Hey, why don't we "LIBERATE" Burma?

[eddo]

Only now, I already know the answer most of the time before I ask the question.

 

quite honestly the most close-minded thing I have ever read.

 

 

 

And Wez, you do know that Jesus didn't speak English, right? The translations that you read are just that- translations. And translations from a more complex language into a simple one. The meaning single verses can be very much taken a multitude of ways (or made to 'fit like a glove' as you say.) It is extremely important to look, as Timesoke said, at the complete context in which it was written.

[timesjoke]

As a true believer, I will be the judge of the correct intrepretations of religious works, you do not have the ability to do so.

 

 

You have good points about certain things but you allow those points to completely close your mind to the fact that sometimes we must decide to act on a situation of the least of all evils.

 

 

You point your finger and do nothing yourself. You want oil to magically appear at the gas station and refuse to consider the many complex issues governing the trip it must take to get there.

 

 

You forget that when we were helping people like Bin Laden, it was a choice of either helping him, or letting Russia take over that area. Helping or not helping Bin Laden was bad either way but we had to decide what bad thing was less bad, a thing leaders do, and complainers just keep complaining because that is all they can ever do.

 

 

The war in Iraq was for many reasons, not one, it is called a complex issue, most likely too complex for you to understand being as you keep saying it was for oil and we only kill innocent people.

 

 

 

Where was America when Russia was trying to take over the world? Did we mind our own business and let them do what they wanted or did we take action and stop it with all the world benefitting from our actions?

[wez]

quite honestly the most close-minded thing I have ever read.

 

 

 

And Wez, you do know that Jesus didn't speak English, right? The translations that you read are just that- translations. And translations from a more complex language into a simple one. The meaning single verses can be very much taken a multitude of ways (or made to 'fit like a glove' as you say.) It is extremely important to look, as Timesoke said, at the complete context in which it was written.

 

What I should have said eddo, was, I usually already know the answer the person I'm asking will give me... quite empowering. Ask Tori if that would help her as a lawyer...

[wez]

As a true believer, I will be the judge of the correct intrepretations of religious works, you do not have the ability to do so.

 

Hahahahahahaha... I'm not tainted by anyones "training", I think I have the ability to understand the truth.

 

You have good points about certain things but you allow those points to completely close your mind to the fact that sometimes we must decide to act on a situation of the least of all evils.

 

How about we choose good, instead of any evil?

 

You point your finger and do nothing yourself. You want oil to magically appear at the gas station and refuse to consider the many complex issues governing the trip it must take to get there.

 

I thought oil was out of this discussion? Is that why we lie, cheat, and kill around the world? No more back and forth or your new nickname will be "waffle".

 

 

You forget that when we were helping people like Bin Laden, it was a choice of either helping him, or letting Russia take over that area. Helping or not helping Bin Laden was bad either way but we had to decide what bad thing was less bad, a thing leaders do, and complainers just keep complaining because that is all they can ever do.

 

Bad choice, eh?

 

 

The war in Iraq was for many reasons, not one, it is called a complex issue, most likely too complex for you to understand being as you keep saying it was for oil and we only kill innocent people.

 

Never said anything of the sort.. I told you to decide, and the truth is never complex, only lies and deception.

 

 

Where was America when Russia was trying to take over the world? Did we mind our own business and let them do what they wanted or did we take action and stop it with all the world benefitting from our actions?

 

Apparently, we had some business in Panama to take care of first... Trying to take over the world? Hahahahahahahahaha.. That's a good one.

[eddo]

What I should have said eddo, was, I usually already know the answer the person I'm asking will give me... quite empowering. Ask Tori if that would help her as a lawyer...

 

ok, that makes more sense, but it is still close minded. We aren't in a court of law, we are on a discussion board. And instead of actually discussing issues with people, you, admittedly, are filling in peoples answers for questions you haven't even asked yet.

I have seen you be wrong at this a number of times, but it doesn't seem to help you understand that you really don't know others as well as you think you do.

 

But I will bow out now in regards to this, as it has nothing to do with the rest of the discussion.

[wez]

ok, that makes more sense, but it is still close minded. We aren't in a court of law, we are on a discussion board. And instead of actually discussing issues with people, you, admittedly, are filling in peoples answers for questions you haven't even asked yet.

I have seen you be wrong at this a number of times, but it doesn't seem to help you understand that you really don't know others as well as you think you do.

 

But I will bow out now in regards to this, as it has nothing to do with the rest of the discussion.

 

I'm not perfect eddo... And stick around, the more the merrier.

 

I'm always in the court of truth.. if I'm wrong, great, show me, I love to improve myself.

[timesjoke]

Hahahahahahaha... I'm not tainted by anyones "training", I think I have the ability to understand the truth.

 

No, you are tainted by your own ignorance of fact.

