Schools giving out the "pill"?

[timesjoke]

PORTLAND, Maine ? Pupils at a city middle school will be able to get birth control pills and patches at their student health center after the local school board approved the proposal Wednesday evening.

 

The plan, offered by city health officials, makes King Middle School the first middle school in Maine to make a full range of contraception available to students in grades 6 through 8, according to the state Department of Health and Human Services.

 

There are no national figures on how many middle schools, where most students range in age from 11 to 13, provide such services.

 

"It's very rare that middle schools do this," said Divya Mohan, a spokeswoman for the National Assembly on School-Based Health Care.

 

The Portland School Committee voted 5-2 for the measure.

 

Entire story:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303058,00.html

 

So now we are giving 6th graders birth control pills, what is next?

 

 

There is a reason adults get charged with rape when they have sex with children, those same reasons should be reasons to not supply them with more excuses to be sexualy active.

 

The "pill" does not protect the child against disease and giving immature children the "pill" will cause them to have a false sence of security and become vulnerable to these diseases.

 

Bad idea in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

But, as we get more and more people have children but not being true parents, I guess the Government must step in to fill the gap, so maybe this kind of thing is just a fact of modern life.

[snafu]

Entire story:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303058,00.html

 

So now we are giving 6th graders birth control pills, what is next?

 

 

There is a reason adults get charged with rape when they have sex with children, those same reasons should be reasons to not supply them with more excuses to be sexualy active.

 

The "pill" does not protect the child against disease and giving immature children the "pill" will cause them to have a false sence of security and become vulnerable to these diseases.

 

Bad idea in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

But, as we get more and more people have children but not being true parents, I guess the Government must step in to fill the gap, so maybe this kind of thing is just a fact of modern life.

 

And you can't even give them an aspirin. Just blows me away.

[Old Salt]

Heck, maybe we should make birth control mandatory for both male and female from when they're first able to procreate until the age of 21.

[jokersarewild]

If sex education programs were good, they could be taught about condoms and such to help prevent the spreading of diseases. Wow...bright idea.

[eddo]

If sex education programs were good, they could be taught about condoms and such to help prevent the spreading of diseases. Wow...bright idea.

 

If sex educations was really good thy could be taught that abstinence is 100% effective for preventing pregnancy and STD's.

Of course, if Parents would stop using schools as babysitters and actually begin to parent their children again, it wouldn't be necessary for schools to get involved in something so personal and intimate...

[wez]

If sex educations was really good thy could be taught that abstinence is 100% effective for preventing pregnancy and STD's.

Of course, if Parents would stop using schools as babysitters and actually begin to parent their children again, it wouldn't be necessary for schools to get involved in something so personal and intimate...

 

 

Problem is, natural hormones and genitals don't abide to societies rules. I became sexually active at 16 and do not think I was too young. My girlfriend was 16 and we'd been together a year.. perfectly natural. Too young for a kid? Sure, according to societies rules.. Disease? Two virgins? Whatever..

 

How about we remove the genitals at birth and use drugs to supress hormones to keep unwary young people away from the evil that is sex... I can catch disease from eating food.. where's the outcry for abstinence and a free condom for my steak? I don't want mad cow disease..

 

If you don't wanna have sex, don't. Sure, young people are immature and make mistakes.. that's how we learn. I'm glad the school helps however they can since most parents are either indifferent or rigid on the issue instead of actually talking to their kids like a human being and teaching them how to be smart about making choices and how to protect themselves.

 

Besides, I'm sure kids understand if they don't have sex, they can't get pregnant and catch sexually transmitted disease. You're not talking about sex education there.. you're talking about "promoting" 100% total abstinence through fear of the negative consequences.. Abstinence is not sex.. so how can it be sex education?

 

 

By the cold and religious we were taken in hand. Shown how to feel good, and told, to feel bad. ~ Roger Waters

[eddo]

Besides, I'm sure kids understand if they don't have sex, they can't get pregnant and catch sexually transmitted disease.

