V
VanguardLH
Guest
nntp@microsoft.com wrote:
<snipped out the propaganda>
> This message is to inform you that Microsoft will soon begin discontinuing
> newsgroups and transitioning users to Microsoft forums.
>
> To this end, Microsoft will begin to progressively shift available
> resources to the forums technology and discontinue support for
> newsgroups.
>
> In addition to offering a compelling online browser experience, for those
> users who prefer to use an NNTP (newsgroup) reader to participate in the
> newsgroups community, we have developed a solution called the NNTP Bridge
> which allows a user to connect a variety of supported NNTP readers to the
> forums they would like to participate in and continue having the NTTP
> reader functionality. You can find instructions on how to download and
> set up the NNTP Bridge here: http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/
>
>
> Effective June 1, 2010 this newsgroup will be closed.
The feedback and discussion forums for the "Microsoft Forums NNTP Bridge"
proxy prove how unreliable is Microsoft's solution. It might work but then
stops working, it doesn't support the normal suite of NNTP commands, and a
myriad of other problems reported by users of this gateway. Reading their
forums shows that lots of users can't get their proxy working or keep it
working. Also, access is very s-l-o-w when using their client (as it is
when using their web interface).
Personally I have yet to get their proxy to even connect to their server.
Their proxy pukes with "Your profile was not found" despite creating an
active Microsoft Connect account (which you need to download their client)
and with a validated profile. Their instructions have you visit their
other forums to create yet another profile. You must create a forum
profile, not just a Connect profile. Below are their install instructions:
- Go to any of the online forums at http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/
and click "Sign in" in the upper right hand corner of the screen.
Understand the Windows Live ID is the same one that you want to use with
this Client. This is a onetime effort to create your online profile. You
don't need to do this every time you use this application. If you already
have a Windows Live ID that you have used to sign on to any of the forums
below then you can skip this step.
- When logged into forums, users need to click their "My Settings" ...
No matter which of their forum groups that I visit (MSDN, TechNet,
Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft), the only link to my profile settings is
"Create Profile". That has no "My Settings" page which is where you must
visit to enable the "NNTP bridge" access by their client. Their proxy is a
non-solution for me for NNTP-to-forum access. They don't have or are
currently missing the requisite pieces at their web site to enable access to
their web forums using their local client.
When I was logged in and tried to post a message ("Ask a Question"), I got
"Error 500: Sorry, we were unable to service your request. Please try again
later." or "Error 500: The page you are attempting to view is temporarily
unavailable due to system maintenance. Please try again later." depending on
which forum group (MSDN, TechNet, Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft) where
I was attempting to submit a post. Yeah, no big surprise that their web
forums are screwed up again, a long-time ailment of their webnews-for-boobs
interface, too, so maybe that's why I cannot get a "My Settings" page. Yep,
Microsoft sure has provided a reliable venue for community support ... NOT!
Even if an NNTP server goes down, I can always connect to a different one to
access a newsgroup.
It is also an ass-backwards solution. Forums that implement a
forum-to-Usenet gateway (aka a webnews interface) have the gateway run on
their forum's server which links to their NNTP server that peers to the mesh
network of other NNTP servers (aka Usenet). Instead Microsoft wants you to
install their proxy on your host (which is not configurable regarding its
listening port), figure out how to load it on Windows login (since they
don't do that setup), and reconfigure your newsreader to use this local
proxy. The gateway should be running up on their server to permit
standard NNTP access to their web-based forums. That this is how the rest
of the world provides a webnews interface but which eludes Microsoft on how
to implement a similar reliable solution. The reason Microsoft is
ass-backwards in their approach is that they want their local proxy to
authenticate to their server, something already provided in the NNTP
protocol but which Microsoft doesn't want to support (despite still doing so
for their private newsgroups). NNTP already has the necessary
authentication to provide login credentials for users to log into validated
accounts on the server. The NNTP server that I'm using to post here
requires me to authenticate (i.e., it is not an anonymous NNTP server and
instead requires me to login to the account that was created for only my use
on that server).
Be aware that Microsoft will demand more than just the install of their
"NNTP bridge" proxy to access their web-based forums. When you attempt to
download their installation file, you are required to also install their
"File Transfer Manager" program which handles the download. You may never
need it again but you'll waste the disk space leaving it on your host
because no entry gets added in the Add/Remove Programs applet in Control
Panel to let you uninstall this fluff that is no longer needed after
downloading their "NNTP bridge" proxy. Using something like Zsoft's
Uninstaller to monitor the install of FTM lets you later uninstall this
superfluous program (and the same for a clean uninstall of their proxy if
you decide you don't want to use it or find that you can't use it).
As I recall, the Start dialog (when you have to manually tell their proxy
client to make a connection) says this program isn't even created by
Microsoft. There was some message at the bottom of the dialog indicating
that Microsoft didn't create this program; however, some of the text was
cutoff because whoever coded this client didn't bother to make it a
DPI-aware program (I upped my DPI from the default of 96 to 120 to make use
of the higher resolution of my LCD monitor so text stays the same size and
also gets sharper).
Microsoft isn't scrambling away from Usenet because of problems with their
NNTP server. According to Microsoft, "The existing newsgroup platform
(NNTP) is running on an outdated version of Microsoft Exchange that has
reached its end-of-life and is no longer supported due to a business
decision taken by Microsoft many years ago. This makes it impossible to
enhance basic functionality, keep the platform secure and deliver a healthy
experience for you and our communities." Operating an NNTP server is not
rocket science as there are many one-person setups in operation worldwide
(I'm using one of them right now to post this message). The problem is with
Microsoft's interface beyond their NNTP server. Apparently the folks in
charge of the NNTP-to-forums interface don't have the budget to get a newer
version of Exchange from their own company.
So you get to install software for a NNTP-to-forum converter proxy despite
that NNTP already has the authentication needed to ensure users log into an
account that is allocated for only their use. This proxy doesn't support
the normal suite of NNTP commands. The interface is flaky. You need to
modify your profile up on their server to enable access via their proxy
client (if you can get at the "My Settings" page). The web-based forums are
slow which also means access using their NNTP-to-forum converter proxy will
also be slow. Oh joy, I just can't wait to devolve to dial-up speeds with
flaky access.
<snipped out the propaganda>
> This message is to inform you that Microsoft will soon begin discontinuing
> newsgroups and transitioning users to Microsoft forums.
>
> To this end, Microsoft will begin to progressively shift available
> resources to the forums technology and discontinue support for
> newsgroups.
>
> In addition to offering a compelling online browser experience, for those
> users who prefer to use an NNTP (newsgroup) reader to participate in the
> newsgroups community, we have developed a solution called the NNTP Bridge
> which allows a user to connect a variety of supported NNTP readers to the
> forums they would like to participate in and continue having the NTTP
> reader functionality. You can find instructions on how to download and
> set up the NNTP Bridge here: http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/
>
>
> Effective June 1, 2010 this newsgroup will be closed.
The feedback and discussion forums for the "Microsoft Forums NNTP Bridge"
proxy prove how unreliable is Microsoft's solution. It might work but then
stops working, it doesn't support the normal suite of NNTP commands, and a
myriad of other problems reported by users of this gateway. Reading their
forums shows that lots of users can't get their proxy working or keep it
working. Also, access is very s-l-o-w when using their client (as it is
when using their web interface).
Personally I have yet to get their proxy to even connect to their server.
Their proxy pukes with "Your profile was not found" despite creating an
active Microsoft Connect account (which you need to download their client)
and with a validated profile. Their instructions have you visit their
other forums to create yet another profile. You must create a forum
profile, not just a Connect profile. Below are their install instructions:
- Go to any of the online forums at http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/
and click "Sign in" in the upper right hand corner of the screen.
Understand the Windows Live ID is the same one that you want to use with
this Client. This is a onetime effort to create your online profile. You
don't need to do this every time you use this application. If you already
have a Windows Live ID that you have used to sign on to any of the forums
below then you can skip this step.
- When logged into forums, users need to click their "My Settings" ...
No matter which of their forum groups that I visit (MSDN, TechNet,
Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft), the only link to my profile settings is
"Create Profile". That has no "My Settings" page which is where you must
visit to enable the "NNTP bridge" access by their client. Their proxy is a
non-solution for me for NNTP-to-forum access. They don't have or are
currently missing the requisite pieces at their web site to enable access to
their web forums using their local client.