 

You refuse to take context into consideration, that is why you are always wrong.

 

How about we choose good, instead of any evil?

 

Pure good is only in dream worlds, something reasonable people can understand.

 

 

I thought oil was out of this discussion? Is that why we lie, cheat, and kill around the world? No more back and forth or your new nickname will be "waffle".

 

Is that why you feel justified to lie so much, just because you believe others are doing it?

 

 

 

Bad choice, eh?

 

As I said, a choice between two evils, most of the time, there is no good chioce, only bad and worse choices.

 

 

Never said anything of the sort.. I told you to decide, and the truth is never complex, only lies and deception.

 

And there your wrong, most of the time, the truth is very complex.

 

 

 

Apparently, we had some business in Panama to take care of first... Trying to take over the world? Hahahahahahahahaha.. That's a good one.

 

More lies I see.

[wez]

No, you are tainted by your own ignorance of fact.

 

You refuse to take context into consideration, that is why you are always wrong.

 

Show me

 

 

Pure good is only in dream worlds, something reasonable people can understand.

 

Who did you give your free will away to? Mine is not for sale.

 

 

Is that why you feel justified to lie so much, just because you believe others are doing it?

 

One lie, quote it, prove it.

 

 

As I said, a choice between two evils, most of the time, there is no good chioce, only bad and worse choices.

 

I feel sorry for you, truth is always the only choice.

 

 

And there your wrong, most of the time, the truth is very complex.

 

Yes, when it's twisted to fit a group of individual human beings agenda like a glove, then it is no longer truth.

 

 

More lies I see.

 

Prove it.

[timesjoke]

Show me

 

Already did

 

 

Who did you give your free will away to? Mine is not for sale.

 

You gave yours away for nothing to the anti American agenda.

 

 

 

 

One lie, quote it, prove it.

You said the Iraq war was because of oil, that is a lie.

 

 

 

I feel sorry for you, truth is always the only choice.

But your personal truth is a lie in reality.

 

Again, noting is 100% good or evil, it is the leader that is capable of seeing the percentages that are truly there while the complainers like you are frozen into inactivity because you will wait for that 100% factor and die while you are waiting.

 

Yes, when it's twisted to fit a group of individual human beings agenda like a glove, then it is no longer truth.

 

Wrong again, every action is complex. A women deciding to get an abortion is assailed with questions of morals, religion, community, financial issues, educational issues, relationship issues, the list goes on and on but you thing something as serious as the war in Iraq is about oil or some other single reason, that shows you to be wrong.

 

 

 

 

Prove it.

 

Already did.

[wez]

Already did

 

Saying it is not proving it, I am not a private and you are not my drill instructer.

 

 

You gave yours away for nothing to the anti American agenda.

 

You gave yours away to liars and the army.

 

Bindly following without questioning is un American. Who's unAmerican?

 

You said the Iraq war was because of oil, that is a lie.

 

You said it has nothing to with oil, it may way down the list have something to do with oil, and keep bringing up me living a life void of oil to prove something to you before you'll listen to me. Sup with that?

 

But your personal truth is a lie in reality.

 

My personal truth is the same for every person that will ever have existed in the world whether I know it or not, but I will search til death.

 

Again, noting is 100% good or evil, it is the leader that is capable of seeing the percentages that are truly there while the complainers like you are frozen into inactivity because you will wait for that 100% factor and die while you are waiting.

 

Look at my inactivity.. Hahahahahaha..

 

 

 

Wrong again, every action is complex. A women deciding to get an abortion is assailed with questions of morals, religion, community, financial issues, educational issues, relationship issues, the list goes on and on but you thing something as serious as the war in Iraq is about oil or some other single reason, that shows you to be wrong.

 

Yes, complex when weaving a web of deception.. not truth.

 

Already did.

 

Where?

[timesjoke]

Saying it is not proving it, I am not a private and you are not my drill instructer.

 

I did prove it, you just refuse to read and comprehend, that is not my fault.

 

You gave yours away to liars and the army.

 

Bindly following without questioning is un American. Who's unAmerican?

 

Again, you speak on what you do not understand.

 

I served in the military, you obviously never have. The army does not train people to be blind followers, you are so out of your element when you keep trying to discuss things so far above your head.

 

You said it has nothing to with oil, it may way down the list have something to do with oil, and keep bringing up me living a life void of oil to prove something to you before you'll listen to me. Sup with that?

 

It was you who claimes Iraq was about oil, not me.

 

I said it was about many complex issues and even provided you with a link to educate yourself, of course you already know everything you care to know and refused to read it.

 

My personal truth is the same for every person that will ever have existed in the world whether I know it or not, but I will search til death.

 

No it is not, you are wearing your "me" glasses and coloring untruths calling them truth like a little kid having a temper tantrum.

