The real progressive mind revealed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/02/naacp-left-groups-form-tea-party-tracking-site/?test=latestnews

A new website sponsored by the NAACP and left-leaning media operations is seeking videographers and bloggers who will search out "racism" and "extremism" among Tea Partiers.

Teapartytracker.org will feature tweets, interviews with people at rallies, blog entries and a picture of a t-shirt they say someone spotted at a rally that reads "Blacks own slaves in Mauitania, Sudan, Niger & Haiti."

The site, sponsored by the NAACP, Think Progress, New Left Media and Media Matters for America, will monitor "racism and other forms of extremism within the Tea Party movement. We call on the Tea Party to repudiate extremists among their ranks and join in civil dialogue with all Americans."

The NAACP and other groups have accused the Tea Party of several instances of racism, including spitting on a black congressman, Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Mo., on Capitol Hill as he went to vote for the health care bill.

Whether the spitting incident, which was caught on tape, was intentional remains subject to debate. Nonetheless, the narrative has remained a continuing theme of Tea Party critics.

The site's logo is also an old aphorism, apparently meant to suggest that monitoring the Tea Party will prevent the group from becoming more effective. "A watched teapot never boils," it reads.

The site's success will likely be measured in the "gotcha" moments it can accumulate that aim to embarrass or undermine the Tea Party movement. The submissions will most often come from citizen journalists, who have grown in form and fashion since Sen. George Allen of Virginia was ousted from his Senate seat in 1996 after his "macaca" moment.

At that time, a videographer sent by his opponent's campaign caught Allen using what critics later explained was an obscure racial slur. Allen's campaign sank afterward, and his Democratic opponent, Jim Webb, won the seat.

The fear of gotcha moments most recently forced Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., to try to close a Tea Party meeting to media in order to allow people to speak freely. But Tea Partiers who attended the 90-minute event Wednesday in North Charleston City Hall told the Charleston Press and Courier that they were fine with media coverage.

"This stuff does happen, and it's stupid," Kelly McBride, a senior faculty member with the Poynter Institute in Florida, reportedly said. "Who isn't a reporter these days?"

So instead of being concerned with serving the majority of Americans, the progressives are only concerned with trying to paint all tea party members with the brish of racisism.......Even if they have to create the information themselves and recent news show that some progressives are even going under cover, pretending to be members of the tea party movement and instead displaying the very negative signes and such themselves so they can later claim all the members of meetings are racists.

A great example is the teacher Jason Levin who admitted to doing things just like that, even trying to steal social security numbers and anything else he could use to attack tea party members.

This guy and his fellow progressives are so bad they even spread false stories that a radical Sarah Palin supporter was responsible for the times square attempted bombing and painted all tea party members as radical, government hating wackos.

Of course I do believe there are a few weirdos who want to tag along with the tea party movement, any large grouping of people for a cause will attract a couple fringe lunatics here and there. But the reality there will be a couple idiots involved does not mean "ALL" or even most of the people who are attending the functions must believe what the wacko in the group says.

I believe it is pure cowardice that drives these progressives to ignore the will of the people. Progressives lie, distort, and expand on insignificant isolated idiots for only one reason, to avoid facing the reality that almost all of these people speaking out are good Americans who are just concerned with the direction of our current political shifts. Most are concerned with this administration driving away private sector jobs and creating new costly entitlements we don't have the money to pay for. Most are concerned with a federal governemnt that sets aside contract laws to take over car companies then turn around and give part ownership of the companies to the same Union people who donated millions to Obama's campaign.

In what way was giving big Unions an exemption from the new taxes on "Cadillac health plans" helping all Americans? These Union members already make way more money then the National average and have things like healthcare so why is giving them a free pass on new taxes considered a needed part of healthcare reform? This is the kind of thing the average tea party member is concerned with.

But the progressives can't face that truth, if they were honest even they would find these kinds of deals repulsive, but they are not allowed to be honest, they must follow the party line and blindly support the progressive agenda, these little deals are just the necessary evils to get their socialist agenda put into place.....baby steps.

When did everyone who disagrees with you stop being a liberal and became a progressive?

progressive = liberal = socialist = democrat

Based on current American political trends and definitions. The really interesting part is even some Republicans and Libritarians are very progressive, even Bush leaned very progressive in his last two years in office.

