use and the earths resources are depleted. Fueling the problem of consumption is the games the Federal and World banks play with interest rates. They manage the economies in ways to fuel consumption and mask the real trend. Witness the recent cries for Federal bankers to lower interest rates...so the stock market can go up...fueled by spending of the consumer. It is drug habit that Greenspan got us hooked on and we just can't get away from. Our economy is not based on sustainable health - it is based low interest credit to encourage compulsive spending, debt and living a life of constant consumption with a 'disposable mentality' when it comes to durable goods. All this consumption to artificially fuel our economy to make our retirement funds only go up contributes to more and more global warming and the depletion of our natural resources. Then the governments juggle the numbers to make the inflation figures seem artificially low, so everyone's retirement portfolio will make them happy so they will continue to buy and consume more...and on it goes....IT IS ALL WE KNOW You see, no other animal destroys its environment except mankind. We are the only ones that do not accept and live within our comfortable means. We not only debt with our finances we debt with our environment. What we are borrowing in terms of petroleum, coal and natural gas takes millions of years for nature to make. Yet we are using it all up in just a few hundred years...we can never pay it back. I think our countries future will be....'America...a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God.' And maybe I am using the wrong word with communism? Maybe it should be Nationalism? Socialism? I don't know since I have little interest in politics. As far for what I means, it could be compared somewhat to Plato's Republic. Where the republic came first and people came second. But with the US, the injection of Democratic values as well as a spiritual foundation that supports our country would 'hopefully' separate us from the atheist based communists that have been run as dictatorships. Without energy our country is open for takeover ... no jets...no tanks...no transport on the ground or in the air. Luckily we will still have nuclear powered submarines and aircraft carriers as long as the uranium holds out. But the jets on the flattop all use jet fuel. All the supplies for those subs and carriers petroleum dependent. So long before the crude dries up the government must 'secure a supply' of crude for it own needs. Other countries such as Russia that have a good supply of crude may not be so kind to keep on selling it to us and we need a 'local and continual' source somewhat within our borders. You see, jet fuel as well as gasoline deteriorates and cannot be stored indefinitely. So we must always be producing some of it to replace the stale stuff to supply the military. But, that's why we elect politicians to deal with these troubles As our world changes and our drug supply dries up, things will only get worse. And the bigger the city - the bigger the hellhole it will become. And this time RIGHT NOW is the defining moment as to whether most of our population will die off or not in the crisis that awaits us in the not so distant future. When it comes to the future, I see people living in miniature houses (the lucky ones that survive that is, after all most of the population died off long ago from starvation, freezing to death or from the riots) with roofs shingled completely with solar material. They drive up to their house on an electric scooter that is recharged from their solar roof. If they are higher up the totem pole they may have a solar golf cart. But in either case, luck must still be on their side for without the sun shinning to charge it, their transportation sits idle. (Not much lead left to build big batteries...China gobbled it all up, so we have to make due with very small storage cells.) They work for the government and in exchange the government feeds and clothes them from their warehouses. You see, we have become a sort of 'Communist Democracy' for without that bold leap and a desire 'to put our country first' Russia or China would have stepped in to acquire some new real estate. The warehouses are fed from government owned coal fired steam locomotives. Diesel dried up long ago, so it was either wood or coal to fuel the trains. It did not take our government long to realize this. the electric plants only had to shut down sporadically for 8 months so until they could build the first of a large fleet of steam locomotives. This was a 'slight' government oversight. They never figured that the coal fired power plants were fed with 'diesel powered' locomotives. They kept concentrated on the prediction that we had a hundred of years of coal left, but were oblivious as to how that coal is delivered to the power plant. But all these changes have some bright spots in them. As the coal producers were able to hire many more workers to manually mine coal, as the diesel powered mining equipment sit idle from lack of diesel fuel. Now some of the states or bigger cities had the foresight to build one or two electric rail trolleys for public transport. Your only problem is getting to the main road to catch the trolley and then it is a straight ride to the government warehouse. What happened to Private industry & Money? Money is nothing more than stored energy. But since the crude dried up, the 'real energy' behind the money has vanished...and so did private industry. What about the coal mines...all government owned. If you want to eat you work..it is that simple. So, what is money good for nowadays...to wipe your ass? Not really, the government supplied toilet paper works better than that. Martha