Guest Liz Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:32:30 -0600, Starkiller <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote: [---] >Read the new freaking testament for crying out loud if you want to >know. Just a few aspects are that you don't go around trying to >dominate and force anyone into your faith for starters. You don;t >commit genocide. Could you give me a reference for the "don't commit genocide" verse(s)? Many people reference the genocide committed by God and the Hebrews in the OT, and it would be nice it see that such action was countermanded in the NT. Liz #658 BAAWA Quote
Guest Starkiller Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:16:20 -0700, "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <ktayloraz@getnet.net> wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Roy Jose Lorr wrote: >> Raymond wrote: >> >>> On Jan 19, 7:26?pm, "Mr4701" <NoExi...@Earth.net> wrote: >>> >>>> A Godless person is just as bad as an overzealous person. Atheist >>>> Stalin had >>>> no more of a beef killing people than Islamofascist Osama Bin Laden. >>> >>> >>> And Catholic Hitler had no more of a beef killing people than Atheist >>> Stalin or Christian Episcopalean.....George Bush >> >> Hitler and stalin were and Bush is an atheist, self worshipers. How >> people define themselves to the world is hardly ever the reality. >> >Hitler, Catholic. >Stalin, Russian Orthodox. >Bush family, US Christian. > >Now, you were saying? >>> >>> Most political and religious leaders throughout history have had no >>> troulble killing millions of people----especially religious leaders. >>> Religion has everything to do with terrorism Anyone who doesn't >>> understand that has never been exposed to a decent history course or >>> history book. >> >> Anyone who takes history courses and books at face value needs a >> tutorial in reality. >> >>> >>> And we must not exclude the Jewish leaders---including the main Man >>> himself . G-d that is. >> >> Hmm... the obligatory anti God hysteria. >> >Hmmm, the obligatory projection, a RoyBoy special >>> >>> SEE Atrocities in the Bible. Shalom aleichem >>> http://thetruth.hypermart.net/bible/atrocities.htm >> >> Absolute exploitative insanity. >> >Projection. >>> >>> Also see: >>> http://www.geocities.com/shatila1982/masspictures.html >> >> Arab propaganda. >> >Ignornace. >>> >>> Catholics today all try to repudiate Adolf Hitler and deny that he was >>> a fellow Roman Catholic. But this was definitely not the case so long >>> as he was in power, In fact, Hitler could not have come to power >>> without the assistance of the Vatican and the German Catholic Church> >>> So long as Adolf Hitler was in power, his Roman Catholic Church never >>> questioned his Catholicism - at least not in public - which is where >>> it mattered politically.--- just as no one questions GW Bush's >>> Christianity >>> --- at least not in public - which is where it matters politically. >> >> Hitler could not have come to power without the support of the people, >> no matter their religious or anti religious affiliations. >> >Same with Bush. What's your point? > >Other then the fact that you like to overlook the obvious. The people >are swayed by their CHURCH! > >How do you think the empty hat got to 1600 twice? >>> >>> A man who is convinced of the truth of his religion is indeed never >>> tolerant. At the least, he is to feel pity for the adherent of another >>> religion but usually it does not stop there. The faithful adherent of >>> a religion will try first of all to convince those that believe in >>> another religion and usually he goes on to hatred if he is not >>> successful. However, hatred then leads to persecution when the might >>> of the majority is behind it. In the case of a Christian clergyman, >>> the tragic-comical is found in this: that the Christian religion >>> demands love from the faithful, even love for the enemy. This demand, >>> because it is indeed superhuman, he is unable to fulfill. Thus >>> intolerance and hatred ring through the oily words of the clergyman. >>> The love, which on the Christian side is the basis for the >>> conciliatory attempt towards Judaism is the same as the love of a >>> child for a cake. That means that it contains the hope that the object >>> of the love will be eaten up... >> >> You have just described the mental and physical behaviors of believers >> in the atheist religion. >> >For the last time dickless. > >Atheists don't have a religion. An atheist is someone that is not a >practitioner of any form of theism. Theism by and large are what twats >call religion. From your response it seems that you are every bit as adamant about it as any evangelical is regarding their religion. Argue semantics all day if you like but your behavior is very similar when confronted by someone that doesn't subscribe to your belief, or non belief as the case may be. Same reason a lot of folks refer to the "Religion of Global Warming". Not that it is a real religion but the behavior of the "believers" resemble that of someone devoutly religious. One of the definitions given of religion as a noun is : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith - Webster's. It doesn't necessarily equate solely to a belief in a God or deity. >>> >>> Letter to Rabbi Solomon Goldman of Chicago's Anshe Emet Congregation. >>> >>> "If I would follow your advice and Jesus could perceive it, he, as a >>> Jewish teacher, surely would not approve of such behavior." >>> >>> Reply to a Roman Catholic student urging him to pray to Jesus Christ, >>> the Virgin Mary, and convert to Christianity. >>> --- Albert Einstein >>> >>> ". I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not >>> believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And >>> if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such >>> an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence." >>> --- Bertrand Russell >> >> Russel the moron. >> >You misspelled Roy Jose Lorr. >>> >>> Let us prey >> >> Amen. >> >Bite me. Quote
