So before the Republicans make any new tax promises, it might help if they first told voters how the

S

Sid9

Guest
December 14, 2007

On the Economy
The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
By TOM REDBURN
For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to cut
taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican campaign
for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly remember that
George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a modest tax
increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed never to make
that mistake again.

But there is a crucial twist to the campaign this time around. All of the
Republican candidates have pledged to extend President Bush's tax cuts from
the early 1990s beyond their scheduled expiration in 2010. That promise,
however, does not carry the same weight as in the past.

That's because, rather than delivering any additional benefit that voters
can actually take to the bank, carrying out such a pledge would do nothing
more than maintain the status quo. Nobody's taxes would be cut further; they
would at best stay the same. There's not as much political payoff in that.

And preventing anybody from being worse off is going to be incredibly
costly. Indeed, it requires running faster and faster just to stay in the
same place. A new report from the Congressional Budget Office on the
long-term budget outlook, delivered to Congress on Thursday, makes clear the
depth of the fiscal hole the next president will inherit from President
Bush.

Simply to extend the Bush tax cuts indefinitely into the future and, as both
Republicans and Democrats have vowed, prevent the alternative minimum tax
from imposing an increasingly heavy burden on tens of millions of
middle-class and upper middle-class taxpayers would cost the government,
over the next decade, roughly $2.5 trillion in revenues now expected under
current law. And that's just the beginning.

Even without taking on any additional tasks, merely meeting the government's
existing obligations - mostly to pay for the military and to keep up with
the health care and retirement needs of the elderly - would send the budget
deficit soaring, pushing overall federal debt held by the public from under
50 percent of the size of the nation's economy today to over 300 percent by
2050.

"The combination of roughly constant revenues and significantly rising
expenditures would quickly create an unstable fiscal situation," the budget
office report notes alarmingly, but in its characteristically dry and
understated manner.

How would the Republican candidates deal with this problem? Most say they
would try to hold down spending - and cut taxes even more.

Indeed, without providing many specifics about his proposed spending cuts,
Rudolph W. Giuliani, in a recent op-ed article in The Wall Street Journal,
wrote that he was "committed to making the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent,
while aiming at still-lower marginal rates. We'll give the death tax the
death penalty, index the Alternative Minimum Tax for inflation as a step
toward eliminating it entirely, expand tax-free savings accounts, and expand
health-care choice through tax reform. We also need to reduce the corporate
tax rate."

Fred D. Thompson recently unveiled his own tax proposal, which would not
only match the Giuliani promises, but would also allow taxpayers to choose
between paying under the current system or opting for a "flat tax" with
lower rates that would eliminate nearly all deductions. The simplified tax
system would have just two rates: 10 percent and 25 percent.

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center analyzed Mr. Thompson's overall proposal
and found that it would "represent, by far, the largest tax cut in history -
much larger than the tax cuts enacted in 2001 or 1981. Over 10 years,
individual income and estate taxes would fall by about $6 trillion to $7
trillion - or as much as 20 percent of overall revenues - before allowing
for any behavioral responses."

Mr. Thompson predicted that the tax cut would largely pay for itself by
stimulating economic growth and discouraging tax avoidance. If not, he
suggested, any additional savings could be achieved by limiting Social
Security benefits.

But the Tax Policy Center report found that any improvements to the economy
from lower tax rates would be modest. As a result, the Treasury would
recover no more than about $1 trillion over the decade, resulting in an
overall revenue loss of $5 trillion to $6 trillion. The tax cuts would fall
far short of paying for themselves.

And nearly all the money, like the earlier rounds of tax cuts this decade,
would flow to those at the top of the income ladder.

Meanwhile, Mike Huckabee has proposed yet a third alternative, endorsing the
so-called "fair tax," which vows to replace all federal revenues - income
taxes, payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare, estate taxes, etc. -
with a national sales tax on everything except education.

Proponents say that a sales tax rate of 23 percent on just about all goods
and services would generate the same revenues as the current system, but tax
experts like Bruce Bartlett, a former Treasury official under President
Ronald Reagan, say that it would effectively mean raising the cost of
everything people buy by at least 30 percent.

And even if such a tax could be practically instituted, it would still not
close the fiscal gap that is about to explode over the next few years.

"Campaigns bring out the Santa Claus in politicians," said Leonard Burman,
director of the Tax Policy Center, which is associated with the Brookings
Institution and the Urban Institute. "But the numbers just don't add up. By
promising more tax cuts than we can afford, they are really misrepresenting
the choices the nation faces."

Democrats certainly have their own problems balancing their spending
proposals - particularly for health care - with the revenues available to
pay for them, but the Republican candidates, by vowing to extend President
Bush's tax cuts, have left themselves with a far bigger fiscal gap to fill.

So before the Republicans make any new tax promises, it might help if they
first told voters how they plan to pay for the old ones.
 
In article <EY%8j.31093$rc2.24645@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
"Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> December 14, 2007
>
> On the Economy
> The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
> By TOM REDBURN
> For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to cut
> taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican campaign
> for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly remember that
> George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a modest tax
> increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed never to make
> that mistake again.



Amen to that. Let's hope they never make that mistake again.
 