 

You misrepresent bible versus you refuse to even try to understand for example. Your intrepretation is wrong, so when you claim them to be truth for you, your truth is lie in reality.

 

 

Look at my inactivity.. Hahahahahaha..

 

Yep, it is disgusting that some Americans do nothign but try to tear things down, back seat driving without a shread of responsibility to back up their mouths and not even trying to lift a finger to fix what they complain about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, complex when weaving a web of deception.. not truth.

 

Why is it you avoid every point that proves you wrong?

 

My abortion example is a good one. Every decision is complex, it is not ever 100% one thing or another for one person and it is the same for world politics.

[wez]

I did prove it, you just refuse to read and comprehend, that is not my fault.

 

No offense, but you'd make a crappy lawyer.. How about you post it again for me?

 

Again, you speak on what you do not understand.

 

I served in the military, you obviously never have. The army does not train people to be blind followers, you are so out of your element when you keep trying to discuss things so far above your head.

 

One of the armies first main objective is to strip an individuals identity and teach them how to be a cold blooded killer, void of emotion so they may perform on the field of battle and follow orders. The army is all about orders. Unquestioned orders. No thanks, I cherish my free will and don't believe in killing people.

 

It was you who claimes Iraq was about oil, not me.

 

I said you convinced me I was wrong and said we should leave oil out of it.

 

I said it was about many complex issues and even provided you with a link to educate yourself, of course you already know everything you care to know and refused to read it.

 

I could provide you with links refuting every link you provided me. I have a brain and assume you do too.

 

No it is not, you are wearing your "me" glasses and coloring untruths calling them truth like a little kid having a temper tantrum.

Hahahahaha... Has the U.S ever done anything wrong in your rose colored, tantrum throwing eyes? Hahahahahaha

 

You misrepresent bible versus you refuse to even try to understand for example. Your intrepretation is wrong, so when you claim them to be truth for you, your truth is lie in reality.

 

Prove it.

 

 

Yep, it is disgusting that some Americans do nothign but try to tear things down, back seat driving without a shread of responsibility to back up their mouths and not even trying to lift a finger to fix what they complain about.

 

I never said that and request you remove the attempt to once again put words in my mouth.

 

What are you doing about the "gay issue" in Iran and Saudi Arabia?

 

 

Why is it you avoid every point that proves you wrong?

 

Saying it, and proving it are 2 seperate things. This isn't the army.

 

My abortion example is a good one. Every decision is complex, it is not ever 100% one thing or another for one person and it is the same for world politics.

 

Never said it was, but the truth is the truth is the truth...

 

Do politicians lie? You can accept it.. I don't have to. I have my free will intact.

[timesjoke]

No offense, but you'd make a crappy lawyer.. How about you post it again for me?

 

As I told another member, I do not feed lazy people's sicknesses, if you could not bother to read everything as we go, I will not keep repeating myself.

 

Learn to pay attention.

 

One of the armies first main objective is to strip an individuals identity and teach them how to be a cold blooded killer, void of emotion so they may perform on the field of battle and follow orders. The army is all about orders. Unquestioned orders. No thanks, I cherish my free will and don't believe in killing people.

 

Where do you get this garbage?

 

You are so wrong it is almost criminal in my mind.

 

I served in the military, you have obviously never done so yourself.

 

 

I said you convinced me I was wrong and said we should leave oil out of it.

 

You wrong about most of what you say.

 

 

I could provide you with links refuting every link you provided me. I have a brain and assume you do too.

 

The differance is mine is the words of the President, while yours is from wackos that have nothing to lose. It is like the 9/11 conspiracy wackos, the only people claiming it was an inside job are people with nothign to lose, see the trend forming?

 

Hahahahaha... Has the U.S ever done anything wrong in your rose colored, tantrum throwing eyes? Hahahahahaha

 

Many times, but I understand that nothing is 100% good or evil so I temper my opinions with reality while you call everything not 100% good as all evil and bash America for everything.

 

 

Prove it.

 

Again, I already did.

 

 

I never said that and request you remove the attempt to once again put words in my mouth.

 

What are you doing about the "gay issue" in Iran and Saudi Arabia?

 

According to you, there is no gay issue in Iran, so being as you attack everything America does while you sit behind your safe computer tossing insults, maybe you need to get off your behind and do instead of just pointing fingers.

 

 

 

Saying it, and proving it are 2 seperate things. This isn't the army.

 

I say the same to you, you make outlandish claims about things you know nothing about like religion and military training and when those of us that do know about these things call you out for your lies, you bury your head in the sand from the truth and continue with the lies.

 

 

Never said it was, but the truth is the truth is the truth...

 

Do politicians lie? You can accept it.. I don't have to. I have my free will intact.

 

Just like you lie, several times in this thread alone, why get mad at them for doing whar your doing every few seconds?

 

 

Yes, politicians lie, but what does that have to do with anything?