Guest Karl Johanson Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 "Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote > Show us where anything that Hitler did was referenced in the Bible as > a teaching of Christ? The Bible says that every leader of every nation is there, because of god's will. It further says that people should follow them. If you believe the Christian Bible, you believe Hitler executed god's will. If you believe the Christian Bible, you believe that the Germans were under god's orders to do what their leader told them to do, as it was god's will. Fortunately, god is fictitious. I wish Hitler and most of his followers had known that. Karl Johanson Quote
Guest Karl Johanson Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 "Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I'll tell you like another previous poster. Get a bible and point > nout where Jesus teaches anything that you've listed in your little > diatribe to be the way to live. You list off all these folks that you > say were Christians but they are just individuals. If you want to > claim that they were acting upon their faith and what they were taught > in as far as what the Bible teaches in regards to Jesus then you > should have no problem showing where their ideology is taken from the > bible. If you can't then the religion of Christianity itself is not > at fault but rather those that falsely claim to be following that > faith are the true culprits. > So show us where Jesus taught any of the crap you listed or you got no > argument. The Bible is clear that Hitler and every other evil leader, are there because god wants them in power . It also says that people are supposed to follow those leaders. The god of the Bible is evil or fictitious. Karl Johanson Romans 13: "Submission to the Authorities 1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. " Quote
Guest Christopher A.Lee Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:40:06 -0500, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote: >On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:32:30 -0600, Starkiller ><NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >[---] >>Read the new freaking testament for crying out loud if you want to >>know. Just a few aspects are that you don't go around trying to >>dominate and force anyone into your faith for starters. You don;t >>commit genocide. What "faith" was he lying about? But of course by his logic he shouldn't use a computer or drive a car because the NT doesn't tell him to. Can't they think before saying something silly? >Could you give me a reference for the "don't commit genocide" >verse(s)? Many people reference the genocide committed by God and the >Hebrews in the OT, and it would be nice it see that such action was >countermanded in the NT. Why does he imagine the New Testament decides what a Christian is, for any but the most extreme literalists? It never did for two millennia. It has always meant somebody who is a member of a religion that worships Jesus Christ as its god. >Liz #658 BAAWA Quote
Guest Roy Jose Lorr Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Karl Johanson wrote: > "Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote > > >>Show us where anything that Hitler did was referenced in the Bible as >>a teaching of Christ? > > > The Bible says that every leader of every nation is there, because of > god's will. It further says that people should follow them. If you > believe the Christian Bible, you believe Hitler executed god's will. If > you believe the Christian Bible, you believe that the Germans were under > god's orders to do what their leader told them to do, as it was god's > will. Free will for humans, not determinism, is God's will. > > Fortunately, god is fictitious. I wish Hitler and most of his followers > had known that. They believed precisely that. Quote
Guest Karl Johanson Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 "Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote > On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:35:34 GMT, "Karl Johanson" > <karljohanson@shaw.ca> wrote: > >>"Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote >>> Raymond wrote: >>> >>>> On Jan 19, 7:26?pm, "Mr4701" <NoExi...@Earth.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>>A Godless person is just as bad as an overzealous person. Atheist >>>>>Stalin had >>>>>no more of a beef killing people than Islamofascist Osama Bin >>>>>Laden. >>>> >>>> >>>> And Catholic Hitler had no more of a beef killing people than >>>> Atheist >>>> Stalin or Christian Episcopalean.....George Bush >>> >>> Hitler and stalin were and Bush is an atheist, self worshipers. How >>> people define themselves to the world is hardly ever the reality. >> >>Hitler and Bush are clearly Christian. But the point is moot >>regardless. >>According to Christianity, God wanted Hitler, Bush and Stalin in >>power. >>Further, according to Christianity, god wanted people to obey them. >> >>Romans 13: "Submission to the Authorities 1Everyone must submit >>himself >>to >>the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which >>God >>has established. The authorities that exist have been established by >>God. >>2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling >>against >>what >>God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on >>themselves. >>3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who >>do >>wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then >>do >>what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do >>you >>good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword >>for >>nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on >>the >>wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, >>not >>only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. " >> >>Whether or not any given evil leader is Christian isn't the point. The >>point is that Christianity requires that people obey the orders of >>evil >>leaders. >> >>Just say "no". >> >>Karl Johanson >> > > And how many times have you all cited "Give unto Caeser that which is > due Caeser" when you talk about conservatives being against taxes? Me? Not even once. > And it still doesn't say that Christians should go out and commit > genocide and inquisitions. Your cites above basically just say that > you should obey the law of the land. And part of Hitler's law was to slaughter millions of people, all endorsed by the Bible. > Are you saying that it shouldn;t > be that way? You're fuckin A rightios I'm saying people shouldn't have followed Hitler's laws! The fact that some collection of superstitiousstories told Christians to do that, doesn't excuse those who followed Hitler. Karl Johanson Quote
