Guest Semper Lib Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 "Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:a8vhq3tih0homfi74ahjhvp6rn59rr53ob@4ax.com... > On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:07:00 GMT, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Semper Lib Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 "Midwinter" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message news:pcqdnYFA8-8PnzTanZ2dnUVZ8tbinZ2d@bt.com... > "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Semper Lib Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 "John Smith" <bobsyoungbro@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:_H9qj.96321$U12.20284@trnddc06... > > "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Ron Baker, Pluralitas! Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 "Midwinter" <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message news:Ab-dncUsd5XN_DXanZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com... > "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <this@aint.me> said : > >>> In fact, you cannot even produce objective, verifiable evidence that >>> G. Bush is the President of the United States. Oh, you can produce >>> newspaper reports, you might even produce the man himself should it >>> happen that he is at your beck and call. But how will I know this >>> man is indeed the president? I cannot. >> >> Are you a solipsist? > > Pardon me butting in - but solipsism is an interesting question, > especially asked in one of Bill's threads. Solipsism is a dead end. > > Given that my consciousness is the only one I can know for certain > actually exists, solipsism would seem to be a reasonable conclusion. Then who are you talking to? > According to the standards demanded by Bill et al, I should accept the > possibility that others have similar consciousness only if there is > verifiable, objective evidence to that effect. But of course, there > isn't. Everything I perceive - including whatever evidence you might > show me - is dependent on my perceptions. And if for whatever reason my > perceptions don't show me what really exists, then what evidence could > you ever provide? Well, if you don't have a grip on reality then, yes, there is no evidence that works for you. > > Fortunately, I don't adhere to the strict standards demanded by some > here, and so, without any 'verifiable, objective evidence', and based > solely on my gut feeling, I accept that others experience consciousness > in their own way, just as I do in mine. Gut feeling? You mean it is not repeated consistent observations? What is your gut feeling about fire? Is it hot? > > This is one of the big problems that faces those who live their lives > crowing about 'verifiable, objective evidence'. They don't grasp that > even supposedly objective evidence can only serve as such within a > certain frame of reference. How would you know? You don't know what reality is. You only have your unreliable perceptions. > If the question being considered is the very > nature of reality (into which category the matter of gods must surely > fall), then we cannot find answers. There are no instruments we can use, > no tests we can run, no observations we can make, that will serve as > 'objective' evidence to answer this question. All our methods of > observing the reality around us (or what we suppose to be the reality > around us) are contained within that reality, and are therefore > subjective in nature. If my perceptions are flawed - and that's required > for the solipsist view to apply - then everything that comes in via those > perceptions is also flawed. Thus, no evidence from outside my > consciousness can be trusted or considered 'objective' (and obviously, > nothing originating inside can be objective either). I hope you don't have a driver's license. I'd hate to think what would happen when you don't trust your perception of a red light. <snip> > the fundamental questions of reality - like solipsism - cannot be > supported or denied through science. What is real that can't be supported by science? Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 rjbjr wrote: > "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > news:tKNpj.66207$Mu4.41907@bignews7.bellsouth.net... > > God fanatics constantly make the claim the wonders and complexity of the > > world is proof of God. > > > > > > > > > > There are thousands of different religious and god beliefs but NO OJECTIVE > > VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE for the actual existence of ANY of these gods. ALL > > god beliefs are based on the unsubstantiated 'opinions and claims of > > errant men. > > > > > > I challenge god believers to supply ANY objective verifiable evidence that > > their god actually exists except in their over active imaginations. > > Who will accept the challenge??? > > > Mr Bill, > I have offered you objective, verifiable evidence in previous posts to your > question. > I posed an experiment YOU could perform for yourself to see for yourself > that the Bible contains instructions on how to improve your mental capacity. > YOU REFUSED TO ACCEPT MY PROOF. that is not proof of a god, idiot > > > You aren't really interested in a proof are you. Oooooh YES WE ARE. We are very interested in having proof of gods because if they can be revealed to all and sundry that they are simply a fabrication perhaps the next nuclear world conflagration can be avoided, a war between Islam and Christianity, a kind of 'extension of the Crusades'. This time every woman and child will be on the battle front and perhaps half of humanity will perish...... all in the name of imaginary gods. Yes. my friend we are VERY interested > > > But, I'll keep trying from time to time. > But, please help me. I need to know what kind of proof you will accept. As > you know, there are many definitions of a "proof". What crass nonsense. Ask a lawyer will ya ? > > > Please provide us with a couple of examples of what standard of proof you > want. Anything to prove your god appears now like it was claimed 'He' appeared to Moses and had a one on one chat together. That kind of proof will do. > > Perhaps you would consider providing "proof" for a Big Bang that created our > universe from nothing, from purely "natural", "physical" univerals laws > requiring no God being involved. > > Or, perhaps you can provide an example of the kind of "proof" that the first > life just spontaneously started from elements to produce a DNA molecule. > > That would be very helpful to me. Well you do seem to need some help, rather like him below....... Bob "The doctrine that the earth is neither the center of the universe nor immovable, but moves even with a daily rotation, is absurd, and both philosophically and theologically false, and at the least an error of faith." [Catholic Church's decision against Galileo Galilei] > > > Thanks, > RJBJR Quote