On Dec 15, 8:19 pm, "Sid9" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> December 14, 2007
>
> On the Economy
> The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
> By TOM REDBURN
> For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to cut
> taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican campaign
> for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly remember that
> George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a modest tax
> increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed never to make
> that mistake again.
>
> But there is a crucial twist to the campaign this time around. All of the
> Republican candidates have pledged to extend President Bush's tax cuts from
> the early 1990s beyond their scheduled expiration in 2010. That promise,
> however, does not carry the same weight as in the past.
>
> That's because, rather than delivering any additional benefit that voters
> can actually take to the bank, carrying out such a pledge would do nothing
> more than maintain the status quo. Nobody's taxes would be cut further; they
> would at best stay the same. There's not as much political payoff in that.
>
> And preventing anybody from being worse off is going to be incredibly
> costly. Indeed, it requires running faster and faster just to stay in the
> same place. A new report from the Congressional Budget Office on the
> long-term budget outlook, delivered to Congress on Thursday, makes clear the
> depth of the fiscal hole the next president will inherit from President
> Bush.
>
> Simply to extend the Bush tax cuts indefinitely into the future and, as both
> Republicans and Democrats have vowed, prevent the alternative minimum tax
> from imposing an increasingly heavy burden on tens of millions of
> middle-class and upper middle-class taxpayers would cost the government,
> over the next decade, roughly $2.5 trillion in revenues now expected under
> current law. And that's just the beginning.
>
> Even without taking on any additional tasks, merely meeting the government's
> existing obligations - mostly to pay for the military and to keep up with
> the health care and retirement needs of the elderly - would send the budget
> deficit soaring, pushing overall federal debt held by the public from under
> 50 percent of the size of the nation's economy today to over 300 percent by
> 2050.
>
> "The combination of roughly constant revenues and significantly rising
> expenditures would quickly create an unstable fiscal situation," the budget
> office report notes alarmingly, but in its characteristically dry and
> understated manner.
>
> How would the Republican candidates deal with this problem? Most say they
> would try to hold down spending - and cut taxes even more.
>
> Indeed, without providing many specifics about his proposed spending cuts,
> Rudolph W. Giuliani, in a recent op-ed article in The Wall Street Journal,
> wrote that he was "committed to making the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent,
> while aiming at still-lower marginal rates. We'll give the death tax the
> death penalty, index the Alternative Minimum Tax for inflation as a step
> toward eliminating it entirely, expand tax-free savings accounts, and expand
> health-care choice through tax reform. We also need to reduce the corporate
> tax rate."
>
> Fred D. Thompson recently unveiled his own tax proposal, which would not
> only match the Giuliani promises, but would also allow taxpayers to choose
> between paying under the current system or opting for a "flat tax" with
> lower rates that would eliminate nearly all deductions. The simplified tax
> system would have just two rates: 10 percent and 25 percent.
>
> The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center analyzed Mr. Thompson's overall proposal
> and found that it would "represent, by far, the largest tax cut in history -
> much larger than the tax cuts enacted in 2001 or 1981. Over 10 years,
> individual income and estate taxes would fall by about $6 trillion to $7
> trillion - or as much as 20 percent of overall revenues - before allowing
> for any behavioral responses."
>
> Mr. Thompson predicted that the tax cut would largely pay for itself by
> stimulating economic growth and discouraging tax avoidance. If not, he
> suggested, any additional savings could be achieved by limiting Social
> Security benefits.
>
> But the Tax Policy Center report found that any improvements to the economy
> from lower tax rates would be modest. As a result, the Treasury would
> recover no more than about $1 trillion over the decade, resulting in an
> overall revenue loss of $5 trillion to $6 trillion. The tax cuts would fall
> far short of paying for themselves.
>
> And nearly all the money, like the earlier rounds of tax cuts this decade,
> would flow to those at the top of the income ladder.
>
> Meanwhile, Mike Huckabee has proposed yet a third alternative, endorsing the
> so-called "fair tax," which vows to replace all federal revenues - income
> taxes, payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare, estate taxes, etc. -
> with a national sales tax on everything except education.
>
> Proponents say that a sales tax rate of 23 percent on just about all goods
> and services would generate the same revenues as the current system, but tax
> experts like Bruce Bartlett, a former Treasury official under President
> Ronald Reagan, say that it would effectively mean raising the cost of
> everything people buy by at least 30 percent.
>
> And even if such a tax could be practically instituted, it would still not
> close the fiscal gap that is about to explode over the next few years.
>
> "Campaigns bring out the Santa Claus in politicians," said Leonard Burman,
> director of the Tax Policy Center, which is associated with the Brookings
> Institution and the Urban Institute. "But the numbers just don't add up. By
> promising more tax cuts than we can afford, they are really misrepresenting
> the choices the nation faces."
>
> Democrats certainly have their own problems balancing their spending
> proposals - particularly for health care - with the revenues available to
> pay for them, but the Republican candidates, by vowing to extend President
> Bush's tax cuts, have left themselves with a far bigger fiscal gap to fill.
>
> So before the Republicans make any new tax promises, it might help if they
> first told voters how they plan to pay for the old ones.


When you posted this did you have any idea that the Bush tax cuts
resulted in INCREASED tax receipts?

The national debt has reached the size it has because Bush, Democrats
and Republicans have spent the increased revenues and more like
drunken sailors.

The article you quote notes that more tax cuts would indeed produce
MORE tax receipts. But not enough to meet the demands of the pigs in
Congress.

