D
Dr. Jai Maharaj
Guest
Once the most beloved country in the world, the US is now
the most hated
The American swagger has become bombast, the ****y GI a
bully. But with luck the pendulum may be ready to swing
back
By Jan Morris
The Guardian
Wednesday, February 14, 2007
'Whisper of how I'm yearning", sang George M Cohan in one
of the great American songs of nostalgia, "to mingle with
the old time throng". Well, I'm yearning too, not for the
gang at 42nd Street exactly, but for the America that Cohan
was indirectly hymning -- for the Idea of America, with a
capital I, which once made the United States not just the
most potent of all the nations but genuinely the most
liked.
Perhaps, with a future new president already champing at
the bit, we are about to witness its rebirth. As a
foreigner I am immune to the rivalries or seductions of
American party politics, but I have loved the old place for
60 years, and I simply pray for an American leader to give
us back its baraka, as the Arabs say -- nothing to do with
religion or economics or power or even ideology, but the
gift of being at once blessed and blessing.
Of course nobody can claim that the old dreams of America
were ever perfectly fulfilled. They often let us down. They
were betrayed by the national reputations for crime,
corruption, racism and rampant materialism. Not all the
presidents, God knows, were icons of virtue or even of
glamour, and the benevolent Uncle Sam of the old
cartoonists was more often interpreted, around the world,
as a fat moron in horn-rimmed spectacles, chewing a cigar.
Nobody's perfect, still less any republic.
But I think it is true that only in our time has the
American Idea lost its baraka. A generation or two ago,
most of us, wherever we lived, loved the generous self-
satisfaction of it, if not in the general, at least in the
particular. The GI was not then a sort of goggled monster
in padded armour, but a cheerful fellow chatting up the
girls and distributing candy not as a matter of policy, but
out of plain goodwill -- everyone's friendly guy next door.
To millions of radio listeners around the world, the Voice
of America was a voice of decency, and one could watch the
lachrymose patriotic rituals of America -- the hand on
heart, the misty-eyed salute to the flag -- with more
affection than irony.
For myself, I responded to them all too sentimentally. Like
Walt Whitman before me, I heard America sing! I relished
the hackneyed old lyrics -- Mine eyes have seen the glory,
Thy word our law, Thy paths our chosen way, Oe'r the land
of the free and the home of the brave, God bless America,
land that I love ... Most of the words were flaccid, many
of the tunes were vulgar, but as I heard them I saw always
in my mind's eye, as Whitman did, all the glorious space,
grandeur and opportunity that was America, Manhattan to LA.
Sea, in fact, to shining sea.
In those days we did not think of American evangelists as
prophets of political extremism -- they seemed more akin to
the homely convictions of plantation or village chapel than
to the machinations of neocons. We bridled rather at the
American assumption that the US of A had been the only true
victor of the second world war, but most of us did not very
deeply resent the happy swagger of the legend and danced
gratefully enough to the American rhythms of the time. We
thought it all seemed essentially innocent.
Innocent! Dear God! Half a century, and nobody thinks that
now. Far from being the most beloved country on earth,
today the US is the most thoroughly detested. The rot
really started to set in, in my view, with Abraham Lincoln,
one of the most admirable men who ever lived. He it was who
saw in American glory the duty of a mission. America, he
declared, was the last best hope of earth. The pursuit of
happiness was not its national vocation, but the example of
democracy. The more like the United States the world
became, the better the world would be. No statesman was
ever more sincere or kindly in his beliefs, but poor old
Abe would be horrified to see how his interpretation of
destiny has gone sour.
For the missionary instinct, which impelled Americans into
so many noble policies, was to be perverted by power. Pace
Lincoln, America was not necessarily the last best hope of
mankind, and the knowledge that it has possessed
unchallengable powers of interference has distorted its
attitude to the world and cruelly damaged its image in
return.
Isolationism was not a very estimable stance, but
interfereism is not much more attractive. In humanity's
eye, the swagger has become bombast and the ****y GI has
become a bully.
But there is a difference between image and idea. One is a
projection, the other an absolute. Public relations people,
tabloid newspapers, spin doctors and entertainers can all
fiddle with the image of America, but the idea of it
remains constant -- overlaid, perhaps, dormant, even
forgotten, but always there. Everyone who visits America
feels it -- every package tourist returns to tell their
neighbours how nice the Americans are, how different from
their reputation. And what they are all sensing, half-
hidden behind the image of America, is the presence of the
Idea, with a capital I.
When I first went to the United States in the 1950s, I
impertinently remarked to an archetypal guru, Chief Justice
Felix Frankfurter, that what with Senator McCarthy and
southern segregation, and civic corruption everywhere, I
was not much impressed by the condition of America. Be
patient, said the sage. America is like a pendulum,
swinging from good to bad, from bad to good, and before
long it will swing again.
He was right, and with luck, perhaps the pendulum is almost
ready to swing back once more. Whatever we may think in our
moments of despair, America is still a marvellous and
lovable country whose patriotism can still be touching: try
restraining a tear when you listen to Irving Berlin's
setting of the words on the Statue of Liberty -- the
ultimate American text, with music by the emblematic
American immigrant. The Great Republic is great still, full
still of decent clever people trying to be good. Even now,
it is as free as can be expected, and its democracy is
fundamentally honest and robust. It laughs at itself,
criticises itself and dislikes itself just as much as we
do.
All it needs is someone with a key to unlock that Idea
again, and I hope it will be that next president, whoever
it is, even now gearing up for the election. Please God,
may it be a poetic president. Inspiration has been the true
engine of American success, and all its greatest presidents
have been people with a divine spark. The dullards may have
been efficient, respected or influential, but the
Jeffersons and the Roosevelts, the Lincolns and the
Kennedys have all been, in their different ways, artists.
So may it be a president with the key of original
inspiration who can release the Idea from its occlusion.
All the ingredients are still there, after all -- the
kindness, the imagination, the merriment, the will, the
talent, the energy, the goddam orneriness, the plain
goodness -- all there waiting to burst out once more and
bring us back our America, blessed and blessing too.
"Give our regards to old Broadway", sang Cohan, "And say
that I'll be there ere long." So will we, so will we, just
as soon as America comes home.
o Jan Morris is a historian, travel writer and former
Guardian correspondent. Her first book was Coast to Coast:
A Journey Across 1950s America and the most recent Trieste
and the Meaning of Nowhere
Comments
DJLudwigvan
February 14, 2007 1:23 AM
With luck indeed. Sadly, and frighteningly, the neocons who still have
Bush's ear may yet condemn all chance in the near-term of the pendulum
swinging back by bombing Iran, which they really want to do because they
need an external enemy to justify their existence and to cover up their
lies and failings. The current conservative anti-intellectual tenor of the
US media outlets (CNN, Fox "News") ruling the airwaves doesn't help by
following their lead hook, line and sinker.
But the victory of the Democrats in the midterm elections is a small hope,
and hopefully the first step in a painfully long journey towards something
resembling sanity. Most Americans are indeed not as extreme as the current
wave of media bigots like Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Michael
Savage and the other prophets of hate who shout the loudest, and thus get
heard. Moderation, from both Democrats and Republicans, doesn't make for
very sexy TV or sound bites.
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JamesMackay
February 14, 2007 1:23 AM
Just to check -- this is the America founded on an unprecedented land grab
that dispossessed countless millions of Native peoples?
The American Dream was a good sales pitch, but with the Cold War over it's
no longer necessary for anyone outside the US to follow America's vision of
itself.
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marksa
February 14, 2007 1:43 AM
I don't know if the US was ever the 'most beloved', it sounds somewhat
fanciful. But its certainly true that after 1945, for a short time anyway,
the US has a strong anti-imperialist image with its call for
decolonisation. The European states were discredited and tarred with
warmongering and colonialism, before they did the rapid switcheroo to
pacifism. Even Ho Chi Minh wrote to the US president asking for assistance
against the colonist French evildoers.
But I don't know if the US will ever recover this mythic image that you
speak of, the economics has changed far too much for this to really happen.
When the US accounted for 50% of the Worlds GDP you tend to forgive it a
lot of things, Vietnam etc. Its now at 23% and no longer the land of
boundless opportunity, well there are other places opening up. Like Vietnam
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Mainhatten
February 14, 2007 1:49 AM
" .......but the idea of it remains constant -- overlaid, perhaps, dormant,
even forgotten, but always there. Everyone who vists America feels it --
every package tourist returns to tell their neighbours how nice the
Americans are, how different from their reputation. And what they are
sensing, half-hidden behind the image of America, is the presence of the
idea, with a capital I"
The American pathos is still going strong. Their concept of liberalism and
secularism hasn't turned its back on decency. But most of all, America
hasn't betrayed its roots!
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wikipedia
February 14, 2007 2:01 AM
"Give us back its baraka (the gift of being at once blessed and blessing)"?
As in Barack Obama? Pendulum about to swing? Next president? Poetic
president? Divine spark...artist...kay of original inspiration? (Yes,
Guardian readers can connect dots when they're that big and practically
fluorescent.) http://www.barackobama.com/
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Cartier
February 14, 2007 2:08 AM
Nostalgia and romanticism about a glorious imagined past is what got us
into this mess in the first place. If people in general, and journalists in
particular, were more willing to ask the tough questions, and criticise the
wrong decisions that the U.S government has specialised in making, we might
not need the rose-tinted glasses. But they don't. Instead, we have this
constant wishy-washy portrayal of the beautiful errant child who needs only
a loving hand and a quiet word to correct its naughty ways. Sorry, that's
not going to work. Cutting the US too much slack has created an out of
control monster. We have allowed them to get away with murder; brutal,
heartless, unjustified murder. In our name. And we continue to do nothing
but sigh and reminisce and hope the "pendulum swings the other way." Dream
on.
