Real Health Care Reform

ImWithStupid

New member
Not government take over of 1/6 of the economy...

AUGUST 11, 2009, 7:30 P.M. ET

 


The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare




Eight things we can do to improve health care without adding to the deficit.

By JOHN MACKEY

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out


of other people's money."


?Margaret Thatcher

With a projected $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009, several trillions more in deficits projected over the next decade, and with both Medicare and Social Security entitlement spending about to ratchet up several notches over the next 15 years as Baby Boomers become eligible for both, we are rapidly running out of other people's money. These deficits are simply not sustainable. They are either going to result in unprecedented new taxes and inflation, or they will bankrupt us.

While we clearly need health-care reform, the last thing our country needs is a massive new health-care entitlement that will create hundreds of billions of dollars of new unfunded deficits and move us much closer to a government takeover of our health-care system. Instead, we should be trying to achieve reforms by moving in the opposite direction?toward less government control and more individual empowerment. Here are eight reforms that would greatly lower the cost of health care for everyone:

? Remove the legal obstacles that slow the creation of high-deductible health insurance plans and health savings accounts (HSAs). The combination of high-deductible health insurance and HSAs is one solution that could solve many of our health-care problems. For example, Whole Foods Market pays 100% of the premiums for all our team members who work 30 hours or more per week (about 89% of all team members) for our high-deductible health-insurance plan. We also provide up to $1,800 per year in additional health-care dollars through deposits into employees' Personal Wellness Accounts to spend as they choose on their own health and wellness.

Money not spent in one year rolls over to the next and grows over time. Our team members therefore spend their own health-care dollars until the annual deductible is covered (about $2,500) and the insurance plan kicks in. This creates incentives to spend the first $2,500 more carefully. Our plan's costs are much lower than typical health insurance, while providing a very high degree of worker satisfaction.

? Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits. Now employer health insurance benefits are fully tax deductible, but individual health insurance is not. This is unfair.

? Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines. We should all have the legal right to purchase health insurance from any insurance company in any state and we should be able use that insurance wherever we live. Health insurance should be portable.

? Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover. These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance by billions of dollars. What is insured and what is not insured should be determined by individual customer preferences and not through special-interest lobbying.

? Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. These costs are passed back to us through much higher prices for health care.

? Make costs transparent so that consumers understand what health-care treatments cost. How many people know the total cost of their last doctor's visit and how that total breaks down? What other goods or services do we buy without knowing how much they will cost us?

? Enact Medicare reform. We need to face up to the actuarial fact that Medicare is heading towards bankruptcy and enact reforms that create greater patient empowerment, choice and responsibility.

? Finally, revise tax forms to make it easier for individuals to make a voluntary, tax-deductible donation to help the millions of people who have no insurance and aren't covered by Medicare, Medicaid or the State Children's Health Insurance Program.




Many promoters of health-care reform believe that people have an intrinsic ethical right to health care?to equal access to doctors, medicines and hospitals. While all of us empathize with those who are sick, how can we say that all people have more of an intrinsic right to health care than they have to food or shelter?

Health care is a service that we all need, but just like food and shelter it is best provided through voluntary and mutually beneficial market exchanges. A careful reading of both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution will not reveal any intrinsic right to health care, food or shelter. That's because there isn't any. This "right" has never existed in America.
John Mackey: The Whole Foods Alternative to ObamaCare - WSJ.com
 

timesjoke

Active Members
But none of those things give Government more control so none of the Liberals and only about half of the Republicans would support them. The Republicans had the power at one time and never passed tort reform, that was my biggest dissapointment from them.

America has already slipped and slid way down the socialist path and I fear that we will step the rest of the way down that path sooner or later. Sure, I want to delay it as long as possible, but eact time we turn around, we are fighting off more and more attempts to eliminate free enterprise and give the Government more power over our lives.

Right now they already own the banking industry, and a big part of the domestic car production in America, will they get all or part of the healthcare? They certainly want it.

When a government takes over a people?s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs. ~ Maxwell Anderson

Legal plunder can be committed in an infinite number of ways; hence, there are an infinite number of plans for organizing it: tariffs, protection, bonuses, subsidies, incentives, the progressive income tax, free education, the right to employment, the right to profit, the right to wages, the right to relief, the right to the tools of production, interest free credit, etc., etc. And it the aggregate of all these plans, in respect to what they have in common, legal plunder, that goes under the name of socialism. ~ Frederic Bastiat

 

RoyalOrleans

New member
I like John Mackey's plan.

In fact, I love the plan.

Unfortuntaely, Mackey is now a hatemongerer, a fearmongerer, a bigot, a racist, a rightwing extremist, and Irish.

Welcome to the club.