So the problem would not be solved by increasing taxes, because that
would REDUCE tax receipts while the drunken sailors continue to spend
your money at record rates.
 
Harold Burton wrote:

> In article <EY%8j.31093$rc2.24645@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
> "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>>December 14, 2007
>>
>>On the Economy
>>The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>>By TOM REDBURN
>>For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to cut
>>taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican campaign
>>for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly remember that
>>George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a modest tax
>>increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed never to make
>>that mistake again.

>
>
>
> Amen to that. Let's hope they never make that mistake again.


Yes. Let's destroy the American infrastructure and live on credit card
financing. It should be fun to live in the US and be owned by other
countries as we Don Quixote ourselves in Iraq.

Insanity is being a Republican.
 
In article <13m93rfkvcb3v5d@corp.supernews.com>,
Salad <oil@vinegar.com> wrote:

> Harold Burton wrote:
>
> > In article <EY%8j.31093$rc2.24645@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
> > "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>December 14, 2007
> >>
> >>On the Economy
> >>The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
> >>By TOM REDBURN
> >>For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to cut
> >>taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican campaign
> >>for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly remember that
> >>George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a modest tax
> >>increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed never to make
> >>that mistake again.

> >
> >
> >
> > Amen to that. Let's hope they never make that mistake again.

>
> Yes. Let's destroy the American infrastructure and live on credit card
> financing. It should be fun to live in the US and be owned by other
> countries as we Don Quixote ourselves in Iraq.



Doesn't follow


> Insanity is being...



....a leftard spouting non sequiturs.
 
Kelley Eidem wrote:
> On Dec 15, 8:19 pm, "Sid9" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> December 14, 2007
>>
>> On the Economy
>> The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>> By TOM REDBURN
>> For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to cut
>> taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican campaign
>> for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly remember that
>> George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a modest tax
>> increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed never to make
>> that mistake again.
>>
>> But there is a crucial twist to the campaign this time around. All of the
>> Republican candidates have pledged to extend President Bush's tax cuts from
>> the early 1990s beyond their scheduled expiration in 2010. That promise,
>> however, does not carry the same weight as in the past.
>>
>> That's because, rather than delivering any additional benefit that voters
>> can actually take to the bank, carrying out such a pledge would do nothing
>> more than maintain the status quo. Nobody's taxes would be cut further; they
>> would at best stay the same. There's not as much political payoff in that.
>>
>> And preventing anybody from being worse off is going to be incredibly
>> costly. Indeed, it requires running faster and faster just to stay in the
>> same place. A new report from the Congressional Budget Office on the
>> long-term budget outlook, delivered to Congress on Thursday, makes clear the
>> depth of the fiscal hole the next president will inherit from President
>> Bush.
>>
>> Simply to extend the Bush tax cuts indefinitely into the future and, as both
>> Republicans and Democrats have vowed, prevent the alternative minimum tax
>> from imposing an increasingly heavy burden on tens of millions of
>> middle-class and upper middle-class taxpayers would cost the government,
>> over the next decade, roughly $2.5 trillion in revenues now expected under
>> current law. And that's just the beginning.
>>
>> Even without taking on any additional tasks, merely meeting the government's
>> existing obligations - mostly to pay for the military and to keep up with
>> the health care and retirement needs of the elderly - would send the budget
>> deficit soaring, pushing overall federal debt held by the public from under
>> 50 percent of the size of the nation's economy today to over 300 percent by
>> 2050.
>>
>> "The combination of roughly constant revenues and significantly rising
>> expenditures would quickly create an unstable fiscal situation," the budget
>> office report notes alarmingly, but in its characteristically dry and
>> understated manner.
>>
>> How would the Republican candidates deal with this problem? Most say they
>> would try to hold down spending - and cut taxes even more.
>>
>> Indeed, without providing many specifics about his proposed spending cuts,
>> Rudolph W. Giuliani, in a recent op-ed article in The Wall Street Journal,
>> wrote that he was "committed to making the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent,
>> while aiming at still-lower marginal rates. We'll give the death tax the
>> death penalty, index the Alternative Minimum Tax for inflation as a step
>> toward eliminating it entirely, expand tax-free savings accounts, and expand
>> health-care choice through tax reform. We also need to reduce the corporate
>> tax rate."
>>
>> Fred D. Thompson recently unveiled his own tax proposal, which would not
>> only match the Giuliani promises, but would also allow taxpayers to choose
>> between paying under the current system or opting for a "flat tax" with
>> lower rates that would eliminate nearly all deductions. The simplified tax
>> system would have just two rates: 10 percent and 25 percent.
>>
>> The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center analyzed Mr. Thompson's overall proposal
>> and found that it would "represent, by far, the largest tax cut in history -
>> much larger than the tax cuts enacted in 2001 or 1981. Over 10 years,
>> individual income and estate taxes would fall by about $6 trillion to $7
>> trillion - or as much as 20 percent of overall revenues - before allowing
>> for any behavioral responses."
>>
>> Mr. Thompson predicted that the tax cut would largely pay for itself by
>> stimulating economic growth and discouraging tax avoidance. If not, he
>> suggested, any additional savings could be achieved by limiting Social
>> Security benefits.
>>
>> But the Tax Policy Center report found that any improvements to the economy
>> from lower tax rates would be modest. As a result, the Treasury would
>> recover no more than about $1 trillion over the decade, resulting in an
>> overall revenue loss of $5 trillion to $6 trillion. The tax cuts would fall
>> far short of paying for themselves.
>>
>> And nearly all the money, like the earlier rounds of tax cuts this decade,
>> would flow to those at the top of the income ladder.
>>
>> Meanwhile, Mike Huckabee has proposed yet a third alternative, endorsing the
>> so-called "fair tax," which vows to replace all federal revenues - income
>> taxes, payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare, estate taxes, etc. -
>> with a national sales tax on everything except education.
>>
>> Proponents say that a sales tax rate of 23 percent on just about all goods
>> and services would generate the same revenues as the current system, but tax
>> experts like Bruce Bartlett, a former Treasury official under President
>> Ronald Reagan, say that it would effectively mean raising the cost of
>> everything people buy by at least 30 percent.
>>
>> And even if such a tax could be practically instituted, it would still not
>> close the fiscal gap that is about to explode over the next few years.
>>
>> "Campaigns bring out the Santa Claus in politicians," said Leonard Burman,
>> director of the Tax Policy Center, which is associated with the Brookings
>> Institution and the Urban Institute. "But the numbers just don't add up. By
>> promising more tax cuts than we can afford, they are really misrepresenting
>> the choices the nation faces."
>>
>> Democrats certainly have their own problems balancing their spending
>> proposals - particularly for health care - with the revenues available to
>> pay for them, but the Republican candidates, by vowing to extend President
>> Bush's tax cuts, have left themselves with a far bigger fiscal gap to fill.
>>
>> So before the Republicans make any new tax promises, it might help if they
>> first told voters how they plan to pay for the old ones.
>>