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GiantsandRedskins
February 14, 2007 2:19 AM
..... this is the America founded on an unprecedented land grab that
dispossessed countless millions of Native people"
Wasicu sni washte yelo, eh? Your sentiments exactly, I take it? Once you
have gotten a hold of yourself you might like to take a look at World
history. From time immemorial it has been about territory -- whatever one's
ethnic affiliation -- it's about territory. Or do you think that the
Ancient Egyptians and Persians, for example, were in into the "land grab"
for anything else? And although the fate of the Native American was a harsh
and severe one, it was also a natural process. Darwin's "survival of the
fittest" theory may be cruel to some but it sums up human existence to a T.
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imamba
February 14, 2007 2:25 AM
I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with the premise of this article. What is
taking place now in America is very similar to what happened Germany in the
30s. I served in the South African Army in WW2 and when my division was in
Italy most of the time we were attached to the US 5th Army. I have very
fond memories of the Americans of that time. However when I look at the US
now I see a "Nazi" America fomenting wars using the Hitlerian big lie.
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bessaroth
February 14, 2007 3:15 AM
"The last best hope of earth (or mankind )" is attributed to Lincoln.A half
century ago, the threat to freedom ( still much denied by some of those who
haunt the GUT) was the USSR.That threat is gone, and who can deny that
America was largely responsible?Today,the civilized world is faced with
another threat, different in character but perhaps more insidious, and who
would Ms Morris propose we should look to save the West? The Belgian army,
perhaps?America is hated because all others, who were once capable of
resisting, are impotent.Another relevant quote.Freud said of a former
friend, turned disloyal. "Why does he hate me? I've never done anything for
him".
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USSteveW
February 14, 2007 3:30 AM
As an American, all I can say is -- I hope so too.
And thanks for not giving up all hope on us.
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Teacup
February 14, 2007 3:36 AM
"Everyone who vists America feels it -- every package tourist returns to
tell their neighbours how nice the Americans are, how different from their
reputation."
True enough, and that is the sad thing about the present US government, how
deeply they have let the American people down. Like you, I hope that the
pendulum swings the other way. I am not reminded of Nazi Germany, but
MacCarthy America. The US came out of that, I hope it will regain its
equilibrium again, SOON.
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JimmyKR
February 14, 2007 3:38 AM
I think you're being a tad pesimistic imamba. The popularity of the Nazis
was booming in the 30s while now in America the presidents approval rating
is plunging to now around 30% and the Republicans were just handed a
devastating defeat in the November elections. Speaking as an American I
would just ask the world to remember the extrodinary set of circumstances
that led us to this point. Most Americans who voted in the 2000
presidential election did not vote for Bush he was put into office thanks
to a quirk of our Republic (only the 3rd time in history if Im correct). On
September 10th it was a virtual lock that W would be a one term president
with minimal harm done. After that the president was able to use a shell
shocked nation to settle his score with Saddam. This will be remembered as
a tragic period in American history but with any luck it will be a short
one.
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LairdKeir
February 14, 2007 3:48 AM
"I don't know if the US was ever the 'most beloved'" How about during the
Paris Peace Conference of 1919? It was the only country with the moral,
political and economic weight to have changed the world for the better, and
most felt a deep loss that the US hadn't joined the League of Nations but
went back to its isolationism. lairdkeir.spaces.live.com
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Parsian
February 14, 2007 3:49 AM
Most people hate the US foreign policy, but not the American people. It
shall remain the same unless the US changes its foreign policy especially
in the Middle East. Unfortunately, the Democrats do not have a better
foreign policy.
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jacksonjones
February 14, 2007 4:00 AM
James Mackay -- as a general comment (which dovetails with my response to
your daft comments) I cannot stand Bush and the neo-cons and neither can I
stand christian fundamentalists (or, in fact any religous fundamentalist)
but to blame this on all Americans is ridiculous. As has been pointed out
in earlier posts we have not acted as a sufficient check on America and we
need to sort out our own house first (and take our share of the
responsibility for this).
As a specific response to you daft comments -- these americans you accuse
of a mass land grab and the displacement of millions of native indians etc
WERE EUROPEANS! To accuse the people of America today of being the same
people who committed near-genocide is to accuse me of being responsible for
slavery and accusing my German pals of being Nazis.
So, to use an American phrase "Go figure"...as it seems to me you're just
an ignorant, rabid anti-US fool.
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disrealian
February 14, 2007 4:00 AM
Good piece Jan. To the guy criticising you for not being an investigative
reporter- as I understand it you write travel books and there is room for
every kind of journalism not just one in the world. I think you are right
in the sense that the tide will turn inside America- but also teh tide will
turn out here. Don't forget that Clinton was incredibly unpopular in
Europe- Herve de Charette the French foreign Minister coined the word
hyperpower about his America. I suspect this has a lot to do with power and
as American power fades in the next century and China in particular rises,
so we will rediscover the things that make America good not bad.
http://gracchii.blogspot.com
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Cartier
February 14, 2007 4:01 AM
Not quite sure why bessaroth is attacking Jan Morris... she's on your side.
And for those, like JimmyKR, who hope that Bush will soon be nothing but a
bad memory, I say "wake up". As a historian, Jan Morris should, more than
most, be able to quote extansively from US history, from the Federalist
Papers, from the writings of Jefferson and Lincoln and Tom Paine. Having
done so, she should be able to draw an ideological line from their words
and those ambitions, to the reality of America today... and realise that
the line points inexorably downward... away from freedom, away from
equality, away from democratic principle. Bush is just the latest, lowest
point on that line. It's not suddenly going to point upwards again. In
fact, just wait and see what kind of bitterness, bile, division and
ultimately political mayhem now await, as a woman and a black man lead the
race for the White House. The true nature of American culture is about to
be brutally exposed, and it's going to be ugly.
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ScepticOptimist
February 14, 2007 4:02 AM
First I want to say that I have spent a considerable amount (several years
in total) of time living and working all over the US.
I can still clearly remember my first trip 20 years ago when I spent a
summer on a J1 student visa working in Detroit. Why Detroit ? Simply
because one of my sisters was living there at the time. The most striking
image is of my first bus ride from my sister's house (in an area called
Hamtramck) to Downtown where I had got a job waiting in a restaurant.
It was with a mix of astonishment and horror that as we passed out of my
neighborhood there was this burnt out ring that (I later found out) had not
been rebuilt since the 1967 riots.
In my youthful naivety I asked one of my co-workers why in a country as
rich as the US such slums could still exist, his response -- "because it's
Black". In case you were wondering, the guy was White.
10 years later I spent a few months working in a 'blue-chip' company's
manufacturing plant in New Mexico that has over 5000 employees. Again I was
amazed. Rather than sitting with their team colleagues at lunch, the work
canteen seem to split along racial lines with Hispanics, Blacks and Whites
all sitting in separate groups.
Now I don't for a moment pretend that the racial problems in Europe are
much better, but simply relate these anecdotes to illustrate the point that
the reality of America falls far short of the ideals of America.
You see I genuinely believe in the American Ideal of a secular democratic
free society. The famous paragraph in the Declaration of Independence sums
it up quite well.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."
It is an Ideal that most countries can benefit from emulating. The problem
is of course with the reality of what kind of country America is today.
Undoubtedly it is the wealthiest and the most powerful and for the most
part a pretty good towards it's own citizens. However, how benign is it's
influence in the rest of the world?
Any government's ultimate responsibility is to it's own people. It would be
negligent if it did not protect it's self interests, but how far can this
go ? Europe enslaved half the world for it's self enrichment. Is that
attitude justifiable in the 21st century?
My problem when talking to Americans is that they tend to believe their own
propaganda -- the Hollywood imagery of them being the guys with white hats.
Very few have traveled outside of North America (and consequently
frightening ignorant about the world outside their borders) and even fewer
question what the see and read in the Media.
I don't pretend to know what the answer is. Maybe a bloody war and
thousands of American casualties is the only way they can be forced to take
a step back and look closely at themselves. Obviously not a good way for it
to happen though.
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acarsaid
February 14, 2007 4:07 AM
JamesMackay wrote:
"this is the America founded on an unprecedented land grab that
dispossessed countless millions of Native peoples?"
It is a good thing for Mr MacKay that ignorance is no bar to blogging on
the Guardian; if he were to look at a map he could see how much more of the
world the Russians (i.e. the Muscovites) seized. Starting with a piss-ant
little state around a piss-ant little town (Moscow) they -- the Czars --
went west to the Vistula and east to Canada. They sold Alaska to the
Americans, remember?
To a confirmed Yankee hater such as Mr Mackay, facts are useful, sometimes,
but certainly not indispensible.
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ChrisMorrison
February 14, 2007 4:10 AM
There are actually at least two Americas. One of them is the militaristic
anti-intellectualistic anti-artistic superstitious one with its combination
of literalistic religion with social Darwinism as economics. The other one
is the old idealistic vision of a good moral life, of tolerance and freedom
and the idea that in helping your neighbour you are helping yourself. Most
of the Democratic presidential candidates are trying to steer America back
toward the second America. We can only hope that they will succeed, and
that any Republican vision will be their own version of the second America.
It is only when America, or any country, loses confidence in its ability to
lead and to interact freely with the rest of the world that it finds it
necessary to lead through fear and force. But ultimately this is self-
defeating. America has simply had another of its periodic moments of being
mentally indisposed. They will happen again, of course, but hopefully the
world will be organised in such a way that such moments of madness will be
shorter and cause less damage to the people of the nations that suffer them
as well as the rest of the world. America isn't the only nation that
suffers crazy spells, but it is a very large bull in what is becomming a
very small world china shop.
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Abushams
February 14, 2007 4:12 AM
If you had a positive view on America you are a"Historian " who believes
what the goverment autorized books tell him , very dangerous and common . I
grew up with the stories from my grandfather and granduncle how the
Americans betrayed their resistance group to the Nazi's during the last
year of WW2 , a claim your fellow "historians" of the Dutch "institute of
war documentation " have refused (or have been forbidden to by all those
puppet goverments we have had since 1945) to examine . A situation rather
simular to the dead of Shah Masood in Afganistan which made place for the
puppet Karzai.
If Barack makes it he must have sold his soul already to te group of
intrests/companies that uses the democratic party as a front ,which include
many weapon industries whowill demand wars and treaths
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ChicagoPaco
February 14, 2007 4:13 AM
I live in the USA and believe the country deserves every bit of criticism
it gets. All too often one hears how they don't hate the people only the
policies. Unfortunately that relieves the electorate of the role they
played in electing bush and believed everything his henchmen said. The
policies are made by those they elected and, sadly, support.
