Re: Subpoenas In AIPAC Trial Could Reveal U.S. Secrets

D

Defendario

Guest
TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
the postlist to improve distribution.

Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
parties are, and who they represent.

Root them out.

Mirelle wrote:
> Subpoenas issued to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National
> Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and other top Bush administration
> officials could end up shedding unprecedented light on the Bush
> administration's inner workings and the government's dealings with the
> pro-Israel lobby.
>
> In an unusually broad ruling Nov. 2 in the classified information case
> against two ex-officials at the American Israel Public Affairs
> Committee (AIPAC), a federal judge allowed the defense to subpoena 15
> administration officials over the objections of the Bush
> administration.
>
> In addition to Rice and Hadley, the list also includes Elliot Abrams,
> deputy national security adviser who is also the administration's top
> policy official on the Middle East; Richard Armitage, former deputy
> secretary of state; Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of
> defense, and Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense.
>
> U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III in Alexandria, Va., not only
> ruled as relevant government conversations with the two defendants --
> Steve Rosen, AIPAC's former foreign policy boss, and Keith Weissman,
> his deputy and the lobby's top Iran analyst -- but also discussions
> that involved only U.S. officials.
>
> In addition, Ellis said the conversations between officials and other
> AIPAC representatives were in play. Such conversations are bound to
> reveal how AIPAC has been used as an instrument by one faction in
> government to influence or head off another, especially in the fight
> over how hard a line to take against Iran.
>
> Defense lawyers were elated with the ruling.
>
> "For over two years we have been explaining that our clients' conduct
> was lawful and completely consistent with how the U.S. government
> dealt with AIPAC and other foreign policy groups," said Rosen's
> lawyer, Abbe Lowell, in a statement issued also on behalf of
> Weissman's lawyer, John Nassikas.
>
> The attorneys each work at top-flight Washington firms: Lowell at
> McDermott, Will and Emery and Nassikas at Arent Fox.
>
> "We are gratified that the judge has agreed that the defense has the
> right to prove these points by calling the secretary of state and all
> of these other government officials as our witnesses," Lowell said.
> "We look forward to the trial of this case."
>
> The government may still oppose the subpoenas, but Ellis warned that
> this could endanger its case.
>
> "The government's refusal to comply with a subpoena in these
> circumstances may result in dismissal or a lesser sanction," the judge
> wrote.
>
> Rosen and Weissman were charged under a never-used statute in the 1917
> Espionage Act that criminalizes the receipt and dissemination of
> classified information by civilians. Free-speech advocates, press
> groups and lobbyists are closely watching the case.
>
> The defendants have long argued that conversations outlined in the
> August 2005 indictment were routine and part of the government's
> unofficial practice of using the pro-Israel lobby to convey
> information to Israel, the press, other nations or even other branches
> of government.
>
> Ellis in his ruling agreed that the defense was attempting to make a
> valid argument.
>
> "Defendants are entitled to show that, to them, there was simply no
> difference between the meetings for which they are not charged and
> those for which they are charged," Ellis wrote, "and that they
> believed that the meetings charged in the indictment were simply
> further examples of the government's use of AIPAC as a diplomatic back
> channel."
>
> Another five officials were left off the list for reasons Ellis kept
> classified. Defense sources said it was not clear if Ellis had ruled
> them out absolutely and that defense lawyers would seek his guidance
> on the matter.
>
> The government did not raise objections to the four subpoenas for
> officials who were identified in the indictment. One of those
> officials, Lawrence Franklin, an Iran analyst at the Pentagon, has
> pleaded guilty to leaking classified information and was sentenced to
> more than 12 years; he has not begun his sentence. Another, David
> Satterfield, is now Rice's top adviser on Iraq issues.
>
> The core of the indictment centers on a sting operation in the summer
> of 2004, when Franklin leaked to Weissman false information purporting
> that Iranian forces planned to kill Israeli agents in Kurdistan. Rosen
> and Weissman allegedly relayed the information to Israeli diplomats
> and journalists, and tried to pass it on to Abrams.
>
> Ellis dismissed out of hand all of the prosecution's objections,
> including whether such subpoenas would interfere with the business of
> government.
>
> "Inconvenience to public officials in the performance of their
> official duties is not a basis for infringing a defendant's Sixth
> Amendment compulsory process rights," the judge wrote.
>
> More broadly, Ellis dismissed government contentions that including
> conversations among government officials or between government
> officials and other AIPAC staffers amounted to hearsay.
>
> "Such meetings may nonetheless have affected defendants' states of
> mind if the contents of those meetings were later communicated to them
> by other AIPAC employers," Ellis wrote, allowing all relevant
> conversations between any AIPAC staffer and a government official to
> be included.
>
> Ellis added: "Conversations between two or more government officials,
> even if not communicated to defendants, might be relevant to show that
> particular government officials authorized the disclosure of nonpublic
> information to defendants or to AIPAC," he wrote. "For instance, if
> defendants can demonstrate that a high-ranking government official
> authorized his subordinate to disclose NDI," or national defense
> information, "to AIPAC employees, such an authorization would be
> exculpatory to defendants."
>
> Under this allowance, defense lawyers are free to probe Defense
> Department officials, including Wolfowitz, who might have sought to
> head off the State Department's Iran policy with selective leaks
> through AIPAC. Wolfowitz and others at the Pentagon toed a
> considerably harder line on Iran than those at the State Department
> and would have used AIPAC -- also hard-line in how to deal with the
> Islamic republic -- in lobbying Congress and shaping public opinion.
>
> http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=18469
>
> Mirelle
>
 
On Nov 13, 7:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
> traitors within the US goverment.


You are welcome.

> I have taken the liberty of modifying
> the postlist to improve distribution.


I am glad you are passing it on.

> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
> case involving Espionage against our Nation.


Indeed.

> We know who the guilty
> parties are, and who they represent.


> Root them out.


Jail them for crimes against humanity.

Mirelle
>
> Mirelle wrote:
> > Subpoenas issued to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National
> > Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and other top Bush administration
> > officials could end up shedding unprecedented light on the Bush
> > administration's inner workings and the government's dealings with the
> > pro-Israel lobby.

>
> > In an unusually broad ruling Nov. 2 in the classified information case
> > against two ex-officials at the American Israel Public Affairs
> > Committee (AIPAC), a federal judge allowed the defense to subpoena 15
> > administration officials over the objections of the Bush
> > administration.

>
> > In addition to Rice and Hadley, the list also includes Elliot Abrams,
> > deputy national security adviser who is also the administration's top
> > policy official on the Middle East; Richard Armitage, former deputy
> > secretary of state; Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of
> > defense, and Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense.

>
> > U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III in Alexandria, Va., not only
> > ruled as relevant government conversations with the two defendants --
> > Steve Rosen, AIPAC's former foreign policy boss, and Keith Weissman,
> > his deputy and the lobby's top Iran analyst -- but also discussions
> > that involved only U.S. officials.

>
> > In addition, Ellis said the conversations between officials and other
> > AIPAC representatives were in play. Such conversations are bound to
> > reveal how AIPAC has been used as an instrument by one faction in
> > government to influence or head off another, especially in the fight
> > over how hard a line to take against Iran.

>
> > Defense lawyers were elated with the ruling.

>
> > "For over two years we have been explaining that our clients' conduct
> > was lawful and completely consistent with how the U.S. government
> > dealt with AIPAC and other foreign policy groups," said Rosen's
> > lawyer, Abbe Lowell, in a statement issued also on behalf of
> > Weissman's lawyer, John Nassikas.

>
> > The attorneys each work at top-flight Washington firms: Lowell at
> > McDermott, Will and Emery and Nassikas at Arent Fox.

>
> > "We are gratified that the judge has agreed that the defense has the
> > right to prove these points by calling the secretary of state and all
> > of these other government officials as our witnesses," Lowell said.
> > "We look forward to the trial of this case."

>
> > The government may still oppose the subpoenas, but Ellis warned that
> > this could endanger its case.

>
> > "The government's refusal to comply with a subpoena in these
> > circumstances may result in dismissal or a lesser sanction," the judge
> > wrote.

