Surge? Who's surge? 250 dead possibly 500 as Iraqi religious murders continue

August 15, 2007

Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

answer me one of these days?

"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:FsLwi.12933$jy5.2647@trnddc07...

> August 15, 2007

> Death Toll in Iraq Blasts Rises to 250

> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

> Filed at 6:23 p.m. ET

>

> BAGHDAD (AP) -- Rescuers used bare hands and shovels Wednesday to claw

> through clay houses shattered by an onslaught of suicide bombings that

> killed at least 250 and possibly as many as 500 members of an ancient

> religious sect in the deadliest attack of the Iraq war.

>

> The U.S. military blamed al-Qaida in Iraq, and an American commander

> called the assault an ''act of ethnic cleansing.''

>

> The victims of Tuesday night's coordinated attack by four suicide bombers

> were Yazidis, a small Kurdish-speaking sect that has been targeted by

> Muslim extremists who consider its members to be blasphemers.

>

> The blasts in two villages near the Syrian border crumbled buildings,

> trapping entire families beneath mud bricks and other wreckage. Entire

> neighborhoods were flattened.

>

> ''This is an act of ethnic cleansing, if you will, almost genocide,'' Army

> Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, commander of U.S. forces in northern Iraq, told

> CNN. He said that was evident from the fact Yazidis live in a remote part

> of Ninevah province that has been far from Iraq's conflict.

>

> Mixon said last month that he proposed reducing American troop levels in

> Ninevah and predicted the province would shift to Iraqi government control

> as early as this month. It was unclear whether that projection would hold

> after Tuesday's staggering casualties.

>

> Death estimates ranged widely.

>

> Zayan Othman, health minister for Iraq's nearby autonomous Kurdish region,

> said 250 bodies had been pulled from the rubble and some 350 people were

> injured.

>

> But the death toll was put as high as 500 by some local officials,

> including Hashim al-Hamadani, a senior provincial security official; Kifah

> Mohammed, director of Sinjar hospital; and Iraqi army Capt. Mohammed

> Ahmed. They agreed with Othman that about 350 were wounded.

>

> None of the officials provided information on how they arrived at their

> estimates. The figures could not be independently checked because the area

> was under curfew and casualties had been taken to numerous hospitals.

>

> Even the lower death estimate far surpassed the previous bloodiest attack

> of the war -- 215 people killed by mortar fire and five car bombs in

> Baghdad's Shiite Muslim enclave of Sadr City last Nov. 23.

>

> U.S. officials believe insurgents have been regrouping across northern

> Iraq after being driven from strongholds in and around Baghdad, and the

> bombings coincided with the start of a major offensive by American and

> Iraqi troops against militants in the Diyala River Valley.

>

> The carnage dealt a serious blow to the Bush administrations hopes of

> presenting a positive picture in a progress report on Iraq to be delivered

> by the top U.S. commander, Gen. David Petraeus, and U.S. Ambassador Ryan

> Crocker in about four weeks.

>

> Petraeus warned that he expected Sunni Arab insurgents to stage more

> spectacular attacks ahead of the report to Congress, whose members are

> deeply divided over whether to begin withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.

>

> ''This is way out by the Syrian border, an area where we do think in fact

> some suicide bombers are able to come across the border. It's an area that

> is very, very remote -- quite small villages out there -- and it was

> disheartening for us, too, obviously,'' Petraeus told The Associated Press

> in an interview.

>

> ''We've always said al-Qaida would try to carry out sensational attacks

> this month in particular,'' he added. ''We've had some success against

> them in certain areas, but we've also said they do retain the capability

> to carry out these horrific and indiscriminate attacks such as the ones

> yesterday. There will be more of that, tragically.''

>

> Minority sects such as the Yazidis are especially vulnerable as militants

> seek new targets to avoid the strict security measures clamped on Baghdad

> and surrounding areas to stop violence among warring Sunni and Shiite

> factions.

>

> Some Muslims and Christians consider an angel figure worshipped by Yazidis

> to be the devil, a charge the sect denies. The Islamic State in Iraq, an

> al-Qaida front group, distributed leaflets a week ago warning residents

> near the scene of Tuesday's bombings that an attack was imminent because

> Yazidis are ''anti-Islamic.''

>

> The sect also gained unwanted attention when some members stoned an

> 18-year-old Yazidi woman to death in April after she converted to Islam

> and fled her family with a Muslim boyfriend. Recent attacks on Yazidis

> have been blamed on al-Qaida-linked Sunni extremists seeking to avenge her

> death.

>

> The only Yazidi legislator in Iraq's 275-seat parliament called on the

> government to do more to protect the country's small communities.

>

> ''The ethnic and religious minorities do not have militias while all the

> powerful parties have strong militias in Iraq,'' Amin Farhan said. ''The

> government should protect these minorities by giving them weapons so that

> they can confront the terrorist groups.''

>

> Officials in northwestern Iraq called on people to donate blood and

> pleaded for aid as many families were left homeless after their houses

> collapsed in the bombings near Sinjar.

>

> ''The residents are appealing now to governmental and non-governmental

> organizations to help them with medicines, food, water and tents,'' Farhan

> said. ''About 50 houses have completely collapsed over their families.

> Many of the victims have been badly dismembered. Rescuers are only finding

> pieces of dead bodies.''

>

> Dakhil Qassim, the Sinjar mayor, said the four truck bombers approached

> two areas in the town of Qahataniya, 75 miles west of Mosul, from dirt

> roads and all exploded within minutes of each other. He said the casualty

> toll was expected to rise.

>

> ''We are still digging with our hands and shovels because we can't use

> cranes because many of the houses were built of clay,'' Qassim said.

>

> Hospitals across the region were overwhelmed and only emergency vehicles

> were exempt from a curfew that was in place across towns west of Mosul,

> 225 miles northwest of Baghdad.

>

> Nurses dabbed the bloodied face of a young boy and held his hand as he

> wailed in pain. A toddler with bruised eyes had bandages wrapped around

> his head and arms.

