Tired Ranting about Mental Dicipline

[eisanbt]

I was called crazy recently, and that can be a fun title to throw around. Its a neat defining characteristic to be the "Crazy one" among friends, or so it was to me and is to other friends who think themselves crazy. Why I got this title has to do with how I became who I am, just as anyone else it is though my experiences. I guess mine were a tad off the regular path.

 

I grew up a country boy, ergo we never paid much mind to hospitals or psychologists as these options weren’t accessible. My crazy friends have joked to each other about being on the same meds as one another and well, this erks me. Am I crazy? Hells no. Are they; I certainly think not. The odd pride that some people carry about them because of their “Handicaps” just...bah.

 

There are those out there who more adequate fill this title, who’s minds are unable to function in the same reality as most. Am I a tad odd?; I guess. Are these friends of mine odd, yes. But being on a drug is not a valid excuse to call yourself crazy, really I just think its people being weak. I share the same (Well similar) bullshit as these crazy folk, but I was never medicated. I fought through trauma and neuroticism with thought alone, being isolated in the country even meant a lack of peer support. But it just goes to show that its possible and I'd say preferable. Or perhaps I'm just being a self-absorbed shit-hat.

 

Your mind is who you are. Those who know you are concerned with what’s behind your eyes. When I see a friend or even an acquaintance go on a drug, legal or otherwise, to help them function... I'm bothered. When this shit enters your mind it becomes part of its function just as anything else which in the past that moulded your personality is part of who you are. When you're the one who plays harmonica or who survived that car accident than that is the genuine effector of your personality, that is you. When you add a drug in the mix, when you add that bullshit escape from self-responsibility, that is what you become.

 

I hate the idea of becoming Prozac or Fucking Dope or booze or anything else. My mind is up to me to handle and heal, to-hell with cop-outs.

[hugo]

I don't know...ain't nothing better than a couple cold brews after a hard day.

[Lethalfind]

I hate the idea of becoming Prozac or Fucking Dope or booze or anything else. My mind is up to me to handle and heal, to-hell with cop-outs.

 

Those are the exact words of many a psych patient who through away their medication with grandiose plans to make themselves better throw sheer will, it normally takes a few days before they are picked up again and brought in, in a straight jacket...

 

Good Luck with that.

[eisanbt]

Such are the people who, as I mentionned, better fit the title of "Crazy". My reference is to the thousands of people who live nomally as most; work, family, a car etc.. But they've given up on getting over their troubles, as thearpy would, and instead they just take pills or toke to stop the bleeding rather than accual mental healing. This happens to people who from many, from those with harsh lives to reflect on to simply the worried-well.

[snafu]

I have to agree with eisanbt to an extent. We are all crazy in someone’s eyes. Doctors hand out meds way to fast. My daughter went to a doctor when she was eighteen and only after the second visit he proclaimed her depressed and prescribes Prozac. Every teen that age is depressed at one point or another. She only took a couple of them before I flushed them.

To have a tok or two and a beer isn’t’ the same. Everybody has to stop the bleeding sometime.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Nurse Ratchet...

 

I said... "I don't want to take anymore pills!!!!!" "Leave me alone" "Where are my cigarettes?" "I want my cigarettes!!!!!"

[TommyGun1928]

eisanbt, I have to disagree with you. Medications, especially those prescribed in what may seem to you as relative haste, do not change who you are at all. An antidepressant increases the seritonin in your brain, simply taking the edge off negative thinking. This is sometimes a necessary step, since with clinical depression, one's thoughts about harming themselves and others, as well as ending their lives actually become a significant danger.

 

You seem to have a phobia related to taking medications. But look around you... almost -- if not all -- people you know are taking some sort of medication. This is simply because they can. In Western society, if you can do something to take the edge off of the pain, you'd have to be some sort of masochist not too, unless you can't afford it -- or you have some sort of addiction.

 

And you're completely wrong about medications stopping/slowing down the healing process. They don't, and if anything, actually accelerate it. Otherwise, you'd have to be on pills for your entire life, a fate which is extremely rare for people with psychological disorders

[snafu]

eisanbt, I have to disagree with you. Medications, especially those prescribed in what may seem to you as relative haste, do not change who you are at all. An antidepressant increases the seritonin in your brain, simply taking the edge off negative thinking. This is sometimes a necessary step, since with clinical depression, one's thoughts about harming themselves and others, as well as ending their lives actually become a significant danger.