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RedPanda
February 14, 2007 4:14 AM
I'm afraid that many people around the world look on the US as being like
the terrifying capricious and almost infinitely powerful little boy in
Jerome Bixby's story, "It's a Good Life".
It's important to remember that the present government does not represent a
majority of the American people. Gore got more votes than Bush in 2000, and
Bush was elected in 2004, by the narrowest margin ever for a sitting US
president, only because he had the inertia of being the incumbent. (Not to
mention certain "irregularities" about both elections.) Many Americans
rejected Bush's narrow-minded arrogance all along, and more and more have
come to agree. Some 70% of us disagree with his handling of the war, and I
think about that many now believe that it was a mistake in the first place.
There is also more opposition to his domestic policies and spending
priorities.
Many of us have been hoping, and fighting, to get our country back, and
hope that the elections in November were the beginning of that process. I
want to be proud again to say that I'm an American, without having to
qualify it. I want my president to support and uphold the Bill of Rights
once again.
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2130Comm
February 14, 2007 4:21 AM
George Bush, referred to by many as TVI or "The Village Idiot" is
determined to leave his mark on history.
It is more than likely that mark will resemble something pedestrians would
avoid stepping in on the pavement.
Can things get worse? Certainly he and his advisors are working on that
possibility.
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dazxito
February 14, 2007 4:50 AM
I see the US as a trapped bear... It has eaten all its cheap honey and now
with the short supply it will lash out before it dies. Like history shows
us over and over again all great empires come to an end and with each end
there is pointless bloodshed and suffering. This is the start of the end of
the USA I just hope it does not cost too many lives.
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JamesMackay
February 14, 2007 4:53 AM
"From time immemorial it has been about territory -- whatever one's ethnic
affiliation -- it's about territory." - But most countries don't take on
themselves to preach to the rest of the world.
"although the fate of the Native American was a harsh and severe one, it
was also a natural process." - Not much that can be said about this other
than, um, no it wasn't. Or would you argue that the Yugoslavian and Rwandan
ethnic cleansings were also "natural processes"?
"these americans you accuse of a mass land grab and the displacement of
millions of native indians etc WERE EUROPEANS!" - Actually, the land grab
was still taking place as Lincoln made his speech.
"To accuse the people of America today of being the same people who
committed near-genocide is to accuse me of being responsible for slavery
and accusing my German pals of being Nazis." - Morris's article is about
the American myth of itself. Occasionally pointing out that this myth is
largely founded on a false history is not the same as calling you or your
neighbours genocidaires.
"how much more of the world the Russians (i.e. the Muscovites) seized." -
True, and a good point. I will amend the comment to "nearly unprecedented
land-grab".
"confirmed Yankee hater" - Wrong. Just not someone who buys into the "Land
of the Free" rhetoric.
"gotten a hold of yourself", "your daft comments", "ignorant, rabid anti-US
fool" - Thank you, you've been a glorious audience, warming the ****les of
my evil America-hating heart. Goodnight!
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jihadisbad
February 14, 2007 5:05 AM
From the days that a few colonists got their noses out of joint, the world
has feared this country. Remember our origins. Never in the history of the
world had a colony broken free. And the colonists over in the New World
were taking on the British Empire -- the massive empire over which the sun
never set. It was insane -- it was suicide -- it had to fail.
But it didn't.
A scraggly little group of colonists had thrown off the largest Empire in
the world. And then it did it again.
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Anotherperspective
February 14, 2007 5:14 AM
Felix Frankfurter was an associate justice of the Supreme Court and never
chief justice.
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LenafromLosAngeles
February 14, 2007 5:39 AM
Isolationism...cut ALL foreign aid. Withdraw all US troops from other
nations. Pull out of the UN, NATO, NAFTA. Isolationism is the best way for
the US to go in the 21st century. The worst thing is to try to make the
world's problems you own your responsibility.
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JohnR
February 14, 2007 5:41 AM
The collapse of our dream of "America" is essentially a very sad story,
both for those of us who don't live there, and for those who do. Like Jan
Morris, I've long had a icture of a basically lovable America. Sometimes
it's been clumsy and stupid, but always it was my feeling that it's
intentions were basically good, that it was a trustworthy society. I don't
believe that any longer, and I see George Bush as the reason why I don't do
so.
What can be done? I don't know. The America I once dreamed of has become a
dark, violent place, where everything seems to be for sale, where a deal is
no longer a deal, where the rule of law doesn't apply any longer. I must
admit that when I read what Vladimir Putin said about the place I felt he
was doing little more than reflecting the way I and many others had come to
see America. Perhaps the Democrats can change things round. Perhaps, but to
date nothing much seems to be much different.
But, yes Jan Morris, a dream of a future for all of us is over. What we all
need to do is find a new dream. Perhaps the EU can offer something we can
all aspire to?
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PeakOilPersuaded
February 14, 2007 5:55 AM
@LenafromLosAngeles
In world historical terms, isolationism is now impossible for the US,
because although the US was the first industrial nation to mass-produce oil
-- the first commercial oil well was drilled in Pennsylvania, 1869 --
although US oil helped the West win two World Wars (with Russian control of
Baku oil playing its part on the Eastern front of WWII), although in 1970
the US was producing 10 million barrels per day of light sweet Texas tea,
which is the most any country has ever produced, more than the approx. 9
million per day of Saudi Arabia today... oil production peaked in 1970 in
the lower 48 States.
Oil production in the US is now 3million bpd. Oil consumption in the US is
now 22-23million bpd.
Now, this leaves America with 2 choices: 1. Voluntarily change their
profligate way of life, at great costs to themselves. 2. Do not voluntarily
change their profligate way of life, at great cost to the rest of the human
race and the Earth.
I hope they choose the later, Al Gore and Barack Obama seem to believe they
might yet choose the later.
Americans, will you choose to 'power down'?
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insomniacboy
February 14, 2007 6:08 AM
GiantsandRedskins, oft misquoted and widely repeated though it is, so an
easy mistake to make, biologist Herbert Spencer not Charles Darwin first
used the phrase 'survival of the fittest'. He was trying to make clear
Darwin's idea of 'natural selection'. 'Fittest' in this Victorian usage
meant most suitable for its environment, rather than strongest in a direct,
comparative test. Evolutionary theory can't be used to suggest that somehow
there are 'pre-ordained', scientific reasons why might is right.
Seems to me there are two religions duking it out in cultural America at
the moment, neither of which provides a basis of ethics. Leaving aside
creationism/intel design, Darwinism seems elevated to a pseudo-religion
when it's an analytic theory concerning the reproductive behaviours of
organisms, a statement of what is not what should be.
Go 49ers!
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Lycia
February 14, 2007 6:27 AM
LenafromLosAngeles; I wasn't aware that you were making the world's
problems your problems -- I thought it was the world's oil that you were
making yours. And oh for isolation -- international sanctions -- on the
great USA. And Jimmy KR 'This will be remembered as a tragic period in
American history but with any luck it will be a short one'. It's already
been a long, bloody and tragic period in 'Palestine', Iran, Afghanistan,
Lebanon, Kuwait, and many south American and African countries, which have
had the misfortune to be involved in the USA domination of global
resources. And if you think a change of president is going to fix it, think
again -- US foreign policy has been fairly consistently expansionist and
bloody since the collapse of the Soviet Union. You could argue that the US
was expanding to fill the space available. But it didn't have to do it in
such a bloody way, by supporting murdering stooges (including Saddam
Hussein; remember Rumsfeld?), appropriating natural resources and poisoning
our planet. The Lola and Chavez led S American movement, coupled with the
expansion of India and China, and of course Russia's control of an awful
lot of natural resources, will soon lead to the decline of the USA. You can
choose though whether to be remembered as murdering thieves or social
welfare campaigners. There's still a little time.
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Yak40
February 14, 2007 6:42 AM
American intervention saved Europe from tyranny in two world wars and also
during the cold war via manpower and industrial might and NATO.
America effectively ended the cold war when the Soviet card house fell over
after a few subtle (mostly economic) prods.
It is still the destination of choice for thousands of would-be
entrepreneurs (legal immigrants) let alone the illegals.
Hence the hate from the left for the most part, the ongoing success from
people DOING something to build a business for example, or building a new
life in relatively decent surroundings, shoots down their self absorbed
petty nonsense that the state is all knowing and has all the answers.
Nothing new. Get over it, it's still the best place, warts and all.
Every year I'm happier I emigrated.
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Yak40
February 14, 2007 6:42 AM
American intervention saved Europe from tyranny in two world wars and also
during the cold war via manpower and industrial might and NATO.
America effectively ended the cold war when the Soviet card house fell over
after a few subtle (mostly economic) prods.
It is still the destination of choice for thousands of would-be
entrepreneurs (legal immigrants) let alone the illegals.
Hence the hate from the left for the most part, the ongoing success from
people DOING something to build a business for example, or building a new
life in relatively decent surroundings, shoots down their self absorbed
petty nonsense that the state is all knowing and has all the answers.
Nothing new. Get over it, it's still the best place, warts and all.
Every year I'm happier I emigrated.
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theedudester
February 14, 2007 6:46 AM
"The Great Republic is great still, full still of decent clever people
trying to be good. Even now, it is as free as can be expected, and its
democracy is fundamentally honest and robust. It laughs at itself,
criticises itself and dislikes itself just as much as we do"
"as free as to be expected....."
"democracy fundamentally honest and robust......"
"it laughs at itself and criticizes itself ..."
HAVE YOU LOST YOUR F MIND?????
what is wrong with you?
Which part of America do you live in?
Did you follow the last two attempts at elections?
It is difficult with their many varied and representative party politics I
know.
I also know that the average American's warm embrace of dissenting voices
from their broad cultual touchstones can be confusing for a complete moron.
How can any article about America not mention the millions bombed, gassed,
tortured through South East Asia. Another Capitalist war dressed up as
'spreading freedom".