When I was logged in and tried to post a message ("Ask a Question"), I got
"Error 500: Sorry, we were unable to service your request. Please try again
later." or "Error 500: The page you are attempting to view is temporarily
unavailable due to system maintenance. Please try again later." depending on
which forum group (MSDN, TechNet, Expressions, Answers, or Microsoft) where
I was attempting to submit a post. Yeah, no big surprise that their web
forums are screwed up again, a long-time ailment of their webnews-for-boobs
interface, too, so maybe that's why I cannot get a "My Settings" page. Yep,
Microsoft sure has provided a reliable venue for community support ... NOT!
Even if an NNTP server goes down, I can always connect to a different one to
access a newsgroup.
It is also an ass-backwards solution. Forums that implement a
forum-to-Usenet gateway (aka a webnews interface) have the gateway run on
their forum's server which links to their NNTP server that peers to the mesh
network of other NNTP servers (aka Usenet). Instead Microsoft wants you to
install their proxy on your host (which is not configurable regarding its
listening port), figure out how to load it on Windows login (since they
don't do that setup), and reconfigure your newsreader to use this local
proxy. The gateway should be running up on their server to permit
standard NNTP access to their web-based forums. That this is how the rest
of the world provides a webnews interface but which eludes Microsoft on how
to implement a similar reliable solution. The reason Microsoft is
ass-backwards in their approach is that they want their local proxy to
authenticate to their server, something already provided in the NNTP
protocol but which Microsoft doesn't want to support (despite still doing so
for their private newsgroups). NNTP already has the necessary
authentication to provide login credentials for users to log into validated
accounts on the server. The NNTP server that I'm using to post here
requires me to authenticate (i.e., it is not an anonymous NNTP server and
instead requires me to login to the account that was created for only my use
on that server).
Be aware that Microsoft will demand more than just the install of their
"NNTP bridge" proxy to access their web-based forums. When you attempt to
download their installation file, you are required to also install their
"File Transfer Manager" program which handles the download. You may never
need it again but you'll waste the disk space leaving it on your host
because no entry gets added in the Add/Remove Programs applet in Control
Panel to let you uninstall this fluff that is no longer needed after
downloading their "NNTP bridge" proxy. Using something like Zsoft's
Uninstaller to monitor the install of FTM lets you later uninstall this
superfluous program (and the same for a clean uninstall of their proxy if
you decide you don't want to use it or find that you can't use it).
As I recall, the Start dialog (when you have to manually tell their proxy
client to make a connection) says this program isn't even created by
Microsoft. There was some message at the bottom of the dialog indicating
that Microsoft didn't create this program; however, some of the text was
cutoff because whoever coded this client didn't bother to make it a
DPI-aware program (I upped my DPI from the default of 96 to 120 to make use
of the higher resolution of my LCD monitor so text stays the same size and
also gets sharper).
Microsoft isn't scrambling away from Usenet because of problems with their
NNTP server. According to Microsoft, "The existing newsgroup platform
(NNTP) is running on an outdated version of Microsoft Exchange that has
reached its end-of-life and is no longer supported due to a business
decision taken by Microsoft many years ago. This makes it impossible to
enhance basic functionality, keep the platform secure and deliver a healthy
experience for you and our communities." Operating an NNTP server is not
rocket science as there are many one-person setups in operation worldwide
(I'm using one of them right now to post this message). The problem is with
Microsoft's interface beyond their NNTP server. Apparently the folks in
charge of the NNTP-to-forums interface don't have the budget to get a newer
version of Exchange from their own company.
So you get to install software for a NNTP-to-forum converter proxy despite
that NNTP already has the authentication needed to ensure users log into an
account that is allocated for only their use. This proxy doesn't support
the normal suite of NNTP commands. The interface is flaky. You need to
modify your profile up on their server to enable access via their proxy
client (if you can get at the "My Settings" page). The web-based forums are
slow which also means access using their NNTP-to-forum converter proxy will
also be slow. Oh joy, I just can't wait to devolve to dial-up speeds with
flaky access.