>
> When you posted this did you have any idea that the Bush tax cuts
> resulted in INCREASED tax receipts?
>


LOL , you right wingers are hilariuos. Of course tax receipts will
increase, that would happen in any year the
economy expanded and the population increased. Tax receipts increase in
any year there isn't a recession
> The national debt has reached the size it has because Bush, Democrats
> and Republicans have spent the increased revenues and more like
> drunken sailors.
>


You can't blame this one on the Democrats, the vast majority of the debt
was forced through both houses by Republican
majorities, Bush has vetoed less spending bills than any president on
record.
> The article you quote notes that more tax cuts would indeed produce
> MORE tax receipts. But not enough to meet the demands of the pigs in
> Congress.
>
> So the problem would not be solved by increasing taxes, because that
> would REDUCE tax receipts while the drunken sailors continue to spend
> your money at record rates.
>


Bullshit. Clinton raised taxes and balanced the budget, the Canadians
did the same thing, balanced the budget
in four years and now have the best debt to GDP in the G8.
 
In article <fk2473$74i$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
wrote:

> Of course tax receipts will increase, that would happen in
> any year the economy expanded and the population increased.
> Tax receipts increase in any year there isn't a recession...



i.e. not during the DemocRAT Carter years.
 
Kelley Eidem <awthrawthr@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:868a7dbc-279b-41fc-94bf-0388917c7d2e@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:

> On Dec 15, 8:19 pm, "Sid9" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> December 14, 2007
>>
>> On the Economy
>> The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>> By TOM REDBURN
>> For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to
>> cut taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican
>> campaign for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly
>> remember that George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a
>> modest tax increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have
>> vowed never to make that mistake again.
>>
>> But there is a crucial twist to the campaign this time around. All of
>> the Republican candidates have pledged to extend President Bush's tax
>> cuts from the early 1990s beyond their scheduled expiration in 2010.
>> That promise, however, does not carry the same weight as in the past.
>>
>> That's because, rather than delivering any additional benefit that
>> voters can actually take to the bank, carrying out such a pledge would
>> do nothing more than maintain the status quo. Nobody's taxes would be
>> cut further; they would at best stay the same. There's not as much
>> political payoff in that.
>>
>> And preventing anybody from being worse off is going to be incredibly
>> costly. Indeed, it requires running faster and faster just to stay in
>> the same place. A new report from the Congressional Budget Office on
>> the long-term budget outlook, delivered to Congress on Thursday, makes
>> clear the depth of the fiscal hole the next president will inherit from
>> President Bush.
>>
>> Simply to extend the Bush tax cuts indefinitely into the future and, as
>> both Republicans and Democrats have vowed, prevent the alternative
>> minimum tax from imposing an increasingly heavy burden on tens of
>> millions of middle-class and upper middle-class taxpayers would cost
>> the government, over the next decade, roughly $2.5 trillion in revenues
>> now expected under current law. And that's just the beginning.
>>
>> Even without taking on any additional tasks, merely meeting the
>> government's existing obligations - mostly to pay for the military and
>> to keep up with the health care and retirement needs of the elderly -
>> would send the budget deficit soaring, pushing overall federal debt
>> held by the public from under 50 percent of the size of the nation's
>> economy today to over 300 percent by 2050.
>>
>> "The combination of roughly constant revenues and significantly rising
>> expenditures would quickly create an unstable fiscal situation," the
>> budget office report notes alarmingly, but in its characteristically
>> dry and understated manner.
>>
>> How would the Republican candidates deal with this problem? Most say
>> they would try to hold down spending - and cut taxes even more.
>>
>> Indeed, without providing many specifics about his proposed spending
>> cuts, Rudolph W. Giuliani, in a recent op-ed article in The Wall Street
>> Journal, wrote that he was "committed to making the 2001 and 2003 tax
>> cuts permanent, while aiming at still-lower marginal rates. We'll give
>> the death tax the death penalty, index the Alternative Minimum Tax for
>> inflation as a step toward eliminating it entirely, expand tax-free
>> savings accounts, and expand health-care choice through tax reform. We
>> also need to reduce the corporate tax rate."
>>
>> Fred D. Thompson recently unveiled his own tax proposal, which would
>> not only match the Giuliani promises, but would also allow taxpayers to
>> choose between paying under the current system or opting for a "flat
>> tax" with lower rates that would eliminate nearly all deductions. The
>> simplified tax system would have just two rates: 10 percent and 25
>> percent.
>>
>> The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center analyzed Mr. Thompson's overall
>> proposal and found that it would "represent, by far, the largest tax
>> cut in history - much larger than the tax cuts enacted in 2001 or 1981.
>> Over 10 years, individual income and estate taxes would fall by about
>> $6 trillion to $7 trillion - or as much as 20 percent of overall
>> revenues - before allowing for any behavioral responses."
>>
>> Mr. Thompson predicted that the tax cut would largely pay for itself by
>> stimulating economic growth and discouraging tax avoidance. If not, he
>> suggested, any additional savings could be achieved by limiting Social
>> Security benefits.
>>
>> But the Tax Policy Center report found that any improvements to the
>> economy from lower tax rates would be modest. As a result, the Treasury
>> would recover no more than about $1 trillion over the decade, resulting
>> in an overall revenue loss of $5 trillion to $6 trillion. The tax cuts
>> would fall far short of paying for themselves.
>>
>> And nearly all the money, like the earlier rounds of tax cuts this
>> decade, would flow to those at the top of the income ladder.
>>
>> Meanwhile, Mike Huckabee has proposed yet a third alternative,
>> endorsing the so-called "fair tax," which vows to replace all federal
>> revenues - income taxes, payroll taxes for Social Security and
>> Medicare, estate taxes, etc. - with a national sales tax on everything
>> except education.
>>
>> Proponents say that a sales tax rate of 23 percent on just about all
>> goods and services would generate the same revenues as the current
>> system, but tax experts like Bruce Bartlett, a former Treasury official
>> under President Ronald Reagan, say that it would effectively mean
>> raising the cost of everything people buy by at least 30 percent.
>>
>> And even if such a tax could be practically instituted, it would still
>> not close the fiscal gap that is about to explode over the next few
>> years.
>>
>> "Campaigns bring out the Santa Claus in politicians," said Leonard
>> Burman, director of the Tax Policy Center, which is associated with the
>> Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute. "But the numbers just
>> don't add up. By promising more tax cuts than we can afford, they are
>> really misrepresenting the choices the nation faces."
>>
>> Democrats certainly have their own problems balancing their spending
>> proposals - particularly for health care - with the revenues available
>> to pay for them, but the Republican candidates, by vowing to extend
>> President Bush's tax cuts, have left themselves with a far bigger
>> fiscal gap to fill.
>>
>> So before the Republicans make any new tax promises, it might help if
>> they first told voters how they plan to pay for the old ones.

>
> When you posted this did you have any idea that the Bush tax cuts
> resulted in INCREASED tax receipts?
>
> The national debt has reached the size it has because Bush, Democrats
> and Republicans have spent the increased revenues and more like
> drunken sailors.
>


Wars are expensive. Bush should have thought of that
before starting ones he can't finish.


> The article you quote notes that more tax cuts would indeed produce
> MORE tax receipts. But not enough to meet the demands of the pigs in
> Congress.



So by your theory the US could collect even more tax
reciepts by cutting even more taxes. Why not just stop
collecting taxes altogether?



Mitchell Holman

"Our children are ultimately going to have to pay for it"
- GOP Senator Bill Frist, responding to a question about the
massive debts being run up by Pres. Bush and the GOP Congress,
9/23/05
 
