Ethanol and the law of unintended consequences

[Guest Ouroboros_Rex]

Harold Burton wrote:

> In article <ft2pnh$i7j$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>,

> "Ouroboros_Rex" <its@casual.com> wrote:

>

>

>> The usual nothing, from the usual nothing.

>

>

>

>

> Good job at self-appraisal.

 

As usual, more nothing.

[Guest Ouroboros_Rex]

Harold Burton wrote:

> In article <ft2pje$i6s$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>,

> "Ouroboros_Rex" <its@casual.com> wrote:

>

>> James wrote:

>>> "Ouroboros_Rex" <its@casual.com> wrote in message

>>> news:ft0mre$p6c$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...

>>>> calderhome@yahoo.com wrote:

>>>>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2008/04/02/cstillwell.

>>>>> DTL&type=printable

>>>>>

>>>>> Fuel or folly?

>>>>>

>>>>> Ethanol and the law of unintended consequences

>>>>>

>>>>> by Cinnamon Stillwell Wednesday, April 2, 2008

>>>>>

>>>>> In the pantheon of well-intentioned governmental policies gone

>>>>> awry, massive ethanol biofuel production may go down as one of

>>>>> the biggest blunders in history. An unholy alliance of

>>>>> environmentalists, agribusiness, biofuel corporations and

>>>>> politicians has been touting ethanol as the cure to all our

>>>>> environmental ills, when in fact it may be doing more harm than

>>>>> good. An array of unintended consequences is wreaking havoc on

>>>>> the economy, food production and, perhaps most ironically, the

>>>>> environment.

>>>>>

>>>>> Biofuels are fuels distilled from plant matter. Ethanol is

>>>>> corn-based, but other common biofuel sources include soybeans,

>>>>> sugar cane and palm oil, an edible vegetable oil. In the search

>>>>> for alternatives to fossil fuels, many countries have turned to

>>>>> biofuels, which has led to a booming business for those involved.

>>>>> In the United States, ethanol is the primary focus and, as a

>>>>> result, corn growers and ethanol producers are subsidized heavily

>>>>> by the government. But it turns out that the use of food for fuel

>>>>> is wrought with

>>>>> difficulties. Corn, or some derivative thereof, is a common

>>>>> ingredient in a variety of packaged food products. So it's only

>>>>> natural that, as it becomes a rarer commodity due to the

>>>>> conflicting demands of biofuel production, the prices of those

>>>>> products will go up.

>>>>

>>>> Nope. There's plenty of nonedible GM corn and plenty of other

>>>> non-food plant species to use. The current price artifacts are

>>>> temporary.

>>>

>>> rex lies again.

>>

>> Cite, liar?

>

>

> You first, you're the liar that claimed:

>

>

> "There's plenty of nonedible GM corn and plenty of other non-food

> plant species to use. The current price artifacts are temporary."

>

>

> Prove it.

 

http://tinyurl.com/2mtuvd

 

http://www.chevron.com/deliveringenergy/biofuels/

 

http://www.jatoil.net/pdfs/Jatoil%20Press%20Release.pdf

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS171517+13-Feb-2008+BW20080213

[Guest Ouroboros_Rex]

Harold Burton wrote:

> In article <ft0mre$p6c$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>,

> "Ouroboros_Rex" <its@casual.com> wrote:

>

>> calderhome@yahoo.com wrote:

>>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2008/04/02/cstillwell.DT

>>> L&type=printable

>>>

>>> Fuel or folly?

>>>

>>> Ethanol and the law of unintended consequences

>>>

>>> by Cinnamon Stillwell Wednesday, April 2, 2008

>>>

>>> In the pantheon of well-intentioned governmental policies gone awry,

>>> massive ethanol biofuel production may go down as one of the biggest

>>> blunders in history. An unholy alliance of environmentalists,

>>> agribusiness, biofuel corporations and politicians has been touting

>>> ethanol as the cure to all our environmental ills, when in fact it

>>> may be doing more harm than good. An array of unintended

>>> consequences is wreaking havoc on the economy, food production and,

>>> perhaps most ironically, the environment.

>>>

>>> Biofuels are fuels distilled from plant matter. Ethanol is

>>> corn-based, but other common biofuel sources include soybeans,

>>> sugar cane and palm oil, an edible vegetable oil. In the search for

>>> alternatives to fossil fuels, many countries have turned to

>>> biofuels, which has led to a booming business for those involved.

>>> In the United States, ethanol is the primary focus and, as a

>>> result, corn growers and ethanol producers are subsidized heavily

>>> by the government.