How could you exclude the CIA and their constant attempts to over throw
democracies that didn't suit the Corporate Interest? (try that with a
Capital 'I').
Are you a complete idiot or are you not aware of Operation Wheela Wallawa,
Condor etc etc etc etc etc. that claimed countless lives, over threw
democracies and condemned countless more to live in poverty so America can
continue to engorge itself?
This is the world's richest nation. All I see when I visit is exploitation
and lost chances. Go to Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgian, Austria. See how
people live in those countries and then write your words again.
The interpretation of capitalism is the opposite from the Top Down/trickle-
down nonsense that has contributed to that perfect society we see in the
US. Why not visit those countries and talk about pendulums there?
Why is the GI an enduring symbol of the American image? Did you think about
that? Why is the sacrifices made by the European people (including the 20
million Russians) dwarfed by the constant propagandizing from the US media
outlets?
The American dream has been rejected by those nations. The American Dream
was always just a decent sales pitch for rampant capitalism.
You talk about image.
Visit Chile, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Cambodia etc, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
etc etc etc etc etc
and then try talking about reality. Real People (with a capital P) and real
Lives.
You nutter!
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persinho
February 14, 2007 6:46 AM
Oh, what's this? More patronizing blather about America in the British
press. How droll. Yawn. Jeeves, send in the neocon and the tele-evangelist
and have them bring me a stiff drink. I seem to have gotten my baraka stuck
in this blow up toy.
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mylegsareswollen
February 14, 2007 6:50 AM
It was the early 70's under Jimmy Carter that we became known as "the Great
Satan." It was under Kennedy in the 60's that a Mr. Burdick wrote the
runaway best-seller "The Ugly American" which chronicled the intensity of
anti-US hate around the world, it was under Eisenhower that VP Nixon had to
cancel his tour of South America because of the riots....we can go on and
on.
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philiph35
February 14, 2007 6:56 AM
A nice article but one small correction may be needed. Surely Israel is the
most hated country in the world.
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AnExPom
February 14, 2007 7:00 AM
If we're going to link this to 9/11 let's link it to 9/11/1973 and let's
remember that and all the other anti-democracy acts perpetrated by America,
particularly in Central and South America. It's all very well to peddle the
ideals of democracy but it won't convince anyone if America refuses to
accept the democratic result unless it's the result America wanted.
This pendulum has swung a long way in the wrong direction over a long
period. What's really needed for it to swing back is for America to support
democracy by accepting the result even if it doesn't like it. You never
know, by living up to the ideals it purports to believe in, America might
even spread peace and prosperity. Then it might, once more, become
"beloved".
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GiantsandRedskins
February 14, 2007 7:02 AM
JamesMacKay
....as I said, it's about territory, i.e. survival (in many ways)
Insomniacboy
Thanks for the Herbert Spencer reference .... however, that "fittest" meant
most suited was known to me. Take "the tools/knowledge of the American
settlers" into account and it matches Herbert Spencer's "survival of the
fittest" most aptly, wouldn't you reckon?
P.S.: Might is also an important factor where territory is concerned, i.e.
the Romans, for example, were very skilled, indeed, but they also had the
sheer manpower to support their claim for new territory. World history has
always been about skill AND might.
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bushhatersdie
February 14, 2007 7:08 AM
Thank you all for proving that if you hate the US you love Al Queda.
If you hate Bush you love Bin Laden.
And you all danced on 9/11. Yes you danced when 3000 people died. Everyone
who says they hate America does.
And then the morons compare the US to Nazi Germany.
Sorry morons. It's Saddam who was the Hitler ish figure. But to you
genocide is dandy!
But I have to remember Nazism and anti-semitism is on the rise in Europe.
These kind of articles prove it.
We should have let the Nazis have you in WW2.
Just like you morons thought Hitler should be appeased remember Peace in
Our Time you morons want to appease Bin Laden.
How many subway bombings from your friends will it take for you idiots to
wake up?
Appeasing these people doesn't help just like appeasing Hitler didn't.
It just makes them retreat to get stronger.
But being raging anti semites you don't care because you are morons enough
to think the shits only hate Jews.
They hate everyone who isn't a child raping, bus blowing up muslim. They
even hate muslims who don't believe raping women is okay.
You want Sharia law.
That's what you're going to get if you continue to appease.
So some people hate the US? WHO GIVES A DANG! If terrorist lovers hate us
that's great. Not one decent person hates the US. Nobody with an IQ abouve
1o hates the US.
Every decent human being either loves us or the vast majority feel neither
way.
Not one person who does not believe child rape and blowing up buses is okay
hates the US.
You hate the US because we aren't laying down and dying for the terrorists
like you appeasers want to.
You either hate the US or hate rape and blowing up children.
If you hate the US it means you think blowing up a school is okay. Because
you support Al Queda.
Just like you morons in the 30s your appeasing only leads to a worse war
down the ward.
Because we listened to Hitler loving appeasenicks like you in the 30s WW2
was much worse than it would have been otherwise.
Sitting back and letting the terrorist kill and kill and kill and rape and
rape and rape does not make peace.
We should have let Hitler have Europe in the 40s. You support Nazism and
hate of jews and wish of them all to be dead now anyway.
EVery single person who posted here would have no problem with Hitler
today. 6 million dead would be okay and dandy to you.
I disagree with americans who say Mexicans are our biggest problem. I see
what the **** of the world the muslims have done to Europe. I'd rather have
a billion mexicans here than 1 muslim. The mexicans are here to work. The
muslims are there to murder.
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BlottomanEmpire
February 14, 2007 7:21 AM
I never cease to marvel at the Europeon (spelling intentional) inferiority
complex.
Apparently you've all got your panties in a twist over Iraq.
Oooooops....sorry...maybe if his holiness sir Winston had carved that
region up with a little more intelligence (or better yet, the Brits and
French hadn't colonized it in the first place) we wouldn't need the "bully"
US GI's to clean up your mess (yet again).
Of course our "bully" GI's aren't nearly as noble as the British regulars
who threw small-pox laced blankets into Indian villages during one of your
many little spats with the "light of the world" French in the 1750's. But
then again, we really don't want to talk about either of those Europeon
"land grabs".
I wonder why we don't see all kinds of editorials lamenting the many
failings of these other British colonies? What a disappointment South
Africa and Rhodesia must have been to you super-sophisticated Euro-types.
Perhaps you would have been better off if they had stormed the beaches at
Normandy?
Let's see...America is such a disappoinment...OK...where did all these
lovely "isms" come from? Imperialism...colonialism...Kaiserism...Czarism...
Hilterism... Mussolinism...Fracoism...Nazism... Fascism...Communism....and
oh yeah... the transatlantic slave trade, and its current incarnation of
Euro-sponsored conflict diamonds, conflict lumber, French sponsored
genocide in Rwanda and of course, ethnic cleansing and genocide in the
Balkans (remember, war on the continent is 'unthinkable" now that you're so
"enlightened").
Some thing's never change.
Face it...your biggest problem is that you would never see a silly op/ed
like this about you in a US paper.
Being inconsequential is what upsets you. But don't worry...we'll pay
attention to you the NEXT time you throw a hissy fit and blow up the
planet. You did it twice in the 20th century....and you're about due.
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theedudester
February 14, 2007 7:27 AM
BUSHATERSDIE: (and others who no-doubt see themslves in a 'patriotic
light')
Can you respond to the posters who have outlined how the US has overthrown
democracy and killed large numbers of people in the name of Corporate
Interest? We're talking millions.
If not why bother posting?
In the mean time while you go over world History of the last 60 years
(focus on South East Asia and South America) I have highlighted my
favourite quotes from you.
You are obviously a product of a culture capable of informed, nuanced and
sophisticated political discussion.
the 50% who voted for your esteemed leader really make sense to me now.
Good day to you Sir.
" some people hate the US? WHO GIVES A DANG! If terrorist lovers hate us
that's great. Not one decent person hates the US. Nobody with an IQ abouve
1o hates the US."
"Every decent human being either loves us or the vast majority feel neither
way".
"You hate the US because we aren't laying down and dying for the terrorists
like you appeasers want to".
"You either hate the US or hate rape and blowing up children".
"Sitting back and letting the terrorist kill and kill and kill and rape and
rape and rape does not make peace".
(Actually it does. Have a look at US policy over the last 60 odd years. The
CIA did okay doing this in Chile, Iran, South East ASia, oh the list is
endless. )
"EVery single person who posted here would have no problem with Hitler
today. 6 million dead would be okay and dandy to you."
(YEP. You're right on the money here)
I disagree with americans who say Mexicans are our biggest problem. I see
what the **** of the world the muslims have done to Europe.
(and you visit Europe often do you? Hang on, you dont' need to as you can
watch FOX news and get a broad picture of life in Yurp)
I'd rather have a billion mexicans here than 1 muslim. The mexicans are
here to work. The muslims are there to murder. (again, Bush makes sense!)
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easilypleased
February 14, 2007 7:40 AM
bushhatersdie captures precisely why all right thinking people say
"God Bless America".
Think for a moment how we have profited over so many years from our
"special relationship" with bushhatersdie and their like.
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kartoon
February 14, 2007 7:45 AM
Having lived in Canada next to The Beast for 63 years, I have a well-
established suspicion of any claim that light may yet be seen at the other
[American] end of the tunnel. South of the 49th parallel I do see
widespread acceptance of magic thinking (creationism, Christian
primitivism, clapping louder to influence Tinkerbell, etc.), American
exceptionalism in all manner of international arrangements, and the most
profound and pervasive ignorance concerning the world. We here have seen
bilateral agreement after agreement casually violated, rude hectoring from
Ambassadors, and on a purely individual level uneasy but polite
indifference to foreign social context.
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coffee300am
February 14, 2007 8:01 AM
Please tell this story to the 20 million illegal persons living here and
also hand out flyers with this story printed on them in several different
languages to the hundreds which cross the Texas border illegally everyday.