Mitchell Holman wrote:
> Kelley Eidem <awthrawthr@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:868a7dbc-279b-41fc-94bf-0388917c7d2e@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Dec 15, 8:19 pm, "Sid9" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> December 14, 2007
>>>
>>> On the Economy
>>> The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>>> By TOM REDBURN
>>> For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980,
>>> promising to cut taxes has been an essential element of every
>>> successful Republican campaign for the presidency. Republican
>>> politicians still vividly remember that George H.W. Bush lost to
>>> Bill Clinton after agreeing to a modest tax increase as part of a
>>> broad budget deal - and most have vowed never to make that mistake
>>> again.
>>>
>>> But there is a crucial twist to the campaign this time around. All
>>> of the Republican candidates have pledged to extend President
>>> Bush's tax cuts from the early 1990s beyond their scheduled
>>> expiration in 2010. That promise, however, does not carry the same
>>> weight as in the past.
>>>
>>> That's because, rather than delivering any additional benefit that
>>> voters can actually take to the bank, carrying out such a pledge
>>> would do nothing more than maintain the status quo. Nobody's taxes
>>> would be cut further; they would at best stay the same. There's not
>>> as much political payoff in that.
>>>
>>> And preventing anybody from being worse off is going to be
>>> incredibly costly. Indeed, it requires running faster and faster
>>> just to stay in the same place. A new report from the Congressional
>>> Budget Office on the long-term budget outlook, delivered to
>>> Congress on Thursday, makes clear the depth of the fiscal hole the
>>> next president will inherit from President Bush.
>>>
>>> Simply to extend the Bush tax cuts indefinitely into the future
>>> and, as both Republicans and Democrats have vowed, prevent the
>>> alternative minimum tax from imposing an increasingly heavy burden
>>> on tens of millions of middle-class and upper middle-class
>>> taxpayers would cost the government, over the next decade, roughly
>>> $2.5 trillion in revenues now expected under current law. And
>>> that's just the beginning.
>>>
>>> Even without taking on any additional tasks, merely meeting the
>>> government's existing obligations - mostly to pay for the military
>>> and to keep up with the health care and retirement needs of the
>>> elderly - would send the budget deficit soaring, pushing overall
>>> federal debt held by the public from under 50 percent of the size
>>> of the nation's economy today to over 300 percent by 2050.
>>>
>>> "The combination of roughly constant revenues and significantly
>>> rising expenditures would quickly create an unstable fiscal
>>> situation," the budget office report notes alarmingly, but in its
>>> characteristically dry and understated manner.
>>>
>>> How would the Republican candidates deal with this problem? Most say
>>> they would try to hold down spending - and cut taxes even more.
>>>
>>> Indeed, without providing many specifics about his proposed spending
>>> cuts, Rudolph W. Giuliani, in a recent op-ed article in The Wall
>>> Street Journal, wrote that he was "committed to making the 2001 and
>>> 2003 tax cuts permanent, while aiming at still-lower marginal
>>> rates. We'll give the death tax the death penalty, index the
>>> Alternative Minimum Tax for inflation as a step toward eliminating
>>> it entirely, expand tax-free savings accounts, and expand
>>> health-care choice through tax reform. We also need to reduce the
>>> corporate tax rate."
>>>
>>> Fred D. Thompson recently unveiled his own tax proposal, which would
>>> not only match the Giuliani promises, but would also allow
>>> taxpayers to choose between paying under the current system or
>>> opting for a "flat tax" with lower rates that would eliminate
>>> nearly all deductions. The simplified tax system would have just
>>> two rates: 10 percent and 25 percent.
>>>
>>> The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center analyzed Mr. Thompson's overall
>>> proposal and found that it would "represent, by far, the largest tax
>>> cut in history - much larger than the tax cuts enacted in 2001 or
>>> 1981. Over 10 years, individual income and estate taxes would fall
>>> by about $6 trillion to $7 trillion - or as much as 20 percent of
>>> overall revenues - before allowing for any behavioral responses."
>>>
>>> Mr. Thompson predicted that the tax cut would largely pay for
>>> itself by stimulating economic growth and discouraging tax
>>> avoidance. If not, he suggested, any additional savings could be
>>> achieved by limiting Social Security benefits.
>>>
>>> But the Tax Policy Center report found that any improvements to the
>>> economy from lower tax rates would be modest. As a result, the
>>> Treasury would recover no more than about $1 trillion over the
>>> decade, resulting in an overall revenue loss of $5 trillion to $6
>>> trillion. The tax cuts would fall far short of paying for
>>> themselves.
>>>
>>> And nearly all the money, like the earlier rounds of tax cuts this
>>> decade, would flow to those at the top of the income ladder.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, Mike Huckabee has proposed yet a third alternative,
>>> endorsing the so-called "fair tax," which vows to replace all
>>> federal revenues - income taxes, payroll taxes for Social Security
>>> and Medicare, estate taxes, etc. - with a national sales tax on
>>> everything except education.
>>>
>>> Proponents say that a sales tax rate of 23 percent on just about all
>>> goods and services would generate the same revenues as the current
>>> system, but tax experts like Bruce Bartlett, a former Treasury
>>> official under President Ronald Reagan, say that it would
>>> effectively mean raising the cost of everything people buy by at
>>> least 30 percent.
>>>
>>> And even if such a tax could be practically instituted, it would
>>> still not close the fiscal gap that is about to explode over the
>>> next few years.
>>>
>>> "Campaigns bring out the Santa Claus in politicians," said Leonard
>>> Burman, director of the Tax Policy Center, which is associated with
>>> the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute. "But the numbers
>>> just don't add up. By promising more tax cuts than we can afford,
>>> they are really misrepresenting the choices the nation faces."
>>>
>>> Democrats certainly have their own problems balancing their spending
>>> proposals - particularly for health care - with the revenues
>>> available to pay for them, but the Republican candidates, by vowing
>>> to extend President Bush's tax cuts, have left themselves with a
>>> far bigger fiscal gap to fill.
>>>
>>> So before the Republicans make any new tax promises, it might help
>>> if they first told voters how they plan to pay for the old ones.

>>
>> When you posted this did you have any idea that the Bush tax cuts
>> resulted in INCREASED tax receipts?


The Reagan, Bush,Sr, jr's
Republican budget
management caused
rapid major increases
in the national debt.

Any increase in revenue
was greatly offset by large
increases in deficit spending.

The Republicans had renamed
Keynesian economics.

Our government's finances
were handled incompetently
by Republicans.

Now we face huge increases
in interest expenses and a
world wide precipitous
decline in the value of the
dollar.

NEVER has our government
been so poorly managed.