>

> ''The car bombs that were used all had the consistent profile of al-Qaida

> in Iraq violence,'' a U.S. military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner,

> told reporters in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone.

>

> Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issued a statement blaming the

> bombings on ''terrorism powers who seek to fuel sectarian strife and

> damage our people's national unity.''

>

> U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement strongly condemning

> the attack, saying ''nothing can justify such indiscriminate violence

> against innocent civilians.'' He urged Iraqi leaders to set aside

> political and religious differences to work together to protect civilians.

>

> Elsewhere in Iraq, at least 44 other people were killed or found dead

> Wednesday, including 24 bullet-riddled bodies of apparent victims of

> sectarian death squads usually run by Shiite militias. Five civilians also

> died in separate car bombings in the northern cities of Mosul and Kirkuk

> and the southern city of Hillah.

>

> Northeast of Baghdad, Iraqi civilians joined police to rise up against

> suspected al-Qaida-linked gunmen after a mortar attack in Buhriz. Eight

> gunmen and six civilians died in the fighting, police said.

>

August 15, 2007

"Verizon News Server" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

news:%TMwi.4490$jU4.2451@trnddc02...

> Your question has a false premise.

>

> Success was never possible in Iraq.

> bush,jr attacked the wrong country.

>

Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

IMMEDIATELY. Do you hear anyone making that demand? Do you hear the

democrats who are the most vocal oppenent of the effort in Iraq make that

demand? Do you hear any of the Democratic Presidential wannabees say that

we should withdraw IMMEDIADETLY. Do you support the IMMEDIATE withdraw of

our troops from Iraq? Why wait for the report from Patraeus? The longer

you wait, more people die.....

August 15, 2007

August 15, 2007

Death Toll in Iraq Blasts Rises to 250

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 6:23 p.m. ET

BAGHDAD (AP) -- Rescuers used bare hands and shovels Wednesday to claw

through clay houses shattered by an onslaught of suicide bombings that

killed at least 250 and possibly as many as 500 members of an ancient

religious sect in the deadliest attack of the Iraq war.

The U.S. military blamed al-Qaida in Iraq, and an American commander called

the assault an ''act of ethnic cleansing.''

The victims of Tuesday night's coordinated attack by four suicide bombers

were Yazidis, a small Kurdish-speaking sect that has been targeted by Muslim

extremists who consider its members to be blasphemers.

The blasts in two villages near the Syrian border crumbled buildings,

trapping entire families beneath mud bricks and other wreckage. Entire

neighborhoods were flattened.

''This is an act of ethnic cleansing, if you will, almost genocide,'' Army

Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, commander of U.S. forces in northern Iraq, told

CNN. He said that was evident from the fact Yazidis live in a remote part of

Ninevah province that has been far from Iraq's conflict.

Mixon said last month that he proposed reducing American troop levels in

Ninevah and predicted the province would shift to Iraqi government control

as early as this month. It was unclear whether that projection would hold

after Tuesday's staggering casualties.

Death estimates ranged widely.

Zayan Othman, health minister for Iraq's nearby autonomous Kurdish region,

said 250 bodies had been pulled from the rubble and some 350 people were

injured.

But the death toll was put as high as 500 by some local officials, including

Hashim al-Hamadani, a senior provincial security official; Kifah Mohammed,

director of Sinjar hospital; and Iraqi army Capt. Mohammed Ahmed. They

agreed with Othman that about 350 were wounded.

None of the officials provided information on how they arrived at their

estimates. The figures could not be independently checked because the area

was under curfew and casualties had been taken to numerous hospitals.

Even the lower death estimate far surpassed the previous bloodiest attack of

the war -- 215 people killed by mortar fire and five car bombs in Baghdad's

Shiite Muslim enclave of Sadr City last Nov. 23.

U.S. officials believe insurgents have been regrouping across northern Iraq

after being driven from strongholds in and around Baghdad, and the bombings

coincided with the start of a major offensive by American and Iraqi troops

against militants in the Diyala River Valley.

The carnage dealt a serious blow to the Bush administrations hopes of

presenting a positive picture in a progress report on Iraq to be delivered

by the top U.S. commander, Gen. David Petraeus, and U.S. Ambassador Ryan

Crocker in about four weeks.

Petraeus warned that he expected Sunni Arab insurgents to stage more

spectacular attacks ahead of the report to Congress, whose members are

deeply divided over whether to begin withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.

''This is way out by the Syrian border, an area where we do think in fact

some suicide bombers are able to come across the border. It's an area that

is very, very remote -- quite small villages out there -- and it was

disheartening for us, too, obviously,'' Petraeus told The Associated Press

in an interview.

''We've always said al-Qaida would try to carry out sensational attacks this

month in particular,'' he added. ''We've had some success against them in

certain areas, but we've also said they do retain the capability to carry

out these horrific and indiscriminate attacks such as the ones yesterday.

There will be more of that, tragically.''

Minority sects such as the Yazidis are especially vulnerable as militants

seek new targets to avoid the strict security measures clamped on Baghdad

and surrounding areas to stop violence among warring Sunni and Shiite

factions.

Some Muslims and Christians consider an angel figure worshipped by Yazidis

to be the devil, a charge the sect denies. The Islamic State in Iraq, an

al-Qaida front group, distributed leaflets a week ago warning residents near

the scene of Tuesday's bombings that an attack was imminent because Yazidis

are ''anti-Islamic.''

The sect also gained unwanted attention when some members stoned an

18-year-old Yazidi woman to death in April after she converted to Islam and

fled her family with a Muslim boyfriend. Recent attacks on Yazidis have been

blamed on al-Qaida-linked Sunni extremists seeking to avenge her death.

The only Yazidi legislator in Iraq's 275-seat parliament called on the

government to do more to protect the country's small communities.

''The ethnic and religious minorities do not have militias while all the

powerful parties have strong militias in Iraq,'' Amin Farhan said. ''The

government should protect these minorities by giving them weapons so that

they can confront the terrorist groups.''

