Christianity. Blasphemy. Brainwashing.

[wez]

But the fact is that the after death is unknown. And man is not content with the unknowing. So we fill the gaps. We pacify our minds with an answer that most of us can correlate with. In my mind I can’t fathom life being a fluke thing. It had to created by a higher power not understandable to the mortal man.

 

Things do seem too perfect to be a fluke accident, but that's just it, mortal men a thousand religions over claim to understand exactly what "God" wants them to force everyone but themselves to do. If people were ok understanding it as far as it was meant to be understood and stopped trying to own the truth and use it as a tool to contol people, we'd be a lot better off. There is only one true religion.. the actual truth. I don't need to know it any farther than humanly possible to understand.. it is what it is in life and death. Knowing it's the same for every individual no matter what I or they say is what I think is important. To claim to know post death through eternity and kill people to prove it is about insane as insane gets..

 

 

Perhaps death will be just like before you born, nothingness... Nirvana.

 

Perhaps you get a number a virgins for killing infidels.. Women must not be included in this afterlife paradise.. cept for the virgins.. Poor them

 

Perhaps there's a Heaven and Hell for those who know Jesus.. Poor Amazon tribes cut off from civilization are doomed..

 

Perhaps all the wicked will suffer for all eternity in flames, satisfying our thirst for revenge..

 

Perhaps it will be what it's meant to be, and me not knowing is ok as long as I understand and know with 100% certainty that it will be the same for every human that ever will have existed no matter what it is, and act accordingly.

[timesjoke]

You have good points Wez.

 

That is why I always make the point that God made man, man made the many religions. Man has never made anything that is perfect so obviously any religion man makes is doomed to have mistakes.

 

But, man's mistakes are not God's mistakes. God has given us basic concepts to live by and even if someone does not like the idea of God, his principles of how to live are still sound from a purely good society basis.

 

 

The world is too perfect for it all to be one long series of beneficial accidents after another. Everything must start somewhere and if we keep peeling back layers we discover that science cannot explain the most important things about life. like how living creatures completely changed their DNA to turn into different species when all science says it is impossible for that to happen.

 

Just the human reproductive system is more complex than every creation man has ever made put together. Add to that the thousands of other complex systems in our bodies and the thousands in each other lifeform and we start to see a level of improbability forming impossible to ignore.

 

There just is not that much good luck in this world.

 

 

Fact, all life comes from other life. There is not one living thing that comes from nothing.

[wez]

You have good points Wez.

 

That is why I always make the point that God made man, man made the many religions. Man has never made anything that is perfect so obviously any religion man makes is doomed to have mistakes.

 

But, man's mistakes are not God's mistakes. God has given us basic concepts to live by and even if someone does not like the idea of God, his principles of how to live are still sound from a purely good society basis.

 

 

The world is too perfect for it all to be one long series of beneficial accidents after another. Everything must start somewhere and if we keep peeling back layers we discover that science cannot explain the most important things about life. like how living creatures completely changed their DNA to turn into different species when all science says it is impossible for that to happen.

 

Just the human reproductive system is more complex than every creation man has ever made put together. Add to that the thousands of other complex systems in our bodies and the thousands in each other lifeform and we start to see a level of improbability forming impossible to ignore.

 

There just is not that much good luck in this world.

 

Fact, all life comes from other life. There is not one living thing that comes from nothing.

 

 

Indeed... the cardiovascular system is too perfect.. The way individual cells in our body function together is beyond comprehension. How they form tissues, and organs to make up a human organism.. quite beautiful and too perfect..

 

And you also hit on the critical point of knowing/not knowing.. The very first "life".. the beginning. If life always comes from life, as we understand that to be true, and has been proven, therein lies the big mystery.. the "creation". It happened, that's all I need to know..

[snafu]

Indeed... the cardiovascular system is too perfect.. The way individual cells in our body function together is beyond comprehension. How they form tissues, and organs to make up a human organism.. quite beautiful and too perfect..

 

And you also hit on the critical point of knowing/not knowing.. The very first "life".. the beginning. If life always comes from life, as we understand that to be true, and has been proven, therein lies the big mystery.. the "creation". It happened, that's all I need to know..

 

That's so profound! That's what I was getting at. And what about reincarnation? Can our existance be containded to only one life or body? I mean if we come from nowhere why can't that be from another life?

[eddo]

 

Perhaps there's a Heaven and Hell for those who know Jesus.. Poor Amazon tribes cut off from civilization are doomed..