 

Name one perfect person.

 

If not, learn to see how percentages of priority govern most decisions.

[wez]

As I told another member, I do not feed lazy people's sicknesses, if you could not bother to read everything as we go, I will not keep repeating myself.

 

I do, and have. What you claim I said, is not what I said. It belongs to you, not me.

 

Learn to pay attention.

 

Learn to make sense.

 

 

 

Where do you get this garbage?

 

You are so wrong it is almost criminal in my mind.

 

I served in the military, you have obviously never done so yourself.

 

Why don't you put it in pretty words for me like honor, disipline, and pride.

 

What was boot camp like? Why the shaved heads and screaming in the face? Why the guns? What do they want to do that for?

 

Almost criminal? The truth? How nazi german, pinko commie, un American of you... Guess I would be thrown in the brig/gulag/hung for saying it to my "superior".. Hahahahahahaha

 

Criminal... keep repeating it, it'll become reality.

 

It was men just like you that saw Jesus to His death...

 

You wrong about most of what you say.

 

I guess I'd have to be or else your beliefs would crumble at your feet.

 

 

The differance is mine is the words of the President, while yours is from wackos that have nothing to lose. It is like the 9/11 conspiracy wackos, the only people claiming it was an inside job are people with nothign to lose, see the trend forming?

 

Now I guess this will be credited to me too... If you don't want want me to paint an innaccurate pic of you and prove it by merely repeating it over and over and over, think before you speak.

 

 

 

Many times, but I understand that nothing is 100% good or evil so I temper my opinions with reality while you call everything not 100% good as all evil and bash America for everything.

 

Let's talk about those things...

 

 

 

 

Again, I already did.

 

Repeating something over and over is not proving it. You are not in the army anymore, and I never was or will be.

 

 

 

According to you, there is no gay issue in Iran, so being as you attack everything America does while you sit behind your safe computer tossing insults, maybe you need to get off your behind and do instead of just pointing fingers.

 

Hahahahahaha... Hypocrites are funny... Go free the gays, you brought up. I believe gays are mistreated in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and America.. You brought it up, do something about it. Hahahahahaha.. Good God man. I'm not prone to confusion

 

 

I say the same to you, you make outlandish claims about things you know nothing about like religion and military training and when those of us that do know about these things call you out for your lies, you bury your head in the sand from the truth and continue with the lies.

 

Hahahahahahahaha.. Still waiting for that one cut and pasted lie. Unreal.

 

 

Just like you lie, several times in this thread alone, why get mad at them for doing whar your doing every few seconds?

 

Post it/them rather than keep saying you already did from the first time I told you to prove it after your first accusation of lying. Won't work with me.. Sorry.

 

 

Yes, politicians lie, but what does that have to do with anything?

 

I don't follow liars or accept their lies.

 

Name one perfect person.

 

Everyone who has a free will that haven't it given away has the opportunity to be perfect and Jesus.

 

If not, learn to see how percentages of priority govern most decisions.

 

Hopefully you and your family wont ever be on the losing end of those statistics, eh?

[wez]

Seriously TJ, I'm not going to continue to go in circles with you to convince you that there is never a good cause to kill people. The world is only made up of individual human beings. Iraq is not capable of killing anyone, it's not a living being. Iran does not kill gays, it is not within it's power. Individual human beings, that's it. Remember Matthew Shepard? Does America kill homosexuals?

 

Just remember, the life which you value least, is the value you put on your life, and everyone elses. It can be no other way.

 

Love ya bro... It was fun.

[timesjoke]

Seriously TJ, I'm not going to continue to go in circles with you to convince you that there is never a good cause to kill people. The world is only made up of individual human beings. Iraq is not capable of killing anyone, it's not a living being.

 

So who invaded Kuait or gassed the kurds, etc....?

 

So you would not kill killers? You would not kill someone trying to kill you or a loved one you would just watch yourself die without lifting a finger?

 

 

Iran does not kill gays, it is not within it's power. Individual human beings, that's it. Remember Matthew Shepard? Does America kill homosexuals?

 

Countries set policy, by policy of the Iran government it is legal to kill homosexuals and many other people like women get stoned to death for many offenses including failure to wear the proper clothing.

 

The government is condoning the actions.

 

 

Just remember, the life which you value least, is the value you put on your life, and everyone elses. It can be no other way.

 

Love ya bro... It was fun.

 

so saving an innocent life has no value to people like you?

 

I value the innocent life over the guilty life and given a choice of protecting the innocent by killing the guilty or letting the guilty kill the innocent, I will follow the first course in my life.

 

 

Again, you are making decisions about things with bad information. Your assumptions and completely wrong ideas are making you produce bad decisions.

 

It is just like your comment that all soldiers are brainwashed killers. Your 100% wrong and refuse to admit it so that means every decision you make with that kind of false information in your head must be wrong itself.