Please place persons with microphones and loudspeakers in every country
repeating this story to the millions who wish to come here. America is
turning into a Nazi regime before your eyes!!! Shout this story from the
mountain!!! Maybe It
the most hated
The American swagger has become bombast, the ****y GI a
bully. But with luck the pendulum may be ready to swing
back
By Jan Morris
The Guardian
Wednesday, February 14, 2007
'Whisper of how I'm yearning", sang George M Cohan in one
of the great American songs of nostalgia, "to mingle with
the old time throng". Well, I'm yearning too, not for the
gang at 42nd Street exactly, but for the America that Cohan
was indirectly hymning -- for the Idea of America, with a
capital I, which once made the United States not just the
most potent of all the nations but genuinely the most
liked.
Perhaps, with a future new president already champing at
the bit, we are about to witness its rebirth. As a
foreigner I am immune to the rivalries or seductions of
American party politics, but I have loved the old place for
60 years, and I simply pray for an American leader to give
us back its baraka, as the Arabs say -- nothing to do with
religion or economics or power or even ideology, but the
gift of being at once blessed and blessing.
Of course nobody can claim that the old dreams of America
were ever perfectly fulfilled. They often let us down. They
were betrayed by the national reputations for crime,
corruption, racism and rampant materialism. Not all the
presidents, God knows, were icons of virtue or even of
glamour, and the benevolent Uncle Sam of the old
cartoonists was more often interpreted, around the world,
as a fat moron in horn-rimmed spectacles, chewing a cigar.
Nobody's perfect, still less any republic.
But I think it is true that only in our time has the
American Idea lost its baraka. A generation or two ago,
most of us, wherever we lived, loved the generous self-
satisfaction of it, if not in the general, at least in the
particular. The GI was not then a sort of goggled monster
in padded armour, but a cheerful fellow chatting up the
girls and distributing candy not as a matter of policy, but
out of plain goodwill -- everyone's friendly guy next door.
To millions of radio listeners around the world, the Voice
of America was a voice of decency, and one could watch the
lachrymose patriotic rituals of America -- the hand on
heart, the misty-eyed salute to the flag -- with more
affection than irony.
For myself, I responded to them all too sentimentally. Like
Walt Whitman before me, I heard America sing! I relished
the hackneyed old lyrics -- Mine eyes have seen the glory,
Thy word our law, Thy paths our chosen way, Oe'r the land
of the free and the home of the brave, God bless America,
land that I love ... Most of the words were flaccid, many
of the tunes were vulgar, but as I heard them I saw always
in my mind's eye, as Whitman did, all the glorious space,
grandeur and opportunity that was America, Manhattan to LA.
Sea, in fact, to shining sea.
In those days we did not think of American evangelists as
prophets of political extremism -- they seemed more akin to
the homely convictions of plantation or village chapel than
to the machinations of neocons. We bridled rather at the
American assumption that the US of A had been the only true
victor of the second world war, but most of us did not very
deeply resent the happy swagger of the legend and danced
gratefully enough to the American rhythms of the time. We
thought it all seemed essentially innocent.
Innocent! Dear God! Half a century, and nobody thinks that
now. Far from being the most beloved country on earth,
today the US is the most thoroughly detested. The rot
really started to set in, in my view, with Abraham Lincoln,
one of the most admirable men who ever lived. He it was who
saw in American glory the duty of a mission. America, he
declared, was the last best hope of earth. The pursuit of
happiness was not its national vocation, but the example of
democracy. The more like the United States the world
became, the better the world would be. No statesman was
ever more sincere or kindly in his beliefs, but poor old
Abe would be horrified to see how his interpretation of
destiny has gone sour.
For the missionary instinct, which impelled Americans into
so many noble policies, was to be perverted by power. Pace
Lincoln, America was not necessarily the last best hope of
mankind, and the knowledge that it has possessed
unchallengable powers of interference has distorted its
attitude to the world and cruelly damaged its image in
return.
Isolationism was not a very estimable stance, but
interfereism is not much more attractive. In humanity's
eye, the swagger has become bombast and the ****y GI has
become a bully.
But there is a difference between image and idea. One is a
projection, the other an absolute. Public relations people,
tabloid newspapers, spin doctors and entertainers can all
fiddle with the image of America, but the idea of it
remains constant -- overlaid, perhaps, dormant, even
forgotten, but always there. Everyone who visits America
feels it -- every package tourist returns to tell their
neighbours how nice the Americans are, how different from
their reputation. And what they are all sensing, half-
hidden behind the image of America, is the presence of the
Idea, with a capital I.
When I first went to the United States in the 1950s, I
impertinently remarked to an archetypal guru, Chief Justice
Felix Frankfurter, that what with Senator McCarthy and
southern segregation, and civic corruption everywhere, I
was not much impressed by the condition of America. Be
patient, said the sage. America is like a pendulum,
swinging from good to bad, from bad to good, and before
long it will swing again.
He was right, and with luck, perhaps the pendulum is almost
ready to swing back once more. Whatever we may think in our
moments of despair, America is still a marvellous and
lovable country whose patriotism can still be touching: try
restraining a tear when you listen to Irving Berlin's
setting of the words on the Statue of Liberty -- the
ultimate American text, with music by the emblematic
American immigrant. The Great Republic is great still, full
still of decent clever people trying to be good. Even now,
it is as free as can be expected, and its democracy is
fundamentally honest and robust. It laughs at itself,
criticises itself and dislikes itself just as much as we
do.
All it needs is someone with a key to unlock that Idea
again, and I hope it will be that next president, whoever
it is, even now gearing up for the election. Please God,
may it be a poetic president. Inspiration has been the true
engine of American success, and all its greatest presidents
have been people with a divine spark. The dullards may have
been efficient, respected or influential, but the
Jeffersons and the Roosevelts, the Lincolns and the
Kennedys have all been, in their different ways, artists.
So may it be a president with the key of original
inspiration who can release the Idea from its occlusion.
All the ingredients are still there, after all -- the
kindness, the imagination, the merriment, the will, the
talent, the energy, the goddam orneriness, the plain
goodness -- all there waiting to burst out once more and
bring us back our America, blessed and blessing too.
"Give our regards to old Broadway", sang Cohan, "And say
that I'll be there ere long." So will we, so will we, just
as soon as America comes home.
o Jan Morris is a historian, travel writer and former
Guardian correspondent. Her first book was Coast to Coast:
A Journey Across 1950s America and the most recent Trieste
and the Meaning of Nowhere
Comments
DJLudwigvan
February 14, 2007 1:23 AM
With luck indeed. Sadly, and frighteningly, the neocons who still have
Bush's ear may yet condemn all chance in the near-term of the pendulum
swinging back by bombing Iran, which they really want to do because they
need an external enemy to justify their existence and to cover up their
lies and failings. The current conservative anti-intellectual tenor of the
US media outlets (CNN, Fox "News") ruling the airwaves doesn't help by
following their lead hook, line and sinker.
But the victory of the Democrats in the midterm elections is a small hope,
and hopefully the first step in a painfully long journey towards something
resembling sanity. Most Americans are indeed not as extreme as the current
wave of media bigots like Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Michael
Savage and the other prophets of hate who shout the loudest, and thus get
heard. Moderation, from both Democrats and Republicans, doesn't make for
very sexy TV or sound bites.
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JamesMackay
February 14, 2007 1:23 AM
Just to check -- this is the America founded on an unprecedented land grab
that dispossessed countless millions of Native peoples?
The American Dream was a good sales pitch, but with the Cold War over it's
no longer necessary for anyone outside the US to follow America's vision of
itself.
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marksa
February 14, 2007 1:43 AM
I don't know if the US was ever the 'most beloved', it sounds somewhat
fanciful. But its certainly true that after 1945, for a short time anyway,
the US has a strong anti-imperialist image with its call for
decolonisation. The European states were discredited and tarred with
warmongering and colonialism, before they did the rapid switcheroo to
pacifism. Even Ho Chi Minh wrote to the US president asking for assistance
against the colonist French evildoers.
But I don't know if the US will ever recover this mythic image that you
speak of, the economics has changed far too much for this to really happen.
When the US accounted for 50% of the Worlds GDP you tend to forgive it a
lot of things, Vietnam etc. Its now at 23% and no longer the land of
boundless opportunity, well there are other places opening up. Like Vietnam
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Mainhatten
February 14, 2007 1:49 AM
" .......but the idea of it remains constant -- overlaid, perhaps, dormant,
even forgotten, but always there. Everyone who vists America feels it --
every package tourist returns to tell their neighbours how nice the
Americans are, how different from their reputation. And what they are
sensing, half-hidden behind the image of America, is the presence of the
idea, with a capital I"
The American pathos is still going strong. Their concept of liberalism and
secularism hasn't turned its back on decency. But most of all, America
hasn't betrayed its roots!
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wikipedia
February 14, 2007 2:01 AM
"Give us back its baraka (the gift of being at once blessed and blessing)"?
As in Barack Obama? Pendulum about to swing? Next president? Poetic
president? Divine spark...artist...kay of original inspiration? (Yes,
Guardian readers can connect dots when they're that big and practically
fluorescent.) http://www.barackobama.com/
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Cartier
February 14, 2007 2:08 AM
Nostalgia and romanticism about a glorious imagined past is what got us
into this mess in the first place. If people in general, and journalists in
particular, were more willing to ask the tough questions, and criticise the
wrong decisions that the U.S government has specialised in making, we might
not need the rose-tinted glasses. But they don't. Instead, we have this
constant wishy-washy portrayal of the beautiful errant child who needs only
a loving hand and a quiet word to correct its naughty ways. Sorry, that's
not going to work. Cutting the US too much slack has created an out of
control monster. We have allowed them to get away with murder; brutal,
heartless, unjustified murder. In our name. And we continue to do nothing
but sigh and reminisce and hope the "pendulum swings the other way." Dream
on.
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GiantsandRedskins
February 14, 2007 2:19 AM
..... this is the America founded on an unprecedented land grab that
dispossessed countless millions of Native people"
Wasicu sni washte yelo, eh? Your sentiments exactly, I take it? Once you
have gotten a hold of yourself you might like to take a look at World
history. From time immemorial it has been about territory -- whatever one's
ethnic affiliation -- it's about territory. Or do you think that the
Ancient Egyptians and Persians, for example, were in into the "land grab"
for anything else? And although the fate of the Native American was a harsh
and severe one, it was also a natural process. Darwin's "survival of the
fittest" theory may be cruel to some but it sums up human existence to a T.