 

Actually the Bible addresses this in Romans 1:18-20:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities?his eternal power and divine nature?have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

 

and then this is backed up by your very astute observation:

 

Indeed... the cardiovascular system is too perfect.. The way individual cells in our body function together is beyond comprehension. How they form tissues, and organs to make up a human organism.. quite beautiful and too perfect..

 

No those Amazon people don't know about Jesus (and thus cannot accept or reject Him,) but as I understand it they will be judged according to what they do know, and how they use what they know. They can look around them and acknowledge God's creation or they can ignore His place in their lives just like the rest of us can.

[wez]

Actually the Bible addresses this in Romans 1:18-20:

 

 

and then this is backed up by your very astute observation:

 

 

 

No those Amazon people don't know about Jesus (and thus cannot accept or reject Him,) but as I understand it they will be judged according to what they do know, and how they use what they know. They can look around them and acknowledge God's creation or they can ignore His place in their lives just like the rest of us can.

 

Truth is simple and plain for everyone to see.. so why all the hostilities over the course of humankind in the name of creation by the very people who claim to know and understand the "absolute truth" Why the need to gather in mass and exert force physically, politically, and manipulatively to further the truth?

 

Perhaps that's what happens when it aint truth and people need other people to validate it whether they want to or not so they can lie to themselves in comfort and believe they're better than someone else in a profound way and be ok with them being killed, suppressed, enslaved, tortured, controlled, etc... People know the truth when they hear it cause it applies to every human that will ever have existed. Truth doesn't have anything to do with fear, money, and property, but non truth does.

 

Perhaps the truth gets in the way of some peoples agenda/not truth and they'd rather people just shut up and disappear, as if that would make them right and what they claim true. Not to mention it's the exact opposite of what Jesus teaches.. Love your enemy has become kill your enemy? Who's the real enemy? Oneself...

 

 

 

eddo ( remember my 1st day at tat?) Hahahaha.. love that term..

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

It still surprises me how blinded some Athiest followers are to their own bull.

 

Well if that isn't the kettle calling the pot black I don't know what is. Theists not only believe bull, they made it all up in the first place ! The truth is that atheists are rational and scientific. Whereas theists are irrational romantics.

 

Let me give you two examples to help you understand the concept of showing a false face to the world:

This has nothing to do with it, and you know it. Your smoke and mirrors just show you see your argument is flawed.

 

1/ you are wrong, theists killed more people than atheists ever did, since mankind emerged.

2/ You are almost certainly wrong, neither your god or any other sky-faerie probably exists.

 

 

1 sheik joins the march of dimes and has fundraisers for their cause. After a year, he steals millions of dollars and runs off to a remote island to live in the lap of luxery.

 

In this example, does sheik represent the march of dimes true mission in life or did sheik take advantage of the march of dimes to serve his own desires?

 

 

2 Jhony goes out with friends and after many drinks and burnt taters, he hooks up with a pretty girl and spends a drunk, stoned wild night with her. The next morning he wakes up to find out that the pretty girl turns out to be a pretty boy.

 

In this example, did jhony have straight sex because he "thought" the other person was a women or did he have gay sex because the reality is she was a he?

 

Smoke and mirrors, what on earth has this to do with the discussion ?

 

Hitler was an Athiest in reality. He used religion to his own ends at the beginning of his grip on power but his true self was very clear as his actions and frank discussions showed later.

 

Nonsense. Hitler was a lifelong Christian. He never officially left this cult.

 

Similarly, The Queen remains the monarch until she dies, orpublicly and officially renounces her position, or abdicates. The president remains the President, until he dies,or publicly and officially renounces his position, or his term expires. And a theist remains one until he dies, or publicly and officially renounces his position, hence becoming, like the others, an apostate. There is no real escape without renunciation

 

The idea Hitler was a Christian just because he was baptised is completely stupid and juvinile.

 

Everyone can now see who it is that is calling others stupid. It is you, and not johny5 or myself.

 

Is that to say all people can never change if they are baptised?

 

Again you try to put words into my mouth. I did not say that. I said if Hitler ever wanted to be an ex-christian he need to leave the church. Not remain in it. To leave, he needed to renounce his faith publicly and officially. He wold then have become an apostate, and an ex-christian from that moment.

 

Hitler did not need anyone else to give him permission to believe whatever he wanted to believe just like everyone on this forum.

 

More twaddle, everybody knows that.