 

I love all people but I fear for the survival of our Country and way of life with people like you spouting lies as if their truth everywhere you go.

[wez]

So who invaded Kuait or gassed the kurds, etc....?

 

Individual human beings following orders.

 

So you would not kill killers? You would not kill someone trying to kill you or a loved one you would just watch yourself die without lifting a finger?

 

That would make me just like them, a killer. Every individual under the sun is my loved one. I lift my voice.

 

 

 

Countries set policy, by policy of the Iran government it is legal to kill homosexuals and many other people like women get stoned to death for many offenses including failure to wear the proper clothing.

 

The government is condoning the actions.

 

 

My government allows people to die in the streets like dogs with no where to call home but an overpass because they are mentally ill and have no money or the proper clothing. They are condoning the actions.

 

 

 

so saving an innocent life has no value to people like you?

 

Yes, it does, that is why I speak against persons such as yourself who kill innocent people in the name of (insert any reason here you choose as it makes no difference.).

 

 

I value the innocent life over the guilty life and given a choice of protecting the innocent by killing the guilty or letting the guilty kill the innocent, I will follow the first course in my life.

 

 

In doing so in the manner you do it, you also kill the innocent, becoming that which you hate and deserving of death by your own hand according to your beliefs. What exactly does "Collateral damage" mean? You are not God and not capable of judging the guilty, or anyone but yourself. If you were, you would see that you're wrong.

 

Again, you are making decisions about things with bad information. Your assumptions and completely wrong ideas are making you produce bad decisions.

 

I will never intentionally kill another human being, you would/have/will. If that's a bad decision, I don't want to be right.

 

 

 

It is just like your comment that all soldiers are brainwashed killers. Your 100% wrong and refuse to admit it so that means every decision you make with that kind of false information in your head must be wrong itself.

 

Never said that, some soldiers say, "no", and "why" and go to the brig for doing the right thing. What does the army train people to do first and foremost and how do they accomplish that?

 

 

I love all people but I fear for the survival of our Country and way of life with people like you spouting lies as if their truth everywhere you go.

 

I love all people and don't fear any man. I do like how you slipped in "way of life" as that is what you will lose regardless of how many people you kill. Our "way of life" will destroy us, itself.

 

 

Here's how wrong you are....

 

 

If every human thought as I do, no man/woman/child would ever die at the hands of another.

 

If everyone thought like you.........

 

 

Your fear is misplaced. Check the mirror...

[timesjoke]

Individual human beings following orders.

 

Orders issued by the government, not from thin air, so it is the actions of the Country, not one soldier acting on his own.

 

 

That would make me just like them, a killer. Every individual under the sun is my loved one. I lift my voice.

 

As with anything, it is intent that makes the difference, if you kill to protect the life of a child, your actions are good, if you kill for the pleasure of killing or other bad reasons, your actions are bad.

 

 

If you refuse to kill a killer to protect the life of a child, then you are helping the killer, that makes you a killer by proxy.

 

 

 

My government allows people to die in the streets like dogs with no where to call home but an overpass because they are mentally ill and have no money or the proper clothing. They are condoning the actions.

 

How can one person be so wrong on almost everything about America as you are?

 

The latest studies show that most of the homeless have families but choose to live as homeless, how are we to force people into prisons just because we don't want them on the street?

 

 

Yes, it does, that is why I speak against persons such as yourself who kill innocent people in the name of (insert any reason here you choose as it makes no difference.).

 

I would be too if we ever did anything of the sort, being as we only help people and not just go around murdering people to take over their land as Iraq has done, we are the good stopping the bad.

 

 

 

 

In doing so in the manner you do it, you also kill the innocent, becoming that which you hate and deserving of death by your own hand according to your beliefs. What exactly does "Collateral damage" mean? You are not God and not capable of judging the guilty, or anyone but yourself. If you were, you would see that you're wrong.

 

I am capable of judging the guilty, if your frozen in life to be a victim, fine, I say you have that right, but you don;t have the right to excpet me to stand there like sheep and let bad people kill me or my family, or others in my comminity.

 

 

I will never intentionally kill another human being, you would/have/will. If that's a bad decision, I don't want to be right.

 

And you won't be right.

 

 

 

 

Never said that, some soldiers say, "no", and "why" and go to the brig for doing the right thing. What does the army train people to do first and foremost and how do they accomplish that?

 

Yes you did say that all soldiers are mindless killers, you are just backpeddling now.

 

All soldiers have free will and never kill blindly. American troops are trained to think above all and to never follow an illegel order. If a soldier follows an illegel order (such as killing in cold blood) he will be severely punnished up to death.

 

You are wrong time and again, your assumptions are all 100% wrong, so that means your conclusions based on your assumptions are also 100% wrong.

