Tired Ranting about Mental Dicipline

[manicmonday]

It's a bitch to get a court order for electric shock treatments. And it has to be renewed ever 60 days or so (or at least here in CT). But from what I've heard, it does wonders for the patients who really need it.

 

 

Kansas is the WORST place ever to obtain psychiatric care. And it's not hard to get anyone court ordered here. Like 2 people testify, and boom, you are in the hospital. I've learned I have to be my own advocate on many topics because there are two camps of thinking here. One is the "snap out of attitude" that makes me want to puke and the other is to deny the condition exsists. Both are equally dangerous. And then there's the fucked up courts who like to put everyone in a mental hospital and tuck them away so society doesn't have to see. Stupid fuckers, all of them.

[eisanbt]

Crutch? You are so obviously not well studied on this, otherwise that wouldn't have been your first word choice.

 

 

So well studied that I'd been diagnoised as bipolar, PTSD, mild detached personality and have been reading psych since I was in grade 10...yadda yadda yadda, who gives a shit it proves nothing etc... I now have a reletivly clean slate with nothing to do with drugging myself. I've twice said that I don't believe that meds shouldn't be abolished, just that the minds of many people who suffer from this particular sort of BS are capable of self healing. This will usually involve the body as well. Healthy body, healthy mind and vica-versa.

 

As was already said, we're just getting rolling in the world of psychology and are far from knowing all. It is my belief from experience, study and social interaction that our mind can be as plastic as we choose it to be.

[manicmonday]

Well Eyesinbutt, I would like to believe you, but this is from your own post that started the thread.

 

 

 

There are those out there who more adequate fill this title, who

[TommyGun1928]

Well Eyesinbutt, I would like to believe you, but this is from your own post that started the thread.

 

 

 

 

 

So you are backtracking. You said yourself you hate Prozac. Then you try to say "well some people might need it. Bullshit. Stand by your first statement at least. You said it is used as a bullshit escape from self-responsiblity. I say your talking out your ass. If you feel like you can "heal your mind without a cop-out" fine. But when you make a blanket statment that says everyone else should do the same? You are wrong. You are talking out your ass. Not only did I go to school for this, I live it everyday and I can assure you, I'm not using it as a cop out. I use it to function. I take care of my child by myself every day, run a freelance writing gig, have several organizations I volunteer my time with and have a social life to boot. I'm not having a "crutch", I'm having a substance in my body that allows me to function in a way that is normal.

 

Take a few classes in physiology, psychology, psychiatray and socialogy. Your very first post that started this bullshit tirade said people can self heal. You are wrong. What people CAN do is take participation in their own care and get well. I am a full participant in my healthcare team, but to say I should self heal, "snap out of it", that I'm using a crutch to self medicate, or my favorite, to avoid self responsiblity? Shows me you are not as educated on this topic as you think you are. You have made a blanket statment and think every one should fall under the unbrella you have created. Sorry dude, your unbrella isn't functionable to me. What are you doing that is so great while you are self healing your mind? Sitting in an apartment with roommates discussing your craziness? That sounds productive.

 

I agree with you entirely.

 

CES said earlier that the mind is fragile and that it is hence shaped easily. I believe that "Eyesinbutt" believes the same thing, but the concept that this shaping can somehow lead to self-healing is contrary to logic. The mind is unlike any other organ. Most parts of the body, when damaged, heal (and some even become stronger, like callouses on skin) through the process of cellular mitosis. When it comes to the brain, that healing power is lost. If you lose part of your brain, it's gone forever. Your body has to bypass certain areas and, if you're lucky, parts of it may be remade by the transformation of stem cells.

 

But that's only if you lose part of your brain. What you're saying is that people can have serious psychological disorders, like you state that you had, and deal with it, somehow healing themselves automatically. That is a very difficult thing to believe-- the entire process has much too much left to chanec.

 

And, yes, it is extremely narrow-minded to believe that your case is comparable to all other cases. This means that because you could deal with it until you somehow got over it (a process which you still haven't proven was automatic/an ability the brain posesses) does not mean in the slightest that everyone can do the same thing. People have varrying degrees of disorder, and that means that some are so completely fargone that they can't just 'snap out of it', or 'faith heal'. These are the people who need medication.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I agree with you entirely.