 

To say Hitler was a Christian after the murders and was openly supporting evolution beliefs is the hight of stupidity

 

It does not surprise me that Hitler supported both these ideas at the same time at all. Look at the rest of the rubbish theists believe simultaneously.. Like blokes who walk on water, and a couple of buns feeding 5000 people, and people with wings flying around playing harps in heaven. The head guy curing disorders that thousands of years later science cannot find a cure for.And funniest of all, the guy gets up and flies into heaven after having died.

 

and clearly based in the Athiests wanting to distance themselves from the truth of how violent and intolerant Athiest followers truly are.

 

More twaddle. History shows your group to be intolerant violent, torturing murderers, more so than Atheists.

 

Name an Atheist group that comes anywhere near doing what you claim here.

 

By the way, nice try with the excuse making but the real reason there are no non-religious people helping others around the world is because they don't want to.

 

My money is on the fact they are there, they just dont crow about it like you and your group do. I'm not sure about this, but I dont think the British Red Cross have any official religious allegiance. There will be many other non religious relief agencies I would think. There are certainly overseas aid programs which send Westerners abroad to help with language, hygiene and building programs. these are certainly non religious.

 

Look in any town and who is it running the soup kitchens?

 

And who are running the banks, bars, hotels and malls ? Business people wanting to take advantage of those who may be useful in some way. Usually it is money making in the short term. But it could also be money making in the long term. Like getting those poor people grateful, then guilty, then wanting to pay back some how, then hooked into servitude, then praying and tossing money into the collection bowl later when they get a job. It's a business, nothing more.

 

 

There are more help programs run by churches than the government, maybe that should tell you something.

 

Yes, that your business is successful, and also that there are many impressionable people out there.

 

Morals are dropping all over the world and so is religious believers, that is not chance.

 

An opinion. The two may not be connected at all. Just another self serving argument of yours.

 

The fall of Rome happened right after they attempted to change their faith.

 

Another coincidence probably.

 

By the way, do any of you know how the job of page in modern government got it's name? In late Roman times after their decline to very immoral behavoir was clear, it was a status symbol for politicians to have a young boy lover. That boy lover was called a "page".

 

Yes a very disgusting perversion still popular with Catholic priests today. These vile turds should be crucufied.

[snafu]

Yes a very disgusting perversion still popular with Catholic priests today. These vile turds should be crucufied.

 

Not to be rude but has anybody shown you how to use the quote option? Sure makes it easier on the reader.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

and, you don't have to go back and make 150 edits after the post... of course, if you did some proof-reading before you post... nm... I'm sure you'll figure it out.

[snafu]

http://Off Topic Forum.com/showpost.php?p=1041&postcount=18

[timesjoke]

So sheik, you believe that anyone raised in a religious family must believe everything their family believed?

 

 

You were raised an Athiest and that is why you believe what you do?

 

If I steal a cop uniform and put it on does that make me a cop in reality?

 

 

You my friend are playing stupid, you know damn well that Hitler was an Athiest, I even posted his own words saying religion needed to be removed and he believed in evolution but you run around with your hands over your ears so you don't have to acknoledge the truth.

 

 

 

Just because Hitler was raised under a certain belief structure, that does not mean he believed in what his family believed, If you are too stulid to undersatand that we each have our own beliefs reguardless of what our parents believe, I cannot help you but it does explain how you can be an Athiest.

 

 

 

Scream lies all you want, Hitler was Athiest in both belief and action. Athiest leaders like him have killed 100 million people, over ten times more than anyone else in the entire history of religious based violence. I have provided proof that he admits to being an Athiest, while all you can offer is his family believed in religion so he can never have his own beliefs, what a laugh you would desperately cling to that flimsy crap.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

So sheik, you believe that anyone raised in a religious family must believe everything their family believed?

 

No, I do not believe that at all.

 

 

You were raised an Athiest and that is why you believe what you do?

My past has no connection with my present belief

 

If I steal a cop uniform and put it on does that make me a cop in reality?

 

No, but if you join the police then you become a cop. You will stay a cop until you die, retire or leave the group, whichever comes soonest.

 

You my friend are playing stupid,

 

No. And feel free to tire of the s word some time soon.It's becoming tiresome

 

you know damn well that Hitler was an Athiest

 

Hitler was no Atheist, he was a Christian.

 

I even posted his own words saying religion needed to be removed and he believed in evolution but you run around with your hands over your ears so you don't have to acknoledge the truth.

 

I does not matter what he said. What matters is that he was a member of the Christian church and chose never to leave.

 

 

 

Just because Hitler was raised under a certain belief structure, that does not mean he believed in what his family believed, If you are too stulid to undersatand that we each have our own beliefs reguardless of what our parents believe, I cannot help you but it does explain how you can be an Athiest.