 

 

I love all people and don't fear any man. I do like how you slipped in "way of life" as that is what you will lose regardless of how many people you kill. Our "way of life" will destroy us, itself.

 

Being as it was fighting evil that made America possible, it was fighters, not weak pacifists afraid to act who made America possible, you are again wrong, time and time again.

 

Here's how wrong you are....

 

 

If every human thought as I do, no man/woman/child would ever die at the hands of another.

 

Dream world......

 

 

Just how do you make the bad people in the world think the way you do?

 

It is easy to get agreement from fellow pacifists but the real world has very bad people in it. Do you offer your naked throat to the killer when he comes?

 

Do you have your children or loved ones do the same?

 

 

If everyone thought like you.........

 

 

Your fear is misplaced. Check the mirror...

 

I see in my mirror what made this Country great. A hard working person who supports himself and has served the Country he loves while my oldest child is doing the same.

 

 

You see in your mirror someone too scared to serve his Country, too scared to do more then talk, too scared to truly live and can only complain about those that give him the chance to life free.

 

Yes, I know to fear people like you.

[wez]

Orders issued by the government, not from thin air, so it is the actions of the Country, not one soldier acting on his own.

 

Who invaded Iraq? Panama? Vietnam? Ruby Ridge? Wako? Grenada? This land we now call the U.S.A.

 

 

 

 

As with anything, it is intent that makes the difference, if you kill to protect the life of a child, your actions are good, if you kill for the pleasure of killing or other bad reasons, your actions are bad.

 

 

If you refuse to kill a killer to protect the life of a child, then you are helping the killer, that makes you a killer by proxy.

 

Why does it seem all the bad people we kill are sitting on resources we desire while genocide in Africa continues?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How can one person be so wrong on almost everything about America as you are?

 

The latest studies show that most of the homeless have families but choose to live as homeless, how are we to force people into prisons just because we don't want them on the street?

 

Did black people choose to be slaves and live as second class citizens still to this day for the most part?

 

 

 

 

I would be too if we ever did anything of the sort, being as we only help people and not just go around murdering people to take over their land as Iraq has done, we are the good stopping the bad.

 

Why did you kill Pat Tillman and Jesus?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am capable of judging the guilty, if your frozen in life to be a victim, fine, I say you have that right, but you don;t have the right to excpet me to stand there like sheep and let bad people kill me or my family, or others in my comminity.

 

 

You are frozen in life to that which you fear. I'm not afraid to die.

 

 

 

 

And you won't be right.

 

 

Nor will I be a killer, like you who condone it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you did say that all soldiers are mindless killers, you are just backpeddling now.

 

No, I said the army trains soldiers to follow orders and be cold blooded killers so they may perform on the field of battle.

 

All soldiers have free will and never kill blindly. American troops are trained to think above all and to never follow an illegel order. If a soldier follows an illegel order (such as killing in cold blood) he will be severely punnished up to death.

 

 

Who was arrested for killing Pat Tillman and the thousands of innocent children in Iraq since we invaded their country?

 

You are wrong time and again, your assumptions are all 100% wrong, so that means your conclusions based on your assumptions are also 100% wrong.

 

Why don't you tell me about boot camp.

 

 

 

 

Being as it was fighting evil that made America possible, it was fighters, not weak pacifists afraid to act who made America possible, you are again wrong, time and time again.

 

You mean foreign, invading, fighters murdering Native Americans made America possible?

 

 

 

Dream world...... is right.

 

 

Just how do you make the bad people in the world think the way you do?

 

Teach them from birth. Love rather than hate. Forgivness, rather than vengence.

 

It is easy to get agreement from fellow pacifists but the real world has very bad people in it. Do you offer your naked throat to the killer when he comes?

 

Why would anyone want to kill me, or anyone else? I don't live in fear.

 

 

 

I see in my mirror what made this Country great. A hard working person who supports himself and has served the Country he loves while my oldest child is doing the same.

 

I love truth and would never serve my child up to death.

 

 

You see in your mirror someone too scared to serve his Country, too scared to do more then talk, too scared to truly live and can only complain about those that give him the chance to life free.

 

 

Hahahahahaha.... I serve the truth, not evil men. How did Europeans come to inhabit this country, big tough guy?

 

Yes, I know to fear people like you.

 

 

Then you are truly a moron.

 

Bet you know how to keep your women in line too.. eh, tough guy?

[wez]

Hey tough guy... Boo!! Hahahahaha..

 

Dude, I think it's gone far enough. I don't need you fearing me, then hating me, then thinking you need to kill me for the good of the world... you think whatever you want.. This is America.. Come say whatever you want, I'm done. I've said more than enough. Peace bro... No hard feelings.

