talk.origins IN VIOLATION OF ITS CHARTER.

E

Ed Conrad

Guest
<
ATTENTION:
DAVID IAIN GREIG
MODERATOR, TALK.ORIGINS
<
Maybe you should read your own charter. I think it's time YOU
played by talk.origins' own rules.
<
All you have allowed in talk.origins for years is evolution
propaganda. Anyone possessing the physical evidence
that evolution is bullcrap -- or has argued that evolution
is nothing more than a pipedream and couldn't possibly
have occurred -- is promptly and rather rudely shown the door.
<
============================================
<
For example, Dale Kelly posted this on July 6, 2007...
<
David Iain Greig, the moderator of talk.origins, has recently went
on a rampage about my posts. He has claimed they were off-topic.
All of my posts have an implication on origins.
<
The charter of talk.origins says speech will only be limited by
a cross-posting limit (4).
<
David has gone beyond the charter and begun to set arbitrary and
unspecified limits on topic, this amounts to CONTENT CENSORSHIP.
<
I don't agree with CONTENT CENSORSHIP and doubt many people
do.
<
David, if you wish to make content decisions, you should at least
specify what those decisions are, instead of making them arbitrary
and only based on your whims. You should go through the RFD/CFV
process to change the charter such that only specified topics are
allowed, if you propose to set limits on topics.
<
There is no way I can determine what you mean by off-topic, unless you
specify it. This is a convenient way for you to ban me, because your
rules will be construed to exclude ANYTHING I post until you achieve
your objective.
<
I suggest David be limited to the charter (4 crossposts), until he
goes through the RFD/CFV process to change the charter. In the
meantime, he should change the script that runs the moderation
bot, and remove all his bans and exceptions that are NOT charter
based.
<
Here is the charter
http://www.ediacara.org/~to/charter.html
<
LET'S READ IT AGAIN, WITH EMPHASIS WHERE IT BELONGS
<
CHARTER: talk.origins
<
No copy of the original charter of talk.origins is currently
available. (Apparently a formal charter was never issued.)
<
The newsgroup talk.origins is meant as a venue for discussion
of the scientific, religious, and political issues pertaining to
various theories of the origins and development of life and the
universe.
<
Within such basic guidelines, wide-ranging discussions over a large
number of topics are covered, all relating back to the main purpose
of the group.
<
Given the sometimes contentious nature of such discussions
A MODERTION POLICY HAS BEEN SELECTED TO PERMIT
NRESTRICTED DISCUSSIONS, BUT TO LIMIT CROSSPOSTING
TO/FROM TALK.ORIGINS.
<
No cross posts to more than three other groups are permitted.
NO CONTENT-BSED CONSIDERATIONS ARE TO BE MADE IN
EVALUATING ARTICLES FOR THE GROUP, ONLY THE NUMBER
OF GROUPS OSTED TO.
<
Any article submitted to talk.origins that is posted to greater than
four (4) newsgroups in either the Newsgroups: or Followup-To: headers
shall be returned to the sender with an explanation of the cross post
policy of the group. No alteration of either the Newsgroups: or
Followup-To: header is to be performed; either a post passes
the crosspost-limit or is rejected.

Articles received my the moderator will be examined to check if there
are other moderated newsgroups listed in the Newsgroups: line. Should
there be another moderated newsgroup so listed, the article will be
forwarded to the moderator of the other newsgroup for approval.
<
Should all other moderated newsgroups listed in the Newsgroups: line
already have been approved, then the moderator shall post the article,
if it passes the moderation guidelines.
<
If the article does not pass the moderation guidelines, it should be
sent back to one of the moderators of the other newsgroups, stating
why the article has been rejected. The article should also be returned
to the original poster where practicable. A copy of the scripts used
for moderation is to be kept on a publicly- accessible web site for
inspection, the location of which will be announced on a regular basis
on the newsgroup.

The moderator is permitted to cancel any unapproved posting
to the newsgroup, if (AND ONLY IF) the posting violates the
crosspost-limitation guidelines.
<
To specifically allow posting of relevant RFDs and CFVs, articles with
prior approval by the moderators of news.announce.newgroups and
.answers will be approved for posting, even where they violate the
cross-post moderation guidelines.

Cancellation, by third parties, of articles containing binary data
(bincancels) and posts that are considered 'spam' (spamcancels) or
excessive crossposting (ECPcancels) IS NOT PROHIBITED BY THIS
CHARTER, even where the post to be cancelled has been approved by
the moderator of talk.origins.