Officials in northwestern Iraq called on people to donate blood and pleaded

for aid as many families were left homeless after their houses collapsed in

the bombings near Sinjar.

''The residents are appealing now to governmental and non-governmental

organizations to help them with medicines, food, water and tents,'' Farhan

said. ''About 50 houses have completely collapsed over their families. Many

of the victims have been badly dismembered. Rescuers are only finding pieces

of dead bodies.''

Dakhil Qassim, the Sinjar mayor, said the four truck bombers approached two

areas in the town of Qahataniya, 75 miles west of Mosul, from dirt roads and

all exploded within minutes of each other. He said the casualty toll was

expected to rise.

''We are still digging with our hands and shovels because we can't use

cranes because many of the houses were built of clay,'' Qassim said.

Hospitals across the region were overwhelmed and only emergency vehicles

were exempt from a curfew that was in place across towns west of Mosul, 225

miles northwest of Baghdad.

Nurses dabbed the bloodied face of a young boy and held his hand as he

wailed in pain. A toddler with bruised eyes had bandages wrapped around his

head and arms.

''The car bombs that were used all had the consistent profile of al-Qaida in

Iraq violence,'' a U.S. military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner, told

reporters in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issued a statement blaming the bombings

on ''terrorism powers who seek to fuel sectarian strife and damage our

people's national unity.''

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement strongly condemning

the attack, saying ''nothing can justify such indiscriminate violence

against innocent civilians.'' He urged Iraqi leaders to set aside political

and religious differences to work together to protect civilians.

Elsewhere in Iraq, at least 44 other people were killed or found dead

Wednesday, including 24 bullet-riddled bodies of apparent victims of

sectarian death squads usually run by Shiite militias. Five civilians also

died in separate car bombings in the northern cities of Mosul and Kirkuk and

the southern city of Hillah.

Northeast of Baghdad, Iraqi civilians joined police to rise up against

suspected al-Qaida-linked gunmen after a mortar attack in Buhriz. Eight

gunmen and six civilians died in the fighting, police said.

August 15, 2007

On Aug 15, 4:52 pm, "Sid9" <s...@verizon.net> wrote:

> August 15, 2007

> Death Toll in Iraq Blasts Rises to 250

> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

> Filed at 6:23 p.m. ET

>

> BAGHDAD (AP) -- Rescuers used bare hands and shovels Wednesday to claw

> through clay houses shattered by an onslaught of suicide bombings that

> killed at least 250 and possibly as many as 500 members of an ancient

> religious sect in the deadliest attack of the Iraq war.

>

> The U.S. military blamed al-Qaida in Iraq, and an American commander called

> the assault an ''act of ethnic cleansing.''

>

> The victims of Tuesday night's coordinated attack by four suicide bombers

> were Yazidis, a small Kurdish-speaking sect that has been targeted by Muslim

> extremists who consider its members to be blasphemers.

>

> The blasts in two villages near the Syrian border crumbled buildings,

> trapping entire families beneath mud bricks and other wreckage. Entire

> neighborhoods were flattened.

>

> ''This is an act of ethnic cleansing, if you will, almost genocide,'' Army

> Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, commander of U.S. forces in northern Iraq, told

> CNN. He said that was evident from the fact Yazidis live in a remote part of

> Ninevah province that has been far from Iraq's conflict.

>

> Mixon said last month that he proposed reducing American troop levels in

> Ninevah and predicted the province would shift to Iraqi government control

> as early as this month. It was unclear whether that projection would hold

> after Tuesday's staggering casualties.

>

> Death estimates ranged widely.

>

> Zayan Othman, health minister for Iraq's nearby autonomous Kurdish region,

> said 250 bodies had been pulled from the rubble and some 350 people were

> injured.

>

> But the death toll was put as high as 500 by some local officials, including

> Hashim al-Hamadani, a senior provincial security official; Kifah Mohammed,

> director of Sinjar hospital; and Iraqi army Capt. Mohammed Ahmed. They

> agreed with Othman that about 350 were wounded.

>

> None of the officials provided information on how they arrived at their

> estimates. The figures could not be independently checked because the area

> was under curfew and casualties had been taken to numerous hospitals.

>

> Even the lower death estimate far surpassed the previous bloodiest attack of

> the war -- 215 people killed by mortar fire and five car bombs in Baghdad's

> Shiite Muslim enclave of Sadr City last Nov. 23.

>

> U.S. officials believe insurgents have been regrouping across northern Iraq

> after being driven from strongholds in and around Baghdad, and the bombings

> coincided with the start of a major offensive by American and Iraqi troops

> against militants in the Diyala River Valley.

>

> The carnage dealt a serious blow to the Bush administrations hopes of

> presenting a positive picture in a progress report on Iraq to be delivered

> by the top U.S. commander, Gen. David Petraeus, and U.S. Ambassador Ryan

> Crocker in about four weeks.

>

> Petraeus warned that he expected Sunni Arab insurgents to stage more

> spectacular attacks ahead of the report to Congress, whose members are

> deeply divided over whether to begin withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.

>

> ''This is way out by the Syrian border, an area where we do think in fact

> some suicide bombers are able to come across the border. It's an area that

> is very, very remote -- quite small villages out there -- and it was

> disheartening for us, too, obviously,'' Petraeus told The Associated Press

> in an interview.

>

> ''We've always said al-Qaida would try to carry out sensational attacks this

> month in particular,'' he added. ''We've had some success against them in

> certain areas, but we've also said they do retain the capability to carry

> out these horrific and indiscriminate attacks such as the ones yesterday.

> There will be more of that, tragically.''

>

> Minority sects such as the Yazidis are especially vulnerable as militants

> seek new targets to avoid the strict security measures clamped on Baghdad

> and surrounding areas to stop violence among warring Sunni and Shiite

> factions.