 

CES said earlier that the mind is fragile and that it is hence shaped easily. I believe that "Eyesinbutt" believes the same thing, but the concept that this shaping can somehow lead to self-healing is contrary to logic...

 

Not exactly.

 

The human mind is an amazingly complex and fragile organism. Everything we eat or drink, see, hear, smell, taste and feel causes our mind to form and to shape. Each of us are unique in that regard, yet remarkably similar as well.

 

I do not believe that the mind is shaped easily; quite the contrary and I'm uncertain as to where you attribute that idea to me.

 

Please continue...

[TommyGun1928]

Not exactly.

 

 

 

I do not believe that the mind is shaped easily; quite the contrary and I'm uncertain as to where you attribute that idea to me.

 

Please continue...

 

"Not exactly" isn't an argument. You're slipping.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

"Not exactly" isn't an argument. You're slipping.

 

By God you are getting more stupid by the minute... Arrggg...

 

"Not exactly" referred to you claiming to quote what I had said earlier on in the post. You got it wrong. I should have said, "No idiot, your wrong" but I tried to be diplomatic.

 

Silly me.

[TommyGun1928]

I agree with you entirely.

 

CES said earlier that the mind is fragile and that it is hence shaped easily. I believe that "Eyesinbutt" believes the same thing, but the concept that this shaping can somehow lead to self-healing is contrary to logic. The mind is unlike any other organ. Most parts of the body, when damaged, heal (and some even become stronger, like callouses on skin) through the process of cellular mitosis. When it comes to the brain, that healing power is lost. If you lose part of your brain, it's gone forever. Your body has to bypass certain areas and, if you're lucky, parts of it may be remade by the transformation of stem cells.

 

But that's only if you lose part of your brain. What you're saying is that people can have serious psychological disorders, like you state that you had, and deal with it, somehow healing themselves automatically. That is a very difficult thing to believe-- the entire process has much too much left to chanec.

 

And, yes, it is extremely narrow-minded to believe that your case is comparable to all other cases. This means that because you could deal with it until you somehow got over it (a process which you still haven't proven was automatic/an ability the brain posesses) does not mean in the slightest that everyone can do the same thing. People have varrying degrees of disorder, and that means that some are so completely fargone that they can't just 'snap out of it', or 'faith heal'. These are the people who need medication.

 

To sum it up, faith healing is a sham. Too many people fall for analogies that contradict the truth. In this case, the mind can heal from a psychological disorder as a limb heals from a physical injury.

[eisanbt]

People have varrying degrees of disorder, and that means that some are so completely fargone that they can't just 'snap out of it', or 'faith heal'. These are the people who need medication.

 

 

I agree, and stated this in the very first post of this thread, I did not make an all-encompassing umbrella statment...

[manicmonday]

But being on a drug is not a valid excuse to call yourself crazy, really I just think its people being weak. I share the same (Well similar) bullshit as these crazy folk, but I was never medicated. I fought through trauma and neuroticism with thought alone, being isolated in the country even meant a lack of peer support. But it just goes to show that its possible and I'd say preferable.

This is a blanket statement. You are saying that since you could do it then anyone else can. I want to know what proof that you are a full functionable person, living a productive life helping other people. I want proof.

When I see a friend or even an acquaintance go on a drug, legal or otherwise, to help them function... I'm bothered. When you add a drug in the mix, when you add that bullshit escape from self-responsibility, that is what you become.

I hate the idea of becoming Prozac or Fucking Dope or booze or anything else. My mind is up to me to handle and heal, to-hell with cop-outs.

Yoo-hoo, blanket statement calling, diner for one. I'll be chewing my nails and twiddling my hair waiting for prove that you are living a productful life that will be prosperous. Not prosperous money wise, prosperous in many otherwise. I love hearing when a person has an uneducated opinion that is unfounded in reality and tries to push that thought on the masses. Tom Cruise wanna be.

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Hey, MM... his nick isn't "Eyes In Butt" for nothing, you know.

[manicmonday]

Hey, MM... his nick isn't "Eyes In Butt" for nothing, you know.

 

Thank you for reminding me MRIH. I had forgetten;)

[snafu]

While I agree with you analogy I don’t know why you through in this. You don’t pity the crack head as apposed to a legitimate mental condition is that the crack head had a conscious choice. Now someone playing the mental handicap card for sympathy or advancement would be a different story.