Six (6) months after such time as the moderation policy given above
shall come into effect (by public declaration of the moderator of
talk.origins on talk.origins and news.groups), a revote on the
moderation status of talk.origins is to be conducted by a neutral
vote-taker in the manner of a normal RFD/CFV.
<
Note that this revote does not depend on the wishes of the moderator
of either talk.origins or any other newsgroup. Should the proposal to
unmoderate the group pass, the group should revert to unmoderated
status as soon thereafter is practicable.
<
Should either the moderator of talk.origins or any other newsgroup
refuse to permit or conduct the revote so as to prevent it from taking
place, then the revote shall be assumed to have passed, and the
newsgroup shall immediately revert to an unmoderated status. (Once the
revote has been conducted and the results are final, this paragraph
shall be of no further effect and may be removed from the charter.)
<
================================
<
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/manasoldemboss.gif
<
< TRUTH VS. THE MONUMENTAL LIE OF MAN'S EVOLUTION
< (Fossils -- SOME HUMAN -- Found Between Coal Veins)
<
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/OldestHumanSkull.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/ManasOldasCoal.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/Discoveries.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/MoreFossils.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/HumanBrain.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/TestResults.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/OldestTool.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/Scorpion.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/MVC-013F.JPG
<
To prove they're the real McCoy:
<
< PETRIFIED FOSSILS STILL EMBEDDED IN SLATE
<
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/NewFossils/MVC-002S.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/NewFossils/MVC-003S.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/NewFossils/MVC-006S.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/NewFossils/MVC-007S.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/NewFossils/MVC-009S.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/NewFossils/MVC-010S.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/NewFossils/MVC-012S.JPG
<
Ed Conrad
Man as Old as Coal
http://www.edconrad.com
<
==========================================
<
<
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<
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<
>http://mysite.verizon.net/edconrad/FOSSILS/SaveTheWhale.jpg
 
Ed Conrad wrote:
> <
> ATTENTION:
> DAVID IAIN GREIG
> MODERATOR, TALK.ORIGINS
> <
> Maybe you should read your own charter. I think it's time YOU
> played by talk.origins' own rules.


I wonder why Ed saw fit to cross-post this to four different newsgroups,
none of which is the one he's complaining about. I don't know whether his
accusation is well-founded or not, but I'm not really interested in the
internal arguments of a newsgroup I don't subscribe to - and I guess that
goes for most of the readers in the groups he's sent it to.
 
Mike Stevens <michael.stevens@which.net> wrote:

> Ed Conrad wrote:
> > <
> > ATTENTION:
> > DAVID IAIN GREIG
> > MODERATOR, TALK.ORIGINS
> > <
> > Maybe you should read your own charter. I think it's time YOU
> > played by talk.origins' own rules.

>
> I wonder why Ed saw fit to cross-post this to four different newsgroups,
> none of which is the one he's complaining about. I don't know whether his
> accusation is well-founded or not, but I'm not really interested in the
> internal arguments of a newsgroup I don't subscribe to - and I guess that
> goes for most of the readers in the groups he's sent it to.


It should also be noted that talk.origins doesn't have a foundation
charter - it has a moderation charter only. And the moderator is working
within its boundaries.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."
 
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:58:16 -0400, Mike Stevens wrote
(in article <5g154nF3ddcvhU1@mid.individual.net>):

> Ed Conrad wrote:
>> <
>> ATTENTION:
>> DAVID IAIN GREIG
>> MODERATOR, TALK.ORIGINS
>> <
>> Maybe you should read your own charter. I think it's time YOU
>> played by talk.origins' own rules.

>
> I wonder why Ed saw fit to cross-post this to four different newsgroups,
> none of which is the one he's complaining about. I don't know whether his
> accusation is well-founded or not, but I'm not really interested in the
> internal arguments of a newsgroup I don't subscribe to - and I guess that
> goes for most of the readers in the groups he's sent it to.
>
>
>


Because he just got banned from t.o after changing his nym twice in under 24
hours, the last time to directly poke at the moderator. He also got the
moderator pissed off enough that said moderator sent a note to Ed's ISP
requesting that he be ToSed.

I don't think that Ed has got the point.

--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
 
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:58:16 +0100, "Mike Stevens"
<michael.stevens@which.net> wrote:

>Ed Conrad wrote:
>> <
>> ATTENTION:
>> DAVID IAIN GREIG
>> MODERATOR, TALK.ORIGINS
>> <
>> Maybe you should read your own charter. I think it's time YOU
>> played by talk.origins' own rules.

>
>I wonder why Ed saw fit to cross-post this to four different newsgroups,
>none of which is the one he's complaining about. I don't know whether his
>accusation is well-founded or not, but I'm not really interested in the
>internal arguments of a newsgroup I don't subscribe to - and I guess that
>goes for most of the readers in the groups he's sent it to.
>
>

That's Ed's MO. He just changed the list of cross posting newsgroups.
I bet the genealogy people are happy about that.
--
John Duncan Yoyo
------------------------------o)
Save the Cheerleader-
Collect the whole set.
 
