Was General Douglas MacArthur a hero or heretic?

builder

New member
Douggie MacAuthur returned form Korea a hero. The troops he commanded returned to derision and ridicule.

Douggie was sacked during the Korean conflict for inciting the Chinese by threatening nuclear bombing. He also commandeered the most costly of invasions in human losses in the history of war.

Is Douggie a hero? Or should he go down in history as a narcisisstic maniac, who almost triggered an international nuclear war?

 

Mr X

New member
Douggie MacAuthur returned form Korea a hero. The troops he commanded returned to derision and ridicule.
Douggie was sacked during the Korean conflict for inciting the Chinese by threatening nuclear bombing. He also commandeered the most costly of invasions in human losses in the history of war.

Is Douggie a hero? Or should he go down in history as a narcisisstic maniac, who almost triggered an international nuclear war?
****, how can you negatively judge the guy...he was responding to the prevailing factors that faced him...damned commie chinese were just going to prolong the war.

He is a hero and so were those that soldiered and died under him.

Maybe it was'nt a good idea to air his frustrations with the chinese so publicly.

Anyways look at the two koreas...and look at those stubborn commie diehards in the north...somebody should tell the north ,that communism died twenty odd years ago.Poor bastards are starving and yet he(kim) puts on the elaborate parades which praise him and the communist party...really, who's a narcissistic maniac here?

 

builder

New member
Agreed that Pyongyang is so ****** up, his underlings have the straight jacket permanently ready.

Disagree that communism is dead. China is a true economic superpower, even to the point of lending the US money to the tune of billions.

It wasn't a good idea at all to inflame the ire of the Chinese. Douggie made some assumptions about the Chinese, and his taunts led to his dismissal.

The Chinese made a mockery of all the allies in Korea.

That includes many Australians, and the finest fighting outfit in those times, the Gloucesters. Led to the slaughter in the effort to stave off the Chinese onslaught brought on by Douggie's taunts. He was long gone by then.

I've read a lot on this conflict, and there are still many surviving diggers, who frequent pubs and clubs where I live. Their stories of Korea shock the **** outta me.

 

Mr X

New member
hahahaha builder I've always wondered about china...is that really communism?..it seems to be funded by capitalist enterprises.

The funny part is that the Americans are in Debt(trade deficit) to china...go figure.

 

builder

New member
Well MrX, if you live in China, you are allowed only one child per couple. If you try and have another on the quiet, they take that child off you. What happens to the kid after that, is none of your ********* business.

I'd call that a communist dictatorship. As for the capitalist bent, that is why it is the most successful communist nation in history. They do fund the US, and are also a major player in the Australian market. We can't get the iron ore and coal off to them quick enough.

They don't loan us any money, they throw it at us. :D

Trouble is, they are killing off our fledgling manufacturing market. bastards.

 

Mr X

New member
Well MrX, if you live in China, you are allowed only one child per couple. If you try and have another on the quiet, they take that child off you. What happens to the kid after that, is none of your ********* business.
I'd call that a communist dictatorship. As for the capitalist bent, that is why it is the most successful communist nation in history. They do fund the US, and are also a major player in the Australian market. We can't get the iron ore and coal off to them quick enough.

They don't loan us any money, they throw it at us. :D

Trouble is, they are killing off our fledgling manufacturing market. bastards.
hahaha point taken

 

builder

New member
Back to the topic. Do you believe that Douglas MacArthur was a hero? Or was he a dangerous and deranged player, bereft of forethought, and ****-bent on a personal vendetta, of his own making?

The following is a rather sanitised version of the events leading up to his dismissal from a US gov site.

MacArthur conceived of the Korean war as a holy war; he kept talking about "unleashing Chiang Kai-shek," then holed up in his island fortress on Formosa, and launching atomic strikes, all of which made Truman, the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the other UN countries involved very nervous.
For Harry Truman and the Joint Chiefs, Korea was an exercise in containment, but that made it a very frustrating war for many Americans. It meant that in this war the United States was not aiming for total victory, but for more limited, and more ambiguous, results.

There is a tradition in American government that the military is subordinate to the civilian leaders. Generals do not make statements about policy without first clearing them with their superiors. But MacArthur, used to ruling in Japan, ignored the chain of command, and began writing letters about what the United States should do in Korea.

He sent a letter to the Veterans of Foreign Wars saying that Formosa would be a fine place to launch an aggressive campaign against China. After the Chinese entered the war -- something MacArthur had assured Truman would never happen -- MacArthur wrote to Speaker of the House Joe Martin saying the United States could only win by an all-out war, and this meant bombing the Manchurian bases. So Harry Truman fired him, and evoked a firestorm of criticism from conservatives who believed Truman to be soft on communism.