 

You seem to have a phobia related to taking medications. But look around you... almost -- if not all -- people you know are taking some sort of medication. This is simply because they can. In Western society, if you can do something to take the edge off of the pain, you'd have to be some sort of masochist not too, unless you can't afford it -- or you have some sort of addiction.

 

And you're completely wrong about medications stopping/slowing down the healing process. They don't, and if anything, actually accelerate it. Otherwise, you'd have to be on pills for your entire life, a fate which is extremely rare for people with psychological disorders

 

 

Well yes and no. Medications are a great tool especially for pain and life threatening ailments as you pointed out. On the other hand Doctors in general diagnose and prescribe way to much depressant drugs. Also I believe you have the majority of patients have to take drugs for ADH, an element I don't' even think exists. I was told by a mother with a child diagnosed with this that they even lose their right to own a gun for the rest of their lives.

[atlantic]

Well yes and no. Medications are a great tool especially for pain and life threatening ailments as you pointed out. On the other hand Doctors in general diagnose and prescribe way to much depressant drugs. Also I believe you have the majority of patients have to take drugs for ADH, an element I don't' even think exists. I was told by a mother with a child diagnosed with this that they even lose their right to own a gun for the rest of their lives.

I can see why, I sometimes watch a neighbors son who has ADHD; He once fell down playing football and brought a bat outside and started swinging at the other kids (I wasn't there for that episode - different neighbor). I have never had a problem with him, he's always polite and acts fine with me. I notice that his mother fuels his aggresive behavior, she lets him run around all the time by himself, threatens other kids if he has an issue with them. She has never once played outside with him, and his meals seem to be doritos. I think he just needs an outlet and some attention, real food, and a mother who gives a shit, not meds. jmo

[TommyGun1928]

I can see why, I sometimes watch a neighbors son who has ADHD; He once fell down playing football and brought a bat outside and started swinging at the other kids (I wasn't there for that episode - different neighbor). I have never had a problem with him, he's always polite and acts fine with me. I notice that his mother fuels his aggresive behavior, she lets him run around all the time by himself, threatens other kids if he has an issue with them. She has never once played outside with him, and his meals seem to be doritos. I think he just needs an outlet and some attention, real food, and a mother who gives a shit, not meds. jmo

 

The only reason he's pleasant to you is that kids on ADHD alternate between stable and unstable conditions, rather than being constantly unstable. This, sadly, is the best we can do so far with medication. Even so, his mother's behaviour could be the catalyst for his mental instability. Obviously, it doesn't help.

[snafu]

The only reason he's pleasant to you is that kids on ADHD alternate between stable and unstable conditions, rather than being constantly unstable. This, sadly, is the best we can do so far with medication. Even so, his mother's behaviour could be the catalyst for his mental instability. Obviously, it doesn't help.

 

I

[TommyGun1928]

I

[jokersarewild]

A lot of people from your generation having never really known about these psychological conditions will obviously begin to doubt whether or not they exist. Don't forget, though, that a lot of things have changed since then... this would mean that there's a possiblity that these new conditions came to be relatively recently.

 

Snafu isn't that old...he's like, what, 80, maybe 90?

[TommyGun1928]

Snafu isn't that old...he's like, what, 80, maybe 90?

 

He doesn't have to be a human raisin to be from a previous generation!

[skategreen]

Well yes and no. Medications are a great tool especially for pain and life threatening ailments as you pointed out. On the other hand Doctors in general diagnose and prescribe way to much depressant drugs. Also I believe you have the majority of patients have to take drugs for ADH, an element I don't' even think exists. I was told by a mother with a child diagnosed with this that they even lose their right to own a gun for the rest of their lives.

 

Snafu, I'm with you on your non-belief. While teaching I found that there was no such thing. Just a prior lousy teaching job and poor parenting.

 

What I find incredible is that anyone would even swallow the concept. We've all read the symptoms, right? Jesus H. Christ. What a load of horseshit. By the criteria, ANY child (and many adults) (most adults?) could be diagnosed with this pharmaceutical money generating "diagnosis".

 

Who gets rich? That's where to look .. who's to benefit from all these new "illnesses". The drug companies.

 

To Wit:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/symptom.htm

 

Symptoms of ADHD

 

I. Either A or B:

 

Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention have been present for at least 6 months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

 

Inattention

 

Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.

 

Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.

 

Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.

 

Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).

 

Often has trouble organizing activities.

 

Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).

 

Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).

 

Is often easily distracted.