Conservative : a person who is reluctant to change or consider new ideas; conformist

Sounds about right.. if they had their way we'd still be getting our fire from lightning..

Conservative : a person who is reluctant to change or consider new ideas; conformist

 

 

Sounds about right.. if they had their way we'd still be getting our fire from lightning..

And that right there is why I ignore most of what you say Wez, all you ever do is attack, insult, and lie just to try and start arguements, for whatever reason, you thrive on the drama and strife.

You asked about definitions and based on current understand of what a conservative is, they are people who are concerned with the out of control spending progressives love to conduct. We also love people and desire folks to get help "they need" but we balance that desire with common sense and understanding that money does not grow on trees. Consevatives tend to be truly religious, and their groups donate more to charitable causes than any progressive would ever dream of doing so there is no question that conservatives want to help people.

The problem with progressives is they don't understand they can't tax, tax, tax their way into making everyone equal to everyone else. Well, they don't want to be equal either, they want to take away from everyone else to give to themselves so how is their greed any better than the greed they attack in the business owner? The problem is the average person who votes progressive does not actually pay any taxes, they are voting for increased taxes they themselves will never have to pay because they won't ever try to create their own company or employ workers.

Answer me this question Wez, if you progressives successfully eliminate the "rich" who will you work for? There will always be someone who is "rich" compared to you up to the point you guys tear it all down like what is starting to happen in California. When all the employers are out of business or move their business, what then Wez? Go live in the woods?

When did everyone who disagrees with you stop being a liberal and became a progressive?

 

progressive = liberal = socialist = democrat

 

 

Based on current American political trends and definitions. The really interesting part is even some Republicans and Libritarians are very progressive, even Bush leaned very progressive in his last two years in office.

That's so weird..in Canada...we have the progressive Conservative Party, the Liberal Party, The Dems, and then a bunch of small powerless ones (aka the Green Party). Liberals never win very many seats. In Alberta progressive Conservative always take majority, and Dems are usually the rest of Canada. So in the states all our groups are essentially the same thing? I'm confused on the definitions all the time. The things you say are all one and the same are totally different here.

When did everyone who disagrees with you stop being a liberal and became a progressive?

 

progressive = liberal = socialist = democrat

 

 

Based on current American political trends and definitions. The really interesting part is even some Republicans and Libritarians are very progressive, even Bush leaned very progressive in his last two years in office.

 

That's so weird..in Canada...we have the progressive Conservative Party, the Liberal Party, The Dems, and then a bunch of small powerless ones (aka the Green Party). Liberals never win very many seats. In Alberta progressive Conservative always take majority, and Dems are usually the rest of Canada. So in the states all our groups are essentially the same thing? I'm confused on the definitions all the time. The things you say are all one and the same are totally different here.

It's confusing because although TJ thinks he knows it all, it's quite the opposite. He just loves to lump and label. Especially those with opposing views from his. Take all he says with a grain of salt, as usual.

God help us all, if the world ever PROGRESSED.

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And that right there is why I ignore most of what you say Wez, all you ever do is attack, insult, and lie just to try and start arguements, for whatever reason, you thrive on the drama and strife.

You call yourself a conservative.. I posted a definition from dictionary.com.. attack? insult? .. Your perception.. Lie? Where? Post one thing I ever lied about in all the years you've known me.. I have no reason to lie about anything.. I think you're talking about yourself again..

You asked about definitions and based on current understand of what a conservative is, they are people who are concerned with the out of control spending progressives love to conduct. We also love people and desire folks to get help "they need" but we balance that desire with common sense and understanding that money does not grow on trees. Consevatives tend to be truly religious, and their groups donate more to charitable causes than any progressive would ever dream of doing so there is no question that conservatives want to help people.

No.. I asked when everyone who disagrees with you became a progressive rather than a liberal.. Not for your definitions of your favorite labels.. You label yourself conservative.. fine.. but you label everyone else.. how about ya let them label themselves, commie.

The problem with progressives is they don't understand they can't tax, tax, tax their way into making everyone equal to everyone else. Well, they don't want to be equal either, they want to take away from everyone else to give to themselves so how is their greed any better than the greed they attack in the business owner? The problem is the average person who votes progressive does not actually pay any taxes, they are voting for increased taxes they themselves will never have to pay because they won't ever try to create their own company or employ workers.