Know it? Yes, I would agree most kids know that. Understand it? I don't think so. Anyone who has a teenager or works with them knows that the majority of teenagers have an invincibility complex- the good ole "It won't happen to me" mindset. That can be extremely dangerous wen mixed with sex (among other things- driving comes to mind.) Unfortunately, parents shy away from discussing sex more than anything else so kids are left to learn on their own. Parents will teach their kids the dangers of driving, but completely disregard sex because it is "uncomfortable" to talk about.

 

You're not talking about sex education there.. you're talking about "promoting" 100% total abstinence through fear of the negative consequences.. Abstinence is not sex.. so how can it be sex education?

Where did I say that wez? Have you been to a sex education class lately? They teach you about the pill, the patch, how to properly install a condom- but many barely mention abstinence. Teenagers should absolutely be aware of the consequences if they have sex, and they should absolutely be aware that abstinence is the only truly effective way to guarantee that you won't have to deal with any of those consequences. If that means scaring them- now that you mention it- I am ok with that. Not because I think "Sex is the debil!" but because anyone engaging in sex needs to understand what they are getting into BEFORE they get into it.

 

Abstinence is not sex.. so how can it be sex education?

The choice to remain abstinent is absolutely a sexual decision (and a birth control option at that,) and thus should be covered in sex ed.

[wez]

What's there to teach about abstinence? You can't get pregnant or sexually transmitted diseases if you don't have sex kids. The end.

 

Life is hazardous to your health... death is a certainty, toss your hat in the ring and live it anyways ~ wez

 

"anyone engaging in sex needs to understand what they are getting into BEFORE they get into it."

 

I agree with that eddo, if you change the word "sex" to religion.... I'm all for scare tactics to acheive 100% abstinence too...

[snafu]

... Anyone who has a teenager or works with them knows that the majority of teenagers have an invincibility complex- the good ole "It won't happen to me" mindset. That can be extremely dangerous wen mixed with sex (among other things- driving comes to mind.) Unfortunately, parents shy away from discussing sex more than anything else so kids are left to learn on their own. Parents will teach their kids the dangers of driving, but completely disregard sex because it is "uncomfortable" to talk about......

 

 

 

The choice to remain abstinent is absolutely a sexual decision (and a birth control option at that,) and thus should be covered in sex ed.

 

 

I totally agree. We were all teenagers at one point and I can remember feeling invincible. Not only in sex but in everything. The stunts I did in a car. Well that's for another topic. But it's not teaching them abstinence so much but convincing them that it's the only pure way from pregnancy and STD'S. And that abstinence should not be considered a taboo lifestyle. Kids wear they're sexual beavers like a badge of honor. And that's gotta change.

[manicmonday]

I'll admit to not reading all the replies. Sorry. However? Abstinence should be taught.

 

So should birth control methods. And if giving them out prevents unwanted pregnancies and abortions? Great.

 

Covering your ears and saying "I can't hear you, that doesn't change the fact that crap happens.

[jokersarewild]

Sex education 101:

 

Don't have sex until you're ready. (because is there really any other time?)

 

When you do start having sex, you can get STDs and babies. To prevent those, use a condom. Combine that with birth control and statistically you're so unlikely to have kids that your grandmother will give birth again before you do. (explain other methods of birth control)

 

(explain babies. Maturation, what it takes to care for the little bastards, etc.)

 

----------------------

 

NEVER teach teenagers to "abstain" from sex. It's like telling them not to get a Red Rider BB gun and saying they'll "shoot yer eye out". If they're taught properly how to use the BB gun, this won't happen. But don't say "don't do this" because curiosity will take over and they'll have sex anyway. Except...they won't know about condoms and such, get pregnant, have an abortion (or contribute to the s living off of welfare), and won't have a happy life. Yay Abstainance!

[timesjoke]

Problem is, natural hormones and genitals don't abide to societies rules. I became sexually active at 16 and do not think I was too young. My girlfriend was 16 and we'd been together a year.. perfectly natural. Too young for a kid? Sure, according to societies rules.. Disease? Two virgins? Whatever..

 

So a guy or girl has never "claimed" to be virgin but really is not a virgin?