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imamba
February 14, 2007 2:25 AM
I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with the premise of this article. What is
taking place now in America is very similar to what happened Germany in the
30s. I served in the South African Army in WW2 and when my division was in
Italy most of the time we were attached to the US 5th Army. I have very
fond memories of the Americans of that time. However when I look at the US
now I see a "Nazi" America fomenting wars using the Hitlerian big lie.
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bessaroth
February 14, 2007 3:15 AM
"The last best hope of earth (or mankind )" is attributed to Lincoln.A half
century ago, the threat to freedom ( still much denied by some of those who
haunt the GUT) was the USSR.That threat is gone, and who can deny that
America was largely responsible?Today,the civilized world is faced with
another threat, different in character but perhaps more insidious, and who
would Ms Morris propose we should look to save the West? The Belgian army,
perhaps?America is hated because all others, who were once capable of
resisting, are impotent.Another relevant quote.Freud said of a former
friend, turned disloyal. "Why does he hate me? I've never done anything for
him".
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USSteveW
February 14, 2007 3:30 AM
As an American, all I can say is -- I hope so too.
And thanks for not giving up all hope on us.
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Teacup
February 14, 2007 3:36 AM
"Everyone who vists America feels it -- every package tourist returns to
tell their neighbours how nice the Americans are, how different from their
reputation."
True enough, and that is the sad thing about the present US government, how
deeply they have let the American people down. Like you, I hope that the
pendulum swings the other way. I am not reminded of Nazi Germany, but
MacCarthy America. The US came out of that, I hope it will regain its
equilibrium again, SOON.
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JimmyKR
February 14, 2007 3:38 AM
I think you're being a tad pesimistic imamba. The popularity of the Nazis
was booming in the 30s while now in America the presidents approval rating
is plunging to now around 30% and the Republicans were just handed a
devastating defeat in the November elections. Speaking as an American I
would just ask the world to remember the extrodinary set of circumstances
that led us to this point. Most Americans who voted in the 2000
presidential election did not vote for Bush he was put into office thanks
to a quirk of our Republic (only the 3rd time in history if Im correct). On
September 10th it was a virtual lock that W would be a one term president
with minimal harm done. After that the president was able to use a shell
shocked nation to settle his score with Saddam. This will be remembered as
a tragic period in American history but with any luck it will be a short
one.
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LairdKeir
February 14, 2007 3:48 AM
"I don't know if the US was ever the 'most beloved'" How about during the
Paris Peace Conference of 1919? It was the only country with the moral,
political and economic weight to have changed the world for the better, and
most felt a deep loss that the US hadn't joined the League of Nations but
went back to its isolationism. lairdkeir.spaces.live.com
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Parsian
February 14, 2007 3:49 AM
Most people hate the US foreign policy, but not the American people. It
shall remain the same unless the US changes its foreign policy especially
in the Middle East. Unfortunately, the Democrats do not have a better
foreign policy.
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jacksonjones
February 14, 2007 4:00 AM
James Mackay -- as a general comment (which dovetails with my response to
your daft comments) I cannot stand Bush and the neo-cons and neither can I
stand christian fundamentalists (or, in fact any religous fundamentalist)
but to blame this on all Americans is ridiculous. As has been pointed out
in earlier posts we have not acted as a sufficient check on America and we
need to sort out our own house first (and take our share of the
responsibility for this).
As a specific response to you daft comments -- these americans you accuse
of a mass land grab and the displacement of millions of native indians etc
WERE EUROPEANS! To accuse the people of America today of being the same
people who committed near-genocide is to accuse me of being responsible for
slavery and accusing my German pals of being Nazis.
So, to use an American phrase "Go figure"...as it seems to me you're just
an ignorant, rabid anti-US fool.
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disrealian
February 14, 2007 4:00 AM
Good piece Jan. To the guy criticising you for not being an investigative
reporter- as I understand it you write travel books and there is room for
every kind of journalism not just one in the world. I think you are right
in the sense that the tide will turn inside America- but also teh tide will
turn out here. Don't forget that Clinton was incredibly unpopular in
Europe- Herve de Charette the French foreign Minister coined the word
hyperpower about his America. I suspect this has a lot to do with power and
as American power fades in the next century and China in particular rises,
so we will rediscover the things that make America good not bad.
http://gracchii.blogspot.com
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Cartier
February 14, 2007 4:01 AM
Not quite sure why bessaroth is attacking Jan Morris... she's on your side.
And for those, like JimmyKR, who hope that Bush will soon be nothing but a
bad memory, I say "wake up". As a historian, Jan Morris should, more than
most, be able to quote extansively from US history, from the Federalist
Papers, from the writings of Jefferson and Lincoln and Tom Paine. Having
done so, she should be able to draw an ideological line from their words
and those ambitions, to the reality of America today... and realise that
the line points inexorably downward... away from freedom, away from
equality, away from democratic principle. Bush is just the latest, lowest
point on that line. It's not suddenly going to point upwards again. In
fact, just wait and see what kind of bitterness, bile, division and
ultimately political mayhem now await, as a woman and a black man lead the
race for the White House. The true nature of American culture is about to
be brutally exposed, and it's going to be ugly.
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ScepticOptimist
February 14, 2007 4:02 AM
First I want to say that I have spent a considerable amount (several years
in total) of time living and working all over the US.
I can still clearly remember my first trip 20 years ago when I spent a
summer on a J1 student visa working in Detroit. Why Detroit ? Simply
because one of my sisters was living there at the time. The most striking
image is of my first bus ride from my sister's house (in an area called
Hamtramck) to Downtown where I had got a job waiting in a restaurant.
It was with a mix of astonishment and horror that as we passed out of my
neighborhood there was this burnt out ring that (I later found out) had not
been rebuilt since the 1967 riots.
In my youthful naivety I asked one of my co-workers why in a country as
rich as the US such slums could still exist, his response -- "because it's
Black". In case you were wondering, the guy was White.
10 years later I spent a few months working in a 'blue-chip' company's
manufacturing plant in New Mexico that has over 5000 employees. Again I was
amazed. Rather than sitting with their team colleagues at lunch, the work
canteen seem to split along racial lines with Hispanics, Blacks and Whites
all sitting in separate groups.
Now I don't for a moment pretend that the racial problems in Europe are
much better, but simply relate these anecdotes to illustrate the point that
the reality of America falls far short of the ideals of America.
You see I genuinely believe in the American Ideal of a secular democratic
free society. The famous paragraph in the Declaration of Independence sums
it up quite well.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."
It is an Ideal that most countries can benefit from emulating. The problem
is of course with the reality of what kind of country America is today.
Undoubtedly it is the wealthiest and the most powerful and for the most
part a pretty good towards it's own citizens. However, how benign is it's
influence in the rest of the world?
Any government's ultimate responsibility is to it's own people. It would be
negligent if it did not protect it's self interests, but how far can this
go ? Europe enslaved half the world for it's self enrichment. Is that
attitude justifiable in the 21st century?
My problem when talking to Americans is that they tend to believe their own
propaganda -- the Hollywood imagery of them being the guys with white hats.
Very few have traveled outside of North America (and consequently
frightening ignorant about the world outside their borders) and even fewer
question what the see and read in the Media.
I don't pretend to know what the answer is. Maybe a bloody war and
thousands of American casualties is the only way they can be forced to take
a step back and look closely at themselves. Obviously not a good way for it
to happen though.
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acarsaid
February 14, 2007 4:07 AM
JamesMackay wrote:
"this is the America founded on an unprecedented land grab that
dispossessed countless millions of Native peoples?"
It is a good thing for Mr MacKay that ignorance is no bar to blogging on
the Guardian; if he were to look at a map he could see how much more of the
world the Russians (i.e. the Muscovites) seized. Starting with a piss-ant
little state around a piss-ant little town (Moscow) they -- the Czars --
went west to the Vistula and east to Canada. They sold Alaska to the
Americans, remember?
To a confirmed Yankee hater such as Mr Mackay, facts are useful, sometimes,
but certainly not indispensible.
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ChrisMorrison
February 14, 2007 4:10 AM
There are actually at least two Americas. One of them is the militaristic
anti-intellectualistic anti-artistic superstitious one with its combination
of literalistic religion with social Darwinism as economics. The other one
is the old idealistic vision of a good moral life, of tolerance and freedom
and the idea that in helping your neighbour you are helping yourself. Most
of the Democratic presidential candidates are trying to steer America back
toward the second America. We can only hope that they will succeed, and
that any Republican vision will be their own version of the second America.
It is only when America, or any country, loses confidence in its ability to
lead and to interact freely with the rest of the world that it finds it
necessary to lead through fear and force. But ultimately this is self-
defeating. America has simply had another of its periodic moments of being
mentally indisposed. They will happen again, of course, but hopefully the
world will be organised in such a way that such moments of madness will be
shorter and cause less damage to the people of the nations that suffer them
as well as the rest of the world. America isn't the only nation that
suffers crazy spells, but it is a very large bull in what is becomming a
very small world china shop.
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Abushams
February 14, 2007 4:12 AM
If you had a positive view on America you are a"Historian " who believes
what the goverment autorized books tell him , very dangerous and common . I
grew up with the stories from my grandfather and granduncle how the
Americans betrayed their resistance group to the Nazi's during the last
year of WW2 , a claim your fellow "historians" of the Dutch "institute of
war documentation " have refused (or have been forbidden to by all those
puppet goverments we have had since 1945) to examine . A situation rather
simular to the dead of Shah Masood in Afganistan which made place for the
puppet Karzai.
If Barack makes it he must have sold his soul already to te group of
intrests/companies that uses the democratic party as a front ,which include
many weapon industries whowill demand wars and treaths
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ChicagoPaco
February 14, 2007 4:13 AM
I live in the USA and believe the country deserves every bit of criticism
it gets. All too often one hears how they don't hate the people only the
policies. Unfortunately that relieves the electorate of the role they
played in electing bush and believed everything his henchmen said. The
policies are made by those they elected and, sadly, support.