Guest Karl Johanson Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 "Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote > Karl Johanson wrote: > >> "Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote >> >> >>>Show us where anything that Hitler did was referenced in the Bible as >>>a teaching of Christ? >> >> >> The Bible says that every leader of every nation is there, because of >> god's will. It further says that people should follow them. If you >> believe the Christian Bible, you believe Hitler executed god's will. >> If you believe the Christian Bible, you believe that the Germans were >> under god's orders to do what their leader told them to do, as it was >> god's will. > > Free will for humans, not determinism, is God's will. I didn't say it was determinism. I said the Bible orders Christians to follow every national leader. Lots of Christians did that, when Hitler was in power. Karl Johanson Quote
Guest Roy Jose Lorr Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 wbyeats@ireland.com wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:53:51 -0800, Roy Jose Lorr <Kenthz@comcast.net> > wrote: > > >>Raymond wrote: >> >> >>>On Jan 19, 7:26?pm, "Mr4701" <NoExi...@Earth.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>A Godless person is just as bad as an overzealous person. Atheist Stalin had >>>>no more of a beef killing people than Islamofascist Osama Bin Laden. >>> >>> >>>And Catholic Hitler had no more of a beef killing people than Atheist >>>Stalin or Christian Episcopalean.....George Bush >> >>Hitler and stalin were and Bush is an atheist, self worshipers. How >>people define themselves to the world is hardly ever the reality. > > > "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of > the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am > fighting for the work of the Lord." > > "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a > fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by > a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned > men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a > sufferer but as a fighter." > > Guess who said the above? There is as much evidence Hitler was a > Christian as that he was not. He does seem to believe in some type of > God so to profess that Hitler was an atheist is very dubious at best. You make my point. Politics has people saying all sorts of untruths. As I said. > > >>>Most political and religious leaders throughout history have had no >>>troulble killing millions of people----especially religious leaders. >>>Religion has everything to do with terrorism Anyone who doesn't >>>understand that has never been exposed to a decent history course or >>>history book. >> >>Anyone who takes history courses and books at face value needs a >>tutorial in reality. > > > So you're going to rewrite history to rationalize your ignorance? > Figures! Ignorance is taking necessarily biased accounts of history at face value. > > >>>And we must not exclude the Jewish leaders---including the main Man >>>himself . G-d that is. >> >>Hmm... the obligatory anti God hysteria. > > > Anti-God hysteria. The burden of proof is on the believers - not on > the non-believers. Now prove to us all that there is a God. Hint - > Kant couldn't and you can't. God needs no proof but since you insist: your existence is proof enough. > > >>>SEE Atrocities in the Bible. Shalom aleichem >>>http://thetruth.hypermart.net/bible/atrocities.htm >> >>Absolute exploitative insanity. > > > Excuse me - it's in the Bible and isn't everything in the Bible God's > honest truth? To what in the Bible do you refer? If all you're going to do is regurgitate garbage from that Jew hating web site you'll be engaging in a conceptually irrelevant act. > > >>>Also see: >>>http://www.geocities.com/shatila1982/masspictures.html >> >>Arab propaganda. > > > Yeah, right. And the Holocaust was Jewish propaganda foisted off by > the Rothschilds as truth. And the Inquisition was just a pop quiz. And > the Crusades a cruise on Holland-America. And pogroms were cheerleader > props. Denial suits you. PS - you and the Muslims have the exact same God. Bull. > > >>>Catholics today all try to repudiate Adolf Hitler and deny that he was >>>a fellow Roman Catholic. But this was definitely not the case so long >>>as he was in power, In fact, Hitler could not have come to power >>>without the assistance of the Vatican and the German Catholic Church> >>>So long as Adolf Hitler was in power, his Roman Catholic Church never >>>questioned his Catholicism - at least not in public - which is where >>>it mattered politically.