[hugo]

Excerpts from

A Republic, Not an Empire

by Patrick J. Buchanan

March 25, 2000

 

What is best for America and the world, they tell us, is that the United States should remain a superpower sheriff, the Wyatt Earp of the West, possessed of the sole right to deputize posses, or go it alone if necessary, to discipline evil-doers, wherever our "values" are threatened. I submit that this foreign policy poses a great and growing danger to the peace and security of the United States.

 

 

Meanwhile, a decade after the Gulf War, American soldiers and airmen stand ready to die to defend Saudi Arabia and Kuwait from Iran and Iraq - as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait conspire with Iran and Iraq to keep oil prices over $30 a barrel -- to loot America and gouge U.S. consumers.

 

For ten years, the U.S. has played the dominant role in maintaining rigid sanctions on Iraq. By one UN estimate, these sanctions have resulted in the premature deaths of 500,000 children. Will the parents of those children ever forgive us? Even our European Allies recoil. By keeping these sanctions fastened on Iraq, we flout every tenet of Christianity's Just War doctrine, and build up deposits of hatred across the Arab world that will take decades to draw down. One day our children shall pay the price of our callous indifference to what is happening to the children of Iraq.

 

I speak as a proud Cold Warrior who supported every great anti-Communist initiative from JFK to Reagan. And I support a U.S. defense that is second to none and a foreign policy whereby America responds resolutely to any attack on American citizens, honor, or vital interests.

 

But what purpose is served by our shortening the lives of Iraqi people who have done us no harm? If Desert Storm could not remove Saddam Hussein, how are the women, children and elderly of Iraq, the victims of our sanctions, supposed to overthrow him?

 

 

We are in an election season, and the two major parties have made their predictable selections. Their debate over foreign policy -- it is no news to anyone sitting here - was devoid of any fresh thinking. Both parties are frozen in the mindset of a Cold War that ended ten years ago.

 

During one debate, John McCain singled out Iraq, Libya and North Korea as "rogue states" and advocated the armed overthrow of all three by U.S.-trained and equipped armies. Pressed on what he would do if his armies were being annihilated, the Senator did not respond. But he did not reject the notion that Iran, a nation of 70 million, should also be designated a rogue state to be targeted for overthrow.

 

Friends, this is hubris; this is triumphalism; this is the arrogance of power; this is America's Brezhnev doctrine. I single McCain out not because he in particular is misguided, but because such ideas are commonplace among the global gamesmen in Washington.

 

Governor Bush cried out in anguish when he was compared by Senator McCain to Bill Clinton, but he did not utter a skeptical word about McCain's plans for rogue regimes. Indeed, the Governor has exhibited neither absorbing interest nor extraordinary aptitude for foreign policy -- to put it generously. His call last year for the war on Serbia to be waged "more ferociously" was his one memorable foreign policy utterance. But in the cluster of foreign policy aides, the self-styled "Vulcans," now home-schooling the Governor, notions of "rogue state rollback" are music to the ear.

 

Among the more prominent of the Vulcans is Paul Wolfowitz. A Pentagon aide to Bush the Elder, Wolfowitz produced in 1992 a blueprint for war against Russia that would utilize six carrier battle groups and 24 NATO divisions to rescue Lithuania, should Moscow recolonize that tiny republic.

 

Richard Perle, another of the "On-to-Baghdad" brigade, is perhaps Washington's premier enthusiast of using U.S. power to topple rogue regimes. Another tutor to Governor Bush is his father's former National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft. A few months ago, General Scowcroft advocated putting a division of U.S. troops on the Golan Heights, to police peace between Syria and Israel, thereby insuring there would be dead Americans in any future Syrian-Israeli clash.

 

Not one of the "Vulcans" embraces the new thinking on foreign policy that has taken root in Congress and the country in the aftermath of the Cold War. This new thinking alarms both Clintonites who call it "isolationist," but even more the neo-conservatives who believe America should convert her hour of power into a "benevolent global hegemony."

 

Indeed, during Clinton's war on Serbia, one neoconservative strategist was so disheartened by the lack of war spirit among the Republican rank-and file, he mused about giving up and leaving the GOP altogether.

 

But while many Democrats and some on the Left are eager to challenge the Bush-Clinton New World Order, Vice President Gore is not among them. Mr. Gore is a Wilsonian in full. He exhibits a New Republic-style lust for cruise missile strikes on "rogue nations." He was all for the war on Serbia. Nor did he allow a ray of daylight to open up between himself and Mr. Clinton on sanctions against Iraq or the strikes against that poison gas factory in Sudan, that turned out to be a pharmaceutical plant.

 

Mr. Gore is also an acolyte of the New World Order, ever ready to cede American sovereignty, and an architect of Clinton's Kyoto Treaty, under which global bureaucrats would dictate America's use of fossil fuels. When young Americans perished in a tragic accident over Iraq, Gore reflexively offered his condolences to the families of those who, quote, "had died in the service of the United Nations."