Stewart syndrome died out long ago, now people are happy to eat rice and beans and get a clean glass of water to drink. After all, the government can't afford to fool around decorating everyone's house, they can hardly produce enough food to keep a fraction of the population alive. Yes, tractors, reapers and farming is very crude intensive...but no one bothered to think about that as they continued to squander the worlds petroleum resources. On a positive note, since most of the population died off from 'natural causes', the government does not have to worry about passing 'population control' any longer. They tried to get that universally opposed program passed for many years, but the public just would not go for it...too UN-American...goes against our religious upbringings...too controversial and all of the rest. We can still hear the cries now...Communist!...Atheist!...Baby Killer....Hitler....Impeach the President!!!! Such objections are only subjective and prejudicial states of mind. As such, all problems related to 'controversial subjects' such as this are problems created in the mind...the mind of ego based, prejudicial man. If you find yourself being distracted with such thoughts as 'too controversial' just ask yourself if the proposed controversy is true, false or I don't know? This introspective method may help you become truth based and not ego based. You will have made a 'choice divorced of need'...you wont 'need your ego' to support the truth...the truth will be able to stand on its own. But nature helped us humans out with that hard decision - for nature does not discriminate nor find the truth too controversial or provocative or opinionated to be true. And in the end, nature settled the dispute of population control with even handed justice of 75% of our population dying off, ever reminding us all that nature does not bow to man...it is always man that bows to nature. But, people hold no grudges against nature and are more in harmony with nature and enjoy a simpler life nowadays. People pick pine needles from trees to make their tea, since there is no jet fuel to import any Darjeeling tea or coffee. Once in a while people are able to kill a bird, a rat or cat to supplement their diet - so we still can find a place of gratitude in our life for such gifts. Of course one problem still haunts the world? The last remaining buckets of crude will soon be gone and they have still not found out how to make the tires for the solar powered golf carts and scooters without that critical ingredient of crude oil? Add it all together and you have 'America...a Democratic, Communist Nation Under God.' as the 'best fit ' equation. And for dessert add 'politics as usual' and we can see nothing substantive will be done in the US to fix our energy woes until it is too late. (Really it can't be fixed, we can only slowed down the inevitable at this point.) See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F BTW, do I like communism? No, I like things EXACTLY as they are. But what I like doesn't matter...neither does what you like matter. That's the point, for the US to survive, we must put 'what matters to our country' on the front burner. And as our country survives so do we survive. Alan Watts used to say, it doesn't matter what you think, it doesn't matter what you like, it doesn't matter what you hope for...all that really matters is what IS. Sure we keep our treasured paper money, our guns, and what have you. The atheists can still be atheists and the Christians, Muslims and Jews can still worship as they like...that is why we would be a free democracy...of sorts. But the difference is, instead of the ego based decisions that politicians and the titans of business get sucked into, they will put the long term viability as top priority over personal profit. We must all pull together and stop pulling in counterproductive directions. The gov needs to cut the fat and stop all this foolish sickness that they are addicted to in Washington. Hire yourself some truth based philosophers and futurists as Socrates suggested in the Republic as an oversight committee to keep you guys on track. One important thing would be to add an addendum to the constitution or bill of rights or whatever other documents that outlines what we are 'now' all about...something that is clear advice that we can all look to and not the 1000 page BS that politician use to hide their sickness. And yes,...hiding behavior is a signpost of die-ease. And put it right upfront in the addendum as to why things changed...we were energy whores and had no other choice. But realize this, throughout history many great nations that once were are not around any longer. Hopefully the US will understand this and start accepting the truth that something has to give and it can't be business as usual...it doesn't matter what you like...it doesn't matter what you hope for...all that really matters is what is. See: http://www.algore.org/forum/al_gore_news_and_events/gores_work_combat_climate_crisis/why_dont_we_do_anything_about_global_ http://www.amazon.com/Out-Gas-End-Age-Oil/dp/0393058573 http://www.amazon.com/Hubberts-Peak-Impending-World-Shortage/dp/0691116253 http://www.lastoilshock.com/ http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/ http://www.amazon.com/Resource-Wars-Landscape-Conflict-Introduction/dp/0805055762 http://www.amazon.com/Long-Emergency-Converging-Catastrophes-Twenty-First/dp/0871138883 Take care, V (Male) Agnostic Freethinker Practical Philosopher Futurist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Christopher Helms Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 On Oct 28, 11:43 am, Bjorn <was-walmart-gree...