New submachine gun could shake up the firearms world

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=134495&ran=238163&lpos=spot3&lid=homePO

New submachine gun could shake up the firearms world

[Video at link above]

October 12, 2007

His Ford Crown Victoria disabled by hostile fire, driver Tom Maffin

scrambled from the car, crouched behind the hood and sprayed a target with

automatic gunfire to cover for a passenger.

Maffin's weapon: a KRISS Super V .45-caliber submachine gun.

If you're military or law enforcement and haven't heard of it, chances are

you soon will.

Maffin is senior gunsmith for Transformational Defense Industries Inc., a

weapons technology firm that conducts its research and development from a

Virginia Beach office park near Lynnhaven Mall.

By early next year, the Washington-based TDI plans to open a production

facility in Virginia Beach to begin manufacturing the submachine gun for

police and military use and a .45-caliber semi automatic carbine for the

commercial shooting market.

Industry experts say the weapons are unlike any other now on the market and

could shake up the firearms world.

What makes the weapons special, company and industry officials say, is a new

patented operating system that substantially reduces recoil and muzzle climb

when fired.

The recoil, or kick, of a conventional weapon is directed backward into a

shooter's shoulder, causing the gun to rise off target. TDI's "Super V"

bolt-and-slide mechanism directs the energy downward in front of the

trigger.

Company tests indicate the mechanism reduces recoil by 40 to 60 percent and

muzzle rise by about 95 percent over conventional gun operating systems.

At a Thursday demonstration for media at a Blackwater USA firing range in

Moyock, officials said their system improves accuracy and reduces user

fatigue. The submachine gun can be fired with one hand and remain on target.

"This is the future of weapons right here," said Andrew Finn, TDI's senior

vice president.

TDI has worked with the Army and special operations forces to develop the

technology. It uses Blackwater's facilities to field test the weapons.

Officials set up the disabled vehicle scenario to demonstrate the

maneuverability and firepower of the .45-caliber submachine gun, which TDI

says is ideal for close-quarter situations the police and military encounter

in urban settings.

The gun, which weighs about 5 pounds unloaded and collapses to a length of

16 inches, can be easily carried in helicopters, Humvees and other vehicles,

said Maffin, a retired Marine who began working at TDI's Virginia Beach

operation about a year ago.

"Seeing this product for the first time in my interview, I was sold," Maffin

said. "It's got the knockdown power a lot of guys want."

Members of the media at the Thursday event, heavy in such trade publications

as Guns & Ammo and Small Arms Review magazines, were allowed to shoot the

submachine gun and the carbine.

"The reduction in recoil is absolutely amazing," said Wendy Henry, who works

in Pennsylvania for Women In Scope, a TV series that promotes women's

awareness of firearms. "It's very easy to maintain your control over it."

Frank Borelli, a law enforcement and military consultant in Maryland, said

the weapon is "going to rock the firearms industry." He has fired the TDI

submachine gun but did not attend the event.

"What they're doing is very different," Borelli said.

Some industry experts question whether the company will make significant

inroads with military and police, which have moved away from submachine

guns - in part because their pistol-caliber rounds can't pierce body armor.

The gun's price tag - now expected to retail in the $1,200-to-$1,300 range -

also could chill sales.

Company officials said interest is high, noting that they worked with the

Army's Picatinny armament research and development arsenal in New Jersey to

develop the technology.

These guns are the first product that TDI, a five-year-old subsidiary of

Switzerland-based Gamma Research and Technologies Holding SA, has brought to

market.

Chuck Kushell, TDI's chief executive officer and director, said the Virginia

Beach operation, dubbed Viking Works, will grow once production starts in

January or February.

Currently, eight engineers, machinists and gunsmiths work in a

4,000-square-foot facility. Kushell said he expects to more than double the

space and add 15 to 20 employees as the company ramps up over the next few

months.

To reach the civilian market, the company developed the .45-caliber carbine.

Plans call for marketing it primarily to shooting enthusiasts who would use

it for competitions and target practice, but it also could be used for

hunting.

"This is not going to be a gun for everyone," Kushell said.

Company officials said the Super V mechanism can be adapted to any caliber

weapon. Work currently is under way on a 12-gauge shotgun. And the company

has won an Army contract valued at a little over $1 million to develop a

lighter-weight, more user-friendly .50-caliber machine gun, Kushell said.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:21:58 -0400, "Patriot Games"

<Patriot@America.com> wrote:

>http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=134495&ran=238163&lpos=spot3&lid=homePO

>

>New submachine gun could shake up the firearms world

>[Video at link above]

>

>October 12, 2007

>

>His Ford Crown Victoria disabled by hostile fire, driver Tom Maffin

>scrambled from the car, crouched behind the hood and sprayed a target with

>automatic gunfire to cover for a passenger.