How did this happen with a Conservative President for 20 of the last 30 years?

Answer me this question Wez, if you progressives successfully eliminate the "rich" who will you work for? There will always be someone who is "rich" compared to you up to the point you guys tear it all down like what is starting to happen in California. When all the employers are out of business or move their business, what then Wez? Go live in the woods?

Who wants to eliminate the "rich"? Certainly not me.. I just happen to think that everyone who works is an important part of making our society function and deserves to make a living wage.

Who's "you guys"?

When did everyone who disagrees with you stop being a liberal and became a progressive?

 

progressive = liberal = socialist = democrat

 

 

Based on current American political trends and definitions. The really interesting part is even some Republicans and Libritarians are very progressive, even Bush leaned very progressive in his last two years in office.

 

That's so weird..in Canada...we have the progressive Conservative Party, the Liberal Party, The Dems, and then a bunch of small powerless ones (aka the Green Party). Liberals never win very many seats. In Alberta progressive Conservative always take majority, and Dems are usually the rest of Canada. So in the states all our groups are essentially the same thing? I'm confused on the definitions all the time. The things you say are all one and the same are totally different here.

 

It's confusing because although TJ thinks he knows it all, it's quite the opposite. He just loves to lump and label. Especially those with opposing views from his. Take all he says with a grain of salt, as usual.

I point out how things actually work out, not how people "want" them to turn out.

At the end of the day the Democrats do individually have many differences, I have never tried to say otherwise, but also at the end of the day they will fall into line and vote for the progressive garbage like the healthcare bill.

So based on "RESULTS" they are all the same.

That is why I give hugo a hard time about being an obstructionist radical conservative, his actions to tear down anyone who is not a radical like himself actually hurts conservative ideas and helps get people like Obama elected into the Whitehouse. The "RESULTS" of his work is to help progressives.

God help us all, if the world ever PROGRESSED.

.

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Tell me something Bender, how was giving the Unions an exception to the new tax on "Cadillac health plans" progress?

While we don't agree on much most of my complaints about you stem from your inability to answer a direct question as to why you support these progressive ideas, so tell me Bender, why was this special deal for big labor Unions good for all Americans?

Don't beat around the bush, don't make excuses, give us what you believe to be a sound reason for excluding a UAW member from the new tax but imposing the new tax on someone else who is not in a big Union that gave Obama campaign funds.

Wez, I have to say your intentional dodging the points to start fights used to work but I am beyond your need to fight just for the sake of a fight. People already have a living wage, they are alive right? You progressives don't want a living wage, you want to rape the people who take all the risks. Did you know for me to pay a guy 40k a year I have to in turn spend about 70k a year after all the Government mandates and such? Yes, everyone working is important, but to work you need a job, and a job is created by peopel who invest money to make money, if you take away the ability to make money, why would anyone want to put their money at risk?

Again, just look at California, that is the result of progressive politics and the tax, tax, tax without logic or responsibility mindset.

You want what "you" believe to be a living wage?

Then go out and EARN it. Don't support a Government that takes away what I earned and then gives it to you just because your unhappy that I make more money than you.

When did everyone who disagrees with you stop being a liberal and became a progressive?

 

progressive = liberal = socialist = democrat

 

 

Based on current American political trends and definitions. The really interesting part is even some Republicans and Libritarians are very progressive, even Bush leaned very progressive in his last two years in office.

 

That's so weird..in Canada...we have the progressive Conservative Party, the Liberal Party, The Dems, and then a bunch of small powerless ones (aka the Green Party). Liberals never win very many seats. In Alberta progressive Conservative always take majority, and Dems are usually the rest of Canada. So in the states all our groups are essentially the same thing? I'm confused on the definitions all the time. The things you say are all one and the same are totally different here.

The original liberals were those who wished for limited government. In much of the rest of the world it retains this meaning. In the United States those who favored socialist and/or wealth transfer economic policies basically stole the liberal brand from those who wished for limited government. Thus in the US libertarian (sometimes referred to as classical liberal) became the word for those of us who believe that the government that governs best governs least.

I point out how things actually work out, not how people "want" them to turn out.

 

At the end of the day the Democrats do individually have many differences, I have never tried to say otherwise, but also at the end of the day they will fall into line and vote for the progressive garbage like the healthcare bill.