>>
>> The national debt has reached the size it has because Bush, Democrats
>> and Republicans have spent the increased revenues and more like
>> drunken sailors.
>>

>
> Wars are expensive. Bush should have thought of that
> before starting ones he can't finish.
>
>
>> The article you quote notes that more tax cuts would indeed produce
>> MORE tax receipts. But not enough to meet the demands of the pigs in
>> Congress.

>
>
> So by your theory the US could collect even more tax
> reciepts by cutting even more taxes. Why not just stop
> collecting taxes altogether?
>
>
>
> Mitchell Holman
>
> "Our children are ultimately going to have to pay for it"
> - GOP Senator Bill Frist, responding to a question about the
> massive debts being run up by Pres. Bush and the GOP Congress,
> 9/23/05
 
Harold Burton wrote:
> In article <13m93rfkvcb3v5d@corp.supernews.com>,
> Salad <oil@vinegar.com> wrote:
>
>> Harold Burton wrote:
>>
>>> In article <EY%8j.31093$rc2.24645@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
>>> "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> December 14, 2007
>>>>
>>>> On the Economy
>>>> The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>>>> By TOM REDBURN
>>>> For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980,
>>>> promising to cut taxes has been an essential element of every
>>>> successful Republican campaign for the presidency. Republican
>>>> politicians still vividly remember that George H.W. Bush lost to
>>>> Bill Clinton after agreeing to a modest tax increase as part of a
>>>> broad budget deal - and most have vowed never to make that mistake
>>>> again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Amen to that. Let's hope they never make that mistake again.

>>
>> Yes. Let's destroy the American infrastructure and live on credit
>> card financing. It should be fun to live in the US and be owned by
>> other countries as we Don Quixote ourselves in Iraq.

>
>
> Doesn't follow
>
>
>> Insanity is being...

>
>
> ...a leftard spouting non sequiturs.



Insanity is being a Republican .
 
Harold Burton wrote:
> In article <fk2473$74i$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Of course tax receipts will increase, that would happen in
>> any year the economy expanded and the population increased.
>> Tax receipts increase in any year there isn't a recession...

>
>
> i.e. not during the DemocRAT Carter years.



You lose.....a desperate attempt to change the subject!
 
Harold Burton wrote:
> In article <fk2473$74i$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>> Of course tax receipts will increase, that would happen in
>> any year the economy expanded and the population increased.
>> Tax receipts increase in any year there isn't a recession...
>>

>
>
> i.e. not during the DemocRAT Carter years.
>


Don't know your history very well do you. The American economy and most
of the world was in a deep recession
when Carter was inaugurated in January 1977. Even so from 1977-80
federal revenues averaged 19.5 per cent, well
above the post war average of 17.9%.
 
"Salad" <oil@vinegar.com> wrote in message
news:13m93rfkvcb3v5d@corp.supernews.com...
> Harold Burton wrote:
>
>> In article <EY%8j.31093$rc2.24645@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
>> "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>December 14, 2007
>>>
>>>On the Economy
>>>The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>>>By TOM REDBURN
>>>For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to
>>>cut taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican
>>>campaign for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly
>>>remember that George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a
>>>modest tax increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed
>>>never to make that mistake again.

>>
>>
>>
>> Amen to that. Let's hope they never make that mistake again.

>
> Yes. Let's destroy the American infrastructure and live on credit card
> financing. It should be fun to live in the US and be owned by other
> countries as we Don Quixote ourselves in Iraq.
>
> Insanity is being a Republican.


The economic situation is very little affected by politics, The
money-lenders can bankrupt us all without any political help. Politicians
come in after the damage is done. The money-lenders quietly sold loans,
which would be questionable, but for the rising equity, which caused people
to get loans for "flipping" or taking out the inflated equity as a "home
loan" or getting an ARM, which looked good as long as things were going up.
Then the majors repackaged the loans as equity instruments, and sold them
world-wide. So people invested in guaranteed income packages which, OOPS,
when the real estate market started going down meant that houses were
actually foreclosed on, and the guaranteed income packages were suddenly
worth a lot less, and the write-offs are in the many billions of dollars.

Most of the majors are technically bankrupt. And this will not be over for
many years. Real estate, in the US, will decline for years. And it will be
world-wide.

All of this without politics. In fact I know people in economics, and they
do not know any politician who has a clue as to what the economy is doing.
Also the people who do know are very scared to say what is happening,
because it could exacerbate the issue even more than anything that any
politician could say.

The biggest waste of time that I can think of is watching a so-called
presidential debate.
 
Insanity is being Republican or Democrat,try to be an American for once and
vote American, Ron Paul the cure for the republican versus democrat disease.

"Salad" <oil@vinegar.com> wrote in message
news:13m93rfkvcb3v5d@corp.supernews.com...
> Harold Burton wrote:
>
>> In article <EY%8j.31093$rc2.24645@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
>> "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>December 14, 2007
>>>
>>>On the Economy
>>>The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>>>By TOM REDBURN
>>>For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to
>>>cut taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican
>>>campaign for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly
>>>remember that George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a
>>>modest tax increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed
>>>never to make that mistake again.

>>
>>
>>
>> Amen to that. Let's hope they never make that mistake again.