@postamerica.net> wrote: > On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:29:24 -0700, AnAmericanCitizen > > <NoAmne...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > >Is there anyone that doesn't believe the illegals will simply once again come forward > >with their fraudulent paperwork and get a free pass (i.e., driver's license)?..AAC > > >Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York > >intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could > >do to stop it. > >"I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law > >does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. > > Very unhappy about this. You can bet your ass that these things will > be accepted for virtually everything, no matter what these snakes > claim. They will be handed across the desk for every purpose and > accepted by our f-ing civil employees. When this is implemented, I can > just see the bill in the California Assembly here the very next day, > declaring that these low-tier mojado DLs from NY will be acceptable > trade-ins for full California DLs. Of course that's going to happen. That's the idea. Democrats and Republicans like illegal immigration (regardless of public statements they may try to make to the contrary) and this is a great way to not only allow it but actually encourage it without admitting that that's what they're trying to do. "Oh, the federal government is just helpless to stop the states from doing this. Woe is us, we Feds can't do a gosh darned thing about it." Oh, really, Mr. Chertoff? They can and did keep federal highway funds away from states that refused to raise their drinking age to 21. They can and regularly do threaten to withold money from any state that displeases them in any way whatsoever. They can overrule state laws allowing the use of medical marijuana. They can declare your back yard a Wetland and deny you access to your own teeter totter. They can claim that your boat was used to smuggle drugs based on the coerced testimony of one jailed mentalcase and seize it without having to prove that you ever smuggled anything at all. They can declare any of us "Terror suspects" and jail us for the rest of our lives without ever having to prove anything. But they just can't do a darn thing about millions of illegal aliens getting drivers licenses (aka. Voting Licenses) in a state they have no business being in in the first place. At the first whiff of Cheap Labor the Almighty Federal Government is suddenly as helpless as a kitten in the wilderness. This is nothing if not completely predictable. They can stop it. They just don't want to. At least nobody is buying this "We're helpless" bullshit anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Christopher Helms Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 On Oct 28, 11:43 am, Bjorn <was-walmart-gree...@postamerica.net> wrote: > On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:29:24 -0700, AnAmericanCitizen > > <NoAmne...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > >Is there anyone that doesn't believe the illegals will simply once again come forward > >with their fraudulent paperwork and get a free pass (i.e., driver's license)?..AAC > > >Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York > >intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could > >do to stop it. > >"I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law > >does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. > > Very unhappy about this. You can bet your ass that these things will > be accepted for virtually everything, no matter what these snakes > claim. They will be handed across the desk for every purpose and > accepted by our f-ing civil employees. When this is implemented, I can > just see the bill in the California Assembly here the very next day, > declaring that these low-tier mojado DLs from NY will be acceptable > trade-ins for full California DLs. Of course that's going to happen. That's the idea. Democrats and Republicans like illegal immigration (regardless of public statements they may try to make to the contrary) and this is a great way to not only allow it but actually encourage it without admitting that that's what they're trying to do. "Oh, the federal government is just helpless to stop the states from doing this. Woe is us, we Feds can't do a gosh darned thing about it." Oh, really, Mr. Chertoff? They can and did keep federal highway funds away from states that refused to raise their drinking age to 21. They can and regularly do threaten to withold money from any state that displeases them in any way whatsoever. They can overrule state laws allowing the use of medical marijuana. They can declare your back yard a Wetland and deny you access to your own teeter totter. They can claim that your boat was used to smuggle drugs based on the coerced testimony of one jailed mentalcase and seize it without having to prove that you ever smuggled anything at all. They can declare any of us "Terror suspects" and jail us for the rest of our lives without ever having to prove anything. But they just can't do a darn thing about millions of illegal aliens getting drivers licenses (aka. Voting Licenses) in a state they have no business being in in the first place. At the first whiff of Cheap Labor the Almighty Federal Government is suddenly as helpless as a kitten in the wilderness. This is nothing if not completely predictable. They can stop it. They just don't want to. At least nobody is buying this "We're helpless" bullshit anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babeejm Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 On Oct 28, 12:29 am, AnAmericanCitizen <NoAmne...