 

hugo

New member
Two more suggestions, repeal the Kefauver Amendment to the FDA and eliminate licensing requiremnets for practicing medicine.
 

timesjoke

Active Members
I believe this just goes to prove that there are a lot of alternative ideas out there, unlike what Bender claims, but the Libs only want ideas that give the Government (them) more power over people's lives.
 

eddo

New member
I believe this just goes to prove that there are a lot of alternative ideas out there, unlike what Bender claims, but the Libs only want ideas that give the Government (them) more power over people's lives.
I don't think that is what bender claims.

What I have seen him say is that the Repub's haven't offered up any different ideas, and instead just bash all things Obama- whether they deserve bashing or not.

This is the first put together idea that I have seen that holds some merit- and it wasn't by a republican.

 

RoyalOrleans

New member
Well now the unions have gotten involved. The CtW Investment Group, a part of the Change to Win federation of unions that advocates on behalf of workers' investments in pension funds, is calling for Mackey's resignation. The union says that Mackey is undermining President Obama's healthcare reform.

CtW Investment Group's Executive Director Bill Patterson says, "Mr. Mackey attempted to capitalize on the brand reputation of Whole Foods to champion his personal political views, but has instead deeply offended a key segment of Whole Foods consumer base." Oh my ***! NO! Tell me it's not true! Someone has been OFFENDED!

In the meantime, the United Food and Commercial Workers Union is going to be handing out information to Whole Foods shoppers about healthcare reform. Maybe they will hire some homeless people to handout the flyers ... that's always a good way to promote your cause.

There's a Whole Foods down the road a piece from my shop. Might have to stop in and throw a little support their way.

 

timesjoke

Active Members
I don't think that is what bender claims.
What I have seen him say is that the Repub's haven't offered up any different ideas, and instead just bash all things Obama- whether they deserve bashing or not.

This is the first put together idea that I have seen that holds some merit- and it wasn't by a republican.
The Republicans and other conservative groups have been offering these ideas and others like them for years eddo, this is not "NEW" just packaged differently. Bender and I guess now you just refuse to hear or see what has been offered all along as alternative ideas.

Bender's point is to ignore all other ideas as if they do not exist if they do not include a Government takeover.

 

wez

New member
Bender's point is to ignore all other ideas as if they do not exist if they do not include a Government takeover.
It's patience that allows people like us to tolerate a person such as yourself ~ Abe Froman

 

 




 

phreakwars

New member
The Republicans and other conservative groups have been offering these ideas and others like them for years eddo, this is not "NEW" just packaged differently. Bender and I guess now you just refuse to hear or see what has been offered all along as alternative ideas.

Bender's point is to ignore all other ideas as if they do not exist if they do not include a Government takeover.
The Republicans had 8 years to enact all these "GREAT IDEAS" when Bush was in office. They had all that time, and a majority in Congress to get it done. Why didn't they do a **** thing then? Hind site is 20/20 eh?
Years later, after the Democrats get something going on.... THEN they have all these great plans...

YA BULLSHlT.

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timesjoke

Active Members
The Republicans had 8 years to enact all these "GREAT IDEAS" when Bush was in office. They had all that time, and a majority in Congress to get it done. Why didn't they do a **** thing then? Hind site is 20/20 eh?.

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I have already said my biggest dissapointment over the few years they had a majority (not 8 years but still...) was not passing tort reform. In many ways a lot of Republicans stopped being conservatives and transformed into partial liberals....but not all the way to socialists.

I agree to a degree with your point Bender, but not putting those other things into motion then is not a good excuse to bypass those ideas now and go all the way to Government takeover of healthcare now. There are ways to improve our problems without spending more money we don't have.

They just said the budget is worse then Obama had predicted buy another 2 trillion dollars..........2 trillion, that is not just an addition error, that is a massive mistake and we are being asked to put this halfbaked legislation into action based on this same level of math?

I am sorry, the pricetag is too high and the benefits way, way too low for any thinking America to approve of such trash legislation that not one of our elected officials have even read yet.

Anyone who actually reads all the different things Democrats want to impose will be chilled if their not a socialist.

The IRS is mandated to release any and all information requested by healthcare workers from federal or state levels under the intention of assessing "affordability credits."

Another interesting element? The IRS must release all requested information to the social security administration workers for the purpose of assessing drug subsidy qualifications even if you never applied for the assistance.

Just these two things alone puts a lot of private and personal information out there at the finger tips of the lowest Government workers to use as they see fit. Could a worker needing some extra income figure out a way to see that information? Yep. And maybe that is the point, they want this kind of information to be available to everyone else anyway.

 

phreakwars

New member
Well, I'm not gonna get into yet another long drawn out debate over health care, so I'll bottom line this.

Republicans could have acted, they didn't, their loss. Now it's the Democrats turn. No point in ******** about ideas you think are horrible that come from them. Your disappointed in the Republicans for not doing so? So aren't 47 million other Americans. It's one of the reasons they were voted out of congress and the Whitehouse.

One can't ***** and complain about losing the girl of their dreams if they never made the effort to introduce themselves to that girl. And you can't talk about how life would have been different had you been the one. You just have to sit back and take it.