>
> > Rosen and Weissman were charged under a never-used statute in the 1917
> > Espionage Act that criminalizes the receipt and dissemination of
> > classified information by civilians. Free-speech advocates, press
> > groups and lobbyists are closely watching the case.

>
> > The defendants have long argued that conversations outlined in the
> > August 2005 indictment were routine and part of the government's
> > unofficial practice of using the pro-Israel lobby to convey
> > information to Israel, the press, other nations or even other branches
> > of government.

>
> > Ellis in his ruling agreed that the defense was attempting to make a
> > valid argument.

>
> > "Defendants are entitled to show that, to them, there was simply no
> > difference between the meetings for which they are not charged and
> > those for which they are charged," Ellis wrote, "and that they
> > believed that the meetings charged in the indictment were simply
> > further examples of the government's use of AIPAC as a diplomatic back
> > channel."

>
> > Another five officials were left off the list for reasons Ellis kept
> > classified. Defense sources said it was not clear if Ellis had ruled
> > them out absolutely and that defense lawyers would seek his guidance
> > on the matter.

>
> > The government did not raise objections to the four subpoenas for
> > officials who were identified in the indictment. One of those
> > officials, Lawrence Franklin, an Iran analyst at the Pentagon, has
> > pleaded guilty to leaking classified information and was sentenced to
> > more than 12 years; he has not begun his sentence. Another, David
> > Satterfield, is now Rice's top adviser on Iraq issues.

>
> > The core of the indictment centers on a sting operation in the summer
> > of 2004, when Franklin leaked to Weissman false information purporting
> > that Iranian forces planned to kill Israeli agents in Kurdistan. Rosen
> > and Weissman allegedly relayed the information to Israeli diplomats
> > and journalists, and tried to pass it on to Abrams.

>
> > Ellis dismissed out of hand all of the prosecution's objections,
> > including whether such subpoenas would interfere with the business of
> > government.

>
> > "Inconvenience to public officials in the performance of their
> > official duties is not a basis for infringing a defendant's Sixth
> > Amendment compulsory process rights," the judge wrote.

>
> > More broadly, Ellis dismissed government contentions that including
> > conversations among government officials or between government
> > officials and other AIPAC staffers amounted to hearsay.

>
> > "Such meetings may nonetheless have affected defendants' states of
> > mind if the contents of those meetings were later communicated to them
> > by other AIPAC employers," Ellis wrote, allowing all relevant
> > conversations between any AIPAC staffer and a government official to
> > be included.

>
> > Ellis added: "Conversations between two or more government officials,
> > even if not communicated to defendants, might be relevant to show that
> > particular government officials authorized the disclosure of nonpublic
> > information to defendants or to AIPAC," he wrote. "For instance, if
> > defendants can demonstrate that a high-ranking government official
> > authorized his subordinate to disclose NDI," or national defense
> > information, "to AIPAC employees, such an authorization would be
> > exculpatory to defendants."

>
> > Under this allowance, defense lawyers are free to probe Defense
> > Department officials, including Wolfowitz, who might have sought to
> > head off the State Department's Iran policy with selective leaks
> > through AIPAC. Wolfowitz and others at the Pentagon toed a
> > considerably harder line on Iran than those at the State Department
> > and would have used AIPAC -- also hard-line in how to deal with the
> > Islamic republic -- in lobbying Congress and shaping public opinion.

>
> >http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=18469

>
> > Mirelle
 
On Nov 13, 10:20 am, Mirelle <gentile.mire...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 7:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>
> > TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
> > traitors within the US goverment.

>
> You are welcome.
>
> > I have taken the liberty of modifying
> > the postlist to improve distribution.

>
> I am glad you are passing it on.
>
> > Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
> > case involving Espionage against our Nation.

>
> Indeed.
>
> > We know who the guilty
> > parties are, and who they represent.
> > Root them out.

>
> Jail them for crimes against humanity.
>
> Mirelle
>




No. Hang them.






>
>
>
>
> > Mirelle wrote:
> > > Subpoenas issued to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National
> > > Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and other top Bush administration
> > > officials could end up shedding unprecedented light on the Bush
> > > administration's inner workings and the government's dealings with the
> > > pro-Israel lobby.

>
> > > In an unusually broad ruling Nov. 2 in the classified information case
> > > against two ex-officials at the American Israel Public Affairs
> > > Committee (AIPAC), a federal judge allowed the defense to subpoena 15
> > > administration officials over the objections of the Bush
> > > administration.

>
> > > In addition to Rice and Hadley, the list also includes Elliot Abrams,
> > > deputy national security adviser who is also the administration's top
> > > policy official on the Middle East; Richard Armitage, former deputy
> > > secretary of state; Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of
> > > defense, and Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense.

>
> > > U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III in Alexandria, Va., not only
> > > ruled as relevant government conversations with the two defendants --
> > > Steve Rosen, AIPAC's former foreign policy boss, and Keith Weissman,
> > > his deputy and the lobby's top Iran analyst -- but also discussions
> > > that involved only U.S. officials.

>
> > > In addition, Ellis said the conversations between officials and other
> > > AIPAC representatives were in play. Such conversations are bound to
> > > reveal how AIPAC has been used as an instrument by one faction in
> > > government to influence or head off another, especially in the fight
> > > over how hard a line to take against Iran.

>
> > > Defense lawyers were elated with the ruling.

>
> > > "For over two years we have been explaining that our clients' conduct
> > > was lawful and completely consistent with how the U.S. government
> > > dealt with AIPAC and other foreign policy groups," said Rosen's
> > > lawyer, Abbe Lowell, in a statement issued also on behalf of
> > > Weissman's lawyer, John Nassikas.

>
> > > The attorneys each work at top-flight Washington firms: Lowell at
> > > McDermott, Will and Emery and Nassikas at Arent Fox.

>
> > > "We are gratified that the judge has agreed that the defense has the
> > > right to prove these points by calling the secretary of state and all
> > > of these other government officials as our witnesses," Lowell said.
> > > "We look forward to the trial of this case."

>
> > > The government may still oppose the subpoenas, but Ellis warned that
> > > this could endanger its case.

>
> > > "The government's refusal to comply with a subpoena in these
> > > circumstances may result in dismissal or a lesser sanction," the judge
> > > wrote.

>
> > > Rosen and Weissman were charged under a never-used statute in the 1917
> > > Espionage Act that criminalizes the receipt and dissemination of
> > > classified information by civilians. Free-speech advocates, press
> > > groups and lobbyists are closely watching the case.

>
> > > The defendants have long argued that conversations outlined in the
> > > August 2005 indictment were routine and part of the government's
> > > unofficial practice of using the pro-Israel lobby to convey
> > > information to Israel, the press, other nations or even other branches
> > > of government.

>
> > > Ellis in his ruling agreed that the defense was attempting to make a
> > > valid argument.

>
> > > "Defendants are entitled to show that, to them, there was simply no
> > > difference between the meetings for which they are not charged and
> > > those for which they are charged," Ellis wrote, "and that they
> > > believed that the meetings charged in the indictment were simply
> > > further examples of the government's use of AIPAC as a diplomatic back
> > > channel."

>
> > > Another five officials were left off the list for reasons Ellis kept
> > > classified. Defense sources said it was not clear if Ellis had ruled
> > > them out absolutely and that defense lawyers would seek his guidance
> > > on the matter.

>
> > > The government did not raise objections to the four subpoenas for
> > > officials who were identified in the indictment. One of those
> > > officials, Lawrence Franklin, an Iran analyst at the Pentagon, has
> > > pleaded guilty to leaking classified information and was sentenced to
> > > more than 12 years; he has not begun his sentence. Another, David
> > > Satterfield, is now Rice's top adviser on Iraq issues.

>
> > > The core of the indictment centers on a sting operation in the summer
> > > of 2004, when Franklin leaked to Weissman false information purporting
> > > that Iranian forces planned to kill Israeli agents in Kurdistan. Rosen
> > > and Weissman allegedly relayed the information to Israeli diplomats
> > > and journalists, and tried to pass it on to Abrams.