--- just as no one questions GW Bush's >>>Christianity >>>--- at least not in public - which is where it matters politically. >> >>Hitler could not have come to power without the support of the people, >>no matter their religious or anti religious affiliations. > > > Of course - your point is? Read what you wrote above. > > >>>A man who is convinced of the truth of his religion is indeed never >>>tolerant. At the least, he is to feel pity for the adherent of another >>>religion but usually it does not stop there. The faithful adherent of >>>a religion will try first of all to convince those that believe in >>>another religion and usually he goes on to hatred if he is not >>>successful. However, hatred then leads to persecution when the might >>>of the majority is behind it. In the case of a Christian clergyman, >>>the tragic-comical is found in this: that the Christian religion >>>demands love from the faithful, even love for the enemy. This demand, >>>because it is indeed superhuman, he is unable to fulfill. Thus >>>intolerance and hatred ring through the oily words of the clergyman. >>>The love, which on the Christian side is the basis for the >>>conciliatory attempt towards Judaism is the same as the love of a >>>child for a cake. That means that it contains the hope that the object >>>of the love will be eaten up... >> >>You have just described the mental and physical behaviors of believers >>in the atheist religion. > > > Atheism is a religion? Beep - wrong. Nobody's out there signing up > converts. Bull. Atheism evangelizes. Or have you no idea of your fundamentalist, evangelical devotion to your own religion. > > >>> Letter to Rabbi Solomon Goldman of Chicago's Anshe Emet Congregation. >>> >>>"If I would follow your advice and Jesus could perceive it, he, as a >>>Jewish teacher, surely would not approve of such behavior." >>> >>>Reply to a Roman Catholic student urging him to pray to Jesus Christ, >>>the Virgin Mary, and convert to Christianity. >>>--- Albert Einstein >>> >>>". I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not >>>believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And >>>if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such >>>an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence." >>>--- Bertrand Russell >> >>Russel the moron. > > > Yup - Roy's the perfect ignorant Xtian - his mind's made up. Everyone > who doesn't believe in his brand of Xtianity is a moron. This includes > Russell, Kant, Einstein, Darwin, Galileo, and a cast of thousands. > Pretty good company. If there ever was a Jesus, (there's no proof of > his existence except for a footnote in an archaic text that refers to > a Christos) he'd be much more at home with those folks than with a > bunch of narrow-minded bigots. Typical atheist zealot's rant. Quote
Guest Roy Jose Lorr Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Liz wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:32:30 -0600, Starkiller > <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > [---] > >>Read the new freaking testament for crying out loud if you want to >>know. Just a few aspects are that you don't go around trying to >>dominate and force anyone into your faith for starters. You don;t >>commit genocide. > > > > Could you give me a reference for the "don't commit genocide" > verse(s)? Many people reference the genocide committed by God and the > Hebrews in the OT, and it would be nice it see that such action was > countermanded in the NT. Show where "genocide" is ordered in the Five Books of Moses (Genesis - Deuteronom). I suggest you learn the meaning of the term "genocide". Quote
Guest Starkiller Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:40:06 -0500, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote: >On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:32:30 -0600, Starkiller ><NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >[---] >>Read the new freaking testament for crying out loud if you want to >>know. Just a few aspects are that you don't go around trying to >>dominate and force anyone into your faith for starters. You don;t >>commit genocide. > > >Could you give me a reference for the "don't commit genocide" >verse(s)? Many people reference the genocide committed by God and the >Hebrews in the OT, and it would be nice it see that such action was >countermanded in the NT. > > >Liz #658 BAAWA Well, genocide specifically isn't mentioned of course but it definitely is not implied to be acceptable as killing in general is not very acceptable: I could see an argument if anywhere Jesus said that it was acceptable to kill for vengance or gain. For that matter he never even said that it was acceptable even for self defense. Here are a couple of "quotes": "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles." (Mat.5:33-41) Which, IMHO, shows the nature of what the religion of Christianity ought to be. Of course, not being perfect as described in the Bible, most folks aren't that good at being "perfect Christians". "Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him. And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest, and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?. But how then should the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?"... "But Jesus said, "No more of this!" And he touched his ear and healed him." (Mat.26:50-54, Lk.22:51)... The weapons Jesus left us are prayer and forgiveness, and love and service, trusting always in the Lord... never the sword, Jesus will bring the sword. Praying forgiveness for those who crucified him, "And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (Lk.23:34). Love and service and prayer and forgiveness were the weapons of Jesus, and love and service and prayer and forgiveness should always be the weapons of a Christian. ______________________________ Now. I don't even consider myself to even be a mediocre example of a Christian. Hell I may not even qualify to call myself Christian in terms of what the "Church" says a Christian is at all. But I do know that for the first deades, maybe centuries after Christ most of the Christians in the world were treated like dirt because of their non violent philosophy. A shitload were simply slaughtered. There have been a couple of responders that, for lack of any proof of their claims that Christianity is a "bloody" religion in it's teachings, want to throw out all kinds of examples and ask "Are they not Christians?" My answer is that they may be Christians but they do or did a very piss poor job of it according to what Jesus preached. I'm far from being fit to be any kind of true judge as far as what God considers Christian or not or even if it is a consideration. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to simply read what Jesus said and then look at how a lot of professed Christians do to figure out that they ain't doing it right. But that's why Christian ministers always talk about how people cannot be perfect and all God expects is for people to aspire to be like Christ. Even though they can never attain the same level of perfection. What I see as time goes by is fewer and fewer folks aspiring to anything other than a bigger check and a flatscreen HD TV. And those "aspiring" Christians are aspiring less and less in terms of being like Jesus.. I'm sure there can be tons of pages of threads written about how the Church keeps "adapting" and letting more and more slide in efforts to boost membership and donations and such but that's a whole different thread that someone else will have to start. Like I said I'm really really not very religious. I just know what the particular religion in question is supposed to be about. Hope what I did quote can be of some help. I'm sure you can find a lot more similar if you do the right searches. PS In a way I guess I can kinda understand the controversy as far as the atheists are concerned. There are indeed a lot of folks claiming that they are doing the "Christian" thing while doing exactly the opposite of what Jesus preached according to the Bible. Anyone not very familiar with the New Testament could very well get the impression that the religion itself teaches the wrong ideals by the way a lot of the "believers" behave. Quote
Guest Roy Jose Lorr Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Mike wrote: > > Roy Jose Lorr wrote: > >>>". I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not >>>believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And >>>if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such >>>an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence." >>>--- Bertrand Russell >> >>Russel the moron. > > > I take it then that you disagree with Russell and you believe that God > DOES, in fact, have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those > who doubt his existence? He's sympathetic to your low self esteem. > > >>>Let us prey > > > Preying is for xians, mantis' and other insects. Then you do prey. Quote
Guest Roy Jose Lorr Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Karl Johanson wrote: > "Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote > god wanted people to obey them. God wanted people to know them for what they are, examples of idolatry. Quote
Guest Rev. Karl E. Taylor Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Starkiller wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:16:20 -0700, "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" > <ktayloraz@getnet.net> wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Roy Jose Lorr wrote: >>> Raymond wrote: >>> >>>> On Jan 19, 7:26?pm, "Mr4701" <NoExi...@Earth.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> A Godless person is just as bad as an overzealous person. Atheist >>>>> Stalin had >>>>> no more of a beef killing people than Islamofascist Osama Bin Laden. >>>> >>>> And Catholic Hitler had no more of a beef killing people than Atheist >>>> Stalin or Christian Episcopalean.....George Bush >>> Hitler and stalin were and Bush is an atheist, self worshipers. How >>> people define themselves to the world is hardly ever the reality. >>> >> Hitler, Catholic. >> Stalin, Russian Orthodox. >> Bush family, US Christian. >> >> Now, you were saying? >>>> Most political and religious leaders throughout history have had no >>>> troulble killing millions of people----especially religious leaders. >>>> Religion has everything to do with terrorism Anyone who doesn't >>>> understand that has never been exposed to a decent history course or >>>> history book. >>> Anyone who takes history courses and books at face value needs a >>> tutorial in reality. >>> >>>> And we must not exclude the Jewish leaders---including the main Man >>>> himself . G-d that is. >>> Hmm... the obligatory anti God hysteria. >>> >> Hmmm, the obligatory projection, a RoyBoy special >>>> SEE Atrocities in the Bible. Shalom aleichem >>>> http://thetruth.hypermart.net/bible/atrocities.htm >>> Absolute exploitative insanity. >>> >> Projection. >>>> Also see: >>>> http://www.geocities.com/shatila1982/masspictures.html >>> Arab propaganda. >>> >> Ignornace. >>>> Catholics today all try to repudiate Adolf Hitler and deny that he was >>>> a fellow Roman Catholic. But this was definitely not the case so long >>>> as he was in power, In fact, Hitler could not have come to power >>>> without the assistance of the Vatican and the German Catholic Church> >>>> So long as Adolf Hitler was in power, his Roman Catholic Church never >>>> questioned his Catholicism - at least not in public - which is where >>>> it mattered politically.--- just as no one questions GW Bush's >>>> Christianity >>>> --- at least not in public - which is where it matters politically. >>> Hitler could not have come to power without the support of the people, >>> no matter their religious or anti religious affiliations. >>> >> Same with Bush. What's your point? >> >> Other then the fact that you like to overlook the obvious. The people >> are swayed by their CHURCH! >> >> How do you think the empty hat got to 1600 twice? >>>> A man who is convinced of the truth of his religion is indeed never >>>> tolerant. At the least, he is to feel pity for the adherent of another >>>> religion but usually it does not stop there. The faithful adherent of >>>> a religion will try first of all to convince those that believe in >>>> another religion and usually he goes on to hatred if he is not >>>> successful. However, hatred then leads to persecution when the might >>>> of the majority is behind it. In the case of a Christian clergyman, >>>> the tragic-comical is found in this: that the Christian religion >>>> demands love from the faithful, even love for the enemy. This demand, >>>> because it is indeed superhuman, he is unable to fulfill. Thus >>>> intolerance and hatred ring through the oily words of the clergyman. >>>> The love, which on the Christian side is the basis for the >>>> conciliatory attempt towards Judaism is the same