 

Please.......

 

Do you remember the discussion on this forum where a unwanted baby happened with older teens? Children do not have the mental capacity to make dicisions like this. They have the "superman" complex.

 

 

How about we remove the genitals at birth and use drugs to supress hormones to keep unwary young people away from the evil that is sex... I can catch disease from eating food.. where's the outcry for abstinence and a free condom for my steak? I don't want mad cow disease..

 

Taking any arguement to extremes does not help.

 

We are talking about little girls here, this is a serious issue.

 

If you don't wanna have sex, don't. Sure, young people are immature and make mistakes.. that's how we learn. I'm glad the school helps however they can since most parents are either indifferent or rigid on the issue instead of actually talking to their kids like a human being and teaching them how to be smart about making choices and how to protect themselves.

 

I agree most of it is from the parents but it is because they are lazy, made lazy by a system doing their work for them.

 

This is more then an immature issue with no penalties for mistakes. Here lives are involved, maybe the life of a kid that got a disease or a new life in the form of an unwanted baby. Children having sex will end up with society footing the bill for their immature decision more often than not.

 

 

Besides, I'm sure kids understand if they don't have sex, they can't get pregnant and catch sexually transmitted disease. You're not talking about sex education there.. you're talking about "promoting" 100% total abstinence through fear of the negative consequences.. Abstinence is not sex.. so how can it be sex education?

 

We teach people that they should wear seatbelts by using the fear of negative consequences all the time, we do this in many ways. We set a time for our kids to come home and there is a penalty for not making it on time.

 

Setting rules with clear penalties is a very well established method of helping to control behavoirs in society. It is when the rules are soft or nonexistant that kids and adults become out of control.

 

 

 

By the cold and religious we were taken in hand. Shown how to feel good, and told, to feel bad. ~ Roger Waters

 

?Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.? ~ Seneca

 

 

 

There is nothign wrong with teaching Children or even adults to exert a little self control. If they can learn to see past hormonal impulses, they can be on their way to true adulthood, instead of acting like wild cattle in a field, rutting without thought.

 

 

Yes, there are real religious issues connected with sex but there are real world reasons to not have sex at such a young age. If all you can see is the religious reasons, you are missing many points indeed.

[wez]

Good points TJ.. But this is really about NOT withholding contraceptives or information from kids and giving them abstainence as the only option because kids will have sex regardless. Just because the school provides the service, does that mean the school doesn't teach abstainence as some here imply? Seems to me that's the only "choice" many people want kids to have.. Not real smart.

[timesjoke]

Good points TJ.. But this is really about NOT withholding contraceptives or information from kids and giving them abstainence as the only option because kids will have sex regardless. Just because the school provides the service, does that mean the school doesn't teach abstainence as some here imply? Seems to me that's the only "choice" many people want kids to have.. Not real smart.

 

 

Actually I am a school volunteer and there is almost no discussion about abstainence in the school program.

 

If even the school assumes all the kids are having sex, does that not rub off on the students? Attitide is infectious.

 

 

We do not need to write off kids and say they will all just do it, we can set standards, my parents set standards and I followed those standards, to this day I still open doors for women and help them with their chair at a restaurant, I get funny looks sometimes to be sure but I see nothign wrong with raising kids to have high standards.

 

 

What is it with modern people, they all assume failure like failure is all they have ever known?

[wez]

Actually I am a school volunteer and there is almost no discussion about abstainence in the school program.

 

If even the school assumes all the kids are having sex, does that not rub off on the students? Attitide is infectious.

 

 

We do not need to write off kids and say they will all just do it, we can set standards, my parents set standards and I followed those standards, to this day I still open doors for women and help them with their chair at a restaurant, I get funny looks sometimes to be sure but I see nothign wrong with raising kids to have high standards.

 

 

What is it with modern people, they all assume failure like failure is all they have ever known?

 

I don't think it's really wise to put standards on children that adults are not willing to live up to themselves. Nothing pissed me off worse as a kid than a stinkin' hypocrite. Matter of fact, nothing still pisses me off worse.. Take a look around our society, kids learn by example, not talk. I don't really see kids having sex as a failure. I see kids having sex as doing what they're "told", by what they see.