>
> > > Ellis dismissed out of hand all of the prosecution's objections,
> > > including whether such subpoenas would interfere with the business of
> > > government.

>
> > > "Inconvenience to public officials in the performance of their
> > > official duties is not a basis for infringing a defendant's Sixth
> > > Amendment compulsory process rights," the judge wrote.

>
> > > More broadly, Ellis dismissed government contentions that including
> > > conversations among government officials or between government
> > > officials and other AIPAC staffers amounted to hearsay.

>
> > > "Such meetings may nonetheless have affected defendants' states of
> > > mind if the contents of those meetings were later communicated to them
> > > by other AIPAC employers," Ellis wrote, allowing all relevant
> > > conversations between any AIPAC staffer and a government official to
> > > be included.

>
> > > Ellis added: "Conversations between two or more government officials,
> > > even if not communicated to defendants, might be relevant to show that
> > > particular government officials authorized the disclosure of nonpublic
> > > information to defendants or to AIPAC," he wrote. "For instance, if
> > > defendants can demonstrate that a high-ranking government official
> > > authorized his subordinate to disclose NDI," or national defense
> > > information, "to AIPAC employees, such an authorization would be
> > > exculpatory to defendants."

>
> > > Under this allowance, defense lawyers are free to probe Defense
> > > Department officials, including Wolfowitz, who might have sought to
> > > head off the State Department's Iran policy with selective leaks
> > > through AIPAC. Wolfowitz and others at the Pentagon toed a
> > > considerably harder line on Iran than those at the State Department
> > > and would have used AIPAC -- also hard-line in how to deal with the
> > > Islamic republic -- in lobbying Congress and shaping public opinion.

>
> > >http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=18469

>
> > > Mirelle- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -
 
Hamas-Fatah rivalry turns deadly in Gaza
Hamas forces cracked down on Fatah supporters after a massive rally
Monday, reflecting increased tensions that cloud the outlook for
Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.
By Dan Murphy
from the November 14, 2007 edition

After an unexpected show of strength at a rally on Monday by
supporters of the Palestinian Fatah movement in the Gaza Strip, rival
Hamas forces - which control the area - moved quickly to arrest
hundreds of Fatah activists, increasing the likelihood of more
conflict in the territories.

The Palestinian split into two camps, a Fatah willing to compromise
with Israel and a Hamas still insistent on refusing to recognize the
right of the Jewish state to exist, and the newly heightened tensions
between the camps have further clouded the outlook for peace.

The Associated Press reports on the widening divide between Fatah and
Hamas, including David and Goliath scenes between the two groups
reminiscent of Israel's past confrontations with unarmed Palestinians.

Hamas security forces moved swiftly against their Fatah rivals in
the aftermath of a mass Fatah rally that ended with seven people dead,
rounding up 400 people in an overnight crackdown, Fatah officials said
Tuesday.

Monday's rally, a memorial service for the late Palestinian leader
Yasser Arafat, drew 250,000 people, making it Fatah's biggest show of
force in Gaza since Hamas took control of the coastal territory in
June.

The Fatah supporters pelted Hamas troops with stones, surging
forward even as they were met by heavy bursts of gunfire. One Hamas
policeman dropped to one knee for better aim. At one point, a young
stone thrower collapsed and was carried off by others.

The internecine violence points to grim prospects for peace talks the
US is expecting to sponsor between Fatah and Israel before the end of
the year, something that Israeli officials emphasized on Tuesday,
Agence France-Presse reports.

A senior Israeli official said the meeting, due to take place in
Annapolis, Maryland, may only last a single day and not involve any
real negotiations on ending the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian
conflict.

[Israeli Defense Minister Ehud] Barak also suggested that there
could be no progress while the Islamists of Hamas control the Gaza
Strip and until the Palestinians recognize the "Jewish character" of
Israel.

"Defendario" <Defendario@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:5ptvfsFt1qcvU1@mid.individual.net...
> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest
> of traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of
> modifying the postlist to improve distribution.
>
> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
> parties are, and who they represent.
>
> Root them out.
>
> Mirelle wrote:
>> Subpoenas issued to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice,
>> National
>> Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and other top Bush administration
>> officials could end up shedding unprecedented light on the Bush
>> administration's inner workings and the government's dealings with
>> the
>> pro-Israel lobby.
>>
>> In an unusually broad ruling Nov. 2 in the classified information
>> case
>> against two ex-officials at the American Israel Public Affairs
>> Committee (AIPAC), a federal judge allowed the defense to subpoena
>> 15
>> administration officials over the objections of the Bush
>> administration.
>>
>> In addition to Rice and Hadley, the list also includes Elliot
>> Abrams,
>> deputy national security adviser who is also the administration's
>> top
>> policy official on the Middle East; Richard Armitage, former deputy
>> secretary of state; Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of
>> defense, and Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense.
>>
>> U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III in Alexandria, Va., not
>> only
>> ruled as relevant government conversations with the two
>> defendants --
>> Steve Rosen, AIPAC's former foreign policy boss, and Keith
>> Weissman,
>> his deputy and the lobby's top Iran analyst -- but also discussions
>> that involved only U.S. officials.
>>
>> In addition, Ellis said the conversations between officials and
>> other
>> AIPAC representatives were in play. Such conversations are bound to
>> reveal how AIPAC has been used as an instrument by one faction in
>> government to influence or head off another, especially in the
>> fight
>> over how hard a line to take against Iran.
>>
>> Defense lawyers were elated with the ruling.
>>
>> "For over two years we have been explaining that our clients'
>> conduct
>> was lawful and completely consistent with how the U.S. government
>> dealt with AIPAC and other foreign policy groups," said Rosen's
>> lawyer, Abbe Lowell, in a statement issued also on behalf of
>> Weissman's lawyer, John Nassikas.
>>
>> The attorneys each work at top-flight Washington firms: Lowell at
>> McDermott, Will and Emery and Nassikas at Arent Fox.
>>
>> "We are gratified that the judge has agreed that the defense has
>> the
>> right to prove these points by calling the secretary of state and
>> all
>> of these other government officials as our witnesses," Lowell said.
>> "We look forward to the trial of this case."
>>
>> The government may still oppose the subpoenas, but Ellis warned
>> that
>> this could endanger its case.
>>
>> "The government's refusal to comply with a subpoena in these
>> circumstances may result in dismissal or a lesser sanction," the
>> judge
>> wrote.
>>
>> Rosen and Weissman were charged under a never-used statute in the
>> 1917
>> Espionage Act that criminalizes the receipt and dissemination of
>> classified information by civilians. Free-speech advocates, press
>> groups and lobbyists are closely watching the case.
>>
>> The defendants have long argued that conversations outlined in the
>> August 2005 indictment were routine and part of the government's
>> unofficial practice of using the pro-Israel lobby to convey
>> information to Israel, the press, other nations or even other
>> branches
>> of government.
>>
>> Ellis in his ruling agreed that the defense was attempting to make
>> a
>> valid argument.
>>
>> "Defendants are entitled to show that, to them, there was simply no
>> difference between the meetings for which they are not charged and
>> those for which they are charged," Ellis wrote, "and that they
>> believed that the meetings charged in the indictment were simply
>> further examples of the government's use of AIPAC as a diplomatic
>> back
>> channel."
>>
>> Another five officials were left off the list for reasons Ellis
>> kept
>> classified. Defense sources said it was not clear if Ellis had
>> ruled
>> them out absolutely and that defense lawyers would seek his
>> guidance
>> on the matter.
>>
>> The government did not raise objections to the four subpoenas for
>> officials who were identified in the indictment. One of those
>> officials, Lawrence Franklin, an Iran analyst at the Pentagon, has
>> pleaded guilty to leaking classified information and was sentenced
>> to
>> more than 12 years; he has not begun his sentence. Another, David
>> Satterfield, is now Rice's top adviser on Iraq issues.
>>
>> The core of the indictment centers on a sting operation in the
>> summer
>> of 2004, when Franklin leaked to Weissman false information
>> purporting
>> that Iranian forces planned to kill Israeli agents in Kurdistan.
>> Rosen
>> and Weissman allegedly relayed the information to Israeli diplomats
>> and journalists, and tried to pass it on to Abrams.
>>
>> Ellis dismissed out of hand all of the prosecution's objections,
>> including whether such subpoenas would interfere with the business
>> of
>> government.
>>
>> "Inconvenience to public officials in the performance of their
>> official duties is not a basis for infringing a defendant's Sixth
>> Amendment compulsory process rights," the judge wrote.
>>
>> More broadly, Ellis dismissed government contentions that including
>> conversations among government officials or between government
>> officials and other AIPAC staffers amounted to hearsay.
>>
>> "Such meetings may nonetheless have affected defendants' states of
>> mind if the contents of those meetings were later communicated to
>> them
>> by other AIPAC employers," Ellis wrote, allowing all relevant
>> conversations between any AIPAC staffer and a government official
>> to
>> be included.
>>
>> Ellis added: "Conversations between two or more government
>> officials,
>> even if not communicated to defendants, might be relevant to show
>> that
>> particular government officials authorized the disclosure of
>> nonpublic
>> information to defendants or to AIPAC," he wrote. "For instance, if
>> defendants can demonstrate that a high-ranking government official
>> authorized his subordinate to disclose NDI," or national defense
>> information, "to AIPAC employees, such an authorization would be
>> exculpatory to defendants."
>>
>> Under this allowance, defense lawyers are free to probe Defense
>> Department officials, including Wolfowitz, who might have sought to
>> head off the State Department's Iran policy with selective leaks
>> through AIPAC. Wolfowitz and others at the Pentagon toed a
>> considerably harder line on Iran than those at the State Department
>> and would have used AIPAC -- also hard-line in how to deal with the
>> Islamic republic -- in lobbying Congress and shaping public
>> opinion.
>>
>> http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=18469
>>
>> Mirelle
>>
 