>

> Some Muslims and Christians consider an angel figure worshipped by Yazidis

> to be the devil, a charge the sect denies. The Islamic State in Iraq, an

> al-Qaida front group, distributed leaflets a week ago warning residents near

> the scene of Tuesday's bombings that an attack was imminent because Yazidis

> are ''anti-Islamic.''

>

> The sect also gained unwanted attention when some members stoned an

> 18-year-old Yazidi woman to death in April after she converted to Islam and

> fled her family with a Muslim boyfriend. Recent attacks on Yazidis have been

> blamed on al-Qaida-linked Sunni extremists seeking to avenge her death.

>

> The only Yazidi legislator in Iraq's 275-seat parliament called on the

> government to do more to protect the country's small communities.

>

> ''The ethnic and religious minorities do not have militias while all the

> powerful parties have strong militias in Iraq,'' Amin Farhan said. ''The

> government should protect these minorities by giving them weapons so that

> they can confront the terrorist groups.''

>

> Officials in northwestern Iraq called on people to donate blood and pleaded

> for aid as many families were left homeless after their houses collapsed in

> the bombings near Sinjar.

>

> ''The residents are appealing now to governmental and non-governmental

> organizations to help them with medicines, food, water and tents,'' Farhan

> said. ''About 50 houses have completely collapsed over their families. Many

> of the victims have been badly dismembered. Rescuers are only finding pieces

> of dead bodies.''

>

> Dakhil Qassim, the Sinjar mayor, said the four truck bombers approached two

> areas in the town of Qahataniya, 75 miles west of Mosul, from dirt roads and

> all exploded within minutes of each other. He said the casualty toll was

> expected to rise.

>

> ''We are still digging with our hands and shovels because we can't use

> cranes because many of the houses were built of clay,'' Qassim said.

>

> Hospitals across the region were overwhelmed and only emergency vehicles

> were exempt from a curfew that was in place across towns west of Mosul, 225

> miles northwest of Baghdad.

>

> Nurses dabbed the bloodied face of a young boy and held his hand as he

> wailed in pain. A toddler with bruised eyes had bandages wrapped around his

> head and arms.

>

> ''The car bombs that were used all had the consistent profile of al-Qaida in

> Iraq violence,'' a U.S. military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner, told

> reporters in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone.

>

> Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issued a statement blaming the bombings

> on ''terrorism powers who seek to fuel sectarian strife and damage our

> people's national unity.''

>

> U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement strongly condemning

> the attack, saying ''nothing can justify such indiscriminate violence

> against innocent civilians.'' He urged Iraqi leaders to set aside political

> and religious differences to work together to protect civilians.

>

> Elsewhere in Iraq, at least 44 other people were killed or found dead

> Wednesday, including 24 bullet-riddled bodies of apparent victims of

> sectarian death squads usually run by Shiite militias. Five civilians also

> died in separate car bombings in the northern cities of Mosul and Kirkuk and

> the southern city of Hillah.

>

> Northeast of Baghdad, Iraqi civilians joined police to rise up against

> suspected al-Qaida-linked gunmen after a mortar attack in Buhriz. Eight

> gunmen and six civilians died in the fighting, police said.

We are killing them as fast as we can and they are helping

us to accomplish the annihilation of the radicals by committing

suicide. It's a matter of attrition. The more of them that die

the sooner we'll see peace on this Planet.

August 15, 2007

jose wrote:

> On Aug 15, 4:52 pm, "Sid9" <s...@verizon.net> wrote:

>> August 15, 2007

>> Death Toll in Iraq Blasts Rises to 250

>> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

>> Filed at 6:23 p.m. ET

>>

>> BAGHDAD (AP) -- Rescuers used bare hands and shovels Wednesday to

>> claw through clay houses shattered by an onslaught of suicide

>> bombings that killed at least 250 and possibly as many as 500

>> members of an ancient religious sect in the deadliest attack of the

>> Iraq war.

>>

>> The U.S. military blamed al-Qaida in Iraq, and an American commander

>> called the assault an ''act of ethnic cleansing.''

>>

>> The victims of Tuesday night's coordinated attack by four suicide

>> bombers were Yazidis, a small Kurdish-speaking sect that has been

>> targeted by Muslim extremists who consider its members to be

>> blasphemers.

>>

>> The blasts in two villages near the Syrian border crumbled buildings,

>> trapping entire families beneath mud bricks and other wreckage.

>> Entire neighborhoods were flattened.

>>

>> ''This is an act of ethnic cleansing, if you will, almost

>> genocide,'' Army Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, commander of U.S. forces

>> in northern Iraq, told CNN. He said that was evident from the fact

>> Yazidis live in a remote part of Ninevah province that has been far

>> from Iraq's conflict.

>>

>> Mixon said last month that he proposed reducing American troop

>> levels in Ninevah and predicted the province would shift to Iraqi

>> government control as early as this month. It was unclear whether

>> that projection would hold after Tuesday's staggering casualties.

>>

>> Death estimates ranged widely.

>>

>> Zayan Othman, health minister for Iraq's nearby autonomous Kurdish

>> region, said 250 bodies had been pulled from the rubble and some 350

>> people were injured.

>>

>> But the death toll was put as high as 500 by some local officials,

>> including Hashim al-Hamadani, a senior provincial security official;

>> Kifah Mohammed, director of Sinjar hospital; and Iraqi army Capt.

>> Mohammed Ahmed. They agreed with Othman that about 350 were wounded.

>>

>> None of the officials provided information on how they arrived at

>> their estimates. The figures could not be independently checked

>> because the area was under curfew and casualties had been taken to

>> numerous hospitals.

>>

>> Even the lower death estimate far surpassed the previous bloodiest

>> attack of the war -- 215 people killed by mortar fire and five car

>> bombs in Baghdad's Shiite Muslim enclave of Sadr City last Nov. 23.

>>

>> U.S. officials believe insurgents have been regrouping across

>> northern Iraq after being driven from strongholds in and around

>> Baghdad, and the bombings coincided with the start of a major

>> offensive by American and Iraqi troops against militants in the

>> Diyala River Valley.

