Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

I thought America was a REPUBLIC??

She's at it again, folks. Hillary Rodham is going to give us

all of the details for her grand plan to bring the United

States into line with the rest of the socialized medicine world.

Rodham will tell us that her plan is going to cost around

$110 billion a year. That's a lie ... and she knows it's a

lie. Take a look at every medical-related spending program

out there, from Medicare on .. and you'll find that the

politicians who brought us these programs flat-out lied when

they told us how much they would cost. Hillary's $110

billion a year will become $300 billion an year and more

before her husband makes his next conquest.

Make no mistake. Every single politician in Washington knows

that the surest way to make affordable health care available

to every single American is through the private sector. They

know that eliminating the regulations that stifle

competition, and getting rid of insurance mandates that

drive up the cost of even the most basic policies would

bring millions of the uninsured back into the ranks of the

fully insured. They know that giving individuals the same

tax treatment for buying their own health insurance policies

that their employers get providing those policies for them

would solve much our problem with the uninsured. The know

all of these things .. .but they also know one more very

important fact. With every private sector solution

introduced into our health care system politicians and

government lose power ... and that just cannot be permitted.

The goal of these politicians is not to bring you health

care. Their goal is to make you more dependent on government

.... and them.

"When I'm president, privatization is off the table because

it's not the answer to anything."

Hillary Rodham, September 3, 2007 AARP Legislative Conference.

Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

On Sep 17, 9:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I thought America was a REPUBLIC??

>

> She's at it again, folks. Hillary Rodham is going to give us

> all of the details for her grand plan to bring the United

> States into line with the rest of the socialized medicine world.

>

> Rodham will tell us that her plan is going to cost around

> $110 billion a year. That's a lie ... and she knows it's a

> lie. Take a look at every medical-related spending program

> out there, from Medicare on .. and you'll find that the

> politicians who brought us these programs flat-out lied when

> they told us how much they would cost. Hillary's $110

> billion a year will become $300 billion an year and more

> before her husband makes his next conquest.

>

> Make no mistake. Every single politician in Washington knows

> that the surest way to make affordable health care available

> to every single American is through the private sector. They

> know that eliminating the regulations that stifle

> competition, and getting rid of insurance mandates that

> drive up the cost of even the most basic policies would

> bring millions of the uninsured back into the ranks of the

> fully insured. They know that giving individuals the same

> tax treatment for buying their own health insurance policies

> that their employers get providing those policies for them

> would solve much our problem with the uninsured. The know

> all of these things .. .but they also know one more very

> important fact. With every private sector solution

> introduced into our health care system politicians and

> government lose power ... and that just cannot be permitted.

>

> The goal of these politicians is not to bring you health

> care. Their goal is to make you more dependent on government

> ... and them.

> "When I'm president, privatization is off the table because

> it's not the answer to anything."

>

> Hillary Rodham, September 3, 2007 AARP Legislative Conference.

>

> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

There was a time, as a former conservative Republican, when I would

have agreed with everything you said. BUT THAT TIME HAS PASSED

and I now understand that the attempt to smear UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

with the accusation of SOCIALISM will fail as people realize the

FALLACY that

such an accusation represents.

YOU MIGHT AS WELL ATTACK OUR "SOCIALIZED" EDUCATION SYSTEM

and explain to us how companies such as Neil Bush's "No Child Left

Behind"

initiative are somehow going to provide everyone in school an

education.

Is our current SOCIALIZED education system absolutely the best for

everyone ? Absolutely not. Would a private system be better ->

ABSOLUTELY NOT BECAUSE TENS OF MILLIONS OF KIDS WOULD GET NO EDUCATION

AT ALL - IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT, A RETURN TO THE WORLD OF A HUNDRED

YEARS AGO??????

Would you like to attack our SOCIALIZED postal system or SOCIALIZED

MILITARY SYSTEM - THERE ARE INDEED private companies waiting in the

wings to perform such services but I do not see you asking for the

U.S. Army to be replaced by Blackwater Inc.

AND THIS IS THE KEY POINT WHICH YOUR FOOLHARDY RELIANCE ON PRIVATE

INSURERS TOTALLY OVERLOOKS - that in the current system, over 47

million people have no health care coverage at all. In addition

doctors are furious that they must call some 800 number manned by a

clerk in some outsourced country in order to get PERMISSION to treat

the patient.

I WILL REPEAT THAT NUMBER IN CASE IT DID NOT SINK IN FOR YOU

47 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NO HEALTH CARE COVERAGE AT ALL.

TEXAS, THE HOME STATE OF OUR INEPT PRESIDENT BUSH, HAS THE HIGHEST

PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WITH NO HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

You are CORRECT on many of your points - there are indeed politicians

of a certain ILK whose main goal is to make us more and more dependent

on government services.

These controlling types are in BOTH parties and pretend to be

liberals, neo-cons, moderate Republicans and of many other factions.

NOW GET REAL and admit to yourself that in this, the greatest country

on earth,

how can we have the shame, the disgrace of NOT COVERING EVERYONE as

countries

such as Canada, England and France do. YES, of course their systems

are not perfect either but then again who said we have to COPY their

systems exactly.