>>>

>>> But it turns out that the use of food for fuel is wrought with

>>> difficulties. Corn, or some derivative thereof, is a common

>>> ingredient in a variety of packaged food products. So it's only

>>> natural that, as it becomes a rarer commodity due to the

>>> conflicting demands of biofuel production, the prices of those

>>> products will go up.

>>

>> Nope. There's plenty of nonedible GM corn and plenty of other

>> non-food plant species to use. The current price artifacts are

>> temporary.

>

>

>

> Hehehehe. You seem to specialize in being wrong.

 

As usual, the right winger has nothing.

[Guest Ouroboros_Rex]

HarryNadds wrote:

> On Apr 2, 3:01 pm, "Ouroboros_Rex" <i...@casual.com> wrote:

>> Bill Miller wrote:

>>> <calderh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>>> news:cbee7e55-9b4c-4f4b-827f-a08efe7619ba@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

>>

>>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2008/04/02/cstill...

>>

>>>> Fuel or folly?

>>

>>>> Ethanol and the law of unintended consequences

>>

>>>> by Cinnamon Stillwell Wednesday, April 2, 2008

>>

>>>> In the pantheon of well-intentioned governmental policies gone

>>>> awry, massive ethanol biofuel production may go down as one of the

>>>> biggest blunders in history. An unholy alliance of

>>>> environmentalists, agribusiness, biofuel corporations and

>>>> politicians has been touting ethanol as the cure to all our

>>>> environmental ills, when in fact it may be doing more harm than

>>>> good. An array of unintended consequences is wreaking havoc on the

>>>> economy, food production and, perhaps most ironically, the

>>>> environment.

>>

>>> If either one of the three liberals running for Potus win, you can

>>> expect the UN well be calling the shots for what we can grow in the

>>> US. The canidates all want to sign on to LOST ( The Law of The Sea

>>> Treaty ). There is hidden away in the treaty in fine print that

>>> there can be repercussions for any nation that pollutes the UNs

>>> oceans. Everyone knows corn is one of the worse crops you can plant

>>> for damage to the seas. We should start drilling for gas and oil

>>> off our coasts before the UN takes over the floor of all the worlds

>>> oceans.

>>

>> Oh no, the UN! They want to take over the world, with their

>> can't-get-anything-done assemblage of powerless ambassadors kept

>> down by the USA! RUN!!!!- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> - Show quoted text -

>

> Please list the accomplishments of the "hate USA first" UN.

 

There isn't one, despite hateful lying right wingers' fevered anguish at

being proven wrong about Iraq when the UN inspectors were right - which is

what your real problem with them is.

 

As far as the real, non-right-wing-lunacy UN is concerned:

 

http://www.una-usadanecounty.org/about/index.php?category_id=1550

[Guest Ouroboros_Rex]

HarryNadds wrote:

> On Apr 3, 4:55 am, Whata Fool <wh...@fool.ami> wrote:

>> "calderh...@yahoo.com" <calderh...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2008/04/02/cstill...

>>

>>> Fuel or folly?

>>

>>> Ethanol and the law of unintended consequences

>>

>>> by Cinnamon Stillwell Wednesday, April 2, 2008

>>

>>> In the pantheon of well-intentioned governmental policies gone awry,

>>> massive ethanol biofuel production may go down as one of the biggest

>>> blunders in history. An unholy alliance of environmentalists,

>>> agribusiness, biofuel corporations and politicians has been touting

>>> ethanol as the cure to all our environmental ills, when in fact it

>>> may be doing more harm than good.

>>

>> That is pure bullshit, all of the organizations

>> that lobbied and organized the industry were grain

>> farm co-ops and farmer-grain elevator business men.

>>

>> After 50 years of storage overflowing, and

>> government payments for not planting millions of

>> acres, they now are able to sell most of the crops.

>>

>> Animal feed is in greater supply than ever

>> before, the dried solids are available as "brewer's

>> grain".

>>

>> Only the oil companies lose as a result of

>> ethanol production, the environment gains because

>> even the 10 percent in gasoline burns cleaner and

>> adds octane giving better performance and efficiency.

>

> Adding ethanol to gasoline lowers fuel efficiency.

 

Sometimes.

 

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/12/ethanol-blends.html

 

http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmgmt/Press_Release_12507-1.pdf

[Guest Hank Kroll]

On Apr 2, 12:14

[Guest Harold Burton]

In article <ft37mu$sfj$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>,

"Ouroboros_Rex" <its@casual.com> wrote:

> Harold Burton wrote:

> > In article <ft2pje$i6s$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu>,

> > "Ouroboros_Rex" <its@casual.com> wrote:

> >

> >> James wrote:

> >>> "Ouroboros_Rex" <its@casual.com> wrote in message

> >>> news:ft0mre$p6c$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...