 

See above. According to your viewpoint, should the President no longer believe in what his father believed, then he would cease to be the President ! Nonsense, the President would remain the President until he died, or his term expired, or he officially and publicly left his position as President. So too with Adolf.

 

Scream lies all you want, Hitler was Athiest in both belief and action.

 

 

see above

 

Athiest leaders like him have killed 100 million people,

So you keep saying, once again you are being untruthful. You know you are. Who were these Atheist groups ?

 

over ten times more than anyone else in the entire history of religious based violence. I have provided proof that he admits to being an Athiest,

 

see above

 

while all you can offer is his family believed in religion so he can never have his own beliefs, what a laugh you would desperately cling to that flimsy crap.

 

Of course he had his own ideas and beliefs, but he was still a Christian- see above. Its you that is clinging to crap. You need de-theistication, just as the nazi's needed de- nazification. You are as brainwashed and deluded as they were/are.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Sheik... You are wrong. He was not a Christian. He may have started as a Christian, but he changed that.

 

Think of it like this. You have a job, you walk out of said job without telling anyone. After a week of not going back, you pretty much know, you don't have a job there anymore, you're not employed there anylonger. You are not a part of that organization. Hitler as a Christian did basically the same thing. He walked out and left the religion. He was no longer a part of it. Even though he never "Formally renounced" his membership.

[snafu]

Come on off course Hitler was an atheist. What other group of people would want to wipe out all the Jews? Oh yeah Muslims. Never mind.

[timesjoke]

My past has no connection with my present belief

 

But you are claiming that Hitler was a Christian based only on his past.

 

Either the past is relivant or it is not relivant.

 

 

That is why I discussed how you were raised. If you were raised something other than an Athiest but became an Athiest later, why can't you accept the truth that Hitler did the exact same thing?

 

If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then it is a duck, even if there is an idiot swearing up and down it is a turtle.

 

Hitler was an Athiest in Deed and beliefs, that is reality. Athiest leaders have killed over 100 million people, facts are facts, even if they cause you discomfort.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

But you are claiming that Hitler was a Christian based only on his past.

 

I am claiming that Hitler was a Christian, because he was baptised - an initiation rite. This is how we join groups such as this. The rite is inherently meaningful. As such it must be renounced for his apostasy to be accepted by all.

 

At his baptism, I do not consider he had much choice in the matter. He was at the time a babe in arms. However, join he did. As far as I am aware he never left the church, and so, remained a Christian until the day he died.

Either the past is relivant or it is not relivant.

Not sure where you are going with this, but yes I suppose so. Our past as well as our present and future are relevant to us.

 

 

That is why I discussed how you were raised. If you were raised something other than an Athiest but became an Athiest later, why can't you accept the truth that Hitler did the exact same thing?

I understand what you are saying. However, though I call myself an Atheist, I am actually a theist. This is so, as, like Hitler, I have never renounced this tosh that was forced upon me as an infant.

 

I am uncertain how to do it. I think I should perhaps do as the folks at Heartland are doing- a video of myself denying all the sky-faeries. That would be public and a true expression of my beliefs. I will do it soon. I think that would be best. I no longer wish to be associated by implication/association with theists after all the evil they have done in the world.

 

If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then it is a duck, even if there is an idiot swearing up and down it is a turtle.

 

Hitler was an Athiest in Deed and beliefs, that is reality. Athiest leaders have killed over 100 million people, facts are facts, even if they cause you discomfort.

 

With hindsight I agree that Hitler was an Atheist in belief, but not that he was one by deed. You seek here to remove this despicable criminal from your Christian ranks. And deposit him in ours. This is something that can never be. In actual fact, he was a Christian, for the reasons I have given several times already.

 

I am still waiting for you to expand on your claim that Atheists killed 100 million people. This is more theist nonsense.An attempt to draw attention away from your own dreadful history, and blame others with it. Despicable.

[RegisteredAndEducated]

Shiek... you ignored my post...

[snafu]

With hindsight I agree that Hitler was an Atheist in belief, but not that he was one by deed. You seek here to remove this despicable criminal from your Christian ranks. And deposit him in ours. This is something that can never be. In actual fact, he was a Christian, for the reasons I have given several times already.....

 

What in the hell are you talking about? If you believe he was an atheist why wasn't he one by deed? That makes no sense at all. There is no actual fact that he was either or. But he wasn't acting apon a religion when he was comminting genocide. He's the closet thing to the anti-christ there ever was.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

Sheik... You are wrong. He was not a Christian. He may have started as a Christian, but he changed that.