On Nov 13, 2:28 pm, "Frank Arthur" <A...@Arthurian.com> wrote:

Nice try at deflection from the original thread.
Hasbara.

Mirelle
> Hamas-Fatah rivalry turns deadly in Gaza
> Hamas forces cracked down on Fatah supporters after a massive rally
> Monday, reflecting increased tensions that cloud the outlook for
> Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.
> By Dan Murphy
> from the November 14, 2007 edition
>
> After an unexpected show of strength at a rally on Monday by
> supporters of the Palestinian Fatah movement in the Gaza Strip, rival
> Hamas forces - which control the area - moved quickly to arrest
> hundreds of Fatah activists, increasing the likelihood of more
> conflict in the territories.
>
> The Palestinian split into two camps, a Fatah willing to compromise
> with Israel and a Hamas still insistent on refusing to recognize the
> right of the Jewish state to exist, and the newly heightened tensions
> between the camps have further clouded the outlook for peace.
>
> The Associated Press reports on the widening divide between Fatah and
> Hamas, including David and Goliath scenes between the two groups
> reminiscent of Israel's past confrontations with unarmed Palestinians.
>
> Hamas security forces moved swiftly against their Fatah rivals in
> the aftermath of a mass Fatah rally that ended with seven people dead,
> rounding up 400 people in an overnight crackdown, Fatah officials said
> Tuesday.
>
> Monday's rally, a memorial service for the late Palestinian leader
> Yasser Arafat, drew 250,000 people, making it Fatah's biggest show of
> force in Gaza since Hamas took control of the coastal territory in
> June.
>
> The Fatah supporters pelted Hamas troops with stones, surging
> forward even as they were met by heavy bursts of gunfire. One Hamas
> policeman dropped to one knee for better aim. At one point, a young
> stone thrower collapsed and was carried off by others.
>
> The internecine violence points to grim prospects for peace talks the
> US is expecting to sponsor between Fatah and Israel before the end of
> the year, something that Israeli officials emphasized on Tuesday,
> Agence France-Presse reports.
>
> A senior Israeli official said the meeting, due to take place in
> Annapolis, Maryland, may only last a single day and not involve any
> real negotiations on ending the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian
> conflict.
>
> [Israeli Defense Minister Ehud] Barak also suggested that there
> could be no progress while the Islamists of Hamas control the Gaza
> Strip and until the Palestinians recognize the "Jewish character" of
> Israel.
>
> "Defendario" <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5ptvfsFt1qcvU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest
> > of traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of
> > modifying the postlist to improve distribution.

>
> > Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
> > case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
> > parties are, and who they represent.

>
> > Root them out.

>
> > Mirelle wrote:
> >> Subpoenas issued to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice,
> >> National
> >> Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and other top Bush administration
> >> officials could end up shedding unprecedented light on the Bush
> >> administration's inner workings and the government's dealings with
> >> the
> >> pro-Israel lobby.

>
> >> In an unusually broad ruling Nov. 2 in the classified information
> >> case
> >> against two ex-officials at the American Israel Public Affairs
> >> Committee (AIPAC), a federal judge allowed the defense to subpoena
> >> 15
> >> administration officials over the objections of the Bush
> >> administration.

>
> >> In addition to Rice and Hadley, the list also includes Elliot
> >> Abrams,
> >> deputy national security adviser who is also the administration's
> >> top
> >> policy official on the Middle East; Richard Armitage, former deputy
> >> secretary of state; Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of
> >> defense, and Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense.

>
> >> U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III in Alexandria, Va., not
> >> only
> >> ruled as relevant government conversations with the two
> >> defendants --
> >> Steve Rosen, AIPAC's former foreign policy boss, and Keith
> >> Weissman,
> >> his deputy and the lobby's top Iran analyst -- but also discussions
> >> that involved only U.S. officials.

>
> >> In addition, Ellis said the conversations between officials and
> >> other
> >> AIPAC representatives were in play. Such conversations are bound to
> >> reveal how AIPAC has been used as an instrument by one faction in
> >> government to influence or head off another, especially in the
> >> fight
> >> over how hard a line to take against Iran.

>
> >> Defense lawyers were elated with the ruling.

>
> >> "For over two years we have been explaining that our clients'
> >> conduct
> >> was lawful and completely consistent with how the U.S. government
> >> dealt with AIPAC and other foreign policy groups," said Rosen's
> >> lawyer, Abbe Lowell, in a statement issued also on behalf of
> >> Weissman's lawyer, John Nassikas.

>
> >> The attorneys each work at top-flight Washington firms: Lowell at
> >> McDermott, Will and Emery and Nassikas at Arent Fox.

>
> >> "We are gratified that the judge has agreed that the defense has
> >> the
> >> right to prove these points by calling the secretary of state and
> >> all
> >> of these other government officials as our witnesses," Lowell said.
> >> "We look forward to the trial of this case."

>
> >> The government may still oppose the subpoenas, but Ellis warned
> >> that
> >> this could endanger its case.

>
> >> "The government's refusal to comply with a subpoena in these
> >> circumstances may result in dismissal or a lesser sanction," the
> >> judge
> >> wrote.

>
> >> Rosen and Weissman were charged under a never-used statute in the
> >> 1917
> >> Espionage Act that criminalizes the receipt and dissemination of
> >> classified information by civilians. Free-speech advocates, press
> >> groups and lobbyists are closely watching the case.

>
> >> The defendants have long argued that conversations outlined in the
> >> August 2005 indictment were routine and part of the government's
> >> unofficial practice of using the pro-Israel lobby to convey
> >> information to Israel, the press, other nations or even other
> >> branches
> >> of government.

>
> >> Ellis in his ruling agreed that the defense was attempting to make
> >> a
> >> valid argument.

>
> >> "Defendants are entitled to show that, to them, there was simply no
> >> difference between the meetings for which they are not charged and
> >> those for which they are charged," Ellis wrote, "and that they
> >> believed that the meetings charged in the indictment were simply
> >> further examples of the government's use of AIPAC as a diplomatic
> >> back
> >> channel."

>
> >> Another five officials were left off the list for reasons Ellis
> >> kept
> >> classified. Defense sources said it was not clear if Ellis had
> >> ruled
> >> them out absolutely and that defense lawyers would seek his
> >> guidance
> >> on the matter.