And now, rather than consider me an opponent - let me show you how a

REFORMED HEALTH CARE SYSTEM COULD WORK:

A REFORMED HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT COVERS EVERYONE COULD WORK, either

with or without private insurers, if WE ALSO INSIST THAT THE ENTIRE

MEDICAL SYSTEM BE REFORMED - AND THIS MEANS BREAKING THE LOBBYIST HOLD

ON WASHINGTON, BREAKING THE DRUG COMPANY INFLUENCE ON MD'S MED SCHOOLS

AND THE FDA, BREAKING THE FDA CONNECTIONS WITH THE DRUG INDUSTRY,

OPENING THE MEDICAL FIELD FULLY TO ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE MODALITIES,

STOPPING THE OVER-RELIANCE ON UNNECESSARY MEDICAL TESTS, STOPPING

UNNECESSARY SURGERIES AND OPERATING ROOM PROCEDURES, ESTABLISH A

SYSTEM OF PREVENTATIVE HEALTH CARE...

these are just some of the things that really need to be brought up

in

a system of complete reform of our badly flawed current system.

So... your attack on so-called "socialized" medicine with its built in

hysteria,

while it may make you feel good, is really just another false fallacy

fostered

by the profiteer health care "insurers" and "providers" and

is of NO HELP in this process. NO help at all. It is a fallacy which

you yourself

must recognize before REAL health care reform can begin.

Thanks

Citizen Jimserac

SICKO SOCKS IT TO HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS THAT SUCK.

On Sep 17, 9:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I thought America was a REPUBLIC??

>

> She's at it again, folks. Hillary Rodham is going to give us

> all of the details for her grand plan to bring the United

> States into line with the rest of the socialized medicine world.

>

> Rodham will tell us that her plan is going to cost around

> $110 billion a year. That's a lie ... and she knows it's a

> lie. Take a look at every medical-related spending program

> out there, from Medicare on .. and you'll find that the

> politicians who brought us these programs flat-out lied when

> they told us how much they would cost. Hillary's $110

> billion a year will become $300 billion an year and more

> before her husband makes his next conquest.

>

> Make no mistake. Every single politician in Washington knows

> that the surest way to make affordable health care available

> to every single American is through the private sector. They

> know that eliminating the regulations that stifle

> competition, and getting rid of insurance mandates that

> drive up the cost of even the most basic policies would

> bring millions of the uninsured back into the ranks of the

> fully insured. They know that giving individuals the same

> tax treatment for buying their own health insurance policies

> that their employers get providing those policies for them

> would solve much our problem with the uninsured. The know

> all of these things .. .but they also know one more very

> important fact. With every private sector solution

> introduced into our health care system politicians and

> government lose power ... and that just cannot be permitted.

>

> The goal of these politicians is not to bring you health

> care. Their goal is to make you more dependent on government

> ... and them.

> "When I'm president, privatization is off the table because

> it's not the answer to anything."

>

> Hillary Rodham, September 3, 2007 AARP Legislative Conference.

>

> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

Universal coverage is the right idea, but Klintoon is not the person

for the job; Period. The sow made that perfectly clear while she took

it upon herself to adderess the matter back when her piece of shit

husband was president.

Capitalism works fine in some situations and in others, it is a

miserable failure. Our health care system is one overwhelmingly vivid

example.

"Hillary Rodham is going to give us all of the details for her grand

plan ..."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope it's one of those Five Year Plans. The Bolsevicks made them

great fun!

Oooh oh will there be little books passed out at the meetings? What

color will they be?

On Sep 17, 10:04 am, SwampMidget <webmas...@101click.com> wrote:

> "Hillary Rodham is going to give us all of the details for her grand

> plan ..."

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> I hope it's one of those Five Year Plans. The Bolsevicks made them

> great fun!

> Oooh oh will there be little books passed out at the meetings? What

> color will they be?

Color??? As in coloring books? Or do you mean connect the dots?

That stupid, arrogant bitch is no more up to the job than Sonny boy;

who currently is fucking up our country beyond repair.

We need a third....fourth.....fifth...etc...party now!!!! America

has no greater enemy than our corrupt, full-of-shit, two party

system. These drug store magicians pulled of the greatest illusion

in history...duping the people into believing there is a difference

between the two parties and that they actually have choice. LMAO!!!!

The accomplishments of the last three presidents should have told you

otherwise.

> That stupid, arrogant bitch is no more up to the job than Sonny

> boy; who currently is fucking up our country beyond repair.

Learn to live with it: President Hillary Clinton...

> We need a third....fourth.....fifth...etc...party now!!!!

Americans don't vote for third etc parties.

> America has no greater enemy than our corrupt, full-of-shit, two

> party system. These drug store magicians pulled of the greatest

> illusion in history...duping the people into believing there is a

> difference between the two parties and that they actually have

> choice. LMAO!!!!

The illusion has succeeded in fooling 99% of American voters.

> The accomplishments of the last three presidents

> should have told you otherwise.

Americans learn from nothing, because they know that beyond the two

parties are a bedlam of screeching fanatics of all stripes who want to

screw things up beyond our wildest nightmares. The two-party system is

our defense against chaos.

On Sep 17, 10:22 am, Igor The Terrible

<igor_the_terri...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:

> On Sep 17, 10:04 am, SwampMidget <webmas...@101click.com> wrote:

>

> > "Hillary Rodham is going to give us all of the details for her grand

> > plan ..."

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> > I hope it's one of those Five Year Plans. The Bolsevicks made them

> > great fun!

> > Oooh oh will there be little books passed out at the meetings? What

> > color will they be?

>

> Color??? As in coloring books? Or do you mean connect the dots?

>

> That stupid, arrogant bitch is no more up to the job than Sonny boy;

> who currently is fucking up our country beyond repair.

>

> We need a third....fourth.....fifth...etc...party now!!!! America

> has no greater enemy than our corrupt, full-of-shit, two party

> system. These drug store magicians pulled of the greatest illusion

> in history...duping the people into believing there is a difference

> between the two parties and that they actually have choice. LMAO!!!!

