WW3 has just begun, in a quiet suburb near London UK.....*sigh*

[ToriAllen]

Well, as usual, it is the kids that always pay the price for the mistakes of their parents.

 

If it makes you feel any better, there was a story of a 10 year old girl giving birth a couple days ago with the daddy being 13, imagine how bad that could be.

 

Clearly this is a bad situation but I hope the new addition will be loved and not just tolerated as many children are these days.

 

Well Feckless, are you ready to be a granny?

 

There is worse. This should really make you feel better... 11 year old giving birth where the 11 year olds mom is 22...

Congrats and condolences.

[timesjoke]

Presuming of course that they actually keep it.......

 

 

Wow, imagine starting out on life with that on your head, I hope they don't do that. While having a child now will be difficult and change their plans, I hate to see anyone burdoned with ending a life. Recent studies have shown that most women have depression issues much later in life after having an abortion so it is like paying a bad price later for a decision made today.

 

 

If they do this, make sure the girl gets lots of support, it will be messy.

 

Man, as a parent I am sure you want to knock some heads together, what do you do?

 

Are you trying to give advise or keeping your distance?

[Feckless Wench]

I've given her the facts on both sides of the argument. I have not however shared my own views on the subject with her as I would not want to have her in my face in 5 years time blaming me for whichever choice she makes. Whatever they choose I'll just be Mom...and supportive. However hard it bites. I've had that part of my life and had the chance to make my own choices, it's their time now.

[Old Salt]

How are the young lady's parents handling the situation? I hope they're providing support and advice, as well. My youngest daughter got pregnant and married the father. It was only a couple of years before they got divorced. The young man couldn't get a hang of being married and stuck with only one woman. He knew how to be a father (as evidenced by several children - by different mothers), but couldn't seem to understand how to be a "daddy".

[Guest DougT]

...... and FW is clearly showing that she knows how to be both a Mother and "Mum".(IMHO)

[Feckless Wench]

How are the young lady's parents handling the situation? I hope they're providing support and advice, as well. My youngest daughter got pregnant and married the father. It was only a couple of years before they got divorced. The young man couldn't get a hang of being married and stuck with only one woman. He knew how to be a father (as evidenced by several children - by different mothers), but couldn't seem to understand how to be a "daddy".

 

She refuses to tell her parents yet. I have told her how hurt her mother is likely to feel when she eventually finds out, especially when she knows that others knew before her. Half of me really wants to call her mother and tell her....but .....it's not my place to do that.

 

What is amazing to me is the fact that yesterday I spent 4 hours in the ER with her ('morning sickness' spiralling out of control to the point of continual vomiting).....STILL she didn't want me to call her Mother, not even when she had a bad reaction to the initial anti-nausea drug they gave her. ( shudders at the memory , I have always hated being around when others get sick...just one more of those yukky 'Mom' things you have to get over and pretend to be 'just fine' with....LOL).

 

The poor kid has clearly never been 'mothered' by the way she reacts to things and the way she behaves...but for goodness sake, she really SHOULD tell her mother before it gets to the point that she is wearing large tents instead of dresses!

 

From what I've seen and heard about the Mother, she's a perfectly reasonable woman.

[Feckless Wench]

...... and FW is clearly showing that she knows how to be both a Mother and "Mum".(IMHO)

 

 

Thank you Doug, that's nice. :o

[Guest TOW]

I know if my daughter was prego my wife would be very upset if the fathers mom was helping instead of her. That's sad if this girl is afraid to tell her mom.

[timesjoke]

First of all, I would like to add my own respect to you FW, you seem to be a very rare woman, capable of both being supportive and informative without getting your personal views in the way of things, I tip my hat to you.

 

 

 

 

I know if my daughter was prego my wife would be very upset if the fathers mom was helping instead of her. That's sad if this girl is afraid to tell her mom.

 

 

 

I completely agree but I also see FW's point, she is wanting to let the girl do the right thing but as with most young people, they hate to face what they feel ashamed of, so she will most likely keep putting it off until her mother finds out by accident, and that will hurt the mom a lot, I hope she can see past it.