 

So based on "RESULTS" they are all the same.

 

That is why I give hugo a hard time about being an obstructionist radical conservative, his actions to tear down anyone who is not a radical like himself actually hurts conservative ideas and helps get people like Obama elected into the Whitehouse. The "RESULTS" of his work is to help progressives.

You point out nothing but radical ideas that your sh t doesn't stink, that you know everything there is to know and that you are superior to everyone under the sun.. You judge, label, and look down on people and accuse them of EVERYTHING that you do and are if they disagree with you in any way, shape or form..

It's sick sh t that has nothing to do with political affiliations..

The "RESULTS" of your work gave us "conservative" Presidents for 20 of the last 30 years and a mountain of debt and the worst foreign relations in the history of our country.. well done.

Wez, I have to say your intentional dodging the points to start fights used to work but I am beyond your need to fight just for the sake of a fight. People already have a living wage, they are alive right? You progressives don't want a living wage, you want to rape the people who take all the risks. Did you know for me to pay a guy 40k a year I have to in turn spend about 70k a year after all the Government mandates and such? Yes, everyone working is important, but to work you need a job, and a job is created by peopel who invest money to make money, if you take away the ability to make money, why would anyone want to put their money at risk?

What points did I dodge? I'm not a "you progressives".. I'm wez..an individual human being with my own mind..

Again, just look at California, that is the result of progressive politics and the tax, tax, tax without logic or responsibility mindset.

 

You want what "you" believe to be a living wage?

 

Then go out and EARN it. Don't support a Government that takes away what I earned and then gives it to you just because your unhappy that I make more money than you.

Apparently you want what "you" believe to be a living wage for everyone but yourself .. and that means being alive? I got no problem with that.. if that's the road we choose.. then a house and basic living expenses need to be affordable to a slave.. simple economics.. you want customers.. gonna have to meet their ability to pay.. Can't keeping printing money and creating debt forever..

I could give a flying f ck how much money you make.. I have all I need and always have.. more than I need.. I've always gone out and EARNED it.. Never have I got any money from any government program.. unlike all the "rich" bankers, insurers, conglomerate home builders, defense contractors, and Wall Street Tycoons..

I owned a business for 11 years before going back to school TJ.. Now.. I'm a practicing, employed RN.. what the f ck are you talking about?

I don't support a government that condones slavery.. matter of fact, I support little of what my government has done throughout my lifetime.. no friends of mine..

Get your facts straight before you attribute them to me..

Looks like Bender is dodging direct questions again, so let's take away the possible excuse of "I didn't see the question:

God help us all, if the world ever PROGRESSED.

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Tell me something Bender, how was giving the Unions an exception to the new tax on "Cadillac health plans" progress?

While we don't agree on much most of my complaints about you stem from your inability to answer a direct question as to why you support these progressive ideas, so tell me Bender, why was this special deal for big labor Unions good for all Americans?

Don't beat around the bush, don't make excuses, give us what you believe to be a sound reason for excluding a UAW member from the new tax but imposing the new tax on someone else who is not in a big Union that gave Obama campaign funds.

So Wez, your a socialist now because you lost your own business? You bitter about not 'making it' so you now want to make everyone else go out of business?

Me and millions of other people run our own businesses and all we want is for the Government to ease up and let us succeed.

Did you know that more hard assessets are now being held still in non-interest bearing accounts than ever before in America? Do you know why people are sitting on their money? Uncertainty, people are scared to invest because they don't know what the rules are going to be under this President. Tax cuts, tax increases, changes in mandates and regulations for operating a business, all sorts of questions are still laying on the table and many promises from the progressive elite to further punish those who want to be in business is making sure they will not stop sitting on their money until they can feel more positive about being able to not be punished.

So Wez, your a socialist now because you lost your own business? You bitter about not 'making it' so you now want to make everyone else go out of business

No TJ.. I sold my business when I went back to school because I wanted to become a licensed RN.. started school debt free.. graduated school debt free.. still debt free.. what the f ck are you talking about? I get enough income in interest every month off my savings alone to pay all my monthly bills.. I envy no one.. especially you.

Are you bitter that your business is failing and wanna blame it on the government? Maybe you and the other big shots shoulda shared the wealth a little more so your business wouldn't now be floundering..