> The accomplishments of the last three presidents should have told you

> otherwise.

Agreed. We have GOT to have more choices than

than what the two parties are offering us now.

Citizen Jimserac

On Sep 17, 12:02 pm, Bert Byfield <BertByfi...@nospam.not> wrote:

..

>

> Americans learn from nothing, because they know that beyond the two

> parties are a bedlam of screeching fanatics of all stripes who want to

> screw things up beyond our wildest nightmares. The two-party system is

> our defense against chaos.

Or the cause of it, I'm not sure which.

Citizen Jimserac

On Sep 17, 1:19 pm, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 17, 10:22 am, Igor The Terrible

>

>

>

>

>

> <igor_the_terri...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:

> > On Sep 17, 10:04 am, SwampMidget <webmas...@101click.com> wrote:

>

> > > "Hillary Rodham is going to give us all of the details for her grand

> > > plan ..."

> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> > > I hope it's one of those Five Year Plans. The Bolsevicks made them

> > > great fun!

> > > Oooh oh will there be little books passed out at the meetings? What

> > > color will they be?

>

> > Color??? As in coloring books? Or do you mean connect the dots?

>

> > That stupid, arrogant bitch is no more up to the job than Sonny boy;

> > who currently is fucking up our country beyond repair.

>

> > We need a third....fourth.....fifth...etc...party now!!!! America

> > has no greater enemy than our corrupt, full-of-shit, two party

> > system. These drug store magicians pulled of the greatest illusion

> > in history...duping the people into believing there is a difference

> > between the two parties and that they actually have choice. LMAO!!!!

> > The accomplishments of the last three presidents should have told you

> > otherwise.

>

> Agreed. We have GOT to have more choices than

> than what the two parties are offering us now.

>

> Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

Absolutely!!!!!! I am blown away at the reality of the idea that

people can't come to the realization of this.

On Sep 17, 12:02 pm, Bert Byfield <BertByfi...@nospam.not> wrote:

> > That stupid, arrogant bitch is no more up to the job than Sonny

> > boy; who currently is fucking up our country beyond repair.

>

> Learn to live with it: President Hillary Clinton...

Yep, she's is the salvation of America...the great American hope and

last shot at the American dream. But Bert, is that before or after

America is standing on the world's corner with a dark pair of

sunglasses and tin cup holding up a sign, "Will work to exist".

Hillary demonstrated her problem solving skills when she took it upon

herself to address the health insurance issue when her playboy husband

was running the show. After the millions spent, what became of it?

Nothing. ...And that was at a time when fixing health care was a a

hell of a lot easier than it is now. Not to mention, the economic

land mines that have been set by this piece of shit administration.

Sorry senor Bert, she doesn't have what it takes. If by some miracle

she is elected; expect more of the same shit--in the good ole Yale

tradition.

>

> > We need a third....fourth.....fifth...etc...party now!!!!

>

> Americans don't vote for third etc parties.

Wrong. Clueless Americans don't vote for 3rd parties because they are

not capable of seeing beyond the choices spoon fed to them by those

screwing them royally in the first place.

>

> > America has no greater enemy than our corrupt, full-of-shit, two

> > party system. These drug store magicians pulled off the greatest

> > illusion in history...duping the people into believing there is a

> > difference between the two parties and that they actually have

> > choice. LMAO!!!!

>

> The illusion has succeeded in fooling 99% of American voters.

Closer to 92% Believe it or not there are people in this country

capable of independent thought and who can see through the bullshit

you 2-party supporters embrace and bite: hook, line, and sinker.

>

> > The accomplishments of the last three presidents

> > should have told you otherwise.

>

> Americans learn from nothing, because they know that beyond the two

> parties are a bedlam of screeching fanatics of all stripes who want to

> screw things up beyond our wildest nightmares. The two-party system is

> our defense against chaos.

Heaven forbid should they remove the ring from your nose and the bell

from around your neck, Yes indeed, it would be a nightmare to be left

with no other option but to think and reason things out for yourself.

It must be a real blessing to have the people you're voting for define

all the issues and make the "right" decisions for you. However, in a

detached way, you are marginally in that experience is indeed the best

teacher and fools learn no other way. But the real issue here is

those who learn for neither insight nor experience who also are so

eager forfeit "real" choice merely to be a member of the herd--and do

it time and over again. Then they bitch and moan about how bad life

is gotten in this country.

Yea, the key word here is "defense". When was the last time either

party took the initiative to lead the country above the chaos and

returned it the prosperous and respected country it once was? The

answer is simple: NOBODY!! Nobody with such leadership abilities and

skills gravitates to either of the corrupt and intellectually bankrupt

parties. Surprise!!!

I guarantee you that if there were 3 -5 parties running, we would have

a FAR better choice of candidates to choose from--especially if their

campaign fund raisers didn't get contributions from renegade

corporations.

"Citizen Jimserac" <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190037627.852738.197390@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

> On Sep 17, 9:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

> I WILL REPEAT THAT NUMBER IN CASE IT DID NOT SINK IN FOR YOU

> 47 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NO HEALTH CARE COVERAGE AT ALL.

Yes, that's an actual problem. FOR THEM. Its NOT a problem for ME.

Socialized healthcare FOR EVERYONE is a POOR solution for everyone EXCEPT

those 47 million.

Are you one of the 47 million? Do YOU have a vested interested in this?

If not then the problem to be solved is with those 47 million ONLY.