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RedPanda
February 14, 2007 4:14 AM
I'm afraid that many people around the world look on the US as being like
the terrifying capricious and almost infinitely powerful little boy in
Jerome Bixby's story, "It's a Good Life".
It's important to remember that the present government does not represent a
majority of the American people. Gore got more votes than Bush in 2000, and
Bush was elected in 2004, by the narrowest margin ever for a sitting US
president, only because he had the inertia of being the incumbent. (Not to
mention certain "irregularities" about both elections.) Many Americans
rejected Bush's narrow-minded arrogance all along, and more and more have
come to agree. Some 70% of us disagree with his handling of the war, and I
think about that many now believe that it was a mistake in the first place.
There is also more opposition to his domestic policies and spending
priorities.
Many of us have been hoping, and fighting, to get our country back, and
hope that the elections in November were the beginning of that process. I
want to be proud again to say that I'm an American, without having to
qualify it. I want my president to support and uphold the Bill of Rights
once again.
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2130Comm
February 14, 2007 4:21 AM
George Bush, referred to by many as TVI or "The Village Idiot" is
determined to leave his mark on history.
It is more than likely that mark will resemble something pedestrians would
avoid stepping in on the pavement.
Can things get worse? Certainly he and his advisors are working on that
possibility.
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dazxito
February 14, 2007 4:50 AM
I see the US as a trapped bear... It has eaten all its cheap honey and now
with the short supply it will lash out before it dies. Like history shows
us over and over again all great empires come to an end and with each end
there is pointless bloodshed and suffering. This is the start of the end of
the USA I just hope it does not cost too many lives.
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JamesMackay
February 14, 2007 4:53 AM
"From time immemorial it has been about territory -- whatever one's ethnic
affiliation -- it's about territory." - But most countries don't take on
themselves to preach to the rest of the world.
"although the fate of the Native American was a harsh and severe one, it
was also a natural process." - Not much that can be said about this other
than, um, no it wasn't. Or would you argue that the Yugoslavian and Rwandan
ethnic cleansings were also "natural processes"?
"these americans you accuse of a mass land grab and the displacement of
millions of native indians etc WERE EUROPEANS!" - Actually, the land grab
was still taking place as Lincoln made his speech.
"To accuse the people of America today of being the same people who
committed near-genocide is to accuse me of being responsible for slavery
and accusing my German pals of being Nazis." - Morris's article is about
the American myth of itself. Occasionally pointing out that this myth is
largely founded on a false history is not the same as calling you or your
neighbours genocidaires.
"how much more of the world the Russians (i.e. the Muscovites) seized." -
True, and a good point. I will amend the comment to "nearly unprecedented
land-grab".
"confirmed Yankee hater" - Wrong. Just not someone who buys into the "Land
of the Free" rhetoric.
"gotten a hold of yourself", "your daft comments", "ignorant, rabid anti-US
fool" - Thank you, you've been a glorious audience, warming the ****les of
my evil America-hating heart. Goodnight!
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jihadisbad
February 14, 2007 5:05 AM
From the days that a few colonists got their noses out of joint, the world
has feared this country. Remember our origins. Never in the history of the
world had a colony broken free. And the colonists over in the New World
were taking on the British Empire -- the massive empire over which the sun
never set. It was insane -- it was suicide -- it had to fail.
But it didn't.
A scraggly little group of colonists had thrown off the largest Empire in
the world. And then it did it again.
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Anotherperspective
February 14, 2007 5:14 AM
Felix Frankfurter was an associate justice of the Supreme Court and never
chief justice.
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LenafromLosAngeles
February 14, 2007 5:39 AM
Isolationism...cut ALL foreign aid. Withdraw all US troops from other
nations. Pull out of the UN, NATO, NAFTA. Isolationism is the best way for
the US to go in the 21st century. The worst thing is to try to make the
world's problems you own your responsibility.
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JohnR
February 14, 2007 5:41 AM
The collapse of our dream of "America" is essentially a very sad story,
both for those of us who don't live there, and for those who do. Like Jan
Morris, I've long had a icture of a basically lovable America. Sometimes
it's been clumsy and stupid, but always it was my feeling that it's
intentions were basically good, that it was a trustworthy society. I don't
believe that any longer, and I see George Bush as the reason why I don't do
so.
What can be done? I don't know. The America I once dreamed of has become a
dark, violent place, where everything seems to be for sale, where a deal is
no longer a deal, where the rule of law doesn't apply any longer. I must
admit that when I read what Vladimir Putin said about the place I felt he
was doing little more than reflecting the way I and many others had come to
see America. Perhaps the Democrats can change things round. Perhaps, but to
date nothing much seems to be much different.
But, yes Jan Morris, a dream of a future for all of us is over. What we all
need to do is find a new dream. Perhaps the EU can offer something we can
all aspire to?
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PeakOilPersuaded
February 14, 2007 5:55 AM
@LenafromLosAngeles
In world historical terms, isolationism is now impossible for the US,
because although the US was the first industrial nation to mass-produce oil
-- the first commercial oil well was drilled in Pennsylvania, 1869 --
although US oil helped the West win two World Wars (with Russian control of
Baku oil playing its part on the Eastern front of WWII), although in 1970
the US was producing 10 million barrels per day of light sweet Texas tea,
which is the most any country has ever produced, more than the approx. 9
million per day of Saudi Arabia today... oil production peaked in 1970 in
the lower 48 States.
Oil production in the US is now 3million bpd. Oil consumption in the US is
now 22-23million bpd.
Now, this leaves America with 2 choices: 1. Voluntarily change their
profligate way of life, at great costs to themselves. 2. Do not voluntarily
change their profligate way of life, at great cost to the rest of the human
race and the Earth.
I hope they choose the later, Al Gore and Barack Obama seem to believe they
might yet choose the later.
Americans, will you choose to 'power down'?
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insomniacboy
February 14, 2007 6:08 AM
GiantsandRedskins, oft misquoted and widely repeated though it is, so an
easy mistake to make, biologist Herbert Spencer not Charles Darwin first
used the phrase 'survival of the fittest'. He was trying to make clear
Darwin's idea of 'natural selection'. 'Fittest' in this Victorian usage
meant most suitable for its environment, rather than strongest in a direct,
comparative test. Evolutionary theory can't be used to suggest that somehow
there are 'pre-ordained', scientific reasons why might is right.
Seems to me there are two religions duking it out in cultural America at
the moment, neither of which provides a basis of ethics. Leaving aside
creationism/intel design, Darwinism seems elevated to a pseudo-religion
when it's an analytic theory concerning the reproductive behaviours of
organisms, a statement of what is not what should be.
Go 49ers!
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Lycia
February 14, 2007 6:27 AM
LenafromLosAngeles; I wasn't aware that you were making the world's
problems your problems -- I thought it was the world's oil that you were
making yours. And oh for isolation -- international sanctions -- on the
great USA. And Jimmy KR 'This will be remembered as a tragic period in
American history but with any luck it will be a short one'. It's already
been a long, bloody and tragic period in 'Palestine', Iran, Afghanistan,
Lebanon, Kuwait, and many south American and African countries, which have
had the misfortune to be involved in the USA domination of global
resources. And if you think a change of president is going to fix it, think
again -- US foreign policy has been fairly consistently expansionist and
bloody since the collapse of the Soviet Union. You could argue that the US
was expanding to fill the space available. But it didn't have to do it in
such a bloody way, by supporting murdering stooges (including Saddam
Hussein; remember Rumsfeld?), appropriating natural resources and poisoning
our planet. The Lola and Chavez led S American movement, coupled with the
expansion of India and China, and of course Russia's control of an awful
lot of natural resources, will soon lead to the decline of the USA. You can
choose though whether to be remembered as murdering thieves or social
welfare campaigners. There's still a little time.
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Yak40
February 14, 2007 6:42 AM
American intervention saved Europe from tyranny in two world wars and also
during the cold war via manpower and industrial might and NATO.
America effectively ended the cold war when the Soviet card house fell over
after a few subtle (mostly economic) prods.
It is still the destination of choice for thousands of would-be
entrepreneurs (legal immigrants) let alone the illegals.
Hence the hate from the left for the most part, the ongoing success from
people DOING something to build a business for example, or building a new
life in relatively decent surroundings, shoots down their self absorbed
petty nonsense that the state is all knowing and has all the answers.
Nothing new. Get over it, it's still the best place, warts and all.
Every year I'm happier I emigrated.
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Yak40
February 14, 2007 6:42 AM
American intervention saved Europe from tyranny in two world wars and also
during the cold war via manpower and industrial might and NATO.
America effectively ended the cold war when the Soviet card house fell over
after a few subtle (mostly economic) prods.
It is still the destination of choice for thousands of would-be
entrepreneurs (legal immigrants) let alone the illegals.
Hence the hate from the left for the most part, the ongoing success from
people DOING something to build a business for example, or building a new
life in relatively decent surroundings, shoots down their self absorbed
petty nonsense that the state is all knowing and has all the answers.
Nothing new. Get over it, it's still the best place, warts and all.
Every year I'm happier I emigrated.
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theedudester
February 14, 2007 6:46 AM
"The Great Republic is great still, full still of decent clever people
trying to be good. Even now, it is as free as can be expected, and its
democracy is fundamentally honest and robust. It laughs at itself,
criticises itself and dislikes itself just as much as we do"
"as free as to be expected....."
"democracy fundamentally honest and robust......"
"it laughs at itself and criticizes itself ..."
HAVE YOU LOST YOUR F MIND?????
what is wrong with you?
Which part of America do you live in?
Did you follow the last two attempts at elections?
It is difficult with their many varied and representative party politics I
know.
I also know that the average American's warm embrace of dissenting voices
from their broad cultual touchstones can be confusing for a complete moron.
How can any article about America not mention the millions bombed, gassed,
tortured through South East Asia. Another Capitalist war dressed up as
'spreading freedom".