 

 

Myself, I would tell the girl to tell her mom or I will. It may upset the girl but in the long run, there will be less mess now than if she lets it "slip" down the road. Parents sometimes need to be parents instead of friends and do the right thing, telling the mom is the right thing.

 

But, it is easy for me to say, I am not there.

 

Either way, my prayers go out to these two.

 

 

FW, how is your son taking this? Keeping his mouth shut?

[eddo]

First of all, I would like to add my own respect to you FW, you seem to be a very rare woman, capable of both being supportive and informative without getting your personal views in the way of things, I tip my hat to you.

 

I think I disagree with this. I love Feckless, and admire her immensely, but what is the point of having a lifetime of experience if you don't and won't share it with your kids (even if they are adult?)

 

I can see the point of not forcing these now thrust into adulthood children into doing what you want them to do, but isn't being a parent about guiding and leading your kids into healthy decisions? These two obviously aren't prepared to be making full grown adult decisions (shown by their lack of responsibility thusfar: the boy still living with the folks, and the girl not being able to tell her mom.) IMO, more guidance is needed- not just "Here's the facts, go do whatever you want."

 

And maybe you are doing more than that Feckless, but it didn't come across like that to me.

[timesjoke]

It is difficult for most of us to remember being that age but many times kids under this kid of pressure will do exactly the opposite of what their parents tell them to do.

 

Being informative is more then most kids this age will get because they feel like they cannot talk about this stuff with their parents, so they act in an uninformed way without ever telling them just to avoid the lecture.

 

This is called the school of hard knocks and why should FW drive them away by adding more pressure than is already there?

 

 

FW is making them feel comfortable to keep her involved by not putting more pressure on their backs and in that way, she can still keep them aware of all aspects of their decision, something that would be impossible if they did not feel comfortable with having her involved.

[snafu]

Feck is this your sons girlfriend? And this would be you’re grandchild? You need to make her tell her mom and fast! You have to deal with her parents for the next 18 years. You don’t want to start it by being deceitful. If the girlfriend won’t tell you should. I mean the mom is gonna find out soon enough.

[Old Salt]

No offense to FW and her family, but this is starting to sound like a story line from East Enders.

[Feckless Wench]

FW, how is your son taking this? Keeping his mouth shut?

 

He's saying very little, only that he would prefer her not to have the child. I just feel utterly ashamed that MY child could ever value human life so little. I clearly failed in teaching him that lesson.

[Feckless Wench]

I think I disagree with this. I love Feckless, and admire her immensely, but what is the point of having a lifetime of experience if you don't and won't share it with your kids (even if they are adult?)

 

I can see the point of not forcing these now thrust into adulthood children into doing what you want them to do, but isn't being a parent about guiding and leading your kids into healthy decisions? These two obviously aren't prepared to be making full grown adult decisions (shown by their lack of responsibility thusfar: the boy still living with the folks, and the girl not being able to tell her mom.) IMO, more guidance is needed- not just "Here's the facts, go do whatever you want."

 

And maybe you are doing more than that Feckless, but it didn't come across like that to me.

 

Eddo, it's finding the line between guidance and swaying their decision. You know me well enough by now to know my views on human life and how repulsed I am feeling at the thought they may well choose to throw this little life away. How DARE they think they have the right to CHOOSE whether another PERSON lives or dies?? THEY made this person with full knowledge of the possible outcome of their 'moment of passion'....Had they had ANY doubts then the morning after pill is freely available. To wait until 11 weeks is inexcusable, I felt my first child moving at 12 weeks!

 

I cannot see HOW I can advise without letting my own opinions get in the way. Half of me wants to say to them for goodness sake HAVE the child and I will bring it up! But that would mean that the life Ad & I have built will change irrevocably.....which is selfishness on my part.

 

I just want to grab the pair of them and slap them silly. I can't sleep, I can't eat and it's breaking my heart to see what they are doing. It's made 100 times worse knowing that my best friend at work is desperate for a child but is so far unlucky.

 

You are right though (as per bloody usual )....time for a 'Mom chat'.