In our last episode, <46eefe47$0$15399$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, the lovely

and talented Patriot Games broadcast on alt.politics:

> "Citizen Jimserac" <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote in message

> news:1190037627.852738.197390@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>> On Sep 17, 9:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

>> I WILL REPEAT THAT NUMBER IN CASE IT DID NOT SINK IN FOR YOU

>> 47 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NO HEALTH CARE COVERAGE AT ALL.

> Yes, that's an actual problem. FOR THEM. Its NOT a problem for ME.

If you don't pay taxes or ever go to a hospital. Otherwise, you pay for

health care for the poor. You pay taxes for the losses of public hospitals,

and you or isurance carrier pay more for hospital services in order to cover

the losses of the emergency room. This is a lot more expensive than

preventive and maintence care, so not only do you pay, you pay for the most

expensive level of treatment.

Moreover, you are exposed to communicable diseases you would not be exposed

to if others could afford to get treatment, and you pay more for products

and services because employers have to cover time that is missed by sick

employees.

> Socialized healthcare FOR EVERYONE is a POOR solution for everyone EXCEPT

> those 47 million.

It's cheaper and better for everyone to live in a healthy society, and every

other industrialized country on earth has realized this.

> Are you one of the 47 million? Do YOU have a vested interested in this?

> If not then the problem to be solved is with those 47 million ONLY.

--

Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>

Countdown: 490 days to go.

What do you do when you're debranded?

On Sep 17, 6:23 pm, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:

> "Citizen Jimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>

> news:1190037627.852738.197390@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>

> > On Sep 17, 9:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> >> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

> > I WILL REPEAT THAT NUMBER IN CASE IT DID NOT SINK IN FOR YOU

> > 47 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NO HEALTH CARE COVERAGE AT ALL.

>

> Yes, that's an actual problem. FOR THEM. Its NOT a problem for ME.

>

> Socialized healthcare FOR EVERYONE is a POOR solution for everyone EXCEPT

> those 47 million.

>

> Are you one of the 47 million? Do YOU have a vested interested in this?

>

> If not then the problem to be solved is with those 47 million ONLY.

NOT A PROBLEM FOR YOU GAMES????? Perhaps you were not aware

of the resurgence of LEPROSY or the arrival of new drug resistant

strains of TB.

Au contraire mssr Games, I suggest to you that they are VERY MUCH YOUR

PROBLEM

and if you ignore it, it could very well cost YOU your life.

Citizen Jimserac

"Lars Eighner" <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote in message

news:slrnfeu2gu.fhi.usenet@debranded.larseighner.com...

> In our last episode, <46eefe47$0$15399$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, the

> lovely

> and talented Patriot Games broadcast on alt.politics:

>> "Citizen Jimserac" <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:1190037627.852738.197390@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>>> On Sep 17, 9:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>>> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

>>> I WILL REPEAT THAT NUMBER IN CASE IT DID NOT SINK IN FOR YOU

>>> 47 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NO HEALTH CARE COVERAGE AT ALL.

>> Yes, that's an actual problem. FOR THEM. Its NOT a problem for ME.

> If you don't pay taxes or ever go to a hospital. Otherwise, you pay for

> health care for the poor.

I know that.... If we're paying for healthcare for the poor ALREADY then

who are the (alleged) 47 million people WITHOUT health care insurance?

> You pay taxes for the losses of public hospitals,

> and you or isurance carrier pay more for hospital services in order to

> cover

> the losses of the emergency room. This is a lot more expensive than

> preventive and maintence care, so not only do you pay, you pay for the

> most

> expensive level of treatment.

I know that...

> Moreover, you are exposed to communicable diseases you would not be

> exposed

> to if others could afford to get treatment, and you pay more for products

> and services because employers have to cover time that is missed by sick

> employees.

Lemme see if I understand this... If I pay MORE TAXES you're claiming that

I'll eventually get that back in CHEAPER PRODUCTS? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!

>> Socialized healthcare FOR EVERYONE is a POOR solution for everyone EXCEPT

>> those 47 million.

> It's cheaper and better for everyone to live in a healthy society, and

> every

> other industrialized country on earth has realized this.

That's is the LAMEST BULLSHIT EXCUSE of an answer I've read in WEEKS.

>> Are you one of the 47 million? Do YOU have a vested interested in this?

>> If not then the problem to be solved is with those 47 million ONLY.

Our society is healthier now than it has ever been.

Just because OTHER industrialized nations have flipped to SOCIALISM is NO

REASON why America should.

You are DUCKING the PROBLEM.

253,000,000 MILLION Americans DO have health insurance.

You are offering them NOTHING except HIGHER TAXES to pay for the (alleged)

47 million who do not have health insurance.

ITS A SCAM!

"Citizen Jimserac" <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190078265.486517.209950@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...

> On Sep 17, 6:23 pm, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:

>> "Citizen Jimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> news:1190037627.852738.197390@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>> > On Sep 17, 9:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> >> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

>> > I WILL REPEAT THAT NUMBER IN CASE IT DID NOT SINK IN FOR YOU

>> > 47 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NO HEALTH CARE COVERAGE AT ALL.

>> Yes, that's an actual problem. FOR THEM. Its NOT a problem for ME.

>> Socialized healthcare FOR EVERYONE is a POOR solution for everyone EXCEPT

>> those 47 million.

>> Are you one of the 47 million? Do YOU have a vested interested in this?

>> If not then the problem to be solved is with those 47 million ONLY.

> NOT A PROBLEM FOR YOU GAMES????? Perhaps you were not aware

> of the resurgence of LEPROSY or the arrival of new drug resistant

> strains of TB.

Neither of which are problems of MINE.