So Wez, your a socialist now because you lost your own business? You bitter about not 'making it' so you now want to make everyone else go out of business

No TJ.. I sold my business when I went back to school because I wanted to become a licensed RN.. started school debt free.. graduated school debt free.. still debt free.. what the f ck are you talking about? I get enough income in interest every month off my savings alone to pay all my monthly bills.. I envy no one.. especially you.

 

Are you bitter that your business is failing and wanna blame it on the government? Maybe you and the other big shots shoulda shared the wealth a little more so your business wouldn't now be floundering..

Well sh t, I envy you.

So Wez, your a socialist now because you lost your own business? You bitter about not 'making it' so you now want to make everyone else go out of business

No TJ.. I sold my business when I went back to school because I wanted to become a licensed RN.. started school debt free.. graduated school debt free.. still debt free.. what the f ck are you talking about? I get enough income in interest every month off my savings alone to pay all my monthly bills.. I envy no one.. especially you.

 

Are you bitter that your business is failing and wanna blame it on the government? Maybe you and the other big shots shoulda shared the wealth a little more so your business wouldn't now be floundering..

Well sh t, I envy you.

He is single. Ain't got no vagina bill.

When did everyone who disagrees with you stop being a liberal and became a progressive?

 

progressive = liberal = socialist = democrat

 

 

Based on current American political trends and definitions. The really interesting part is even some Republicans and Libritarians are very progressive, even Bush leaned very progressive in his last two years in office.

No. No no no no no no no. So, so wrong.

Progressive: favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.

Liberal: favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

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Ok, those two are pretty much the same.

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Socialist: an advocate or supporter of socialism.

Socialism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Democrat: an advocate of democracy.

Democracy: government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

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So no. They aren't the same. Liberal and Progressive were pretty close, so I'll give you that one. But "progressive" doesn't mean "socialist" or "democrat", and so forth.

You asked about definitions and based on current understand of what a conservative is, they are people who are concerned with the out of control spending progressives love to conduct.

Yep, you know us. Just crazily wanting to spend money without cutting a thing. Fun fact: I hate how easy it is for people to get SSI. I think the restrictions should be way more expanded. As in, add more of them. So hey, stop paying money to lazy assholes who do nothing but live off of us so we could fund a school or something. That's moving forward

We also love people and desire folks to get help "they need" but we balance that desire with common sense and understanding that money does not grow on trees.

Are you implying I hate people? Not that I identify as a progressive, mind you, but you lump me into there and make it sound as if I'm not a big fan of people.

Conservatives tend to be truly religious, and their groups donate more to charitable causes than any progressive would ever dream of doing so there is no question that conservatives want to help people.

Conservatives are beautiful. They are beings made of the purest light energy. They spread love across nations, and build homes for the homeless Liberals. They also sh!t kittens and piss rainbows. They have evolved beyond us. They give all of their money to charity, which is OK, because as beings of pure light, they need no food to survive. And they can bend space/time, so they can teleport, so they don't need cars or gas.

The problem with progressives is they don't understand they can't tax, tax, tax their way into making everyone equal to everyone else.

Uh...what? Honest question: Are you saying we shouldn't tax the rich more than the poor? I don't mean taxing them 50% of their income or something ridiculous, I mean proportionally. Let's say, I get 1/3rd of my check taken out for taxes. Assuming I pull down 900 a check, I give them 300. So a rich fellow makes (in the same period of time) 9k. I believe they should take 3k of that for taxes. That seems fair.

Well, they don't want to be equal either, they want to take away from everyone else to give to themselves so how is their greed any better than the greed they attack in the business owner?

We do? Personally, I never once advocated anything like that. I don't believe everything should be given to me at the loss of others. We should all get government services equally.

The problem is the average person who votes progressive does not actually pay any taxes, they are voting for increased taxes they themselves will never have to pay because they won't ever try to create their own company or employ workers.

I probably won't ever try that, you're right. I, again, think businesses should be paying proportionate sums. Small business pays x%, big business pays x%. Which is necessary if we're going to actually fund government services, like schools and firefighters and the like.