 

 

While I agree with your analogy I don’t know why you throw in this.

 

No one pity’s a crack addict, why pity someone who is mentally unstable?

 

You don’t pity the crack head as apposed to a legitimate mental condition is that the crack head had a conscious choice. Now someone playing the mental handicap card for sympathy or advancement would be a different story.

[jokersarewild]

No one pity

[eisanbt]

There are those out there who more adequate fill this title, who

[eisanbt]

There are those out there who more adequate fill this title, who

[eisanbt]

There are those out there who more adequate fill this title, who’s minds are unable to function in the same reality as most. Am I a tad odd?; I guess. Are these friends of mine odd, yes. But being on a drug is not a valid excuse to call yourself crazy, really I just think its people being weak.

 

 

My statements concerning copping out or using drugs as a crutch are applied only to those who, as I said above, do have the mental capability to fix themselves. The amount of supposedly afflicted people whom are medicated and are coaxed into accepting it as reality are far greater than the number of folk who are beyond self aid. Even if these people are more challenged than most to live well, they still have the ability to do so.

 

I believe it is up to each of us to strive for self-improvement and with so much uncharted ground in the human mind and with such people as yogis training themselves constantly, showing us what is possible even if we don't yet know why, I say there is hope for those who wish to rid themselves of the drug life.

 

 

As for my resum

[jokersarewild]

My statements concerning copping out or using drugs as a crutch are applied only to those who, as I said above, do have the mental capability to fix themselves. The amount of supposedly afflicted people whom are medicated and are coaxed into accepting it as reality are far greater than the number of folk who are beyond self aid. Even if these people are more challenged than most to live well, they still have the ability to do so.

 

Ok, if they have the mental capacity to deal with their ailment, then they don't have that ailment, or they don't have enough of it to be considered a victem of that ailment.

 

I believe it is up to each of us to strive for self-improvement and with so much uncharted ground in the human mind and with such people as yogis training themselves constantly, showing us what is possible even if we don't yet know why, I say there is hope for those who wish to rid themselves of the drug life.

 

Ok, those on Prozac and Zoloft aren't druggies, ya dipshit.

 

BTW, beliefs in a world where facts cure things, are retarded.

_______

 

-I live with my 12 of my dearest friends, and my groovy girlfriend. There is always food, fun and somebody to waste life with. We also are currently taking care of 3 stray cats and one stray rabbit (Who would have thought you could find a stray rabbit in the city?)

 

I wasn't aware chicks were aloud in Fraternities...

 

The above is enough to make me happy with my life, it doesn

[eisanbt]

Ok, if they have the mental capacity to deal with their ailment, then they don't have that ailment, or they don't have enough of it to be considered a victem of that ailment.

 

No, if they suffer severly from an ailment than they don't have the mental capacity, mild suffering is not totally unmanagable..

 

BTW, beliefs in a world where facts cure things, are retarded.

 

In 1133ad, the fact was that you couldn't fly. Opps, than somebody discovered you could... Crazy how we can discover the funcition of what we observe isn't it?

 

 

 

I wasn't aware chicks were aloud in Fraternities...

 

Jocks make me queezy, the folks I live with I've been friends with for a number of years. (With 2 more recent exceptions, and the hitchhikers staying in my living room)

 

 

Then why exactly did you put your resume down to ask for acceptance from MM?

 

Becuase she asked me to, I'm proad of what I'm doing with my life and want to do so much more. She asked for proof that I wasn't a useless shit and, as debates go, I provided facts to the contrary.

[snafu]

 

 

-I live with my 12 of my dearest friends, and my groovy girlfriend. There is always food, fun and somebody to waste life with.

 

The above is enough to make me happy with my life, it doesn’t much matter how you feel I guess.

 

Sounds like you live in a commune. Rock on my hippy bro!

[jokersarewild]

In 1133ad, the fact was that you couldn't fly. Opps, than somebody discovered you could... Crazy how we can discover the funcition of what we observe isn't it?

And the fact is that we still can't. We can step inside of machines that can.

 

And flight is a physical thing, not mental. We don't know enough about the brain to prove the shit you're saying, so you have nothing to back you up, so you fail.

[manicmonday]

My statements concerning copping out or using drugs as a crutch are applied only to those who, as I said above, do have the mental capability to fix themselves. The amount of supposedly afflicted people whom are medicated and are coaxed into accepting it as reality are far greater than the number of folk who are beyond self aid. Even if these people are more challenged than most to live well, they still have the ability to do so.