> >>>> calderhome@yahoo.com wrote:

> >>>>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2008/04/02/cstillwel

> >>>>> l.

> >>>>> DTL&type=printable

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Fuel or folly?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Ethanol and the law of unintended consequences

> >>>>>

> >>>>> by Cinnamon Stillwell Wednesday, April 2, 2008

> >>>>>

> >>>>> In the pantheon of well-intentioned governmental policies gone

> >>>>> awry, massive ethanol biofuel production may go down as one of

> >>>>> the biggest blunders in history. An unholy alliance of

> >>>>> environmentalists, agribusiness, biofuel corporations and

> >>>>> politicians has been touting ethanol as the cure to all our

> >>>>> environmental ills, when in fact it may be doing more harm than

> >>>>> good. An array of unintended consequences is wreaking havoc on

> >>>>> the economy, food production and, perhaps most ironically, the

> >>>>> environment.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Biofuels are fuels distilled from plant matter. Ethanol is

> >>>>> corn-based, but other common biofuel sources include soybeans,

> >>>>> sugar cane and palm oil, an edible vegetable oil. In the search

> >>>>> for alternatives to fossil fuels, many countries have turned to

> >>>>> biofuels, which has led to a booming business for those involved.

> >>>>> In the United States, ethanol is the primary focus and, as a

> >>>>> result, corn growers and ethanol producers are subsidized heavily

> >>>>> by the government. But it turns out that the use of food for fuel

> >>>>> is wrought with

> >>>>> difficulties. Corn, or some derivative thereof, is a common

> >>>>> ingredient in a variety of packaged food products. So it's only

> >>>>> natural that, as it becomes a rarer commodity due to the

> >>>>> conflicting demands of biofuel production, the prices of those

> >>>>> products will go up.

> >>>>

> >>>> Nope. There's plenty of nonedible GM corn and plenty of other

> >>>> non-food plant species to use. The current price artifacts are

> >>>> temporary.

> >>>

> >>> rex lies again.

> >>

> >> Cite, liar?

> >

> >

> > You first, you're the liar that claimed:

> >

> >

> > "There's plenty of nonedible GM corn and plenty of other non-food

> > plant species to use. The current price artifacts are temporary."

> >

> >

> > Prove it.

>

> http://tinyurl.com/2mtuvd

 

 

Nope, doesn't prove it, try again.

[Guest Whata Fool]

HarryNadds <hoofhearted07@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Adding ethanol to gasoline lowers fuel efficiency.If the evil oil

>companies thought ethanol was such a threat to their survival they'd

>have been in the ethanol business LONG before the government mandated

>its use.

 

No, it doesn't lower fuel efficiency, ethanol burns

at a different fuel-air ratio, but can provide as much,

or more power per gallon as gasoline, but only if the

engine is modified and tuned for it.

 

Instead of repeating outhouse rumors, try to

keep up with developments, read all of

 

http://biooutput.blogspot.com/2008/01/surprising-mpg-results-for-low-blends.html

[Guest Harold Burton]

In article <U0PJj.46373$dA2.2483@read2.cgocable.net>,

"V-for-Vendicar" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote:

> "Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote

> > Nope, doesn't prove it, try again.

>

> Then look at the other 4 references provides.

 

 

They didn't either.

 

 

> Cock Sucker.

 

 

You're projecting.

[Guest Harold Burton]

In article <O1PJj.50295$612.2551@read1.cgocable.net>,

"V-for-Vendicar" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote:

> "Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote

> > Hehehehe. You seem to specialize in being wrong.

>

> References were provided...

 

 

....that didn't prove what you claimed.

[Guest Harold Burton]

In article <VlPJj.46377$dA2.7926@read2.cgocable.net>,

"V-for-Vendicar" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote:

> "HarryNadds" <hoofhearted07@yahoo.com> wrote

> > Adding ethanol to gasoline lowers fuel efficiency.

>

> Adding methol-lead to gasoline increases fuel efficiency, but then creates

>

> MMMMMMMOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRROOOOOOONNNNNNNSSSSSSSS

 

 

As your postings prove.

[Guest Harold Burton]

In article <ONOJj.50291$612.24716@read1.cgocable.net>,

"V-for-Vendicar" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote:

> <calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote

> > In the pantheon of well-intentioned governmental policies gone awry,

> > massive ethanol biofuel production may go down as one of the biggest

> > blunders in history.

>

> MMMMMMMOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNN

>

> AmeriKKKans have decided that it is more important to fuel their cars than

> to eat.

 

 

 

 

We're doing both, and quite well. Got my fully loaded SUV, got my prime

steaks, life is good.