>
> Yes. Let's destroy the American infrastructure and live on credit card
> financing. It should be fun to live in the US and be owned by other
> countries as we Don Quixote ourselves in Iraq.
>
> Insanity is being a Republican.
 
why ?

we just had 7 years of experience with a conservative imbecile,

we don't need another lying, stealing, cheating, deranged, gutless hillbilly

we need someone with a functioning brain, not one filled with the typical
hillbilly feeble and simple minded bullshit
"MasterChief" <1@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:gp6dnVltZ9VhNPnanZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Insanity is being Republican or Democrat,try to be an American for once
> and vote American, Ron Paul the cure for the republican versus democrat
> disease.
>
> "Salad" <oil@vinegar.com> wrote in message
> news:13m93rfkvcb3v5d@corp.supernews.com...
>> Harold Burton wrote:
>>
>>> In article <EY%8j.31093$rc2.24645@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
>>> "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>December 14, 2007
>>>>
>>>>On the Economy
>>>>The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>>>>By TOM REDBURN
>>>>For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to
>>>>cut taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican
>>>>campaign for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly
>>>>remember that George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a
>>>>modest tax increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed
>>>>never to make that mistake again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Amen to that. Let's hope they never make that mistake again.

>>
>> Yes. Let's destroy the American infrastructure and live on credit card
>> financing. It should be fun to live in the US and be owned by other
>> countries as we Don Quixote ourselves in Iraq.
>>
>> Insanity is being a Republican.

>
>
 
"Lt Gen Al E. Gator" <Al@CrocsBiteaBillyToday.com> wrote in message
news:gA29j.6097$fl7.1322@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> why ?
>
> we just had 7 years of experience with a conservative imbecile,
>
> we don't need another lying, stealing, cheating, deranged, gutless
> hillbilly
>
> we need someone with a functioning brain, not one filled with the typical
> hillbilly feeble and simple minded bullshit


Amen to that.

> "MasterChief" <1@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:gp6dnVltZ9VhNPnanZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Insanity is being Republican or Democrat,try to be an American for once
>> and vote American, Ron Paul the cure for the republican versus democrat
>> disease.
>>
>> "Salad" <oil@vinegar.com> wrote in message
>> news:13m93rfkvcb3v5d@corp.supernews.com...
>>> Harold Burton wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <EY%8j.31093$rc2.24645@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>December 14, 2007
>>>>>
>>>>>On the Economy
>>>>>The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>>>>>By TOM REDBURN
>>>>>For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to
>>>>>cut taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican
>>>>>campaign for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly
>>>>>remember that George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a
>>>>>modest tax increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have
>>>>>vowed never to make that mistake again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amen to that. Let's hope they never make that mistake again.
>>>
>>> Yes. Let's destroy the American infrastructure and live on credit card
>>> financing. It should be fun to live in the US and be owned by other
>>> countries as we Don Quixote ourselves in Iraq.
>>>
>>> Insanity is being a Republican.

>>
>>

>
>
 
Harold Burton wrote:

> In article <13m93rfkvcb3v5d@corp.supernews.com>,
> Salad <oil@vinegar.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Harold Burton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <EY%8j.31093$rc2.24645@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
>>> "Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>December 14, 2007
>>>>
>>>>On the Economy
>>>>The Republicans' Expensive Tax Promise
>>>>By TOM REDBURN
>>>>For decades, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, promising to cut
>>>>taxes has been an essential element of every successful Republican campaign
>>>>for the presidency. Republican politicians still vividly remember that
>>>>George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton after agreeing to a modest tax
>>>>increase as part of a broad budget deal - and most have vowed never to make
>>>>that mistake again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Amen to that. Let's hope they never make that mistake again.

>>
>>Yes. Let's destroy the American infrastructure and live on credit card
>>financing. It should be fun to live in the US and be owned by other
>>countries as we Don Quixote ourselves in Iraq.

>
> Doesn't follow
>


I forgot to say Republican followers are stupid...not the ones at the
top...but you aren't there.

Your mind is a terrible thing to waste, Harold.
 
In article <kz19j.40531$L%6.18913@bignews3.bellsouth.net>,
"Sid9" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Harold Burton wrote:
> > In article <fk2473$74i$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Of course tax receipts will increase, that would happen in
> >> any year the economy expanded and the population increased.
> >> Tax receipts increase in any year there isn't a recession...

> >
> >
> > i.e. not during the DemocRAT Carter years.

>
>
> You lose...


Nope, but try again
 
In article <fk28b5$fqi$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
wrote:

> Harold Burton wrote:
> > In article <fk2473$74i$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Of course tax receipts will increase, that would happen in
> >> any year the economy expanded and the population increased.
> >> Tax receipts increase in any year there isn't a recession...
> >>

> >
> >
> > i.e. not during the DemocRAT Carter years.
> >

>
> Don't know your history very well do you.



Nor do you.


> The American economy and most
> of the world was in a deep recession
> when Carter was inaugurated in January 1977. Even so from 1977-80
> federal revenues averaged 19.5 per cent, well
> above the post war average of 17.9%.



Much like President bush inherited the dot com that Clinton left him,
and unlike Carter he didn't produce double digit inflation AND
unemployment while recovering from it.
 
In article <13ma9r5q0gpmd9a@corp.supernews.com>,
Salad <oil@vinegar.com> wrote:


> I forgot to say Republican followers are stupid...



Which makes them not at all different from DemocRAT followers.
 
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