>>

>> The carnage dealt a serious blow to the Bush administrations hopes

>> of presenting a positive picture in a progress report on Iraq to be

>> delivered by the top U.S. commander, Gen. David Petraeus, and U.S.

>> Ambassador Ryan Crocker in about four weeks.

>>

>> Petraeus warned that he expected Sunni Arab insurgents to stage more

>> spectacular attacks ahead of the report to Congress, whose members

>> are deeply divided over whether to begin withdrawing U.S. troops

>> from Iraq.

>>

>> ''This is way out by the Syrian border, an area where we do think in

>> fact some suicide bombers are able to come across the border. It's

>> an area that is very, very remote -- quite small villages out there

>> -- and it was disheartening for us, too, obviously,'' Petraeus told

>> The Associated Press in an interview.

>>

>> ''We've always said al-Qaida would try to carry out sensational

>> attacks this month in particular,'' he added. ''We've had some

>> success against them in certain areas, but we've also said they do

>> retain the capability to carry out these horrific and indiscriminate

>> attacks such as the ones yesterday. There will be more of that,

>> tragically.''

>>

>> Minority sects such as the Yazidis are especially vulnerable as

>> militants seek new targets to avoid the strict security measures

>> clamped on Baghdad and surrounding areas to stop violence among

>> warring Sunni and Shiite factions.

>>

>> Some Muslims and Christians consider an angel figure worshipped by

>> Yazidis to be the devil, a charge the sect denies. The Islamic State

>> in Iraq, an al-Qaida front group, distributed leaflets a week ago

>> warning residents near the scene of Tuesday's bombings that an

>> attack was imminent because Yazidis are ''anti-Islamic.''

>>

>> The sect also gained unwanted attention when some members stoned an

>> 18-year-old Yazidi woman to death in April after she converted to

>> Islam and fled her family with a Muslim boyfriend. Recent attacks on

>> Yazidis have been blamed on al-Qaida-linked Sunni extremists seeking

>> to avenge her death.

>>

>> The only Yazidi legislator in Iraq's 275-seat parliament called on

>> the government to do more to protect the country's small communities.

>>

>> ''The ethnic and religious minorities do not have militias while all

>> the powerful parties have strong militias in Iraq,'' Amin Farhan

>> said. ''The government should protect these minorities by giving

>> them weapons so that they can confront the terrorist groups.''

>>

>> Officials in northwestern Iraq called on people to donate blood and

>> pleaded for aid as many families were left homeless after their

>> houses collapsed in the bombings near Sinjar.

>>

>> ''The residents are appealing now to governmental and

>> non-governmental organizations to help them with medicines, food,

>> water and tents,'' Farhan said. ''About 50 houses have completely

>> collapsed over their families. Many of the victims have been badly

>> dismembered. Rescuers are only finding pieces of dead bodies.''

>>

>> Dakhil Qassim, the Sinjar mayor, said the four truck bombers

>> approached two areas in the town of Qahataniya, 75 miles west of

>> Mosul, from dirt roads and all exploded within minutes of each

>> other. He said the casualty toll was expected to rise.

>>

>> ''We are still digging with our hands and shovels because we can't

>> use cranes because many of the houses were built of clay,'' Qassim

>> said.

>>

>> Hospitals across the region were overwhelmed and only emergency

>> vehicles were exempt from a curfew that was in place across towns

>> west of Mosul, 225 miles northwest of Baghdad.

>>

>> Nurses dabbed the bloodied face of a young boy and held his hand as

>> he wailed in pain. A toddler with bruised eyes had bandages wrapped

>> around his head and arms.

>>

>> ''The car bombs that were used all had the consistent profile of

>> al-Qaida in Iraq violence,'' a U.S. military spokesman, Brig. Gen.

>> Kevin Bergner, told reporters in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green

>> Zone.

>>

>> Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issued a statement blaming the

>> bombings on ''terrorism powers who seek to fuel sectarian strife and

>> damage our people's national unity.''

>>

>> U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement strongly

>> condemning the attack, saying ''nothing can justify such

>> indiscriminate violence against innocent civilians.'' He urged Iraqi

>> leaders to set aside political and religious differences to work

>> together to protect civilians.

>>

>> Elsewhere in Iraq, at least 44 other people were killed or found dead

>> Wednesday, including 24 bullet-riddled bodies of apparent victims of

>> sectarian death squads usually run by Shiite militias. Five

>> civilians also died in separate car bombings in the northern cities

>> of Mosul and Kirkuk and the southern city of Hillah.

>>

>> Northeast of Baghdad, Iraqi civilians joined police to rise up

>> against suspected al-Qaida-linked gunmen after a mortar attack in

>> Buhriz. Eight gunmen and six civilians died in the fighting, police

>> said.

>

> We are killing them as fast as we can and they are helping

> us to accomplish the annihilation of the radicals by committing

> suicide. It's a matter of attrition. The more of them that die

> the sooner we'll see peace on this Planet.

Time for Petraeus, under

bush,jr and Cheney's

instructions, to declare

victory and redeploy our

soldiers out of harms way.

Petraeus another gutless

ass kissing general who

all told bush,jr what he

wanted to hear

Franks

Bremer

Garner

Casey

Abazaid

Petraeus

No one spoke out.

No one asked for more troops (according to bush,jr)

Each and every one of them failed at their mission.

But, in fact this fish stinks from the head.

This failure is bush,jr's failure.

August 16, 2007

Your question has a false premise.

Success was never possible in Iraq.

bush,jr attacked the wrong country.

He should apologize, get our troops

out of Iraq and promptly resign

immediately after Cheney.

President Pelosi should preside

over a unity government until

the next regular election.

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:46c391f7$0$28893$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

> answer me one of these days?

>

> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:FsLwi.12933$jy5.2647@trnddc07...