>
> >> The government did not raise objections to the four subpoenas for
> >> officials who were identified in the indictment. One of those
> >> officials, Lawrence Franklin, an Iran analyst at the Pentagon, has
> >> pleaded guilty to leaking classified information and was sentenced
> >> to
> >> more than 12 years; he has not begun his sentence. Another, David
> >> Satterfield, is now Rice's top adviser on Iraq issues.

>
> >> The core of the indictment centers on a sting operation in the
> >> summer
> >> of 2004, when Franklin leaked to Weissman false information
> >> purporting
> >> that Iranian forces planned to kill Israeli agents in Kurdistan.
> >> Rosen
> >> and Weissman allegedly relayed the information to Israeli diplomats
> >> and journalists, and tried to pass it on to Abrams.

>
> >> Ellis dismissed out of hand all of the prosecution's objections,
> >> including whether such subpoenas would interfere with the business
> >> of
> >> government.

>
> >> "Inconvenience to public officials in the performance of their
> >> official duties is not a basis for infringing a defendant's Sixth
> >> Amendment compulsory process rights," the judge wrote.

>
> >> More broadly, Ellis dismissed government contentions that including
> >> conversations among government officials or between government
> >> officials and other AIPAC staffers amounted to hearsay.

>
> >> "Such meetings may nonetheless have affected defendants' states of
> >> mind if the contents of those meetings were later communicated to
> >> them
> >> by other AIPAC employers," Ellis wrote, allowing all relevant
> >> conversations between any AIPAC staffer and a government official
> >> to
> >> be included.

>
> >> Ellis added: "Conversations between two or more government
> >> officials,
> >> even if not communicated to defendants, might be relevant to show
> >> that
> >> particular government officials authorized the disclosure of
> >> nonpublic
> >> information to defendants or to AIPAC," he wrote. "For instance, if
> >> defendants can demonstrate that a high-ranking government official
> >> authorized his subordinate to disclose NDI," or national defense
> >> information, "to AIPAC employees, such an authorization would be
> >> exculpatory to defendants."

>
> >> Under this allowance, defense lawyers are free to probe Defense
> >> Department officials, including Wolfowitz, who might have sought to
> >> head off the State Department's Iran policy with selective leaks
> >> through AIPAC. Wolfowitz and others at the Pentagon toed a
> >> considerably harder line on Iran than those at the State Department
> >> and would have used AIPAC -- also hard-line in how to deal with the
> >> Islamic republic -- in lobbying Congress and shaping public
> >> opinion.

>
> >>http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=18469

>
> >> Mirelle
 
On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
> the postlist to improve distribution.
>
> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
> parties are, and who they represent.
>
> Root them out.<


The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
Reagan bring down the Soviet Union. But this is soon forgotten. Today,
they are maligned because they tried to stand up to the Islamofascist
threat, but because Bush and his generals screwed up the war, Jews are
once again being tarred and feathered for the defeat, spurred forward
by the sympathizers of the Islamofascist forces. The true traitors
are trying, and have been partially successful, in uprooting patriots
who stand in their way. In the end, the accused will be vindicated.




>
> Mirelle wrote:
> > Subpoenas issued to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National
> > Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and other top Bush administration
> > officials could end up shedding unprecedented light on the Bush
> > administration's inner workings and the government's dealings with the
> > pro-Israel lobby.

>
> > In an unusually broad ruling Nov. 2 in the classified information case
> > against two ex-officials at the American Israel Public Affairs
> > Committee (AIPAC), a federal judge allowed the defense to subpoena 15
> > administration officials over the objections of the Bush
> > administration.

>
> > In addition to Rice and Hadley, the list also includes Elliot Abrams,
> > deputy national security adviser who is also the administration's top
> > policy official on the Middle East; Richard Armitage, former deputy
> > secretary of state; Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of
> > defense, and Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense.

>
> > U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III in Alexandria, Va., not only
> > ruled as relevant government conversations with the two defendants --
> > Steve Rosen, AIPAC's former foreign policy boss, and Keith Weissman,
> > his deputy and the lobby's top Iran analyst -- but also discussions
> > that involved only U.S. officials.

>
> > In addition, Ellis said the conversations between officials and other
> > AIPAC representatives were in play. Such conversations are bound to
> > reveal how AIPAC has been used as an instrument by one faction in
> > government to influence or head off another, especially in the fight
> > over how hard a line to take against Iran.

>
> > Defense lawyers were elated with the ruling.

>
> > "For over two years we have been explaining that our clients' conduct
> > was lawful and completely consistent with how the U.S. government
> > dealt with AIPAC and other foreign policy groups," said Rosen's
> > lawyer, Abbe Lowell, in a statement issued also on behalf of
> > Weissman's lawyer, John Nassikas.

>
> > The attorneys each work at top-flight Washington firms: Lowell at
> > McDermott, Will and Emery and Nassikas at Arent Fox.

>
> > "We are gratified that the judge has agreed that the defense has the
> > right to prove these points by calling the secretary of state and all
> > of these other government officials as our witnesses," Lowell said.
> > "We look forward to the trial of this case."

>
> > The government may still oppose the subpoenas, but Ellis warned that
> > this could endanger its case.

>
> > "The government's refusal to comply with a subpoena in these
> > circumstances may result in dismissal or a lesser sanction," the judge
> > wrote.

>
> > Rosen and Weissman were charged under a never-used statute in the 1917
> > Espionage Act that criminalizes the receipt and dissemination of
> > classified information by civilians. Free-speech advocates, press
> > groups and lobbyists are closely watching the case.

>
> > The defendants have long argued that conversations outlined in the
> > August 2005 indictment were routine and part of the government's
> > unofficial practice of using the pro-Israel lobby to convey
> > information to Israel, the press, other nations or even other branches
> > of government.

>
> > Ellis in his ruling agreed that the defense was attempting to make a
> > valid argument.

>
> > "Defendants are entitled to show that, to them, there was simply no
> > difference between the meetings for which they are not charged and
> > those for which they are charged," Ellis wrote, "and that they
> > believed that the meetings charged in the indictment were simply
> > further examples of the government's use of AIPAC as a diplomatic back
> > channel."

>
> > Another five officials were left off the list for reasons Ellis kept
> > classified. Defense sources said it was not clear if Ellis had ruled
> > them out absolutely and that defense lawyers would seek his guidance
> > on the matter.

>
> > The government did not raise objections to the four subpoenas for
> > officials who were identified in the indictment. One of those
> > officials, Lawrence Franklin, an Iran analyst at the Pentagon, has
> > pleaded guilty to leaking classified information and was sentenced to
> > more than 12 years; he has not begun his sentence. Another, David
> > Satterfield, is now Rice's top adviser on Iraq issues.

>
> > The core of the indictment centers on a sting operation in the summer
> > of 2004, when Franklin leaked to Weissman false information purporting
> > that Iranian forces planned to kill Israeli agents in Kurdistan. Rosen
> > and Weissman allegedly relayed the information to Israeli diplomats
> > and journalists, and tried to pass it on to Abrams.

>
> > Ellis dismissed out of hand all of the prosecution's objections,
> > including whether such subpoenas would interfere with the business of
> > government.

>
> > "Inconvenience to public officials in the performance of their
> > official duties is not a basis for infringing a defendant's Sixth
> > Amendment compulsory process rights," the judge wrote.

>
> > More broadly, Ellis dismissed government contentions that including
> > conversations among government officials or between government
> > officials and other AIPAC staffers amounted to hearsay.

>
> > "Such meetings may nonetheless have affected defendants' states of
> > mind if the contents of those meetings were later communicated to them
> > by other AIPAC employers," Ellis wrote, allowing all relevant
> > conversations between any AIPAC staffer and a government official to
> > be included.

>
> > Ellis added: "Conversations between two or more government officials,
> > even if not communicated to defendants, might be relevant to show that
> > particular government officials authorized the disclosure of nonpublic
> > information to defendants or to AIPAC," he wrote. "For instance, if
> > defendants can demonstrate that a high-ranking government official
> > authorized his subordinate to disclose NDI," or national defense
> > information, "to AIPAC employees, such an authorization would be
> > exculpatory to defendants."