 

Perhaps our society and way of life is a failure.. perhaps "role models" for young girls like Paris Hilton shouldn't be given so much air time.. Perhaps we should put life before money and stop using sex to sell everything from cars to clothes.. Kids will adapt and grow to fit the society we present to them.. Seems to me they're right on track and will fit in wonderfully as adults..Kids mirror adults, period. Don't like what you see? Don't try to change the kids...

[timesjoke]

I don't think it's really wise to put standards on children that adults are not willing to live up to themselves. Nothing pissed me off worse as a kid than a stinkin' hypocrite. Matter of fact, nothing still pisses me off worse.. Take a look around our society, kids learn by example, not talk. I don't really see kids having sex as a failure. I see kids having sex as doing what they're "told", by what they see.

 

Do what I say, not as I do.

 

I heard that so many times as I was growing up and yes, I did resent it to a certain degree but I was always clear on the standards that were set for my behavoir and I knew that if I should fail to meet those standards, I would pay the price.

 

What I cam to understand later in life was that a man must earn his way through this life, nobody gives you something you did not earn without a terrible price. Taking welfare for example removes your dignity.

 

To be honest, you sound like you are still very young, not yet mature no matter what your true age is. Who ever told you that you did not have to earn the right to act in certain ways?

 

Example:

 

Adults drive every day and even though it looks simple, there is a huge price to pay in both learning the rules and abilities of driving and the upkeep that goes with it. A person does not just get a free car with free gas, free insurance and just know all the rules and requirements without working for it.

 

Just because adults drive, that does not mean children should do it. We must earn the right to drive.

 

Sex is something even more dangerious than driving a car. The result of one sexual encounter could mean everything from a minor STD to death or even the creation of a new life that needs to be taken care of when the child making that life cannot even take care of themselves.

 

 

It is not being a hypocrite to ask for children and even adults to know what they are doing before they do it. But, it is childish to do things you are not prepared for just because you see an adult do it.

 

Perhaps our society and way of life is a failure.. perhaps "role models" for young girls like Paris Hilton shouldn't be given so much air time.. Perhaps we should put life before money and stop using sex to sell everything from cars to clothes.. Kids will adapt and grow to fit the society we present to them.. Seems to me they're right on track and will fit in wonderfully as adults..Kids mirror adults, period. Don't like what you see? Don't try to change the kids...

 

I agree on the Paris comment, for some reason our youth looks to these losers for their inspiration when there are so many other great people to emulate.

 

Yes, I do believe the younger generation is showing true failure on a wide scale. The general theme seems to be "It's not my fault I was borne so give me everything I want without me having to earn it".

 

 

There is a reason children are called children. They are not adults and do not have an adults ability to think things through. Before a person does something that could kill them or create another unwanted baby, they should be mature enough to make a decision of that magnatude.

 

 

Yes, I agree that it is unwanted children themselves that are now making more unwanted children all raised by the schools and the streets so maybe it should be expected to a certain degree but I ask this, just because it should be expected for these kids to keep walking down the easy path of moral decline, does that make it right?

[wez]

Yes, I do believe the younger generation is showing true failure on a wide scale. The general theme seems to be "It's not my fault I was borne so give me everything I want without me having to earn it".

Wonder where kids get that idea? Hahahahaha Yes, they are the failures...Let's get em.

 

So, do you think the message in our country is work hard, very hard for your money or rather get as much as you can any way you can get it so you don't have to work?

 

So, since kids have taken to shooting up schools cause they get bullied, and kids, by law, must attend school and it can kill them, perhaps they shouldn't attend school til they are mature enough to understand the consequences of attending a possible massacre. What do you think?

 

BTW, I'm 38.. and hope to hell I never "mature"..

[timesjoke]

So, since kids have taken to shooting up schools cause they get bullied, and kids, by law, must attend school and it can kill them, perhaps they shouldn't attend school til they are mature enough to understand the consequences of attending a possible massacre. What do you think?