>> August 15, 2007

>> Death Toll in Iraq Blasts Rises to 250

>> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

>> Filed at 6:23 p.m. ET

>>

>> BAGHDAD (AP) -- Rescuers used bare hands and shovels Wednesday to claw

>> through clay houses shattered by an onslaught of suicide bombings that

>> killed at least 250 and possibly as many as 500 members of an ancient

>> religious sect in the deadliest attack of the Iraq war.

>>

>> The U.S. military blamed al-Qaida in Iraq, and an American commander

>> called the assault an ''act of ethnic cleansing.''

>>

>> The victims of Tuesday night's coordinated attack by four suicide bombers

>> were Yazidis, a small Kurdish-speaking sect that has been targeted by

>> Muslim extremists who consider its members to be blasphemers.

>>

>> The blasts in two villages near the Syrian border crumbled buildings,

>> trapping entire families beneath mud bricks and other wreckage. Entire

>> neighborhoods were flattened.

>>

>> ''This is an act of ethnic cleansing, if you will, almost genocide,''

>> Army Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, commander of U.S. forces in northern Iraq,

>> told CNN. He said that was evident from the fact Yazidis live in a remote

>> part of Ninevah province that has been far from Iraq's conflict.

>>

>> Mixon said last month that he proposed reducing American troop levels in

>> Ninevah and predicted the province would shift to Iraqi government

>> control as early as this month. It was unclear whether that projection

>> would hold after Tuesday's staggering casualties.

>>

>> Death estimates ranged widely.

>>

>> Zayan Othman, health minister for Iraq's nearby autonomous Kurdish

>> region, said 250 bodies had been pulled from the rubble and some 350

>> people were injured.

>>

>> But the death toll was put as high as 500 by some local officials,

>> including Hashim al-Hamadani, a senior provincial security official;

>> Kifah Mohammed, director of Sinjar hospital; and Iraqi army Capt.

>> Mohammed Ahmed. They agreed with Othman that about 350 were wounded.

>>

>> None of the officials provided information on how they arrived at their

>> estimates. The figures could not be independently checked because the

>> area was under curfew and casualties had been taken to numerous

>> hospitals.

>>

>> Even the lower death estimate far surpassed the previous bloodiest attack

>> of the war -- 215 people killed by mortar fire and five car bombs in

>> Baghdad's Shiite Muslim enclave of Sadr City last Nov. 23.

>>

>> U.S. officials believe insurgents have been regrouping across northern

>> Iraq after being driven from strongholds in and around Baghdad, and the

>> bombings coincided with the start of a major offensive by American and

>> Iraqi troops against militants in the Diyala River Valley.

>>

>> The carnage dealt a serious blow to the Bush administrations hopes of

>> presenting a positive picture in a progress report on Iraq to be

>> delivered by the top U.S. commander, Gen. David Petraeus, and U.S.

>> Ambassador Ryan Crocker in about four weeks.

>>

>> Petraeus warned that he expected Sunni Arab insurgents to stage more

>> spectacular attacks ahead of the report to Congress, whose members are

>> deeply divided over whether to begin withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.

>>

>> ''This is way out by the Syrian border, an area where we do think in fact

>> some suicide bombers are able to come across the border. It's an area

>> that is very, very remote -- quite small villages out there -- and it was

>> disheartening for us, too, obviously,'' Petraeus told The Associated

>> Press in an interview.

>>

>> ''We've always said al-Qaida would try to carry out sensational attacks

>> this month in particular,'' he added. ''We've had some success against

>> them in certain areas, but we've also said they do retain the capability

>> to carry out these horrific and indiscriminate attacks such as the ones

>> yesterday. There will be more of that, tragically.''

>>

>> Minority sects such as the Yazidis are especially vulnerable as militants

>> seek new targets to avoid the strict security measures clamped on Baghdad

>> and surrounding areas to stop violence among warring Sunni and Shiite

>> factions.

>>

>> Some Muslims and Christians consider an angel figure worshipped by

>> Yazidis to be the devil, a charge the sect denies. The Islamic State in

>> Iraq, an al-Qaida front group, distributed leaflets a week ago warning

>> residents near the scene of Tuesday's bombings that an attack was

>> imminent because Yazidis are ''anti-Islamic.''

>>

>> The sect also gained unwanted attention when some members stoned an

>> 18-year-old Yazidi woman to death in April after she converted to Islam

>> and fled her family with a Muslim boyfriend. Recent attacks on Yazidis

>> have been blamed on al-Qaida-linked Sunni extremists seeking to avenge

>> her death.

>>

>> The only Yazidi legislator in Iraq's 275-seat parliament called on the

>> government to do more to protect the country's small communities.

>>

>> ''The ethnic and religious minorities do not have militias while all the

>> powerful parties have strong militias in Iraq,'' Amin Farhan said. ''The

>> government should protect these minorities by giving them weapons so that

>> they can confront the terrorist groups.''

>>

>> Officials in northwestern Iraq called on people to donate blood and

>> pleaded for aid as many families were left homeless after their houses

>> collapsed in the bombings near Sinjar.

>>

>> ''The residents are appealing now to governmental and non-governmental

>> organizations to help them with medicines, food, water and tents,''

>> Farhan said. ''About 50 houses have completely collapsed over their

>> families. Many of the victims have been badly dismembered. Rescuers are

>> only finding pieces of dead bodies.''

>>

>> Dakhil Qassim, the Sinjar mayor, said the four truck bombers approached

>> two areas in the town of Qahataniya, 75 miles west of Mosul, from dirt

>> roads and all exploded within minutes of each other. He said the casualty

>> toll was expected to rise.

>>

>> ''We are still digging with our hands and shovels because we can't use

>> cranes because many of the houses were built of clay,'' Qassim said.

>>

>> Hospitals across the region were overwhelmed and only emergency vehicles

>> were exempt from a curfew that was in place across towns west of Mosul,

>> 225 miles northwest of Baghdad.

>>

>> Nurses dabbed the bloodied face of a young boy and held his hand as he

>> wailed in pain. A toddler with bruised eyes had bandages wrapped around

>> his head and arms.

