What are we teaching our kids?

LLOYD: At one Kentucky middle school, a recent civics lesson went up in smoke when a teacher burned two American flags. He wanted to get kids thinking for a paper they were writing on freedom of speech. Now the teacher has got time to think, because the act got him suspended. And as Tim Seymour explains, his torching of old glory has some parents pretty steamed

So is this the free speech we want our kids to learn? Teach them to speak out against our goverment. Teach them to have an open mind to politics and such. Teach them to discrace our country? HELL NO! this ass hole teacher should loose his job!

I would be pretty pissed if a teacher did that in front of my child...I would be pissed if anyone did that in front of my child.

Its terribly disrecptful.

Do I think it should be illegal to burn the flag...NO.

HOWEVER, there are plenty of things that are legal that should not be done in front of impressionable young children. Teenagers who are already, because of their age and hormones bent on rebellion are just as bad an idea.

So is this the free speech we want our kids to learn? Teach them to speak out against our goverment. Teach them to have an open mind to politics and such. Teach them to discrace our country? HELL NO! this ass hole teacher should loose his job!

For once you are wrong.... that fukker should be given to al quaeda. After a few hours with them he would appreciate the american flag. I would like to see a pussy like him do that in font of some veterans.

that fukker should be given to al quaeda.

Amen. Unfortunately for the teacher, being a dumbass isn't a Constitutional right. Glad he got suspended. Hopefully he can find a nice teaching job in Iran.

So is this the free speech we want our kids to learn? Teach them to speak out against our goverment. Teach them to have an open mind to politics and such. Teach them to discrace our country? HELL NO! this ass hole teacher should loose his job!

There is NOTHING wrong teaching with questioning the government (note that this isn't nazi germany or the saddam regime) or having an open mind towards politics.

But I'm quite sure they don't need to torch a flag to teach kids about free speech. And as MRIH pointed out...risking setting the school ablaze is not a good idea

I'm with everyone here....there are much better ways to teach freedom of speech other than to burn a flag (which by the way, isn't even really a speech thing, more of an expression thing...but I guess they go hand in hand?)

Honestly, I don't think people who burn flags need to go to jail..but I certainly don't have any respect for them....I respect our country...enough to have served 4 years in the military and have a husband who has 10 in and another 10 to go before retirement....I respect our flag, and support our country...

I would be highly upset if I found out a teacher in my child's class had done something like that.....school is about learning FACTS not OPINIONS.

The teacher was probably one of those "fuck authority" retards growing up. It frightens me that this attitude can apparently stick with someone until adulthood.

I'm annoyed that someone could be so retarded as to start a fire in a classroom. Wake up, teacher. Your students have no free speech rights and neither should you.

But what really annoys me is that people apparently don't know anything about boundaries. There's a time to be an anti-establishment, counter culture dick There's also a time to just grin and bear it, and deal with the fact that you need to straighten up for five minutes and comply. I said that in a job interview and they loved it, by the way.

This teacher shouldn't be allowed to teach anymore. He's a selfish man, endangering a classroom full of students (not to mention the whole school) just so he could make a last attempt at being edgy. Uhm, do I want people like this in public every day? No.

Let's give a nationwide IQ test, shall we? Anyone over 18 who doesn't meet my intelligence standards will be launched into the sun.

The true test of free speech is when someone says something you disagree with. Do I think this was the best way to show free speech? No. Should the teacher have been suspended for it? That depends on his fire safety precautions. What he did was disrespctful to the flag and America, sure, but we are talking about Kentucky here (pretty consertative, midwestern and probably very patriotic.)

Probably taght those kids more about free speech than any other teacher ever has or will.

Isn't that what teachers are supposed to do? Teach?

The true test of free speech is when someone says something you disagree with. Do I think this was the best way to show free speech? No. Should the teacher have been suspended for it? That depends on his fire safety precautions. What he did was disrespctful to the flag and America, sure, but we are talking about Kentucky here (pretty consertative, midwestern and probably very patriotic.)

 

Probably taght those kids more about free speech than any other teacher ever has or will.

 

Isn't that what teachers are supposed to do? Teach?

Maybe that teacher needs to go to Columbia U and work. They are all about free speech there. Ask The Minutemen.

IMHO if you burn Old Glory you should be found guilty of treason and hung by the neck until dead. Slow death. Just like they would have done back in the good old days.

The true test of free speech is when someone says something you disagree with. Do I think this was the best way to show free speech? No. Should the teacher have been suspended for it? That depends on his fire safety precautions. What he did was disrespctful to the flag and America, sure, but we are talking about Kentucky here (pretty consertative, midwestern and probably very patriotic.)

 

Probably taght those kids more about free speech than any other teacher ever has or will.

 

Isn't that what teachers are supposed to do? Teach?

So if the teacher had told a student "Let's go fuck." that would have been a great free speech lesson.

Hugo-

Obsceneties are hardly a rarity these days, so the words themselves would have little effect.

As for the deed: not much of a political statement (or any other kind of statement) in a teacher having sex with a student is there?

Hugo-

Obsceneties are hardly a rarity these days, so the words themselves would have little effect.

 

As for the deed: not much of a political statement (or any other kind of statement) in a teacher having sex with a student is there?

From a teacher? Lets go fuck would have little effect? Yeah right.

While teaching our kids we do need to show both sides. Burning the flag might be free speech to one but highly offensive to another. What are you trying to bring a crossed by burning the flag? You disagree with the government on a certain subject or just in general? Or you hate America and everything it stands for? I tend to think it's the latter. If that

If that

And you can use your freedom of speech to say so.

 

For the record Snafu, I don't agree with flag burning. Seeing someone do it out of disrespect for our country, our people and those that fight for our freedoms pisses me off. (If you wanna burn a flag outta hated for the US, fine. Just wrap yourself up in it first.)

 

 

But those same people that are fighting for my freedom to say whatever I want, are fighting for those that I disagree with's freedom to say what they want. It has to be a two way street, or it won't work.

Yes I agree with that. Everybody has a right in that aspect.

And to me its' just cloth but the idea of it is to spit on everything our for fathers fought for and for the shock value. The fuckers wouldn't even be able to do that without them.

And you can use your freedom of speech to say so.

 

For the record Snafu, I don't agree with flag burning. Seeing someone do it out of disrespect for our country, our people and those that fight for our freedoms pisses me off. (If you wanna burn a flag outta hated for the US, fine. Just wrap yourself up in it first.)

 

 

But those same people that are fighting for my freedom to say whatever I want, are fighting for those that I disagree with's freedom to say what they want. It has to be a two way street, or it won't work.

The difference is tax dollars are paying the flag burning teacher's salary. The difference is the students most likely had no choice but to peacefully watch the flag burning. Free speech does not mean that others are forced to hear your message.

Secondly, though with government employees there are added protections, by and large the bill of rights does not apply to the workplace.

You have the right to use your private resources to spread your message, not public resources.

The difference is tax dollars are paying the flag burning teacher's salary. The difference is the students most likely had no choice but to peacefully watch the flag burning. Free speech does not mean that others are forced to hear your message.

 

Secondly, though with government employees there are added protections, by and large the bill of rights does not apply to the workplace.

 

You have the right to use your private resources to spread your message, not public resources.

Thanks hugo. I could'nt find the right words. Maybe I should lay of the drugs.

A teacher has no right to do this.....

And this is why.

As others have pointed out, the student's problably didn't have a choce in watching this, and that violates their constitutional rights, freedom of speech does NOT cover anything that violates others rights.

Also, this was a fire hazard and is against the law becouse it was obviosly not conducted in a controlled manner.

This IS subjecting students to the teachers personal opinion, something that is forbidden by all school distrect policy in the united states.

That is the legal reasons why it is not allowed and why he really did get off easy with only a suspension.

The moral reasons,

teachers have been awarded a substantal increase in pay over the past years and when compaired to other bublic servise that is just as vital, it is actually unfare the way they are being paid, i don't care if you teach the children, you should do it becouse you feel it's right, not for a bigger fucking paycheck. But never the less, assholes like this seem to think that is not enough and dispise the government over some shit or another even though the government is NOT obligated to keep paying their asses since the constitution states that the school system is a state run affair.

Also, the simple act of showing young people that it's 'OK' to hate your country for your own shortcomings and calling it 'free speach' is something only an insecure imbicile would do, he should be removed from teaching for abusing his position of influence to push his own beleafs.

that being said, this reminds me of when my history teacher told our class that we should all go to see 'An inconveniant trouth' (that one cry for attention by al' gore) she said that we must learn about how we are ruining our planet, and all this bullshit about gore being a good smart man, ETC.....

I IMEDEATLY told her that she had no right telling us what she thought about how the country was good or bad or who is a better political figure (she made slandaras remarks abour President Bush) and that she should think before speaking to the class in such a way again, i also told her that she should look into the history of global tempurature and ozone fluxuation throught history before speaking something as a 'fact' (given that she is a history teacher this should be easy, as i pointed out to her)

i can quite honestly say that's the forst time i thought i was going to be murdered by an old liberal woman with a yardstick......

(no i wasn't harmed/punished, she said that if i ever speak to a teacher like that again i'd be expelled, but after that class went as normal)

anyway, that's my 2 cents, nitpick at it at will (not like i can stop you)

The difference is tax dollars are paying the flag burning teacher's salary. The difference is the students most likely had no choice but to peacefully watch the flag burning. Free speech does not mean that others are forced to hear your message.

 

Secondly, though with government employees there are added protections, by and large the bill of rights does not apply to the workplace.

 

You have the right to use your private resources to spread your message, not public resources.

That is an excellent point.

Also, this was a fire hazard and is against the law becouse it was obviosly not conducted in a controlled manner.

Just how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Just how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Do you think that the teacher would burn the flag in a metal or other non-flamable container? or do you think that in his effort to demonstrate 'freedom of speech' to the class he would simply light it on fire at the front of the class? not to mention that (where i go to school at least) the only place you are legally permitted to light any kind of fire is the lab room, and (i'm not sure about this) but i think that all teachers need to clear the 'lesson' plan with administration if it is non-standard.

Do you think that the teacher would burn the flag in a metal or other non-flamable container? or do you think that in his effort to demonstrate 'freedom of speech' to the class he would simply light it on fire at the front of the class? not to mention that (where i go to school at least) the only place you are legally permitted to light any kind of fire is the lab room, and (i'm not sure about this) but i think that all teachers need to clear the 'lesson' plan with administration if it is non-standard.

I have no idea how it was conducted, and frankly, neither do you. To say

this was a fire hazard and is against the law becouse it was obviosly not conducted in a controlled manner.

It very well could have been done in a metal can, or a lab, or with firefighters present for all you or I know.

The safety issues, I agree with. The whole "treason" bullshit, not so much. Until you actually use violence against a government, I don't think there should be a problem ... Unless of course that government isn't truly free, in which case, y'know. I mean, if treason extends not only to actions detrimental to governents, but to symbols and ideologies as well, you could consider someone like Mathama Gandhi guilty of treason.

Personally, I support someone's right to think whatever way they want, as long as they hurt no one else. As that includes burning any flag, religious or philosophical symbol, etc. as you see fit. Including the ones that I associate myself with. Feel free to take a shit on a poster that features the "anarchy is order" symbol. As long as you're not trying to make your views my views by way of force, do whatever you want.

That being said, in this case, I think it would've been better to bring up the topic of flag burning or pop in a video demonstrating the act, rather than actually burning a flag himself, in order to get his point across.

I have no idea how it was conducted, and frankly, neither do you. To say

is a completely ignorant statement.

 

It very well could have been done in a metal can, or a lab, or with firefighters present for all you or I know.

A Stuart Middle School teacher has been removed from the classroom after he burned two American flags in class during a lesson on freedom of speech. Dan Holden, who teaches seventh-grade social studies, burned small flags in two different classes Friday and asked students to write an opinion paper about it. Holden has been temporarily reassigned to non-instructional duties pending a district investigation. Roberts said the flag burning did not appear to be politically motivated.

hm, not much on safety, or a can, or firefighters, or a lab room, so I'm the ignorant one? i actually looked into this further than what was posted to learn more before i said anything, did you? how about you find me a single paragraph on this story that includes the teacher in question's apparent 'safety precautions' if you can't find anything to prove that he did anything to be safe about it, than don't try to explain to me how I'm so ignorant. especially when your ignorance of the situation is the basis of your reasoning.