Neither of which are problems for the 253,000,000 Americans who DO have

health care insurance.

> Au contraire mssr Games, I suggest to you that they are VERY MUCH YOUR

> PROBLEM

> and if you ignore it, it could very well cost YOU your life.

100% LAME BULLSHIT answer.

Are you one of the 47 million? Do YOU have a vested interested in this?

I ALREADY pay for my healthcare insurance.

My TAXES ALREADY pay for healthcare for the poor.

WHO are these (alleged) 47 million who don't have healthcare insurance and

WHAT DO I GET BACK for paying for THEIR healthcare insurance??????

On Sep 17, 8:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I thought America was a REPUBLIC??

>

> She's at it again, folks. Hillary Rodham is going to give us

> all of the details for her grand plan to bring the United

> States into line with the rest of the socialized medicine world.

>

> Rodham will tell us that her plan is going to cost around

> $110 billion a year. That's a lie ... and she knows it's a

> lie. Take a look at every medical-related spending program

> out there, from Medicare on .. and you'll find that the

> politicians who brought us these programs flat-out lied when

> they told us how much they would cost. Hillary's $110

> billion a year will become $300 billion an year and more

> before her husband makes his next conquest.

>

> Make no mistake. Every single politician in Washington knows

> that the surest way to make affordable health care available

> to every single American is through the private sector. They

> know that eliminating the regulations that stifle

> competition, and getting rid of insurance mandates that

> drive up the cost of even the most basic policies would

> bring millions of the uninsured back into the ranks of the

> fully insured. They know that giving individuals the same

> tax treatment for buying their own health insurance policies

> that their employers get providing those policies for them

> would solve much our problem with the uninsured. The know

> all of these things .. .but they also know one more very

> important fact. With every private sector solution

> introduced into our health care system politicians and

> government lose power ... and that just cannot be permitted.

>

> The goal of these politicians is not to bring you health

> care. Their goal is to make you more dependent on government

> ... and them.

> "When I'm president, privatization is off the table because

> it's not the answer to anything."

>

> Hillary Rodham, September 3, 2007 AARP Legislative Conference.

>

> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

We like the smell. Socialized medicine works better than capitalist

medicine. Cheaper, too.

>> Agreed. We have GOT to have more choices than

>> than what the two parties are offering us now.

> Absolutely!!!!!! I am blown away at the reality of the idea that

> people can't come to the realization of this.

Must be nice to be so young. The fact is that there are LOTS more

choices than what the two parties are offering us now, always have

been, but the hard reality is that no one cares. The news networks

don't report on the small parties, not even on election night. The

American people won't vote for them. The small parties fight each other

for their share of the .5% vote that does not go to the Demopublicans,

but they don't get elected to anything. Ross Perot is almost a notable

exception, but he didn't get elected to anything either. Ron Paul had a

victory some time back, but didn't get elected to anything at the time.

I think he's in politics as a Republican now. Anyway, the American

voter won't vote for third parties. What do you want? A coup? Good

luck.

>> Learn to live with it: President Hillary Clinton...

> Yep, she's is the salvation of America...the great American hope

> and last shot at the American dream. But Bert, is that before or

> after America is standing on the world's corner with a dark pair

> of sunglasses and tin cup holding up a sign, "Will work to exist".

I share your pessimism. But who can stop Hillary?

> Hillary demonstrated her problem solving skills when she took it

> upon herself to address the health insurance issue when her

> playboy husband was running the show. After the millions spent,

> what became of it? Nothing.

Hillary is a socialist criminal. But, even so, who can stop Hillary?

The Democrats love her, and enough Republican women will vote for her

to make the difference. I am so annoyed at the criminal war against

Iraq that I might vote for Hillary myself.

> ...And that was at a time when fixing

> health care was a a hell of a lot easier than it is now.

I saw an article in the regular newspaper about how she has learned

from her mistakes and won't burn down Blue Cross this time.

> Not to

> mention, the economic land mines that have been set by this piece

> of shit administration.

All the powers the Bush regime arrogates to themselves now will be

passed on to President Hillary...

> Sorry senor Bert, she doesn't have what it

> takes. If by some miracle she is elected; expect more of the same

> shit--in the good ole Yale tradition.

Sure. But that has never stopped America from electing criminal idiots

before, and won't now. It seems impossible for an honest person to be

elected to anything important now.

>>> We need a third....fourth.....fifth...etc...party now!!!!

>> Americans don't vote for third etc parties.

> Wrong. Clueless Americans don't vote for 3rd parties because they

> are not capable of seeing beyond the choices spoon fed to them by

> those screwing them royally in the first place.

Yes, but none of this is going to change.

>>> America has no greater enemy than our corrupt, full-of-shit,

>>> two party system. These drug store magicians pulled off the

>>> greatest illusion in history...duping the people into believing

>>> there is a difference between the two parties and that they

>>> actually have choice. LMAO!!!!

I agree, but now what? Knowing the Truth does not solve the problem.

The Libertarian Party is great on knowing the truth, but they can't get

elected to anything.

>> The illusion has succeeded in fooling 99% of American voters.

> Closer to 92% Believe it or not there are people in this country

> capable of independent thought and who can see through the

> bullshit you 2-party supporters embrace and bite: hook, line, and

> sinker.

Democrat vote + Republican vote = 99%.

>> > The accomplishments of the last three presidents

>> > should have told you otherwise.

Bush, Clinton, Reagan? I liked Reagan. The other two are criminals.

>> Americans learn from nothing, because they know that beyond the

>> two parties are a bedlam of screeching fanatics of all stripes

>> who want to screw things up beyond our wildest nightmares. The

>> two-party system is our defense against chaos.