as the love of a >>>> child for a cake. That means that it contains the hope that the object >>>> of the love will be eaten up... >>> You have just described the mental and physical behaviors of believers >>> in the atheist religion. >>> >> For the last time dickless. >> >> Atheists don't have a religion. An atheist is someone that is not a >> practitioner of any form of theism. Theism by and large are what twats >> call religion. > > From your response it seems that you are every bit as adamant about it > as any evangelical is regarding their religion. Argue semantics all > day if you like but your behavior is very similar when confronted by > someone that doesn't subscribe to your belief, or non belief as the > case may be. > Same reason a lot of folks refer to the "Religion of Global Warming". > Not that it is a real religion but the behavior of the "believers" > resemble that of someone devoutly religious. > One of the definitions given of religion as a noun is : a cause, > principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith - > Webster's. > It doesn't necessarily equate solely to a belief in a God or deity. > And did you ever consider for one moment that I am sick, tired, frustrated and fed up with having the mindless drivel that is religion shoved into my face damn near 20 hours a day, 7 days a week? If not, too bad. You missed out on one of the prime reasons that atheists are angry. If it ain't the Catholics its the JW's. Not the JW's, it's the Mormons. No Mormons to be had, well shit, Muslims fill the bill nicely. Can't find your local lunatic Muslim, a couple of nasty Hindu's will do nicely. And when all that fails, there are always two or three THOUSAND Protestants of differing names that will gladly annoy you for hours on end about why every one is wrong but them. TV, newspapers, radio, bus ads, tracts on park benches, bibles in hotel rooms, mindless little zombies at the capital building. Yeah, by your way of thinking, I have absolutely no right to be pissed off. Fortunately, the world does not revolve around your way of thinking. You don't like what I have to say, fine. I'm not holding a gun to your head and demanding you read it. I have every right in the world to be angry at the inbreed little morons that want to force me, by law or by force, to be just like them. When pushed, I push back. If you have no problem with these dropout's from the critical thinking class, fine. That's your problem, not mine. - -- There are none more ignorant and useless, than they that seek answers on their knees, with their eyes closed. ____________________________________________________________________ Rev. Karl E. Taylor http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ A.A #1143 http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/ Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director ____________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHk99Pf+wl0F6+jvgRAg3/AJ9vVsKHq/JqVJWIJxDvww2ko/LqiQCgl7cf DB8ad/QPytoUCJeCJEYvbx4= =JMal -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Quote
Guest Christopher A.Lee Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:55:02 -0700, "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <ktayloraz@getnet.net> wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Starkiller wrote: >> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:16:20 -0700, "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" >> <ktayloraz@getnet.net> wrote: >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Roy Jose Lorr wrote: >>>> Raymond wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Jan 19, 7:26?pm, "Mr4701" <NoExi...@Earth.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> A Godless person is just as bad as an overzealous person. Atheist >>>>>> Stalin had >>>>>> no more of a beef killing people than Islamofascist Osama Bin Laden. >>>>> >>>>> And Catholic Hitler had no more of a beef killing people than Atheist >>>>> Stalin or Christian Episcopalean.....George Bush >>>> Hitler and stalin were and Bush is an atheist, self worshipers. How >>>> people define themselves to the world is hardly ever the reality. >>>> >>> Hitler, Catholic. >>> Stalin, Russian Orthodox. >>> Bush family, US Christian. >>> >>> Now, you were saying? >>>>> Most political and religious leaders throughout history have had no >>>>> troulble killing millions of people----especially religious leaders. >>>>> Religion has everything to do with terrorism Anyone who doesn't >>>>> understand that has never been exposed to a decent history course or >>>>> history book. >>>> Anyone who takes history courses and books at face value needs a >>>> tutorial in reality. >>>> >>>>> And we must not exclude the Jewish leaders---including the main Man >>>>> himself . G-d that is. >>>> Hmm... the obligatory anti God hysteria. >>>> >>> Hmmm, the obligatory projection, a RoyBoy special >>>>> SEE Atrocities in the Bible. Shalom aleichem >>>>> http://thetruth.hypermart.net/bible/atrocities.htm >>>> Absolute exploitative insanity. >>>> >>> Projection. >>>>> Also see: >>>>> http://www.geocities.com/shatila1982/masspictures.html >>>> Arab propaganda. >>>> >>> Ignornace. >>>>> Catholics today all try to repudiate Adolf Hitler and deny that he was >>>>> a fellow Roman Catholic. But this was definitely not the case so long >>>>> as he was in power, In fact, Hitler could not have come to power >>>>> without the assistance of the Vatican and the German Catholic Church> >>>>> So long as Adolf Hitler was in power, his Roman Catholic Church never >>>>> questioned his Catholicism - at least not in public - which is where >>>>> it mattered politically.