[Guest Poetic Justice]

Harold Burton wrote:

> In article <ONOJj.50291$612.24716@read1.cgocable.net>,

> "V-for-Vendicar" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote:

>

>> <calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote

>>> In the pantheon of well-intentioned governmental policies gone awry,

>>> massive ethanol biofuel production may go down as one of the biggest

>>> blunders in history.

>> MMMMMMMOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNN

>>

>> AmeriKKKans have decided that it is more important to fuel their cars than

>> to eat.

>

>

>

>

> We're doing both, and quite well. Got my fully loaded SUV, got my prime

> steaks, life is good.

 

America has food, Arabs have our money to buy food, the Poor nations are

having to bite the bullet and starve their poor.... Maybe you Liberals

should mention it to Al Gore.

[Guest Harold Burton]

In article <uiWJj.46760$dA2.23978@read2.cgocable.net>,

"V-for-Vendicar" <Justice@ExecuteTheBushTraitor.com> wrote:

> >> MMMMMMMOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNN

> >>

> >> AmeriKKKans have decided that it is more important to fuel their cars

> >> than

> >> to eat.

>

> "Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote

> > We're doing both, and quite well.

>

> Ya, so well, that AmeriKKKa lost a quarter of a million jobs last quarter

>

> And your only 9.45 trillion in debt, with the U.S. dollar growing more

> and more worthless by the day.

 

 

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

 

 

snicker.

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

<calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote

> In the pantheon of well-intentioned governmental policies gone awry,

> massive ethanol biofuel production may go down as one of the biggest

> blunders in history.

 

MMMMMMMOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNN

 

AmeriKKKans have decided that it is more important to fuel their cars than

to eat.

 

Can the invisible hand of the marketplace be wrong?

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

"HarryNadds" <hoofhearted07@yahoo.com> wrote

> Why not tap into the mass quantities of methane gas and hot air from

> the democrat party??

 

Nadds is fixated on the Democratic party because he knows the

RepubliKKKant party is hiding in the darkest corner available, hardly

breathing, trying to be as small as a rat.

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

"chemist" <tom-bolger@ntlworld.com> wrote

> NINCOMPOOP

 

One day the "chemist" will graduate from public school. However it will

never get a degree in chemistry.

 

It's far too stupid for that.

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

"Bawana" <mrbawana2u@yahoo.com> wrote

> Nobody celebrates failure like a lib-turd demonkrap.

> the demonkrap motto:

 

RepubliKKKan failure that is.

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

"Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote

> Good job at self-appraisal.

 

As AmeriKKKa sinks deep into Bush Recession 2.

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

<calderhome@yahoo.com> wrote

> A new study from three agricultural economists at Iowa State

> University with insider information on the latest biofuel technology

> says ethanol made from cellulose will likely NEVER be affordable

 

LIAR.

 

The model they developed implies that fluctuations in market pricing for oil

and other liquid fuels makes

development of switchgrass based biofules economically impractical - using

current fermentation methods of production.

 

You aren't even capable of comprehending your own reference.

 

MMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNN

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

"James" <kingkongg@iglou.com> wrote

> rex lies again.

 

James lies again.

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

"Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote

> Nope, doesn't prove it, try again.

 

Then look at the other 4 references provides. Cock Sucker.

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

"Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote

> Hehehehe. You seem to specialize in being wrong.

 

References were provided. You failed to read them.

 

Keeping yourself ignorant is the hallmark of a KKKonservative

 

MMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOONNNNNNNN

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

"Bill Miller" <bmiller1@vwestdu.com> wrote

> If either one of the three liberals running for Potus win, you can

> expect the UN well be calling the shots for what we can grow in the US.

> The canidates all want to sign on to LOST ( The Law of The Sea

> Treaty ). There is hidden away in the treaty in fine print that there

> can be repercussions for any nation that pollutes the UNs oceans.

> Everyone knows corn is one of the worse crops you can plant for damage

> to the seas. We should start drilling for gas and oil off our coasts

> before the UN takes over the floor of all the worlds oceans.

 

Not only the Law of the Sea, but the world court as well.

 

No matter. AmeriKKKa had it's chance, and failed.

 

And now we will continue to crush the life out of the failed AmeriKKKan

state.

[Guest V-for-Vendicar]

"Ouroboros_Rex" <its@casual.com> wrote

> Oh no, the UN! They want to take over the world, with their

> can't-get-anything-done assemblage of powerless ambassadors kept down by

> the USA! RUN!!!!

 

AmeriKKKan KKKonservatives are pathetic cowards aren't they.

 

Maybe a black helicopter should be sent to buzz around Miller's house, so

he will shit his pants again.