>

>Maffin's weapon: a KRISS Super V .45-caliber submachine gun.

>

>If you're military or law enforcement and haven't heard of it, chances are

>you soon will.

>

>Maffin is senior gunsmith for Transformational Defense Industries Inc., a

>weapons technology firm that conducts its research and development from a

>Virginia Beach office park near Lynnhaven Mall.

>

>By early next year, the Washington-based TDI plans to open a production

>facility in Virginia Beach to begin manufacturing the submachine gun for

>police and military use and a .45-caliber semi automatic carbine for the

>commercial shooting market.

>

>Industry experts say the weapons are unlike any other now on the market and

>could shake up the firearms world.

>

>What makes the weapons special, company and industry officials say, is a new

>patented operating system that substantially reduces recoil and muzzle climb

>when fired.

In a submachinegun sized weapon, they'd want to be sure that

they could radically reduce muzzle climb if the weapon is to be .45

caliber.

>

>The recoil, or kick, of a conventional weapon is directed backward into a

>shooter's shoulder, causing the gun to rise off target.

Actually, it's backward and slightly upward. Also, some

firearms have already been designed to direct more of the recoil

energy straight backwards rather than up, such as the Heckler & Koch

P-10 series of pistols. The bore is almost directly in line with the

shooters arm bones, meaning that there is far less upward recoil than

with pistols not so designed.

A British inventor in the '50s came up with a radical recoil

reduction method for shoulder fired weapons, and proved it worked by

firing a .50 caliber machine gun on full auto from the shoulder

without losing control. The gun was also actually quite light in

comparison to many other designs then extant.

>TDI's "Super V"

>bolt-and-slide mechanism directs the energy downward in front of the

>trigger.

There was a submachinegun type weapon developed years ago

called the "SPECTRE" which was supposed to redirect recoil energy very

well so there would be little if any muzzle climb, but I don't recall

that it caught on very well.

>

>Company tests indicate the mechanism reduces recoil by 40 to 60 percent and

>muzzle rise by about 95 percent over conventional gun operating systems.

>

>At a Thursday demonstration for media at a Blackwater USA firing range in

>Moyock, officials said their system improves accuracy and reduces user

>fatigue. The submachine gun can be fired with one hand and remain on target.

Most often, when SMGs are used on full auto, it's recommended

that bursts of no more than 3 rounds be fired, to conserve ammunition.

Further, target reacquisition time for professionals is not

significantly affected by normal firing, so this wouldn't represent a

quantum leap in capability except for those who are not trained at

all, or ill trained to begin with.

I recall that there was a weapon designed back in the '90s

that was supposedly to improve accuracy, although it was later

admitted by company spokespeople that it was really designed to give

non or ill trained operators a first shot hit probably of 90% or

greater. The weapon was a medium powered 5.7mm one, and the cartridge

was not nearly as powerful as the 5.56mm round fired by the M-16 and

NATO standard weapons.

This seems be the technological mirror of the trend by some

groups to want civilians to be policing civilians. Under the Bush

administration, "private security" companies have greatly improved

their bottom lines, while providing ignorant kids in their late teens

and early 20s with a firearm and the assurance that they have police

authority within limited areas. Real police have not been favorable

toward this at all, and why should they be? It's only so the job of

policing can be done without the "police" actually making a decent

wage.

>

>"This is the future of weapons right here," said Andrew Finn, TDI's senior

>vice president.

>

>TDI has worked with the Army and special operations forces to develop the

>technology. It uses Blackwater's facilities to field test the weapons.

>

>Officials set up the disabled vehicle scenario to demonstrate the

>maneuverability and firepower of the .45-caliber submachine gun, which TDI

>says is ideal for close-quarter situations the police and military encounter

>in urban settings.

>

>The gun, which weighs about 5 pounds unloaded and collapses to a length of

>16 inches, can be easily carried in helicopters, Humvees and other vehicles,

>said Maffin, a retired Marine who began working at TDI's Virginia Beach

>operation about a year ago.

>

>"Seeing this product for the first time in my interview, I was sold," Maffin

>said. "It's got the knockdown power a lot of guys want."

>

>Members of the media at the Thursday event, heavy in such trade publications

>as Guns & Ammo and Small Arms Review magazines, were allowed to shoot the

>submachine gun and the carbine.

>

>"The reduction in recoil is absolutely amazing," said Wendy Henry, who works

>in Pennsylvania for Women In Scope, a TV series that promotes women's

>awareness of firearms. "It's very easy to maintain your control over it."