--- just as no one questions GW Bush's >>>>> Christianity >>>>> --- at least not in public - which is where it matters politically. >>>> Hitler could not have come to power without the support of the people, >>>> no matter their religious or anti religious affiliations. >>>> >>> Same with Bush. What's your point? >>> >>> Other then the fact that you like to overlook the obvious. The people >>> are swayed by their CHURCH! >>> >>> How do you think the empty hat got to 1600 twice? >>>>> A man who is convinced of the truth of his religion is indeed never >>>>> tolerant. At the least, he is to feel pity for the adherent of another >>>>> religion but usually it does not stop there. The faithful adherent of >>>>> a religion will try first of all to convince those that believe in >>>>> another religion and usually he goes on to hatred if he is not >>>>> successful. However, hatred then leads to persecution when the might >>>>> of the majority is behind it. In the case of a Christian clergyman, >>>>> the tragic-comical is found in this: that the Christian religion >>>>> demands love from the faithful, even love for the enemy. This demand, >>>>> because it is indeed superhuman, he is unable to fulfill. Thus >>>>> intolerance and hatred ring through the oily words of the clergyman. >>>>> The love, which on the Christian side is the basis for the >>>>> conciliatory attempt towards Judaism is the same as the love of a >>>>> child for a cake. That means that it contains the hope that the object >>>>> of the love will be eaten up... >>>> You have just described the mental and physical behaviors of believers >>>> in the atheist religion. >>>> >>> For the last time dickless. >>> >>> Atheists don't have a religion. An atheist is someone that is not a >>> practitioner of any form of theism. Theism by and large are what twats >>> call religion. >> >> From your response it seems that you are every bit as adamant about it >> as any evangelical is regarding their religion. Argue semantics all >> day if you like but your behavior is very similar when confronted by >> someone that doesn't subscribe to your belief, or non belief as the >> case may be. >> Same reason a lot of folks refer to the "Religion of Global Warming". >> Not that it is a real religion but the behavior of the "believers" >> resemble that of someone devoutly religious. >> One of the definitions given of religion as a noun is : a cause, >> principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith - >> Webster's. >> It doesn't necessarily equate solely to a belief in a God or deity. >> >And did you ever consider for one moment that I am sick, tired, >frustrated and fed up with having the mindless drivel that is religion >shoved into my face damn near 20 hours a day, 7 days a week? On his planet that makes this reaction a religion. But then he is a dishonest theist who redefined words so broadly they become meaningless. Making it impossible to hold the discussion they start. It's like using the Monty Python English/Hungarian phrase book. Their insistence on using their jargon meanings of every day words means we're both talking past each other. And they blame us for not using their inside-the-religion redefinitions in the real world. >If not, too bad. You missed out on one of the prime reasons that >atheists are angry. If it ain't the Catholics its the JW's. Not the >JW's, it's the Mormons. No Mormons to be had, well shit, Muslims fill >the bill nicely. Can't find your local lunatic Muslim, a couple of >nasty Hindu's will do nicely. And when all that fails, there are always >two or three THOUSAND Protestants of differing names that will gladly >annoy you for hours on end about why every one is wrong but them. They're in denial about it. >TV, newspapers, radio, bus ads, tracts on park benches, bibles in hotel >rooms, mindless little zombies at the capital building. > >Yeah, by your way of thinking, I have absolutely no right to be pissed off. In their minds we haven't. But they haven't the common sense or courtesy to understand that everybody else has just as much freedom of speech and of religious conscience as they do. Which includes our telling them where to shove it when they wipe it in our faces, to call them liars when they lie about us, and to treat them like idiots when they are. >Fortunately, the world does not revolve around your way of thinking. >You don't like what I have to say, fine. I'm not holding a gun to your >head and demanding you read it. In their minds it does. They stupidly imagine their god is real for everybody outside their religion, and rationalise positions we don't have as though it were. And nastily insist that these are accurate when we correct them. >I have every right in the world to be angry at the inbreed little morons >that want to force me, by law or by force, to be just like them. When >pushed, I push back. For some reason they ignore their own actions and pretend that the reaction is unprovoked. >If you have no problem with these dropout's from the critical thinking >class, fine. That's your problem, not mine. Quote
Guest Virgil Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 In article <vfedna-9NuxgTg7anZ2dnUVZ_s6mnZ2d@comcast.com>, Roy Jose Lorr <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote: > Karl Johanson wrote: > > > "Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote > > > > > >>Show us where anything that Hitler did was referenced in the Bible as > >>a teaching of Christ? > > > > > > The Bible says that every leader of every nation is there, because of > > god's will. It further says that people should follow them. If you > > believe the Christian Bible, you believe Hitler executed god's will. If > > you believe the Christian Bible, you believe that the Germans were under > > god's orders to do what their leader told them to do, as it was god's > > will. > > Free will for humans, not determinism, is God's will. > > > > > Fortunately, god is fictitious. I wish Hitler and most of his followers > > had known that. > > They believed precisely that. Did Lorr's god read Hitler's mind and then pass the word on to Lorr? Somehow, I doubt it. Quote
