What does the right to burn the flag represent?

One of the most defining rights of americans is free speech. Most f us take it for granted. There is also a defining expression of this free speech that most expresses what it is to be american. The right to burn the flag. I am not saying this is an american past time or anything or that it is even an american right per say. But I am saying that it represents our greatest right, our right to speak out against our govt. I know bush has been a complete ass about all this patriotism bulshit and great nationalism but now he is about to see that our greatest right and the right that most seperates us from most of the world. So much for America.......

 

House Approves Flag-Burning Amendment

Wed Jun 22, 3:08 PM

 

WASHINGTON - The House on Wednesday approved a constitutional amendment that would give Congress the power to ban desecration of the American flag, a measure that for the first time stands a chance of passing the Senate as well.

 

By a 286-130 vote - eight more than needed - House members approved the amendment after a debate over whether such a ban would uphold or run afoul of the Constitution's free-speech protections.

 

Approval of two-thirds of the lawmakers present was required to send the bill on to the Senate, where activists on both sides say it stands the best chance of passage in years. If the amendment is approved in that chamber by a two-thirds vote, it would then move to the states for ratification.

 

Supporters said the measure reflected patriotism that deepened after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, and they accused detractors of being out of touch with public sentiment.

 

"Ask the men and women who stood on top of the (World) Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: pass this amendment."

 

But Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., said, "If the flag needs protection at all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents."

 

The measure was designed to overturn a 1989 decision by the Supreme Court, which ruled 5-4 that flag burning was a protected free-speech right. That ruling threw out a 1968 federal statute and flag-protection laws in 48 states. The law was a response to anti-Vietnam war protesters setting fire to the American flag at their demonstrations.

 

The proposed one-line amendment to the Constitution reads, "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States." For the language to be added to the Constitution, it must be approved not only by two-thirds of each chamber but also by 38 states within seven years.

 

Each time the proposed amendment has come to the House floor, it has reached the required two-thirds majority. But the measure has always died in the Senate, falling short of the 67 votes needed. The last time the Senate took up the amendment was in 2000, when it failed 63-37.

 

But last year's elections gave Republicans a four-seat pickup in the Senate, and now proponents and critics alike say the amendment stands within a vote or two of reaching the two-thirds requirement in that chamber.

 

By most counts, 65 current senators have voted for or said they intend to support the amendment, two shy of the crucial tally. More than a quarter of current senators were not members of that chamber during the last vote.

 

The Senate is expected to consider the measure after the July 4th holiday.

 

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The amendment is H.J. Res 10.

 

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On the Net:

 

House of Representatives: http://www.house.gov

 

Senate: http://www.senate.gov

You seem to hold a bias since you think democrats are for flag burning as free speech and republican are against it. That seems illogical since to amend the constitution a large majority of the citizens must agree with the vote in the congress... I think any amendment should be passed to the states that is approved by a simple majority of congress and let the citizens decide if they agree with their elected representatives vote after giving the matter some thought.

 

It simply makes more sense than letting an un-elected court decide for the masses.

 

I'll bet you a case of beer that 90% of senators up for reelection will vote yes. I say this because the people who most care are the older generation who will show up and vote them out of office on that vote alone.

 

I would support the amendment because burning the flag only supports the free speech of those who are anti war since that is when it always comes up. Hate America sucks to the point I often wish to take back my service to America for such a hateful and ungrateful crowd. I think those who find it necessary to burn the flag should be hung from the pole of the Iwo Gima statue and left there for three days so their point gets across.

 

Fuck the hate America crowd! If they can't speak with their mouth effectively to get their point across then they have no point. Americans should keep their fucking mouths shut and lighters in their pockets after a majority of citizens representatives decide a law, policy or war action. Vote for another person that reflects your dissaproval and if you are in the majority then the problem is solved without burning the flag.

UMM exactly when did I say this was a party thing? Democrats are just as guilty of getting sucked into false patriotism and nationalism bullshit and the masses are so scared anymore that the first thing they have to do when they get up is check what color day is it. Yello orange or red. And I figure that if the idiots caught up in nationalism can run around flying the flag up everyone's nose for their gain then those that oppose it should be able to burn the flag for their own reasons. I bet you are one of those idiots that would bash someone for flying their flag upside down too, that is if you even know what that means.

 

Gods you say one thing agains the bullshit nationalism in this country and everyone assumes you must be some sap liberal. I feel sorry for people like that really. To have so little control over your own thoughts is just sad

UMM exactly when did I say this was a party thing? Democrats are just as guilty of getting sucked into false patriotism and nationalism bullshit and the masses are so scared anymore that the first thing they have to do when they get up is check what color day is it. Yello orange or red. And I figure that if the idiots caught up in nationalism can run around flying the flag up everyone's nose for their gain then those that oppose it should be able to burn the flag for their own reasons. I bet you are one of those idiots that would bash someone for flying their flag upside down too, that is if you even know what that means.

 

Gods you say one thing agains the bullshit nationalism in this country and everyone assumes you must be some sap liberal. I feel sorry for people like that really. To have so little control over your own thoughts is just sad

The flag flown upside down indicates distress. How could America be in distress if a majority of elected officials representing the majority decided to do any damned thing they desired? If you don't fucking like what the democratically elected majority decides overthrow the government or shut the fuck up! Simple as that! The alternative is to elect Howard Dean or Dennis K. and give head to enemies but they only drew about 3% of the vote as I recall.

 

Shut the fuck up if you don't have the majority on your side or put the majority on your side. You are now free to have your free speech.

Ouch, nice comeback.

 

 

Now for the Liberal, Catholic 1/2 breeds comments.

 

I can't tell you HOW MUCH , I hate many of the things that go on in America, behind Americans backs. I am totally DISGUSTED by the patriot act, and, I believe the war in Iraq was not needed, yet feel now that the boys are there, they might as well just get'ter done.

 

I despise the powers that be who now control our government and the livelihood of every man woman and child in America. I feel very betrayed by a government that is elected to serve the people of America, yet feel it is there need to interfere with another country's sovereign state. And justify the cause as LIBERATION, it literally makes me sick. BUT.... I would NOT EVER burn the American flag as a sign of protest to the government. Here's why...

 

The American flag IS AMERICA, it has changed over the years as America has grown. Stars were added to represent each state. The flag we have now represents EVERY STATE in a star and stripes that represent the original colonies who founded this country... which also reminds me of what else it symbolizes. It symbolizes the LAWS that this country was founded on. Laws that in my opinion, will NEVER be worthy of change by ANYBODY !! Oh times they will change, but the founding laws of this country should never change.

 

Burning a flag IS NOT protesting the government, it is MOCKING the FOUNDING LAWS of this country. To burn the flag is the same to say you burn the constitution which was designed to protect you, not from the enemy, but FROM THE GOVERNMENT YOU FUCKING IDIOTS !!!

 

If one is UNHAPPY with there government, then one only needs to look to the flag for inspiration into the start of that flag and the start of this country.

 

To get away from a government that was controlling (Britain), to form a NEW GOVERNMENT put forward FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE. Did some of you people just SLEEP threw American History class, or maybe just squeak by with a C- ??

 

If you hate your government, stand behind your flag, and call for there IMPEACHMENT !!!

 

If a majority of Americans agree, it will be done.... As is still our constitutional right....at least until someone completely does away with it..... maybe you dismiss the Patriot Act as a means of protecting your security. I see it as a means of violating others privacy. But even worse, I see it as a MOCKERY of our Constitution

 

Fuck you if you don't agree with me. But I stand behind only the FOUNDING LAWS of AMERICA, not the NEW WAVE LAWS.

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Burning a flag IS NOT protesting the government, it is MOCKING the FOUNDING LAWS of this country. To burn the flag is the same to say you burn the constitution which was designed to protect you, not from the enemy, but FROM THE GOVERNMENT YOU FUCKING IDIOTS !!!

 

You know, I kinda have a feeling that the founding fathers would slit their throats if they saw what goes on today. And apparently the constitution isn't doing a great job, because the powers that be can amend the constitution and take away my rights. And I don't feel all that protected because my tax money is being spent on a war I didn't want to happen instead of healthcare or schooling. They take my money and essentially spend it on beer and guns that I will never drink/use. So I have a slight feeling that the protection that you insist is there actually has no basis whatsoever. In fact, THE PRESIDENT can control all three part of our government. I'm sure that you know this, but here is how.

 

 

1. President gets elected.

2. President's party controls house and senate.(this is more of an if statement really)

3. Judges die or need to be appointed. President brings them in according to political party.

4. All people in president's party like him just because he is president.

5. He uses this to influence them.

 

There you have it. It is actually happening right now in the government.

I wish people would learn to stand behind our founding laws a little more and give the government that they so hate the heave ho that they deserve.

 

 

Instead, people FEAR the government... why ???

 

Could it POSSIBLY BE because we follow a fucking FASCIST NAZI LIKE system now ??

 

The fucking government is now saying to us... TRUST US, WE KNOW WHAT WERE DOING, THERES THINGS YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION, AND THERES THINGS WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT YOU FOR OTHERS PROTECTION. And people call that SECURING AMERICA.

 

No I'm sorry all you flag burning fucks. By burning that flag you are turning your back on the nation that give you the RIGHT to protest the government.

 

By burning that flag, you are just the same as saying you are no longer an American, and you should be promptly exiled to another country.

 

I don't care WHAT law you find in the constitution that says you can burn it.

 

You need to ask yourself how long it will be, before BURNING THAT FLAG, or IMPEACHING THAT PRESIDENT will be viewed by the government as a TERRORIST ACT. I don't care if you love the government or hate the government. The American flag stands for the right to CHANGE that government. Anybody who burns it, only proves they are NOT American, it has nothing to do with being ANTI GOVERNMENT.

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Why the hell don't they just pass a law requiring that any company that mass produces flags for retail sale to make them out of fire retardent material. Seems that it would cut down on alot of this nonsense if people had to make their own flags in order to burn them. Or is that just to simple of an idea?

HHMM Keep quiet unless you have the majority on your side. YA that's it!!! That's how to get things done!!!!!! GEESH That has to be about the most UNAmerican thing I have ever heard

HHMM Keep quiet unless you have the majority on your side. YA that's it!!! That's how to get things done!!!!!! GEESH That has to be about the most UNAmerican thing I have ever heard

 

What? Your not making any sense. Burn the flag. Roll up a joint and have you a stars and stripes blunt for all I care. I was just saying that if their so fucking concerned about a flag why not do something to protect it instead of pass laws to criminalize the defacing of the flag.

 

Oh, I get it. Your stupid. Thats it is'nt it? Your stupid therefore comprehension has once again eluded your grasp. Think before you type you buttfucker.

I forgot to quote (sorry) I was referring to crispy's oh so insightful post. I will get around to remembering to quote one of these days. I just firmly believe that the right to burn the flag represents our unique right and ability in this country to speak out publically against our government. Isn't that one of the things we were so intent on giving to Iraq? The right to speak out without fear of being prosecuted or worse for it?

I forgot to quote (sorry) I was referring to crispy's oh so insightful post. I will get around to remembering to quote one of these days. I just firmly believe that the right to burn the flag represents our unique right and ability in this country to speak out publically against our government. Isn't that one of the things we were so intent on giving to Iraq? The right to speak out without fear of being prosecuted or worse for it?

 

 

No prob. Then I retract my statement about your suspected retardation. As well I agree on the issue of the flag. Burn it. Stick it up your ass and shit it out, whatever. Its just cloth and dye. You couldn't be more correct with your Iraq analogy. Bush gives with one hand and takes with the other.

hey TIZZ.....look up in the sky.... ITS A DEAD BIRD !!!

 

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EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!! Damn it managed to take a big crap on my head before it croaked

As the official Reality Party Candidate of '08, I declare that I will make it legal to burn the flag, but..... Illegal to display anything other than the American flag on you rear view mirror, and it will now be legal to stab people in the face who either burn the american flag or display anything other than the stars and stripes on thier rear view mirror....

 

Fullauto.... The people's Chancellor!

 

"Ich bin nicht de Anti-Christ!"

I dont' like it,

but I got goose bumbs when I saw Sadams statue fall.

 

I guess if it

I personally have no problem in the rebel flag expecially since the fed govt has still not created financial equality between teh norhtern and southern economies. Too many people still insist on relating the south to slavery and ignorance and nothing else. Granted Clinton didn't help the cause but come on now folks

Flag Burning eh?

 

Well it's definatly freedom of expression and a strong statment against a government but personly i don't think it's the way to go. The first and most simple of these reasons this; It is THAT VERY FLAG that gives you the freedom to burn it. Now for most people respect is something lost on them, you can merely think about how many signs of repsect we have in our society that accually mean anything to people and you'll realize how little it means to us. I'd like to think that we could all respect a flag, if not all flags then atleast our own. I've seen people crying when their flag is burned, and i've seen people ripping their flags off the poles, whcih of these 2 actions do you think represents a stonger emotion or connection? Simple respect is one thing i feel that we dearly need to foster in our society, it can start with the flag but it needs to go everywhere. Make people put value on things, care about them and then you'll start seeing your drastic societal reform. A soldier whole-heartly saluting their flag is a sight indeed, but they can just as easly slaut their CO or or a fallen commrad with the same caring, the same repsect. With such an attachment to something un-selfish you will see a perosn that is less selfish in much of their lives. (i'm not claiming all soldiers are great people, but a good soldier is a good example) The salut is a sign or respect that is to be, well respected. If the common folk had more ways of conveying respect, true respect, then maybe real respect would play a greater part in theri lives.

 

Its assholes who just burn and such for whtever asshole reason, abuse of their right, that anger me. But it IS their right, like it or not i am willing to accept it (tolerence is importent as well). But i believe the flag to be as importent to some people as their respective religious icons (Holy Crosses, Star or David etc..) And i'm not one for defiling people religious beliefs either. Bruning CAN be a statment against government but i believe that it is more abused then anything and that there are acual EFFECTIVE means of trying to change things. Maybe if they'd saluted their flag more then it would hurt to much to burn it.

I would have no problem burning a confederate flag though

 

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Re: What does the right to burn the flag represent?

 

it means you are a low-life scumbag.

 

it means you are saying the hell with everyone who has died for it.

 

every time i have seen some asshole doing it they are surrounded by all thier little buddies. funny how you never see one of them do it in front of a vet or current serviceman 1 on one.

 

in boot camp and regular service it is drilled into your head that that flag represents EVERYTHING you stand for. how dare a little sissy hippie wanna- be try to destroy it.

Gentillhomme,

 

I totally agree with what you are saying and personally think it is kind of childish to burn thte flag (I may have thought about it when I was an idedalistic teen) but I think it is the fact that you CAN in this country that sets it apart from so many others. I am not saying people should burn the flag just because they can, but that they should not take the right to speak out against the govt for granted and allow the government to slowly strip such an amazing right from our fingertips. It is symbolic of so much more. It is more than free speech it is being able to stand up in public and say your president is an ass!!!!! Or what ever you want (within reason of course) how many other nations share such a devine right? In this country everyone is supposed to be equal and share the same rights, not just those that pledge their allegence to an ever changing govt but also those that oppose the current govt and love this country enough to see it change or restored. A soldier cannot go into battle thinking he is only protecting the rights of the patriotic nationalists, but that he is preserving a sacred ideal that all are equal.

When it comes to things like the Confederate flag i'ld still leave it be. I don't agree with the many dum things associated with it (factuel or not) but i do reconize that it is a representation of somebody else beliefs. In this particular it has been abused as an excuse for nationalism and breeding ignorence, by the ignorent, but there are people who hold to it's ideals (i'm not terribly familier with them, but slavery comes to mind) Now if thats wht they believe in then fine, let them. But its when ppl start usiing their icons (or anything really) to propigate harmful beliefs/ harm people that we must make our stand and lay down the shit. It would be nice to just float them folk off on their own little island to live however the hell they want and leave everyone who just wants to live their lives as is, alone

So just as people can use the name of gad to do harm to others, they can use the flag as the same justification?

No, just as people can worship as they wish so long as they don't harm people or spred hate, a flag is NOT excuse for harming others and things of the like.

 

"Now if thats wht they believe in then fine, let them. But its when ppl start usiing their icons (or anything really) to propigate harmful beliefs/ harm people that we must make our stand and lay down the shit."

 

Did you miss that line?

If a person feels the need to burn a flag, they should at least have the balls to wrap themselves up in it first so that they can make a truelly inspirational political statement.