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Is there anyone that doesn't believe the illegals will simply once again come forward > with their fraudulent paperwork and get a free pass (i.e., driver's license)?..AAC > > Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York > intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could > do to stop it. > "I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law > does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. > > (Well, Mr. Chertoff, enforce laws on the books regarding illegal immigration, crack > down on employers who hire illegals and start a program of returning illegal aliens, > including those who have overstayed their visas and there will be a lot fewer > licenses for illegals.....AAC) > > "Besides being a massive defeat for the governor, I can't imagine many _ if any _ > illegal immigrants coming forward to get the driver's licenses, because they'd > basically be labeled as illegal," said New York Rep. Peter King, the top Republican > on the House Homeland Security Committee. > > (We'll just have to wait and see just how these licenses look.....) > > Newsday.com > Homeland Security strikes deal with New York on driver's licenses > By DEVLIN BARRETT > > Associated Press Writer > > 3:17 PM EDT, October 27, 2007 > > WASHINGTON > > The Bush administration and New York cut a deal Saturday to create a new generation > of super-secure driver's licenses for U.S. citizens, but also allow illegal > immigrants to get a version. > > New York is the fourth state to reach such an agreement on federally approved secure > licenses, after Arizona, Vermont and Washington. The issue is pressing for border > states, where new and tighter rules are soon to go into effect for crossings. > > The deal comes about one month after New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer announced a plan > whereby illegal immigrants with a valid foreign passport could obtain a license. > > Saturday's agreement with the Homeland Security Department will create a three-tier > license system in New York. It is the largest state to sign on so far to the > government's post-Sept. 11 effort to make identification cards more secure. > > Spitzer, who has faced much criticism on the issue, said the deal means New York > "will usher in the most secure licensing system in the nation." > > Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York > intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could > do to stop it. > > "I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law > does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. > > "It's going to be a big deal up in Buffalo, it's going to be a big deal on the > Canadian side of the border," Chertoff said. > > The governor made clear he is going forward with his plan allowing licenses for > illegal immigrants. But advocates on both sides of the debate said Spitzer had caved > to pressure by adopting the administration's stance on tighter security standards for > most driver's licenses. > > GOP Rep. Thomas Reynolds, who represents the Buffalo suburbs, said he was glad > Washington had heeded his concerns about border identification. But he said he feared > that Spitzer "is taking this state down a risky path" by giving any kind of license > to illegal immigrants. > > Under the compromise, New York will produce an "enhanced driver's license" that will > be as secure as a passport. It is intended for people who soon will need to meet such > ID requirements, even for a short drive to Canada. > > A second version of the license will meet new federal standards of the Real ID Act. > That law is designed to make it much harder for illegal immigrants or would-be > terrorists to obtain licenses. > > A third type of license will be available to undocumented immigrants. Spitzer has > said this ID will make the state more secure by bringing those people "out of the > shadows" and into American society, and will lower auto insurance rates. > > Those licenses will be clearly marked to show they are not valid federal ID. > Officials, however, would not say whether that meant local law enforcement could use > such a license as probable cause to detain someone they suspected of being in the > U.S. illegally. > > "Besides being a massive defeat for the governor, I can't imagine many _ if any _ > illegal immigrants coming forward to get the driver's licenses, because they'd > basically be labeled as illegal," said New York Rep. Peter King, the top Republican > on the House Homeland Security Committee. > > New York has between 500,000 and 1 million undocumented immigrants, many of whom are > driving without a license and car insurance or with fake driver's licenses, Spitzer > said in September when he announced his executive order. > > The administration has not finalized standards for Real ID-compliant driver's > licenses. Spitzer said he believed the new licenses would meet those standards or > come very close. > > Many states say it is too expensive to comply with the law; seven of them have passed > legislation opposing Real ID. Neither the governor nor Chertoff would say how much it > would cost to put the system in place or who would pay for it. > > Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties, said Spitzer's > move effectively revives a faltering ID program. "The governor's stunning lack of > courage is aiding the Bush administration in clamping down on civil liberties," > Lieberman said. >One of the strictest DMV's in the country is Virginia..No less that 3 proofs of citizenship are required not only to get a driver's license but an ID card as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babeejm Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 On Oct 28, 12:29 am, AnAmericanCitizen <NoAmne...