>>

>> ''The car bombs that were used all had the consistent profile of al-Qaida

>> in Iraq violence,'' a U.S. military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner,

>> told reporters in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone.

>>

>> Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issued a statement blaming the

>> bombings on ''terrorism powers who seek to fuel sectarian strife and

>> damage our people's national unity.''

>>

>> U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement strongly condemning

>> the attack, saying ''nothing can justify such indiscriminate violence

>> against innocent civilians.'' He urged Iraqi leaders to set aside

>> political and religious differences to work together to protect

>> civilians.

>>

>> Elsewhere in Iraq, at least 44 other people were killed or found dead

>> Wednesday, including 24 bullet-riddled bodies of apparent victims of

>> sectarian death squads usually run by Shiite militias. Five civilians

>> also died in separate car bombings in the northern cities of Mosul and

>> Kirkuk and the southern city of Hillah.

>>

>> Northeast of Baghdad, Iraqi civilians joined police to rise up against

>> suspected al-Qaida-linked gunmen after a mortar attack in Buhriz. Eight

>> gunmen and six civilians died in the fighting, police said.

>>

>

August 16, 2007

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:46c391f7$0$28893$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

> answer me one of these days?

>

conservatives can not be successful, and hillbilly conservatives can do

nothing but lose and fail

August 16, 2007

we should send all of you war supporting, gutless, yellow, cowards to iraq

to quell the violence

sort of a put up or shut up dose of reality

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>

> "Verizon News Server" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

> news:%TMwi.4490$jU4.2451@trnddc02...

>> Your question has a false premise.

>>

>> Success was never possible in Iraq.

>> bush,jr attacked the wrong country.

>>

> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

> IMMEDIATELY. Do you hear anyone making that demand? Do you hear the

> democrats who are the most vocal oppenent of the effort in Iraq make that

> demand? Do you hear any of the Democratic Presidential wannabees say that

> we should withdraw IMMEDIADETLY. Do you support the IMMEDIATE withdraw of

> our troops from Iraq? Why wait for the report from Patraeus? The longer

> you wait, more people die.....

August 16, 2007

Jerry Okamura wrote:

>

> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

> answer me one of these days?

Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:FsLwi.12933$jy5.2647@trnddc07...

> > August 15, 2007

> > Death Toll in Iraq Blasts Rises to 250

August 16, 2007

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in

news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

>

> "Verizon News Server" <sid9@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

> news:%TMwi.4490$jU4.2451@trnddc02...

>> Your question has a false premise.

>>

>> Success was never possible in Iraq.

>> bush,jr attacked the wrong country.

>>

> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

> IMMEDIATELY. Do you hear anyone making that demand? Do you hear the

> democrats who are the most vocal oppenent of the effort in Iraq make

> that demand? Do you hear any of the Democratic Presidential wannabees

> say that we should withdraw IMMEDIADETLY. Do you support the

> IMMEDIATE withdraw of our troops from Iraq? Why wait for the report

> from Patraeus? The longer you wait, more people die.....

>

Thats because democrats suck.

August 16, 2007

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

> IMMEDIATELY.

Why?

--

"History! Read it and weep!"

-Bokonon

_______________________________________________

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

August 16, 2007

"Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>

>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

>> answer me one of these days?

>

> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>

You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen to ignore

my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on these newsgroups.

Besides, you don't need my definition of success. Use your own definition

of success, then answer the question.

August 16, 2007

"Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>

> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>

>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>> IMMEDIATELY.

>

> Why?

>

You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible, then we

are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of them dying

everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be achieved.

August 16, 2007

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:46c43f99$1$16472$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>

> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>

>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>

>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>

>> Why?

>>

> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible, then we

> are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of them dying

> everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be achieved.

"WE" ???

you delusional armchair warrior gutless conservative hillbillies have been

doing that for 4 1/2 years

and we're not letting you losers,failures, and fuckups off the hook

August 16, 2007

"Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>

>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

>> answer me one of these days?

>

> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

these conservatives have been losing,failing, and fucking up for 6 1/2 years

they got theyselves onea them thar hillbilly presichimps and a hillbilly

congress and things was gonna be a whole lot difrent from now on yall hear

??

then they proceeded to do what retarded,bow legged,cross eyed goobers always

do

they fucked up everything they touched, stole everything they could,

tried to turn America into the Hillbilly Reich and

the results ?

same as always, they got and are still getting their asses whipped

where are those arrogant,know it all,insulting, denigrating,loud mouth

faggots now ??

sordo,frederick,stevens,marib,nixon, etc.

trying to blame it all on liberals, and in their desperation and angst their

true nature is starting to show

August 16, 2007

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>

>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>

>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>

>> Why?

>>

> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of

> them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be

> achieved.

Not we.

You.

bush,jr supporters of his fiasco.

August 16, 2007

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:47 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

<okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>

>"Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>

>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>

>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>

>> Why?

>>

>You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible, then we

>are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of them dying

>everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be achieved.

I guess we need to make it simple. Success is not possible. The

invasion of Iraq was stupid, unnecessary, ill-planned, and poorly

executed. The US destabilized a country and had little if any plans

for the consequences of what anyone with half a brain and a knowledge

of the region knew would occur - sectarian strife. So the US has

succeeded in starting an internal war and putting the US military

right smack-dab in the middle. The stabilization of Iraq is a

political battle - not military. If the soldiers leave then all hell

breaks loose. If the soldiers stay, they continue to die for political

(not military) reasons. Success is next to impossible so the soldiers

should come home. That leaves the US in the untenable position of

taking down a regime (no matter how evil and corrupt) and leaving

nothing in return. It's our fault that Iraq is in the position we see

today.

WB Yeats

August 16, 2007

typical response. Avoid answering a question you do not want to answer at

all cost....make it into a personal attack, by attacking the messenger....

"Al E. Gator" <ho.ho@yahoo.net> wrote in message

news:T8Zwi.2480$3x.1396@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...