> ...way. But the real issue here is those who learn for neither

> insight nor experience who also are so eager forfeit "real" choice

> merely to be a member of the herd--and do it time and over again.

> Then they bitch and moan about how bad life is gotten in this

> country.

"People get the government they deserve."

> Yea, the key word here is "defense". When was the last time

> either party took the initiative to lead the country above the

> chaos and returned it the prosperous and respected country it once

> was? The answer is simple: NOBODY!! Nobody with such leadership

> abilities and skills gravitates to either of the corrupt and

> intellectually bankrupt parties. Surprise!!!

Join the Libertarian Party. At least you will be with people who

understand you. You still won't get anyone elected to anything.

> I guarantee you that if there were 3 -5 parties running, we would

> have a FAR better choice of candidates to choose from--especially

> if their campaign fund raisers didn't get contributions from

> renegade corporations.

But there ARE 3-5 parties running. There are lots more than that.

There are something like 100 parties running. Right to Life Party,

Independence Party, Socialist Workers Party, Communist Party, the nazis

must have a party, so on. So -- happy now? Gus Hall ran for US

President for about fifty years. Did you vote for him? No? Then what do

you expect.

On Sep 18, 3:30 pm, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:

> "Lars Eighner" <use...@larseighner.com> wrote in message

>

> news:slrnfeu2gu.fhi.usenet@debranded.larseighner.com...

>

> > In our last episode, <46eefe47$0$15399$4c368...@roadrunner.com>, the

> > lovely

> > and talented Patriot Games broadcast on alt.politics:

> >> "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> >>news:1190037627.852738.197390@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

> >>> On Sep 17, 9:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> >>>> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

> >>> I WILL REPEAT THAT NUMBER IN CASE IT DID NOT SINK IN FOR YOU

> >>> 47 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NO HEALTH CARE COVERAGE AT ALL.

> >> Yes, that's an actual problem. FOR THEM. Its NOT a problem for ME.

> > If you don't pay taxes or ever go to a hospital. Otherwise, you pay for

> > health care for the poor.

>

> I know that.... If we're paying for healthcare for the poor ALREADY then

> who are the (alleged) 47 million people WITHOUT health care insurance?

>

> > You pay taxes for the losses of public hospitals,

> > and you or isurance carrier pay more for hospital services in order to

> > cover

> > the losses of the emergency room. This is a lot more expensive than

> > preventive and maintence care, so not only do you pay, you pay for the

> > most

> > expensive level of treatment.

>

> I know that...

>

> > Moreover, you are exposed to communicable diseases you would not be

> > exposed

> > to if others could afford to get treatment, and you pay more for products

> > and services because employers have to cover time that is missed by sick

> > employees.

>

> Lemme see if I understand this... If I pay MORE TAXES you're claiming that

> I'll eventually get that back in CHEAPER PRODUCTS? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!

>

> >> Socialized healthcare FOR EVERYONE is a POOR solution for everyone EXCEPT

> >> those 47 million.

> > It's cheaper and better for everyone to live in a healthy society, and

> > every

> > other industrialized country on earth has realized this.

>

> That's is the LAMEST BULLSHIT EXCUSE of an answer I've read in WEEKS.

>

> >> Are you one of the 47 million? Do YOU have a vested interested in this?

> >> If not then the problem to be solved is with those 47 million ONLY.

>

> Our society is healthier now than it has ever been.

>

> Just because OTHER industrialized nations have flipped to SOCIALISM is NO

> REASON why America should.

>

> You are DUCKING the PROBLEM.

>

> 253,000,000 MILLION Americans DO have health insurance.

>

> You are offering them NOTHING except HIGHER TAXES to pay for the (alleged)

> 47 million who do not have health insurance.

>

> ITS A SCAM!

NO GOOD Games but nice try. The latest economic statistics indicate

that the MAJOR CAUSE OF PERSONAL BANKRUPTCY in the United States is

HEALTH CARE EXPENSES.

In case you did not know it, many of those HEALTH CARE COMPANIES have

little provisos and exclusions in their "policies" so if you have a

chronic disease, after so many months the insurance company STOPS

PAYING.

With UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE coverage, the conditions are covered FOR AS

LONG AS YOU NEED TREATMENT AND EVERYONE IS COVERED. So, Games, you

won't have to worry about catching a drug resistant strain of TB next

time you go to that baseball game or take a walk in the park.

Citizen Jimserac

On Sep 18, 10:20 pm, Bert Byfield <BertByfi...@nospam.not> wrote:

> >> Learn to live with it: President Hillary Clinton...

> > Yep, she's is the salvation of America...the great American hope

> > and last shot at the American dream. But Bert, is that before or

> > after America is standing on the world's corner with a dark pair

> > of sunglasses and tin cup holding up a sign, "Will work to exist".

>

> I share your pessimism. But who can stop Hillary?

>

> > Hillary demonstrated her problem solving skills when she took it

> > upon herself to address the health insurance issue when her

> > playboy husband was running the show. After the millions spent,

> > what became of it? Nothing.

>

> Hillary is a socialist criminal. But, even so, who can stop Hillary?

> The Democrats love her, and enough Republican women will vote for her

> to make the difference. I am so annoyed at the criminal war against

> Iraq that I might vote for Hillary myself.

>

> > ...And that was at a time when fixing

> > health care was a a hell of a lot easier than it is now.

>

> I saw an article in the regular newspaper about how she has learned

> from her mistakes and won't burn down Blue Cross this time.