>

>Frank Borelli, a law enforcement and military consultant in Maryland, said

>the weapon is "going to rock the firearms industry." He has fired the TDI

>submachine gun but did not attend the event.

>

>"What they're doing is very different," Borelli said.

>

>Some industry experts question whether the company will make significant

>inroads with military and police, which have moved away from submachine

>guns - in part because their pistol-caliber rounds can't pierce body armor.

>The gun's price tag - now expected to retail in the $1,200-to-$1,300 range -

>also could chill sales.

>

>Company officials said interest is high, noting that they worked with the

>Army's Picatinny armament research and development arsenal in New Jersey to

>develop the technology.

>

>These guns are the first product that TDI, a five-year-old subsidiary of

>Switzerland-based Gamma Research and Technologies Holding SA, has brought to

>market.

>

>Chuck Kushell, TDI's chief executive officer and director, said the Virginia

>Beach operation, dubbed Viking Works, will grow once production starts in

>January or February.

>

>Currently, eight engineers, machinists and gunsmiths work in a

>4,000-square-foot facility. Kushell said he expects to more than double the

>space and add 15 to 20 employees as the company ramps up over the next few

>months.

>

>To reach the civilian market, the company developed the .45-caliber carbine.

>Plans call for marketing it primarily to shooting enthusiasts who would use

>it for competitions and target practice, but it also could be used for

>hunting.

>

>"This is not going to be a gun for everyone," Kushell said.

>

>Company officials said the Super V mechanism can be adapted to any caliber

>weapon. Work currently is under way on a 12-gauge shotgun. And the company

>has won an Army contract valued at a little over $1 million to develop a

>lighter-weight, more user-friendly .50-caliber machine gun, Kushell said.

>

As long as they don't do something stupid like try to shave

off weight by making the barrel half aluminum, they should be able to

get a good .50 caliber weapon going. I remember reading an article by

(naturally) someone in the popular gun press about how great the AR-10

rifle was, what a natural pointer it was in it's original

configuration, etc. He lamented the fact that after the barrel warmed

up, however, the aluminum and steel components would separate and

rounds would go through the wall of the barrel, rather than exiting

the muzzle. Well, yeah, that would tend to dampen the enthusiasm of

the average plinker, I would think.

Patriot Games, I know you enjoy hearing about the latest

developments in firearms, and so do I, but many being designed now

aren't being designed to make the American fighting man meaner on

foreign battlefields, but to make sure that idiots with no knowledge

of law, let alone constitutional law, can serve as "police" and be

effective with the firearms they're given. It's not like Darth Vader

is running the show yet (although Darth Cheney is to a great degree),

but this is an obvious trend, and neither this weapon nor it's

designers or the owners of the company have anything to do with your

freedom to bear arms, you can bet.

"Scotius" <yodasbud@mnsi.net-hs> wrote in message

news:u3t3o3dgoa5q70vfuhk2qujq10c6fha8v5@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:21:58 -0400, "Patriot Games"

> <Patriot@America.com> wrote:

>>http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=134495&ran=238163&lpos=spot3&lid=homePO

>>New submachine gun could shake up the firearms world

>>[Video at link above]

>>October 12, 2007

> In a submachinegun sized weapon, they'd want to be sure that

> they could radically reduce muzzle climb if the weapon is to be .45

> caliber.

They did. Its in the video.

> As long as they don't do something stupid like try to shave

> off weight by making the barrel half aluminum, they should be able to

> get a good .50 caliber weapon going. I remember reading an article by

> (naturally) someone in the popular gun press about how great the AR-10

> rifle was, what a natural pointer it was in it's original

> configuration, etc. He lamented the fact that after the barrel warmed

> up, however, the aluminum and steel components would separate and

> rounds would go through the wall of the barrel, rather than exiting

> the muzzle. Well, yeah, that would tend to dampen the enthusiasm of

> the average plinker, I would think.

> Patriot Games, I know you enjoy hearing about the latest

> developments in firearms, and so do I, but many being designed now

> aren't being designed to make the American fighting man meaner on

> foreign battlefields, but to make sure that idiots with no knowledge

> of law, let alone constitutional law, can serve as "police" and be

> effective with the firearms they're given. It's not like Darth Vader

> is running the show yet (although Darth Cheney is to a great degree),

> but this is an obvious trend, and neither this weapon nor it's

> designers or the owners of the company have anything to do with your

> freedom to bear arms, you can bet.

We're seeing more and more bad guys go to full-auto against police. The

police don't stand a chance with conventional handguns and conventional body

armor.

They need small and lightweight and something that sprays fast.