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Is there anyone that doesn't believe the illegals will simply once again come forward > with their fraudulent paperwork and get a free pass (i.e., driver's license)?..AAC > > Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York > intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could > do to stop it. > "I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law > does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. > > (Well, Mr. Chertoff, enforce laws on the books regarding illegal immigration, crack > down on employers who hire illegals and start a program of returning illegal aliens, > including those who have overstayed their visas and there will be a lot fewer > licenses for illegals.....AAC) > > "Besides being a massive defeat for the governor, I can't imagine many _ if any _ > illegal immigrants coming forward to get the driver's licenses, because they'd > basically be labeled as illegal," said New York Rep. Peter King, the top Republican > on the House Homeland Security Committee. > > (We'll just have to wait and see just how these licenses look.....) > > Newsday.com > Homeland Security strikes deal with New York on driver's licenses > By DEVLIN BARRETT > > Associated Press Writer > > 3:17 PM EDT, October 27, 2007 > > WASHINGTON > > The Bush administration and New York cut a deal Saturday to create a new generation > of super-secure driver's licenses for U.S. citizens, but also allow illegal > immigrants to get a version. > > New York is the fourth state to reach such an agreement on federally approved secure > licenses, after Arizona, Vermont and Washington. The issue is pressing for border > states, where new and tighter rules are soon to go into effect for crossings. > > The deal comes about one month after New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer announced a plan > whereby illegal immigrants with a valid foreign passport could obtain a license. > > Saturday's agreement with the Homeland Security Department will create a three-tier > license system in New York. It is the largest state to sign on so far to the > government's post-Sept. 11 effort to make identification cards more secure. > > Spitzer, who has faced much criticism on the issue, said the deal means New York > "will usher in the most secure licensing system in the nation." > > Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he was not happy that New York > intended to issue IDs to illegal immigrants. But he said there was nothing he could > do to stop it. > > "I don't endorse giving licenses to people who are not here legally, but federal law > does allow states to make that choice," Chertoff said. > > "It's going to be a big deal up in Buffalo, it's going to be a big deal on the > Canadian side of the border," Chertoff said. > > The governor made clear he is going forward with his plan allowing licenses for > illegal immigrants. But advocates on both sides of the debate said Spitzer had caved > to pressure by adopting the administration's stance on tighter security standards for > most driver's licenses. > > GOP Rep. Thomas Reynolds, who represents the Buffalo suburbs, said he was glad > Washington had heeded his concerns about border identification. But he said he feared > that Spitzer "is taking this state down a risky path" by giving any kind of license > to illegal immigrants. > > Under the compromise, New York will produce an "enhanced driver's license" that will > be as secure as a passport. It is intended for people who soon will need to meet such > ID requirements, even for a short drive to Canada. > > A second version of the license will meet new federal standards of the Real ID Act. > That law is designed to make it much harder for illegal immigrants or would-be > terrorists to obtain licenses. > > A third type of license will be available to undocumented immigrants. Spitzer has > said this ID will make the state more secure by bringing those people "out of the > shadows" and into American society, and will lower auto insurance rates. > > Those licenses will be clearly marked to show they are not valid federal ID. > Officials, however, would not say whether that meant local law enforcement could use > such a license as probable cause to detain someone they suspected of being in the > U.S. illegally. > > "Besides being a massive defeat for the governor, I can't imagine many _ if any _ > illegal immigrants coming forward to get the driver's licenses, because they'd > basically be labeled as illegal," said New York Rep. Peter King, the top Republican > on the House Homeland Security Committee. > > New York has between 500,000 and 1 million undocumented immigrants, many of whom are > driving without a license and car insurance or with fake driver's licenses, Spitzer > said in September when he announced his executive order. > > The administration has not finalized standards for Real ID-compliant driver's > licenses. Spitzer said he believed the new licenses would meet those standards or > come very close. > > Many states say it is too expensive to comply with the law; seven of them have passed > legislation opposing Real ID. Neither the governor nor Chertoff would say how much it > would cost to put the system in place or who would pay for it. > > Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties, said Spitzer's > move effectively revives a faltering ID program. "The governor's stunning lack of > courage is aiding the Bush administration in clamping down on civil liberties," > Lieberman said. >One of the strictest DMV's in the country is Virginia..No less that 3 proofs of citizenship are required not only to get a driver's license but an ID card as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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