>

> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>

>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

>>> answer me one of these days?

>>

>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>

> these conservatives have been losing,failing, and fucking up for 6 1/2

> years

>

> they got theyselves onea them thar hillbilly presichimps and a hillbilly

> congress and things was gonna be a whole lot difrent from now on yall hear

> ??

>

> then they proceeded to do what retarded,bow legged,cross eyed goobers

> always do

>

> they fucked up everything they touched, stole everything they could,

> tried to turn America into the Hillbilly Reich and

>

> the results ?

>

> same as always, they got and are still getting their asses whipped

>

> where are those arrogant,know it all,insulting, denigrating,loud mouth

> faggots now ??

>

> sordo,frederick,stevens,marib,nixon, etc.

>

> trying to blame it all on liberals, and in their desperation and angst

> their true nature is starting to show

>

August 16, 2007

"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:i8_wi.7400$xc5.5582@trnddc06...

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>

>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>

>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>

>>> Why?

>>>

>> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

>> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of

>> them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be

>> achieved.

>

> Not we.

> You.

> bush,jr supporters of his fiasco.

>

Total foolishness. The "we" are the members of Congress, who "we" elected

to represent us.

August 16, 2007

<wbyeats@ireland.com> wrote in message

news:f3r8c35j2esfp2h8g5hgois0ggc0dfa56a@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:47 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>

>>

>>"Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>

>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>

>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>

>>> Why?

>>>

>>You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible, then we

>>are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of them dying

>>everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be achieved.

>

> I guess we need to make it simple. Success is not possible. The

> invasion of Iraq was stupid, unnecessary, ill-planned, and poorly

> executed. The US destabilized a country and had little if any plans

> for the consequences of what anyone with half a brain and a knowledge

> of the region knew would occur - sectarian strife. So the US has

> succeeded in starting an internal war and putting the US military

> right smack-dab in the middle. The stabilization of Iraq is a

> political battle - not military. If the soldiers leave then all hell

> breaks loose. If the soldiers stay, they continue to die for political

> (not military) reasons. Success is next to impossible so the soldiers

> should come home. That leaves the US in the untenable position of

> taking down a regime (no matter how evil and corrupt) and leaving

> nothing in return. It's our fault that Iraq is in the position we see

> today.

>

So, you agree that we should pull out of Iraq IMMEDIATELY? Is that what the

democrats are forcing the President to do?

August 16, 2007

"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:sW%wi.4651$jU4.2563@trnddc02...

> wbyeats@ireland.com wrote:

>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:47 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

>> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>

>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>

>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>

>>>> Why?

>>>>

>>> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

>>> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of

>>> them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be

>>> achieved.

>>

>> I guess we need to make it simple. Success is not possible. The

>> invasion of Iraq was stupid, unnecessary, ill-planned, and poorly

>> executed. The US destabilized a country and had little if any plans

>> for the consequences of what anyone with half a brain and a knowledge

>> of the region knew would occur - sectarian strife. So the US has

>> succeeded in starting an internal war and putting the US military

>> right smack-dab in the middle. The stabilization of Iraq is a

>> political battle - not military. If the soldiers leave then all hell

>> breaks loose. If the soldiers stay, they continue to die for political

>> (not military) reasons. Success is next to impossible so the soldiers

>> should come home. That leaves the US in the untenable position of

>> taking down a regime (no matter how evil and corrupt) and leaving

>> nothing in return. It's our fault that Iraq is in the position we see

>> today.

>>

>> WB Yeats

>

> Well said.

>

> Looking out for American interests, we need to get out now.

>

> bush,jr wrecked America's reputation

>

> Out now, we can start to rebuild

> our military and, with a new

> administration, rebuild our place in the world.

Why do we "have to rebuild" our military? What is the purpose of having a

military? The purpose of having a military is (1) to defend our country it

attacked, (2) to protect our access to vital resources, and (3) to use the

military for humanitarian reasons. We do not have to have such a large

military to defend this country. We do need a large military to protect our

access to vital resouces. We "could" use our super power status to do some

good. But, Iraq does have a vital resource called oil....and we do not seem

wiling to protect our access to that vital resource, then the logical

question is, what vital resource are we willing to protect? And if we are

not willing to use our super power status, while we are in the catbirds seat

to try to make the people of the world live a better life, what does that

say about our moral values? Besides, we don't seem to have the stomach for

a fight, so what good is having a military when you do not have the stomach

for the fight, that will happen when you use our military?

>

> Iraqis need to fend for themselves

> and resolve their issues without

> Americans in the crossfire.

>

August 16, 2007

"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:sN%wi.4645$jU4.315@trnddc02...

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

>> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going

>>>> to answer me one of these days?

>>>

>>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>>>

>> You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen to

>> ignore my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on these

>> newsgroups. Besides, you don't need my definition of success. Use

>> your own definition of success, then answer the question.

>

> There is no "success" in an

> ill conceived enterprise that

> was doomed from the it's

> flawed concept

>

If you cannot achieve success, and if success is not important then we

should not be there in the first place, and we should get the helll out of

Dodge IMMEDIATELY. If success is not important, then it does not matte what

Patreus has to say about progess, because success is not imporant or we

cannot achieve success in any event, so why should the democrats wait until

they hear from Patreus? Why aren't they taking aciton to get us our of

Dodge IMMEDIATELY? Why do they keep throwing money at a problem that cannot

be successful? Why didn't they cut off all funding for the effort in Iraq?

Perhaps becuase they do not share your belief that success is not important,

or because they do not share your belief that success in not possible?

August 16, 2007

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>

>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going

>>> to answer me one of these days?

>>

>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>>

> You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen to

> ignore my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on these

> newsgroups. Besides, you don't need my definition of success. Use

> your own definition of success, then answer the question.

There is no "success" in an

ill conceived enterprise that

was doomed from the it's

flawed concept

August 16, 2007

wbyeats@ireland.com wrote: