VENEZUELANS REJECT CHAVEZ'S PLANS! HEY LIEBERALS, ARE YOU PAYINGATTENTION???

[Guest Bert Hyman]

jkraus1999@gmail.com (Jerry Kraus) wrote in

news:a166cd02-c6c2-49db-ace1-82c5e1bb7c45@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> Well,

 

Why are you still reading my posts?

 

After all, you just demanded that I "go away."

 

--

Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

[Guest Herbert Cannon]

> You know, I hear the "Harry Potter" books make excellent reading

> material for adults with limited literacy, trying to improve their

> reading and writing skills.

 

I think you have read too many of them and now live in a make believe world.

You may want to try some books on real world subjects. Would you like a

list?

 

You might take them out from the library

> sometime. You do know what a library is, don't you?

 

Yes I am quite well read. How about you?

[Guest Jerry Kraus]

On Dec 3, 2:50 pm, SteveL <steve...@deletethisbitntlworld.com> wrote:

> On 03 Dec 2007 20:35:40 GMT, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> >steve...@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote in

> >news:fbidnSt_ooRr-8nanZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@giganews.com:

>

> >> If so, how do you explain the defeat?

>

> >Chavez explained his defeat before the vote:

>

> >http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=76796

>

> > CIA agents and foreign secret services in at least three

> > concrete subversive plots to destabilize the Chavez

> > government and obstructing the Referendum

>

> >http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7470

>

> > On November 26, 2007 the Venezuelan government broadcast and

> > circulated a confidential memo from the US embassy to the CIA

> > which is devastatingly revealing of US clandestine operations

> > and which will influence the referendum this Sunday (December

> > 2, 2007).

>

> >See?

>

> The CIA has a history of doing just that in South America. So it

> wouldn't be beyond the pale. But leaving that aside all I see is a

> politician making excuses for a (predicted) defeat just like

> politicians do everywhere.

>

> You guys keep taking attributes of western democracies and their

> politicians and pretending that when Chavez behaves in just those ways

> that's actual evidence that he's behaving like a dictator.

>

> As people have said, let's see what he does after the defeat. Only

> then will we know.

>

> In the meantime. real dictators don't make excuses for defeat at the

> polls, they merely pretend they won.- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

 

Chavez is basically an idealist in an uncertain position. He's a

potential Castro, but Castro wasn't really that bad a fellow either.

His options were limited. He did the best he could.

 

Once we get rid of Bush and implement some economic reforms

domestically, South America will restabilize, and the temptations of

Communism will recede. As I say, my nickname for Bush is "Instant

Communism". He makes Communism look good, as an alternative to

imperialistic fascism.

[Guest Herbert Cannon]

> Bert, go away. You're saying nothing, and you know it. Go off and

> play.

You have wandered into a newsgroup full of martial artists. For your own

safety dont wander into any dojos.

[Guest Bert Hyman]

stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote in

news:daWdnb-aL52C8cnaRVnyggA@giganews.com:

> You guys keep taking attributes of western democracies and their

> politicians and pretending that when Chavez behaves in just those

> ways that's actual evidence that he's behaving like a dictator.

 

What officeholders in contemporary "western democracies" are actively

nationalizing private industry?

 

Besides, is "But Mommy! They did it TOOOOO!" really the sort of

national platform we should admire?

 

--

Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

[Guest Jerry Kraus]

On Dec 3, 2:52 pm, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:

> jkraus1...@gmail.com (Jerry Kraus) wrote innews:a166cd02-c6c2-49db-ace1-82c5e1bb7c45@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

>

> > Well,

>

> Why are you still reading my posts?

>

> After all, you just demanded that I "go away."

>

> --

> Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | b...@iphouse.com

 

Bert, will stop whining please?

[Guest Bert Hyman]

stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote in

news:daWdnb-aL52C8cnaRVnyggA@giganews.com:

> In the meantime. real dictators don't make excuses for defeat at

> the polls, they merely pretend they won.

 

Actually they do make such excuses and use them as a pretext to

ignore the results of the elections and take power by force in order

to save the nation.

 

--

Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

[Guest Bert Hyman]

jkraus1999@gmail.com (Jerry Kraus) wrote in

news:b571a954-3eb9-47e7-9017-a4e517d17ccc@s36g2000prg.googlegroups.com

:

> Bert

 

Geez... You just can't stay away, can you?

 

--

Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

[Guest SteveL]

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:06:13 -0500, Mark Goldberg

<msgoldberg@optonline.net> wrote:

>You dumb pimp, you dumbass cross posting leftist... why am I not surprised?

 

So ,by your own criteria you must be a dumbass cross posting rightist?

 

You're keeping the group list of the original poster intact, just like

Kraus is. You're every bit as much a cross poster as he is.

 

I don't see you ripping the originator a new one for cross posting to

all those political non-martial arts groups.

[Guest Herbert Cannon]

Obviously he is putting you on. A moron and a wimp. Whadda combination.

[Guest Jerry Kraus]

On Dec 3, 2:56 pm, "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote:

> > Bert, go away. You're saying nothing, and you know it. Go off and

> > play.

>

> You have wandered into a newsgroup full of martial artists. For your own

> safety dont wander into any dojos.

 

Actually, people as stupid as you are don't frighten me much. Sorry

to disappoint. Although, it tends to explain your fascination with

violence.

[Guest Herbert Cannon]

If he holds another referdum and wins, I am quite sure the left will defend

him inspite of the stench from the ballot box. Let's hope you dont have to

defend him.

[Guest Jerry Kraus]

On Dec 3, 2:57 pm, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:

> steve...@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote innews:daWdnb-aL52C8cnaRVnyggA@giganews.com:

>

> > In the meantime. real dictators don't make excuses for defeat at

> > the polls, they merely pretend they won.

>

> Actually they do make such excuses and use them as a pretext to

> ignore the results of the elections and take power by force in order

> to save the nation.

>

> --

> Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | b...@iphouse.com

 

 

When the U.S. restabilizes, so will the hemisphere, and to some extent

the world. Bush has created ripples of violence and extremism

throughout the world.

[Guest Bert Hyman]

hcannon18@cox.net (Herbert Cannon) wrote in

news:ma_4j.1959$hO7.929@newsfe13.lga:

> Let's hope you dont have to defend him.

 

I hope so too; if he expects me to defend him, he'll be waiting in

the cold for a long time.

 

--

Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

[Guest Herbert Cannon]

> The only question that remains is whether you'll remain an entertaining

> troll like several of our RMA regulars or if you'll simply be boring and

> soon find your way into everyone's killfile.

 

I vote for the kill file. Hal does a much better job, owns a gun; and,

maybe, Hal can even punch someone. This guy is a real wimp.

[Guest SteveL]

On 03 Dec 2007 20:56:50 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:

>stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote in

>news:daWdnb-aL52C8cnaRVnyggA@giganews.com:

>

>> You guys keep taking attributes of western democracies and their

>> politicians and pretending that when Chavez behaves in just those

>> ways that's actual evidence that he's behaving like a dictator.

>

>What officeholders in contemporary "western democracies" are actively

>nationalizing private industry?

 

Why does it have to be "contemporary"? The UK, France, Sweden, Canada

have all nationalized industries only a generation ago. They were not

dictatorships.

 

At least I'm sure the UK Labour party would beg to differ.

>

>Besides, is "But Mommy! They did it TOOOOO!" really the sort of

>national platform we should admire?

 

You're morphing the subject there.

[Guest Jerry Kraus]

On Dec 3, 3:00 pm, SteveL <steve...@deletethisbitntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:06:13 -0500, Mark Goldberg

>

> <msgoldb...@optonline.net> wrote:

> >You dumb pimp, you dumbass cross posting leftist... why am I not surprised?

>

> So ,by your own criteria you must be a dumbass cross posting rightist?

>

> You're keeping the group list of the original poster intact, just like

> Kraus is. You're every bit as much a cross poster as he is.

>

> I don't see you ripping the originator a new one for cross posting to

> all those political non-martial arts groups.

 

I have no idea why this topic is on a martial arts site, myself.

Although there are some quite interesting loons here. Including

professional writers who failed grade six grammar, and never learned

it in later life! I guess morons would have quite a large market for

their ideas though. Makes sense when you think about it.

[Guest SteveL]

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:03:11 -0600, "Herbert Cannon"

<hcannon18@cox.net> wrote:

>

>If he holds another referdum and wins, I am quite sure the left will defend

>him inspite of the stench from the ballot box.

 

Well you guys are currently attacking him inspite of the distinct

lack of a stench from the ballot box.

[Guest Bert Hyman]

stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote in

news:CKednfZEEsKU7cnaRVnyuQA@giganews.com:

> On 03 Dec 2007 20:56:50 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:

>

>>stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote in

>>news:daWdnb-aL52C8cnaRVnyggA@giganews.com:

>>

>>> You guys keep taking attributes of western democracies and their

>>> politicians and pretending that when Chavez behaves in just those

>>> ways that's actual evidence that he's behaving like a dictator.

>>

>>What officeholders in contemporary "western democracies" are

>>actively nationalizing private industry?

>

> Why does it have to be "contemporary"?

 

Because if it was done in the past, the states in question saw the

error of their ways, or had it pointed out to them, and got over it.

> The UK, France, Sweden, Canada have all nationalized industries

> only a generation ago. They were not dictatorships.

 

State control of the economy is an important aspect of any

totalitarian regime. It's also an important aspect of an

authoritarian regime that has its eye on bigger things.

 

In fact, state control of the economy is one of the few "legitimate"

platforms in fascist or socialist states; the prison camps just come

about as a side-effect.

> At least I'm sure the UK Labour party would beg to differ.

>

>>

>>Besides, is "But Mommy! They did it TOOOOO!" really the sort of

>>national platform we should admire?

>

> You're morphing the subject there.

 

You're the guy who appears to be trying to excuse Chavez's behavior,

claiming that other "western democracies" behave the same way.

 

--

Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

[Guest Jerry Kraus]

On Dec 3, 3:12 pm, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:

> steve...@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote innews:CKednfZEEsKU7cnaRVnyuQA@giganews.com:

>

> > On 03 Dec 2007 20:56:50 GMT, Bert Hyman <b...@iphouse.com> wrote:

>

> >>steve...@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote in

> >>news:daWdnb-aL52C8cnaRVnyggA@giganews.com:

>

> >>> You guys keep taking attributes of western democracies and their

> >>> politicians and pretending that when Chavez behaves in just those

> >>> ways that's actual evidence that he's behaving like a dictator.

>

> >>What officeholders in contemporary "western democracies" are

> >>actively nationalizing private industry?

>

> > Why does it have to be "contemporary"?

>

> Because if it was done in the past, the states in question saw the

> error of their ways, or had it pointed out to them, and got over it.

>

> > The UK, France, Sweden, Canada have all nationalized industries

> > only a generation ago. They were not dictatorships.

>

> State control of the economy is an important aspect of any

> totalitarian regime. It's also an important aspect of an

> authoritarian regime that has its eye on bigger things.

>

> In fact, state control of the economy is one of the few "legitimate"

> platforms in fascist or socialist states; the prison camps just come

> about as a side-effect.

>

> > At least I'm sure the UK Labour party would beg to differ.

>

> >>Besides, is "But Mommy! They did it TOOOOO!" really the sort of

> >>national platform we should admire?

>

> > You're morphing the subject there.

>

> You're the guy who appears to be trying to excuse Chavez's behavior,

> claiming that other "western democracies" behave the same way.

>

> --

> Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | b...@iphouse.com

 

Most socialist states do not have "prison camps" Bert. And one could

argue that the U.S. does. Almost one percent of the entire U.S.

population is currently institutionalized, and almost three percent

are under some kind of judicial control

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_prison_population

 

This is far higher than any other country in the world, including

China. I realize that right-wing loons don't like hearing facts of

this type, but they are relevant. Capitalism breeds Gulags just as

well as Communism, if not better. And much better than democratic

socialism, which is the type of society we are currently moving

towards. Chavez seems to have communist leanings, but that is

because he fears the U.S./Mexican model. Communism is preferable to

that, of course. If you want to avoid communism, you will have to

accept democratic socialism. You may not like it, but you have no

choice.

[Guest SteveL]

On 03 Dec 2007 21:12:47 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:

 

>> You're morphing the subject there.

>

>You're the guy who appears to be trying to excuse Chavez's behavior,

>claiming that other "western democracies" behave the same way.

 

What "behavior"? Holding a fair referendum?

 

That's what I'm commenting on. I see a bunch of people attacking the

man for holding and losing a referendum, and implying (or worse)

that none of this matters. That win or lose he deserves to go down.

 

As for the rest. He's been elected. If he has a mandate from the

people to nationalize his country's industries then so be it. That's

democracy.

 

If they refuse to grant him that mandate then so be it. I'm in favor

of that too. That's democracy.

[Guest Bert Hyman]

stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com (SteveL) wrote in

news:boGdnQ0j2YvG7snanZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@giganews.com:

> As for the rest. He's been elected. If he has a mandate from the

> people to nationalize his country's industries then so be it.

> That's democracy.

 

Could that be done in our "democracy", or do you think that the

constitution might be an impediment? Do you think it should be an

impediment?

 

Minus the restrictions imposed by such a document, a democracy is

nothing but a self-serving mob. Or more often, a mob put into service

of someone who claims to be its sole representative.

 

--

Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

[Guest Herbert Cannon]

"Jerry Kraus" <jkraus1999@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1304773c-713a-41a8-bc08-e3b3fa927956@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...

> On Dec 3, 2:56 pm, "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno...@cox.net> wrote:

>> > Bert, go away. You're saying nothing, and you know it. Go off and

>> > play.

>>

>> You have wandered into a newsgroup full of martial artists. For your own

>> safety dont wander into any dojos.

>

> Actually, people as stupid as you are don't frighten me much.

 

Sonny, people as dumb as you frighten me a lot. If you get your way, I see

a nation of enslaved wimps.

Sorry

> to disappoint. Although, it tends to explain your fascination with

> violence.

Aww how touching a Mr. Non violent. You gonna march around the block with a

candle and chant take back the night next. Did anyone ever tell you that

when sheep flock together wolves are not frightened.

[Guest Shuurai]

> If you want to avoid communism, you will have to

> accept democratic socialism. You may not like it, but you have no

> choice.

 

Actually, we do have a choice. You may not like that we have a

choice, but that changes nothing.

[Guest Herbert Cannon]

>

> I have no idea why this topic is on a martial arts site, myself.

 

I am really puzzled how a wimp like you showed up here.

> Although there are some quite interesting loons here.

 

Yeah we have some left wing loons here too; however, I am quite certain

they could whip your butt in a heartbeat.

 

Including

> professional writers who failed grade six grammar, and never learned

> it in later life!

 

Took your lunch money from you?

 

I guess morons would have quite a large market for

> their ideas though.

 

You do? Where?

 

Makes sense when you think about it.

Not a thing you have been spouting has made any sense so far.