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ImWithStupid

New member
Well, I'm not gonna get into yet another long drawn out debate over health care, so I'll bottom line this.
Republicans could have acted, they didn't, their loss. Now it's the Democrats turn. No point in ******** about ideas you think are horrible that come from them. Your disappointed in the Republicans for not doing so? So aren't 47 million other Americans. It's one of the reasons they were voted out of congress and the Whitehouse.

One can't ***** and complain about losing the girl of their dreams if they never made the effort to introduce themselves to that girl. And you can't talk about how life would have been different had you been the one. You just have to sit back and take it.

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Yea, because since the past 8 years were concerned with shoring up the nations security that was decimated by the Clinton administration and that it didn't allow for the progress that was wanted, we should just bend over and take the Dem plan to let the government take over 20% of the US economy, even if there is a better plan out there..

There shouldn't be any other ideas introduced, just as the draconian rules that the Dems and Nancy Pelosi put in place to replace the fair rules in Congress that were put in place when the Repubs took over that allowed for the opposition to introduce legislation, because they didn't want to be the ******** the Dems were for the past three decades of control and wanted to allow for fair debate, but would no longer let that happen.

Gee, I wonder why there isn't a Repub plan introduced, oh yea, the ****** Dems won't let them.

Now this CEO brings up a viable plan to have health care reform and the ****** left wing special interests immediately try to boycott Whole Foods for it.

The Dems are, and always have been, a bunch of ******* who can't stand, or stand up to opposing ideas, because head to head, their ideas are flawed and can't hold up on their own merits, so they have to go to guerilla tactics and strong arm measures using Union Army's who only care about dues and power, not the people.

 

phreakwars

New member
I have a solution for that. Simply regulate what insurance companies charge and how much they can profit. Force them to make it affordable to everyone, and problem solved. Then the insurance companies can fight over getting customers for their crappy service and the government doesn't need to do any more.

I mean think about it, the only reason anybody is toying with the notion of .gov interfering in health care, is because insurance companies do such a crappy job of providing it in the first place. If everyone could afford it and get the coverage they need, then you would have no need for government to do a **** thing except provide subsidies to the poor.

If Republicans were REALLY REALLY concerned about not getting .gov involved in our health care, then they would be on these insurance companies ***** to do their jobs and care for the people they charge the premiums to. Not coming up with these BULLSHlT farfetched ideas of giving insurance companies more control or saying they should be able to sell across state lines. That's just another way for them to find a way of ******** people over more.

The Whole Foods boycott has to do with Mackey saying "Americans do not have an intrinsic right to healthcare"

Mr Mackey began his article with a quote from Margaret Thatcher and went on to add that Americans do not have an intrinsic right to healthcare - an idea strongly at odds with the views of a large proportion of Whole Foods' customer base.
BBC NEWS | Business | Customers call for Whole Foods boycott

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timesjoke

Active Members
The problem is Bender, most people are not upset at their insurance provider.

Every study, every poll shows that almost all Americans are happy with their healthcare. That is why Obama has had to completely change his wording away from healthcare reform to insurance reform, the people were not responding.

The same is true for the reform message as well, the people on the whole get great medical care so when Obama says he wants to force all Americans to accept a massive increase in Government spending to change something they are happy about, it gets their attention and they speak out.

That is why Obama's popularity rating is dropping so low in general, and that is why the overall support for this medical care power grap is loosing support so fast, finally people see that Obama is not telling the truth about what the many bills have inside them.

By the way, the real number of uninsured is around 15 million, not 47, they count illegals and people on medicare or other programs in their 47 million number, and you don't need to hand 20% of our economy over to the Federal Government to provide 15 million people some access to medical care.

I believe the final straw that broke the liberals/socialists back on this issue was calling real concerned Americans fake protestors, unamerican, and angry mobs who were expressing fake concerns.

That ****** a lot of people off, in one case a friend of mine's parents went to one of the meetings here in Florida and again the protestors were called ugly names by this Obama administration. Before his parents were involved he really never placed an identity on the blanket accusations of Obama against the protestors but after his parents went to their first protest suddenly he saw the reality of just how bad and corrupt Obama really is.

This man is and has always been a liberal supporter, and he just told me that he is changing to an independant and does not support Obamacare anymore.

They insulted his parents............

Stupid move Obama.

 

phreakwars

New member
Insurance reform IS the real agenda, always has been. I can agree that people are happy with the health care they receive. It's not the Dr.'s fault some greedy insurance company doesn't let someone get treatment for something. Nobody REALLY wants health care reform, they want insurance reform. I know that's what I want. I have no complaints about my Dr.

Obama changing it to insurance reform over health care reform is doing the smartest thing possible IMO.

As for your very boring claim about Obama's approval, almost all Presidents go through a period where their approval ratings slip just to see an increase later on.

Myself I wouldn't call real concerned Americans fake protesters, technically, they are IGNORANT protesters.

As for the actual number being 15 million... have any data from freerepublic.com to back that up?

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