 

Is often forgetful in daily activities.

 

Six or more of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have been present for at least 6 months to an extent that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

 

Hyperactivity

 

Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.

 

Often gets up from seat when remaining in seat is expected.

 

Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate (adolescents or adults may feel very restless).

 

Often has trouble playing or enjoying leisure activities quietly.

 

Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".

 

Often talks excessively.

 

Impulsivity

 

Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished.

 

Often has trouble waiting one's turn.

 

Often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games).

 

Some symptoms that cause impairment were present before age 7 years.

 

Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g. at school/work and at home).

 

There must be clear evidence of significant impairment in social, school, or work functioning.

 

The symptoms do not happen only during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder. The symptoms are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g. Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder).

 

Based on these criteria, three types of ADHD are identified:

 

ADHD, Combined Type: if both criteria 1A and 1B are met for the past 6 months

 

ADHD, Predominantly Inattentive Type: if criterion 1A is met but criterion 1B is not met for the past six months

 

ADHD, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type: if Criterion 1B is met but Criterion 1A is not met for the past six months.

 

American Psychiatric Association: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Association, 2000.

[skategreen]

A lot of people from your generation having never really known about these psychological conditions will obviously begin to doubt whether or not they exist. Don't forget, though, that a lot of things have changed since then... this would mean that there's a possiblity that these new conditions came to be relatively recently.

 

 

and would you care to explain a few things?

 

When was the first "case" diagnosed with this "psychological" condition? What changed to bring it about?

 

Just what has changed since say... 1978, that directly has caused this new "disease"? Did we not have kids who had trouble sitting still, not interested in what the oh so stellar teachers were saying, who didn't feel like doing the work? Who maybe felt they had something they'd RATHER to do? ... Did we have anyone .... ooohhh dropping out of school?

 

Back up your statements.

[TommyGun1928]

and would you care to explain a few things?

 

When was the first "case" diagnosed with this "psychological" condition? What changed to bring it about?

 

Just what has changed since say... 1978, that directly has caused this new "disease"? Did we not have kids who had trouble sitting still, not interested in what the oh so stellar teachers were saying, who didn't feel like doing the work? Who maybe felt they had something they'd RATHER to do? ... Did we have anyone .... ooohhh dropping out of school?

 

Back up your statements.

 

I would gladly back up my statements if A) this were a serious debate thread B) it wasn't just theoretical babbling. So no, I won't back up my statements. I will, however, gladly back up my car. Onto your head.

[skategreen]

AND ANOTHER THING!

 

A couple weeks ago I went to the Natural History museum in NYC. I was appalled when a group of school kids came in, and immediately fanned out at a full tilt, running, screaming, and carrying on all throughout the exhibit. It was simply mayhem. The teachers did nothing what-so-ever about it. The kids kept it up without relenting, and I got fed up and left that section.

 

I took groups of children, ages 4, 5, 6, ages 7, 8, 9, ages 10, 11, 12, on field trips countless times. We went to libraries, the symphony, musuems, parks, -- you name it, we went there. At no time EVER did my kids behave in such a manner. They were fully aware of appropriate behavior prior to the trip, Hell, we'd DRILL proper behavior with the younger ones.. We had wonderful times, with the kids fully enjoying themselves and a good time had by all - without any insane nonsense.

 

If you treat children with dignity, listen to them well, set a good example, and EXPECT the same in return, you get it.

Period.

 

I did it for eleven years. I know what can be done. I know what poor parenting and teaching skills brings about.

 

Our current society.

[TommyGun1928]

AND ANOTHER THING!

 

A couple weeks ago I went to the Natural History museum in NYC. I was appalled when a group of school kids came in, and immediately fanned out at a full tilt, running, screaming, and carrying on all throughout the exhibit. It was simply mayhem. The teachers did nothing what-so-ever about it. The kids kept it up without relenting, and I got fed up and left that section.

 

I took groups of children, ages 4, 5, 6, ages 7, 8, 9, ages 10, 11, 12, on field trips countless times. We went to libraries, the symphony, musuems, parks, -- you name it, we went there. At no time EVER did my kids behave in such a manner. They were fully aware of appropriate behavior prior to the trip, Hell, we'd DRILL proper behavior with the younger ones.. We had wonderful times, with the kids fully enjoying themselves and a good time had by all - without any insane nonsense.

 

If you treat children with dignity, listen to them well, set a good example, and EXPECT the same in return, you get it.

Period.