[Feckless Wench]

No offense to FW and her family, but this is starting to sound like a story line from East Enders.

 

I wish it was EastEnders......I would be picking up the remote DAMN quick!

[Feckless Wench]

Feck is this your sons girlfriend? And this would be you’re grandchild? You need to make her tell her mom and fast! You have to deal with her parents for the next 18 years. You don’t want to start it by being deceitful. If the girlfriend won’t tell you should. I mean the mom is gonna find out soon enough.

 

Snafu, I wouldn't know her mother if I passed her in the street. However, IF this continues into next week I'll march her to her house myself and MAKE her tell her. I fail to see how I am being deceitful though, it's not my story to tell.

[snafu]

Snafu, I wouldn't know her mother if I passed her in the street. However, IF this continues into next week I'll march her to her house myself and MAKE her tell her. I fail to see how I am being deceitful though, it's not my story to tell.

 

Either way if they become the other grandparents or not, you will recognize them well enough. I would never forgive someone that new my daughter was pregnant and they aborted. I would be pissed if I knew those same adults kept this information from me because for I would like to be there in the kid’s lives during the preganacy. If she aborts and dosn't tell her mom, wouldn't that be decite? Wouldn't she have to keep it to herself forever?

[timesjoke]

He's saying very little, only that he would prefer her not to have the child. I just feel utterly ashamed that MY child could ever value human life so little. I clearly failed in teaching him that lesson.

 

Damn, I hope they don't take that step.

 

I have two worlds of belief that I follow in my life, one is my faith and the other is the devotion to personal responsibility I feel is necessary to live in a society.

 

In my world, killing an unborn child is something that would destroy me completely so I think I can relate to what you are feeling at this point.

 

 

As you already pointed out, there are thousands of loving people that would love to take this child and raise it as their own. Life is a miracle, it should not be created without proper consideration but if it is created in that way, two wrongs do not make a right.

 

How far down the road of despair has society gone when we make even the womb a dangerious place for children.

 

 

 

 

I know the balancing point you are trying to keep FW and I respect it. I don't think I could have kept it up this long. I think you have given them the facts and been neutral long enough though and need to help them not do something so horrible.

 

I will pray for you and them for the next few days, God bless you to find the right words.

[Feckless Wench]

Either way if they become the other grandparents or not, you will recognize them well enough. I would never forgive someone that new my daughter was pregnant and they aborted. I would be pissed if I knew those same adults kept this information from me because for I would like to be there in the kid’s lives during the preganacy. If she aborts and dosn't tell her mom, wouldn't that be decite? Wouldn't she have to keep it to herself forever?

 

Yes, but not MY deceit. She is an adult. IF she chooses not to have a relationship with her mother then it is not my place to force the issue. I can only advise her as to what to do, not force her. I have already mentioned the fact that IF she chooses not to share this with her mother then it is a thing that she will have to bear alone for the rest of her life...along with mentioning just how much it is likely to mess with her head at a later date.

[Feckless Wench]

I know the balancing point you are trying to keep FW and I respect it. I don't think I could have kept it up this long. I think you have given them the facts and been neutral long enough though and need to help them not do something so horrible.

 

I will pray for you and them for the next few days, God bless you to find the right words.

 

Thanks for the prayers Timesjoke, much appreciated. I did speak to my son last night. I didn't get angry or emotional, just told him how I felt in a calm and reasonable manner.

 

I said that I could quite understand how it could be thought of as acceptable to use the morning after pill IF you suspect that 'something' might have happened. After all, how many pregnancies fail in the first few days and we never know about it? If the pregnancy never attaches to the lining of the womb then it could never be thought of as a viable life.

 

I also told him that to leave it until almost 3 months into the pregnancy was, as far as I was concerned, on a par with putting a gun to someone's head and pulling the trigger. I let him know that I found the whole thing deeply upsetting and that should they choose to continue with the pregnancy they would not be alone. I made it VERY clear to him that on NO account should she be made to feel that she HAD to abort to please those around her.........He got my point.

[timesjoke]

Update please, has the girl told her mother?

 

Will they keep the child?

 

Get married?

 

ETC......