 

 

First of all, the number of kids being shot at school are very tiny compared to the number attending public schools in America. Don't get me wrong, as a school volunteer I am very concerned by this issue but it is hardly to the point that you can say any child is in any real danger of being shot at school.

 

 

But, every sexual encounter can result in the spread of disease or the creation of an unwanted baby so you are trying to compare apples to oranges.

 

 

But, we have metal detectors, school security, fences, and law enforcement at every school, every day to try and deal with that possible threat. The children can see that very real example of society trying very hard to protect them and few older kids do not know about the few school shootings that have happened so obviously, they have adults involved in the lives to help them with this decision.

 

If they have this much involvement in something very unlikely to cause them harm, why not have the same involvement in their sexual decisions when they have a high chance of comming to harm from that issue?

 

 

 

Again, you keep avoiding the fact that a child should "earn" their way through life, a child is a child, not an adult and should not be acting like an adult because they don't have the knowledge, maturity, and the responsibility to handle adult situations, as the growing population of children having babies and getting STD'd clearly proves.

[wez]

First of all, the number of kids being shot at school are very tiny compared to the number attending public schools in America. Don't get me wrong, as a school volunteer I am very concerned by this issue but it is hardly to the point that you can say any child is in any real danger of being shot at school.

 

 

But, every sexual encounter can result in the spread of disease or the creation of an unwanted baby so you are trying to compare apples to oranges.

 

 

But, we have metal detectors, school security, fences, and law enforcement at every school, every day to try and deal with that possible threat. The children can see that very real example of society trying very hard to protect them and few older kids do not know about the few school shootings that have happened so obviously, they have adults involved in the lives to help them with this decision.

 

If they have this much involvement in something very unlikely to cause them harm, why not have the same involvement in their sexual decisions when they have a high chance of comming to harm from that issue?

 

 

 

Again, you keep avoiding the fact that a child should "earn" their way through life, a child is a child, not an adult and should not be acting like an adult because they don't have the knowledge, maturity, and the responsibility to handle adult situations, as the growing population of children having babies and getting STD'd clearly proves.

 

Kids wanna "earn" their way through life like Paris Hilton... can you blame them?

 

The point is, we got a lot bigger problems than kids having sex and a school providing the protection you're talking about.. Yet, the protection you don't want them to provide. What gives?

 

And apples are not oranges.. every school encounter can result in a bullet to the head from a classmate... What schools are immune? I'm sure every parent will want to send their kids there..

[timesjoke]

 

Kids wanna "earn" their way through life like Paris Hilton... can you blame them?

 

Yes, on so many levels but the most obvious is few kids have parents worth hundreds of billions of dollars, there is nothign wrong with making kids be realistic.

 

The point is, we got a lot bigger problems than kids having sex and a school providing the protection you're talking about.. Yet, the protection you don't want them to provide. What gives?

 

It is called priorities.

 

Moral decline and the inability to have selfcontrol is one of the biggest problems with society these days.

 

We should not be making these problems worse.

 

 

Besides, I never said to not give the kids birth control pills, I said the school should not be doing it and not even telling the parents.

 

 

 

 

And apples are not oranges.. every school encounter can result in a bullet to the head from a classmate... What schools are immune? I'm sure every parent will want to send their kids there..

 

Now your getting very silly. As with any risk, you must do comparisons to see how often things occur to asses the risk factor. The number of events compared to the number of school age children in America makes the likelyhood so small, it is less than a hundredth of a percent issue while child pregnancy levels have been rising every year.

 

Apples and oranges.

[eddo]

 

Besides, I never said to not give the kids birth control pills, I said the school should not be doing it and not even telling the parents.

 

That is the issue here. Not that kids are having sex, not the sex ed- but the fact that parents are more and more turning over the responsibilities of being a parent over to other people to do for them. And the schools and the Gov't just soak it up.

 

It is not the schools job to educate about sex. It is the parents.

 

It is not the schools job to educate about birth control. It is the parents.