Now, I will admit wanting to give a small business a break on taxes the first couple of years it's open, just to figure out revenue and things, get the ball rolling, etc. But they will have to pay them back (x+10% or something) after that to make up for it, until it's even again. Now, there would be problems with this system, and you can argue that it's not equal, and it's not. At first, anyway. But if it allowed them to employ a few more people, pay off some debts, and get the ball rolling, etc, etc, it would be beneficial to their local economy, and eventually nationally if enough small businesses were able to do such things. Big business is already there. And in the end, they end up paying the same proportion after a few years anyway. Just an idea.

So Wez, your a socialist now because you lost your own business? You bitter about not 'making it' so you now want to make everyone else go out of business

No TJ.. I sold my business when I went back to school because I wanted to become a licensed RN.. started school debt free.. graduated school debt free.. still debt free.. what the f ck are you talking about? I get enough income in interest every month off my savings alone to pay all my monthly bills.. I envy no one.. especially you.

 

Are you bitter that your business is failing and wanna blame it on the government? Maybe you and the other big shots shoulda shared the wealth a little more so your business wouldn't now be floundering..

Well sh t, I envy you.

He is single. Ain't got no vagina bill.

If it weren't for getting laid, I'd envy him there, too!

So no. They aren't the same. Liberal and Progressive were pretty close, so I'll give you that one. But "progressive" doesn't mean "socialist" or "democrat", and so forth.

You have to pay attention, I said I was basing this on current political trends, not their definitions.

Progressives were all behind this free healthcare deal, they have taken over most of the car industry and the banking industry, the slow steps of the progressives are to have the Federal Government eventually own or strictly control everything in America, that my friend is socialist.

Name one area of American life that is not regulated or touched by the Federal Government Joker?

Yep, you know us. Just crazily wanting to spend money without cutting a thing. Fun fact: I hate how easy it is for people to get SSI. I think the restrictions should be way more expanded. As in, add more of them. So hey, stop paying money to lazy assholes who do nothing but live off of us so we could fund a school or something. That's moving forward

Give me an example of a progressive cutting spending on a social program in recent years.

I can't think of an example myself, but I can think of things like this new entitlement where people get free healthcare in America just for being in America. Sounds pretty progressive right? And passed exclusively by progressives/liberals/socialists......

Are you implying I hate people? Not that I identify as a progressive, mind you, but you lump me into there and make it sound as if I'm not a big fan of people.

What? Please take the time to actually read what I post so you don't have to run down the wrong street of conversation.

Progressives pretend they pass all these entitlements because they care about the poor and they claim conservatives do not support the programs because we hate the poor. My comment was that we care too, but we balance our care with the reality that money is not endless, it has limits, and we have to be responsible enough to stay within those limits.

Uh...what? Honest question: Are you saying we shouldn't tax the rich more than the poor? I don't mean taxing them 50% of their income or something ridiculous, I mean proportionally. Let's say, I get 1/3rd of my check taken out for taxes. Assuming I pull down 900 a check, I give them 300. So a rich fellow makes (in the same period of time) 9k. I believe they should take 3k of that for taxes. That seems fair.

And right now we do tax the rich at 50% of their income while most Americans pay nothing in federal tax.

If you truly believe all Americans should pay a "fair share" of taxes then you should be a conservative.

We do? Personally, I never once advocated anything like that. I don't believe everything should be given to me at the loss of others. We should all get government services equally.

You mean like free healthcare?

I have no problem at all with a government maintaining a system of roads, having a standing military, and governing foreign trade, etc... but there is no foundation under the Constitution for the Federal Government to try and force "Social Justice" on America. We are promised equal opportunity, not equal results.

The progressives, liberals/socialists want to create one huge daycare center where everyone is protected and safe while they run the daycare as they see fit.

I probably won't ever try that, you're right. I, again, think businesses should be paying proportionate sums. Small business pays x%, big business pays x%. Which is necessary if we're going to actually fund government services, like schools and firefighters and the like.

 

Now, I will admit wanting to give a small business a break on taxes the first couple of years it's open, just to figure out revenue and things, get the ball rolling, etc. But they will have to pay them back (x+10% or something) after that to make up for it, until it's even again. Now, there would be problems with this system, and you can argue that it's not equal, and it's not. At first, anyway. But if it allowed them to employ a few more people, pay off some debts, and get the ball rolling, etc, etc, it would be beneficial to their local economy, and eventually nationally if enough small businesses were able to do such things. Big business is already there. And in the end, they end up paying the same proportion after a few years anyway. Just an idea.