 

I did it for eleven years. I know what can be done. I know what poor parenting and teaching skills brings about.

 

Our current society.

 

Seems like a terrible Knn Dishin... Knn Knn Knn Dishin'! Knn Knn Knn Knn Knn Knn Dishin'! Knn Knn Doctor! Doc doc Knn Dishin'. Doc doc doc doctor! doc doc Knn Dishin! Doc doc doc doctor! Doc doc Knn Dishin'. Doc doc doc doctor doc doc Knn Dishin'! Vew vew vew vew IRRIVERSIBLE vew vew vew vew vew vew vew vew IRRIVERSIBLE doc doc Dishin' Knn Knn Knn Dishin'...

 

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/carmacscondition

[skategreen]

I would gladly back up my statements if A) this were a serious debate thread B) it wasn't just theoretical babbling. So no, I won't back up my statements. I will, however, gladly back up my car. Onto your head.

 

If C) I had any fucking idea of what I was talking about.

D) If I had a fucking clue as to HOW

E) If I could ever get my head out of my fucking ASS.

 

I guess the key word here would be Babba-fucking-ling.

 

We've enough idiots around here without you. Make yourself useful. Grab a broom.

[manicmonday]

Snafu, I'm with you on your non-belief. While teaching I found that there was no such thing. Just a prior lousy teaching job and poor parenting.

 

What I find incredible is that anyone would even swallow the concept. We've all read the symptoms, right? Jesus H. Christ. What a load of horseshit. By the criteria, ANY child (and many adults) (most adults?) could be diagnosed with this pharmaceutical money generating "diagnosis".

 

 

I wouldn't take the word of someone who believes in the religion of Ron Hubbard. Calling Tom Cruise, skategreen is calling your number. I too believe many things are overdiagnosed and treated. I also know that some things are medically related. It's not about bad parenting.

 

We didn't know about Irritable Bowl Sydndrom in the 70's, but many people are living better lives with medication to control the symtoms.

 

But I supposed you believe Vitamins will cure those people also?

 

I'll take the knowledge of a doctor who has gone to school over 12 years then a follower of a religion that doesn't acknowledge we might not know everything about the mind.

[snafu]

I wouldn't take the word of someone who believes in the religion of Ron Hubbard. Calling Tom Cruise, skategreen is calling your number. I too believe many things are overdiagnosed and treated. I also know that some things are medically related. It's not about bad parenting.

 

We didn't know about Irritable Bowl Sydndrom in the 70's, but many people are living better lives with medication to control the symtoms.

 

But I supposed you believe Vitamins will cure those people also?

 

I'll take the knowledge of a doctor who has gone to school over 12 years then a follower of a religion that doesn't acknowledge we might not know everything about the mind.

 

I know kids running a muck can be a pain in the ass. And I know we

[manicmonday]

I know kids running a muck can be a pain in the ass. And I know we

[snafu]

Seems like a terrible Knn Dishin... Knn Knn Knn Dishin'! Knn Knn Knn Knn Knn Knn Dishin'! Knn Knn Doctor! Doc doc Knn Dishin'. Doc doc doc doctor! doc doc Knn Dishin! Doc doc doc doctor! Doc doc Knn Dishin'. Doc doc doc doctor doc doc Knn Dishin'! Vew vew vew vew IRRIVERSIBLE vew vew vew vew vew vew vew vew IRRIVERSIBLE doc doc Dishin' Knn Knn Knn Dishin'...

 

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/carmacscondition

 

Tommy Tommy Tommy. Just when I started to have faith in you as a good debater. Oh that's right your a master-bater. Two times a day. This must not be that time of day for you. Put down the glue and come down to earth would you?

[snafu]

I don't believe in over medicating, believe me. But I'm also tired of people grumbling about medication for mental problems that they really have no idea about. None, zilch, nada. Just like you don't tell a heart patient not take medicine to control it. It's the same thing. But because people have the "snap out of it" attitude, many people don't get the help they need.

 

I agree that children are a bad rat to test on. I agree that there are too many over medicated. I do not agree that help isn't always needed.

 

True there are mental illnesses that do need medication. I'm not tring to refute that. I just don't believe in ADHD. And I have seen what over medication can do to someone diagnossed with a mental problem. A friend of mine was sent into a mental hospital in our younger days and they doped the shit out of him. He wasn't crazy, he just wouldn't sleep. He fought it and it only made it worse. The way they cured him is that we all told him to play the game and they'll let you out.