On Jul 16, 7:58 am, "Mike Stevens" <michael.stev...@which.net> wrote:
> Ed Conrad wrote:
> > <
> > ATTENTION:
> > DAVID IAIN GREIG
> > MODERATOR, TALK.ORIGINS
> > <
> > Maybe you should read your own charter. I think it's time YOU
> > played by talk.origins' own rules.

>
> I wonder why Ed saw fit to cross-post this to four different newsgroups,
> none of which is the one he's complaining about. I don't know whether his
> accusation is well-founded or not, but I'm not really interested in the
> internal arguments of a newsgroup I don't subscribe to - and I guess that
> goes for most of the readers in the groups he's sent it to.


------------- GOOGLE GROUPS IN VIOLATION ...

.... of its ... violations! While allowing Obwon, Harry Hope, and a
few other posters to simultaneously post up to four pages of different
posts, I get cut off, like today, after ONE POST! And even after a
half-hour, my stuff is not online.

And Google NEVER responds to complaints about this ****!

What can we do?

(I'm foolishly assuming this will be posted.)

-------------
 
jismquiff said:

<snip>
>
> ------------- GOOGLE GROUPS IN VIOLATION ...
>
> ... of its ... violations! While allowing Obwon, Harry Hope, and a
> few other posters to simultaneously post up to four pages of different
> posts, I get cut off, like today, after ONE POST! And even after a
> half-hour, my stuff is not online.
>
> And Google NEVER responds to complaints about this ****!
>
> What can we do?


You can killfile any article emanating from Google's servers (and then
mod up any Google users whom you nevertheless consider to be clueful).

If Google users realise they are becoming pariahs because their abusive
brethren are not being disciplined, they will either put pressure on
Google to change its ways, or move to another provider. Either outcome
works for the rest of us.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
 
In article <8olm93dc6pmrab8g7rvd6q50enmq8qgtig@4ax.com>,
Ed Conrad <edconrad@verizon.net> wrote:

> <
> ATTENTION:
> DAVID IAIN GREIG
> MODERATOR, TALK.ORIGINS
> <
> Maybe you should read your own charter. I think it's time YOU
> played by talk.origins' own rules.
> <
> All you have allowed in talk.origins for years is evolution
> propaganda. Anyone possessing the physical evidence
> that evolution is bullcrap...




....is totally imaginary, just like those possessing the physical
evidence that the earth is flat.
 
On Jul 17, 11:13?pm, Richard Heathfield <r...@see.sig.invalid> wrote:
> jismquiff said:


> > ------------- GOOGLE GROUPS IN VIOLATION ...

>
> > ... of its ... violations! While allowing Obwon, Harry Hope, and a
> > few other posters to simultaneously post up to four pages of different
> > posts, I get cut off, like today, after ONE POST! And even after a
> > half-hour, my stuff is not online.

>
> > And Google NEVER responds to complaints about this ****!

>
> > What can we do?


> You can killfile any article emanating from Google's servers (and then
> mod up any Google users whom you nevertheless consider to be clueful).


Isn't the above poster saying he actually uses Google himself,
though?
Google have been having a spot of bother for the last couple of days,
but they seem to be getting it sorted now. Nothing to go killfiling
anyone about.

CCA
 
CCA said:

> On Jul 17, 11:13?pm, Richard Heathfield <r...@see.sig.invalid> wrote:
>> jismquiff said:

>
>> > ------------- GOOGLE GROUPS IN VIOLATION ...

>>
>> > ... of its ... violations! While allowing Obwon, Harry Hope, and
>> > a few other posters to simultaneously post up to four pages of
>> > different
>> > posts, I get cut off, like today, after ONE POST! And even after
>> > a half-hour, my stuff is not online.

>>
>> > And Google NEVER responds to complaints about this ****!

>>
>> > What can we do?

>
>> You can killfile any article emanating from Google's servers (and
>> then mod up any Google users whom you nevertheless consider to be
>> clueful).

>
> Isn't the above poster saying he actually uses Google himself,
> though?


Er, so?

> Google have been having a spot of bother for the last couple of days,
> but they seem to be getting it sorted now. Nothing to go killfiling
> anyone about.


Oh, my dear chap, it isn't their spot of bother that is the issue as far
as I'm concerned - it's their complete and utter refusal to deal
effectively with their abusive users. "Google NEVER responds to
complaints..." was what caught my eye.

If you want me to read /all/ the words in an article before offering an
opinion, that costs extra (except on Buy-One-Opinion-Get-One-Free
Mondays).

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -www. +rjh@
Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
 

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