 

It is most certainly not the job of the schools to give out birth control pills or condoms- that is the parents.

 

Why people have kids and then expect others to raise them is beyond me. You all go ahead and elect Hillary and she'll take care of your kids for you. You won't have to do anything, won't have to worry about anything, and they will grow into adults completely dependent on the Gov't to do everything for them. Cool...

[snafu]

That is the issue here. Not that kids are having sex, not the sex ed- but the fact that parents are more and more turning over the responsibilities of being a parent over to other people to do for them. And the schools and the Gov't just soak it up.

 

It is not the schools job to educate about sex. It is the parents.

 

It is not the schools job to educate about birth control. It is the parents.

 

It is most certainly not the job of the schools to give out birth control pills or condoms- that is the parents.

 

Why people have kids and then expect others to raise them is beyond me. You all go ahead and elect Hillary and she'll take care of your kids for you. You won't have to do anything, won't have to worry about anything, and they will grow into adults completely dependent on the Gov't to do everything for them. Cool...

 

 

In a perfect world that sounds great. The simple fact is we have parents that don’t get involved in there kids education. So without these kids being taught sex education and such the society as a whole losses with single parents, health care costs to you and I and aborted babies. So yes the government needs to step in. Now handing them birth control pills is a moral issue and they should not be in the business of doing that.

[wez]

Yes, on so many levels but the most obvious is few kids have parents worth hundreds of billions of dollars, there is nothign wrong with making kids be realistic.

 

 

 

It is called priorities.

 

Moral decline and the inability to have selfcontrol is one of the biggest problems with society these days.

 

We should not be making these problems worse.

 

 

Besides, I never said to not give the kids birth control pills, I said the school should not be doing it and not even telling the parents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now your getting very silly. As with any risk, you must do comparisons to see how often things occur to asses the risk factor. The number of events compared to the number of school age children in America makes the likelyhood so small, it is less than a hundredth of a percent issue while child pregnancy levels have been rising every year.

 

Apples and oranges.

 

School shootings have been rising too.. I graduated in 1987.. never saw school and shooting in the same headline back then, but girls did get pregnant at a steady clip.. apples to apples.. dust to dust

 

And it's not just the kids that get shot that are effected... every kid in America is effected and scarred by it.. Much worse than a case of a kid getting crabs.. Not national news..

[wez]

That is the issue here. Not that kids are having sex, not the sex ed- but the fact that parents are more and more turning over the responsibilities of being a parent over to other people to do for them. And the schools and the Gov't just soak it up.

 

It is not the schools job to educate about sex. It is the parents.

 

It is not the schools job to educate about birth control. It is the parents.

 

It is most certainly not the job of the schools to give out birth control pills or condoms- that is the parents.

 

Why people have kids and then expect others to raise them is beyond me. You all go ahead and elect Hillary and she'll take care of your kids for you. You won't have to do anything, won't have to worry about anything, and they will grow into adults completely dependent on the Gov't to do everything for them. Cool...

 

Most kids and their parents don't discuss these issues eddo, and if you and your church ever mention sex related issues to the young people in your congregation/youth group, I must once again point out your hypocrisy to you.. Now, does your church involve themselves in any way in these issues, eddo? If not, pardon me, if so, shut the hell up.

[eddo]

Most kids and their parents don't discuss these issues eddo,

I agree with that, but that doesn't make it right. Parents should be parenting. When I have kids I do not want the government telling me that I have to give my 11 year old daughter birth-control pills, or that I have to tell her that it is ok to have sex, as long as she is "protected" or "safe." This is not an issue that I am comfortable with a bunch of bureaucrats deciding for me and my family.

 

and if you and your church ever mention sex related issues to the young people in your congregation/youth group, I must once again point out your hypocrisy to you.. Now, does your church involve themselves in any way in these issues, eddo? If not, pardon me, if so, shut the hell up.

 

oh, this oughtta be good...

 

 

Wez, how would it be hypocritical for me to tell kids to wait til marriage to have sex when that is exactly what I am doing?

 

and I would like to point out that it is you that keeps trying to make this about religion, not me.