A business does not pay taxes in reality. Taxes fall under the "cost of doing business". They place that in the column of overhead and add that cost into their price of goods or services to the consumer. So when you raise business taxes, you raise taxes on those people who do business with that company.

Consumers pay all taxes on business.

 

Progressives were all behind this free healthcare deal, they have taken over most of the car industry and the banking industry, the slow steps of the progressives are to have the Federal Government eventually own or strictly control everything in America, that my friend is socialist.

 

That, my friend, is conspiracy lunacy 101. Get a grip, TJ.

 

Progressives were all behind this free healthcare deal, they have taken over most of the car industry and the banking industry, the slow steps of the progressives are to have the Federal Government eventually own or strictly control everything in America, that my friend is socialist.

 

 

That, my friend, is conspiracy lunacy 101. Get a grip, TJ.

Really? I gave you some examples like taking over GM, setting aside contract law to reward the UAW and imposing their orders on how it will be run, the control of the banks and how they are pushing for the power to take over any company "they feel" needs to be taken over, that is not conspiracy, that is fact Builder.

One step at a time, right Builder?

What percentage of control must a Government have over these things for you to say we are already leaning socialist? In my opinion, creating massive legislation that spells out every move of an industry is the same thing as owning the industry. Call it a puppet industry for a better description....and Obama has the strings in his hands.

I will ask you the same question I asked Joker, can you name one industry in America that is not severely regulated and either directly or indirectly controlled by the Federal Government?

Progressives were all behind this free healthcare deal, they have taken over most of the car industry and the banking industry, the slow steps of the progressives are to have the Federal Government eventually own or strictly control everything in America, that my friend is socialist.

 

 

That, my friend, is conspiracy lunacy 101. Get a grip, TJ.

Hey pot, I'm kettle, says the 9/11 truther.

Progressives were all behind this free healthcare deal, they have taken over most of the car industry and the banking industry, the slow steps of the progressives are to have the Federal Government eventually own or strictly control everything in America, that my friend is socialist.

 

 

That, my friend, is conspiracy lunacy 101. Get a grip, TJ.

 

Hey pot, I'm kettle, says the 9/11 truther.

I always have a difficult time keeping that kind of thing straight, is Builder one of the people who believe Bush was a master mind who was so brilliant he ordered 9/11 to be done just to give him an excuse to wage wars and for not one piece of evidence or one person to come out and leak this to the press? I mean Bill Clinton could not get away with a blowj0b from miss piggy but these guys think Bush was that good?

Really? I thought even the 'man caused global warming' wackos were smart enough to see how that was already proven to be impossible. If Builder is "one of those" kind of crazy people, no wonder he is such a radical progressive, does he only use one sheet of toilet paper as well? I mean, that is what good humans do these days......Using more would be irresponsible to the world.

Progressives were all behind this free healthcare deal, they have taken over most of the car industry and the banking industry, the slow steps of the progressives are to have the Federal Government eventually own or strictly control everything in America, that my friend is socialist.

 

 

That, my friend, is conspiracy lunacy 101. Get a grip, TJ.

 

Hey pot, I'm kettle, says the 9/11 truther.

I always have a difficult time keeping that kind of thing straight, is Builder one of the people who believe Bush was a master mind who was so brilliant he ordered 9/11 to be done just to give him an excuse to wage wars and for not one piece of evidence or one person to come out and leak this to the press? I mean Bill Clinton could not get away with a blowj0b from miss piggy but these guys think Bush was that good?

 

 

Really? I thought even the 'man caused global warming' wackos were smart enough to see how that was already proven to be impossible. If Builder is "one of those" kind of crazy people, no wonder he is such a radical progressive, does he only use one sheet of toilet paper as well? I mean, that is what good humans do these days......Using more would be irresponsible to the world.

What, people didn't cause Global Warming? Damnit. All this driving around in my Hummer has just been a waste of gas then .

And I offer you this, TJ: If the government hadn't taken over GM and such where they were failing, wouldn't that have caused the economy to collapse even more, because of the lost jobs, among other things? And what about making the banks get their sh!t together? Seems like it might've been a good idea.