Guest Karl Johanson Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 "Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote > Liz wrote: > >> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:32:30 -0600, Starkiller >> <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> [---] >> >>>Read the new freaking testament for crying out loud if you want to >>>know. Just a few aspects are that you don't go around trying to >>>dominate and force anyone into your faith for starters. You don;t >>>commit genocide. >> >> >> >> Could you give me a reference for the "don't commit genocide" >> verse(s)? Many people reference the genocide committed by God and >> the >> Hebrews in the OT, and it would be nice it see that such action was >> countermanded in the NT. > > Show where "genocide" is ordered in the Five Books of Moses (Genesis - > Deuteronom). I suggest you learn the meaning of the term "genocide". -Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: -Deuteronomy 20: 17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee: -Deuteronomy 12:2 Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: 3 And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. -Deuteronomy 13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. http://www.yourdictionary.com/genocide geno Quote
Guest Karl Johanson Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 "Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote > God needs no proof but since you insist: your existence is proof > enough. Batman needs no proof but since you insist: your existence is proof enough. Karl Johanson Quote
Guest Kenneth Doyle Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Virgil <Virgil@com.com> wrote in news:Virgil-8B9A58.17262320012008@comcast.dca.giganews.com: > In article <vfedna-9NuxgTg7anZ2dnUVZ_s6mnZ2d@comcast.com>, > Roy Jose Lorr <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote: > >> Karl Johanson wrote: >> >> > "Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote >> > >> > >> >>Show us where anything that Hitler did was referenced in the Bible >> >>as a teaching of Christ? >> > >> > >> > The Bible says that every leader of every nation is there, because >> > of god's will. It further says that people should follow them. If >> > you believe the Christian Bible, you believe Hitler executed god's >> > will. If you believe the Christian Bible, you believe that the >> > Germans were under god's orders to do what their leader told them >> > to do, as it was god's will. >> >> Free will for humans, not determinism, is God's will. >> >> > >> > Fortunately, god is fictitious. I wish Hitler and most of his >> > followers had known that. >> >> They believed precisely that. > > Did Lorr's god read Hitler's mind and then pass the word on to Lorr? > > Somehow, I doubt it. > Nah, Lorr read Hitler's mind from beyond the grave. Quote
Guest Christopher A.Lee Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:36:53 -0800, Roy Jose Lorr <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote: >God needs no proof but since you insist: your existence is proof enough. What a fucking moron. Quote
Guest Roy Jose Lorr Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Karl Johanson wrote: > "Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote > >>Karl Johanson wrote: >> >> >>>"Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote >>> >>> >>> >>>>Show us where anything that Hitler did was referenced in the Bible as >>>>a teaching of Christ? >>> >>> >>>The Bible says that every leader of every nation is there, because of >>>god's will. It further says that people should follow them. If you >>>believe the Christian Bible, you believe Hitler executed god's will. >>>If you believe the Christian Bible, you believe that the Germans were >>>under god's orders to do what their leader told them to do, as it was >>>god's will. >> >>Free will for humans, not determinism, is God's will. > > > I didn't say it was determinism. I said the Bible orders Christians to > follow every national leader. Lots of Christians did that, when Hitler > was in power. I'm not xian. Quote
Guest Roy Jose Lorr Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Karl Johanson wrote: > > http://www.yourdictionary.com/genocide > geno Quote
Guest Roy Jose Lorr Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Karl Johanson wrote: > "Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote > > >>God needs no proof but since you insist: your existence is proof >>enough. > > > Batman needs no proof but since you insist: your existence is proof > enough. Perhaps you'll explain how my existence proves the existence of batman. Quote
Guest Starkiller Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:49:11 -0800, Roy Jose Lorr <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote: >Karl Johanson wrote: > >> "Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote >> >> >>>God needs no proof but since you insist: your existence is proof >>>enough. >> >> >> Batman needs no proof but since you insist: your existence is proof >> enough. > >Perhaps you'll explain how my existence proves the existence of batman. I believe they think that you were created by Batman. Y'know Robin did go around saying "holy" a lot. I dunno, I'm just sayin'.... ROFL Quote
Guest Karl Johanson Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 "Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote > Karl Johanson wrote: > >> "Roy Jose Lorr" <Kenthz@comcast.net> wrote >> >>>Karl Johanson wrote: >>> >>> >>>>"Starkiller" <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Show us where anything that Hitler did was referenced in the Bible >>>>>as >>>>>a teaching of Christ? >>>> >>>> >>>>The Bible says that every leader of every nation is there, because >>>>of god's will. It further says that people should follow them. If >>>>you believe the Christian Bible, you believe Hitler executed god's >>>>will. If you believe the Christian Bible, you believe that the >>>>Germans were under god's orders to do what their leader told them to >>>>do, as it was god's will. >>> >>>Free will for humans, not determinism, is God's will. >> >> >> I didn't say it was determinism. I said the Bible orders Christians >> to follow every national leader. Lots of Christians did that, when >> Hitler was in power. > > I'm not xian. I didn't say you were Christian. Karl Johanson Quote
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