How could you exclude the CIA and their constant attempts to over throw
democracies that didn't suit the Corporate Interest? (try that with a
Capital 'I').
Are you a complete idiot or are you not aware of Operation Wheela Wallawa,
Condor etc etc etc etc etc. that claimed countless lives, over threw
democracies and condemned countless more to live in poverty so America can
continue to engorge itself?
This is the world's richest nation. All I see when I visit is exploitation
and lost chances. Go to Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgian, Austria. See how
people live in those countries and then write your words again.
The interpretation of capitalism is the opposite from the Top Down/trickle-
down nonsense that has contributed to that perfect society we see in the
US. Why not visit those countries and talk about pendulums there?
Why is the GI an enduring symbol of the American image? Did you think about
that? Why is the sacrifices made by the European people (including the 20
million Russians) dwarfed by the constant propagandizing from the US media
outlets?
The American dream has been rejected by those nations. The American Dream
was always just a decent sales pitch for rampant capitalism.
You talk about image.
Visit Chile, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Cambodia etc, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
etc etc etc etc etc
and then try talking about reality. Real People (with a capital P) and real
Lives.
You nutter!
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persinho
February 14, 2007 6:46 AM
Oh, what's this? More patronizing blather about America in the British
press. How droll. Yawn. Jeeves, send in the neocon and the tele-evangelist
and have them bring me a stiff drink. I seem to have gotten my baraka stuck
in this blow up toy.
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mylegsareswollen
February 14, 2007 6:50 AM
It was the early 70's under Jimmy Carter that we became known as "the Great
Satan." It was under Kennedy in the 60's that a Mr. Burdick wrote the
runaway best-seller "The Ugly American" which chronicled the intensity of
anti-US hate around the world, it was under Eisenhower that VP Nixon had to
cancel his tour of South America because of the riots....we can go on and
on.
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philiph35
February 14, 2007 6:56 AM
A nice article but one small correction may be needed. Surely Israel is the
most hated country in the world.
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AnExPom
February 14, 2007 7:00 AM
If we're going to link this to 9/11 let's link it to 9/11/1973 and let's
remember that and all the other anti-democracy acts perpetrated by America,
particularly in Central and South America. It's all very well to peddle the
ideals of democracy but it won't convince anyone if America refuses to
accept the democratic result unless it's the result America wanted.
This pendulum has swung a long way in the wrong direction over a long
period. What's really needed for it to swing back is for America to support
democracy by accepting the result even if it doesn't like it. You never
know, by living up to the ideals it purports to believe in, America might
even spread peace and prosperity. Then it might, once more, become
"beloved".
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GiantsandRedskins
February 14, 2007 7:02 AM
JamesMacKay
....as I said, it's about territory, i.e. survival (in many ways)
Insomniacboy
Thanks for the Herbert Spencer reference .... however, that "fittest" meant
most suited was known to me. Take "the tools/knowledge of the American
settlers" into account and it matches Herbert Spencer's "survival of the
fittest" most aptly, wouldn't you reckon?
P.S.: Might is also an important factor where territory is concerned, i.e.
the Romans, for example, were very skilled, indeed, but they also had the
sheer manpower to support their claim for new territory. World history has
always been about skill AND might.
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bushhatersdie
February 14, 2007 7:08 AM
Thank you all for proving that if you hate the US you love Al Queda.
If you hate Bush you love Bin Laden.
And you all danced on 9/11. Yes you danced when 3000 people died. Everyone
who says they hate America does.
And then the morons compare the US to Nazi Germany.
Sorry morons. It's Saddam who was the Hitler ish figure. But to you
genocide is dandy!
But I have to remember Nazism and anti-semitism is on the rise in Europe.
These kind of articles prove it.
We should have let the Nazis have you in WW2.
Just like you morons thought Hitler should be appeased remember Peace in
Our Time you morons want to appease Bin Laden.
How many subway bombings from your friends will it take for you idiots to
wake up?
Appeasing these people doesn't help just like appeasing Hitler didn't.
It just makes them retreat to get stronger.
But being raging anti semites you don't care because you are morons enough
to think the shits only hate Jews.
They hate everyone who isn't a child raping, bus blowing up muslim. They
even hate muslims who don't believe raping women is okay.
You want Sharia law.
That's what you're going to get if you continue to appease.
So some people hate the US? WHO GIVES A DANG! If terrorist lovers hate us
that's great. Not one decent person hates the US. Nobody with an IQ abouve
1o hates the US.
Every decent human being either loves us or the vast majority feel neither
way.
Not one person who does not believe child rape and blowing up buses is okay
hates the US.
You hate the US because we aren't laying down and dying for the terrorists
like you appeasers want to.
You either hate the US or hate rape and blowing up children.
If you hate the US it means you think blowing up a school is okay. Because
you support Al Queda.
Just like you morons in the 30s your appeasing only leads to a worse war
down the ward.
Because we listened to Hitler loving appeasenicks like you in the 30s WW2
was much worse than it would have been otherwise.
Sitting back and letting the terrorist kill and kill and kill and rape and
rape and rape does not make peace.
We should have let Hitler have Europe in the 40s. You support Nazism and
hate of jews and wish of them all to be dead now anyway.
EVery single person who posted here would have no problem with Hitler
today. 6 million dead would be okay and dandy to you.
I disagree with americans who say Mexicans are our biggest problem. I see
what the **** of the world the muslims have done to Europe. I'd rather have
a billion mexicans here than 1 muslim. The mexicans are here to work. The
muslims are there to murder.
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BlottomanEmpire
February 14, 2007 7:21 AM
I never cease to marvel at the Europeon (spelling intentional) inferiority
complex.
Apparently you've all got your panties in a twist over Iraq.
Oooooops....sorry...maybe if his holiness sir Winston had carved that
region up with a little more intelligence (or better yet, the Brits and
French hadn't colonized it in the first place) we wouldn't need the "bully"
US GI's to clean up your mess (yet again).
Of course our "bully" GI's aren't nearly as noble as the British regulars
who threw small-pox laced blankets into Indian villages during one of your
many little spats with the "light of the world" French in the 1750's. But
then again, we really don't want to talk about either of those Europeon
"land grabs".
I wonder why we don't see all kinds of editorials lamenting the many
failings of these other British colonies? What a disappointment South
Africa and Rhodesia must have been to you super-sophisticated Euro-types.
Perhaps you would have been better off if they had stormed the beaches at
Normandy?
Let's see...America is such a disappoinment...OK...where did all these
lovely "isms" come from? Imperialism...colonialism...Kaiserism...Czarism...
Hilterism... Mussolinism...Fracoism...Nazism... Fascism...Communism....and
oh yeah... the transatlantic slave trade, and its current incarnation of
Euro-sponsored conflict diamonds, conflict lumber, French sponsored
genocide in Rwanda and of course, ethnic cleansing and genocide in the
Balkans (remember, war on the continent is 'unthinkable" now that you're so
"enlightened").
Some thing's never change.
Face it...your biggest problem is that you would never see a silly op/ed
like this about you in a US paper.
Being inconsequential is what upsets you. But don't worry...we'll pay
attention to you the NEXT time you throw a hissy fit and blow up the
planet. You did it twice in the 20th century....and you're about due.
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theedudester
February 14, 2007 7:27 AM
BUSHATERSDIE: (and others who no-doubt see themslves in a 'patriotic
light')
Can you respond to the posters who have outlined how the US has overthrown
democracy and killed large numbers of people in the name of Corporate
Interest? We're talking millions.
If not why bother posting?
In the mean time while you go over world History of the last 60 years
(focus on South East Asia and South America) I have highlighted my
favourite quotes from you.
You are obviously a product of a culture capable of informed, nuanced and
sophisticated political discussion.
the 50% who voted for your esteemed leader really make sense to me now.
Good day to you Sir.
" some people hate the US? WHO GIVES A DANG! If terrorist lovers hate us
that's great. Not one decent person hates the US. Nobody with an IQ abouve
1o hates the US."
"Every decent human being either loves us or the vast majority feel neither
way".
"You hate the US because we aren't laying down and dying for the terrorists
like you appeasers want to".
"You either hate the US or hate rape and blowing up children".
"Sitting back and letting the terrorist kill and kill and kill and rape and
rape and rape does not make peace".
(Actually it does. Have a look at US policy over the last 60 odd years. The
CIA did okay doing this in Chile, Iran, South East ASia, oh the list is
endless. )
"EVery single person who posted here would have no problem with Hitler
today. 6 million dead would be okay and dandy to you."
(YEP. You're right on the money here)
I disagree with americans who say Mexicans are our biggest problem. I see
what the **** of the world the muslims have done to Europe.
(and you visit Europe often do you? Hang on, you dont' need to as you can
watch FOX news and get a broad picture of life in Yurp)
I'd rather have a billion mexicans here than 1 muslim. The mexicans are
here to work. The muslims are there to murder. (again, Bush makes sense!)
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easilypleased
February 14, 2007 7:40 AM
bushhatersdie captures precisely why all right thinking people say
"God Bless America".
Think for a moment how we have profited over so many years from our
"special relationship" with bushhatersdie and their like.
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kartoon
February 14, 2007 7:45 AM
Having lived in Canada next to The Beast for 63 years, I have a well-
established suspicion of any claim that light may yet be seen at the other
[American] end of the tunnel. South of the 49th parallel I do see
widespread acceptance of magic thinking (creationism, Christian
primitivism, clapping louder to influence Tinkerbell, etc.), American
exceptionalism in all manner of international arrangements, and the most
profound and pervasive ignorance concerning the world. We here have seen
bilateral agreement after agreement casually violated, rude hectoring from
Ambassadors, and on a purely individual level uneasy but polite
indifference to foreign social context.
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coffee300am
February 14, 2007 8:01 AM
Please tell this story to the 20 million illegal persons living here and
also hand out flyers with this story printed on them in several different
languages to the hundreds which cross the Texas border illegally everyday.
Please place persons with microphones and loudspeakers in every country
repeating this story to the millions who wish to come here. America is
turning into a Nazi regime before your eyes!!! Shout this story from the
mountain!!! Maybe It