 

Think of it like this. You have a job, you walk out of said job without telling anyone. After a week of not going back, you pretty much know, you don't have a job there anymore, you're not employed there anylonger. You are not a part of that organization. Hitler as a Christian did basically the same thing. He walked out and left the religion. He was no longer a part of it. Even though he never "Formally renounced" his membership.

 

I would have said that leaving your job was not comparable to leaving your religion.

 

One is simply a means to earn enough to get by. But religion is something people make oaths and vows about. Some die in defence of it, others, rather than denounce or leave it.

 

Must dash. I'm off to damn my imaginary soul to eternal suffering in imaginary hell.

[timesjoke]

With hindsight I agree that Hitler was an Atheist in belief, but not that he was one by deed.

 

Our actions are our deeds, other wise known as actions speak louder than words.

 

Hitler desired the complete removal of all religion and believed in evolution, that is Athiest in actions and deeds.

 

So, his murder of millions of people were the actions of an Athiest because he was an Athiest at the time he did them, as you have already admitted.

 

 

 

You seek here to remove this despicable criminal from your Christian ranks. And deposit him in ours. This is something that can never be. In actual fact, he was a Christian, for the reasons I have given several times already.

 

No, it is you who want to hide fromt he truth, not me. You just admited he was an Athiest, that means all his deeds were as an Athiest, you can't worm your way out of this one.

 

 

Hitler stepped away from his religious family and never was involved with the church as an adult, he was never a Christian in any way.

 

Being a Christian is more then being baptised or even standing in a church, it is a belief structure, it is morals and good deeds, Hitler never shared in a Christian belief structure or any other Christian action, he was never a Christian.

 

That is why I have attempted to give you examples of a false face, to tell you just because someone is wearing a certain disguise, that does not mean he is what he pretends to be. But obviously, that concept is beyond your understanding.

 

I am still waiting for you to expand on your claim that Atheists killed 100 million people. This is more theist nonsense.An attempt to draw attention away from your own dreadful history, and blame others with it. Despicable.

 

I have laready posted it, please try reading the entire thread, it helps.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

What in the hell are you talking about? If you believe he was an atheist why wasn't he one by deed? That makes no sense at all. There is no actual fact that he was either or. But he wasn't acting apon a religion when he was comminting genocide. He's the closet thing to the anti-christ there ever was.

 

It makes sense to me.

 

He was an Atheist by belief, because he came to believe that there was no god.

 

But I do not believe he was an Atheist by deed. Were I to agree with this then TJ would say that Hitlers deeds then, must have been the deeds of an Atheist.

 

I disagree. Hitler was actually a Roman Catholic. His deeds then, were the deeds of a Christian, much like Martin Luther, Pinochet, Vlad the Impaler, Richard the Lionheart,Charlemaine, all British Monarchs for centuries, and all the other murderous Christians that have ever been, the list of which would be too long to compile here.

[snafu]

Am I the only one that has Google?

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=501208

 

 

 

http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm

 

I think it was propaganda that he proclaimed his religious beliefs. He’s trying to stir the German people to follow him.

 

Just as the Jew could once incite the mob of Jerusalem against Christ, so today he must succeed in inciting folk who have been duped into madness to attack those who, God's truth! seek to deal with this people in utter honesty and sincerity.

-Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 28 July 1922

He's trying to insight hate.

[timesjoke]

It makes sense to me.

 

He was an Atheist by belief, because he came to believe that there was no god.

 

So he was an Athiest, and that means everything he did was as an Athiest, including the deaths of millions of people.

 

Case closed.

[Guest sheik-yerbouti]

So he was an Athiest, and that means everything he did was as an Athiest, including the deaths of millions of people.

 

Case closed.

 

 

No. the case is not closed. Who do you think you are? Judge and jury.

 

Hitler was a Christian. I have explained elsewhere why this must be so. The deaths you mention though are certainly attributable to Hitler - a lifelong Christian.

[timesjoke]

No. the case is not closed. Who do you think you are? Judge and jury.

 

Hitler was a Christian. I have explained elsewhere why this must be so. The deaths you mention though are certainly attributable to Hitler - a lifelong Christian.

 

You have proven nothing.

 

I have proved he admitted to hating all religion, he believed in evolution, and you even admitted he was an Athiest, that means everything he did was done as an Athiest.

 

 

Hitler was never a Christian, his family was, be he was not.

 

You already admitted he was an Athiest, so you now trying to say he was a Christian is simply stupidity in action, you can't have it both ways.