>
> > Under this allowance, defense lawyers are free to probe Defense
> > Department officials, including Wolfowitz, who might have sought to
> > head off the State Department's Iran policy with selective leaks
> > through AIPAC. Wolfowitz and others at the Pentagon toed a
> > considerably harder line on Iran than those at the State Department
> > and would have used AIPAC -- also hard-line in how to deal with the
> > Islamic republic -- in lobbying Congress and shaping public opinion.

>
> >http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=18469

>
> > Mirelle
 
jgarbuz wrote:
> On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
>> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
>> the postlist to improve distribution.
>>
>> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
>> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
>> parties are, and who they represent.
>>
>> Root them out.<

>
> The fact is, that these "neocons,"


They're traitors, Jiggaboo. Hang 'em high.

>
>
>
>> Mirelle wrote:
>>> Subpoenas issued to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National
>>> Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and other top Bush administration
>>> officials could end up shedding unprecedented light on the Bush
>>> administration's inner workings and the government's dealings with the
>>> pro-Israel lobby.
>>> In an unusually broad ruling Nov. 2 in the classified information case
>>> against two ex-officials at the American Israel Public Affairs
>>> Committee (AIPAC), a federal judge allowed the defense to subpoena 15
>>> administration officials over the objections of the Bush
>>> administration.
>>> In addition to Rice and Hadley, the list also includes Elliot Abrams,
>>> deputy national security adviser who is also the administration's top
>>> policy official on the Middle East; Richard Armitage, former deputy
>>> secretary of state; Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of
>>> defense, and Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense.
>>> U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III in Alexandria, Va., not only
>>> ruled as relevant government conversations with the two defendants --
>>> Steve Rosen, AIPAC's former foreign policy boss, and Keith Weissman,
>>> his deputy and the lobby's top Iran analyst -- but also discussions
>>> that involved only U.S. officials.
>>> In addition, Ellis said the conversations between officials and other
>>> AIPAC representatives were in play. Such conversations are bound to
>>> reveal how AIPAC has been used as an instrument by one faction in
>>> government to influence or head off another, especially in the fight
>>> over how hard a line to take against Iran.
>>> Defense lawyers were elated with the ruling.
>>> "For over two years we have been explaining that our clients' conduct
>>> was lawful and completely consistent with how the U.S. government
>>> dealt with AIPAC and other foreign policy groups," said Rosen's
>>> lawyer, Abbe Lowell, in a statement issued also on behalf of
>>> Weissman's lawyer, John Nassikas.
>>> The attorneys each work at top-flight Washington firms: Lowell at
>>> McDermott, Will and Emery and Nassikas at Arent Fox.
>>> "We are gratified that the judge has agreed that the defense has the
>>> right to prove these points by calling the secretary of state and all
>>> of these other government officials as our witnesses," Lowell said.
>>> "We look forward to the trial of this case."
>>> The government may still oppose the subpoenas, but Ellis warned that
>>> this could endanger its case.
>>> "The government's refusal to comply with a subpoena in these
>>> circumstances may result in dismissal or a lesser sanction," the judge
>>> wrote.
>>> Rosen and Weissman were charged under a never-used statute in the 1917
>>> Espionage Act that criminalizes the receipt and dissemination of
>>> classified information by civilians. Free-speech advocates, press
>>> groups and lobbyists are closely watching the case.
>>> The defendants have long argued that conversations outlined in the
>>> August 2005 indictment were routine and part of the government's
>>> unofficial practice of using the pro-Israel lobby to convey
>>> information to Israel, the press, other nations or even other branches
>>> of government.
>>> Ellis in his ruling agreed that the defense was attempting to make a
>>> valid argument.
>>> "Defendants are entitled to show that, to them, there was simply no
>>> difference between the meetings for which they are not charged and
>>> those for which they are charged," Ellis wrote, "and that they
>>> believed that the meetings charged in the indictment were simply
>>> further examples of the government's use of AIPAC as a diplomatic back
>>> channel."
>>> Another five officials were left off the list for reasons Ellis kept
>>> classified. Defense sources said it was not clear if Ellis had ruled
>>> them out absolutely and that defense lawyers would seek his guidance
>>> on the matter.
>>> The government did not raise objections to the four subpoenas for
>>> officials who were identified in the indictment. One of those
>>> officials, Lawrence Franklin, an Iran analyst at the Pentagon, has
>>> pleaded guilty to leaking classified information and was sentenced to
>>> more than 12 years; he has not begun his sentence. Another, David
>>> Satterfield, is now Rice's top adviser on Iraq issues.
>>> The core of the indictment centers on a sting operation in the summer
>>> of 2004, when Franklin leaked to Weissman false information purporting
>>> that Iranian forces planned to kill Israeli agents in Kurdistan. Rosen
>>> and Weissman allegedly relayed the information to Israeli diplomats
>>> and journalists, and tried to pass it on to Abrams.
>>> Ellis dismissed out of hand all of the prosecution's objections,
>>> including whether such subpoenas would interfere with the business of
>>> government.
>>> "Inconvenience to public officials in the performance of their
>>> official duties is not a basis for infringing a defendant's Sixth
>>> Amendment compulsory process rights," the judge wrote.
>>> More broadly, Ellis dismissed government contentions that including
>>> conversations among government officials or between government
>>> officials and other AIPAC staffers amounted to hearsay.
>>> "Such meetings may nonetheless have affected defendants' states of
>>> mind if the contents of those meetings were later communicated to them
>>> by other AIPAC employers," Ellis wrote, allowing all relevant
>>> conversations between any AIPAC staffer and a government official to
>>> be included.
>>> Ellis added: "Conversations between two or more government officials,
>>> even if not communicated to defendants, might be relevant to show that
>>> particular government officials authorized the disclosure of nonpublic
>>> information to defendants or to AIPAC," he wrote. "For instance, if
>>> defendants can demonstrate that a high-ranking government official
>>> authorized his subordinate to disclose NDI," or national defense
>>> information, "to AIPAC employees, such an authorization would be
>>> exculpatory to defendants."
>>> Under this allowance, defense lawyers are free to probe Defense
>>> Department officials, including Wolfowitz, who might have sought to
>>> head off the State Department's Iran policy with selective leaks
>>> through AIPAC. Wolfowitz and others at the Pentagon toed a
>>> considerably harder line on Iran than those at the State Department
>>> and would have used AIPAC -- also hard-line in how to deal with the
>>> Islamic republic -- in lobbying Congress and shaping public opinion.
>>> http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=18469
>>> Mirelle

>
>
 
"jgarbuz" <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1195063672.791037.192510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
>> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
>> the postlist to improve distribution.
>>
>> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
>> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
>> parties are, and who they represent.
>>
>> Root them out.<

>
> The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
> Reagan bring down the Soviet Union.


They weren't around then, garbageguz.

Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was
responsible for that.
 
On Nov 15, 2:19 am, "B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlytetr...@alltimes.yo>
wrote:
> "jgarbuz" <jgar...@netzero.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1195063672.791037.192510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
> >> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
> >> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
> >> the postlist to improve distribution.

>
> >> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
> >> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
> >> parties are, and who they represent.

>
> >> Root them out.<

>
> > The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
> > Reagan bring down the Soviet Union.

>
> They weren't around then, garbageguz.<


Yes they were. They were all in the Reagan administration, Pearle,
Wolfowitz, and the rest of the bunch.

> Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was
> responsible for that.<


Bullshit. In 1984 I WAS THE FIRST PERSON IN THE WORLD (that I know of)
that predicted the quick demise of the USSR when Andropov died. The
next day, when I heard the news that the last committed Bolshevik in
the Central Committee had croaked, I immediately told it to the
Russian Jewish engineers and technicians working at the Israeli
company I too was working at, they derided me and called me a lunatic.
They said to me that it was impossible for an American to possibly
even begin to imagine how STRONG, how tough, how hard the Soviet
machine was. I replied, that that the diamond is the hardest of
substances, and yet, all it takes is a deft blow in the right place,
and it splits into pieces. Nonetheless they dismissed me and my
conclusion with the wave of a hand. I also KNEW that Reagan had made
TWO promises to America: to bring down taxes, and to bring down
communism, and that he would keep his promises. While I was still a
liberal at the time, nonetheless I had followed Reagan's career from
movies to TV, and into politics, and knew he said what he meant, and
meant what he said. Anyhow, there is no doubt that it was Reagan who
did it, and all who claim otherwise are sour grapes who refuse to give
the man his due.
 
jgarbuz wrote:
> On Nov 15, 2:19 am, "B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlytetr...@alltimes.yo>
> wrote:
>> "jgarbuz" <jgar...@netzero.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1195063672.791037.192510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>>>> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
>>>> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
>>>> the postlist to improve distribution.
>>>> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
>>>> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
>>>> parties are, and who they represent.
>>>> Root them out.<
>>> The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
>>> Reagan bring down the Soviet Union.

>> They weren't around then, garbageguz.<

>
> Yes they were. They were all in the Reagan administration, Pearle,
> Wolfowitz, and the rest of the bunch.
>


Yes. The zioNists have been planting moles in our government for a long
time, Jiggaboo.

>> Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was
>> responsible for that.<

>
> Bullshit.


Your opinion is noted, and filed (circular)
 
On Nov 15, 5:05 pm, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
> jgarbuzwrote:
> > On Nov 15, 2:19 am, "B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlytetr...@alltimes.yo>
> > wrote:
> >> "jgarbuz" <jgar...@netzero.com> wrote in message

>
> >>news:1195063672.791037.192510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>
> >>> On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
> >>>> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
> >>>> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
> >>>> the postlist to improve distribution.
> >>>> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
> >>>> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
> >>>> parties are, and who they represent.
> >>>> Root them out.<
> >>> The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
> >>> Reagan bring down the Soviet Union.
> >> They weren't around then, garbageguz.<

>
> > Yes they were. They were all in the Reagan administration, Pearle,
> > Wolfowitz, and the rest of the bunch.

>
> Yes. The zioNists have been planting moles in our government for a long
> time, Jiggaboo.
>
> >> Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was
> >> responsible for that.<

>
> > Bullshit.

>
> Your opinion is noted, and filed (circular)<


File yourself in the same place, and then flush it.
 
jgarbuz wrote:
> On Nov 15, 5:05 pm, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>> jgarbuzwrote:
>>> On Nov 15, 2:19 am, "B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlytetr...@alltimes.yo>
>>> wrote:
>>>> "jgarbuz" <jgar...@netzero.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1195063672.791037.192510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>>>>>> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
>>>>>> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
>>>>>> the postlist to improve distribution.
>>>>>> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
>>>>>> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
>>>>>> parties are, and who they represent.
>>>>>> Root them out.<
>>>>> The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
>>>>> Reagan bring down the Soviet Union.
>>>> They weren't around then, garbageguz.<
>>> Yes they were. They were all in the Reagan administration, Pearle,
>>> Wolfowitz, and the rest of the bunch.

>> Yes. The zioNists have been planting moles in our government for a long
>> time, Jiggaboo.
>>


No denials here, I see. :)

>>>> Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was
>>>> responsible for that.<
>>> Bullshit.

>> Your opinion is noted, and filed (circular)<

>
> File yourself in the same place, and then flush it.
>


No can do, Jiggaboo. I'm going to keep deviling you judeoFascist
bastards as long as I'm able.
 
jgarbuz wrote:
> On Nov 15, 7:22 pm, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>> jgarbuzwrote:
>>> On Nov 15, 5:05 pm, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>>>> jgarbuzwrote:
>>>>> On Nov 15, 2:19 am, "B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlytetr...@alltimes.yo>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> "jgarbuz" <jgar...@netzero.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:1195063672.791037.192510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
>>>>>>>> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
>>>>>>>> the postlist to improve distribution.
>>>>>>>> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
>>>>>>>> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
>>>>>>>> parties are, and who they represent.
>>>>>>>> Root them out.<
>>>>>>> The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
>>>>>>> Reagan bring down the Soviet Union.
>>>>>> They weren't around then, garbageguz.<
>>>>> Yes they were. They were all in the Reagan administration, Pearle,
>>>>> Wolfowitz, and the rest of the bunch.
>>>> Yes. The zioNists have been planting moles in our government for a long
>>>> time, Jiggaboo.

>> No denials here, I see. :)
>>
>>>>>> Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was
>>>>>> responsible for that.<
>>>>> Bullshit.
>>>> Your opinion is noted, and filed (circular)<
>>> File yourself in the same place, and then flush it.

>> No can do, Jiggaboo. I'm going to keep deviling you judeoFascist
>> bastards as long as I'm able.<

>
> JudeoFascists shoot back and don't apologize for it. I support Jewish
> fascism. I wish there was some somewhere. I'd join the party in a
> flash.
>


You're a traitor, Jiggaboo. You should be deported immediately, since
you are clearly unstable and a threat to society.
 
On Nov 15, 7:22 pm, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
> jgarbuzwrote:
> > On Nov 15, 5:05 pm, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
> >> jgarbuzwrote:
> >>> On Nov 15, 2:19 am, "B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlytetr...@alltimes.yo>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> "jgarbuz" <jgar...@netzero.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:1195063672.791037.192510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
> >>>>>> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
> >>>>>> the postlist to improve distribution.
> >>>>>> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
> >>>>>> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
> >>>>>> parties are, and who they represent.
> >>>>>> Root them out.<
> >>>>> The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
> >>>>> Reagan bring down the Soviet Union.
> >>>> They weren't around then, garbageguz.<
> >>> Yes they were. They were all in the Reagan administration, Pearle,
> >>> Wolfowitz, and the rest of the bunch.
> >> Yes. The zioNists have been planting moles in our government for a long
> >> time, Jiggaboo.

>
> No denials here, I see. :)
>
> >>>> Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was
> >>>> responsible for that.<
> >>> Bullshit.
> >> Your opinion is noted, and filed (circular)<

>
> > File yourself in the same place, and then flush it.

>
> No can do, Jiggaboo. I'm going to keep deviling you judeoFascist
> bastards as long as I'm able.<


JudeoFascists shoot back and don't apologize for it. I support Jewish
fascism. I wish there was some somewhere. I'd join the party in a
flash.
 
On Nov 14, 10:07 am, jgarbuz <jgar...@netzero.com> wrote:
> On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>
> > TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
> > traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of modifying
> > the postlist to improve distribution.

>
> > Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
> > case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
> > parties are, and who they represent.

>
> > Root them out.<

>
> The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
> Reagan bring down the Soviet Union. But this is soon forgotten. Today,
> they are maligned because they tried to stand up to the Islamofascist
> threat, but because Bush and his generals screwed up the war, Jews are
> once again being tarred and feathered for the defeat, spurred forward
> by the sympathizers of the Islamofascist forces. The true traitors
> are trying, and have been partially successful, in uprooting patriots
> who stand in their way. In the end, the accused will be vindicated.
>
>
>
> > Mirelle wrote:
> > > Subpoenas issued to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National
> > > Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and other top Bush administration
> > > officials could end up shedding unprecedented light on the Bush
> > > administration's inner workings and the government's dealings with the
> > > pro-Israel lobby.

>
> > > In an unusually broad ruling Nov. 2 in the classified information case
> > > against two ex-officials at the American Israel Public Affairs
> > > Committee (AIPAC), a federal judge allowed the defense to subpoena 15
> > > administration officials over the objections of the Bush
> > > administration.

>
> > > In addition to Rice and Hadley, the list also includes Elliot Abrams,
> > > deputy national security adviser who is also the administration's top
> > > policy official on the Middle East; Richard Armitage, former deputy
> > > secretary of state; Paul Wolfowitz, former deputy secretary of
> > > defense, and Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense.