But there is no question that Truman was absolutely correct. Whether his overall policy was right or wrong, the American Constitution commits control of foreign policy to the president and not to the military.

As Truman explained, avoidance of World War III while containing aggression was a difficult line to walk, but that was the policy the United States had decided upon. No soldier, not even a five-star general, could unilaterally challenge that policy without disturbing an essential element of democratic government.
 

Mr X

New member
hahahaha builder reading that article at first thought...Yeah it does sound a little crazy from a military point of view...but then again...I'm a little weary about these reports.Reason being..these reports could have been a calculated plot to leak to the Russian/chinese spy networks active in the U.S that the Americans were willing to go all the way...but in reality it was to scare the Russians and chinese to pressure the North koreans to go to the negotiating table.And thus ending the war.Yeah, the whole thing with North korea sounds like an elaborate "wind up".Conventional war wise the koreans could have fought on forever with commie countries pitching in financialy and with chinese volunteers from the p.l.a(could you tell the difference between the two).I just can't picture America exchanging nukes with china...that could have set of a dangerous chain reaction.

This is what I meant when I said in my other post..."I take western reporting with a grain of salt"

 

builder

New member
Rather than claiming the post came from "western reporting", if you check the link, you'll find it is a government site. Big difference.

There was such a stink surrounding Douggie's dismissal, that I'm surprised to find anything substantial from the US gov at all.

 

Mr X

New member
Rather than claiming the post came from "western reporting", if you check the link, you'll find it is a government site. Big difference.
There was such a stink surrounding Douggie's dismissal, that I'm surprised to find anything substantial from the US gov at all.
On paragraph 3(that link you provided)

How exactly did the U.N and the joint chief of staff come to know about MacArthurs letters/converstions?Why was the U.N informed and the information shared with them?.Why did Macarthur write such letters knowing it would be passed on..as the letters contained volitile ideas that would have landed him in hot water and even early retirement.Why did macarthur write these letters and send them to the speaker of the house Joe martin?(a civilian)..a letter that contained his hypothetical military agenda.(I thought these guys were taught to keep there thoughts private..but MacArthur wrote it on paper..surely he knows many eyes would have seen it)don't you think Joe martin would have become concerned and passed it on to his superiors.If the U.N was informed so were the Russians and the chinese.This news would have been evaluated by political/military strategist and psychologists working for various foreign agencies.

If MacArthur was behaving erratically and showing signs of instability, I(If I was commander in chief) would have relieved him of his command and replaced him quietly and told everyone that knew about the letters to get instant amnesia about it..and come up with some excuse to the media that MacArthur was retired due to health problems.But it went public for some odd reason.

 

Mr X

New member
On paragraph 3(that link you provided)
How exactly did the U.N and the joint chief of staff come to know about MacArthurs letters/converstions?Why was the U.N informed and the information shared with them?.Why did Macarthur write such letters knowing it would be passed on..as the letters contained volitile ideas that would have landed him in hot water and even early retirement.Why did macarthur write these letters and send them to the speaker of the house Joe martin?(a civilian)..a letter that contained his hypothetical military agenda.(I thought these guys were taught to keep there thoughts private..but MacArthur wrote it on paper..surely he knows many eyes would have seen it)don't you think Joe martin would have become concerned and passed it on to his superiors.If the U.N was informed so were the Russians and the chinese.This news would have been evaluated by political/military strategist and psychologists working for various foreign agencies.

If MacArthur was behaving erratically and showing signs of instability, I(If I was commander in chief) would have relieved him of his command and replaced him quietly and told everyone that knew about the letters to get instant amnesia about it..and come up with some excuse to the media that MacArthur was retired due to health problems.But it went public for some odd reason.
Not sure if these dates are correct but..

Korean war June 25,1950-July 27,1953

1950 Nov 30 President truman threatens use of atomic bomb against CCF(chinese communist forces)

April 11 1951 Truman relieves General MacArthur..General Ridgway takes over Fecom

April 19 1951 General MacArthur at congressional hearings on his dismissal

**** the korean war was complex and like see saw of defence and offensive and positioning ...with ever more fresh troops coming in from the communist side..anyways was there the possibility that a frustrated MacArthur was just sabre rattling?...it did'nt actually help..as the war continued as usual.

 

builder

New member
Who ******* cares??
Well, Mister, if nobody cared, the thread would already be dead. You wanna poke in for a look once a week, and drop your wet blanket on threads, so be it.

How's about you post a thread or two?

I know you have some interest, otherwise you wouldn't be here. ;)

 

tizz

New member
pjbuk brUGHT UP thread on it somewhere. We have braught it up a few times in his forums (I should say a friend of mine has)

VERY interesting theory

 
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