>

> > Not to

> > mention, the economic land mines that have been set by this piece

> > of shit administration.

>

> All the powers the Bush regime arrogates to themselves now will be

> passed on to President Hillary...

>

> > Sorry senor Bert, she doesn't have what it

> > takes. If by some miracle she is elected; expect more of the same

> > shit--in the good ole Yale tradition.

>

> Sure. But that has never stopped America from electing criminal idiots

> before, and won't now. It seems impossible for an honest person to be

> elected to anything important now.

>

> >>> We need a third....fourth.....fifth...etc...party now!!!!

> >> Americans don't vote for third etc parties.

> > Wrong. Clueless Americans don't vote for 3rd parties because they

> > are not capable of seeing beyond the choices spoon fed to them by

> > those screwing them royally in the first place.

>

> Yes, but none of this is going to change.

>

> >>> America has no greater enemy than our corrupt, full-of-shit,

> >>> two party system. These drug store magicians pulled off the

> >>> greatest illusion in history...duping the people into believing

> >>> there is a difference between the two parties and that they

> >>> actually have choice. LMAO!!!!

>

> I agree, but now what? Knowing the Truth does not solve the problem.

> The Libertarian Party is great on knowing the truth, but they can't get

> elected to anything.

>

> >> The illusion has succeeded in fooling 99% of American voters.

> > Closer to 92% Believe it or not there are people in this country

> > capable of independent thought and who can see through the

> > bullshit you 2-party supporters embrace and bite: hook, line, and

> > sinker.

>

> Democrat vote + Republican vote = 99%.

>

> >> > The accomplishments of the last three presidents

> >> > should have told you otherwise.

>

> Bush, Clinton, Reagan? I liked Reagan. The other two are criminals.

>

> >> Americans learn from nothing, because they know that beyond the

> >> two parties are a bedlam of screeching fanatics of all stripes

> >> who want to screw things up beyond our wildest nightmares. The

> >> two-party system is our defense against chaos.

> > ...way. But the real issue here is those who learn for neither

> > insight nor experience who also are so eager forfeit "real" choice

> > merely to be a member of the herd--and do it time and over again.

> > Then they bitch and moan about how bad life is gotten in this

> > country.

>

> "People get the government they deserve."

>

> > Yea, the key word here is "defense". When was the last time

> > either party took the initiative to lead the country above the

> > chaos and returned it the prosperous and respected country it once

> > was? The answer is simple: NOBODY!! Nobody with such leadership

> > abilities and skills gravitates to either of the corrupt and

> > intellectually bankrupt parties. Surprise!!!

>

> Join the Libertarian Party. At least you will be with people who

> understand you. You still won't get anyone elected to anything.

>

> > I guarantee you that if there were 3 -5 parties running, we would

> > have a FAR better choice of candidates to choose from--especially

> > if their campaign fund raisers didn't get contributions from

> > renegade corporations.

>

> But there ARE 3-5 parties running. There are lots more than that.

> There are something like 100 parties running. Right to Life Party,

> Independence Party, Socialist Workers Party, Communist Party, the nazis

> must have a party, so on. So -- happy now? Gus Hall ran for US

> President for about fifty years. Did you vote for him? No? Then what do

> you expect.

NO! The Federal Election commission, run by (surprise!) Republicans

and Democrats,

has created very restrictive rules and makes it almost impossible for

other parties to become legit and get on the ballots.

Citizen Jimserac

>> But there ARE 3-5 parties running. There are lots more than

>> that. There are something like 100 parties running. Right to Life

>> Party, Independence Party, Socialist Workers Party, Communist

>> Party, the nazis must have a party, so on. So -- happy now? Gus

>> Hall ran for US President for about fifty years. Did you vote for

>> him? No? Then what do you expect.

> NO! The Federal Election commission, run by (surprise!)

> Republicans and Democrats,

> has created very restrictive rules and makes it almost impossible

> for other parties to become legit and get on the ballots.

> Citizen Jimserac

The Federal Election Commission is run by Republicans and Democrats

because these parties get 99% of the vote. When I was in the

Libertarian Party, we could get on the ballot with a signature drive,

but we still just could not attract votes. Americans just don't trust

third parties, seeing them as fanatics who would make things even worse

for us. If this is wrong, it is nevertheless true that they believe it.

Capitalism and Communism are both bad. The problem with

capitalism is that it puts no special value on people. Capitalism is

based on supply and demand. A capitalist company that made potato

chips for example would need--X number of potatoes, Y amount of salt,

and Z number of human beings for labor. The human beings have no more

value than the potatoes or the salt. And they consider it good to pay

the humans as little as they possibly can to increase their profits.

According to capitalist theory people must compete to see who

will work for the least pennies per hour. They say everyone must

compete with the people in Mexico and China to see who will work for

the fewest pennies. If a company makes billions in profit while paying

its employees starvation wages that is perfectly fine. At least the

sacred laws of supply and demand are not violated. If the people die

of starvation that is fine too. You can always get more people. If

there is not enough work for everyone to do then they think people

need to die off. Ebenezer Scrooge did everything right according to

the capitalists and followed the beliefs and values of capitalism.

The apologists for the Scrooges correctly point out that

people only start business for a profit. Of course that is true.

Anyone can see that communism is a big mistake. But wouldn't people

start the business for only millions in profits rather than billions?

What if there were laws that made sure working people got a reasonable

share of the profit? Would that be so terrible?

In a hypothetical case suppose technology progressed so far that

all

the work were done by machines. Huge farms gathering food and all

automated. You would think everything would be great, but under

capitalism the people would starve because there wouldn't be enough

jobs.