Guest bob young Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Robibnikoff wrote: > "rjbjr" <rjburnsjr@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:I_Gdnb9cnL8Q_zXanZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com... > > "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message > > news:tKNpj.66207$Mu4.41907@bignews7.bellsouth.net... > >> God fanatics constantly make the claim the wonders and complexity of the > >> world is proof of God. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> There are thousands of different religious and god beliefs but NO > >> OJECTIVE VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE for the actual existence of ANY of these > >> gods. ALL god beliefs are based on the unsubstantiated 'opinions and > >> claims of errant men. > >> > >> > >> I challenge god believers to supply ANY objective verifiable evidence > >> that their god actually exists except in their over active imaginations. > >> Who will accept the challenge??? > >> > > Mr Bill, > > I have offered you objective, verifiable evidence in previous posts to > > your question. > > Show it now so we can all check it out. .......not a chance, this stock reply is used over and over again, they never show anything bob > > -- > Robyn > Resident Witchypoo > BAAWA Knight! > #1557 Quote
Guest Semper Lib Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 "Richo" <m.richardson61@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e8279bca-6c6c-4533-9f1c-a1bea4e09e63@m62g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... On Feb 5, 3:20 pm, Michael <newsus...@orneveien.org> wrote: > On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:25:26 -0500, Bill M wrote: > > > I challenge god believers to supply ANY objective verifiable evidence that > > their god actually exists except in their over active imaginations. > > > Who will accept the challenge??? > > I challenge you to give me a pure gold coin made of silver. I know that > you cannot do it, because the definition of pure gold coin excludes making > it from silver. > > Likewise, the definition of God, or any that I have encountered, preclude > "objective, verifiable evidence". > > In fact, you cannot even produce objective, verifiable evidence that G. > Bush is the President of the United States. Oh, you can produce newspaper > reports, you might even produce the man himself should it happen that he > is at your beck and call. But how will I know this man is indeed the > president? I cannot. A two million man army at his command is > persuasive, but of course, he would have to present all two million of > them to me to REALLY convince me. > >You are conflating "evidence" with "absolute proof". >Evidence of the existence of George Bush is plentiful - absolute proof >of anything doesnt exist. There are lots of examples of absolute proof of something... Falling apples are absolute proof of gravity... Heat is absolute proof of energy... Babies are absolute proof of human life... computers are absolute proof of computer engineers... etc... Quote
Guest Semper Lib Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 "Richo" <m.richardson61@gmail.com> wrote in message news:80f153b8-7699-4c49-9195-22f7cab42ca2@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... On Feb 6, 3:03 pm, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Semper Lib Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 "Richo" <m.richardson61@gmail.com> wrote in message news:34d24c3a-621e-4381-b121-aa0ed55ede6e@m62g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... On Feb 6, 10:07 am, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Semper Liber Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 "bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message news:47A9DABA.71A1C075@netvigator.com... > > > "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Christopher A. Lee Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 04:03:11 GMT, "Semper Lib Quote
Guest Richard Anacker Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Pastor Frank , 02.05.2008: > Atheist fundamentalist fanatics always claim, that complex designs like > living cells need no designer, but just happen to appear out of nothing, and > from nothing like a miracle. Xian morons show again and again that they are too clueless to understand that a living cell does not appear out of nothing and from nothing like a miracle. Is this mimicry or are you so stupid? greets richie X'Posted to: alt.atheism,alt.christnet.evangelical,alt.christnet.theology,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian -- Love is the answer, but while you wait for the answer, sex raises some pretty good questions.. -Woody Allen Quote
Guest Richard Anacker Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Christopher A. Lee , 02.06.2008: > Are there any honest creationists out there? LOL. Is the pope a jew? greets richie X'Posted to: alt.atheism,alt.christian.religion,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.gods -- Lieblingsvideos auf youtube: BOB DYLAN - A HARD RAIN Quote
Guest Richard Anacker Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Ron Baker, Pluralitas! , 02.06.2008: >> That is overwhelming evidence of an intelligent creator. > > And the complex and purposeful intelligent creator is overwhelming > evidence of the intelligent creator creator. You shouldn't forget that the complex and purposeful intelligent creator creator is overwhelming evidence of the intelligent creator creator creator. greets richie X'Posted to: alt.atheism,alt.christian.religion,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.gods -- Lieblingsvideos auf youtube: Donovan - Universal Soldier http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohXsdbF-7jc Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 On 5 Feb., 05:20, Michael <newsus...@orneveien.org> wrote: > On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:25:26 -0500, Bill M wrote: > > > I challenge god believers to supply ANY objective verifiable evidence that > > their god actually exists except in their over active imaginations. > > > Who will accept the challenge??? > > I challenge you to give me a pure gold coin made of silver. Quote
Guest gudloos@yahoo.com Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 On 5 Feb., 14:14, Midwinter <midwinte...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > "Ron Baker, Quote
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