>
> > > U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis III in Alexandria, Va., not only
> > > ruled as relevant government conversations with the two defendants --
> > > Steve Rosen, AIPAC's former foreign policy boss, and Keith Weissman,
> > > his deputy and the lobby's top Iran analyst -- but also discussions
> > > that involved only U.S. officials.

>
> > > In addition, Ellis said the conversations between officials and other
> > > AIPAC representatives were in play. Such conversations are bound to
> > > reveal how AIPAC has been used as an instrument by one faction in
> > > government to influence or head off another, especially in the fight
> > > over how hard a line to take against Iran.

>
> > > Defense lawyers were elated with the ruling.

>
> > > "For over two years we have been explaining that our clients' conduct
> > > was lawful and completely consistent with how the U.S. government
> > > dealt with AIPAC and other foreign policy groups," said Rosen's
> > > lawyer, Abbe Lowell, in a statement issued also on behalf of
> > > Weissman's lawyer, John Nassikas.

>
> > > The attorneys each work at top-flight Washington firms: Lowell at
> > > McDermott, Will and Emery and Nassikas at Arent Fox.

>
> > > "We are gratified that the judge has agreed that the defense has the
> > > right to prove these points by calling the secretary of state and all
> > > of these other government officials as our witnesses," Lowell said.
> > > "We look forward to the trial of this case."

>
> > > The government may still oppose the subpoenas, but Ellis warned that
> > > this could endanger its case.

>
> > > "The government's refusal to comply with a subpoena in these
> > > circumstances may result in dismissal or a lesser sanction," the judge
> > > wrote.

>
> > > Rosen and Weissman were charged under a never-used statute in the 1917
> > > Espionage Act that criminalizes the receipt and dissemination of
> > > classified information by civilians. Free-speech advocates, press
> > > groups and lobbyists are closely watching the case.

>
> > > The defendants have long argued that conversations outlined in the
> > > August 2005 indictment were routine and part of the government's
> > > unofficial practice of using the pro-Israel lobby to convey
> > > information to Israel, the press, other nations or even other branches
> > > of government.

>
> > > Ellis in his ruling agreed that the defense was attempting to make a
> > > valid argument.

>
> > > "Defendants are entitled to show that, to them, there was simply no
> > > difference between the meetings for which they are not charged and
> > > those for which they are charged," Ellis wrote, "and that they
> > > believed that the meetings charged in the indictment were simply
> > > further examples of the government's use of AIPAC as a diplomatic back
> > > channel."

>
> > > Another five officials were left off the list for reasons Ellis kept
> > > classified. Defense sources said it was not clear if Ellis had ruled
> > > them out absolutely and that defense lawyers would seek his guidance
> > > on the matter.

>
> > > The government did not raise objections to the four subpoenas for
> > > officials who were identified in the indictment. One of those
> > > officials, Lawrence Franklin, an Iran analyst at the Pentagon, has
> > > pleaded guilty to leaking classified information and was sentenced to
> > > more than 12 years; he has not begun his sentence. Another, David
> > > Satterfield, is now Rice's top adviser on Iraq issues.

>
> > > The core of the indictment centers on a sting operation in the summer
> > > of 2004, when Franklin leaked to Weissman false information purporting
> > > that Iranian forces planned to kill Israeli agents in Kurdistan. Rosen
> > > and Weissman allegedly relayed the information to Israeli diplomats
> > > and journalists, and tried to pass it on to Abrams.

>
> > > Ellis dismissed out of hand all of the prosecution's objections,
> > > including whether such subpoenas would interfere with the business of
> > > government.

>
> > > "Inconvenience to public officials in the performance of their
> > > official duties is not a basis for infringing a defendant's Sixth
> > > Amendment compulsory process rights," the judge wrote.

>
> > > More broadly, Ellis dismissed government contentions that including
> > > conversations among government officials or between government
> > > officials and other AIPAC staffers amounted to hearsay.

>
> > > "Such meetings may nonetheless have affected defendants' states of
> > > mind if the contents of those meetings were later communicated to them
> > > by other AIPAC employers," Ellis wrote, allowing all relevant
> > > conversations between any AIPAC staffer and a government official to
> > > be included.

>
> > > Ellis added: "Conversations between two or more government officials,
> > > even if not communicated to defendants, might be relevant to show that
> > > particular government officials authorized the disclosure of nonpublic
> > > information to defendants or to AIPAC," he wrote. "For instance, if
> > > defendants can demonstrate that a high-ranking government official
> > > authorized his subordinate to disclose NDI," or national defense
> > > information, "to AIPAC employees, such an authorization would be
> > > exculpatory to defendants."

>
> > > Under this allowance, defense lawyers are free to probe Defense
> > > Department officials, including Wolfowitz, who might have sought to
> > > head off the State Department's Iran policy with selective leaks
> > > through AIPAC. Wolfowitz and others at the Pentagon toed a
> > > considerably harder line on Iran than those at the State Department
> > > and would have used AIPAC -- also hard-line in how to deal with the
> > > Islamic republic -- in lobbying Congress and shaping public opinion.

>
> > >http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=18469

>
> > > Mirelle


Reagan brought down the Soviets? When will this myth finally be
debunked?
 
"jgarbuz" <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:0f590d8f-d7ad-4b4c-b005-c4220240744c@f13g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 15, 2:19 am, "B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlytetr...@alltimes.yo>
> wrote:
>> "jgarbuz" <jgar...@netzero.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1195063672.791037.192510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>> >> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest of
>> >> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of
>> >> modifying
>> >> the postlist to improve distribution.

>>
>> >> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to this
>> >> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the guilty
>> >> parties are, and who they represent.

>>
>> >> Root them out.<

>>
>> > The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
>> > Reagan bring down the Soviet Union.

>>
>> They weren't around then, garbageguz.<

>
> Yes they were. They were all in the Reagan administration, Pearle,
> Wolfowitz, and the rest of the bunch.


Not as "neo-cons" dickwad. The term hadn't even been coined then.


>
>> Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Soviet Union. Gorbachev
>> was
>> responsible for that.<

>
> Bullshit.


Not bullshit at all. Gorbachev achieved that with no assistance from the
sufferer of dementia who was running the Jewnited States at the time.
 
"jgarbuz" <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:973ab4e5-b58c-490f-b051-cc08184fc77b@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 15, 7:22 pm, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>> jgarbuzwrote:
>> > On Nov 15, 5:05 pm, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>> >> jgarbuzwrote:
>> >>> On Nov 15, 2:19 am, "B'enjamin C'ramer" <onlytetr...@alltimes.yo>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>> "jgarbuz" <jgar...@netzero.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:1195063672.791037.192510@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> >>>>> On Nov 13, 10:48 am, Defendario <Defenda...@netscape.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> TY for posting this extremely important article regarding the nest
>> >>>>>> of
>> >>>>>> traitors within the US goverment. I have taken the liberty of
>> >>>>>> modifying
>> >>>>>> the postlist to improve distribution.
>> >>>>>> Every American needs to understand what happened with regard to
>> >>>>>> this
>> >>>>>> case involving Espionage against our Nation. We know who the
>> >>>>>> guilty
>> >>>>>> parties are, and who they represent.
>> >>>>>> Root them out.<
>> >>>>> The fact is, that these "neocons," as they are now labelled, helped
>> >>>>> Reagan bring down the Soviet Union.
>> >>>> They weren't around then, garbageguz.<
>> >>> Yes they were. They were all in the Reagan administration, Pearle,
>> >>> Wolfowitz, and the rest of the bunch.
>> >> Yes. The zioNists have been planting moles in our government for a
>> >> long
>> >> time, Jiggaboo.

>>
>> No denials here, I see. :)
>>
>> >>>> Reagan had nothing to do with bringing down the Soviet Union.
>> >>>> Gorbachev was
>> >>>> responsible for that.<
>> >>> Bullshit.
>> >> Your opinion is noted, and filed (circular)<

>>
>> > File yourself in the same place, and then flush it.

>>
>> No can do, Jiggaboo. I'm going to keep deviling you judeoFascist
>> bastards as long as I'm able.<

>
> JudeoFascists shoot back


Not when they're being shot at, dickhead. The run home in tears.
 
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