 

And what gives you this knowledge? What degree do you have that proves people can self heal? I have my Masters, what you have? Being diagnosed and then self healing yourself doesn't count.

 

I believe it is up to each of us to strive for self-improvement and with so much uncharted ground in the human mind and with such people as yogis training themselves constantly, showing us what is possible even if we don't yet know why, I say there is hope for those who wish to rid themselves of the drug life.

 

First off, I believe in self improvement. I accomplish it every day. But where you go off my radar is when you said "yogis". I don't believe now or ever will that New Age will heal the medicine. Positive thinking in clinical studies has been proven to be a great thing, along side with medicine, therapy and other relaxation techiniques. The word there is along side. Never by it's self. "I'm going to wish myself cured of cancer today, poof, it happened." I don't think so.

 

 

As for my resum

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...I leave for Ghana in 2 months...

 

Take it from me, I know. Want to stay happy in life? Then stay the fuck as far away from Africa as you possibly can. It is the single most fucked up place in the world. All of it. Truly, it's a complete shit hole and law is dispensed at the end of a gun and changes moment by moment.

 

Besides, the Africans hate outsiders and don't like having their misery messed with.

 

Africa... http://www.filecabi.net/video/jungle-headache.html

[jokersarewild]

If you have a crippled cow do you not put it down? Yes you may feel some sympathy but still you put the dysfunctional animal down don

[eisanbt]

And what gives you this knowledge? What degree do you have that proves people can self heal? I have my Masters, what you have? Being diagnosed and then self healing yourself doesn't count.

 

First off, I believe in self improvement. I accomplish it every day. But where you go off my radar is when you said "yogis". I don't believe now or ever will that New Age will heal the medicine.

 

New Age has nothing to do with it. I am far from a re-birth psyche hippie who thinks all the worlds problems will be cured if I just meditate on them enough. My reference to yogis is just a mention to the works done by the 'Mind and Life' Institute.

 

http://www.mindandlife.org/initiatives_section.html

 

I will repeat this one last time; We are 90% on the same page here.

-I do not think one can heal all maladies on their own, but a range of disorders (Given they are not severe) can be taken care of by ourselves.

 

-The number of people who are merely medicated and left with that as their therapy far exceeds the number of those who are actively perusing both (Which is preferable). As I'm sure you know, taking drugs is a terrible Band-Aid as the mind is not something simple to be toyed with. Prescribed drug use is just as bad as illegal drug use in this sense

 

-In light of the above, I think for those with the ability to self-heal (Of which there are plenty among the day-to-day pill poppers), this alternative would be better to implement so we might avoid the side effects of drugs which, from what I have observed of people who take them, can be just as bad as the original symptom. These people certainly suffer something, but pills are not curing their woes.

 

Well So you live in a commune with more people than you can shake a stick at so none of you have to be responsible? Sounds unfilling and a great way to get an STD, but if it's your bag, than fabulous. And volunteer work. Great. I think all of that is great. However, you are missing something. Responsiblity. You want people to take responsibility for diseases they have no control over, yet you seem unwilling to claim responsiblity for paying your own way in life, living on your own and being an adult. That's interesting. Don't think I will forget this piece of information for later time.

 

You should know better than trying to create an accurate analyse of somebody based on such little information as I provided you. Trying to push psychological buttons requires a little more understanding of the person, or at least the ability to recognize things such as the responsibility given to you by 16 kid's parents when they leave you alone with them to fight each other for hours and come out clean on the other side. Or that responsibility taken when you don't sit idly by and instead, take responsibility, for your environment.

 

Just because I believe that we all have the fundamental right to food and shelter and would not hold my self-attained possession of either over somebody's head and instead welcome them to simply live...Dose not mean I lack responsibility. This of course is not including the independent work required for University or any of my other endeavours. Perhaps if you brought up my father and told me I had an Electra-Complex, I'll surly be rawled up than.

 

 

Well deer are happy right before they are shot, but it doesn't mean the reality will change for them. Their head will still end up on the wall at the end of the day. So happy, in the terms you are talking about, doesn't mean to me you are living a successfull life with your self healing.

 

Better to be the deer then the cold machine that annihilates it, eh?