Capitalists oppose welfare and say that orphans and other needy

people should be helped by charity. How much charity would there be

when capitalists openly say that selfishness is a great virtue? If

there was no welfare then the charitable people would have to pay for

everything while most people would not pay one thin dime. We have

welfare so people all pay their fair share. It is part of having

civilization.

We have many laws that make things better for people.

There are laws that give people extra pay if they work over forty

hours. There are laws that ensure people will have retirement.

Capitalism is for doing away with the laws so businesses can be free

to be as greedy as possible.There are laws that keep people from

getting ripped off when they buy a house. Capitalism is against that.

Capitalism is bad for people.

http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com

http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.nsm88.com/

http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html

"Citizen Jimserac" <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1190203378.815976.162900@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

> On Sep 18, 3:30 pm, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:

>> "Lars Eighner" <use...@larseighner.com> wrote in message

>> news:slrnfeu2gu.fhi.usenet@debranded.larseighner.com...

>> > In our last episode, <46eefe47$0$15399$4c368...@roadrunner.com>, the

>> > lovely

>> > and talented Patriot Games broadcast on alt.politics:

>> >> "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> >>news:1190037627.852738.197390@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>> >>> On Sep 17, 9:34 am, WhoGivesAFig? <doit...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> >>>> Wake up, people ... and smell the socialism.

>> >>> I WILL REPEAT THAT NUMBER IN CASE IT DID NOT SINK IN FOR YOU

>> >>> 47 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE NO HEALTH CARE COVERAGE AT ALL.

>> >> Yes, that's an actual problem. FOR THEM. Its NOT a problem for ME.

>> > If you don't pay taxes or ever go to a hospital. Otherwise, you pay

>> > for

>> > health care for the poor.

>> I know that.... If we're paying for healthcare for the poor ALREADY then

>> who are the (alleged) 47 million people WITHOUT health care insurance?

>> > You pay taxes for the losses of public hospitals,

>> > and you or isurance carrier pay more for hospital services in order to

>> > cover

>> > the losses of the emergency room. This is a lot more expensive than

>> > preventive and maintence care, so not only do you pay, you pay for the

>> > most

>> > expensive level of treatment.

>> I know that...

>> > Moreover, you are exposed to communicable diseases you would not be

>> > exposed

>> > to if others could afford to get treatment, and you pay more for

>> > products

>> > and services because employers have to cover time that is missed by

>> > sick

>> > employees.

>> Lemme see if I understand this... If I pay MORE TAXES you're claiming

>> that

>> I'll eventually get that back in CHEAPER PRODUCTS?

>> HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!

>> >> Socialized healthcare FOR EVERYONE is a POOR solution for everyone

>> >> EXCEPT

>> >> those 47 million.

>> > It's cheaper and better for everyone to live in a healthy society, and

>> > every

>> > other industrialized country on earth has realized this.

>> That's is the LAMEST BULLSHIT EXCUSE of an answer I've read in WEEKS.

>> >> Are you one of the 47 million? Do YOU have a vested interested in

>> >> this?

>> >> If not then the problem to be solved is with those 47 million ONLY.

>> Our society is healthier now than it has ever been.

>> Just because OTHER industrialized nations have flipped to SOCIALISM is NO

>> REASON why America should.

>> You are DUCKING the PROBLEM.

>> 253,000,000 MILLION Americans DO have health insurance.

>> You are offering them NOTHING except HIGHER TAXES to pay for the

>> (alleged)

>> 47 million who do not have health insurance.

>> ITS A SCAM!

> NO GOOD Games but nice try. The latest economic statistics indicate

> that the MAJOR CAUSE OF PERSONAL BANKRUPTCY in the United States is

> HEALTH CARE EXPENSES.

I know that. But its NOT MY PROBLEM.

> In case you did not know it, many of those HEALTH CARE COMPANIES have

> little provisos and exclusions in their "policies" so if you have a

> chronic disease, after so many months the insurance company STOPS

> PAYING.

Cite?

> With UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE coverage, the conditions are covered FOR AS

> LONG AS YOU NEED TREATMENT AND EVERYONE IS COVERED. So, Games, you

> won't have to worry about catching a drug resistant strain of TB next

> time you go to that baseball game or take a walk in the park.

I don't have to worry about it now.

And MY taxes haven't gone up.

You OFFER ME NOTHING.

On Sep 19, 10:32 am, Bert Byfield <BertByfi...@nospam.not> wrote:

> >> But there ARE 3-5 parties running. There are lots more than

> >> that. There are something like 100 parties running. Right to Life

> >> Party, Independence Party, Socialist Workers Party, Communist

> >> Party, the nazis must have a party, so on. So -- happy now? Gus

> >> Hall ran for US President for about fifty years. Did you vote for

> >> him? No? Then what do you expect.

> > NO! The Federal Election commission, run by (surprise!)

> > Republicans and Democrats,

> > has created very restrictive rules and makes it almost impossible

> > for other parties to become legit and get on the ballots.

> > CitizenJimserac

>

> The Federal Election Commission is run by Republicans and Democrats

> because these parties get 99% of the vote. When I was in the

> Libertarian Party, we could get on the ballot with a signature drive,

> but we still just could not attract votes. Americans just don't trust

> third parties, seeing them as fanatics who would make things even worse

> for us. If this is wrong, it is nevertheless true that they believe it.

Third parties a little TOO RADICAL for them, eh? Well then, they

probably have not noticed the mess that a group called the neo-CONS

have done ever since they gained control of (surprise!) BOTH MAJOR

PARTIES.

Citizen Jimserac