 

Quo Vadis? Where are you going, America

 

Because of our sanctions on scores of nations, cruise missile strikes upon others, and intervention in the internal affairs of still others in the wake of the Cold War, a seething resentment of America is brewing all over the world. And the haughty attitude of our foreign policy elite only nurses the hatred. Hearken, if you will, to the voice of our own Xenia, Madeline Albright, announcing new air strikes on Iraq: "If we have to use force, it is because we are America. We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see farther into the future."

 

Now I count myself an American patriot. But if this Beltway braggadocio about being the world's "indispensable nation" has begun to grate on me, how must it grate upon the Europeans, Russians, and peoples subject to our sanctions because they have failed, by our lights, to live up to our standards?

 

And how can all our meddling not fail to spark some horrible retribution? Recall: it was in retaliation for the bombing of Libya that Khadafi's agents blew up Pan Am 103. And it is said to have been in retaliation for the Vincennes' accidental shoot-down of that Iranian airliner that Teheran collaborated with terrorists to blow up the Khobar towers. From Pan Am 103, to the World Trade Center, to the embassy bombings in Nairobi and Dar - have we not suffered enough not to know that interventionism is the incubator of terrorism? Or will it take some cataclysmic atrocity on U.S. soil to awaken our global gamesmen to the asking price of empire?

 

America today faces a choice of destinies. We can be the peacemaker of the world - or its policeman who goes about night-sticking troublemakers until we, too, find ourselves in some bloody brawl we cannot handle. Let us use this transitory moment of American power and preeminence to encourage and assist old friends and allies to stand on their own feet and provide and pay for their own defense.

 

Let me state my present intent: If elected, I will have all U.S. troops out of the Balkan quagmire by year's end, and all American troops home from Europe by the end of my first term. Forty years ago, President Eisenhower pleaded with JFK to bring all U.S. troops home from Europe. Certainly, sixty years after the end of World War II, and fifteen years after the Berlin Wall fell, is not too soon to get all U.S. troops out of Europe and let Europeans provide and pay the cost of their own defense. If not now, when?

 

And let us quickly adopt a measure of humility about how much we know about what is best for other peoples and cultures. In the words of the great scholar Russell Kirk: "There exists no single best form of government for the happiness of all mankind. The most suitable form of government depends on the historic experience, the customs, the beliefs, the state of culture...and all these things vary from land to land and age to age."

 

We are entering a fertile and exciting time in our politics. Our ossified two-party system, that has managed to stifle serious foreign policy debate for a decade, is cracking up. Pressure is growing from dissidents within, and this year, there will be a mighty challenge from without. As Joe Namath said, I guarantee it.

 

Our Reform Party will be on the ballot in 50 states, and, if I have anything to say about it -- and I expect to -- it will become a non-interventionist party, a peace party, that will reach out to Americans of Right and Left who reject the Third Way imperialism being forced upon us by the elites of both Beltway parties.

 

In this new era, many of us are rediscovering the old distrust of crusading that was at the center of the world view of the old American Right. We are conscious of our love for this country. We do not wish to isolate America from the world, only to isolate America from wars -- the religious, ethnic, and territorial wars of less fortunate lands. We know there is a powerful body of American thought -- from Washington to John Quincy Adams to William Jennings Bryan and Robert Taft -- as well as all the near forgotten figures written about by Justin Raimondo and others -- to help guide us. And their message is one I intend to stamp upon our banners in the campaign of 2000: A Republic, Not an Empire! America First!

[wez]

Awsome post, teach, very well articulated by Pat.. Looks like "we" voted for the wrong guy in 2000... "We" get what we deserve for electing a chickenhawk..

 

You know, I wonder if GB would sacrifice himself for the good of the country.. I bet turning him over as a war criminal to the Arab world, and saying "we're sorry", would calm a lot of waters. Would he take one for the team to save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives? Yeah, right...

[hugo]

There is nothing conservative about neoconservatism. It is simply Wilsonianism at the point of a gun. True conservatives, from Washington to Ike, warned us of entangling alliances (Israel) and meddling in foreign affairs. The price of interventionism is high. Sept 11 was just a small downpayment..

[wez]

There is nothing conservative about neoconservatism. It is simply Wilsonianism at the point of a gun. True conservatives, from Washington to Ike, warned us of entangling alliances (Israel) and meddling in foreign affairs. The price of interventionism is high. Sept 11 was just a small downpayment..

 

I contend 9/11 would never have most likely happened had we elected ANYONE but GB... They didn't care much for GB1 and I think he was avenging daddy more than anything.. You know, Saddam did threaten to kill him 10 years before.. God help us.

[wez]

Truly.. does anyone like a stinkin' bully? Flexing their muscles in your face? I suppose any of you tough guys would...

 

(might + fear = right + respect) = (2+2=5)